Williams actively seeking early end to Toyota engine deal

[Giuseppe F1]

Now is this because:

A) They arent happy with Toyota performance and/or general relationship
B) They are after the low price Cosworths from 2010
C) Toyota may be pulling out of F1 wholesale and so a new engine partner required?


Hmmmm, mind boggles.

So, we could have a return of 'Williams-Renaults' in 2010 - Just need to sign Rothmans as title sponsor now! :)



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77897

Williams seeks early end to Toyota deal

By Jonathan Noble and Dieter Rencken
Saturday, August 22nd 2009, 17:37 GMT

Williams has requested a release from its engine contract with Toyota for 2010, AUTOSPORT has learned, with the team now weighing up its options about which power-unit to run next year.

Although Williams has another year to run in its partnership with the Japanese manufacturer, moves are now being made for the deal to finish at the end of this year.

It is understood that Williams has already held talks with several car manufacturers about a supply for 2010 - with Renault emerging as favourites for a new partnership, although Mercedes-Benz could also be a possibility.

Team boss Frank Williams told AUTOSPORT that he expected a decision about the identity of the engine partner to be made imminently.

"It will be quite soon," he said. "We have got to find a way to put it into a car, haven't we?"

Although AUTOSPORT understands that talks have already opened with Renault about a potential supply deal for next year, Williams declined to comment on who was favourite if the team's deal with Toyota comes to an end.

"The paddock is full of gossip," he said when asked if Renault was his preferred option. "Tomorrow it might be Mercedes-Benz, and then the next day Ferrari – and I get a free car with it!"

Toyota has confirmed that it is 'flexible' to the possibility of Williams ending its deal early – providing it was not hurt financially by the move.

"It is a slightly complex situation," team president John Howett told AUTOSPORT. "The original document we gave the right for Williams to seek an alternative engine. The basis was that should they get a free engine in the future, perhaps from a new entrant manufacturer, then we would not be there to damage Williams in any way with purely contractual relations.

"Earlier this year they pushed us to sign an extension agreement covering specifically next year, which we have concluded, but they are asking, or seeking, to find an alternative supplier.

"Toyota's position is normally flexible. If they do not wish to take our engine, I don't really feel materially, provided we can reduce the stock and are not left with any liability, that we hold them to the contract."

Renault has been pushing hard to keep its customer supply operation in place for next year, and AUTOSPORT understands it has upped its efforts to try to convince current partner Red Bull Racing to extend its successful partnership.

Red Bull Racing is seriously considering a switch to Mercedes-Benz for next year, but a hard push from Renault chiefs to show its commitment to helping the Milton Keynes-based outfit appears to have put the French car manufacturer back in the frame again.

Christian Horner, team principal of Red Bull Racing, said his outfit would take its time before deciding what it would do.

"We have still got time on our hands," Horner told AUTOSPORT. "Renault is doing a great job for us, showing great support, but we are not in any rush."

[Dave B]

There's a halfway credible rumour that they want Mercedes engines for 2010 - and I've said many times that I don't expect Toyota to be in the sport next year.

[ioan]

Apparently RBR, Williams and Sauber are all shopping for the Mercedes engine, however only one of them will have it, hopefully it will be Sauber.

[jonny hurlock]

if Williams are back with Renault, OMG

[Saint Devote]

Williams to Renault has been the rumor for quite a while now.

It worked well before and at least Williams will be able to sign Hulkenberg and release that affirmative action driver Nakajima.

I think Meccahrome still builds and runs the engines for Renault and that company is owned by Flavio.

[ioan]

I think Meccahrome still builds and runs the engines for Renault and that company is owned by Flavio.

Not really.
The engines are conceived and built by Renault themselves in their Viry-Châtillon factory.

[52Paddy]

It would be nice to see Williams return to Renault power - mostly for nostalgic reasons admittedly, though I do think they stand more a chance competing with Renault engines than Toyotas. My one hope is that this doesn't turn into a row over contracts. Thankfully, Toyota don't seem to be stamping their foot down in terms of being an over-looking authority forcing them to abide by the contract. It opens up new driver line-up possibilities too, as Saint Devote has pointed out. While I don't expect to see Rosberg move any time soon, my opinion of Nakajima is that he has served his time long enough. He's not so much a bad driver overall, but can't seem to piece his occasional speed with a more relaxed or consistent driving style. Hulkenberg would be a worthy option, and particularly suitable if they instead decide on Mercedes engines (which I, incidentally, hope they don't) but I'd be ecstatic to see Adam Carroll get a chance that is gradually slipping into oblivion.

[ioan]

Thankfully, Toyota don't seem to be stamping their foot down in terms of being an over-looking authority forcing them to abide by the contract.

Looks like people at Toyota are real gentleman who don't want to get their hand dirty for nothing.

[Sonic]

This news, added to Toyota's reluctance to re-sign Trulli and their nose diving form suggests there are moves afoot to close the team.

[Dave B]

This news, added to Toyota's reluctance to re-sign Trulli and their nose diving form suggests there are moves afoot to close the team.
As indeed does this:


Toyota's future in Formula 1 is not guaranteed, AUTOSPORT has learned, with the signing off of the team's 2010 budget by its parent car company being postponed until later this year.

Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77918

[Saint Devote]

Not really.
The engines are conceived and built by Renault themselves in their Viry-Châtillon factory.

I think that is partially correct. As far as I know Meccachrome are still the Renault engine people and I do not know for the Renault team but for customer teams they do supply the Renault factory designed engines.

It makes it easier for them to service customer engines even if Renault were to withdraw from f1 as a team.

[ioan]

I think that is partially correct. As far as I know Meccachrome are still the Renault engine people and I do not know for the Renault team but for customer teams they do supply the Renault factory designed engines.

Every manufacturer had submitted ONE engine for homologation and both factory and customer teams get the same engine, designed and produced by Renault in the Viry Chatilon factory.

[UltimateDanGTR]

i think a pull out of toyota by williams reads: we don;t want nakajima anymore, he is useless!

I hope they get renault, williams renault, has that ring to it! I wonder why?........ :D

[ioan]

i think a pull out of toyota by williams reads: we don;t want nakajima anymore, he is useless!

Maybe they want Badoer instead! :D



I hope they get renault, williams renault, has that ring to it! I wonder why?........ :D

Yeah I hope too, it's been some times since the Williams' were having engine failures every race, Renault would put that right in no time! :p :

[ClarkFan]

This news, added to Toyota's reluctance to re-sign Trulli and their nose diving form suggests there are moves afoot to close the team.

Toyota is losing money for the first time in its history, plus they can now say that they stuck with F1 longer than Honda. I agree that it looks like they are edging towards the door market "egress."

ClarkFan

[ClarkFan]

Yeah I hope too, it's been some times since the Williams' were having engine failures every race, Renault would put that right in no time! :p :
Hmmm....but the engine has been quite reliable in Renault's own cars (the cars haven't been fast, but they haven't blown up). Maybe the issue has been with some part of Red Bull's implementation.

Perhaps they feed it too much caffeine and it just gets overstimulated....... ;)

ClarkFan

[ioan]

Hmmm....but the engine has been quite reliable in Renault's own cars (the cars haven't been fast, but they haven't blown up). Maybe the issue has been with some part of Red Bull's implementation.

Perhaps they feed it too much caffeine and it just gets overstimulated....... ;)

ClarkFan

IMO Newey should remember that a F1 car has an engine, unlike those boats he dreams about, and an engine needs an airflow to it's radiators.

[Robinho]

i'd assume they think they have a better option - Toyota aren't going anywhere quickly and are giving no signs they are sticking around.

plus if they can unseat Nakajima too it might be a very good option.

it pays to sort it now rather than be left in the cold when Toyota take their ball home

[ClarkFan]

IMO Newey should remember that a F1 car has an engine, unlike those boats he dreams about, and an engine needs an airflow to it's radiators.
But that increases drag and is so aesthically unpleasing!

:p

ClarkFan

[ioan]

But that increases drag and is so aesthically unpleasing!

:p

ClarkFan

In that case maybe I should sell RedBull the design of a needle for half the amount they are paying Newey! :D

[UltimateDanGTR]

Yeah I hope too, it's been some times since the Williams' were having engine failures every race, Renault would put that right in no time! :p :

I think thats just a design or installation problem on the red bull, because the actual renault team engines have been fine. so if williams would go to renault, id think they would be fine ;)

[christophulus]

Strange decision really, Williams have their own KERS system so that can't be a motivation, and I thought the engines were broadly similar nowadays? The only logical reason to change is to get rid of Nakajima, which I think they need to do if they're losing Rosberg at the end of the year and promoting Hulkenberg from GP2.

Does seem like Toyota are losing interest in the sport somewhat.

[jens]

For the sake of Williams, I just hope they won't opt for Cosworths, because this would throw all the potential they are showing now into the bin. The engine is underdeveloped and could be unreliable as well.

The rumours about Renault make sense, especially if RBR is looking to switch to Mercedes, so Renault might be looking for a new customer team. As for Mercedes, it looks like almost all private teams are aiming to get this engine, so it's going to be more difficult for Williams to get that one. But what about Williams-Ferrari? :p :

[ioan]

The only logical reason to change is to get rid of Nakajima, which I think they need to do if they're losing Rosberg at the end of the year and promoting Hulkenberg from GP2.

:?:

Not sure I follow your logic there. They will run only one car next season?

[52Paddy]

The only logical reason to change is to get rid of Nakajima, which I think they need to do if they're losing Rosberg at the end of the year

Losing Rosberg? :eek: Where did this come from? :confused:

[jens]

The only logical reason to change is to get rid of Nakajima, which I think they need to do if they're losing Rosberg at the end of the year and promoting Hulkenberg from GP2.


By the way, Williams can get rid of Nakajima if they wanted to, but then they would have to pay for engines like they would need to pay for any other engine. Opting for free engines (and also getting a driver in addition) has really been just a financial decision by Williams. Another matter might be here that Renault or whoever may offer their engines at lower price than Toyota (without Naka).

I don't think the key is Nakajima here, it has to be about something else (Toyota's withdrawal?), since Williams has seemed quite satisfied with Toyota partnership so far.

[christophulus]

:?:

Not sure I follow your logic there. They will run only one car next season?

Yeah, I didn't explain my point that well. :p

If they lose Rosberg to McLaren (likely), and promote Hulkenberg as has been rumoured, that's Nakajima and Hulkenberg in 2010 - pretty weak line up for a team that is supposedly aiming for race wins. So by removing Nakajima and therefore pulling out of the Toyota deal they're free to go for Heidfeld/Kubica/Kovalainen etc etc as a proven driver AND promote a decent rookie.

In short - if they aren't dropping Nakajima then I don't see the point in changing engine suppliers.

[ioan]

Yeah, I didn't explain my point that well. :p

If they lose Rosberg to McLaren (likely), and promote Hulkenberg as has been rumoured, that's Nakajima and Hulkenberg in 2010 - pretty weak line up for a team that is supposedly aiming for race wins. So by removing Nakajima and therefore pulling out of the Toyota deal they're free to go for Heidfeld/Kubica/Kovalainen etc etc as a proven driver AND promote a decent rookie.

In short - if they aren't dropping Nakajima then I don't see the point in changing engine suppliers.

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense, but having 2 new drivers isn't very good either.
I also doubt that Heidfeld wants to go back to Williams after their fall out.
Kubica might not want to work with people like FW and PH, as he's a very impatient person.
Maybe Kovalainen will fit in well at Williams.

[jens]

Maybe Kovalainen will fit in well at Williams.

My feeling is exactly the opposite. Williams is traditionally known as a team, who "does not care about drivers" and Kovalainen seems like a bit of a softer character, who needs team support to unveil his potential. Another "softer character" like Frentzen didn't exactly shine in Williams environment. Kovalainen would be wise to try to opt for another team if possible.

[ioan]

My feeling is exactly the opposite. Williams is traditionally known as a team, who "does not care about drivers" and Kovalainen seems like a bit of a softer character, who needs team support to unveil his potential. Another "softer character" like Frentzen didn't exactly shine in Williams environment. Kovalainen would be wise to try to opt for another team if possible.

Kubica needs nannying too or otherwise he never stops whining when the car is less than OK.
Heidfeld is strong but he already had a fall out with Williams and will probably try to secure his place in the current team if Sauber manages the take over.
Thus it leaves Kovalainen, Trulli and maybe Kimi (whom if will not drive for Ferrari IMO will go to WRC).

[ratonmacias]

whatever it takes to lose Nakajima he is being trounced by Rosberg.

naka should at least have 10 points or so.

my dream as a williams fan would be renault engine rosberg and kubica with the flywheel kers working.

[ClarkFan]

My feeling is exactly the opposite. Williams is traditionally known as a team, who "does not care about drivers" and Kovalainen seems like a bit of a softer character, who needs team support to unveil his potential. Another "softer character" like Frentzen didn't exactly shine in Williams environment. Kovalainen would be wise to try to opt for another team if possible.
Well, perhaps Kimi could be an option for Williams if he negotiates out of Ferrari. While he can have issues with motivation, he certainly doesn't need coddling - he shows up, drives fast and goes home. Williams may want someone to help sort cars with him, though.

ClarkFan

[truefan72]

It worked well before and at least Williams will be able to sign Hulkenberg and release that affirmative action driver Nakajima.


what an insulting statement to nakajima and the affimative action program which you cleary don't understand.
please don't bring politics here and please use the correct comparisons in terms of nakajima. IMO he is easily a top 10 in terms of pace and if his car held up better, would probably scored some good points. As' I ve said, it seems like sport to take jibes at nakajima and if you actually paid any attention to his on track skills and driving this year, you'd know that he is a solid F1 driver.

sorry to disappoint you, but I think that next years line up will be Nakajima and hulkenberg.

[AJP]

If Williams do manage to secure a different engine for next year,
I would think that Hulkenberg and Kubica to be in the race seats..

[DexDexter]

For the sake of Williams, I just hope they won't opt for Cosworths, because this would throw all the potential they are showing now into the bin. The engine is underdeveloped and could be unreliable as well.

The rumours about Renault make sense, especially if RBR is looking to switch to Mercedes, so Renault might be looking for a new customer team. As for Mercedes, it looks like almost all private teams are aiming to get this engine, so it's going to be more difficult for Williams to get that one. But what about Williams-Ferrari? :p :

Williams-Renault sounds awfully familiar. Didn't they have few wins together back in the old days? :)

[JasonD]

Every manufacturer had submitted ONE engine for homologation and both factory and customer teams get the same engine, designed and produced by Renault in the Viry Chatilon factory.

Wrong. Renault design, Mecachrome do assembly.

[ioan]

Wrong. Renault design, Mecachrome do assembly.

Proof?

[JasonD]

Proof?

Sure, no problem.



Renault Sport awards a 3-year contract to Mecachrome for the manufacture and assembly of F1 engines (http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/November2007/22/c3387.html)

MONTREAL, Nov. 22 /CNW Telbec/ - Mecachrome International (TSX : MCH) announced today that it renewed its contract with Renault Sport, on an exclusive basis, for the manufacture and assembly of Formula One engines developed by Renault Sport. The contract is for three years, beginning with the 2008 F1 season until the end of the 2010 season. Renault Sport and Mecachrome have been collaborating for many years in the high performance motor sports sector, particularly in the Formula One World Championship, and have developed a long-term partnership based on their respective know-how and experience.


If you have more up-to-date information then share it.

[Roamy]

if Williams are back with Renault, OMG

Yea now bring back JV and you may have a chance again :p

[Roamy]

whatever it takes to lose Nakajima he is being trounced by Rosberg.

naka should at least have 10 points or so.

my dream as a williams fan would be renault engine rosberg and kubica with the flywheel kers working.

Actually JV developing and pushing Rosberg would be where I would go. For some reason I am just thinking Kub is no where in car development. Heidfield comes out of nowhere and kicks his ass all the time and I think it is set-up where Kub doesn't have it.

[ioan]

Sure, no problem.

If you have more up-to-date information then share it.

Thanks, great info! :up:
I was not aware of this, and no I don't have newer info. :)

[ratonmacias]

Actually JV developing and pushing Rosberg would be where I would go. For some reason I am just thinking Kub is no where in car development. Heidfield comes out of nowhere and kicks his ass all the time and I think it is set-up where Kub doesn't have it.

man im over JV and all the drama if only he was japanese or german or brazilian. JV's only fault is that his country is pàying for his seat trough sponsorship.

he was 9 to 12 vs Midfield and he gets chopped. now naka is 0 to 29.5 and nothing happens.

plus JV and HEAD would be fighting jon and kate from jon and kate +8 head says jv messed up but how come frentzen was nowhere obbeying head if jv was messing up how come frentzen was not able to beat jv?

[DexDexter]

Actually JV developing and pushing Rosberg would be where I would go. For some reason I am just thinking Kub is no where in car development. Heidfield comes out of nowhere and kicks his ass all the time and I think it is set-up where Kub doesn't have it.

You gotta let JV go. :)