Quick Nick. Quick again?

[Sonic]

Funny how being out of a job has suddenly pushed him ahead of his team mate.

[F1boat]

I think that Nick has a great chance of scoring his first win tomorrow.

[jimakos]

I think that Nick has a great chance of scoring his first win tomorrow.

I really don't believe that!
He made an excellent performance today but the race is another thing.
I would bet that Nick won't win Spa :p

[Ranger]

Funny how being out of a job has suddenly pushed him ahead of his team mate.

He's been quicker than Kubica equal or most of the time this year.

It just took a P3 in qualifying for people to finally realise it.

[gloomyDAY]

This is just a warm-up for that McLaren seat.

Holy cow! Still trying to wrap my head around qualifying.

[ioan]

He's always been quick, as quick as the car allowed for and he's the most consistent driver on the grid.
He hadn't binned a car in a race for several seasons now (I don't even remember for how long already).

If I had a team he'd be on my shopping list.

[wedge]

Funny how being out of a job has suddenly pushed him ahead of his team mate.

First impressions are meaningless without published fuel loads.

[wedge]

He's always been quick, as quick as the car allowed for and he's the most consistent driver on the grid.
He hadn't binned a car in a race for several seasons now (I don't even remember for how long already).

Quick enough for Kubica moaning about BMW wasting resources helping 'Quick Nick' because he wasn't quick enough to keep up with Kubica and compromising Kubica's WDC hopes last year?

[ioan]

Quick enough for Kubica moaning about BMW wasting resources helping 'Quick Nick' because he wasn't quick enough to keep up with Kubica and compromising Kubica's WDC hopes last year?

You put it right, while Kubica was moaning Nick was working on getting on top of his problems and as a result he beat him during the closing stages of last season.

[Tazio]

Nick and the Ferrari power plant are the only things keeping me from running away with FGP I have Rubens and the Brawn Chassis.
I may be in the pound seats! But I need Kimi to put Enzo’s little mechanism near the front! :burnout:

[jens]

He hadn't binned a car in a race for several seasons now (I don't even remember for how long already).


Last mistake, I can remember, was in Austria 2002. :D

[ioan]

Last mistake, I can remember, was in Austria 2002. :D

:eek: 7 years without a driving mistake! :up:
Now that's what you can call a fast and very very reliable driver!

[UltimateDanGTR]

He's always been quick, as quick as the car allowed for and he's the most consistent driver on the grid.
He hadn't binned a car in a race for several seasons now (I don't even remember for how long already).

If I had a team he'd be on my shopping list.

here here! quick nick was never unquick, just most of this year his car has been a total shed........

i cant remember the last time nick crashed either

and if i was martin whitmarsh, heidfeld would be on my shopping list aswell......

EDIT: just went on you tube and looked at heidfeld crashes. crashed in monaco 2000 (as a rookie), that indy pile up in 2007 where he rolled, collided with his team mate robert kubica at the nurburgring a couple of years ago, spun in austria and t-boned sato, and once crashed into a safety car door.

apart from that, seems to me diddly squat. most of them weren't his fault, and ones that were were in his early years.

thats pretty good really. definatly a great driver. no question.

[Sonic]

very very reliable driver!

Reliable? Yes. But surely if you don't bin it. Ever. At all. You're not trying hard enough!

[UltimateDanGTR]

Reliable? Yes. But surely if you don't bin it. Ever. At all. You're not trying hard enough!

he doesnt need to try too hard, he is naturally quick ;) (im not saying he is as good as alonso etc but is actually underrated i feel)

[jens]

Yeah it could be right Heidfeld might not be as outright fast as for instance Hamilton, but I think he has a really good concentration level, which enables him to race relatively errorfree even at being relatively close to the limit. Because besides 2008 qualifyings, he hasn't seemed particularly "slow" in his career despite the reputation.

For example Alonso's title in 2005 was achieved in really heidfeldesque style. He didn't try to drive out of his skin to get race wins, but get consistent podiums and hence keep his safe championship lead.

[Sonic]

Because besides 2008 qualifyings, he hasn't seemed particularly "slow" in his career despite the reputation.


He hasn't had many uber fast team mates to be compared against. But of the best driver he has been up against he was beaten by Kubica, Webber and HHF (no I don't class Frentzen as a top driver but he did get his a$$ handed to him by HHF), and the team mates he has trumped over the years have hardly been high quality like; Pantano, a past his best JV and a still raw Massa.

This season its 7:4 against Nick in qualifying, I'm still at a loss to see why he is rated so highly by some when his record is average at best.

[jens]

He hasn't had many uber fast team mates to be compared against. But of the best driver he has been up against he was beaten by Kubica, Webber and HHF (no I don't class Frentzen as a top driver but he did get his a$$ handed to him by HHF), and the team mates he has trumped over the years have hardly been high quality like; Pantano, a past his best JV and a still raw Massa.

This season its 7:4 against Nick in qualifying, I'm still at a loss to see why he is rated so highly by some when his record is average at best.

Depends, what do you mean by "highly"? Nick isn't rated as the greatest talent of F1 by anyone really.

As for team-mates, I would say the quality of team-mates he has had, is excellent, and he has been better tested by team-mates than almost any other driver on the current grid. Heidfeld's trump card isn't really to beat others by raw pace, but by racecraft, strategy and consistency. Those factors can't be underestimated. His qualifying record may be with a minus against Kubica, but I have often seen this season, how Nick has got ahead of Robert already on the opening lap despite inferior grid position. And whenever there is a wet race, you can always bet that Heidfeld somehow sneaks a great result out of messy conditions. Again, I don't think Heidfeld is among the outright fastest drivers in the wet, but he is (one of) the best strategist, which together with setup often count more than outright pace.

[ioan]

Reliable? Yes. But surely if you don't bin it. Ever. At all. You're not trying hard enough!

Maybe he knows better than others when he is driving at the limits of the equipment and is mature enough not to think that he is superman. ;)

[UltimateDanGTR]

Maybe he knows better than others when he is driving at the limits of the equipment and is mature enough not to think that he is superman. ;)

thats one thing he's got over hamilton (though i havnt seen that from hamilton this year, but he hasnt had the chance) hence why he would make a good team mate to him and they would make a good combination.

[ioan]

He hasn't had many uber fast team mates to be compared against. But of the best driver he has been up against he was beaten by Kubica, Webber and HHF (no I don't class Frentzen as a top driver but he did get his a$$ handed to him by HHF), and the team mates he has trumped over the years have hardly been high quality like; Pantano, a past his best JV and a still raw Massa.

This season its 7:4 against Nick in qualifying, I'm still at a loss to see why he is rated so highly by some when his record is average at best.

For a start he was never beaten by Webber.
He was a rookie when teamed with HHF.
And it looks to me like he is beating Kubica right now.

You might try again to denigrate him, but you better prepare serious reasons.

PS: Qualifying means nothing, there are no points awarded for it. Just take a look at the Wins to pole average of the most successful driver and you'll understand it.

[ioan]

thats one thing he's got over hamilton (though i havnt seen that from hamilton this year, but he hasnt had the chance) hence why he would make a good team mate to him and they would make a good combination.

Lewis is maturing well at the moment. :up:

[UltimateDanGTR]

Lewis is maturing well at the moment. :up:

which is good thing for his fans like me! he needed those bad times in a dog of a car to help him mature more, and now he looks like he will be right on form next year. and heidfeld as hamiltons team mate would be brilliant, we could really see how good heidfeld REALLY is, against one of the best currently in F1, and hopefully he would win a few grands prix, and prove his worth. thats what i hope anyway.

[ioan]

which is good thing for his fans like me! he needed those bad times in a dog of a car to help him mature more, and now he looks like he will be right on form next year. and heidfeld as hamiltons team mate would be brilliant, we could really see how good heidfeld REALLY is, against one of the best currently in F1, and hopefully he would win a few grands prix, and prove his worth. thats what i hope anyway.

Same here.
I always thought that McLaren Mercedes made a mistake when they went for Kimi and kept DC instead of at least taking up Nick instead of DC.

[jens]

As for that Heidfeld vs Frentzen comparison, then they were pretty well matched and I would say pace-wise Nick may have had a slight edge. Sauber scored vast majority of its points in the wet in 2003 and as Frentzen got luckier there (NH's car failed both in AUS/BRA), which is why the older German scored more points.

But alas in driver comparisons people rarely look past point-score.

[ioan]

He was a rookie when teamed with HHF.

My bad, Nick wasn't a rookie in that season anymore.

[Sonic]

For a start he was never beaten by Webber.

Webber beat Nick 3 times in 2006 when both cars were still running at the flag. (which was about 4 times that year!!! ;) :p : ) And outscored him (although that is not conclusive as Nick bust himself up for the last few races).


He was a rookie when teamed with HHF.

I see you have already seen the error of your statement.


And it looks to me like he is beating Kubica right now.

A lucky run in the wet. One lap either side for his pitstop and he would have been nowhere. Kubica's points came in dry conditions against far superior machinery. Kubica was also on for a podium back in Aus save for a last gasp "incident".


You might try again to denigrate him, but you better prepare serious reasons.

I believe I have. I do not rate the guy, and I have shown my workings (to quote my old maths teacher). Perhaps if he gets the Macca drive and runs Hammy closer than Kovy has I'll eat my words but I seriously doubt it. :s mokin:

[jens]

Despite similar styles I think Heidfeld may be even a tad bit better than Button. He seems kinda more aggressive, especially when it comes to defensive driving. And he goes well in bad cars as well.

I have no doubt Heidfeld will do better than Kovalainen, but alas McLaren will never hire Nick. Like Renault, they seem to aim for younger drivers (with the possible exception of Kimi, but he is below 30 as well).

[UltimateDanGTR]

for me, Maccas 3 options next year are:

1. Keep kovalainen-which would, IMO, be a cautious decision that will show again that kovy isnt good enough, and to win the world championship next year they need a strong driver, either to be better support than kovy has been to hamilton or as good as hamilton. someone like....

2.....Heidfeld. For me, perfect candidate, fast driver, consistent in all cars and will do a splendid job, whether that be for fighting for wins (in a competitive car) and maybe even DARE I SAY IT the world championship,(not saying he would win it, i dont believe thats possible, but being a candidate) or providing good back-up to hamilton, which i believe he would do a good job at

3. Nico Rosberg. I rate this guy. he's done a brilliant job at williams, very consistent, although being outqualified by nakajima a couple of times is a little worrying. a good pointscorer, more so than heikki if he was in a macca. plus, i believe it is a brilliant career tactic to spend a few years at williams out of the lime light as such to gain valueble experience with less pressure on him as such, as was pointed out by jake humphreys and team today.

I would go for option 2, as i have already expressed. People might say 'what about robert kubica', now he is a great driver, as good as hamilton, alonso, massa etc, but i just get the feeling he wont be in a macca anytime soon, i get the feeling he might go to williams or renault (i dont know why either, i just get the feeling)

so if mclaren want to win the constructors championship next year, not only do they need to build a championship winning car, but they need someone as good as heidfeld alongside hamilton, that would be a great driver line up IMO

thats my overview of the situation

[ioan]

A lucky run in the wet. One lap either side for his pitstop and he would have been nowhere. Kubica's points came in dry conditions against far superior machinery. Kubica was also on for a podium back in Aus save for a last gasp "incident".

Heidfeld got a podium because he made the right choice at the right moment, even the team admitted he made the calls, and this is something very very few drivers can do.

Kubica lost his podium chance because of his typical hotheadedness. Vettel's tires were done and he could have overtaken him easily on the straight, but he chose the wrong option.

These two cases are a clear example to why I believe that Heidfeld is the better one, he's fast and he's clever. Also when the car isn't great he tries to improve it and give ideas to the engineers. Kubica only whines.

[wedge]

You put it right, while Kubica was moaning Nick was working on getting on top of his problems and as a result he beat him during the closing stages of last season.

Not good enough. He doesn't need pampering just to get those kinds of performance in a twitchy car, especially if Nick dreams of driving for McLaren. They'll be building cars that'll suit Hamilton's driving style.

[waitey]

Heidfeld got a podium because he made the right choice at the right moment, even the team admitted he made the calls, and this is something very very few drivers can do.

Kubica lost his podium chance because of his typical hotheadedness. Vettel's tires were done and he could have overtaken him easily on the straight, but he chose the wrong option.

These two cases are a clear example to why I believe that Heidfeld is the better one, he's fast and he's clever. Also when the car isn't great he tries to improve it and give ideas to the engineers. Kubica only whines.

because apparently it's so easy to pass a formula 1 car on the straights these days? just to drive right past them so early on the straight you don't even have to pass them under braking? anyone that actually thinks that incident was kubica's fault is kidding themselves. he went around the outside and gave vettel enough room clearly. he did what any driver would have done, he had the pace to catch button and was told he needed to get by vettel. vettel went way too wide and that's the end of it.

look, both bmw drivers are great drivers in my opinion. heidfeld as many have said has proven to be a great racer and extremely reliable. kubica, being younger, is a lot more aggressive and of course is prone to a little more mistakes whilst pushing the limits. but that accident in melbourne this year was definately not his fault.

who do I think would be more likely to get the mclaren seat and help mclaren more? Heidfeld. He is the perfect 2nd driver if you like to call it in that he can help the team with putting in good performances to back up hamilton. Being German would be fantastic for mclaren too and you could rely on Heidfeld a lot more than Kovy at current.

who do I think is the quicker of the two BMW drivers? Robert Kubica hands down. This guy is a lot quicker than people give him credit for. People say Nick has beaten him this year, statistically yes, but I would say they have been fairly even this year. I mean, Kubica despite what you say, should have got at least 2nd at melbourne. His engine blew the following weekend that heidfeld got 2nd, a race where they still seemed to have some early pace. Nothing going against Heidfeld, he has been great this year. But I think Kubica has been unlucky in patches and had a lot of retirements etc.

Put it this way, at the end of the day, Kubica is already a race winner. Heidfeld isn't. He has achieved more already and is still only 24 years of age. And again, people calling him a primadonna? Are you kidding me. He had every right to get upset. Anyone that would just sit there and twiddle their thumbs and say nothing when BMW changed their focus last year would be weak. He had every right to speak his mind and complain, and in the end he was right because that was their only opportunity. All that says to me is that Kubica is hungry and aggressive and wants to win. Put him in a good car and he can win a world championship. But I do admit he must learn to control that aggression, that will come with more experience.

That is the reason I don't think he should go to McLaren though..he simply could be as quick as Hamilton and of course that situation just won't be allowed at that team. he won't want to accept being the 2nd driver and Heidfeld would just be the perfect man for the job.

Again, both drivers are great in my opinion. Heidfeld is quick and more reliable than Kubica at this stage. But Kubica is the quicker driver with a lot more going for him in his career, just needs to learn to control his aggression a little more. But at the end of the day he's hungry and wants to win, a great sign.

[ioan]

because apparently it's so easy to pass a formula 1 car on the straights these days?

Yes, especially a car with shot tires and who can't get any traction out of teh slow corners.

Any other similar questions?! :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

Kubica lost his podium chance because of his typical hotheadedness. Vettel's tires were done and he could have overtaken him easily on the straight, but he chose the wrong option.

I find your argument ridiculous. He wanted to go for the win and therefore he took the first chance he had to pass Vettel. Any racing driver with intention of winning would do exactly what he did, because that might've been his best chance to pass Vettel, and his only opportunity for victory.

I get the feeling you are only saying that Kubica was hot-headed because you are biased towards both Vettel and Heidfeld.


These two cases are a clear example to why I believe that Heidfeld is the better one, he's fast and he's clever. Also when the car isn't great he tries to improve it and give ideas to the engineers. Kubica only whines.

Are you saying Kubica doesn't give ideas to the engineers? Have you got quotes to support that?

It mightn'tve been the best way to get his point across last year, but Kubica was absolutely right to get annoyed at BMW when they were changing their focus to this year when he could've won a drivers championship. Lunacy.

[ioan]

I find your argument ridiculous. He wanted to go for the win and therefore he took the first chance he had to pass Vettel.

I find your argument ridiculous. (and yes I ctually did a copy paste from your post :D )
Thus I said he was not acting with his head, because if he wanted to win he first of all needed to get by Vettel not destroy his car in the process.

[ShiftingGears]

Thus I said he was not acting with his head, because if he wanted to win he first of all needed to get by Vettel not destroy his car in the process.

And you're solely blaming Kubica for the accident? Vettel went wide when Kubica was ahead of him.

[ioan]

And you're solely blaming Kubica for the accident? Vettel went wide when Kubica was ahead of him.

When was Kubica ahead of Vettel? :confused:

And yes I solely blame Kubica because the guy who is overtaking has to make sure he can pull it out before committing to the move. Vettel had no interest in making Kubi's life easy and rightly so.

Anyway this thread is about Nick and such brainless moves are not part of his repertory.

[Sonic]

is this the same Ioan? I'm surprised that he doesn't like a driver who has a go. Kubica as many have said already did what he had to do and had a go early before Vettel got wise to where the Pole was quicker and starter to be able to put up a defence.

[ioan]

is this the same Ioan? I'm surprised that he doesn't like a driver who has a go. Kubica as many have said already did what he had to do and had a go early before Vettel got wise to where the Pole was quicker and starter to be able to put up a defence.

Kubica had a go at it, at the wrong time and in the wrong place. I say he did grossly misjudge the situation.

Vettel wasn't going to put up any kind of defense as his tires were shot and were going to get only worse.
What kind of defense can you put up when you have no traction down the straight and you are limited to only one defensive move?

[Sonic]

I can think of a few;

For one, slower apex speed would contain the other driver behind you when it is impossible to pass allowing you to get on the gas when your opponent is having to get out of it to. (Note; this is not brake testing)

But as you correctly say this is not about Kubica but more his name came up to highlight why IMO Nick is not worthy of a top seat.

[wedge]

I find your argument ridiculous. He wanted to go for the win and therefore he took the first chance he had to pass Vettel. Any racing driver with intention of winning would do exactly what he did, because that might've been his best chance to pass Vettel, and his only opportunity for victory.

I get the feeling you are only saying that Kubica was hot-headed because you are biased towards both Vettel and Heidfeld.



If it was Golden Boy the First, Ioan would've called Hamilton an idiot.

But because this is Golden Boy the Second we're talking about then Vettel can do no wrong according to Ioan.


Kubica had a go at it, at the wrong time and in the wrong place. I say he did grossly misjudge the situation.

Vettel wasn't going to put up any kind of defense as his tires were shot and were going to get only worse.
What kind of defense can you put up when you have no traction down the straight and you are limited to only one defensive move?

Vettel F'ed up.

Rosberg had the same graining problem in the final stint and didn't do stupid things to save track position.

[ioan]

I can think of a few;

For one, slower apex speed would contain the other driver behind you when it is impossible to pass allowing you to get on the gas when your opponent is having to get out of it to. (Note; this is not brake testing)

On a straight line there is no apex! As I recall we were talking about straights not corners.

[ioan]

Vettel F'ed up.

Rosberg had the same graining problem in the final stint and didn't do stupid things to save track position.

So in your opinion Vettel should have gifted his position to a hotheaded Kubica?
You praise Kubica for going for a gap that wasn't there but you blame Vettel for racing to protect his position.

Double standards, eh?! :laugh:

[F1boat]

I trust FIA in the case of Oz and they put the blame solely on Vettel. IMO he is also to blame, he is a fighter, but was too hotheaded. I am pleased to say, however, that after the FIA penalty he remains a fighter, but has not done anything foolish with other drivers since Oz.

[ShiftingGears]

When was Kubica ahead of Vettel? :confused:

Going into the corner. He was ahead on the track because when Vettel ran into him, he hit the back of Kubica's car.


And yes I solely blame Kubica because the guy who is overtaking has to make sure he can pull it out before committing to the move. Vettel had no interest in making Kubi's life easy and rightly so.

So every time a driver being overtaken runs into the side of the car passing them, it is the person who is overtaking's fault? I find that a pretty stupid idea. Kubica left him more than enough room, nothing silly about what he did.

[waitey]

Yes, especially a car with shot tires and who can't get any traction out of teh slow corners.

Any other similar questions?! :rolleyes:

My point being: of course vettel was lacking traction out of the corners, but the pass comes at a corner under braking. the straights at albert park aren't long enough for kubica to just drive around him on the straight..

he gains on vettel at the exit of a corner (e.g turn 2 at melbourne) and has better speed down the straight where he can catch him under brakes..

I really, really think it's unfair to blame Kubica in this incident. You are calling him a hothead, when if anything, Vettel was probably the hothead for not accepting that he was simply slower and ending both of their races.

Kubica gave him PLENTY of room. He was on the outside and left a clear line for Vettel on the inside line. Vettel ran wide and hit kubica. HOW is this Kubica's fault?

You obviously don't like Robert but it doesn't mean you have to blame him for this accident. I am going to admit I think Robert is a terrific talent. But I can admit when he makes mistakes and still see his flaws. But in this case no way was he at fault..

Anyways, great drive by both BMW drivers today. Nick had great pace at the end and again clawed his way back after nearly pulling off a great start.

[Sonic]

On a straight line there is no apex! As I recall we were talking about straights not corners.

Someone else mentioned straights, I was discussing defence in general.

Anywho; congrats to Nick today. One drive isn't going to change my opinion but he drove well today.

[Tazio]

Congrat's to Nick, RK and the rest of the team!

[jens]

Another solid drive from Heidfeld and what a GREAT move on Webber around the outside. Another testimony to his fantastic racecraft! I don't know, why is Heidfeld so downplayed by some. At Spa he once again had decent race pace (even better one in quali for a change!) and finished right behind Kubica, who I personally rate as one of the outright fastest drivers on the grid.

[Garry Walker]

These two cases are a clear example to why I believe that Heidfeld is the better one, he's fast and he's clever. Also when the car isn't great he tries to improve it and give ideas to the engineers. Kubica only whines.
How do you know Kubica does not give ideas to engineers and doesnt try to improve it? Proof?



And yes I solely blame Kubica because the guy who is overtaking has to make sure he can pull it out before committing to the move. Vettel had no interest in making Kubi's life easy and rightly so.

Thankfully the FIA stewards were less biased and gave a fair penalty to that german boy with the retarded smile.

[F1boat]

I am amazed that some people have so little faith in the FIA stewards. Like soccer fans.

[airshifter]

Great to see both Nick and Robert back in the points with a solid race.

And though I'm a fan of Kubica I would have to say the Oz GP was a matter of both drivers pushing extremes, one on the attack and the other on the defense.

[ShiftingGears]

I am amazed that some people have so little faith in the FIA stewards. Like soccer fans.

If the stewards calls were more consistent, and more correct, I would have more faith in them.


They aren't.

[wedge]

If the stewards calls were more consistent, and more correct, I would have more faith in them.


They aren't.

They're lawyers who read and implement the rules without knowing the sporting context because they don't know the concept of racing.

Saying that, when ex racer Wally Dallenbach Jr was Chief Steward in CART in the mid 90s the drivers ganged up on Alex Zanardi who in their minds was driving dangerously (when really they had no balls and wanted to keep Zanardi in check because they were inferior racers).

Dallenbach decided to use majority rule/mob rule instead of using his 'experience'/head more and imposed penalties on Zanardi's aggressive (but fair) driving tactics.

Dallenbach has since apologised to Zanardi for his dumb actions.

[ShiftingGears]

They're lawyers who read and implement the rules without knowing the sporting context because they don't know the concept of racing.


Exactly. A lot of them are armchair experts - just that their armchairs are in the race control room.

[ShiftingGears]

Kubica only whines.

Can't help but notice you've dodged the question.



So do you actually have any evidence to suggest your claim is close to accurate?

[ioan]

So do you actually have any evidence to suggest your claim is close to accurate?

The BMW car to pits radio communications. Ever time he's on radio with his engineer he's complaining about something but I've never heard him give the smallest indication to why he has a problem and what should be done, just complaining about grip, engine and so on.

On the other hand Nick is very composed and he explains exactly, what and why happens and what he thinks the remedy might be.

That's a huge different and I know which driver I would rather work with, the one who doesn't whine like a baby.

[wedge]

The BMW car to pits radio communications. Ever time he's on radio with his engineer he's complaining about something but I've never heard him give the smallest indication to why he has a problem and what should be done, just complaining about grip, engine and so on.

On the other hand Nick is very composed and he explains exactly, what and why happens and what he thinks the remedy might be.

That's a huge different and I know which driver I would rather work with, the one who doesn't whine like a baby.

It proves nothing because they're just radio excerpts.

And it would help if you used specific examples instead trying to claim how good Heidfeld.

Incidently, Ian Phillips then Business Manager for Jordan and now Force India, claimed on Friday that Heidfeld was too aloof and lazy work attitude.

[ioan]

It proves nothing because they're just radio excerpts.

Asking for proof and than ignoring it. Typical.


And it would help if you used specific examples instead trying to claim how good Heidfeld.

Like a certain BMW team boss singing praises when he does make the perfect decisions at the right moment in changing conditions?



"Then in the wet, I have to say Nick did a fantastic job. He had been on his wet tyres for very long already when it really poured down, and the car was undriveable.

"We were ready all the time to service him, but he decided lap after lap to stay out, and he finally managed it until the red flag. That was the key then to P2 - and it tells a lot not just about Nick's experience but also his driving capabilities in the wet. That was really very good."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74322

Or this one:



Willy Rampf (Technical Director): "This was the most amazing race I have ever experienced. Up until two laps from the end everything was quite normal, but then things changed dramatically when it started raining. Nick radioed to the pits that he wanted to change tyres. He was the first driver to take this decision.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70395

I think it's more than enough to prove he's a smart drive and his driver skills and intelligent are highly appreciated by the team.
I rest my case.


Incidently, Ian Phillips then Business Manager for Jordan and now Force India, claimed on Friday that Heidfeld was too aloof and lazy work attitude.

First of all even IF it were true it was eons ago.
Secondly please give us a link.

[wedge]

Asking for proof and than ignoring it. Typical.

Radio comms doesn't take into account of meetings and debriefs behind closed doors.


I think it's more than enough to prove he's a smart drive and his driver skills and intelligent are highly appreciated by the team.
I rest my case.

and spent the rest of last year being destroyed by Kubica because Heidfeld needed more help.

I rest my case


First of all even IF it were true it was eons ago.
Secondly please give us a link.

It was on BBc 5Live/Kangaroo TV.

[ioan]

I rest my case

Sure you do cause you have got none. I proved with quotes from within BMW that Nick is a very intelligent and highly killed driver and that the team are very happy with that.

You are yet to produce any kind of proof for your allegation, and IMO you will not because there isn't any. :D



It was on BBc 5Live/Kangaroo TV.

Link please.

[jens]

Didn't Jacques Villeneuve once describe Heidfeld as someone, who is "working too much"? :D I have never heard anyone describing Heidi as "lazy". So far he has been one of the last drivers to get accused for that.

[ioan]

Didn't Jacques Villeneuve once describe Heidfeld as someone, who is "working too much"? :D I have never heard anyone describing Heidi as "lazy". So far he has been one of the last drivers to get accused for that.

You know how it is, everyone can fabricate a source that can't be linked to when asked! ;)

[wedge]

You know how it is, everyone can fabricate a source that can't be linked to when asked! ;)

Becuase it was only available only to British viewers and those with access to Kangaroo TV on last Friday.

If Heidfeld is highly skilled and intelligent then why was he destroyed by Kubica needed more pampering from BMW to get the best out him last year?

[ioan]

Becuase it was only available only to British viewers and those with access to Kangaroo TV on last Friday.

Yeah, sure.



If Heidfeld is highly skilled and intelligent then why was he destroyed by Kubica needed more pampering from BMW to get the best out him last year?

Mgarb arfgd brsd nfvds?

[BDunnell]

You know how it is, everyone can fabricate a source that can't be linked to when asked! ;)

Accusing another forum member, and one whose opinions are generally more sensible than most, of fabricating a source is rather beyond the pale.

[wedge]

Mgarb arfgd brsd nfvds?

I rest my case

[ioan]

I rest my case

Using some commas would have been enough but maybe it's better this way it will save you some face, given that you had no proof to support your claims.

[wedge]

Using some commas would have been enough but maybe it's better this way it will save you some face, given that you had no proof to support your claims.

:rotflmao:

I'm not worried about saving face or pride or ego. If I'm wrong then I'm happy to say so: http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=682470&postcount=54

Anyway you have more to worry about. Just what excuses does 'Quick Nick' have for not being so quick against Kubica last year?

[ioan]

:rotflmao:

I'm not worried about saving face or pride or ego. If I'm wrong then I'm happy to say so: http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=682470&postcount=54

Anyway you have more to worry about. Just what excuses does 'Quick Nick' have for not being so quick against Kubica last year?

We are in 2009, please try to keep up.

[wedge]

So Nick is good in a bad car but bad in a good race winning car?

[jens]

BMW F1.08 was hardly a race-winning car and one lucky win doesn't change that. Despite the worst season of his career Heidfeld still performed better than Kovalainen and was about on par with Räikkönen, all of who had disappointing seasons.

What about 2007? BMW was a good car and Heidfeld was consistently driving well, especially in comparison with Kubica. Nick didn't seem to have any notable quali troubles that year either.

[wedge]

BMW F1.08 was hardly a race-winning car and one lucky win doesn't change that. Despite the worst season of his career Heidfeld still performed better than Kovalainen and was about on par with Räikkönen, all of who had disappointing seasons.

Top 3 car. Kubica was on the podium 7 times to Heidfeld's 4.

Still performed crap compared to Kubica. So what were his excuses?


What about 2007? BMW was a good car and Heidfeld was consistently driving well, especially in comparison with Kubica. Nick didn't seem to have any notable quali troubles that year either.

Kubica's first full season and struggled to adapt to the Bridgestones.

[ioan]

BMW F1.08 was hardly a race-winning car and one lucky win doesn't change that. Despite the worst season of his career Heidfeld still performed better than Kovalainen and was about on par with Räikkönen, all of who had disappointing seasons.

What about 2007? BMW was a good car and Heidfeld was consistently driving well, especially in comparison with Kubica. Nick didn't seem to have any notable quali troubles that year either.

You are making to much sense there jens, not good at all for this conversation.
Just wait and see how he will come up with fabricated excuses that he can't support.

PS: Just saw his reply. :D

[jens]

Top 3 car. Kubica was on the podium 7 times to Heidfeld's 4.

Still performed crap compared to Kubica. So what were his excuses?


No excuses, but this has been Heidfeld's only "crap" season in F1. Räikkönen had a "crap" 2008 too, but nobody says he is useless solely due to that year.

And 7-4 (in terms of podiums) isn't really that big of a loss to a team-mate. If anything, it marks being a solid #2 rather than "crap".

[wedge]

No excuses, but this has been Heidfeld's only "crap" season in F1. Räikkönen had a "crap" 2008 too, but nobody says he is useless solely due to that year.

And 7-4 (in terms of podiums) isn't really that big of a loss to a team-mate. If anything, it marks being a solid #2 rather than "crap".

Kubica finished with 72pts, Heidfeld 56

Heidfeld still took a hell of beating from Kubica. Destroyed him in qualy, race, fastest laps.

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/NHeidfeld

[jens]

Kubica finished with 72pts, Heidfeld 56

Heidfeld still took a hell of beating from Kubica. Destroyed him in qualy, race, fastest laps.

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/NHeidfeld

Actually it was 75-60, because the score 72-56 existed before the Chinese Grand Prix. Try this:
http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2008/

But anyway, there is no denying that 2008 was a disappointing season for Nick. ;) Let's rather look forward to the future or analyze other seasons for a change.

[DexDexter]

No excuses, but this has been Heidfeld's only "crap" season in F1. Räikkönen had a "crap" 2008 too, but nobody says he is useless solely due to that year.

And 7-4 (in terms of podiums) isn't really that big of a loss to a team-mate. If anything, it marks being a solid #2 rather than "crap".

One really can't compare a driver with a WDC, two times the runner-up in WDC, 18 victories, etc. to a driver who has never won a race. But anyway, IMO Heidfeld isn't a bad driver but ever since Kubica came to Sauber, he has struggled to match Kubica's qualifying speed, at least that's the impression I and many others I'm sure have. But crap no.

[Tazio]

Nick :up:
The guy has had an exemplary career (although lack-luster).
RK may be faster than him now. So what if he is?
That doesn't make Nick any slower!

[wedge]

One really can't compare a driver with a WDC, two times the runner-up in WDC, 18 victories, etc. to a driver who has never won a race. But anyway, IMO Heidfeld isn't a bad driver but ever since Kubica came to Sauber, he has struggled to match Kubica's qualifying speed, at least that's the impression I and many others I'm sure have. But crap no.

I agree but please remember that when you're debating with the likes of Ioan then you have to use exaggerated language to get your point across!

[ioan]

I agree but please remember that when you're debating with the likes of Ioan then you have to use exaggerated language to get your point across!

That's why you are posting rubbish? Good to know. :wave:

[wedge]

That's why you are posting rubbish? Good to know. :wave:

Someone please verify that Ian Phillips said Heidfeld was lazy at Jordan. I can't remember when he said but he said it in FP2:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8227973.stm

Oh and you suggesting Kubica is a moaner who cannot make suggestions to set up well Massa is a bit of a moaner and its usually Rob Smedley who makes set up suggestions.

During the practice sessions in Spain and Germany this year I've heard him make suggestions regarding front wing angles.

Remember Monaco last year in qualy when Smedley insisted Massa could carry way more speed into St. Devote because of telemetry and Massa was hesitant and Smedley coaxed Massa into doing it in Q3.

So by your logic Ioan does that make Massa dumb?