Spa 2009

[gloomyDAY]

I wonder who will get banned. :D

[callum122]

FIA like a close championship. So Jenson gets a 1 race ban for excessive wear to the under body of the Brawn, post race. :cheese:

[gloomyDAY]

I'm just looking forward to Hamilton's 25 second penalty after winning the race.

[gloomyDAY]

Let's boogie.....

http://img.funnyanimatedgifs.net/img/1675-tv-conan-andrew-wk-dance.gif

:p

[52Paddy]

What a great track Spa is. I'm really looking forward to this one. Brawn will struggle if Spa boasts its usual cool climate next weekend. Though if it rains, I think they have a stronger chance of challenging for the win. If Badoer is taking the wheel of the Ferrari again, this will be the chance to prove to us what he really is/isn't made of. I expect he will be quicker than he was today, and even mix it with the midfield pack. Points would be a bit optimistic in my view but we shall see what pans out come Friday.

Vettel will have a dilemma on his hands from now on, given that he has 2 fresh engines remaining. If he doesn't perform well at Spa, I can see the title chase becoming a three-horse race.

[Saint Devote]

What a great track Spa is. I'm really looking forward to this one. Brawn will struggle if Spa boasts its usual cool climate next weekend. Though if it rains, I think they have a stronger chance of challenging for the win. If Badoer is taking the wheel of the Ferrari again, this will be the chance to prove to us what he really is/isn't made of. I expect he will be quicker than he was today, and even mix it with the midfield pack. Points would be a bit optimistic in my view but we shall see what pans out come Friday.

Vettel will have a dilemma on his hands from now on, given that he has 2 fresh engines remaining. If he doesn't perform well at Spa, I can see the title chase becoming a three-horse race.

Guardedly, Brawn have solved their problem. During the first haof of the season the team were able to do well regardless of temperatures and that dropped off dramatically.

So, I think while they may not win in Spa, they can be expected to do well and right now staying ahead of Webber is Button's first priority other than Barrichello.

[woody2goody]

Spa's a really good track. I really hope I'm not working on Sunday as I've already missed the last 2 Belgian GPs!

I think it'll be a great battle. Look for Kimi and Lewis to be fighting for the win again I reckon.

KERS is going to dominate for sure. I'm going to back Luca for a point or two just because of this. If we don't see Lewis, Heikki and Kimi in the top 3 and Luca in Q3 I'll be really surprised. KERS should give such a big advantage there.

[Ranger]

Kimi for the victory. :up:

Hopefully Red Bull have slapped themselves back together.

[jimakos]

Kimi for the victory. :up:

Hope Kimi can make something good in this race.
With 2 pondiums in a row "ice-man" is very competitive ;)

[ioan]

Don't get your hopes high, McLaren is back and very very fast too!
Also RedBull will be going fast at Spa, most we can expect is a podium from Kimi and another last place from Badoer!

[jimakos]

Don't get your hopes high, McLaren is back and very very fast too!
Also RedBull will be going fast at Spa, most we can expect is a podium from Kimi and another last place from Badoer!

Kimi can't take this race?
Don't be so negative with Badoer,we'll see if he worth something.
I remind that is ferrari's fault and not Badoer's

[ioan]

Kimi can't take this race?
Don't be so negative with Badoer,we'll see if he worth something.
I remind that is ferrari's fault and not Badoer's

The decisions is Ferrari's fault, but he could have said no and not embarrass himself however I suppose he thought he can do it.

[jimakos]

The decisions is Ferrari's fault, but he could have said no and not embarrass himself however I suppose he thought he can do it.
Agree,he could have said no but the challenge was very big...
In his position and I have said YES :p

[F1boat]

I hope that Red Bull will not be as strong as many experts think as I don't want them to win. I keep my fingers crossed for Jenson and Kimi, but realistically I think that the race will be battle between Red Bull and McLaren Mercedes.
woody2goody, why do you think that KERS will be so important at Spa?

[ioan]

woody2goody, why do you think that KERS will be so important at Spa?

Because they go flat from La Source all the way to Les Combes (about 1/3rd of the length of the track). If they use the right gearing and not hit the rev limiter the KERS cars may raw most benefit from KERS use at this track, even more so than in Monza.

[F1boat]

ioan, what do you think will be the gain from the KERS in Spa and what in Monza?

[ioan]

ioan, what do you think will be the gain from the KERS in Spa and what in Monza?

Impossible for me to say it without having a lot of info about the car set-ups the teams will use.

[Knock-on]

Impossible for me to say it without having a lot of info about the car set-ups the teams will use.

Come on, that's never stopped you in the past ;)

[ioan]

Come on, that's never stopped you in the past ;)

I'm getting older! :p :

[Tazio]

Best venue of the season IMHO
It should be close between McLaren, RB, Brawn.


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/09/04_f1belgium.jpg

[BDunnell]

Come on, that's never stopped you in the past ;)

Very good.

[ShiftingGears]

Because they go flat from La Source all the way to Les Combes (about 1/3rd of the length of the track). If they use the right gearing and not hit the rev limiter the KERS cars may raw most benefit from KERS use at this track, even more so than in Monza.

Don't forget the run from Stavelot to the Bus Stop. That's about a third of the circuit and they don't lift there, either.

The non-KERS cars are going to have to find a hell of a lot of time between Les Combes and Malmedy if one of them is to win the race.

[ioan]

Don't forget the run from Malmedy to the Bus Stop.

I suppose you mean from Stavelot to the Bus stop?!


The non-KERS cars are going to have to find a hell of a lot of time between Les Combes and Malmedy if one is to win the race.

Yep, that's why I believe that McLaren will do great as their car looks aerodynamically sound now and they have KERS too.

This time I believe that the KERS cars can allow themselves to start as low as 3rd row and they will still be first come Les Combes.

[ShiftingGears]

I suppose you mean from Stavelot to the Bus stop?!

Whoops. That's what happens when you name corners after towns that the circuit no longer runs through :p :




Yep, that's why I believe that McLaren will do great as their car looks aerodynamically sound now and they have KERS too.

This time I believe that the KERS cars can allow themselves to start as low as 3rd row and they will still be first come Les Combes.

Yep. Can't really imagine McLaren or Ferrari not winning, without rain.

[ioan]

Yep. Can't really imagine McLaren or Ferrari not winning, without rain.

Depends a lot on the pace of the other cars and how the tires perform, I'm not totally writing off the Red Bulls cause IMO Vettel will be going out all guns blazing like in Silverstone now that he has pretty much no chances to the title anymore, even if he will have to rely on pit passing to get in front after a not so extraordinary start.

[ShiftingGears]

Depends a lot on the pace of the other cars and how the tires perform, I'm not totally writing off the Red Bulls cause IMO Vettel will be going out all guns blazing like in Silverstone now that he has pretty much no chances to the title anymore, even if he will have to rely on pit passing to get in front after a not so extraordinary start.

Vettels and Webbers pace relative to each other in races such as Britain and Germany were much more similar than the results suggest, due to one getting baulked by slower traffic in each race respectively.

I think both the Red Bull drivers will go all guns blazing at Spa. They can hardly afford not to.

[ioan]

Vettels and Webbers pace relative to each other in races such as Britain and Germany were much more similar than the results suggest, due to one getting baulked by slower traffic in each race respectively.

I think both the Red Bull drivers will go all guns blazing at Spa. They can hardly afford not to.

I think you are right.
They are both very good drivers who deserve to get good results, pity their best until now comes in an unreliable car.
This is why I'm not so sure that Vettel did right to sign up for 2+1 years as Newey has a history of designing fast but very fragile race cars, Kimi's years in teh McLaren looked a lot like what Seb is getting right now.

[F1boat]

I currently can not write off Brawn, especially if the conditions are mixed.

[Knock-on]

McLaren have put so much development into KERS and are finally reaping some rewards now they have sorted their chassis out.

Question is, will they be compromised next year if they remove it.

Who was the only team not to sign up to "No KERS"?

[ioan]

Who was the only team not to sign up to "No KERS"?

I think it was BMW, again.

[ShiftingGears]

I think you are right.
They are both very good drivers who deserve to get good results, pity their best until now comes in an unreliable car.
This is why I'm not so sure that Vettel did right to sign up for 2+1 years as Newey has a history of designing fast but very fragile race cars, Kimi's years in teh McLaren looked a lot like what Seb is getting right now.

Even if the Red Bull is unreliable I think it's the best option he has at the moment.

I think all drivers would prefer something fast and unreliable as opposed to something with no chance of winning without the technical failures of other cars.

[ioan]

Even if the Red Bull is unreliable I think it's the best option he has at the moment.

Yes it is, but why didn't he go for a 1 year contract or a even 1+1 option?
It was his own choice as he has no manager, he does it all for himself.

Ferrari probably signed Alonso to drive alongside Felipe next year and they are trying to struck a deal to get rid of Kimi (apparently Ferrari offered to pay half of his yearly wage but his management are asking for a full wage pay out).
In this situation what if, God forbid, Felipe can't make it back for some time (I hope this won't be the case)?

Or what about that 2nd seat in the McLaren (not that I'm a fan of the idea that he drives for them) who are showing great speed and exceptional developement pace compared to RedBull, not to mention reliability.

I feel he went for the millions, Austrian TV are reporting 10 milions + 5 milions in bonuses per season.

[Garry Walker]

I feel he went for the millions, Austrian TV are reporting 10 milions + 5 milions in bonuses per season.

I read he will be getting somewhere around 4-5 millions per season.

[jens]

Red Bull should be better than on the last two circuits. Whether that's enough for a win, remains to be seen. McLaren is a bit of a questionmark, but they should have improved in fast flowing corners too. Ferrari could be on podium again, but I'm not sure they are quick enough to win on merit... yet. Brawn could be quick, but temperatures at Spa should be lower and BGP001 is stronger on circuits, which demand more mechanical grip.

All in all I think RBR should have a good shot at the win, dry or rain. And they badly need it to keep title hopes alive.

[Tazio]

Hamilton claims McLaren lack the downforce needed to continue their form at Spa!


“I don't think we'll be as competitive as we've been at the last few races, because Spa is a circuit where you need a lot of downforce,” he told his official website.
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=46684&PO=46684

[Knock-on]

I think it was BMW, again.

Well, they're fooked anyway so what does it matter :/

[ioan]

Hamilton claims McLaren lack the downforce needed to continue their form at Spa!


http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=46684&PO=46684

Don't believe him! ;)

[52Paddy]

Guardedly, Brawn have solved their problem. During the first haof of the season the team were able to do well regardless of temperatures and that dropped off dramatically.

So, I think while they may not win in Spa, they can be expected to do well and right now staying ahead of Webber is Button's first priority other than Barrichello.

One thing I noticed is that Button's great performances this year all came from good qualifying positions.

Australia, Malaysia, Spain and Monaco were won from pole. Three of them races were hot, and the other was a red flagged (Webber would have gotten the edge in Malaysia had the ruling been in his favour, so I believe he would have went on to win, or beat Button anyway.) His other wins in Bahrain (from 4th) and Turkey (from 2nd) were also hot races and decent enough starting positions.

Now, take China. 4th on the grid, wet race, finishes 3rd. A great performance but beaten by Vettel, who won. At Silverstone, he qualified 6th and finished there in overcast conditions. In Germany, also overcast, he dropped from 3rd on the grid to finish 5th. In Hungary, which was actually warm enough, he only qualified 8th and could manage to finish no better than 7th. And most recently, 5th on the grid in a warm Valencia leaves him finishing the race 7th.

From this, its not far-fetched to deduce that Button needs a good qualifying position to win. And, the cool tracks are clearly still affecting his cars progress. In Spa, he will probably have cool conditions which will affect him getting a good grid position. And then there's his lack of KERS for the fast bits. I honestly can't imagine him having a good race.

Now, lets look at Barrichello. Only 1 win, coming from 3rd on the grid. Australia, qualified 2nd, finished there. Malaysia, in difficult conditions, finished 5th from 4th place on the grid. In China, with rain, he qualified 5th and finished 4th. In Bahrain, he only qualified 6th but finished 5th. Spain, 3rd in quali, 2nd in race. The same for Monaco. Then retires in Turkey.

So, at this point, Barrichello can't match Button when Button is winning. But, he's just as good when the temperatures don't favour the car. And, having not qualified as well as Button in the first half of the year, maybe he has more experience of dealing with more traffic around him in the opening phase of the race. Now, to the second part of the year and its a different story.

Barrichello manages to put the car 2nd at Silverstone and finish third, in cloudy conditions. In Germany he qualifies 2nd, and finishes 6th after a botchy pit stop. Realistically, he could have expected 3rd anyway. In Hungary he's 13th on grid and 10th in the race - obviously having to contend with Massa's freak accident. He was less than a second of Q2 pole time despite that.

So, what's my point? Well I don't believe Brawn have solved their problem with their lack of mechanical grip on cooler tracks. And, it appears to me that Barrichello has the upper hand in those situations. If Button and Barrichello both fail to make an impact in quali, I expect to see Barrichello get the upper hand over his team-mate. After all, I think he's done a better job since the Turkish GP - the turning point of the year? - but I don't expect either Brawn car to beat the McLarens or Red Bulls.

[ioan]

One thing I noticed is that Button's great performances this year all came from good qualifying positions.

Australia, Malaysia, Spain and Monaco were won from pole. Three of them races were hot, and the other was a red flagged (Webber would have gotten the edge in Malaysia had the ruling been in his favour, so I believe he would have went on to win, or beat Button anyway.) His other wins in Bahrain (from 4th) and Turkey (from 2nd) were also hot races and decent enough starting positions.

Now, take China. 4th on the grid, wet race, finishes 3rd. A great performance but beaten by Vettel, who won. At Silverstone, he qualified 6th and finished there in overcast conditions. In Germany, also overcast, he dropped from 3rd on the grid to finish 5th. In Hungary, which was actually warm enough, he only qualified 8th and could manage to finish no better than 7th. And most recently, 5th on the grid in a warm Valencia leaves him finishing the race 7th.

From this, its not far-fetched to deduce that Button needs a good qualifying position to win. And, the cool tracks are clearly still affecting his cars progress. In Spa, he will probably have cool conditions which will affect him getting a good grid position. And then there's his lack of KERS for the fast bits. I honestly can't imagine him having a good race.

Now, lets look at Barrichello. Only 1 win, coming from 3rd on the grid. Australia, qualified 2nd, finished there. Malaysia, in difficult conditions, finished 5th from 4th place on the grid. In China, with rain, he qualified 5th and finished 4th. In Bahrain, he only qualified 6th but finished 5th. Spain, 3rd in quali, 2nd in race. The same for Monaco. Then retires in Turkey.

So, at this point, Barrichello can't match Button when Button is winning. But, he's just as good when the temperatures don't favour the car. And, having not qualified as well as Button in the first half of the year, maybe he has more experience of dealing with more traffic around him in the opening phase of the race. Now, to the second part of the year and its a different story.

Barrichello manages to put the car 2nd at Silverstone and finish third, in cloudy conditions. In Germany he qualifies 2nd, and finishes 6th after a botchy pit stop. Realistically, he could have expected 3rd anyway. In Hungary he's 13th on grid and 10th in the race - obviously having to contend with Massa's freak accident. He was less than a second of Q2 pole time despite that.

So, what's my point? Well I don't believe Brawn have solved their problem with their lack of mechanical grip on cooler tracks. And, it appears to me that Barrichello has the upper hand in those situations. If Button and Barrichello both fail to make an impact in quali, I expect to see Barrichello get the upper hand over his team-mate. After all, I think he's done a better job since the Turkish GP - the turning point of the year? - but I don't expect either Brawn car to beat the McLarens or Red Bulls.

That's not a bad analysis, I would even say it's pretty good. :)

[52Paddy]

That's not a bad analysis, I would even say it's pretty good. :)

Thank you, kind sir :D

[SGWilko]

One point I took from comments made at Valencia RE KERS use in Spa was that there is less scope to harvest all the power required to make full use of the system.

[F1boat]

I heard contradicting opinions, one say that KERS will be crucial at Spa and Monza, other say it won't matter... I am confused.

[52Paddy]

One point I took from comments made at Valencia RE KERS use in Spa was that there is less scope to harvest all the power required to make full use of the system.

Less scope to 'harvest all the power'? I guess you mean that the cars are flat out for so much of the lap that there is not enough braking energy around the lap to build up a good store of KERS? :confused:

If this is what you're saying then I've had the whole KERS idea wrong. As far as I know, KERS is always there (to be used in unlimited amounts) but the FIA limit it to a certain amount every lap. So, even if there were not many braking zones on the track to build up an energy store, the kinetic energy from the car's movement around the track certainly would be enough. Someone please enlighten me on this one.

There are clearly lots of opportunities on this track were an extra 80hp would be a hugh advantage. Its basically flat from La Source to Les Combes; the section around Pouhon is very flowing; from Stavelot to Bus Stop its mostly flat and then there's the pit straight. So I don't really understand how a KERS car won't possess an advantage here (taking reliability out of the equation.)

[ioan]

There are at least 3 long and hard breaking places at Spa, more than enough to charge the KERS for 6.6 seconds of use.

[52Paddy]

There are at least 3 long and hard breaking places at Spa, more than enough to charge the KERS for 6.6 seconds of use.

So can you explain what SGWilko means?

[Saint Devote]

KERS is also a weakness for Mclaren because it really causes accelerated tyre wear but Hamilton is always quick at Spa as are all the good drivers.

If Alonso is up to it he will risk a very oversteery car for being quick.

I am hoping for a strong race from Jenson - the mid-season blahs are not all that unusual. He does at least need a podium and Nrawn do seem happier about the car - still a great car!

Question is also whether Red Bull have now entered a more troubled phase. Albeit that tight circuits are not their strong point.

Barrichello is on a roll and maybe, just maybe that win will give him the confidence that can beat everyone so soon after Valencia.

[SGWilko]

So can you explain what SGWilko means?

What I mean is, and bear in mind my limit of expertise is confined to sitting in an armchair and either watching the
Moving picture box or browsing the interweb........;

Teams are only permitted to charge (harvest) their systems while engine is not at load and the brakes are applied,
Hence the KERS is making use of braking energy. It may well be that the frictional torque applied to the engine when KERS
Is charging will aid deceleration, but I don't know for sure.

As an example, take a battery powered RC car - how long do the batteries need per charge as opposed to how much
Use you get out of them - you spend more time charging the darn thing, right?

So, a good KERS track is one, like Valencia and Hungary, that has lots of stop start corners.

I hope;

The above makes sense and gets across what I am trying to articulate.

[ioan]

What I mean is, and bear in mind my limit of expertise is confined to sitting in an armchair and either watching the
Moving picture box or browsing the interweb........;

Teams are only permitted to charge (harvest) their systems while engine is not at load and the brakes are applied,
Hence the KERS is making use of braking energy. It may well be that the frictional torque applied to the engine when KERS
Is charging will aid deceleration, but I don't know for sure.

As an example, take a battery powered RC car - how long do the batteries need per charge as opposed to how much
Use you get out of them - you spend more time charging the darn thing, right?

So, a good KERS track is one, like Valencia and Hungary, that has lots of stop start corners.

I hope;

The above makes sense and gets across what I am trying to articulate.

You don't need to brake often in order to charge KERS, especially for the small amount of energy allowed to be used right now.
To get an advantage from KERS it's more important to be able to use it under acceleration than to have endless amounts of low speed corners.

In fact I'm pretty sure that the amount of energy recovered under heavy breaking in Spa will be higher than what they could recover from the rather light breaking zones in Valencia and Hungary where I suppose that they were charging KERS rather at the end of the straights and maybe in 2 other places where they had a bit more braking forces.

Another advantage of KESR that was often mentioned by the engineers at the beginning of the season is that it can be used to help with breaking, now that engine breaking is not allowed anymore. This is because KERS works over a separate ECU which isn't the standard FIA imposed ECU and can be programmed to do things that aren't allowed in the standard one.

[SGWilko]

the rather light breaking zones in Valencia

I would not say Velencia is light on the brakes Ioan, I seem to recall brakes were wearing thin/running hot for some, and I even think one of the STR's disks went pop, wishing to do an impression of a Vettel power plant!!! ;)

[52Paddy]

What I mean is, and bear in mind my limit of expertise is confined to sitting in an armchair and either watching the
Moving picture box or browsing the interweb........;

Teams are only permitted to charge (harvest) their systems while engine is not at load and the brakes are applied,
Hence the KERS is making use of braking energy. It may well be that the frictional torque applied to the engine when KERS
Is charging will aid deceleration, but I don't know for sure.

As an example, take a battery powered RC car - how long do the batteries need per charge as opposed to how much
Use you get out of them - you spend more time charging the darn thing, right?

So, a good KERS track is one, like Valencia and Hungary, that has lots of stop start corners.

I hope;

The above makes sense and gets across what I am trying to articulate.

:up: Cheers. That makes sense to me now. Though, I didn't know that KERS took the energy built up from braking. I thought it used the kinetic energy created by the car. Thus, that's why I believed it was forever available, just limited by the FIA.

Despite that imposition, the heavy braking points, as ioan points out, would create a big mass of energy so I still think the KERS cars will have an advantage. Imagine the scenario:

A KERS car using the last of KERS to get a run off bus-stop for the pit straight. Then heavy braking for La Source (KERS is now re-filled for the lap, too) and using KERS again on the exit of the corner; this gives an advtantage all the way to Les Combes. That section will be KERS territory the way I read the situation. The Brawns and Red Bulls etc will need to put in some charge through sector 2 if they want to keep on par with the KERS cars on the overall lap. I don't expect the difference to be devastating, but certainly considerable and advantageous.

[SGWilko]

Though, I didn't know that KERS took the energy built up from braking. I thought it used the kinetic energy created by the car. Thus, that's why I believed it was forever available, just limited by the FIA.


What you state is - technically true - but the teams are only allowed to harvest the energy while the car is braking (decelerating?). The next step was to allow harvesting waste heat energy created from braking and from the car exhaust, but I guess a wunch of bankers around the globe causing a credit crunch have put paid to that.......

[SGWilko]

A KERS car using the last of KERS to get a run off bus-stop for the pit straight. Then heavy braking for La Source (KERS is now re-filled for the lap, too) and using KERS again on the exit of the corner; this gives an advtantage all the way to Les Combes. That section will be KERS territory the way I read the situation. The Brawns and Red Bulls etc will need to put in some charge through sector 2 if they want to keep on par with the KERS cars on the overall lap. I don't expect the difference to be devastating, but certainly considerable and advantageous.

Only trouble is, six seconds worth of KERS is a drop in the ocean at Spa, isn't it?

[F1boat]

I guess that we have to wait and see what happens as everybody sounds logical. I remember that after Hungary Jenson said that on Spa at Monza the KERS will be worth one second per lap.

[SGWilko]

Another advantage of KESR

My kids love it there!!!!! http://kesr.org.uk/ ;)

[SGWilko]

:up: Cheers. That makes sense to me now. Though, I didn't know that KERS took the energy built up from braking. I thought it used the kinetic energy created by the car. Thus, that's why I believed it was forever available, just limited by the FIA.

Despite that imposition, the heavy braking points, as ioan points out, would create a big mass of energy so I still think the KERS cars will have an advantage. Imagine the scenario:

A KERS car using the last of KERS to get a run off bus-stop for the pit straight. Then heavy braking for La Source (KERS is now re-filled for the lap, too) and using KERS again on the exit of the corner; this gives an advtantage all the way to Les Combes. That section will be KERS territory the way I read the situation. The Brawns and Red Bulls etc will need to put in some charge through sector 2 if they want to keep on par with the KERS cars on the overall lap. I don't expect the difference to be devastating, but certainly considerable and advantageous.

This may help http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Mark_Hughes&id=43467

[ioan]

I would not say Velencia is light on the brakes Ioan, I seem to recall brakes were wearing thin/running hot for some, and I even think one of the STR's disks went pop, wishing to do an impression of a Vettel power plant!!! ;)

You're right one of Buemi's front brake disks detonated. My bad. :)

[ioan]

My kids love it there!!!!! http://kesr.org.uk/ ;)

Bugger! :p :

[SGWilko]

Bugger! :p :

Gotcha!!!!! ;)

[52Paddy]

Only trouble is, six seconds worth of KERS is a drop in the ocean at Spa, isn't it?

I see your point. Though if the prove substantial in giving a boosted exit from tight corners (which we haven't really seen this year so far) at Spa, then they will still possess some advantage, albeit to a much lesser extent than I'd previously thought up.


This may help http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Mark_Hughes&id=43467

Thanks mate :up: Its pretty basic stuff but still answers my question:


They store energy otherwise lost during braking and convert it into power.

So there we are. It will certainly be worth monitoring the KERS cars over the weekend to see the outcome of our little discussion.

[ioan]

Only trouble is, six seconds worth of KERS is a drop in the ocean at Spa, isn't it?

Not really. The effect of KERS means that they will be going faster than other cars for not only the 6.6 seconds but also after that until they reach the rev limit.
Once they use KERS boost it's effect will be seen for quite some time after the 6.6 seconds are gone.

In Sepang it was said that on the back straight the KERS cars were having an advantage of a couple tenths of a second.

[ioan]

Here's Ferrari's take on KERS at Spa:

http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/090826_belgian_GP_preview.aspx

[F1boat]

"the Scuderia engineers believe that KERS will have more of an impact here than at any other circuit on the calendar." - this is very interesting.

[ioan]

"the Scuderia engineers believe that KERS will have more of an impact here than at any other circuit on the calendar." - this is very interesting.

I wouldn't call it interesting, it's rather obvious.

[F1boat]

For me it was interesting as I wasn't sure about the contradicting opinions, despite the opinion of Jenson. Now I am pretty sure, although I thought that in Monza it could be even more crucial.

[Sonic]

I think Ferrari are saying that KERS will help here the most because they can run a slightly higher downforce level and therefore probably still get through eau rouge flat but then they can still get good top speed thanks to KERS. Best of both worlds.

[Tazio]

You're right one of Buemi's front brake disks detonated. My bad. :)

Perhaps they underestimated the necessary dimensions of the cooling ducts for that race?

[ShiftingGears]

I think Ferrari are saying that KERS will help here the most because they can run a slightly higher downforce level and therefore probably still get through eau rouge flat but then they can still get good top speed thanks to KERS. Best of both worlds.

I cannot think of an occasion within the last five years where a driver in dry conditions has not been able to go through Eau Rouge flat-out.

Webber's going to have to pull out something incredible if he's to reel in Barrichello and Button by a significant points margin.

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5515115,00.html

Cool weekend - probably not going to favour the Brawns. If it rains fairly consistently, it should favour the Red Bulls. Webber would've won in Malaysia if not for the timing of the red flag, and they got a 1-2 in China.

I feel that Vettel's chance at the title is looking increasingly unlikely and if they were in the situation where Vettel can assist Webber he should do so.

[Saint Devote]

Yes, but they have to be careful how they use the KERS because of the severe degradation that occurs - just look what it did to Hamilton's tyres in Valencia although they were using the option tyres.

The Brawns were using the primes in the first two stints and this indicates that the team has recovered. Of course we will only know for sure on Friday, because in the early part of the season the temperature had no significant effect.

Hamilton is aware of the shortcomings of the Mclaren as he mentioned after Valencia without the KERS and the effects with it.

And Jenson is very good at anticipating the KERS cars as he showed when he passed Lewis in Spain [I think it was].

I think there is a question over the Red Bulls as well - although the cars have never favored tight tracks and they did extremely well at Silverstone and Nurburgring.

But Mclaren have come along and if there is one track that Raikonnen is a champion at its Spa.

I think it is going to be an intriguing grand prix weekend and in the end strategy could dictate totally and there is nobody better at that than Ross.

[Saint Devote]

I guess that we have to wait and see what happens as everybody sounds logical. I remember that after Hungary Jenson said that on Spa at Monza the KERS will be worth one second per lap.

I think that is exaggerating or maybe we have to understand the context that Button was talking because he is not someone that makes outlandish statements - the Mercedes KERS that could be used by Brawn is estimmated by the MB High Performance Engine people that it would give the Brawns a 3/10ths of a second per lap boost.

But one second, a whole second - then everyone might as well pack up and go home than even race at Spa and Monza.

[Saint Devote]

I think Ferrari are saying that KERS will help here the most because they can run a slightly higher downforce level and therefore probably still get through eau rouge flat but then they can still get good top speed thanks to KERS. Best of both worlds.

The downside is that it will grain their tyres and at least in one stint they will quickly lose time.

Alonso and Renault still have the best strategy - a lighter car and racee qualifying laps!! He could just beat both Mclaren and Ferrari at these circuits.

[555-04Q2]

Aaaahhhh SPA! My favourite track in the world. One of the last few real racing circuits left on the F1 calendar.

Cant wait for the weekend!!!!!

[jimakos]

Aaaahhhh SPA! My favourite track in the world. One of the last few real racing circuits left on the F1 calendar.

Cant wait for the weekend!!!!!

I have heard this opinion from a lot people and wandering if Spa is as good as it said!
Of course i don't have been there anytime but I would like because of the noise around there :D

[Knock-on]

Bit worried about the weather.

Looks like being dry but only about 17 degrees.

Don't look good for Brawn.

[ioan]

Bit worried about the weather.

Looks like being dry but only about 17 degrees.

Don't look good for Brawn.

Hopefully for them McLaren and Ferrari will take the podium places so RBR will only take smaller points too.

19C tomorrow, 21C for Saturday and Sunday. Not really what Brawn need, maybe Rubens will be able to do something to get some heat in those tires given that his driving style is more aggressive.
http://fr.weather.com/weather/10day-Spa-BEXX0031

[Sleeper]

Spa will be the big test for whether Brawn and McLarens recent updates have solved their problems, after all its the first high speed, high aero track McLaren have raced at since Silverstone, and it wont be all that hot in all likelyhood so that will really test Brawn.

RBR are definitely the favourites here IMO.

[Knock-on]

Hopefully for them McLaren and Ferrari will take the podium places so RBR will only take smaller points too.

19C tomorrow, 21C for Saturday and Sunday. Not really what Brawn need, maybe Rubens will be able to do something to get some heat in those tires given that his driving style is more aggressive.
http://fr.weather.com/weather/10day-Spa-BEXX0031

Think you're right about Rubens.

Hopefully, if Brawn are off the pace, the Horse and Arrows will get the top places as you guess. :up:

[F1boat]

Hopefully for them McLaren and Ferrari will take the podium places so RBR will only take smaller points too.

19C tomorrow, 21C for Saturday and Sunday. Not really what Brawn need, maybe Rubens will be able to do something to get some heat in those tires given that his driving style is more aggressive.
http://fr.weather.com/weather/10day-Spa-BEXX0031

If the weather is truly Spa-esque, constantly changing, who knows what will happen... Yes, RBR are favorite to win, but let's wait and see what happens, Rubens might win again!

[Sonic]

I cannot think of an occasion within the last five years where a driver in dry conditions has not been able to go through Eau Rouge flat-out.

You are of course correct. However with the current regs there is a possibility that we will see eau rouge becoming more challenging than in recent years. We can hope!

[ioan]

You are of course correct. However with the current regs there is a possibility that we will see eau rouge becoming more challenging than in recent years. We can hope!

Since the DDD's the lost downforce is minimal and the slick will see to the rest of the task. Not that this will help a certain driver who's name starts with Bad.

[Saint Devote]

If Brawn has solved their problems then 20 degree weather is not a sinificant issue - they finished 3rd in China with such a temperature.

And RBR may find it tough going because Mclaren and Ferrari are far better cars than they were earlier in the season. Hamilton and Raikonnen at Spa with KERS in cool weather - that will assist in slowing tyre graining which a KERS side effect - are signficant factors.

Good luck to anyone guessing a winner this weekend!

[F1boat]

If Brawn has solved their problems then 20 degree weather is not a sinificant issue - they finished 3rd in China with such a temperature.


And won in the rainy Malaysia and the Australian eve.

[ShiftingGears]

You are of course correct. However with the current regs there is a possibility that we will see eau rouge becoming more challenging than in recent years. We can hope!

Not going to happen. The aero package is still more than good enough to allow the cars to take Eau Rouge flat.

[Mark]

Just watching practice. It's raining!

[pino]

Just watching practice. It's raining!

Are you allowed to watch tv at work ? :eek: btw how Badoer is doing ? :p :

[SGWilko]

Are you allowed to watch tv at work ? :eek: btw how Badoer is doing ? :p :

He kept it out of the wall, which is a good start.....

[callum122]

I just had a look at the FP1 results. How badly did rain affect the session? The times mean much?

[F1boat]

Vettel made only one installation lap, probably he is saving the engine.

[SGWilko]

Vettel made only one installation lap, probably he is saving the engine.

Saving it for a big bang in the race???

[Knock-on]

Just watching practice. It's raining!

There goes the bloody weather forecast :rolleyes:

Anyway, updated reports are possibility of rain for a short period today but Sunday looks like dry all day. Best take a brolly ;)

[F1boat]

Saving it for a big bang in the race???

Hehe.

[Knock-on]

“As for the thing with Jenson, I haven’t heard about it. I think we are here to race. Maybe I have to talk to him later if it was a problem for him. As I said, we try to race, we try to defend our position, so there’s not much more to say. I started on the dirty side and I knew that at the first and especially second corner it would be crucial to be on the inside and on the clean side, so I tried to get to the inside as early as possible. I think it was fine, so for me I don’t think there was any problem, but maybe I have to talk to Jenson later.”

Sounds to me that Seb knows he chopped off Jens at the beginning and compromised his race. As close to an apology as you will get from a driver :)

[Saint Devote]

Jenson second quickest in the rain :-]]]]]

First practice of course so everything is is changeable.

I see Badoer is 2 seconds slower than Raikonnen and sort of slithered off the circuit at one stage.

Wonder what happened to Hamilton - no time. Trulli quickest - amazing what uncertainty can do......

[Knock-on]

Looking at the times, there was no real propper running so I would ignore them really.

[I am evil Homer]

I'd definitely ignore them if the Toyota's are near the top!

[F1boat]

Looking at the times, there was no real propper running so I would ignore them really.

I watched the session and you are right. The times are meaningless. Even Button's lap was ruined by Raikkonen, only Jarno made a proper lap.

[Garry Walker]

Sounds to me that Seb knows he chopped off Jens at the beginning and compromised his race. As close to an apology as you will get from a driver :)

This is racing, not drinking tea.
Nothing wrong with chopping off another driver.

[F1boat]

I know that Mark is only P4, but I think that Red Bull has monstrous advantage, note that his time was beaten in the end and he didn't hammer a lap in the final moments. 1-2 for the Austrian team IMO...

[ioan]

I know that Mark is only P4, but I think that Red Bull has monstrous advantage, note that his time was beaten in the end and he didn't hammer a lap in the final moments. 1-2 for the Austrian team IMO...

Don't be so sure. RedBul will be an easy pray at the start to both McLaren and Ferrari and if the KERS cars overtake them than it's game over for RedBull as they can't overtake in the twisty 2nd section.

[F1boat]

For the sake of Jenson, I hope that you are right. :(

[Sonic]

Say bye bye Luca! :wave:

[gloomyDAY]

Why are the Brawn's so far back? Sandbagging?

Oh yeah, Luca is making Ferrari management look like geniuses. lol

[5001]

There is a wrong from Spa last year that would like to see wrighted this year

[gloomyDAY]

There is a wrong from Spa last year that would like to see wrighted this yearYou mean when the FIA decided to steal Hamilton's win and rolled out the red carpet for Ferrari?

[Tazio]

You mean when the FIA decided to steal Hamilton's win and rolled out the red carpet for Ferrari?

Thats right!!
This time Kimi will beat Lewis on the track! :arrows:

[Sonic]

So there ends the Red Bull challenge. Mark's blown an engine in FP3 so is now in the same boat as Vettel.

I think the team now needs to hedge their bets and continue with Vettel's cautious engine strategy to see if they can make the remaining units last the season. Whereas they should just let Mark rag it and accept they will take a grid drop at some point in the future.

Well thats what I think, what about you? :confused:

[Tazio]

So there ends the Red Bull challenge. Mark's blown an engine in FP3 so is now in the same boat as Vettel.

I think the team now needs to hedge their bets and continue with Vettel's cautious engine strategy to see if they can make the remaining units last the season. Whereas they should just let Mark rag it and accept they will take a grid drop at some point in the future.

Well thats what I think, what about you? :confused:

De-tune as much as possible when running, and pray for a miracle!
Also get Kers in those rigs for 5th row starts!

[F1boat]

I think the team now needs to hedge their bets and continue with Vettel's cautious engine strategy to see if they can make the remaining units last the season. Whereas they should just let Mark rag it and accept they will take a grid drop at some point in the future.

Well thats what I think, what about you? :confused:

It should be the other way around, Seb is the fast guy, Mark the solid one.

[Sonic]

But Vet has already been saving an engine this weekend so why change now? Regardless of who you think is faster.

[Sonic]

Ok forget it. A fuel pump or something, so he can have the engine back.

[Sonic]

Q1. Omg! Amazing! :D

[ioan]

Bye Bye Jenson. Looks to me that you aren't WDC material either.
Go Rubens!
Go Fisi!

[pino]

Fisichella :eek: :crazy:

[Sonic]

Q2. Even better! Where the hell did BMW and Toyota come from???

Fissi. Frickin awesome! To quote Ross Brawn from last week "just like the old days"

Also I had a bout of Rubens fever earlier in the year and I think I'm coming down with it again. GO RUBENS! ;)

[BDunnell]

Bye Bye Jenson. Looks to me that you aren't WDC material either.

I am starting to wonder that myself. His drop-off in pace, after several genuinely splendid drives earlier in the season, really is quite astonishing and can't be put down to the car.

But great to see Fisichella up there. Tremendous stuff. It promises to be a fascinating race.

[Sonic]

Fissi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ioan]

WOOW!

Force India Pole Position!

Go Fisi!

[gm99]

What an amazing qualifying result!

[ioan]

I am starting to wonder that myself. His drop-off in pace, after several genuinely splendid drives earlier in the season, really is quite astonishing and can't be put down to the car.

The car isn't best again and Rubens is kicking his backside by quite a margin again.
Go Rubens, you can still be WDC!

[BDunnell]

Fisichella on pole is utterly incredible and brilliant.

[Sonic]

Also. Legard wins stupidist quote of the year;

"Rubens really knows this place having scored his first pole for Jordan here back in....his Jordan days, back with Eddie Jordan" LMAO! Does Eddie pay for each name drop?

[veeten]

and a very happy pino. :D :D

[pino]

Fantastic pole for Giancarlo :up:

[jens]

Haha, fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce: :hot:

And where is that hater Saint Devote now, who keeps saying, how Fisichella, Trulli, Heidfeld and Barrichello are useless and should retire. :rolleyes: Those guys absolutely ROCK!!

[Sonic]

And where is that hater Saint Devote now, who keeps saying, how Fisichella, Trulli, Heidfeld and Barrichello are useless and should retire. :rolleyes: Those guys absolutely ROCK!!

LMAO! And where's woody? He must need CPR after that!

[pino]

and a very happy pino. :D :D

Yes I am especially after seen Trulli performace too :D

[ioan]

Fisi first in a Force India, Badoer last in a Ferrari!

Great job Fisi! Welcome (hopefully) to Ferrari! :up:

[F1boat]

WHAT THE...? GREAT JOB FOR FISI AND JARNO! Well done for "Force India-Mercedes", well done for Rubens Barrichello as well, best of the championship contenders! Tomorrow will be f**** amazing! Can't wait!

[ioan]

Haha, fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce: :hot:

And where is that Saint Devote now, who keeps saying, how Fisichella, Trulli, Heidfeld and Barrichello are useless and should retire. :rolleyes: Those guys absolutely ROCK!!

Don't even bother with him Jens.

BTW, great showing by Jarno, I wasn't expecting it!

[F1boat]

Well done for all old boys here, the top 4 is from veterans!

[jimakos]

WHAT THE...? GREAT JOB FOR FISI AND JARNO! Well done for "Force India-Mercedes", well done for Rubens Barrichello as well, best of the championship contenders! Tomorrow will be f**** amazing! Can't wait!

Absolutely agree!
One of the best in this year.
I'm a little sad about Kimi,I thought he could made something better :)

[F1boat]

I'm a little sad about Kimi,I thought he could made something better :)

I wouldn't count him off, he has KERS and with things so close, everything is possible tomorrow!

[Sonic]

Absolutely agree!
One of the best in this year.
I'm a little sad about Kimi,I thought he could made something better :)

Ferrari didn't seem to twig about the 2/3 hot lap thing.

[VkmSpouge]

Congratulations to Giancarlo Fisichella and the Force India team! A brilliant pole position having showed pace all weekend. They might be light on fuel but they should still have a respectable amount of it in the tanks. It should be a really good race tomorrow! :D

Jenson Button putting in a very poor showing. No excuses this time, he was simply slow. He needs to get this sorted soon before his championship lead has completely evaporated.

[AJP]

Ummmmm !!

[jimakos]

I wouldn't count him off, he has KERS and with things so close, everything is possible tomorrow!

I believe that too,but his position doesn't let him fight for the win!!
At least I wish to take a pondium place :)

[wedge]

Never expected that one!


I think we can officially confirm Button as the new Mansell: the car's undriveable: oversteer this, oversteer that; grumble grumble

[keysersoze]

Haha, fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce: :hot:

And where is that hater Saint Devote now, who keeps saying, how Fisichella, Trulli, Heidfeld and Barrichello are useless and should retire. :rolleyes: Those guys absolutely ROCK!!

Exactly! Saint Devote's nightmare front row. I'm loving it! :D

[veeten]

anyone seem to notice that ever since BMW had announced their leaving of Formula 1, their cars have been getting better?

Strange... :dozey:

[Sonic]

I think we can officially confirm Button as the new Mansell: the car's undriveable: oversteer this, oversteer that; grumble grumble

LOL! Mansell's quicker though! :p :

[BDunnell]

Haha, fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce: :hot:

And where is that hater Saint Devote now, who keeps saying, how Fisichella, Trulli, Heidfeld and Barrichello are useless and should retire. :rolleyes: Those guys absolutely ROCK!!

Well said. I've never seen you so excited!

[jens]

anyone seem to notice that ever since BMW had announced their leaving of Formula 1, their cars have been getting better?

Strange... :dozey:

Attract potential buyers with a good improving car? ;) And also raise the price of the team (BMW hasn't announced they are going to sell it by 1€!)

[jimakos]

anyone seem to notice that ever since BMW had announced their leaving of Formula 1, their cars have been getting better?

Strange... :dozey:

I like a lot the way you are thinking veeten :up:

[F1boat]

Maybe it's just than BMW are giving all they have to leave on a high.

[veeten]

or that they have, essentially, nothing to lose by putting all their expenditures into a car that can be a good selling point for the next buyer.

May as well spend up all the funds for the year and put forth a good effort, but why weren't they this concentrated during the early part of the season?

Sad that it takes a situation like they are in presently in to bring out the best in them, but ultimately for futile reasons.

[gloomyDAY]

I just woke up! Am I dreaming? :bounce:

[veeten]

I just woke up! Am I dreaming? :bounce:

Yes, you are. Go back to bed. :p

[Ranger]

What?!

...is the one word that summarises qualifying. :D

[jens]

Spa is a drivers' circuit, so now we have finally found out, who the best drivers really are. :laugh: :D

[yodasarmpit]

wtf

[ioan]

Maybe it's just than BMW are giving all they have to leave on a high.

Too little, too late. :\

[ioan]

Spa is a drivers' circuit, so now we have finally found out, who the best drivers really are. :laugh: :D

The best driver isn't competing right now. ;)

[Ranger]

So anyone game enough for race predictions? :p :

[ioan]

So anyone game enough for race predictions? :p :

You crazy?! ;)

[christophulus]

Fantastic job from Fisi, probably light on fuel but genuinely fast too. My money is (literally) on Raikkonen tomorrow so fingers crossed :) .

The luck is still with Button in a strange way - he was slow but the Red Bulls aren't much better and are eating through engines pretty quickly too.

[wedge]

Attract potential buyers with a good improving car? ;)

Their KERS package was useless so they gave up and got rid of KERS ballast and developed better weight distribution such as re-sculpted sidepods.

[gloomyDAY]

Anything could happen. It's close. If we can get another step I think we can consistently getting in Q2 and why not in Q3 - Fisi, yesterday.

[Sonic]

Predictions for the race? I really don't care as long as FI get something out of this weekend.

[gloomyDAY]

This qualifying session just makes me think that F1 is rigged.
I don't know why, but it just does.


Predictions for the race? I really don't care as long as FI get something out of this weekend.I hope Force India finally get those agonizing points. *knock on wood*

[jens]

Wonder, how has Toyota suddenly so quickly solved tyre heating issues. If they are fast in the race, as they have been so far, the chances for a top result are excellent! Though I'm afraid Toyota cocks something up as usual, when they have a great chance...

McLaren's aero issues still don't seem to be completely solved as evident on this circuit. They'll be better at Monza.

Fisi was P1 in Q1 and second in Q2, he can't be that light like some suggest. He is a serious threat in the race. ;)

Btw, I wonder, what kind of surprise result of a similar magnitude can be brought out from the history? :D Teo Fabi's pole in Toleman in 1985?

[ioan]

Weights are up:



Pos Driver Weight (kg)
1. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 648.0
2. Trulli Toyota 656.5
3. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber 655.0
4. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 644.5
5. Kubica BMW-Sauber 649.0
6. Raikkonen Ferrari 655.0
7. Glock Toyota 648.5
8. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 662.5
9. Webber Red Bull-Renault 658.0
10. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 670.0
11. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 678.5*
12. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 693.5*
13. Alonso Renault 684.4*
14. Button Brawn-Mercedes 694.2*
15. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 697.0*
16. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 685.0*
17. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 704.5*
18. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 706.1*
19. Grosjean Renault 704.7*
20. Badoer Ferrari 691.5*


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78131

Fisi and Rubens are light!
Nick for the win! Trulli and Kimi 2nd and 3rd! :D

[jimakos]

Thanks for information ioan!!

[Nikki Katz]

I hope that this is a good race for Trulli, it might persuade Toyota not to pull out.

From the grid it looks like it'll be a good race whatever the result.

[jens]

Barrichello surprisingly light. Räikkönen has a great chance with his KERS button.

I'm a bit surprised that all those, who missed Q3, are going on a one-stopper. Experience from past years tells that at Spa 1-stopper is usually a clearly slower strategy. So without an intervention of a SC their chances won't be too good.

[ioan]

Barrichello surprisingly light. Räikkönen has a great chance with his KERS button.

I'm a bit surprised that all those, who missed Q3, are going on a one-stopper. Experience from past years tells that at Spa 1-stopper is usually a clearly slower strategy. So without an intervention of a SC their chances won't be too good.

However with BADoer around the chance for a SC is higher than usual! :D

[Viv]

Weights are up:



Pos Driver Weight (kg)
1. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 648.0
2. Trulli Toyota 656.5
3. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber 655.0
4. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 644.5
5. Kubica BMW-Sauber 649.0
6. Raikkonen Ferrari 655.0
7. Glock Toyota 648.5
8. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 662.5
9. Webber Red Bull-Renault 658.0
10. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 670.0
11. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 678.5*
12. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 693.5*
13. Alonso Renault 684.4*
14. Button Brawn-Mercedes 694.2*
15. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 697.0*
16. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 685.0*
17. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 704.5*
18. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 706.1*
19. Grosjean Renault 704.7*
20. Badoer Ferrari 691.5*


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78131

Fisi and Rubens are light!
Nick for the win! Trulli and Kimi 2nd and 3rd! :D

Can anyone tell me how many laps this fuel difference is going to translate to (betn P1 and P2)? Considering this is a big lap, I guessing not more than 2.

[christophulus]

Analysis here: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/29/belgian-grand-prix-fuel-strategy/

Trulli looking very strong, around three laps more fuel than Fisichella. If Barrichello can jump Trulli at the start he's on for a good haul of points, otherwise his race may well be ruined.

[UltimateDanGTR]

this is gonna be a great race tommorow, i can feel it. kimi with kers, trulli quick in the toyota and seems best placed, vettel heavier but was second fastest fuel adjusted, barrichello light, and the other championship contenders out of it! all with fisi on pole-FANTASTIC! well done fisi by the way, 4th fastest fuel adjusted i believe, well done that man.....

[Sonic]

quote=UltimateDanGTR;682053]well done fisi by the way, 4th fastest fuel adjusted i believe, well done that man.....[/quote]

I agree with that. So if he can stay out of trouble a podium is waiting for him. Please, please, please, please, PUUUURRRRLLLLLEEEEAAASSEEE!

[UltimateDanGTR]

I agree with that. So if he can stay out of trouble a podium is waiting for him. Please, please, please, please, PUUUURRRRLLLLLEEEEAAASSEEE!


you summed that up nicely. hopefully fisi will not get into any trouble at turn one, especially with 'kimi and his kers', but theres an experienced wise head on those shoulders of his, so hopefully he will play it cool, and a good result will be his. in theory.

[ioan]

Can anyone tell me how many laps this fuel difference is going to translate to (betn P1 and P2)? Considering this is a big lap, I guessing not more than 2.

At Spa there is a consumption rate of approx 3.15 kgs/lap.

Fisi: 48 kgs fuel= 16 laps (considering he will use less than 3kgs/lap for the installation and formation laps) - 2 (installation and formation) laps = 14 race laps of fuel!

Trulli: 56.5kgs fuel= 18 laps - 2 (installation and formation) laps = 16 race laps

So, yes you are right the difference is about 2 laps, which means that Fisi needs at least 3 - 4 seconds advantage before his first pit stop, if he wants to stay ahead.

[truefan72]

I am really happy for force india, what a result. I know they are light, but they might be sitting pretty if it rains tomorrow, or tonight, and all drivrrs have to come in anyway to change tyres.

Pino must be dancing in heaven, italians 1-2 on the grid. Fisi off to Ferrari after this. BMW and Toyota looking good too.Webber should have been demoted. Not sure what to make off Macs lack of pace in sector 2, very troubling. It will be a great race tomorrow. Can't wait

[jens]

By the way, I have one more theory in mind regarding Button vs Barrichello and that complete turnaround in their battle.

I remember in the beginning of the season Button kept saying that he isn't thinking about the title, but keeps concentrating on taking the maximum of each and every race. During race weekends his was totally committed to that particular race weekend. At the same time Barrichello was thinking about the bigger piece of cake and thought of the title with less focus on races.

It looks like it is different now. Button says he is 'worried' about the title and his mindset is there. At the same time Barrichello has changed his attitude too - after dropping long way behind Button in the points he seems more focussed on racing with an attitude "bah, if I can't win the title, then let's have at least some good results and wins at the end of the season." Of course in interviews Rubens still talks about title, but he seems more racy with an attitude "I have nothing to lose and let's go flat-out to see what happens" rather than "playing it safe for consistent point-finishes". :D

[CaptainRaiden]

People keep talking about KERS being an advantage at the start tomorrow, and we're talking about Spa here. I am not so convinced. The distance from the start line to the first corner is pretty less for KERS to be deployed, I guess? Does anybody know the exact distance? Or maybe it's good enough and Kimi would at least slingshot into 3rd by the first corner. Well, wishful thinking. :D

[ioan]

People keep talking about KERS being an advantage at the start tomorrow, and we're talking about Spa here. I am not so convinced. The distance from the start line to the first corner is pretty less for KERS to be deployed, I guess? Does anybody know the exact distance? Or maybe it's good enough and Kimi would at least slingshot into 3rd by the first corner. Well, wishful thinking. :D

1st on grid to La Source is 250 meters.
However they will be all bunched up and than they go flat out for 20+ seconds until Les Combes plenty of time to use KERS to get a good advantage especially combined with a bit of slipstreaming.

[jens]

People keep talking about KERS being an advantage at the start tomorrow, and we're talking about Spa here. I am not so convinced. The distance from the start line to the first corner is pretty less for KERS to be deployed, I guess? Does anybody know the exact distance? Or maybe it's good enough and Kimi would at least slingshot into 3rd by the first corner. Well, wishful thinking. :D

I think KERS is more beneficial from La Source to Les Combes and this is where Kimi will save at least a large part of those 6,6s of KERS boost. So he could easily rise into Top3 during the opening lap.

[gloomyDAY]

Holy fudge muffins. Jarno's Toyota is fast!

[gloomyDAY]

I wonder why Red Bull fueled Vettel so heavily.

Any ideas.....?

[speeddurango]

Trulli has a real chance at winning it as long as it stays dry and he doesn't bin it at the start, and with his race pace being even better than the qualifying, sometimes much better as per shown in the last 2 races, he might just trash the whole field in a manner of Hamilton's Hungarian race.

Heifeld is competitive too and he might steal the show away from Jarno Trulli if his race start is good enough to jump ahead of Jarno Trulli while Trulli loses a few positions and somehow couldn't make up positions afterward, and in that case, if Heifeld is able to have a good enough gap before the second pistop, he might win it too.

The above mentioned Toyota and BMWs are apparently the strongest here this weekend with the Ferrari being possibly the third quickest due to their strong engine horsepower on 2 completely full throttle section which lasts a total of 44 seconds. Although the Ferrari, on the other hand, might not be quick enough comparing to the Toyotas and BMWs, they might cause a little bit of troubles out there as Kimi had already said that he'll be very aggressive at the start, but this time, the cars starting from first few rows are mostly equipped with the KERS and it would not be easy for Kimi to leapfrog the cars afront off the starting grid as usual.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I wonder why Red Bull fueled Vettel so heavily.

Any ideas.....?

interesting strategy yet. my mind syas they knew they didnt quite have the pace of say toyota, bmw and ferrari, so decided to take a gamble strategy wise because lets face it, vettel no onger has anything to lose, and alot to gain to be a title contender, so a wild shot could work out.

they must be thinking about the weather as well, maybe trying to mastermind when rain comes before hand, who knows perhaps their forecast shows that rain will come the same lap as them pitting, so they could have a superb startegy. we really dont know what will happen.

(I thought the forecast was to be sunny on race day all the way, but you never know with spa)

[jens]

From Trulli's point of view I would fear Räikkönen more than anyone else in this race. While Ferrari has been lacking something in qualifying all season, then previous weekends have indicated that F60B is already one of the fastest cars in race trim and if KR manages to reach Top4 with his KERS button on the opening lap, it is going to be hard to beat him.

But it's funny that a win of any of the Top3 on the grid would be a first-timer in some way. Front-row FI and Toyota haven't won a race. Third man Heidfeld hasn't won either. With Barrichello, Kubica and Glock also all in Top7, it's fantastic to see the mass of underdogs having a real chance in this race. :) But besides Kimi also Vettel could be a genuine (at least podium) threat in the race if his car stays in one piece for once. Also Rosberg from P10 shouldn't be underestimated. He is heaviest of all in Top10 and Williams is usually quick in the race, so I think he should end up at least in Top6.

[ioan]

I wonder why Red Bull fueled Vettel so heavily.

Any ideas.....?

Because they were fastest and most consistent on the long runs during the practice session. Vettel made a small mistake on his last flying lap otherwise would have been 3rd or 4th with the heaviest car in top 10.

[ioan]

And it's Go!

[ioan]

FGS what a load of idiots.

[ioan]

Kimi might get a penalty for using more than the track.

[ioan]

How long do they keep the SC out? It's been already 10 minutes under SC conditions.

[ioan]

Webber pushing his luck today given he's been already let off yesterday!

[ioan]

And Quick Nick shows what he can overtaking Webber on the outside into Les Combes!

[ioan]

Rubens too! :D

[ioan]

Man are they stupid in the Renault box.

[gerrit]

Kimi might get a penalty for using more than the track.

I don't think Ferrari will ever get penalised.

Gerrit

[Ranger]

Not too happy with the two major lapses in judgement from the Red Bull lollypop man in the last three races.

Kimi looks the goods for the win barring a mistake... and it won't take a large one!

[ozrevhead]

Not too happy with the two major lapses in judgement from the Red Bull lollypop man in the last three races.

Kimi looks the goods for the win barring a mistake... and it won't take a large one!
he should be made to run up and down pit lane naked

FFS Red Bull couldnt organise a chook raffle :mad:

[Frank84]

I don't watch f1 often, not more than couple races during the season.

Could anyone explain me why Raikkonen wasn't penalized for wide exit of La Source wher he continued accellerate and passing cars using KERS???

I think Force India should fill protest against Ferrari

[Hawkmoon]

Ferrari avoid their first winless season since 1993 (praised be to the racing gods) and get that Fisichella guy a set of red overalls!

Great race! To be expected of Spa. Bernie should let them hold this race for free because F1 is definitely poorer without it.

[Dave B]

Kimi might get a penalty for using more than the track.
Kimi, IMO, deliberately used the outside of the track to avoid the melee and to gain a straight run down to Eau Rouge. The rules are clear: all four wheels off the track is a penalty. But it doesn't seem to apply here.

Well done, and all that, but in my opinion he's just cheated his way to an undeserved victory.

[ioan]

Kimi, IMO, deliberately used the outside of the track to avoid the melee and to gain a straight run down to Eau Rouge. The rules are clear: all four wheels off the track is a penalty. But it doesn't seem to apply here.

Well done, and all that, but in my opinion he's just cheated his way to an undeserved victory.

Have to agree with you. This was not fair and it looked pretty much premeditated (given that he had more than enough place on the track) and IMO should have warranted a drive through penalty at least.

I have a feeling that MW not getting a penalty yesterday and Kimi not getting one today are down to Mophead and his endless shenanigans to make his show interesting.

I'm a staunch Ferrari fan but I can't take this win on face value. :\

[Hawkmoon]

I don't watch f1 often, not more than couple races during the season.

This bit perhaps explains....


Could anyone explain me why Raikkonen wasn't penalized for wide exit of La Source wher he continued accellerate and passing cars using KERS???

I think Force India should fill protest against Ferrari

...why this bit is nonsense. Drivers have been using that bit of track since Spa has existed. Nothing wrong with it. It's the first lap of the race. Drivers get a bit of leeway when it comes to driving lines and moves on at the start.

[ShiftingGears]

And that is why I don't like tarmac run-off. The run-off wouldn't be any more dangerous if it was grass. And it wouldn't reward running off the track, either. The wall was better, IMO.

Anyway, congratulations to Ferrari and Force India.

Did anyone sense that Raikkonen was a little uncharacteristically cold towards Domenicali after his win?

[penagate]

Drivers have been using that bit of track since Spa has existed.

Not so many years ago there was a wall there instead of tarmac.

[ioan]

Did anyone sense that Raikkonen was a little uncharacteristically cold towards Domenicali after his win?

That's normal, next race they will announce Alonso for 2010.

[ioan]

Not so many years ago there was a wall there instead of tarmac.

So is it.

[truefan72]

Kimi, IMO, deliberately used the outside of the track to avoid the melee and to gain a straight run down to Eau Rouge. The rules are clear: all four wheels off the track is a penalty. But it doesn't seem to apply here.

Well done, and all that, but in my opinion he's just cheated his way to an undeserved victory.


I do like kimi but he really gained an unfair advantage at the start, then compounded it by causing the incident with trulli that created the fracas at the back. So I'm none to pleased with him today.

I am also a bit suspect at Fisichella. I am happy he got 2nd for force india, but at some point I think he could have challenged better. I honestly feel that he could have pushed a bit harder, kers or no kers, that Force india was a good .6seconds faster than the Ferrari all weekend, and come race day was more than a match.

Don't really know what Grosjean and alguersari where doing but they took out Hamilton and Button. looked like real loony rookies to me.

Looks like Alonso's left front wheel was damaged right at the start and probably damaged the entire unit, so laying blame on the team is a bit harsh. The only thing that the tyre changer should have done was to switch the mounts faster instead of trying in vain to mount a broken unit.

[Hawkmoon]

Not so many years ago there was a wall there instead of tarmac.

There has been tarmac there for as long as I can remember. I remember Mansell using that bit of road every lap back in '89 or '90. It's nothing new and I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[Frank84]

This bit perhaps explains....
...why I still wondering how deep f1 fell? :)


Drivers have been using that bit of track since Spa has existed.
Man, it seems you watching even less than me! I remember Spa in the beginning of 2000-s (track exists since 1923 if I remember correctly), there were steel rails right on the left and no space for this kind of on-track cheating.

[penagate]

There has been tarmac there for as long as I can remember. I remember Mansell using that bit of road every lap back in '89 or '90. It's nothing new and I don't see what all the fuss is about.


Here's a lap from Kimi in 2002.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el7H859G4ug

Only the first 10 seconds are relevant.

[wedge]

Kimi, IMO, deliberately used the outside of the track to avoid the melee and to gain a straight run down to Eau Rouge. The rules are clear: all four wheels off the track is a penalty. But it doesn't seem to apply here.

Well done, and all that, but in my opinion he's just cheated his way to an undeserved victory.

It's called using your brain

Nothing in the rules saying you can't use the outside to overtake though you can't cut a corner to gain a position.

Oh and if you didn't notice, Button did the same thing as well.

[F1boat]

As usually, great Belgium race, "Spa" deserves its status. Best F1 race track!

[F1boat]

There has been tarmac there for as long as I can remember. I remember Mansell using that bit of road every lap back in '89 or '90. It's nothing new and I don't see what all the fuss is about.

That's why it is an Internet forum :) Nothing better than to ruin a great moment by angry armchair experts lol :-)
BTW, in insult intended, I am the same :-)

[Frank84]

There has been tarmac there for as long as I can remember. I remember Mansell using that bit of road every lap back in '89 or '90. It's nothing new and I don't see what all the fuss is about.
ridiculous

http://motorsport.com/photos/f1/2002/bel/f1-2002-bel-tm-0517.jpg

[Dave B]

It's called using your brain

Nothing in the rules saying you can't use the outside to overtake though you can't cut a corner to gain a position.

Oh and if you didn't notice, Button did the same thing as well.

Yes there is: all four wheels off the track is a penalty, nowhere does it specify whether that's the inside or the outside of a corner. Yes Button did do the same thing, as did Badoer, not that it did them any favours, and they too should have been penalised.

[ShiftingGears]

Someone reassign the Red Bull lollipop man to a task that he's more competent at! Very poor call.

[Hawkmoon]

Spa 1989. The aerial shot even shows a car on the other side of the curb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmqga0vCI5w

[truefan72]

I do feel sad for Trulli and toyota though, this was a good chance for them and they were completely wrecked by other cars

[ioan]

The only thing that the tyre changer should have done was to switch the mounts faster instead of trying in vain to mount a broken unit.

That part amazed me too, the guy certainly didn't use too much brain in that instance.

[ioan]

Spa 1989. The aerial shot even shows a car on the other side of the curb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmqga0vCI5w

It was a wet track FGS and that car was sliding out on the curb and rejoined the track immediately over the curb not 200 m down the road after overtaking half the field.

[Dave B]

I notice that Renault were ultra careful to warn Fernando in no uncertain terms this time - obviously mindful of their earlier transgression.

[Tazio]

Yes there is: all four wheels off the track is a penalty, nowhere does it specify whether that's the inside or the outside of a corner. Yes Button did do the same thing, as did Badoer, not that it did them any favours, and they too should have been penalised.

Kimi Man :up:
I'm sorry your boy got a good old fashion @$$ whippin' :laugh:
:rotflmao:

[Hawkmoon]

It was a wet track FGS and that car was sliding out on the curb and rejoined the track immediately over the curb not 200 m down the road after overtaking half the field.

I'm not talking about the move ioan, I'm talking about the configuration of the track. There is space on the outside of that corner that drivers have been using for years, particularly at the start.

[wedge]

Someone reassign the Red Bull lollipop man to a task that he's more competent at! Very poor call.

50/50

seen worse on a wider pit lane.

[DonJippo]

Yes there is: all four wheels off the track is a penalty, nowhere does it specify whether that's the inside or the outside of a corner.

Could you tell where in the rules this is said?

[ioan]

I'm not talking about the move ioan, I'm talking about the configuration of the track. There is space on the outside of that corner that drivers have been using for years, particularly at the start.

Sorry my bad. :)
Yep the track a run off than it had a guard rail and now has a run off again.

[ioan]

Could you tell where in the rules this is said?

Exactly where it was said one year ago for Lewis Hamilton. You know how they say: "What's good for the goose is good for the gander"!

[Dave B]

Could you tell where in the rules this is said?
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=682430&postcount=45

(^ What ioan said)

[Saint Devote]

There is an annoying feeling left that Webber was penalized - albeit that he deserved it and this innocent act that he plays is now utterly transparent - and Raikonnen was not.

Raikonnen - remind me why would Ferrari exchange him for Massa if Alsonso is signed? - did break the rules but as we are all aware there is one rule for Ferrari and another for others.

And Schumacher used to use that to its full effect.

Question is however how come none of the other teams protested Raikonnen's driving today?

Anyone noticed how - up to now and including today - resilient Buttons lead is? It has not been stellar for Button to say the least for the past 5 races and yet, his lead continues to bounce around 15 to 20 points to his nearest challenger and there are 5 races left.

His form is surely bound to change soon and with this sort of lead he is still favorite for the title I would say.

Has to be bye-bye Badoer and I am sure Smedley will be glad to see him go. Who is up next will be the question of the two week period.

If Fisichella sees this season as his final then he will be camping outside Ferrari from tonight! After today's performance in the Force India it would be inttiguing to see him fare against Raikonnen - although Raikonnen is able to up his game as good as his car is.

Thats Kimi - he will drive only if he is given a car that can win in his hands. And Montezemolo keeps him for that reason as he stated when asked why they resigned him.

I still can't see why ferrari would let Raikonnen leave and keep Massa alongside Alsonso. That would be a big mistake.

[Robinho]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=682430&postcount=45

(^ What ioan said)

can you and Ioan stop agreeing with each other, its upsetting all kind of balances in the universe and i have a feeling we'll all end up in a black hole soon if you don't desist with this sillyness! ;)

[Dave B]

can you and Ioan stop agreeing with each other, its upsetting all kind of balances in the universe and i have a feeling we'll all end up in a black hole soon if you don't desist with this sillyness! ;)
There's a first time for everything - I'm looking forward to normal service being resumed at Monza! :p

[Saint Devote]

Who was driving the second Renalt today - again?

Honestly, Grosjean is looking like Piquet and these are not circuits he is unfamiliar with. He clanged into Button after qualifying poorly - I can only imagine what Piquet is shouting at the television screen watching at home in Brazil!

Lets see how Grosjean does at Monza. Surely he can do something to demonstrate he is worthy of being teammate to Alonso.

[F1boat]

Question is however how come none of the other teams protested Raikonnen's driving today?



They knew better than the armchair experts.

[ioan]

Let's make things clear:


30.3 a) During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe the provisions of the Code relating to driving behaviour on circuits.
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 2-2008.pdf (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/0F0F8C66C7F4661DC125753C0056E87E/$FILE/1-2009%20F1%20SPORTING%20REGULATIONS%2012-12-2008.pdf)

The FIA International Sporting Code Regulation Appendix L says in CHAPTER IV - CODE OF DRIVING CONDUCT ON CIRCUITS:


2. Overtaking
c)Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of
doubt:
- the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be
part of the track but the kerbs are not, and ;
- a driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car
remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track for any reason, and without
prejudice to 2(d) below, the driver may rejoin. However, this may
only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any
advantage.
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... .07.20.pdf (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/2A9404B6E4C8FE4EC12575FA00440479/$FILE/Annexe%20L_2009_09.07.20.pdf)

You can't say that I didn't show you what the rules say, and I might add it's very detailed and clear for once!

Kimi should have been penalized for that move, no question.

[ioan]

They knew better than the armchair experts.

Read my post above armchair TV viewer.

[Saint Devote]

And that is why I don't like tarmac run-off. The run-off wouldn't be any more dangerous if it was grass. And it wouldn't reward running off the track, either. The wall was better, IMO.

Anyway, congratulations to Ferrari and Force India.

Did anyone sense that Raikkonen was a little uncharacteristically cold towards Domenicali after his win?

This was a Raikonnen "up yours" to Ferrari. They are so in love with Massa - who constantly needs confidence building from Smedley - and Domenicali has not exactly stood up and declared confidence and desire to have Raikkonen at Ferrari in 2010.

Big mistake.

If Raikonnen is provided with a good car - at Mclaren? :-] in 2010 it will be to Ferrari's regret.

Alonso and Raikkonen in a good car from Ferrari will lead home more 1-2's to create a record.

[Dave B]

Kimi should have been penalized for that move, no question.
And so should Badoer, who also went very wide with nobody forcing him, leading me to question whether it was a deliberate tactic.

I have to also say that Button did the same - just before anybody accuses me of anti-Ferrari bias - and if he'd completed more that four corners I'd be calling for him to be investigated as well.

[Robinho]

Ioan, i agree with you about what the rules say, which is why i think its even more odd that nothing has ben brought to the stewards on this - is it possible that the Race Director gave a dispensation to that rule in the briefings for that corner for the 1st lap, knowing what usually happens there?

i can't see any other way that Kimi has got away with it, cos it is blatant (just seen it in car from Vettel and Kimi had roon to avoid the car in from/next to him and blend in within the lines)

why wouldn't the rest of the field be all over it if they thought it was outside the rules?

i don't disagree with you, but i cannot see why they've ignored it. if they have just ignored it and there was no dispensation then poor form (again) from teh FIA, could have easily been investigated during or after the race, but no message or anything

[Robinho]

from what i saw from Buttons in car he had to avoid the spinning Sutil and Toyota(?) combination, and he didn't overtake whist off track, if anything he lost a place or 2 as he had to blend out at the bottom of eau rouge to let Kovy through who he was next to

[ioan]

And so should Badoer, who also went very wide with nobody forcing him, leading me to question whether it was a deliberate tactic.

I have to also say that Button did the same - just before anybody accuses me of anti-Ferrari bias - and if he'd completed more that four corners I'd be calling for him to be investigated as well.

All of them should have been treated with a drive through penalty at least.

[ioan]

Ioan, i agree with you about what the rules say, which is why i think its even more odd that nothing has ben brought to the stewards on this - is it possible that the Race Director gave a dispensation to that rule in the briefings for that corner for the 1st lap, knowing what usually happens there?

i can't see any other way that Kimi has got away with it, cos it is blatant (just seen it in car from Vettel and Kimi had roon to avoid the car in from/next to him and blend in within the lines)

why wouldn't the rest of the field be all over it if they thought it was outside the rules?

i don't disagree with you, but i cannot see why they've ignored it. if they have just ignored it and there was no dispensation then poor form (again) from teh FIA, could have easily been investigated during or after the race, but no message or anything

If there was dispensation than I find it strange that only Ferrari got it while the others were trying to keep it on the track with the risk of crashing into each other. I'm a Ferrari fan but I doubt the actual management is as smart as that.

[harsha]

Ioan, i agree with you about what the rules say, which is why i think its even more odd that nothing has ben brought to the stewards on this - is it possible that the Race Director gave a dispensation to that rule in the briefings for that corner for the 1st lap, knowing what usually happens there?

i can't see any other way that Kimi has got away with it, cos it is blatant (just seen it in car from Vettel and Kimi had roon to avoid the car in from/next to him and blend in within the lines)

why wouldn't the rest of the field be all over it if they thought it was outside the rules?

i don't disagree with you, but i cannot see why they've ignored it. if they have just ignored it and there was no dispensation then poor form (again) from teh FIA, could have easily been investigated during or after the race, but no message or anything

i agree...it should have been under investigation at the very least....

[VkmSpouge]

Good fun race. It was great to see Giancarlo Fisichella racing at the front and keeping pace with the Ferrari of Kimi Raikkonen. That second place will be worth a lot to the Force India team.

[Robinho]

i'm not being that cynical - i'm just wondering if they might have agreed to turn a blind eye to anyone running off track at turn 1 for the 1st lap, its not normally the quickest route.

they've just shown the in car on the F1 forum - he was 3/4th alongside the toyota into La Source and came out 3rd, still behind the BMW but ahead of the toyota. he also seemed to make little effort to stay within the lines, opted for the run off very early, although he was alonside a car.

it looks dodgy i do agree with that, but why haven't the stewards investigated - are they that incompetent or is there more to it (did i really just ask that?)

EJ, Brundle etc have all said it looked bad and that it was borderline dangeous to rejoin the track in that way, but they haven't said they think he's broken the rules - i'm deeply in the grey area on this one

[Dave B]

No action on the first-lap incidents at Les Combes, racing incident according to the BBC coverage.

[ioan]

i'm not being that cynical - i'm just wondering if they might have agreed to turn a blind eye to anyone running off track at turn 1 for the 1st lap, its not normally the quickest route.

If it was a mistake or to avoid a crash OK, but when it's obvious that it's done in order to carry much more speed through the corner and to take a faster route without having to wrest your way through the field than it should be punished, no question.

[Saint Devote]

Question is why a track such as Spa cannot afford the race to continue?

Is it the price or has something changed and f1 is now in a structural decline. Europe is a changed place and especially the rise in political correctness and the nonsensical green movement may be having an impact too.

Even in the United States today, with the rise of the leftists into power, masculine pursuits such as motor racing is not encouraged generally. Although in the South Nascar is the strongest series and maybe its because the rest of the country is so "girlyish".

Boys these days are encouraged to play with dolls - I mean "action hero figurtes" and when last did anyone see a toy gun be given as a gift? The parents - dad probably wears slip ons without socks - would have a double conuption.

So by extension maybe people are beginnnig to see racing as "nasty to the environment" and so the collapse continues.

At the end maybe dictatorship-like countries is the only way f1 can survive and Bernie is right?!

[christophulus]

Good race, would've loved Fisi to get the win and without the Ferrari KERS he probably would have done. Put a bet on Kimi to win too so a good day all round :) .

Once again Barrichello hit trouble and Webber was nowhere. Even though Vettel managed to storm through to the podium I reckon Button is going to win this title by default - another bad race and hardly a dent in his championship lead.

[F1boat]

Read my post above armchair TV viewer.

No matter what you have written, I trust the FIA stewards above the info in the Internet. I know that the stewards have reviewed the situation and decided what is best for the race and for the sport.
Obviously not everybody agrees, but, like in soccer, there is always controversy. All I care is that Raikkonen won the Belgium GP. I am sure that TRUE Ferrari fans are happy.

[ioan]

No matter what you have written, I trust the FIA stewards above the info in the Internet.

:rotflmao:
I just linked to the FIA site and their F1 regulations. Your post proves that you are a liability in this world. :\

[F1boat]

:rotflmao:
I just linked to the FIA site and their F1 regulations you noob.

And what the FIA stewards have done? BTW, I am going to report your post about the insult. The forum was much better place without you.

[ioan]

And what the FIA stewards have done?

They've been dirt stupid.


BTW, I am going to report your post about the insult.

Go tell mummy that I dared to point out your lack of knowledge. :D


The forum was much better place without you.

All I did is to post the FIA rules! You don't like the rules? Write a letter to Maxie.

[Kevincal]

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought Kimi most definitely should have been penalized for using the runoff as an unfair advantage to gain 2 positions at the start, illegally. He was NOT forced off the track, it was obvious he chose to use this runoff to his advantage. Not only that, but then he also started that chain reaction on the first lap which caused many driver's races to end. I'm not a Kimi hater at all, just saying it like I saw it.

[BDunnell]

Question is why a track such as Spa cannot afford the race to continue?

Is it the price or has something changed and f1 is now in a structural decline. Europe is a changed place and especially the rise in political correctness and the nonsensical green movement may be having an impact too.

Even in the United States today, with the rise of the leftists into power, masculine pursuits such as motor racing is not encouraged generally. Although in the South Nascar is the strongest series and maybe its because the rest of the country is so "girlyish".

Boys these days are encouraged to play with dolls - I mean "action hero figurtes" and when last did anyone see a toy gun be given as a gift? The parents - dad probably wears slip ons without socks - would have a double conuption.

So by extension maybe people are beginnnig to see racing as "nasty to the environment" and so the collapse continues.

At the end maybe dictatorship-like countries is the only way f1 can survive and Bernie is right?!

Another magnificent load of utter nonsense.