Toyota poised to slash production

[paddocknews]

Toyota is poised to slash production by as much as 580,000 vehicles or almost 6 percent of global capacity in an effort to stem losses amid the sharp downturn in car sales.
Japan's largest carmaker, which is forecasting its second consecutive net loss this year, said it would shut a production line in western Japan from next spring through to the second half of 2011, reducing output by 220,000 vehicles.
Toyota is also looking to pull out of Nummi, its manufacturing joint venture with General Motors, in California, the company said.

source:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/08/26/toyota.production.ft/index.html

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78012

"The Japanese manufacturer has been expected to take up its option on the German, which it still holds, for some time, but has yet to do so"

[gloomyDAY]

Not looking good...

I think team Toyota have bit the dust.

[Sonic]

Agreed Gloomy. Not looking great. Perhaps had they made a breakthrough this season and finally won a race I would have been feeling more positive about seeing them back for 2010. But what with their budget still unconfirmed for next season, poor recent form and the FIA possibly opening up another new team slot (to fill the void) I'm very doubtful that the car in front next year will be a Toyota. :(

[ioan]

Calm down people. Other manufacturers reduced teh production much more than that.

[jens]

After the qualifying session for the Bahrain GP anything seemed possible and the future looked bright :D Finally turning into a real top team seemed so close to becoming a reality...

But what has happened after that, is frankly stunning, unbelievable. Even in 2005 their in-season development pace was better, not mentioning other years. Has Toyota's in-season development been very dependent on track testing in the past or has the reduced budget affected them? I can't find any other reason for such sudden clueless and hopeless actions, which have seen basically zero efficient upgrades since the Spanish GP.

When Toyota began its F1 journey, everything seemed great in the beginning. Although Salo's P6 in Australia was a fluke, McNish's P7 in Malaysia and Salo's another 6th in Brazil were achieved pretty much on merit (of course there were a few losses ahead, but that was normal on those days). Toyota seemed immediately better than other underperforming big-names like Jaguar and BAR... Amazing that they are now worse than they were in the beginning. But then again I guess chief designer Gustav Brunner and team principal Ove Andersson were also better than current persons in those positions - Vasselon and Howett.

Now I think Toyota would be better off leaving and ending this misery...

[ioan]

After the qualifying session for the Bahrain GP anything seemed possible...

Until 3 hours later when it became obvious that they were running on fumes.

[Sonic]

Calm down people. Other manufacturers reduced teh production much more than that.

Perhaps so, but this was a make or break season for the team. They said so themselves and none of this news is sounding promising.

But in the words of Coporal Jones Don't Panic! :cool:

[ioan]

Perhaps so, but this was a make or break season for the team. They said so themselves and none of this news is sounding promising.

But in the words of Coporal Jones Don't Panic! :cool:

Than they will have stopped because of the poor results anyway nothing to do with reducing the production.

[jens]

Until 3 hours later when it became obvious that they were running on fumes.

Not really or at least the "fumes" were nothing compared to Alonso in China or Hungary. Trulli was only a few kilos lighter than Brawns. Only Vettel's RBR had 10+ kg's on-board.

[ioan]

Not really or at least the "fumes" were nothing compared to Alonso in China or Hungary. Trulli was only a few kilos lighter than Brawns. Only Vettel's RBR had 10+ kg's on-board.

What was that the lap when the Toyota stopped, 9 or 10?
Who cares what Alonso did in China (and was unlucky because the race started and continued under SC), we are talking about Bahrain here.

[BDunnell]

Put oneself in the position of Toyota's bosses. What would you do? I'd pull out, no question.

[Somebody]

If they're pulling out, why sign the Concorde Agreement, which commits them until 2012? BMW announced they were pulling out when they did to AVOID signing the CA.

[gloomyDAY]

Put oneself in the position of Toyota's bosses. What would you do? I'd pull out, no question.Bingo!

I'd like to think that Toyota F1 and Toyota Corp. are mutually exclusive.
Too bad in reality that is not the case.

Think of the return Toyota are receiving from F1. It's a mere 3 day commercial, which the company can get produced and distributed for a fraction of the cost.

Bernie might be upset since Toyota signed the Concorde Agreement.
Might have to sue the pants off of the bosses in Japan.

[SGWilko]

If they're pulling out, why sign the Concorde Agreement, which commits them until 2012? BMW announced they were pulling out when they did to AVOID signing the CA.

Makes the asset more saleable - guaranteed income etc.....

[Knock-on]

Bingo!

I'd like to think that Toyota F1 and Toyota Corp. are mutually exclusive.
Too bad in reality that is not the case.

Think of the return Toyota are receiving from F1. It's a mere 3 day commercial, which the company can get produced and distributed for a fraction of the cost.

Bernie might be upset since Toyota signed the Concorde Agreement.
Might have to sue the pants off of the bosses in Japan.

Was it Toyota Corporate or Toyota F1 that signed ;)

[Knock-on]

Calm down people. Other manufacturers reduced teh production much more than that.

Really? Who?

[ioan]

Really? Who?

Pretty much everyone but the small volume luxury car manufacturers.

[Knock-on]

Pretty much everyone but the small volume luxury car manufacturers.

Who are all these manufacturers that have slashed production more than Toyota?

[ioan]

Are you here to lose my time?
Did you take a look at the auto market in the last year?

Have a look at the production of the French manufacturers to start with, all of them.
Than take a look at the dive that the US manufacturers took and you can continue with Japanese (Honda already one year ago) and even Germans had to do it.

Or are you going to tell me that even though sales plummeted by more than 10% they continued to produce to increase the stocks?! :rolleyes:

[V12]

After the qualifying session for the Bahrain GP anything seemed possible and the future looked bright :D Finally turning into a real top team seemed so close to becoming a reality...

But what has happened after that, is frankly stunning, unbelievable. Even in 2005 their in-season development pace was better, not mentioning other years. Has Toyota's in-season development been very dependent on track testing in the past or has the reduced budget affected them? I can't find any other reason for such sudden clueless and hopeless actions, which have seen basically zero efficient upgrades since the Spanish GP.

When Toyota began its F1 journey, everything seemed great in the beginning. Although Salo's P6 in Australia was a fluke, McNish's P7 in Malaysia and Salo's another 6th in Brazil were achieved pretty much on merit (of course there were a few losses ahead, but that was normal on those days). Toyota seemed immediately better than other underperforming big-names like Jaguar and BAR... Amazing that they are now worse than they were in the beginning. But then again I guess chief designer Gustav Brunner and team principal Ove Andersson were also better than current persons in those positions - Vasselon and Howett.

Now I think Toyota would be better off leaving and ending this misery...


Funny that you should mention the underperforming big names of Jaguar and BAR. Which of course have now metamorphosed into the current front runners Red Bull and Brawn respectively... just shows what can be achieved by a "small" team that nevertheless has good engineering talent and good funding (from Red Bull and Honda 2008 development and severance payments). I still wonder what Toyota could achieve if they teamed up with say, Williams (in the same fashion that Honda, Renault and BMW did with them in the past).

[Knock-on]

Are you here to lose my time?
Did you take a look at the auto market in the last year?

Have a look at the production of the French manufacturers to start with, all of them.
Than take a look at the dive that the US manufacturers took and you can continue with Japanese (Honda already one year ago) and even Germans had to do it.

Or are you going to tell me that even though sales plummeted by more than 10% they continued to produce to increase the stocks?! :rolleyes:

Nobody is denying that. What I am denying is your clain that other manufacturers have had to reduce production more than Toyota.

I was just surprised that the largest Car Manufacturer in the world is not cutting production as much as their rivals as you claim and wanted to read about it to understand more.

Of course, if you can't be bothered to waste your time by providing some links then we have to assume it's just your opinion with no basis in fact.

Of course, if you can't be bothered to waste your time by providing some links then we have to assume it's just your opinion with no basis in fact.

Here's some links...

http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/622264/ford_to_slash_n_american_production/index.html

That's a 21% cut, in 2006, as opposed to Toyota's 10% planned for 2010.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081213/BUSINESS01/812130354/

That's a 52% reduction.

http://www.euronews.net/2008/10/27/renault-and-peugeot-citroen-cut-production/

That article mentions 30% reduction.

Which backs up the Romanian's statement.

Try a google search, cock.

[ioan]

Nobody is denying that. What I am denying is your clain that other manufacturers have had to reduce production more than Toyota.

I was just surprised that the largest Car Manufacturer in the world is not cutting production as much as their rivals as you claim and wanted to read about it to understand more.

Of course, if you can't be bothered to waste your time by providing some links then we have to assume it's just your opinion with no basis in fact.

Here:



Le groupe PSA Peugeot Citroën table pourtant sur un recul de ses ventes et une baisse de la production de l'ordre de 20% pour 2009 chacun.

http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/peugeot-reduit-ses-stocks-plus-vite-que-prevu-selon-la-direction.159976

Hopefully this will be enough for you as I have other things to do than to come up with quotes for the most obvious facts.

PS: I see Tamburello was faster than me. Thanks Tam! :up:

[ioan]

Here's some links...

http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/622264/ford_to_slash_n_american_production/index.html

That's a 21% cut, in 2006, as opposed to Toyota's 10% planned for 2010.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081213/BUSINESS01/812130354/

That's a 52% reduction.

http://www.euronews.net/2008/10/27/renault-and-peugeot-citroen-cut-production/

That article mentions 30% reduction.

Which backs up the Romanian's statement.

Try a google search, cock.

Thanks Tam! :)

[gloomyDAY]

Try a google search, cock. :rotflmao:

Ok, let's chill out.

:rotflmao:

Ok, let's chill out.

Gloomy, tis not an insult, it is an affectionate term from 'oop north' in England.

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm

[DexDexter]

Talking about car manufacturers (bit offtopic), IMO F1 teams should start courting Hyundai/Kia, they are going from strength to strength both in the US and also in Europe while almost all other car manufacturers are struggling.

http://blogs.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1034460_hyundai-kia-becomes-the-worlds-fourth-largest-automaker

[Knock-on]

Here's some links...

http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/622264/ford_to_slash_n_american_production/index.html

That's a 21% cut, in 2006, as opposed to Toyota's 10% planned for 2010.

That's a 21% cut for cars in Q4 for N America representing 168,000 units.


http://www.freep.com/article/20081213/BUSINESS01/812130354/

That's a 52% reduction.

Representing 250,000 cars. Terrible I agree.


http://www.euronews.net/2008/10/27/renault-and-peugeot-citroen-cut-production/

That article mentions 30% reduction.

It's a rumour. Back in June PSA said they had experienced a 12% reduction and was improving mainly due to Govt incentives.

Try posting something real rather than any old rubbish that supports ioans claim.


Which backs up the Romanian's statement.

Try a google search, cock.

1. Try reading the rubbish you post before insulting people, cock.

2. Even the rubbish you have posted is insignificant against the 700,000 units Toyota are slashing.

There is no arguement here. Nothing to see. The Biggest manufacturer has dropped a bombshell and by claiming it's nothing to worry about and there are others that have experienced worse is stupid in the extreem.

I suggest you let your little friend fight his own corner. Better to have one face with egg on than two ;)

[Knock-on]

Here:



http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/peugeot-reduit-ses-stocks-plus-vite-que-prevu-selon-la-direction.159976

Hopefully this will be enough for you as I have other things to do than to come up with quotes for the most obvious facts.

PS: I see Tamburello was faster than me. Thanks Tam! :up:

Thanks

Don't know why you and Tam are posting stuff which disproves your point but thanks :D

[ioan]

Thanks

Don't know why you and Tam are posting stuff which disproves your point but thanks :D

I just don't know why I post anything to someone who obviously cant differentiate between black and white for a start.

I were wrong all the way, it's just that you aren't man enough to acknowledge it, you never were and never will be. :\

[ClarkFan]

Knock-on, try moving on in the paper from the sport section to the financial news. You will find that Toyota's troubles are relatively small compared to other car manufacturers.

However, that does not mean that the downturn is not a serious shock for Toyota. In their current fiscal year, the company will lose money for the first time since they added automobiles to the product to complement sewing looms (that is a long time). And over the past two generations, the parent company has gone from triumph to triumph, taking larger shares in nearly every car market in the world. They probably thought they were bulletproof, but then the financial sector turned up with a lump of Kryptonite.

No, they are not as badly off as Chrysler, GM or Ford, which have all lost more money in recent years than they made in the previouls generation. And they are still increasing share in many markets, definitely in the US and possibly in Europe. But this still has be a serious shock for senior management.

But F1 has been very expensive for Toyota, and the team is largely self-sponsored. That was also true for Honda and BMW and they are now gone. Renault is in something of the same box, but they don't spend as much money on the team, and take in some money on the Red Bull engine deal (and possibly from Nelson for Nelsinho). McLaren is well sponsored and probably much less of a drain on Daimler, and Ferrari F1 may be a profit center due to merchandise licensing fees.

ClarkFan

[DexDexter]

Gloomy, tis not an insult, it is an affectionate term from 'oop north' in England.

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm

So it's ok for everybody to call you an old cock from now on, right? :D

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/o.htm

[Knock-on]

Knock-on, try moving on in the paper from the sport section to the financial news. You will find that Toyota's troubles are relatively small compared to other car manufacturers.

However, that does not mean that the downturn is not a serious shock for Toyota. In their current fiscal year, the company will lose money for the first time since they added automobiles to the product to complement sewing looms (that is a long time). And over the past two generations, the parent company has gone from triumph to triumph, taking larger shares in nearly every car market in the world. They probably thought they were bulletproof, but then the financial sector turned up with a lump of Kryptonite.

No, they are not as badly off as Chrysler, GM or Ford, which have all lost more money in recent years than they made in the previouls generation. And they are still increasing share in many markets, definitely in the US and possibly in Europe. But this still has be a serious shock for senior management.

But F1 has been very expensive for Toyota, and the team is largely self-sponsored. That was also true for Honda and BMW and they are now gone. Renault is in something of the same box, but they don't spend as much money on the team, and take in some money on the Red Bull engine deal (and possibly from Nelson for Nelsinho). McLaren is well sponsored and probably much less of a drain on Daimler, and Ferrari F1 may be a profit center due to merchandise licensing fees.

ClarkFan

Hi Clark

Believe it or not, I spend most of my time in the Financial pages and appreciate the mess that GM and Ford are in. I would also like to say that a lot of it is their own fault. Granted, they cannot be held responsible for the recession, although some of the lending practices of dealerships have lead to significant amounts of toxic debt, but they focused too much on domestic markets and vehicles that tradittionally sold when the market was obviously changing due to increased oil prices.

However, we can debate this as much as you like but it is not the point I was questioning.

Our friend ioan wrote quite clearly:


Calm down people. Other manufacturers reduced teh production much more than that.

All I asked was for him to prove it and every link that he and Tamburello have posted proves the opposite.

Personally, I think this is a good move from Toyota. If the American domestic market and workforce were more realistic then they would have realised that GM and Ford needed to take similar actions no matter how hard that is instead of doing it piecemeal and badgering Government in their Lear jets for taxpayers money to shore up the quicksand foundations of these National employers.

[Knock-on]

So it's ok for everybody to call you an old cock from now on, right? :D

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/o.htm

Our friend Tamb likes to play with words and argue minutia to prove an arguement.

If a friend of mine called me "cock", it would be taken in a friendly way but with someone like Tamb, I accept it is intended as an insult.

Doesn't really worry me though :laugh:

Believe me, Knock, if I wanted to call you a full blown penis because of what you type, I would.

Me old spanner.

So it's ok for everybody to call you an old cock from now on, right? :D

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/o.htm

Less of the old!

[ioan]

Our friend ioan wrote quite clearly:



All I asked was for him to prove it and every link that he and Tamburello have posted proves the opposite.

And in your opinion 20% isn't much more than 6.5%?
I knew you weren't the sharpest knife in the drawer but looks like you are blunter than hammer! :D

[Saint Devote]

The question is whether Toyota is serious about winning in f1.

They got rid of Gascoyne and yet implemented a lot of his changes, they still make decision by consensus - very non-f1 - and they have two drivers neither of whom have the ability to lead the team.

So exactly why will Toyota waste their money and maintain their reputation of being also-rans?

If they withdraw the company will not concern itself with other people's timetables - remember they are Toyota, a lumbering auto manufacturer not a nimble motor racing outfit.

Their business is manufacturing cars unlike Williams for example or Ferrari where racing IS their busienss first.

[ClarkFan]

All I asked was for him to prove it and every link that he and Tamburello have posted proves the opposite.

Personally, I think this is a good move from Toyota. If the American domestic market and workforce were more realistic then they would have realised that GM and Ford needed to take similar actions no matter how hard that is instead of doing it piecemeal and badgering Government in their Lear jets for taxpayers money to shore up the quicksand foundations of these National employers.
I can't prove that Toyota's cut is smaller than others, either, but I do believe that is likely. In particular, while Toyota's North American sales comparisons have been terrible, they have not been as terrible as everyone else's - the figures for Chrysler and GM have been particularly awful, and even Honda is off more than Toyota. All those manufacturers have adjust production accordingly, even if they have not made formal anouncements. (Picture the public relations departments putting out cheery news releases saying, "Our sales stink so we have to stop making cars.") Toyota has also been holding up better than Porsche, Mercedes and BMW - guess you don't have to tap your (now frozen) home equity line of credit to buy a Toyota.

I am not as current on the European and Asian sales numbers, but they can't be very good. Again, a 10% year-over-year loss in turnover is a bad result, but is it worse than the competition?

But for Toyota a 10% decline is a stunning setback, even if on the current lowered grading scale it doesn't look that bad. Their reaction in other activities will be based on internal perception, not on how well they are doing in relation to others. That decline will lead to some kind of cutbacks, just so they can continue support paying dividends to the Toyoda Loom Works.

ClarkFan, CFA

[Saint Devote]

Toyota is a good reflection of the Japanese economy as a whole. The economy according to the numbers released tonight - early morn in Tokyo - show an economy that is literally imploding with the worst numbers in decades.

Consumer spending has not only reduced but has collapsed.

The probability of a turn around is far out.

How does Toyota justify spending in f1 when it has been so very unsuccessful after spending over $1 billion over the past 10 years in f1 and it is closing down manufacturing facilities and reducing workers.

It will be a surprise if the team is around in 2010.

[Knock-on]

I can't prove that Toyota's cut is smaller than others, either,

It's not, it's larger but in terms of a percentage, posibly not as large as some. However, in terms of physical cars and due to their market share, it is the most.

What does this mean for Toyota and F1?

I think it's positive for both actually.

For Toyota, they are doing the right thing and resizing according to the market. Pretty f**king blue sky thinking there I know but when other companies are running around trying to prop up a flawed business model, Toyota (and Honda actually) are being realistic and cutting their coat to suit their cloth rather than the other way around. Todays automotitive market has changed and the old Guard who are being artificially propped up are going to fall and fall hard unless they follow the Japs.

Why is this good for F1? Well, it's in the same mess. We now are expecting Governments to pay the extortionate fees levied by FOM because it's inflated beyond it's means. Pop will eat itself and F1 needs to do the same. Manufacturers pileing in $$gazillions$$ to buy a championship has created a pi$$ing contest which has little resembelance to racing as a sport.

F1 needs a little implosion to move forward and I think it's getting it.