This is not fair

[ioan]

Mark Webber has been reprimanded by the Belgian Grand Prix stewards after impeding a rival during qualifying at Spa.

The stewards deemed the Red Bull driver had blocked a rival during the first qualifying segment, but the Australian has escaped a grid penalty and got just a reprimand.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78130

I don't effin' care where he is placed in the WDC, he should be handled as everyone else and get the required grid demotion.
What a friggin joke F1 is.
Fissi's pole position was awesome for the sport and now they manage to destroy everything again with such political moves.

[Sonic]

Agreed. It should not be a case of one rule for some and another for everyone else.

[SGWilko]

Agreed. It should not be a case of one rule for some and another for everyone else.

Especially given the farcical precedent set by the Stewards against Alonso in Monza....

[christophulus]

Ridiculous, if he blocked, he blocked. Can't see why he's avoided a penalty.

S.O.P. is a five place demotion which would have put him 14th.. right alongside Button.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Formula Farce is just as stupid as ever! webber vs button in mid grid would have been interesting, but no.....

Once again, the FIA stands for Red Bull International Assistance!!!!

It is obvious since the day he was born that Mark Webber was the FIA's favourite driver!!!!

Red Bull would never have a decision go against them....even the penalty he got at the Nurburgring was only given because the FIA wanted to trick the world into thinking it wasn't in the pocket of Red Bull!!!!!!!

[UltimateDanGTR]

Once again, the FIA stands for Red Bull International Assistance!!!!

It is obvious since the day he was born that Mark Webber was the FIA's favourite driver!!!!

Red Bull would never have a decision go against them....even the penalty he got at the Nurburgring was only given because the FIA wanted to trick the world into thinking it wasn't in the pocket of Red Bull!!!!!!!

well someone had to take over from ferrari ;)

seems like they are trying to keep the championship as close as possible, thus no penalty, they did this last year, hence why they penalised hamilton ;)

[truefan72]

for once I agree with ioan. It should be a grid place penalty like every other case! not fair indeed

[WSRfan82]

whats the point of having rules if stewards not going to follow them. its a joke.

the rules apply to all but we must make sure RedBull and Webber will get away scot free :-( don't know why i bother

[ioan]

Once again, the FIA stands for Red Bull International Assistance!!!!

It is obvious since the day he was born that Mark Webber was the FIA's favourite driver!!!!

Red Bull would never have a decision go against them....even the penalty he got at the Nurburgring was only given because the FIA wanted to trick the world into thinking it wasn't in the pocket of Red Bull!!!!!!!

:D ;)

[ioan]

Why is that no team protests?
Where's Williams when we need them to stand up for teh rules and for their own interest (Rosberg qualified 10th just behind Webber)?!

[CaptainRaiden]

Wasn't it Webber who was crying about being blocked in one of the qualifying sessions this year? I remember him whining about it after he failed to make it to Q2 or Q3 or something.

[ioan]

Wasn't it Webber who was crying about being blocked in one of the qualifying sessions this year? I remember him whining about it after he failed to make it to Q2 or Q3 or something.

Yep, it was him in Bahrain I think.

[BDunnell]

I don't effin' care where he is placed in the WDC, he should be handled as everyone else and get the required grid demotion.

Or no-one should ever be penalised for such offences, unless it can be proved to have been done deliberately. F1 managed fine for years without penalties being dished out left, right and centre. Unfortunately, people get blocked on track. It's not fair, but sport isn't always. Everyone should just get on with it.

[CaptainRaiden]

Well, since he is the "Director" of the GPDA, maybe he should set a precedent by standing up and demanding a five place grid penalty. But well, who am I kidding? The chances of that happening are as slim as Badoer winning the remaining 5 races. :eek:

[Sonic]

Or no-one should ever be penalised for such offences, unless it can be proved to have been done deliberately. F1 managed fine for years without penalties being dished out left, right and centre. Unfortunately, people get blocked on track. It's not fair, but sport isn't always. Everyone should just get on with it.

Totally agree!

[I am evil Homer]

If it was Hamilton and he was leading thw WDC he would be. 100% guaranteed :D

Once again a dumb decision...a block is a block.

[ioan]

Or no-one should ever be penalised for such offences, unless it can be proved to have been done deliberately. F1 managed fine for years without penalties being dished out left, right and centre. Unfortunately, people get blocked on track. It's not fair, but sport isn't always. Everyone should just get on with it.

I don't exactly agree with you.

With the qualifying format that we have now one get's 2 shots to get through to the next phase.
What if someone who already posted his fast lap and is going back to the pits will slightly hinder a driver who can endanger his position?

There has to be something to make sure that such things don't happen and having a rule and a penalty for this case is the right thing, when enforced or when Bernie doesn't override the rules that is.

[BDunnell]

I don't exactly agree with you.

With the qualifying format that we have now one get's 2 shots to get through to the next phase.
What if someone who already posted his fast lap and is going back to the pits will slightly hinder a driver who can endanger his position?

There has to be something to make sure that such things don't happen and having a rule and a penalty for this case is the right thing, when enforced or when Bernie doesn't override the rules that is.

I understand your point of view entirely, but even so I don't think penalties are necessary. It may have been with the old system that a driver only had two 'shots' at it, because of problems, weather or whatever. And it must be said that blocking, whether in races or qualifying, is now an extremely rare occurrence compared with 20 or so years ago.

[ioan]

I understand your point of view entirely, but even so I don't think penalties are necessary. It may have been with the old system that a driver only had two 'shots' at it, because of problems, weather or whatever. And it must be said that blocking, whether in races or qualifying, is now an extremely rare occurrence compared with 20 or so years ago.

Qualifying allowed for 12 laps, at least 4 of them at speed before, now it isn't the same anymore and a bit of evil will and one can destroy all the chances of a competitor to even get into the top 15 no matter how good he is or not.

Reprimand as for kids and even they realize after the first occurrence that it's a useless way of disapproval.

The grid penalty is a fair option IMO for such cases.

[BDunnell]

Qualifying allowed for 12 laps, at least 4 of them at speed before, now it isn't the same anymore and a bit of evil will and one can destroy all the chances of a competitor to even get into the top 15 no matter how good he is or not.

So what? It's bad luck. And it's very, very rarely — if ever — down to 'evil will'.

[ioan]

So what? It's bad luck. And it's very, very rarely — if ever — down to 'evil will'.

We are talking about F1 here, about people who will push the boundaries of the rules as far as they can without getting punished, and if there is no punishment than there will be no boundaries either.

Hoping that they are fair it's all nice and rosy but what if at a critical moment one decides not to play the nice guy anymore? You'll have a championship decided by someone who had a wild idea at the wrong moment and I bet we wouldn't be happy at all.

Just imagine that before the last race Rubens and Jenson are at a point where the one who wins the race will win the championship, who is to guarantee that they will not hinder the other from getting into Q2 or Q3 if they have the chance?

Do we want to have again the days when Senna said he will take out Prost if he overtakes him at the start? Was it bad luck when Senna rammed Prost after making it clear that he will do it if given the chance? Was it normal that such a premeditated and publicly announced move was not punished?!

[BDunnell]

We are talking about F1 here, about people who will push the boundaries of the rules as far as they can without getting punished, and if there is no punishment than there will be no boundaries either.

Hoping that they are fair it's all nice and rosy but what if at a critical moment one decides not to play the nice guy anymore? You'll have a championship decided by someone who had a wild idea at the wrong moment and I bet we wouldn't be happy at all.

Just imagine that before the last race Rubens and Jenson are at a point where the one who wins the race will win the championship, who is to guarantee that they will not hinder the other from getting into Q2 or Q3 if they have the chance?

Do we want to have again the days when Senna said he will take out Prost if he overtakes him at the start? Was it bad luck when Senna rammed Prost after making it clear that he will do it if given the chance? Was it normal that such a premeditated and publicly announced move was not punished?!

All totally irrelevant to the basic matter of someone blocking someone during qualifying, which has gone on ever since F1 began and always will go on. There is no need to impose unnecessary penalties of the type we see being imposed time and time again nowadays. I can think of only one obviously malicious move being pulled by a driver during a qualifying session.

[CNR]

Q: who was it he blocked
Q:why is it just the one crap site that has this (www.autosport.com (http://www.autosport.com))
http://news.google.com.au/news/search?um=1&ned=au&hl=en&q=Webber+reprimanded+for+impeding&cf=all&scoring=n

[ioan]

Q: who was it he blocked

Makes no difference to the fact he blocked someone, the rules are the same with no discrimination.

[BDunnell]

ioan, did you see the incident in question?

[ioan]

ioan, did you see the incident in question?

No, did you? Maybe you get to see all the 20 cars in teh same time in the UK, I don't get it here.
What's important is that someone was impeded and complained and the stewards found that he did impede someone's qualifying effort and was found guilty for it.
The worst part is that while others get a 5 place grid demotion he got a reprimand, like if that is a punishment! :rolleyes:

[CNR]

Makes no difference to the fact he blocked someone, the rules are the same with no discrimination.

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel09_document_23.pdf

this is a case of no driver complaining about him blcking them

[ioan]

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel09_document_23.pdf

this is a case of no driver complaining about him blcking them

What part of rules are the same for everyone, and should be applied in consequence of that, you guys don't get?!
What about the judge deciding to give a reprimand to every 10th criminal in teh real world?! :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

I understand your point of view entirely, but even so I don't think penalties are necessary. It may have been with the old system that a driver only had two 'shots' at it, because of problems, weather or whatever. And it must be said that blocking, whether in races or qualifying, is now an extremely rare occurrence compared with 20 or so years ago.OK I've read all post down to the one I’m quoting and I feel compelled to make a comment. If F1 had logical qualifying rules like for instance letting one car go out on a quali. run while the next one is Q'ed up at the pit exit waiting say 20 seconds for an indicator light to flash green. If they had this 20 second interval for every quali segment only a spin or a shunt would impede a racer. All cars must complete their run as expeditiously as is safe. Any and all cheaters would stick out like a sore thumb! But that’s not as exciting as having every car on the track at the same time with two minutes left in the session. That doesn't sell as much advertising, and that is why F1 like almost every other sport is becoming less and less equitable in terms of the importance of getting the fair outcome. F1 is probably the worst in this arena, and I call shenanigans on F1 as a sport in its current manifestation.
Sucks Man! :down:

[AJP]

Who here has seen footage of what happened???

I'm not going to be the Judge, Jury and Executioner until I see what happened with my own eyes, unlike some!

[gloomyDAY]

ioan, did you see the incident in question?


No. :laugh:

How can you make a call on something you haven't even seen? You always spew hatred up and down these threads about other members being ignorant and oblivious. You didn't even see the alleged infraction and are screaming bloody murder. Tool!

You should take your Midol because ever since Red Bull (and Williams) denied your beloved Ferrari the chance to gain more testing time during the season you've been irascible over Red Bull's action.

I'm glad stewards haven't been sticking their nose in the majority of the season.

[speeddurango]

I would like to know in what circumstances and which car did Webber block? F1 has always been rather flexible anyway. Well I don't particularly like it, but if it was only a minor rule offense with no serious consequence, then it's no biggie from my point of view.

[ioan]

:laugh:

How can you make a call on something you haven't even seen?

Stewards saw it, so I don't know what your problem is. Or did you see each and every crime on Earth and you agree with them or you think none of them happened just because you didn't see them? :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

I would like to know in what circumstances and which car did Webber block? F1 has always been rather flexible anyway. Well I don't particularly like it, but if it was only a minor rule offense with no serious consequence, then it's no biggie from my point of view.

I agree.

[F1boat]

I agree with ioan and keep my fingers crossed for Brawn GP! Boo, RBR, lol ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Once again, the FIA stands for Red Bull International Assistance!!!!



I think you'd better start all over again with your A,B, C's. You've been overdosing on that Red Bull goop again. :eek:

[Valve Bounce]

Stewards saw it, so I don't know what your problem is. Or did you see each and every crime on Earth and you agree with them or you think none of them happened just because you didn't see them? :rolleyes:

Read your sig, for God's sake!! Read your sig!!

[ioan]

Have to love how the people from down under are overreacting! :laugh:

[Robinho]

the only way that i can see that he maybe could escape the penalty, is if the car he hindered still made it through that session, and that Mark's second lap was fast enough for him to get through - then they could have taken his fastest time from that session, and the other car actually received no disadvantage.

sounds to me like it was a case of possible blocking, that perhaps could not be proved to have made a difference to the result and also that no-one complained to the stewards about - hence the reprimand rather than penalty.

it des appear to be muddying the waters by bring a driver in to get knickles rapped for something that others have received penalties for - there ought to be a distinction between incidents, but without some transparency frrom the FIA on what was done, for what reasons, we've got no chance of knowing why he was treated differently

[Sonic]

We are talking about F1 here, about people who will push the boundaries of the rules as far as they can without getting punished, and if there is no punishment than there will be no boundaries either.

Hoping that they are fair it's all nice and rosy but what if at a critical moment one decides not to play the nice guy anymore? You'll have a championship decided by someone who had a wild idea at the wrong moment and I bet we wouldn't be happy at all.

I seem to recall a certain German driver (who I believe you were quite fond of) doing some of that during his career and get away with it. ;)

Seriously thought. IMO the problem is because there is no way to tell the different between a deliberate block and an accidental one the stewards have become a little too penalty happy in recent years. In short I agree with you Ioan; every infraction of the rules should be punnished equally, however one of the biggest skills of a racing driver is to find some space on a lap and if they can't that should not immediately require a punishment to be handed out to another driver.

[Valve Bounce]

the only way that i can see that he maybe could escape the penalty, is if the car he hindered still made it through that session, and that Mark's second lap was fast enough for him to get through - then they could have taken his fastest time from that session, and the other car actually received no disadvantage.

sounds to me like it was a case of possible blocking, that perhaps could not be proved to have made a difference to the result and also that no-one complained to the stewards about - hence the reprimand rather than penalty.

it des appear to be muddying the waters by bring a driver in to get knickles rapped for something that others have received penalties for - there ought to be a distinction between incidents, but without some transparency frrom the FIA on what was done, for what reasons, we've got no chance of knowing why he was treated differently

You've been watching 'Allo 'Allo havn't you. :p :

[ioan]

I seem to recall a certain German driver (who I believe you were quite fond of) doing some of that during his career and get away with it. ;)

When he got away with it it was because there were no rules in place.
He also got punished for some of his moves.

[Dave B]

ioan, did you see the incident in question?


No, did you?

Then, like me, call for the FIA to make good on their pledge to publish evidence on their website rather than commenting on an incident where you don't know all the facts.

[ClarkFan]

I think the ultimate judgement on Kimi's move is that no other teams are protesting. At leaset two teams have plenty of incentive to see him demoted. Force India could have their first win and Red Bull could pick up 2 points on Brawn if Kimi received even a 10 second penalty for driving around the outside at La Source. But no protests filed. Either both these teams are co-conspirators to promote Kimi and Ferrari, or what he did is not viewed as an offsense that could be penalized.

ClarkFan