A brilliant new law in Afganistan

[Brown, Jon Brow]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8204207.stm

An Afghan bill allowing a husband to starve his wife if she refuses to have sex has been published in the official gazette and become law.

The original version obliged Shia women to have sex with their husbands every four days at a minimum, and it effectively condoned rape by removing the need for consent to sex within marriage.

Are we in the 21st century? This is beyond belief.

So what is the point of our troops doing over there fighting the Tele-Ban when the regime that is already in charge is just as sick?

[TheFamousEccles]

No point. No point at all. I support soldiers in general - anyone who voluntarily joins up knowing they could be very much in harms way deserves respect - but I am sure many of them are wandering themselves WTF they are doing there. And laws like this example would seem to exacerbate this. What a world....

[Donney]

It is unbelievable how some people might find that fair or logical.

[Mark]

Surprisingly the right for a man to force his wife to have sex with him was only removed from UK law in the mid-90's.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Surprisingly the right for a man to force his wife to have sex with him was only removed from UK law in the mid-90's.

1890s? :p

[Mark]

1890s? :p

No, I remember John Major bringing it in.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

No, I remember John Major bringing it in.

Well I suppose that makes sense. He had Edwina Currie for his needs :laugh:

[Easy Drifter]

This sort of thinking is showing up in the West with the number of 'Honour' killings with immigrants from the Far East.
We have case now where it is alleged the father, son and mother of 3 Afghan young girls and their 'Aunt' were murdered by driving a car into a canal. The 'aunt' turns out to have been the husband's first and other wife. One of the girls had secretly wed and all 3 plus, I gather the 'Aunt', were adopting western clothes and ways against the father's wishes.
This is not the first case and it is also happening with people from Pakistan, India and other eastern countries.
Certainly conflicts with Western thinking but that is the way they were brought up. The younger people, sometime born in the West or at least having gone to school here are rebelling.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well...Canada is out of there in 2011, and I think we did out best, the Americans are doing their best, the UK and the Netherlands are doing their best, but Afghanistan seems to be constantly trying to find ways to justify their being stuck in the 14th century. What is more, is there people in that part of the world that blame the west for it.

At least as long as we at there, punks like Bin Laden are not out in the open putting together a terrorist army....but bringing Afganistan into a modern world? It doesn't seem possible does it?

[Jag_Warrior]

So what is the point of our troops doing over there fighting the Tele-Ban when the regime that is already in charge is just as sick?

IMO, our mission should be focused on eliminating the Taliban as a military and terrorist threat - that's all. While I don't agree with this law, it's their law... and their business.

Rape laws (and most other laws) here are different from state to state. Where I live, there was no such thing as marital rape until the late 1970's/early 1980's. And even then, I remember there being a big debate about it.

But short of a real and genuine (*cough cough* listen up, Bush/Cheney) threat, I'm all for staying out of how other countries and societies conduct their affairs, unless it turns to genocide or something like that.

[Mark in Oshawa]

But short of a real and genuine (*cough cough* listen up, Bush/Cheney) threat, I'm all for staying out of how other countries and societies conduct their affairs, unless it turns to genocide or something like that.

That's a slippery slope Jag. Afghanistan didn't have genocide going on, but they had severe human rights abuses, much worse than this law. Women being beaten for showing their ankle. People being killed for not being Muslims. We went there for the right reasons, but I think after close to a decade, it is clear Afghanistan isn't going to turn any corner into the civilized world any time soon. It will sort of be better than it was, and that is something.

It is also something that for the most part, other than a few Taliban columns trying to justify their hate, the actual rank and file guy on the ground there doesn't hate the Western troops. There is a respect growing there for the fact our guys are just trying to help.

They didn't have that kind of respect for the Russians did they? THAT is something we should at least put some stock in.

[Drew]

Sweet mother of jesus, that's an actual law?! How on earth do you justify that, is it in the Qoran? :confused:

[Jag_Warrior]

Sorry Mark, but the reason that I support the U.S. being in Afghanistan has nothing to do with human rights abuses or what laws they elect to pass. Had the Taliban not directly supported an attack on the United States, I would not be in favor of U.S. troops being there.

I'm genuinely sorry that there are bad things happening to good people in various countries around the world. But the U.S. is not, and should not be, the policeman of the world.

We put (selected) people to death for certain crimes in the U.S. As it is in some countries, that is seen as a human rights abuse. But no one is going to tell the U.S., China, Russia, or any other nuclear power, that unless we end certain practices, we'll be invaded.

I've read many stories of what the Chinese government does to followers of Falun Gong. For whatever reason, they seem particularly keen to perform sexual torture on female followers of that belief system: boiling oil, weighted clamps, cattle prods, ritual whipping of the genitals, etc. Anything you can find that the Afghans do to women (or others) in Afghanistan, there will be an equal or worse story about what the Chinese do to the Falun Gong followers. IMO, the belief that China is some sort of civilized, capitalist bastion (with just some gentle direction from the Red Commies), is a PR creation and a joke.

Is there a U.N. or U.S. led force headed to China to deal with that? Nope. Do you hear anything about those people in the western media? Nope. Is China worried about someone stopping their abuses? Nope. Should they be? Nope.

I agree: it sucks. But like I said, we're not the cops of the world. Help when we can, but I was taught that charity starts at home.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Sorry Mark, but the reason that I support the U.S. being in Afghanistan has nothing to do with human rights abuses or what laws they elect to pass. Had the Taliban not directly supported an attack on the United States, I would not be in favor of U.S. troops being there.

I'm genuinely sorry that there are bad things happening to good people in various countries around the world. But the U.S. is not, and should not be, the policeman of the world.

We put (selected) people to death for certain crimes in the U.S. As it is in some countries, that is seen as a human rights abuse. But no one is going to tell the U.S., China, Russia, or any other nuclear power, that unless we end certain practices, we'll be invaded.

I've read many stories of what the Chinese government does to followers of Falun Gong. For whatever reason, they seem particularly keen to perform sexual torture on female followers of that belief system: boiling oil, weighted clamps, cattle prods, ritual whipping of the genitals, etc. Anything you can find that the Afghans do to women (or others) in Afghanistan, there will be an equal or worse story about what the Chinese do to the Falun Gong followers. IMO, the belief that China is some sort of civilized, capitalist bastion (with just some gentle direction from the Red Commies), is a PR creation and a joke.

Is there a U.N. or U.S. led force headed to China to deal with that? Nope. Do you hear anything about those people in the western media? Nope. Is China worried about someone stopping their abuses? Nope. Should they be? Nope.

I agree: it sucks. But like I said, we're not the cops of the world. Help when we can, but I was taught that charity starts at home.

I don't disagree, but now that we are there, we should at least try give them some sort of englightment. That said, it is their country....

[ioan]

Certainly conflicts with Western thinking but that is the way they were brought up.

Just because they were brought up with such rules doesn't excuse the fact that they are so stupid as not to understand it's wrong, even when they are living in western countries and can see the difference. Damn idiots they are most of them.

[ioan]

Sweet mother of jesus, that's an actual law?! How on earth do you justify that, is it in the Qoran? :confused:

Apparently everything is in the Quran if you read it the right way! ;)

[ioan]

That said, it is their country....

That I do not agree with so easily.
What do you do when your neighbor is beating his wife or children day after day? Do you let it be or you rather do something to stop that happening?
The situation in Afghanistan and many muslim countries is not that simple a problem that you just ignore and then it's OK!

[BDunnell]

That I do not agree with so easily.
What do you do when your neighbor is beating his wife or children day after day? Do you let it be or you rather do something to stop that happening?
The situation in Afghanistan and many muslim countries is not that simple a problem that you just ignore and then it's OK!

But where would this crusade stop? It is simply not possible to make every nation in the world a nice Western-style democracy, as much as this would be desirable for so many reasons. Trying, at the cost of many lives on all sides and at the severe risk of creating great resentment amongst those on the receiving end of the imposition of democracy, is fraught with serious risks, and has rarely been seen to work. The human rights records of many Middle Eastern regimes with whom we have overly-friendly relations are absolutely disgusting, and I feel this makes countries like the UK look extremely hypocritical, but I don't consider it desirable to impose ourselves upon them with armed conflict.

[Hazell B]

1890s? :p

I'm glad you found it funny. Imagine having a law like that involving men ... oh, you can't :mark:
Anyway, some of us women fought like hell for YEARS to get the lawful rape laws altered in the UK. The media didn't want to know, either.

Which leads me to the point of this story being suddenly made available here and in the US. It's always been seen as okay in some areas to beat/starve/murder a wife who isn't exactly what her husband wants her to be, yet only now (when much of the UK and US are signing anti-war letters and chanting "get out!" slogans) is it reported.
Whilst it's a good media and government propaganda move, it's still propaganda. It does not justify war, nor hatered of the people who enforce such laws.

[christophulus]

I'm glad you found it funny. Imagine having a law like that involving men ... oh, you can't :mark:
Anyway, some of us women fought like hell for YEARS to get the lawful rape laws altered in the UK. The media didn't want to know, either.

Which leads me to the point of this story being suddenly made available here and in the US. It's always been seen as okay in some areas to beat/starve/murder a wife who isn't exactly what her husband wants her to be, yet only now (when much of the UK and US are signing anti-war letters and chanting "get out!" slogans) is it reported.
Whilst it's a good media and government propaganda move, it's still propaganda. It does not justify war, nor hatered of the people who enforce such laws.

Wow. I'm 21 and I never knew we had a "lawful rape" law :s .

Disgusting as though it is, you're absolutely right. It's all propaganda designed to placate the public that we're "doing the right thing" in Afghanistan.

[BDunnell]

I'm glad you found it funny. Imagine having a law like that involving men ... oh, you can't :mark:
Anyway, some of us women fought like hell for YEARS to get the lawful rape laws altered in the UK. The media didn't want to know, either.

Which leads me to the point of this story being suddenly made available here and in the US. It's always been seen as okay in some areas to beat/starve/murder a wife who isn't exactly what her husband wants her to be, yet only now (when much of the UK and US are signing anti-war letters and chanting "get out!" slogans) is it reported.
Whilst it's a good media and government propaganda move, it's still propaganda. It does not justify war, nor hatered of the people who enforce such laws.

This sort of thing is one of the elements for the justifications of war in Afghanistan and especially Iraq that made, and makes, me most angry. Those who sought to justify military action on the basis of upholding human rights were mostly not the sort who gave two hoots for human rights on a regular basis. I doubt George W. Bush was a regular donor to Amnesty International, for example. He, his ilk and his supporters suddenly discovered it when it suited their desires to use it as an argument, and nothing more.

[Hazell B]

On saturday I was in York city centre, signing an anti war letter, with a row of other similar things to sign on assorted topics beside it, displayed by a peace charity.

They'd booked (and paid) for a space to ask for signatures.
The authorities thought it was a great idea to allow an army band to stand right next to them, drowning out all conversation from exactly the charity's start time to their close.

Plenty of room for them to be sited away from each other .... York's massive :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

On saturday I was in York city centre, signing an anti war letter, with a row of other similar things to sign on assorted topics beside it, displayed by a peace charity.

They'd booked (and paid) for a space to ask for signatures.
The authorities thought it was a great idea to allow an army band to stand right next to them, drowning out all conversation from exactly the charity's start time to their close.

Plenty of room for them to be sited away from each other .... York's massive :rolleyes:

More proof, as if it were ever needed, that large sections of 'the authorities' are — probably — inherently right-wing in nature.

[ioan]

But where would this crusade stop? It is simply not possible to make every nation in the world a nice Western-style democracy, as much as this would be desirable for so many reasons. Trying, at the cost of many lives on all sides and at the severe risk of creating great resentment amongst those on the receiving end of the imposition of democracy, is fraught with serious risks, and has rarely been seen to work. The human rights records of many Middle Eastern regimes with whom we have overly-friendly relations are absolutely disgusting, and I feel this makes countries like the UK look extremely hypocritical, but I don't consider it desirable to impose ourselves upon them with armed conflict.

Who is imposing himself over someone with armed conflict?
The NATO member's troops aren't battling the Afghan military.

What do you think, are Afghan women happier than 10 years ago? Would they be happier if the stupid islamist rules were changed once and for all?

I do not think that changing something that is wrong for at least 50% of the population of a country = imposing your values.

[ioan]

I doubt George W. Bush was a regular donor to Amnesty International, for example.

Any proof for this?

[BDunnell]

Any proof for this?

All I said was 'I doubt'. Surely you can't think he was? Not exactly the caring type.

[BDunnell]

I do not think that changing something that is wrong for at least 50% of the population of a country = imposing your values.

And how would you ever measure that before starting a war? What are you suggesting — that the US or whoever hold a referendum before beginning the invasion?

Things are rarely clear-cut. Take Serbia and the conflict in 1999, for instance. A lot of Serbs hated Milosevic, but they weren't exactly supportive of having NATO bombing them every night.

[Easy Drifter]

And Iraq is executing gay men!

[Jag_Warrior]

That I do not agree with so easily.
What do you do when your neighbor is beating his wife or children day after day? Do you let it be or you rather do something to stop that happening?
The situation in Afghanistan and many muslim countries is not that simple a problem that you just ignore and then it's OK!

I'd call the police. That's what they're there for - especially if it's taking place day after day.

I'm not heartless. Like I said, I feel for people in bad circumstances too. But I'm not a cop and neither is the U.S. One of the key reasons that I voted for George W. Bush in 2000 is because he said he was against "nation building." He was a liar... quite obviously. But we have more than enough bullsh## going on here that we can't/won't deal with. Adding on the problems that everybody else has (that they can't/won't deal with) is not our mission.

[Jag_Warrior]

I don't disagree, but now that we are there, we should at least try give them some sort of englightment. That said, it is their country....

We can advise. We can complain. We can recall ambassadors. We can withhold aid. Past that, I'm not sure how we would enlighten them... short of military action and pouring in billions that we obviously don't have.

Let the Japanese send some (make believe) troops in. Why don't they lift a finger every now & again? Why is it always our money and our kids that are called upon to be wasted? IMO, we need to elect politicians who'll stop offering, and then maybe people will stop asking.

But I don't think most of those people have any use for us or our views on the world at large. I think they'll do just what the Mujahideen did: take the help from whoever offers it, and then do what they feel like doing after the deed is done and today's "good guy" warlord is back in power.

Hey, as I mentioned the Fulan Gong, no one wonders why the U.S., Canada and Europe are going to remain silent about that? We all know why.

I hate it for those people in China, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Colombia, Darfur and every other hell hole in the world. I really do. But like the song says, "I'd love to save the world. But I don't know what to do. So I leave it up to you."

[Drew]

Let the Japanese send some (make believe) troops in. Why don't they lift a finger every now & again? Why is it always our money and our kids that are called upon to be wasted? IMO, we need to elect politicians who'll stop offering, and then maybe people will stop asking.
[/I]

Well let's see it from another point of view. Why do we feel the need to poke our noses in?

It seems to work for the Japanese, when was the last time there was an islamic terrorist attack in Japan? Have they gone out ( in recent times of course ) and invaded anywhere in the name of national security? No, and they don't suffer any terrorist attacks because of it. If only our governments (or at least the British government) would stop poking it's nose in where it's really not needed, maybe we'd just be that little bit "safer"

[steve_spackman]

We can advise. We can complain. We can recall ambassadors. We can withhold aid. Past that, I'm not sure how we would enlighten them... short of military action and pouring in billions that we obviously don't have.

Let the Japanese send some (make believe) troops in. Why don't they lift a finger every now & again? Why is it always our money and our kids that are called upon to be wasted? IMO, we need to elect politicians who'll stop offering, and then maybe people will stop asking.

But I don't think most of those people have any use for us or our views on the world at large. I think they'll do just what the Mujahideen did: take the help from whoever offers it, and then do what they feel like doing after the deed is done and today's "good guy" warlord is back in power.

Hey, as I mentioned the Fulan Gong, no one wonders why the U.S., Canada and Europe are going to remain silent about that? We all know why.

I hate it for those people in China, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Colombia, Darfur and every other hell hole in the world. I really do. But like the song says, "I'd love to save the world. But I don't know what to do. So I leave it up to you."


I agree with everything you said.

[steve_spackman]

Well let's see it from another point of view. Why do we feel the need to poke our noses in?

It seems to work for the Japanese, when was the last time there was an islamic terrorist attack in Japan? Have they gone out ( in recent times of course ) and invaded anywhere in the name of national security? No, and they don't suffer any terrorist attacks because of it. If only our governments (or at least the British government) would stop poking it's nose in where it's really not needed, maybe we'd just be that little bit "safer"

spot on..This war is nothing short of a farce.

Afghanistan is one country where invasions have a habit of going wrong. The British have tried, so have the Russians and even the Americans have tried. Its one part of the world where knowing your history is well worth the effort.

The Brits invaded the country in 1839 and 1878 (and even had to launch a second invasion after that), the Russians in the 80s and the Americans in 2002 and with little success apart from imposing 'puppet regimes' they have failed.

So why we are there, i have no clue...

[Camelopard]

Oh dear, where do we start?

India? burning the wife because she didn't bring a big enough dowry into the marriage! Oh wait it's only the muslims that do that, oh no it isn't it is the Hindus. Do a search on 'Dowry Murder' in boogle.


Sex trafficing? Women sold into virtual slavery to 'work' as prostitutes in Western Europe, mostly from Eastern Europe but also from Asia.

Chechnya? not many human rights abuses there.

Africa? Where do you start, murder for suporting the wrong political party. Ever heard of the LRA in Uganda and what they have done? Burundi, Rwanda and the Congo? Tribal conflict in Kenya? Ethnic cleasing in Sudan? Liberia? Child soldiers?


Indonesia? People tortured and killed for being Muslim and also for being Christian not even mentioning what is going on in West Papua and what happened in East Timor.


Northern Ireland? crimes still being commited there in the name of religion.

Turkey? Previously Ethnic cleansing against Armenians and now executing people for being Kurds. Why don't the Kurds have their own homeland?

Infantcide because no-one wants girls, happens a lot more than you think.

[Camelopard]

And Iraq is executing gay men!

And is also giving transsexuals free gender reassignment surgery and facial feminisation surgery.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7259057.stm

[Camelopard]

Just went down to the tea room and on Lateline was a feature on the Exclusive Brethren. I'll post a link when it appears on the ABC website.

Did you know that if you leave the 'sect' you are ostracised, banned from meeting, speaking with or communicating in any way with members of your family? So if a parent leaves the sect they are unable to see their children. Sound fair and reasonable? These people call themselves Christians!

Taken from:

http://exclusivebrethrensite.com/exclusive-brethren-schools.php


Higher education is generally frowned upon by the Exclusive Brethren possibly because of the notorious behavior of college students. The higher education school and their students are viewed as sinful to the Exclusive Brethren leaders and while they are not forbidden they are discouraged.
Once children have completed their education they may become employees for an Exclusive Brethren company. In some ways this eliminates the need for higher education unless the person later decides to leave the Exclusive Brethren.
If a person does decide to leave the Exclusive Brethren they will often lose not only their job but their friends and families as well. Most Exclusive Brethren sects disapprove of non-members associating with member of the Exclusive Brethren even family members.

[Mark in Oshawa]

All I said was 'I doubt'. Surely you can't think he was? Not exactly the caring type.

Which American President spent more money in Africa in his 8 years of office on humanitarian issues such as AIDS treatment and prevention? Bono will tell you it is George W Bush. He came out and has said that on a few occasions and the US Got NOTHING in PR for it, didn't ask for any stratgic favors, NOTHING. Just they did it because Bush's value system felt something had to be done.

Not the caring type Ben? You have to take off the red tinged glasses you wear sometimes and look at the HARD reality that no one is as bad as they seem, and if you get upset when someone labels you as something, don't expect people on the right to take being stereotyped lying down. Lots of shades of gray in in this world....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well let's see it from another point of view. Why do we feel the need to poke our noses in?

It seems to work for the Japanese, when was the last time there was an islamic terrorist attack in Japan? Have they gone out ( in recent times of course ) and invaded anywhere in the name of national security? No, and they don't suffer any terrorist attacks because of it. If only our governments (or at least the British government) would stop poking it's nose in where it's really not needed, maybe we'd just be that little bit "safer"

You ever try to go to Japan as a Caucasian or say as an Arab? You are watched because you DIFFERENT. That and the horrid price of getting there and the strict customs. Japan is a tough target as a terrorist to hit becuase unless you are Japanese, you are noticed immediately. An open society where you have lots of countrymen living already is an easy target.

IF the UK and US didn't poke their noses in ANY other nation EVER, you think that would stop Russia, India, China or any other non-aligned state? Did it stop Saddamn Hussein from invading Kuwait? AT least the US and UK have some sort of pretention of doing the right thing.

Afghanistan was invaded because the same lunatics who think killing a woman for showing her ankle is ok also allowed a Muslim fundamentalist nut job to plan and operate a terrorist organization from their sovreign soil. When this organization killed 3000 people in less than an hour in Downtown NYC and Washington, The Americans all the sudden figured out where Afghanistan was. If the Taliban had some sort of sense, they would have coughed up Bin Laden and they still would have their country now wouldn't they?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Just went down to the tea room and on Lateline was a feature on the Exclusive Brethren. I'll post a link when it appears on the ABC website.

Did you know that if you leave the 'sect' you are ostracised, banned from meeting, speaking with or communicating in any way with members of your family? So if a parent leaves the sect they are unable to see their children. Sound fair and reasonable? These people call themselves Christians!

Taken from:

http://exclusivebrethrensite.com/exclusive-brethren-schools.php


Higher education is generally frowned upon by the Exclusive Brethren possibly because of the notorious behavior of college students. The higher education school and their students are viewed as sinful to the Exclusive Brethren leaders and while they are not forbidden they are discouraged.
Once children have completed their education they may become employees for an Exclusive Brethren company. In some ways this eliminates the need for higher education unless the person later decides to leave the Exclusive Brethren.
If a person does decide to leave the Exclusive Brethren they will often lose not only their job but their friends and families as well. Most Exclusive Brethren sects disapprove of non-members associating with member of the Exclusive Brethren even family members.

Just more proof that exterme religion in any form is bad, just like an extreme desire to eliminate religion is bad. If you don't believe that, just need to point out how Stalin felt about churches....

[Malbec]

We can advise. We can complain. We can recall ambassadors. We can withhold aid. Past that, I'm not sure how we would enlighten them... short of military action and pouring in billions that we obviously don't have.

Let the Japanese send some (make believe) troops in. Why don't they lift a finger every now & again? Why is it always our money and our kids that are called upon to be wasted? IMO, we need to elect politicians who'll stop offering, and then maybe people will stop asking.

But I don't think most of those people have any use for us or our views on the world at large. I think they'll do just what the Mujahideen did: take the help from whoever offers it, and then do what they feel like doing after the deed is done and today's "good guy" warlord is back in power.


Regarding Japan I guess you'll have to blame the guys who wrote their constitution forbidding them to use their military. Can't remember who that was though, Emperor McArthur wasn't it?

Otherwise though I agree. We (the collective we that is) are paying in blood and money to protect the Afghan government, I see nothing wrong in yanking the chain back hard if they do things that we find abhorrent, even simply non-productive. Whether its introducing laws like this or allowing unabated corruption which leads to Western troops being blamed for keeping him in power whilst causing endless misery to all Afghans doesn't really matter.

Ultimately though we won't change their society overnight. As others have already posted Western culture allowed women to be beaten and raped within marriage until quite recently, that was enshrined in law too. It took over a century for that to change in the West, we can't expect the Afghans to change overnight either. Also the harder we push for it, the more the Afghans will resent a change pushed on them from outside and it might result in an even bigger backlash against women, something we don't want.

Afghanistan does have a thriving liberal middle class that has very similar values to us and doesn't tolerate laws like this. The problem is that they don't live in Kabul, they live in places like Moscow, Paris, London and New York and haven't moved back. It would be as if the US east and west coast populations all emigrated leaving 'deliverance' types behind. Coaxing them home from usually very comfortable lifestyles is another key to improving things there.

[Malbec]

More proof, as if it were ever needed, that large sections of 'the authorities' are — probably — inherently right-wing in nature.

Or hopelessly disorganised...

[Easy Drifter]

There have been moves by some, note some, for Sharia law to be applied in whatever country they have emmigrated to. Some of the women support this.
Our Premier was thinking of allowing it to a limited extent until the backlash started. Not just from 'western' Cdns. but from most muslims.
What a mess that would be!!!!

[ioan]

There have been moves by some, note some, for Sharia law to be applied in whatever country they have emmigrated to. Some of the women support this.
Our Premier was thinking of allowing it to a limited extent until the backlash started. Not just from 'western' Cdns. but from most muslims.
What a mess that would be!!!!

Your government should learn from the French, nothing is tolerated. They don't like it? Back to Africa. The equation is simple.

[BDunnell]

Your government should learn from the French, nothing is tolerated. They don't like it? Back to Africa. The equation is simple.

The notion that France, as much as I love the country, should be viewed as a model of racial harmony and how to deal with racial tensions is simply laughable, I'm afraid.

[Mark in Oshawa]

More proof, as if it were ever needed, that large sections of 'the authorities' are — probably — inherently right-wing in nature.

No Ben, Dylan had it right: Disorganized. Clueless. What is more, from what I have seen, most big cities go more libreal. Show me a large city anywhere with a right wing mayor in the free world.......San Diego maybe?

[BDunnell]

No Ben, Dylan had it right: Disorganized. Clueless. What is more, from what I have seen, most big cities go more libreal. Show me a large city anywhere with a right wing mayor in the free world.......San Diego maybe?

London.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

No Ben, Dylan had it right: Disorganized. Clueless. What is more, from what I have seen, most big cities go more libreal. Show me a large city anywhere with a right wing mayor in the free world.......San Diego maybe?

Borris :p

[Roamy]

Well what good is she if she won't suck you dick. Bury her up to her head and then stone her.

Oh you wonder why I don't like these people and we let them infiltrate our counties. Get a clue TIREs

[Malbec]

No Ben, Dylan had it right: Disorganized. Clueless. What is more, from what I have seen, most big cities go more libreal. Show me a large city anywhere with a right wing mayor in the free world.......San Diego maybe?

London, Milan and Rome for a start. The Milanese mayor has banned any new restaurants opening up that are said to be foreign, including Sicilian because it has 'arab' influences, and is quite keen on vigilante groups too.