Spa 2009 [Archive] - Page 2 - Motorsport Forums

Saint Devote

30th August 2009, 19:02

Good race, would've loved Fisi to get the win and without the Ferrari KERS he probably would have done. Put a bet on Kimi to win too so a good day all round :) .

Once again Barrichello hit trouble and Webber was nowhere. Even though Vettel managed to storm through to the podium I reckon Button is going to win this title by default - another bad race and hardly a dent in his championship lead.

If Button wins it will hardly be by default - he has won six grands prix this year so far - because he took appropriate full advantage when conditions favored him and drove extremely well in the first half of the year.

This is not to say he is not driving as well now - just that there are car problems and that is f1.

That those challenging him are now essentially equally matched is a tribute to how remarkable f1 is.

In 2003 even Schumacher went through a period from the 9th to the 13th race inclusive where he suddenly won nothing and had a decending point score down to 1 point - then he won at Monza.

Seasons where drivers ideally manage a championship winning from beginning to end are relatively rare - Mansell's 1992 and Schumacher's 2004 championships for example where the drivers won so many races throughout the season are not the norm.

Saint Devote

30th August 2009, 19:04

Another magnificent load of utter nonsense.

It is rather magnificent in'it :-]

Thanks!

jimakos

30th August 2009, 19:06

I have just entered to my home!
Can anyone post the final top 8 of Spa?
I don't know anything about the race!!!!

Saint Devote

30th August 2009, 19:07

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought Kimi most definitely should have been penalized for using the runoff as an unfair advantage to gain 2 positions at the start, illegally. He was NOT forced off the track, it was obvious he chose to use this runoff to his advantage. Not only that, but then he also started that chain reaction on the first lap which caused many driver's races to end. I'm not a Kimi hater at all, just saying it like I saw it.

It is irrelevant whether you were the only one who thought Raikkonen ought to have been penalized or not.

It is your thought and will be respected.

F1boat

30th August 2009, 19:08

I have just entered to my home!
Can anyone post the final top 8 of Spa?
I don't know anything about the race!!!!

Pos Driver Team Time
1. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1h23:50.995
2. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes (B) + 0.939
3. Vettel Red Bull-Renault (B) + 3.875
4. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) + 9.966
5. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) + 11.276
6. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) + 32.763
7. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes (B) + 35.461
8. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) + 36.208

Saint Devote

30th August 2009, 19:12

And what the FIA stewards have done? BTW, I am going to report your post about the insult. The forum was much better place without you.

F1 - dont you realize by now what you are dealing with here? You have to expect rude disrespectful comments from IOAN because aside from his or her own issues - IOAN is allowed to say what they like here without penalty.

Sort of like when Ferrari is not penalized yet Red Bull is.

jimakos

30th August 2009, 19:16

Yupi...........

I'm so glad to hear that Raikkonen won the race!
I had a lot of confidence to him!
Thanks F1boat...

F1boat

30th August 2009, 19:56

Yupi...........

I'm so glad to hear that Raikkonen won the race!
I had a lot of confidence to him!
Thanks F1boat...

It was a pleasure for me to report the Kimi victory to a true tifoso. You know, one of my best buddies was on track for his first ever F1 race and he is a huge Ferrari fan, probably the biggest Ferrari fan I know, so I am very happy that Kimi won because he was there and I am sure that he is crazy with joy now...

jimakos

30th August 2009, 20:00

It was a pleasure for me to report the Kimi victory to a true tifoso. You know, one of my best buddies was on track for his first ever F1 race and he is a huge Ferrari fan, probably the biggest Ferrari fan I know, so I am very happy that Kimi won because he was there and I am sure that he is crazy with joy now...

Nice to hear news like that!
Your friend must feels the happiest man in the world :D
Is one of my dreams to go in a F1 race but here in Greece I can't...

F1boat

30th August 2009, 20:04

I told my pal - May Kimi cheer you up. And he did :-)

jimakos

30th August 2009, 20:07

I told my pal - May Kimi cheer you up. And he did :-)

... :rotflmao: ...

F1boat

30th August 2009, 20:17

Have I said something idiotic? English is not my first language :blush:

jimakos

30th August 2009, 20:27

Have I said something idiotic? English is not my first language :blush:

Neither I mate!
I just like what you are writing I don't blaim you...
You are the first one who welcomed me in thread F1 with quotes and answers in my questions!
I feel you are my friend :)

F1boat

30th August 2009, 20:31

Neither I mate!
I just like what you are writing I don't blaim you...
You are the first one who welcomed me in thread F1 with quotes and answers in my questions!
I feel you are my friend :)

Thank you very much! You are officially a member of my Buddy list then :)
And as a friend I will share with you that yesterday I was on a Madonna concert and it was a brilliant evening, which I will likely remember forever and today Ferrari won for the holiday of my name (namesday?) and I feel great, really! Forza Kimi!

jimakos

30th August 2009, 20:38

Thank you very much! You are officially a member of my Buddy list then :)
And as a friend I will share with you that yesterday I was on a Madonna concert and it was a brilliant evening, which I will likely remember forever and today Ferrari won for the holiday of my name (namesday?) and I feel great, really! Forza Kimi!

Now we are talking mate!
I'm too really happy with Ferrari's win and Kimi's also!
My favorite driver after MS is Massa!
And look what happened to him :eek:
Now just support Kimi as long as Fellipe comes back :D

F1boat

30th August 2009, 20:45

I like both Felipe and Kimi, Felipe is very likable and seems like a very nice guy. But Kimi is simply uber-cool, like a superhero :) Iceman!

ioan

30th August 2009, 20:53

But Kimi is simply uber-cool, like a superhero :) Iceman!

:rotflmao:

jens

30th August 2009, 21:31

Who was driving the second Renalt today - again?

Honestly, Grosjean is looking like Piquet and these are not circuits he is unfamiliar with. He clanged into Button after qualifying poorly - I can only imagine what Piquet is shouting at the television screen watching at home in Brazil!

Lets see how Grosjean does at Monza. Surely he can do something to demonstrate he is worthy of being teammate to Alonso.

It was you, who wanted to see as many rookie drivers in F1 as possible, so you shouldn't complain. :p :

Garry Walker

30th August 2009, 22:31

Let's make things clear:

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 2-2008.pdf (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/0F0F8C66C7F4661DC125753C0056E87E/$FILE/1-2009%20F1%20SPORTING%20REGULATIONS%2012-12-2008.pdf)

The FIA International Sporting Code Regulation Appendix L says in CHAPTER IV - CODE OF DRIVING CONDUCT ON CIRCUITS:

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... .07.20.pdf (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/2A9404B6E4C8FE4EC12575FA00440479/$FILE/Annexe%20L_2009_09.07.20.pdf)

You can't say that I didn't show you what the rules say, and I might add it's very detailed and clear for once!

Kimi should have been penalized for that move, no question.

If that move had been pulled by Massa, Heidfeld or Vettel you would be singing a different tune.

Out of curiosity, what is your view on Schumacher overtaking Trulli using the outside of the track at Hockhenheim 2003 and of him cutting the chicane at Hungary 2006 to stay ahead of Pedro and Heidfeld?
Or what about Massa vs kubica at Fuji in 2007? Penalty for Massa?

BDunnell

30th August 2009, 22:42

Garry Walker

30th August 2009, 22:44

Exactly right, but I think we know what the response will be.

Indeed.
I will also add that the outside of that corner has been used by many drivers many times after the start, because there simply is no room often anywhere else.

That Ioan has taken in his head to go on an all-out attack on kimi is just him voicing his frustrations for Kimi winning and possibly being afraid that Alonso will replace Massa instead of Kimi.

F1boat

30th August 2009, 22:46

Kimi is a great driver and I am really happy that he won in Spa and hopefully he and Massa will race for Ferrari next year. Alonso is great driver, but IMO their current pairing is good enough.

ioan

30th August 2009, 23:28

If that move had been pulled by Massa, Heidfeld or Vettel you would be singing a different tune.

Prove it.
Making allegation is easy, it's all you do always, let's see you prove it.

Garry Walker

30th August 2009, 23:39

Prove it.
Making allegation is easy, it's all you do always, let's see you prove it.

You did not answer my questions, weakling.

ioan

30th August 2009, 23:42

You did not answer my questions, weakling.

There's nothing to answer, your question was wrong.
How do you prove that the driver in front gained an advantage by cutting a chicane?! You can't because it can't be quantified as long as he didn't gained a position.

How do you prove that a driver behind gained an advantage? Simple he gained a position.

Any other 'smart' questions?!

Now, prove your allegations weakling!

Kevincal

30th August 2009, 23:44

I watched the move Kimi made on the WAY outside of the RUNOFF frame by frame. He did this to (cheaply / cheatingly) keep his momentum / speed higher than everyone else who atleast attempted to make the sharp turn, and Kimi overtook 2 cars doing this... Right away I was thinking for sure there would be a stop / go penalty, or SOMETHING... Oh well. Kimi drove one hell of a dirty first lap, that's for sure.

ioan

30th August 2009, 23:46

Garry Walker

30th August 2009, 23:49

There's nothing to answer, your question was wrong.
How do you prove that the driver in front gained an advantage by cutting a chicane?! You can't because it can't be quantified as long as he didn't gained a position.You can, because he maintained the position he otherwise would have lost.

How do you prove that a driver behind gained an advantage? Simple he gained a position. Which is exactly what Massa did at Fuji 2007 and what Schumacher did at Hockhenheim 2003. Should they have been penalized?

Any other 'smart' questions?!No, because they would only be followed by stupid answers.

Now, prove your allegations weakling! I have.
You see nothing wrong with Massa using the outside of the tarmac to finish ahead of Kubica at Fuji 2007. You said nothing about that being worthy of getting penalized.
1:0

BDunnell

30th August 2009, 23:50

:up:
Everyone with a common sense thought just that.

Taking rather a lot on yourself with that remark, aren't you?

truefan72

31st August 2009, 00:00

Question is why a track such as Spa cannot afford the race to continue?

Is it the price or has something changed and f1 is now in a structural decline. Europe is a changed place and especially the rise in political correctness and the nonsensical green movement may be having an impact too.

Even in the United States today, with the rise of the leftists into power, masculine pursuits such as motor racing is not encouraged generally. Although in the South Nascar is the strongest series and maybe its because the rest of the country is so "girlyish".

Boys these days are encouraged to play with dolls - I mean "action hero figurtes" and when last did anyone see a toy gun be given as a gift? The parents - dad probably wears slip ons without socks - would have a double conuption.

So by extension maybe people are beginnnig to see racing as "nasty to the environment" and so the collapse continues.

At the end maybe dictatorship-like countries is the only way f1 can survive and Bernie is right?!

a masterpiece of nonsense

Tazio

31st August 2009, 00:04

Some of you guys are dreaming The car in front of Kimi pracically had its front wheels across the line while diagonalto the racing line . If kimi wanted to lose about 3 or 4 placed he could have waited untill The car in front was righted and carry on. I honestly believe Kimi was woried about someone behind him slamming into him while the car in front lolligaged. That's why it's a racing icident because you are granted leeway at the first an sometimes second corner!

Saint Devote

31st August 2009, 00:08

It was you, who wanted to see as many rookie drivers in F1 as possible, so you shouldn't complain. :p :

I did not say that. I said that f1 is about the best and those that cannot maintain the level ought to be replaced. I also used Briatore as one of my examples to demonstrate this.

Wiriting anymore on this will only be repeating myself.

ioan

31st August 2009, 00:15

Some of you guys are dreaming The car in front of Kimi pracically had its front wheels across the line while diagonalto the racing line . If kimi wanted to lose about 3 or 4 placed he could have waited untill The car in front was righted and carry on.

I wonder what he would have done if there was grass or kitty litter instead of a tarmac run off?!

BTW he did it last season too, which makes me believe that he did premeditate this move and this makes it much worse.

airshifter

31st August 2009, 01:10

If that move had been pulled by Massa, Heidfeld or Vettel you would be singing a different tune.

Out of curiosity, what is your view on Schumacher overtaking Trulli using the outside of the track at Hockhenheim 2003 and of him cutting the chicane at Hungary 2006 to stay ahead of Pedro and Heidfeld?
Or what about Massa vs kubica at Fuji in 2007? Penalty for Massa?

Only Kimi should get the penalty! :laugh:

I do think that on all of the above and today with Kimi, drivers gained advantage while off the track surface proper. I don't like the way the rule is written, and they should find a better way to ensure it doesn't keep happening.

I do think in most of the cases the driver finds themselves off and continues to race to their full capability without intent of heading off the track to gain an advantage. I questioned that today until they showed the replay from inside Kimi's car. There were already parts flying from cars to the inside, and I think his original lack of turn in at the corner was assuming that there would be large scale carnage on the apex.

As a Kimi supporter I still think the rule sucks, it simply has thus far sucked in a fair way.

wedge

31st August 2009, 01:23

Saint Devote

31st August 2009, 01:50

Viewing the grand prix again it is evident that Raikonnen using his Spa experience - and I suggested that either he or Hamilton would be the likely winners today :-] - and was simply avoiding the two cars alongside him as they went into Le Source [they collided].

Also, if you watch carefully he did not gain any position and slotted back into line.

Earlier I said that Ferrari were looked upon favorably by the stewards and I was wrong. It is clear that Raikonnen were not protested because he did nothing wrong there.

Still wonder why Ferrari would want to see him leave and Massa to remain - maybe that is another reason why they want a third car so that they will not just look bad if they have to choose. I like who Kimi is and because there is no bs and he is who he is - including a racing driver with amazing ability and it is not difficult for him.

Of course during Enzo Ferrari's time he had no qualms about that and it ultimately led to Lauda leaving after Ermanno Cuoghi was fired. He has also never forgiven Ferrari for firing Regazzoni in the cowardly way that they did.

Interesting also is that Lauda recently stated that whilst driving for the Scuderia it was not an especially enjoyable time because there were always people looking to backstab. If you read about Vaccarella he shared similar sentiments.

ShiftingGears

31st August 2009, 01:57

That's normal, next race they will announce Alonso for 2010.

You seem quite confident about this. I am assuming it is based on rumours, but certainly Kimi's body language suggests it.

Saint Devote

31st August 2009, 02:22

You seem quite confident about this. I am assuming it is based on rumours, but certainly Kimi's body language suggests it.

Firing Kimi will be one of the most stupid things to do. In a competitive car can they imagine that head to head Massa would beat him?

Of course it could be Alonso not wanting someone that could beat him iin the same team as a requirement for signing.

Not many drivers are like Senna and Prost or Raikonnen that do not care who drives alongside and not interested in team orders.

Kimi's revenge in my view would be to rejoin Mclaren alongside Hamilton. I think Hamilton is another driver that has no qualms about who the other driver is.

Also, Mclaren are the most ideally suited team because Whitmarsh manages the team better than Dennis where drivers are concerned. It is now really a team with two "independant" drivers an nobody favored simply as a rule.

ShiftingGears

31st August 2009, 02:35

Not many drivers are like Senna and Prost or Raikonnen that do not care who drives alongside and not interested in team orders.

Prost was vetoing drivers like Senna and Mansell. He was not one who did not care who he raced with.

Tazio

31st August 2009, 03:07

It's just like NASCAR and the yellow line rule - it creates more problems.

If La Source was surrounded by armco you'd get a pile up a la Loews hairpin/Monaco.

Word! :up:

mstillhere

31st August 2009, 03:08

Still wonder why Ferrari would want to see him leave and Massa to remain.

Hi there,

I actually think that's a little suspicious that as soon as Massa is out Kimi all of the sudden is scoring race after race and the underdevelloped Ferrrari found new pace.

I know I have no hard data/proof in my hands to factually support what I am saying, and I know that Kimi has a special thing with Spa, but it has been corculating the thought that Kimi stopped being "Kimi" as soon as Massa, whose manager is Todt's son, got in the picture.

However, mistery or not, facts are facts: Massa is out and Kimi is back on the podium. You do the math.

Saint Devote

31st August 2009, 03:09

Prost was vetoing drivers like Senna and Mansell. He was not one who did not care who he raced with.

Where do you get that from? Besides which your timing is all confused - for example: Mansell was with Ferrari before Prost joined for a start so how would Prost veto Mansell and when he joined he beat Mansell significantly.

It was Prost that recommended Senna to Mclaren in 1984. He never had qualms. In fact it was Piquet that prevented Bernie from signing Senna to Brabham - so he went to Mclaren.

I have no idea where you read that but if you read extensively books from that era and interviews by both Prost and Lauda as well you will see that Alain Prost never ever vetoed anyone.

And if you know anythng about Ron Dennis, it is that drivers never dictated to him.

Lauda in fact recently joked how when Prost arrived at Mclaren he busted his balls and then when Senna arrived Prost received the same!

ShiftingGears

31st August 2009, 03:52

Where do you get that from? Besides which your timing is all confused - for example: Mansell was with Ferrari before Prost joined for a start so how would Prost veto Mansell and when he joined he beat Mansell significantly.

It was Prost that recommended Senna to Mclaren in 1984. He never had qualms. In fact it was Piquet that prevented Bernie from signing Senna to Brabham - so he went to Mclaren.

I have no idea where you read that but if you read extensively books from that era and interviews by both Prost and Lauda as well you will see that Alain Prost never ever vetoed anyone.

And if you know anythng about Ron Dennis, it is that drivers never dictated to him.

Lauda in fact recently joked how when Prost arrived at Mclaren he busted his balls and then when Senna arrived Prost received the same!

I am not talking about Ferrari or McLaren, I am talking about Williams. I will have links later.

Saint Devote

31st August 2009, 03:54

Hi there,

I actually think that's a little suspicious that as soon as Massa is out Kimi all of the sudden is scoring race after race and the underdevelloped Ferrrari found new pace.

I know I have no hard data/proof in my hands to factually support what I am saying, and I know that Kimi has a special thing with Spa, but it has been corculating the thought that Kimi stopped being "Kimi" as soon as Massa, whose manager is Todt's son, got in the picture.

However, mistery or not, facts are facts: Massa is out and Kimi is back on the podium. You do the math.

What you have described is the quinessential Raikonnen enigma for so many people. And there is no answer because he is such private character and I like that about him as well.

I do think that he is often misjudged and perhaps more from frustration than anything else. I think the best way is just to accept him the way he is.

If he had had a better Mclaren he would have won by now over 20 grands prix and two championships at least. The team tehre let him down - inasmuch that in 2007 he won not because teh Ferrari was the best car, but that he drove his usual way and Mclaren drove into themselves with the Alonso histrionics and sublime ability of newbie Hamilton.

Kimi is a driver I think in the Ronnie Peterson mold [it is easy for me to imagine Raikonnen also in the Lotus 72 opposite locking and drifting in a wonderful oversteer around the old Woodcote corner at Silverstone at 160 mph] - not interested in the technical side and will drive a car as best it suits him.

Interesting also is that he acts more like the old style driver - which I prefer - no PARENTS in the pits. His mother and father were at the race today sitting in the grandstand amongst the public at Le Source.

I am sure noone there realized that Kimi's parents were sittting next to them :-]

Saint Devote

31st August 2009, 04:05

I am not talking about Ferrari or McLaren, I am talking about Williams. I will have links later.

Mansell and Prost were never teammates at Williams. Prost arrived after Mansell retired from f1 and went to race in the US.

And if you are about to suggest that Frank Williams was ever dictated to by a driver, then you do not know how Frank Williams and Patrick Head manage their team or history.

Valve Bounce

31st August 2009, 05:54

How did all this get into the Spa 2009 thread? and where's the extended discussion about Fisi? who drove a magnificent race?
I think this thread has been hijacked! :(

pino

31st August 2009, 07:24

Please let's keep this on topic...thank you :)

ioan

31st August 2009, 08:06

Firing Kimi will be one of the most stupid things to do. In a competitive car can they imagine that head to head Massa would beat him?

Happened in 2008, no need for imagination (that you lack anyway).

CaptainRaiden

31st August 2009, 08:37

The Belgian GP 2009 start, this time onboard from Kimi's car. 0:54 to 1:06.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS2sdXx08-Y

It's as clear as it could be, that he did NOT gain any places or an advantage by going offline. Just listen to the in car sound, the revs go down quite a bit, suggesting how much he braked. He even tried to turn completely, but couldn't because A) he went in too hot, and B) If he would have slowed down, he would have lost more places or created an accident by turning into Trulli.

When Kimi rejoins the track, he comes exactly alongside Trulli, the same as it was at La Source, when him, Trulli and Kubica went three abreast. And when he rejoins the track, he clearly has the inside line going into Eau Rouge, and had the balls to go flat out. After that, he takes Kubica, thanks to the KERS button. Hence, gains another place. What happened at Les Combes, was more Trulli's fault, because he ran into the back of Kimi. He should have been more circumspect about a car rejoining the track in front of him. How you guys blame Kimi again for that is mind boggling.

PLUS, he picked up dirt on his tyres by going off track, as Coulthard suggested. So, if anything, it was kind of a disadvantage, because he could have lost speed or worse, spun. But hey, I'm sure the armchair experts here know better, and would have something against Coulthard's opinion too. Who is he afterall? And while you're on that, what do you think he'll gain by defending a Ferrari driver?

The important thing here is that he didn't cut or straightline a chicane, which is an obvious advantage. He in fact took the longer route, and also risked the car's underbody by going over the kerbs, and a risk of spinning on the dirty tarmac offline. People who think this was worthy of a penalty, obviously have something against Kimi.

Valve Bounce

31st August 2009, 11:24

Happened in 2008, no need for imagination (that you lack anyway).

No need to be snippy. You don't need to insult other forum members, just because they have been cannonised.

Valve Bounce

31st August 2009, 11:27

F1boat

31st August 2009, 11:37

No need to be snippy. You don't need to insult other forum members, just because they have been cannonised.

This is preposterous. How can he insult other members like this?

Valve Bounce

31st August 2009, 11:40

This is preposterous. How can he insult other members like this?

I don't know. :confused: Maybe they have a long standing arrangement.

Kimi is one of my favorites, and if anyone wants to criticise him, they should at least get their facts straight.

Saint Devote

31st August 2009, 11:41

I wonder what he would have done if there was grass or kitty litter instead of a tarmac run off?!

BTW he did it last season too, which makes me believe that he did premeditate this move and this makes it much worse.

"Premeditated" is melodramatic description that implies he did something wrong.

If you watch carefully you will see that he moved to avoid two colliding cars and as he had already won there three times, as well as being an experienced "Spa-meester" he knew what to do - and he gained no positions.

The stewards were correct in their decision and that none of theteams protested his action.

Raikonnen acted as an experienced skilled racing driver.

ioan

31st August 2009, 11:44

"Premeditated" is melodramatic description that implies he did something wrong.

Premeditated has nothing melodramatic and means something else than what you apparently think it means:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/premeditated

Valve Bounce

31st August 2009, 11:45

What's a Spa-meester? Is he any relation to Bar Mitzva? :p :

Saint Devote

31st August 2009, 13:07

What's a Spa-meester? Is he any relation to Bar Mitzva? :p :

:-]
Even better - for me it is the master of Spa [meester is master in flemish or Afrikaans - languages pretty close to each other].

I used the term because Kimi has now equalled the great Jim Clark in the number of wins at the track, four.

wedge

31st August 2009, 13:20

People who think this was worthy of a penalty, obviously have something against Kimi.

Had Kimi been driving a non-KERS car I think it would've generated lesser controversy.

Valve Bounce

31st August 2009, 13:58

:-]
Even better - for me it is the master of Spa [meester is master in flemish or Afrikaans - languages pretty close to each other].

I used the term because Kimi has now equalled the great Jim Clark in the number of wins at the track, four.

WOW!! I thought Kimi was Finnish. Maybe we can find some title for him in Chinese too.

Valve Bounce

31st August 2009, 13:59

Had Kimi been driving a non-KERS car I think it would've generated lesser controversy.

..............and less oomph!! Ya!

Wim_Impreza

31st August 2009, 14:43

Yupi...........

I'm so glad to hear that Raikkonen won the race!
I had a lot of confidence to him!
Thanks F1boat...

If you see what he did after the first corner, then you could see that he didn't deserved the win. He drove so much run off the circuit there and gain positions, he deserves a penalty.

Very strange that no one of the FIA has seen this, but of course it is again a Ferrari. Second year in a row that Ferrari don't deserve to win in Spa.

F1boat

31st August 2009, 15:59

Sour grapes :)

ClarkFan

31st August 2009, 22:26

:-]
Even better - for me it is the master of Spa [meester is master in flemish or Afrikaans - languages pretty close to each other].

I used the term because Kimi has now equalled the great Jim Clark in the number of wins at the track, four.
Yes, but it isn't the track it was then. On balance, that is good because the toll was terrible. But the challenge to a driver's self-belief is much less.

ClarkFan

Triumph

31st August 2009, 22:31

If you see what he did after the first corner, then you could see that he didn't deserved the win. He drove so much run off the circuit there and gain positions, he deserves a penalty.

Very strange that no one of the FIA has seen this, but of course it is again a Ferrari. Second year in a row that Ferrari don't deserve to win in Spa.

I seem to remember last year it being mentioned that the drivers risked a penalty if they used that part of the track. I may be imagining things though! Maybe someone else remembers this.

Nothing was mentioned this year, which I was fully expecting. Maybe last year's nonsense was all tied-in with the Impede Hamilton quest that was being conducted at a high level.

:)

ClarkFan

31st August 2009, 22:40

It's just like NASCAR and the yellow line rule - it creates more problems.

If La Source was surrounded by armco you'd get a pile up a la Loews hairpin/Monaco.
I am a bit surprised they continue to start the race on that side of La Source. Starting on the other side would give a little more chance for the drivers to sort themselves before the mad scramble for the first real corner at Les Combes. In fact, the start/finish line on the old monster layout was on the other side of La Source from where it is now.

ClarkFan

ioan

31st August 2009, 23:16

I am a bit surprised they continue to start the race on that side of La Source. Starting on the other side would give a little more chance for the drivers to sort themselves before the mad scramble for the first real corner at Les Combes. In fact, the start/finish line on the old monster layout was on the other side of La Source from where it is now.

ClarkFan

It's only done for the SHOW. There are people out there who think that a few bits flying left and right is great racing and Bernie is aiming more for those than for the few knowledgeable fans out there. :\

BDunnell

1st September 2009, 00:00

ioan, how far back do you think this insistence upon the 'show' rather than safety goes? I would suggest that the start at Spa has been in the same place for a rather longer period than your current concern for safety, which seems to date back no further than an incident that happened to involve Massa, has been in existence for. Had that incident involved, say, Button, we wouldn't have heard a peep out of you on the subject, I bet.

keysersoze

1st September 2009, 03:46

The Belgian GP 2009 start, this time onboard from Kimi's car. 0:54 to 1:06.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS2sdXx08-Y
He in fact took the longer route, and also risked the car's underbody by going over the kerbs, and a risk of spinning on the dirty tarmac offline. People who think this was worthy of a penalty, obviously have something against Kimi.

And "in fact" the longer route can be quicker. :rolleyes:

"Risked the car's underbody by going over the kerbs?" Um, every driver uses the kerbs.

"Risk of spinning?" Aren't you being a bit dramatic with that one?

So if one thinks Kimi deserves a penalty then it's "obvious" that person has something against him? Please explain your "logic," and I use that term very loosely.

Valve Bounce

1st September 2009, 04:58

jimakos

1st September 2009, 11:17

I would like to ask what this KERS is exactly?
If anyone can explain I would be glad...

SGWilko

1st September 2009, 11:22

I would like to ask what this KERS is exactly?
If anyone can explain I would be glad...

Kinetic Energy Recovery System. Two types are allowed;

Flywheel - which stores rotational energy in a spinning mass (think of friction toy car - push it along to build up the flywheel speed, then let go and it continues.

Electric - Stores power that is otherwise wasted when car is braking. Power is harvested by a 'motor' that is attached to the engine. Power is then deployed - I think - by the same motor, to give a HP advantage.

Both can be used for a maximum of 6 seconds a lap.

Simples ;)

jimakos

1st September 2009, 11:26

Kinetic Energy Recovery System. Two types are allowed;

Flywheel - which stores rotational energy in a spinning mass (think of friction toy car - push it along to build up the flywheel speed, then let go and it continues.

Electric - Stores power that is otherwise wasted when car is braking. Power is harvested by a 'motor' that is attached to the engine. Power is then deployed - I think - by the same motor, to give a HP advantage.

Both can be used for a maximum of 6 seconds a lap.

Simples ;)

Thanks a lot mate!
I understood exactly what KERS are about!
Why Kers used only from Raikkonen in Spa?
Others teams can't use this system?

SGWilko

1st September 2009, 11:34

Thanks a lot mate!
I understood exactly what KERS are about!
Why Kers used only from Raikkonen in Spa?
Others teams can't use this system?

All teams are allowed to use it, but not all either have access to;

the funds to design and build their own, or

the desire to compromise car design to run it, or

the ability to make theirs work - see BMW, big clanger dropped here IMVHO.

There is a 25kg minimum weight penalty alone, and packaging the three elements - motor, batteries and control unit.

It has taken the two big champions of KERS - Ferrari and McLaren half the season to get their car properly balanced with the KERS in-situ. But kudos to them, especially Ferrari who had some initial smokey failures, for keeping the faith.

jimakos

1st September 2009, 11:46

All teams are allowed to use it, but not all either have access to;

the funds to design and build their own, or

the desire to compromise car design to run it, or

the ability to make theirs work - see BMW, big clanger dropped here IMVHO.

There is a 25kg minimum weight penalty alone, and packaging the three elements - motor, batteries and control unit.

It has taken the two big champions of KERS - Ferrari and McLaren half the season to get their car properly balanced with the KERS in-situ. But kudos to them, especially Ferrari who had some initial smokey failures, for keeping the faith.

You really know a lot about F1!
Thanks for your help...
One reason that Kimi won Spa I heard was Kers,right?
Maybe and other teams have to put it in their plans ;)

SGWilko

1st September 2009, 12:02

You really know a lot about F1!
Thanks for your help...
One reason that Kimi won Spa I heard was Kers,right?
Maybe and other teams have to put it in their plans ;)

Don't be fooled - I just watch too much TV!!!

All in all, yes. KERS was the factor - certainly at the restart, that allowed Kimi to pass Fisi. Surprisingly, the Force India was the fastest car out there at the weekend, so if the Ferrari had no KERS, then, all things being equal, Fisi would have won.

As it stands with KERS, it is still technically allowed, but not compulsory for 2010. The FOTA teams have all thus far agreed to not use it, as they want to cut costs etc. Williams certainly wants to keep up development and future use of their system, so have stuck their oar in and vetoed a unanimous ban for 2010.

jimakos

1st September 2009, 12:12

Don't be fooled - I just watch too much TV!!!

All in all, yes. KERS was the factor - certainly at the restart, that allowed Kimi to pass Fisi. Surprisingly, the Force India was the fastest car out there at the weekend, so if the Ferrari had no KERS, then, all things being equal, Fisi would have won.

As it stands with KERS, it is still technically allowed, but not compulsory for 2010. The FOTA teams have all thus far agreed to not use it, as they want to cut costs etc. Williams certainly wants to keep up development and future use of their system, so have stuck their oar in and vetoed a unanimous ban for 2010.

Do you think that without Kers Kimi didn't have any possibilities for the win?
I think Kers was just a + for the victory!
Raikkonen won because of his skills :)
Of course Kers helped him but didn't give him the win...

SGWilko

1st September 2009, 12:19

Do you think that without Kers Kimi didn't have any possibilities for the win?
I think Kers was just a + for the victory!
Raikkonen won because of his skills :)
Of course Kers helped him but didn't give him the win...

I take nothing away from Kimi, he made no mistakes despite constant pressure. But, I think that, without KERS, Kimi would be second...

ioan

1st September 2009, 12:23

I take nothing away from Kimi, he made no mistakes despite constant pressure. But, I think that, without KERS, Kimi would be second...

Yep, 2nd at best without KERS and without that debatable 1st corner move he might have been only 3rd behind Trulli.

jimakos

1st September 2009, 12:25

I take nothing away from Kimi, he made no mistakes despite constant pressure. But, I think that, without KERS, Kimi would be second...

Iceman is able for the best and for the worst!!
That's why I support him so much... :)

SGWilko

1st September 2009, 12:29

that debatable 1st corner move

This is a grey area. Is it deemed off circuit there?

Remember a certain N Mansell in a Ferrari (proper one, with V12 and a nice high pitch wail, that Spa was built for!!!) used that line in the wet.

Has this been formally outlawed since?

jimakos

1st September 2009, 12:34

Out of our conversation:

Do anyone know when pickems results will be published?

ioan

1st September 2009, 13:06

This is a grey area. Is it deemed off circuit there?

Anything outside the white lines is not deemed to be part o the track, Even the curbs are deemed not to be part of the track.

PS: Even the grand stands are part of the circuit. ;)

Has this been formally outlawed since?

Any move outside the circuit that gives an advantage no matter if small or big has been definitely outlawed last year after Spa. Or at least that's what my common sense says.

wedge

1st September 2009, 14:05

I am a bit surprised they continue to start the race on that side of La Source. Starting on the other side would give a little more chance for the drivers to sort themselves before the mad scramble for the first real corner at Les Combes. In fact, the start/finish line on the old monster layout was on the other side of La Source from where it is now.

ClarkFan

Eau Rouge is also a bottle neck. Even someone as daring as Hamilton backed off against Alonso in 2007 went into Eau Rouge single file.

CaptainRaiden

1st September 2009, 14:30

And "in fact" the longer route can be quicker. :rolleyes:

It seems you have trouble understanding pure and simple English, or maybe you simply don't want to. The longer route can be quicker, but not when it's dirty. He would simply not have the same traction as on the clean side of the track for rapid acceleration, and hence no advantage gained.

It's not as if he was already in the fourth gear and was carrying good enough speed. He was accelerating from a lower gear, and with no rubber left on that side of the track over the weekend, he just simply wouldn't have the grip required. There is a reason why they stick to the clean side of the track, you know? Even the biggest noobs know this much.

"Risked the car's underbody by going over the kerbs?" Um, every driver uses the kerbs.

Um, did he go over the kerbs normally? I guess I should have said "across" the kerbs. But what part of it did you not understand after watching the video? He clearly bounced across over the kerbs to the dirty side of the track. If he went in too hot, he could have damaged the underbody or maybe even damage the front wing, a la Trulli during winter testing in Paul Ricard, going over the kerbs.

"Risk of spinning?" Aren't you being a bit dramatic with that one?

Have you ever tried to make a slow hairpin turn at a higher speed than required? Try to do that tonight in your station wagon, and you may get the answer. :rolleyes:

So if one thinks Kimi deserves a penalty then it's "obvious" that person has something against him? Please explain your "logic," and I use that term very loosely.

Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain the obvious, which it seems only you are having trouble understanding. First of all, it's Tuesday, and so far not even "ONE" of the other 9 teams have lodged any kind of protest or a complaint. The least of all, Force India and Red Bull, who would gain massively by Kimi's disqualification.

NONE of the drivers or team personnel have come forth and expressed their dissatisfaction over the "illegal" :rolleyes: move in ANY of their interviews, including the drivers whom he overtook using the "massive" :rotflmao: advantage going offline, namely Trulli, Kubica on the first lap, and Fisichella after the safety car period.

David Coulthard, who has no affiliations with Ferrari, or any friends there, in fact quite the opposite, said that Kimi gained no advantage going offline. And I would trust him, because well, he's been an F1 driver for more than a decade and knows what he's talking about.

So, it's MORE than obvious that the so called armchair "experts" (it's an insult to the word expert), who deem the move illegal, have absolutely no friggin idea what they're talking about, because they don't have access to any team telemetry data to assess whether or not Kimi carried extra speed when he rejoined the track.

Then there are the hypocrites who would shush their pie holes if either Schumacher or Massa did this. It's borderline insane that the same guys are okay with Schumacher punting off rivals off track, putting their lives in danger and winning championships, calling him a genius, but have a problem with such a miniscule thing. Pfft! So, the only possible explanation for anybody having a problem with this is simple, they are either Kimi haters, or non-Kimi fans, but Ferrari haters.

Oh, but maybe you know something which us mere mortals don't. Maybe he picked up some mysterious magic dust thrown there by a wizard employed by Ferrari, and that gave the Ferrari V10 a burst of unimaginable power. :rolleyes:

Sonic

1st September 2009, 14:53

Eau Rouge is also a bottle neck. Even someone as daring as Hamilton backed off against Alonso in 2007 went into Eau Rouge single file.

Nah, only girls back off there! :D

Seriously though, did anyone see the GP2 guy pass someone round the outside of eau rouge?? Never saw a replay so I never figured out who it was but his car was bucking and kicking and he held it! :eek: Totally awesome. Give that man an F1 seat!

Firstgear

1st September 2009, 15:48

....... and that gave the Ferrari V10 a burst of unimaginable power. :rolleyes:

This alone should be enough of a reason to disqualify him. The reg's state all engines must be 2.4L - V8's. ;)

ClarkFan

1st September 2009, 16:01

And "in fact" the longer route can be quicker. :rolleyes:

"Risked the car's underbody by going over the kerbs?" Um, every driver uses the kerbs.

"Risk of spinning?" Aren't you being a bit dramatic with that one?
I guess that I am seeing that footage differently than you are.

First, on the pull back video it does look like KR needed to go outside the line to avoid another car. (Trulli? I don't recall and FOM has managed to get the video taken down.) KR was beside that car and it used full track out exiting La Source - the only way to avoid it was to go over the white line.

Once over the line, KR did "have a moment" when the car wanted to go around, probably because the tarmac was slicker. In the Ferrari cockpit he can clearly be seen countersteering to correct an incipient slide - he probably had to let off at this point, too. So any additional momentum was probably killed at that point and he was losing ground to the cars inside the line.

Once off, had he immediately re-merged onto the track that would have caused a really big pile-up, as he was slower than the cars behind. KR needed to regain some speed and merge back before the guard rail came in, which he did.

It may be a violation of the track rules, but what KR did appeared to be necessary and didn't generate any net gain for him relative to his position at the apex of La Source. And the organizers really need to start the race on the other side of the hairpin!

ClarkFan

ClarkFan

1st September 2009, 16:05

Yep, 2nd at best without KERS and without that debatable 1st corner move he might have been only 3rd behind Trulli.
No, Trulli was done by that point. He had already clashed wheels with Heidfield and sustained the damage that pushed him down the field.

ClarkFan

ClarkFan

1st September 2009, 16:11

Eau Rouge is also a bottle neck. Even someone as daring as Hamilton backed off against Alonso in 2007 went into Eau Rouge single file.
Any first corner is going to be a bottle neck. A slow first corner combines that feature with drivers trying to pull off moves because the corner is slow. A corner where line is key due to speed probably encourages the drivers to sort out and line up rather than trying the 3-abreast moves that lead to pile-ups.

Of course, if someone pulls an idiot move like Grosjean there is no helping that. :\

ClarkFan

ioan

1st September 2009, 16:24

No, Trulli was done by that point. He had already clashed wheels with Heidfield and sustained the damage that pushed him down the field.

ClarkFan

Huh?
What race were you watching there? Kimi almost took out (when he made a slight mistake) Trulli in Les Combes, I wonder how was that possible if Trulli was done by that point?!

ClarkFan

1st September 2009, 16:37

Huh?
What race were you watching there? Kimi almost took out (when he made a slight mistake) Trulli in Les Combes, I wonder how was that possible if Trulli was done by that point?!
Trull and Heidfield tangled going into La Source. I'd say "look at the video" but it has already been taken down. :\

ClarkFan

F1boat

1st September 2009, 16:50

Oh, the horror! Kimi is not to blame for the swine flu either!

555-04Q2

1st September 2009, 17:03

I have no problem with the way Kimi took the outside line off the track. Its been done dozens of times before. But he did gain an advantage, to say he didnt is crazy. He did not have to slow down the way the drivers who made the corner did. Watch the replay and you will he carries his momentum which is an advantage for traction on the exit. We also have to keep in mind though that the KERS system definetely was the main reason that he was able to get up to the front so easily, not the wide line.

SGWilko

1st September 2009, 17:30

We also have to keep in mind though that the KERS system definetely was the main reason that he was able to get up to the front so easily, not the wide line.

Did he take the wide line;

to use KERS to the best effect?

or

because Mars was crossing Pluto?

ioan

1st September 2009, 18:23

Trull and Heidfield tangled going into La Source. I'd say "look at the video" but it has already been taken down. :\

ClarkFan

AFAIK Heidfeld tangled with Kubica while Trulli was safely through. Meanwhile Kimi decided that overtaking outside the track is easier as you don't have to acrually deal with the other cars just outdrag them using KERS.

ioan

1st September 2009, 18:24

Did he take the wide line;

to use KERS to the best effect?

or

because Mars was crossing Pluto?

In fact it was in order to carry more speed through the corner using a larger radius than allowed by the track's layout.

DonJippo

1st September 2009, 19:49

AFAIK Heidfeld tangled with Kubica while Trulli was safely through.

No Heidfeld tangled with Trulli while Kubica was safely through to be passed by Kimi at Les Combes.

keysersoze

2nd September 2009, 01:11

It seems you have trouble understanding pure and simple English, or maybe you simply don't want to. The longer route can be quicker, but not when it's dirty. He would simply not have the same traction as on the clean side of the track for rapid acceleration, and hence no advantage gained.

It's not as if he was already in the fourth gear and was carrying good enough speed. He was accelerating from a lower gear, and with no rubber left on that side of the track over the weekend, he just simply wouldn't have the grip required. There is a reason why they stick to the clean side of the track, you know? Even the biggest noobs know this much.

Um, did he go over the kerbs normally? I guess I should have said "across" the kerbs. But what part of it did you not understand after watching the video? He clearly bounced across over the kerbs to the dirty side of the track. If he went in too hot, he could have damaged the underbody or maybe even damage the front wing, a la Trulli during winter testing in Paul Ricard, going over the kerbs.

Have you ever tried to make a slow hairpin turn at a higher speed than required? Try to do that tonight in your station wagon, and you may get the answer. :rolleyes:

Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain the obvious, which it seems only you are having trouble understanding. First of all, it's Tuesday, and so far not even "ONE" of the other 9 teams have lodged any kind of protest or a complaint. The least of all, Force India and Red Bull, who would gain massively by Kimi's disqualification.

NONE of the drivers or team personnel have come forth and expressed their dissatisfaction over the "illegal" :rolleyes: move in ANY of their interviews, including the drivers whom he overtook using the "massive" :rotflmao: advantage going offline, namely Trulli, Kubica on the first lap, and Fisichella after the safety car period.

David Coulthard, who has no affiliations with Ferrari, or any friends there, in fact quite the opposite, said that Kimi gained no advantage going offline. And I would trust him, because well, he's been an F1 driver for more than a decade and knows what he's talking about.

So, it's MORE than obvious that the so called armchair "experts" (it's an insult to the word expert), who deem the move illegal, have absolutely no friggin idea what they're talking about, because they don't have access to any team telemetry data to assess whether or not Kimi carried extra speed when he rejoined the track.

Then there are the hypocrites who would shush their pie holes if either Schumacher or Massa did this. It's borderline insane that the same guys are okay with Schumacher punting off rivals off track, putting their lives in danger and winning championships, calling him a genius, but have a problem with such a miniscule thing. Pfft! So, the only possible explanation for anybody having a problem with this is simple, they are either Kimi haters, or non-Kimi fans, but Ferrari haters.

Oh, but maybe you know something which us mere mortals don't. Maybe he picked up some mysterious magic dust thrown there by a wizard employed by Ferrari, and that gave the Ferrari V10 a burst of unimaginable power. :rolleyes:

Sorry X, I was gone living the other part of my life--which I must continue to do--so I suppose this pissing match must come to an end.

But before I sign off, I must say two things:

1) None of your replies were adequate to reject anything I said, but I respect that you are are an informed spectator; specifically, you spent a great deal of effort trying to prove that I have something against Kimi, and didn't even come close. I'd call it obfuscation.

2) Take note of Clark Fan's restraint in replying. It was exemplary while your was . . . less so.

Saint Devote

2nd September 2009, 04:44

Yes, but it isn't the track it was then. On balance, that is good because the toll was terrible. But the challenge to a driver's self-belief is much less.

ClarkFan

The track has been changed but the redesign has maintained its character.

With corners such as Blanchimont-Raidillon, Eau Rouge, Pouhon into the Fagnes curves and even the test of La Source for example, the track is still a significant challenge and the better drivers will rise to that.

On Sunday the difference was Raikonnen - all the KERS did was even things up a little. But that Ferrari won because of Kimi at the wheel.

Kevincal

2nd September 2009, 06:21

If Kimi had attempted to make the first turn like he was supposed to... He would have come out after the first turn in 5th or 6th place, instead of 3rd. He wouldn't have won the race. Oh well... What they need to do is just put the curbing all the way up to the wall, let them use all of the tarmac there so there won't be any controversy. Then again the F1 bosses love controversy..

CaptainRaiden

2nd September 2009, 09:01

This alone should be enough of a reason to disqualify him. The reg's state all engines must be 2.4L - V8's. ;)

:p Oopsie! I guess I never liked the switch to V8s, and still am living in the era of the V10s, or at least like to do so. :D

Sorry X, I was gone living the other part of my life--which I must continue to do--so I suppose this pissing match must come to an end.

But before I sign off, I must say two things:

1) None of your replies were adequate to reject anything I said, but I respect that you are are an informed spectator; specifically, you spent a great deal of effort trying to prove that I have something against Kimi, and didn't even come close. I'd call it obfuscation.

2) Take note of Clark Fan's restraint in replying. It was exemplary while your was . . . less so.

Well, I am happy that probably you finally understood something, and came out of denial because of who knows what, even if not because of my efforts. And I have to say that ClarkFan's summation was much better and concise than mine.

Have a happy other part! :wave:

ioan

2nd September 2009, 10:50

On Sunday the difference was Raikonnen - all the KERS did was even things up a little. But that Ferrari won because of Kimi at the wheel.

Yeah sure.

555-04Q2

2nd September 2009, 12:52

Did he take the wide line;

to use KERS to the best effect?

or

because Mars was crossing Pluto?

Kimi taking the wide line had nothing to do with the KERS system. He took the wide line to ensure he didnt get taken out at the first corner.

KERS was the MAIN reason he got so far to the front and after the restart, passed Fisi for the lead.

555-04Q2

2nd September 2009, 12:57

On Sunday the difference was Raikonnen - all the KERS did was even things up a little. But that Ferrari won because of Kimi at the wheel.

Yes and No. Kimi loves Spa and is pretty bulletproof there. But Fisi had a faster car, period. The reason Kimi won was he had KERS to make the overtaking manouvre that got him the lead after the restart, the aero problems with following another F1 car kept Fisi at bay in the bends, and KERS ensured that on the main straight he was able to keep Fisi away from his slip stream.

CaptainRaiden

2nd September 2009, 14:00

Sorry not my place really dude, but I think you misunderstood his post.. :)

Thanks.

ClarkFan

2nd September 2009, 15:47

AFAIK Heidfeld tangled with Kubica while Trulli was safely through. Meanwhile Kimi decided that overtaking outside the track is easier as you don't have to acrually deal with the other cars just outdrag them using KERS.
Ioan, note the post-race comments posted Sunday on Motorsport.com:

Jarno Trulli
"I can't say how disappointed I am with that race. I was really expecting a strong result because we were in great shape after qualifying. But at the first corner I was right behind Heidfeld and at the exit I expected him to pull away faster than he did. I'm not sure if he had a problem but I just touched him slightly and that broke the front wing. It was vibrating a lot so I had no choice but to make a pit stop. There was nothing I could do after that and in the end the team saw a problem with brake wear and decided it was safer to stop."

No excuse for not checking online information when you are posting on an online forum..... :rolleyes:

ClarkFan

keysersoze

2nd September 2009, 15:51

Sorry not my place really dude, but I think you misunderstood his post.. :)

You're correct, henners. ;)

ClarkFan

2nd September 2009, 15:51

In fact it was in order to carry more speed through the corner using a larger radius than allowed by the track's layout.
Interesting theory, but the small problem with it is all the cars that passed him at first because Kimi was struggling with traction. It took a KERS blast, the confusion from Barrichello's problems, and the Trulli/Heidfeld contact for him to regain the position he had held when he went off the track.

ClarkFan

ioan

2nd September 2009, 16:14

Ioan, note the post-race comments posted Sunday on Motorsport.com:

Jarno Trulli
"I can't say how disappointed I am with that race. I was really expecting a strong result because we were in great shape after qualifying. But at the first corner I was right behind Heidfeld and at the exit I expected him to pull away faster than he did. I'm not sure if he had a problem but I just touched him slightly and that broke the front wing. It was vibrating a lot so I had no choice but to make a pit stop. There was nothing I could do after that and in the end the team saw a problem with brake wear and decided it was safer to stop."

No excuse for not checking online information when you are posting on an online forum..... :rolleyes:

ClarkFan

My bad. :)

ioan

2nd September 2009, 16:15

Interesting theory, but the small problem with it is all the cars that passed him at first because Kimi was struggling with traction. It took a KERS blast, the confusion from Barrichello's problems, and the Trulli/Heidfeld contact for him to regain the position he had held when he went off the track.

ClarkFan

I didn't see any cars passing him.
You really think he needed more traction when he carried 50 km/h more through the first corner?!

CaptainRaiden

2nd September 2009, 17:20

You're correct, henners. ;)

Probably my bad I guess, was in a hurry in the morning, but that's what happens when you're busy in work. ;) And also, thanks for letting me know you have an "other" part of your life. Sometimes I don't understand why people have to desperately stress that on a public forum. Don't worry, I'm not judging you or even asked if you have a life. :laugh:

Well, if my post didn't sway your opinion, it wasn't supposed to. I just made myself clearer, if that's possible. The rest can be attributed to closed mindedness or just plain denial, or a different way of perceiving things, whatever you may wanna call it.

And I said it's obvious you have something against Kimi, because like I explained already, nobody from the F1 fraternity had any problem, so why would a bunch of fans do? My humble opinion. Either way, I could care less, but thanks for taking a break to read my posts. :)