Vettel with RedBull untill 2011 + option for 2012

[ioan]

Vettel's form, and the promise shown by Red Bull, has convinced the two parties to extend their deal further - with his new contract running until 2011. There is also an option on him for 2012.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77808

Might not be the best move for his future as a F1 driver.

[christophulus]

Not many alternatives really. Red Bull arguably reacted the best to the new regulations, they're well funded and after signing up Webber too they have a stable driver line-up.

Plus they're looking at Merc power for next year, and if Newey stays too I'd call it a sensible idea to hang around!

[F1boat]

Another top-Mercedes team? Wow.

[woody2goody]

I'm surprised they don't go to Ferrari like STR. It's always seemed like a good engine.

Vettel is wise to stay put. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

[Sonic]

Might not be the best move for his future as a F1 driver.

I'm with you on this one my friend.

No matter which way you cut it Red Bull are a customer team. Only rarely does a customer team outperform their suppliers and even then it is short lived.

It is all too easy to become the forgotten man in this sport and when normal service resumes and Ferrari, McLaren et all return to the front en mass Vettel could become the might of been driver like Jean Alesi.

[ioan]

I'm with you on this one my friend.

No matter which way you cut it Red Bull are a customer team. Only rarely does a customer team outperform their suppliers and even then it is short lived.

It is all too easy to become the forgotten man in this sport and when normal service resumes and Ferrari, McLaren et all return to the front en mass Vettel could become the might of been driver like Jean Alesi.

He's already better than Alesi ever was but that's what I thought too.
McLaren are already back in terms of speed and Ferrari will not be pedaling behind the winning guy for to long either.
Also the day Newey decides to call it a day RBR will be done for good.

[Sonic]

.....the day Newey decides to call it a day RBR will be done for good.

Agreed. Newey has been making ever louder grumblings about leaving the sport for years. The new regs have given him something to get his teeth into but how much longer will that fire burn?

This is the problem building an entire team around one man (or in this case two teams) as Williams found to their cost.

[wedge]

He's already better than Alesi ever was but that's what I thought too.

Alesi never had the best car

[jens]

I'm with you on this one my friend.

No matter which way you cut it Red Bull are a customer team. Only rarely does a customer team outperform their suppliers and even then it is short lived.


Before this year I thought in a similar way too - that customer teams will find it difficult to make a decisive breakthrough and teams like RBR will find it difficult to reach ultimate top level (for instance in 2008 factory teams took all Top5 positions as a "proof").

But this view has been changed and the reason IMO is engine freeze. In the past it was usual that factory team gets the newest engine upgrades and customer teams for understandable reasons struggled to keep up. But with engine freeze they don't have such disadvantage. Hence I suppose current era of F1 is the best opportunity for customer teams to shine, provided they have enough budget (they don't have that financial so-called factory support) as they don't have any technical disadvantages.

I don't know about Newey's longterm plans, but I'm optimistic about Red Bull's prospects beyond this season. This confirmation should silence rumours about Alonso-Vettel Ferrari line-up from 2011 onwards for some time.

[emporer_k]

It's the move I'd be making if I were in his shoes.

[ioan]

Alesi never had the best car

Vettel did win only one race out of 3 in the best car.

[Sonic]

In retrospect I have to say I can't think where he might go in the short term.

No seat at Ferrari or McLaren. Renault would be a step down as of this moment in time and Williams couldn't afford him. That leaves a punt on a Toyota or one of the new boys (totally pointless), so a ride in a Newey car can't be bad for next season.

But, if it were me (I wish), I'd have signed a single year extension with options so that I could be available for a Ferrari seat in 2011.

[christophulus]

I think it's a sensible move for him. As mentioned, Ferrari and McLaren don't really have a vacancy, and even if they did he'd be on equal footing with his teammate. Who knows, by signing long term he could do what Schumacher did in the 90s and build the team around him, especially if the cost reductions put everyone on a more equal footing.

[jens]

As Schumacher has been mentioned here, I have to mention that Red Bull starts increasingly reminding be that former Benetton team. In both cases a big company (not a car company for a change!) bought a more or less midfield team (Jaguar and Toleman respectively) and started building it up and improving on a consistent basis, which finally enabled them to reach the top level. Benetton proved to be no fluke and stayed among that so-called Big Four for quite a long time. RBR may establish themselves as a serious team for many years to come as well.

[CNR]

the other thing to remember is that he was a red bull kid like lewis was a mclaren kid


Vettel has been supported by Red Bull's young drivers program since the age of 12.

[wedge]

Vettel did win only one race out of 3 in the best car.

2 out of three in the best car.



The next Michele Alboreto?

[ioan]

2 out of three in the best car.


Feel free to expand on this supposition.

[truefan72]

what are people harping about here

RBR is easily a top 3 team/car right now and should improve next year. I guess winning races and challenging for the WDC are really not the "best move " for the driver lol.

It is a sensible choice for him' probably financially as well. As long as he drives well, RBR will be a lock for the first 6 spots on the grid and podiums. Add to that a more powerful Mercedes engine and they will be even closer in ANOTHER title run next year. (but the current Renault engine is doing the job IMO)

[wedge]

Feel free to expand on this supposition.

China 2009 - best car, RBR 1-2 finish

Britain 2009 - best car, RBR 1-2 finish

[truefan72]

I think it's a sensible move for him. As mentioned, Ferrari and McLaren don't really have a vacancy, and even if they did he'd be on equal footing with his teammate. Who knows, by signing long term he could do what Schumacher did in the 90s and build the team around him, especially if the cost reductions put everyone on a more equal footing.


err, I think he is on equal footing with Webber. In fact Horner just said so this morning in an interview with BBC. Besides, it's Webber who is leading/beating his teammate right now. RBR will never do what Bennetton and Ferrari did back in the day. In today's racing world and economy, you simply can't build a team around one guy anymore. I think Ferrari themselves proved that you can have 2 highly competitive guys and still challenge for the WDC and win the WDC, while still winning the WCC.

Save Hamilton's mishap in China in 2007, he would have won the WDC and Maclaren pretty much won the WCC without the spygate drama. This year RBR or Brawn are going to win the WDC & WCC and both teams have evenly matched drivers. The only team that is completely built around 1 driver is Renault, and we all know how that is working out for them.

[Saint Devote]

I cant see where it is a questionable choice.

The alternatives would be Ferrari or Mclaren realistically and given that he has an assured funding, Adrian Newey - unlikely that he signed not knowing of Newey is to remain with the team for several more years and, is the de facto team leader, where is the problem?

At Ferrari he would it seems have Alonso and at Mclaren Hamilton.

Vettel has decided well.

[Ari]

I agree that he's made the right choice here. While things are harmonious at Red Bull why move?

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. As in.... he knows where he is and what he has with RBR so why go running off hoping for a better seat in another team. Last I checked there's no Ferrari drive at the moment so no good dreaming of one.

As for Macca they are still nowhere near proven. Yes it looks good at the moment but for now they have one race this year, which was a tight track, where they had pace and showed form. No gurantees for the next 5 or however many races.

I also agree that F1 cannot work with one man teams in todays modern age. Vettel and Webber bring a healthy rivalry which pushes one another. True that as a one-man-team Jenson is effectively able to acquire more points as Boobs is effectively #2 but I'm not convinced that's healthy for building performance.

It's one thing to talk about Ferrari and Macca and that theyre coming back to the top but how long will it take? F1 just went through a technical revolution.... not evolution. In this instance it's the brains in the paddock that make it happen not cheque books.

Remember, last year Newey was told he was not allowed to develop the double diffuser so this year RBR bolted one on. With a full redevelopment perhaps they can do even more next year.

I think RBR is the right place for now. They should be up there for at least another couple years. Ultimately we might see Kimi move aside for Vettel in a couple years..... but that's a couple years away!

[ioan]

China 2009 - best car, RBR 1-2 finish

Make that best drivers as Button isn't a rain driver.
Until Britain the BrawnGP car was the better car on track.


Britain 2009 - best car, RBR 1-2 finish

This I agree.

[ioan]

In today's racing world and economy, you simply can't build a team around one guy anymore.

You should tell that to McLaren.

[Sonic]

You should tell that to McLaren.

And renault....

[ioan]

And renault....

Right!
How could I forget the Flav team! :confused:

[Sonic]

Well we'd all forget about Flav if we could!! ;)

[wedge]

Make that best drivers as Button isn't a rain driver.
Until Britain the BrawnGP car was the better car on track.

Webber passed Button in the high speed turns like a hot knife through butter.

Vettel went off in Malaysia so I guess he isn't a rain driver :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Webber passed Button in the high speed turns like a hot knife through butter.

As I said Button is no good in the rain, and your example supports that perfectly.

[jens]

Unfortunately I have to disagree with Ioan's notion this time. Button has proved to be a very fast wet weather driver throughout his career and in the same Chinese GP he finished ahead of no-one else than team-mate Barrichello, who also has had a reputation of a fast rain driver.

[ioan]

Unfortunately I have to disagree with Ioan's notion this time. Button has proved to be a very fast wet weather driver throughout his career ...

Any good examples where he did something great in the wet?
I'm trying hard but I can hardly remember anything special from Button even in the dry let alone in wet races. :\
I fear you are mistaking him with MS or SV.

[wedge]

Any good examples where he did something great in the wet?
I'm trying hard but I can hardly remember anything special from Button even in the dry let alone in wet races. :\
I fear you are mistaking him with MS or SV.

Button won Hungary 2006. On that day he was Alonso's nearest rival and rapidly catching him.

Button passed Hamilton in Bahrain, what did Vettel do?

Vettel choked in Turkey by going off on lap 1 in the lead.

[jens]

Any good examples where he did something great in the wet?
I'm trying hard but I can hardly remember anything special from Button even in the dry let alone in wet races. :\
I fear you are mistaking him with MS or SV.

Well, let's start from the beginning.

2000 Germany. Started from 22nd, but rose to 4th by the end in messy conditions.
2003 USA. Was leading the race before his engine blew up.
2005 Belgium. Third. Maybe not gonna say much, but a solid drive. :p :
2007 Japan. Sixth in qualifying.
2007 China. Fifth in the race.

And that 2006 win has already been mentioned here.

Obviously may not have been as spectacular as Vettel or M. Schumacher or even Hamilton for instance, but quite fine nonetheless.

[wedge]

2003 USA. Was leading the race before his engine blew up.


IIRC, Button was comfortably in the lead in the wet but was overtaken by Schumi as the tracked dried and then his engine blew

[ioan]

Button won Hungary 2006. On that day he was Alonso's nearest rival and rapidly catching him.

Button passed Hamilton in Bahrain, what did Vettel do?

Vettel choked in Turkey by going off on lap 1 in the lead.

Should I make a list of how many times button choked in his long career?
You found 3 examples of so so performances to support a guy with 9 years in F1?!

There are more brilliant drives for for 3/4 of teh grid to talk about than what Button managed.

Up to the British GP the BrawnGP car was teh best out there, yet they were beaten in China, fair and square by TWO better drivers.

Let's be honest both Vettel and Webber are at least one level above Button in terms of driving skills in dry conditions and 2 notches above in the wet.

I always supported Button when he went against JV at BAR Honda, but hey I have to acknowledge that he is average at best when everything isn't 100% in his favor, just watch the last few races if you don't believe me and pay attention to his car-pit radio conversations.

[jens]

IIRC, Button was comfortably in the lead in the wet but was overtaken by Schumi as the tracked dried and then his engine blew

IIRC Button may still have been in the lead before blow-up, but yes, Schumacher would have passed him sooner or later. Nonetheless his career first podium was clearly on the cards and I remember Button giving an interview after a race, how he couldn't believe to be so unlucky never to achieve a podium in F1. Well, that luck has changed quite a bit by now 6 years later. :)

[ioan]

Well, let's start from the beginning.

2000 Germany. Started from 22nd, but rose to 4th by the end in messy conditions.
2003 USA. Was leading the race before his engine blew up.
2005 Belgium. Third. Maybe not gonna say much, but a solid drive. :p :
2007 Japan. Sixth in qualifying.
2007 China. Fifth in the race.

And that 2006 win has already been mentioned here.

Obviously may not have been as spectacular as Vettel or M. Schumacher or even Hamilton for instance, but quite fine nonetheless.

2006 he won because other took each other out.
2003, your memory is wrong.

That leaves us with not even a podium in a real wet race.
Good try but you should admit that it is way to little for a such a long career like Button's.

[wedge]

Let's be honest both Vettel and Webber are at least one level above Button in terms of driving skills in dry conditions and 2 notches above in the wet.


They're about the same, IMHO. They just have different strengths and weaknesses.

[Roamy]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77808

Might not be the best move for his future as a F1 driver.

His only option are Mclaren and ferrari and with Ham and Alonso there he has done the absolute best thing for his career

[ioan]

I certainly hope so as I think he is worthy of a title in the future, it's just that I'm not convinced about RedBull

[Roamy]

The problem is given the options what would you do?? possible gamble on brawn and toyota - but red bull has the bucks and adrian has the track record.
so hell i don't even know if i would leave for any team period.

[Garry Walker]

Make that best drivers as Button isn't a rain driver.
Until Britain the BrawnGP car was the better car on track.


:rotflmao:




Let's be honest both Vettel and Webber are at least one level above Button in terms of driving skills in dry conditions and 2 notches above in the wet.


Nothing like a good argument supported by facts :rotflmao:


Hopefully Red Bull will suck bigtime in the next few years. I have to say, I quite enjoyed seeing Vettel have such a bad day today, it was extremely amusing.