Luca Badoer Finally Gets Ferrari Drive

[philipbain]

I know all the Schumi fans will have been crying into their cereal this morning at the news that Schumi won't be coming back after all (though at least it was a perfectly legitimate reason - remember kids, motor bikes are ludicrously dangerous!) but there is a bright side to this, Luca Badoer finally gets the Ferrari ride that be should have had 10 years ago in the aftermath of Schumi breaking his leg at Silverstone. At that time for a reason that I still find puzzling they went with Mika Salo, never a top draw driver in F1, more a journeyman driver, rather than a test driver who was race fresh (Luca was competing with Minardi in '99) and knew the car inside out. I thought at the time it made little sense and whilst Salo did a reasonable job of supporting Eddie Irvine's championship bid, I felt that Badoer was cheated out of a Ferrari drive that was rightly his.

Also it will be a novelty, an Italian driving a Ferrari, the last time that happened was 1992 when Ivan Capelli drove for the team (though it can be argued that Jean Alesi could claim Italian heritage but alas he was French).

[ioan]

Another one who wakes up and posts without checking or seeing there is already a thread about this topic! :laugh:

[pino]

I am very glad for Luca, and wish him all the best for the race and the rest of the season :up:

[Sonic]

Also it will be a novelty, an Italian driving a Ferrari, the last time that happened was 1992 when Ivan Capelli drove for the team (though it can be argued that Jean Alesi could claim Italian heritage but alas he was French).

And we all know how well that went! :rolleyes:

Seriously though - Its a feel good story for F1. A 38 year old making his Ferrari debut. I hope he can assist Ferrari in whatever way he can; who knows, as a proper test and development driver perhaps he'll be able to have some positive input the team has missed this season. (not suggesting Kimi and FM can't do that themselves but another pair of eyes never hurt)

[Knock-on]

I am very glad for Luca, and wish him all the best for the race and the rest of the season :up:

+1

[Knock-on]

And we all know how well that went! :rolleyes:

Seriously though - Its a feel good story for F1. A 38 year old making his Ferrari debut. I hope he can assist Ferrari in whatever way he can; who knows, as a proper test and development driver perhaps he'll be able to have some positive input the team has missed this season. (not suggesting Kimi and FM can't do that themselves but another pair of eyes never hurt)

Ferrari have pulled a bit of a blinder here if you ask me.

They have given up development on this years car and have their test pilot out there doing 1000's of laps.

This should stand them in VERY good stead for next year!

[ratonmacias]

will ferrari be able to keep their standing in the wcc or will badoer score enough points?

[Sonic]

I may be talking out of my.....well you get the idea, but haven't the last two Ferrari stand-ins scored podiums? Salo, 2nd - Germany '99. Larini, 2nd - Imola '94.

History bodes well for Luca. :)

[VkmSpouge]

I am really pleased for Luca Badoer who has finally been given a real shot in F1, ten years after his last race with Minardi. Come on, Luca! :D

[ioan]

will ferrari be able to keep their standing in the wcc or will badoer score enough points?

I highly doubt it that he will manage to score many points if any.

[inimitablestoo]

Has he actually done any racing since he last appeared for Minardi? I wish Luca all the best but get the feeling Ferrari may make another change before season's end if he proves not to be on the pace.

[pitscar]

Not sure why Luca over Gene, given Gene's LeMans seat time and performance.

Plus the facts that:
-he is now the oldest driver in the current WDC (38)
-he holds the record for most starts with no points (48/0)

Oh well. Like said above, they're basically getting a few thousand kms of free testing. I'm sure his feedback skills far outweigh Massa's.

[pino]

I highly doubt it that he will manage to score many points if any.

Why is that ? He knows that car more than anybody else, and if he will survive the first 3/4 laps he can finish on points. OK maybe not in Valencia but he can do that in the next race again. Go Luca :up:

[driveace]

Best of luck to the guy,and lets judge him when he has finished the race .

[race_director]

I know all the Schumi fans will have been crying into their cereal this morning at the news that Schumi won't be coming back after all (though at least it was a perfectly legitimate reason - remember kids, motor bikes are ludicrously dangerous!) but there is a bright side to this, Luca Badoer finally gets the Ferrari ride that be should have had 10 years ago in the aftermath of Schumi breaking his leg at Silverstone. At that time for a reason that I still find puzzling they went with Mika Salo, never a top draw driver in F1, more a journeyman driver, rather than a test driver who was race fresh (Luca was competing with Minardi in '99) and knew the car inside out. I thought at the time it made little sense and whilst Salo did a reasonable job of supporting Eddie Irvine's championship bid, I felt that Badoer was cheated out of a Ferrari drive that was rightly his.

Also it will be a novelty, an Italian driving a Ferrari, the last time that happened was 1992 when Ivan Capelli drove for the team (though it can be argued that Jean Alesi could claim Italian heritage but alas he was French).


well LUCA is part of ferrari family for a long time . we accept with open arms and pray for his sucess with same dedication we do for MS/Massa/KIMI

At end of the day its not a normal racing teams. TS FERRARI

:)

[ioan]

Why is that ? He knows that car more than anybody else...

Really? He never drove the F60! Luca's last test of a F1 car dates back to last year.

Making statements is a great thing, pino, but just for the sake of writing something? :rolleyes:

[CNR]

Q: how far along is the 2010 cars would they be at a testing stage and could the official test driver done a few miles in it

http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/profile-luca-badoer/


The Italian has a strong track record against the clock at Mugello and Fiorano and his ability to develop a car is second to none; he was instrumental to Ferrari’s revival in the early millennium and he was a key player in the team that Jean Todt assembled to bring about this turnaround.

[race_director]

Q: how far along is the 2010 cars would they be at a testing stage and could the official test driver done a few miles in it

http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/profile-luca-badoer/

we still are in 2009 and the 2010 car IMO will be ready at end NOV . and i thing that the new rules says that the car can be tested after the end of this year.

There is also some 1 month cmpulsory shut down for all teams.

most likely all teams will test the new can in JAN 2010

[Rollo]

I highly doubt it that he will manage to score many points if any.

So you really don't think that a car which has finished 14 from 19 starts, driven by the driver who's put more miles on it than anyone else, and has probably driven more miles in an F1 car than anyone else in history is up to the task, despite saying this:

it's at least as good as the 2005 Ferrari.

So are you saying that it's the car or the driver who's rubbish?

I'm willing to bet that Luca in the first decent drive in his career is likely to outscore Kimi for the remainder of the season. Dare I suggest he might even take a win... that'd be a turn up for the books.

[VkmSpouge]

Not sure why Luca over Gene, given Gene's LeMans seat time and performance.

Plus the facts that:
-he is now the oldest driver in the current WDC (38)
-he holds the record for most starts with no points (48/0)

Though I don't think he can be blamed for scoring 0 points in his F1 career having driven for Scuderia Italia when they used that awful Lola, Forti and Minardi. The closest he came was at Nurburgring in 1999 where he would have been rewarded with a handsome 4th place if his car had not broken down. He was also close in San Marino 1993 where he finished 7th.

[ShiftingGears]

So you really don't think that a car which has finished 14 from 19 starts, driven by the driver who's put more miles on it than anyone else, and has probably driven more miles in an F1 car than anyone else in history is up to the task, despite saying this:

Haha. I've driven as many miles in the F60 as Badoer has.


I'm willing to bet that Luca in the first decent drive in his career is likely to outscore Kimi for the remainder of the season. Dare I suggest he might even take a win... that'd be a turn up for the books.

:laugh:

There's a good reason why he hasn't had a race seat since 1999. He's not quick enough.

He won't be near Kimi.

[Mekola]

Seems to be as a consolation prize to Luca, after all those years...

[pino]

Really? He never drove the F60! Luca's last test of a F1 car dates back to last year.

Making statements is a great thing, pino, but just for the sake of writing something? :rolleyes:

Then you know a very little about how Ferrari Team works, anyway this article says Luca's been on F60 severall times.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Motori/Formula1/11-08-2009/badoer-torna-bambino-501011752076.shtml

and btw once again, why you always need to be so aggressive/rude/arrogant ? :crazy:

[ioan]

So you really don't think that a car which has finished 14 from 19 starts, driven by the driver who's put more miles on it than anyone else

FGS, Badoer never ever drove the F60!
Running your mouth without knowing the basic facts?! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Haha. I've driven as many miles in the F60 as Badoer has.



:laugh:

There's a good reason why he hasn't had a race seat since 1999. He's not quick enough.

He won't be near Kimi.

Exactly! :)

[ioan]

Then you know a very little about how Ferrari Team works, anyway this article says Luca's been on F60 severall times.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Motori/Formula1/11-08-2009/badoer-torna-bambino-501011752076.shtml

and btw once again, why you always need to be so aggressive/rude/arrogant ? :crazy:

Arrogant?!
What about you posting untrue info again and again?

The article in your link states:

Per Badoer, la F60 non sarà una novità. Il collaudatore di Maranello si è giá seduto diverse volte nell'abitacolo della Rossa.

that Badoer did sit several times in the F60. Nowhere it says that he ever drove it!
Is it a lack of Italian knowledge from your part? I highly doubt it.
Is it you trolling? I suppose so, and it's bad form from a moderator to be doing such.

BTW, here:

Badoer has not had the opportunity to drive the F60, having last tested in December last year at Portimao, but he is familiar with the cockpit and thinks it will not take him long to get used to the machine.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77625

:crazy:

[pino]

Arrogant?!
What about you posting untrue info again and again?

The article in your link states:


that Badoer did sit several times in the F60. Nowhere it says that he ever drove it!
Is it a lack of Italian knowledge from your part? I highly doubt it.
Is it you trolling? I suppose so, and it's bad form from a moderator to be doing such.

BTW, here:


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77625

:crazy:

ioan, I don't know about you, but I trust more La Gazzetta dello Sport than Autosport ( which most of times translates articles from gazzetta.it ), plus in italian "sedersi su una macchina" means to drive it. Anyway both could be wrong and we could've discussed this in a nicer way but no, that's almost impossible for you to do that.

So I am asking you once again, lose your arrogant attitude because I am very very tired of it !

[ArrowsFA1]

My first thought when I heard Luca had got the drive was what happens if he out-performs Kimi? Where would that leave the Finn then?

[Shalafi]

My first thought when I heard Luca had got the drive was what happens if he out-performs Kimi? Where would that leave the Finn then?

You have some wild thoughts, old fella...

[ioan]

ioan, I don't know about you, but I trust more La Gazzetta dello Sport than Autosport ( which most of times translates articles from gazzetta.it ), plus in italian "sedersi su una macchina" means to drive it. Anyway both could be wrong and we could've discussed this in a nicer way but no, that's almost impossible for you to do that.

So I am asking you once again, lose your arrogant attitude because I am very very tired of it !

Please do tell us when and where did Badoer drive the F60.
AFAIK he didn't drive the F60.

When you show proof of what you claim it's true I'll accept it.

And BTW just because you're a moderator I don't take your word for granted, so facts please.

And to be honest I'm tired of you attacking me and calling me arrogant just because I dare to ask you to show proof for what you say it's a fact.

Do you think it's right for a moderator to publicly menace forum members because of his personal views? You believe that such an attitude helps the forum in any way? I highly doubt it.

[DexDexter]

So I am asking you once again, lose your arrogant attitude because I am very very tired of it !

I have a feeling that you're not alone.

[Dzeidzei]

I have a feeling that you're not alone.

The problem of ioan is that he demands some sort of factual proof of everyone else, but considers his own opinion to equal facts. That is very close to discussing with a deeply religious person whether god exists or not.

So we end up like this:

member X: MS is only human, he eats, drinks and sihts like the rest of us.

ioan: You have to proove that. Show me unedited footage of him eating. otherwise stop your ignorant bs and leave this forum.

member X: MS did intentionally stop in Monaco during qualifing.

ioan: How can you proove that? IMO he made a mistake.

member X: so he makes mistakes?

ioan: Can you proove that? He doesnt make mistakes.


All in all its frustrating, annoying, stupid and futile. And anyone talking to him -including myself- should only blame themselves. Whats really fukcing annoying is that he makes this forum more and more like a Motorsport Ioan discussion forum.

Why not just ban the guy, is beyond me.

[leopard]

Please do tell us when and where did Badoer drive the F60.
AFAIK he didn't drive the F60.

...

Except he spends his times mainly in the test driver seat, I didn't recall when was Badoer racing F1.

I have the same worries,

[Garry Walker]

Ferrari have pulled a bit of a blinder here if you ask me.

They have given up development on this years car and have their test pilot out there doing 1000's of laps.

This should stand them in VERY good stead for next year!
Whether Badoer or whoever tests, is irrelevant. The benefit for next year is non-existant. Lets try to understand this again. Drivers have very little to do with how fast the car is, except for driving it. No matter what they say, if the engineers and aero guys are not up to the task, the car will not be good enough.


So you really don't think that a car which has finished 14 from 19 starts, driven by the driver who's put more miles on it than anyone else, and has probably driven more miles in an F1 car than anyone else in history is up to the task, despite saying this:
So much BS.
Badoer has never driven this car. NEVER.
Comprehende?



So are you saying that it's the car or the driver who's rubbish?

I'm willing to bet that Luca in the first decent drive in his career is likely to outscore Kimi for the remainder of the season. Dare I suggest he might even take a win... that'd be a turn up for the books.Dare I suggest you need less booze in your daily intake of "vitamins"

[Knock-on]

Do you think it's right for a moderator to publicly menace forum members because of his personal views? You believe that such an attitude helps the forum in any way? I highly doubt it.

Give it a rest.

Pino posted a link which suggests that Luca has driven the car and you were rude and arrogant when you responded to the point where you questioned his knowledge of Itallian :laugh:

Perhaps you might consider showing some respect for others before moaning that people find you rude ;)

Anyway, back to topic. Lets hope that Luca performs better than you expect :)

[leopard]

In regard to a non English source I doubt that any of us is doubtful on someone knowledge on Italian. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I am very glad for Luca, and wish him all the best for the race and the rest of the season :up:

Me too! :up:

[Knock-on]

Whether Badoer or whoever tests, is irrelevant. The benefit for next year is non-existant. Lets try to understand this again. Drivers have very little to do with how fast the car is, except for driving it. No matter what they say, if the engineers and aero guys are not up to the task, the car will not be good enough.


I appreciate what you are saying Garry but the feedback from a driver is still important.

Cars designed purely in a test environment tend to be blindingly fast right up until the point where they have to turn a wheel on a track.

[ioan]

Give it a rest.

Pino posted a link which suggests that Luca has driven the car and you were rude and arrogant when you responded to the point where you questioned his knowledge of Itallian :laugh:

Perhaps you might consider showing some respect for others before moaning that people find you rude ;)

Anyway, back to topic. Lets hope that Luca performs better than you expect :)

Respect is earned not gifted in my world.

I also posted a link to a source that says he didn't and having closely followed the F60 tests since teh first day the car hit the track I'm sure the only drivers who drove it around a circuit are Felipe and Kimi, and the only other driver who drove it was Gene in a straight line test.

PS: Believe it or not I have good knowledge of Italian, beside other 5 languages that I speak fluently.

[Knock-on]

In regard to a non English source I doubt that any of us is doubtful on someone knowledge on Italian. ;)

But I tend to trust a Pizza spinning Itallian that I know personally to interperet it correctly.

Doesn't mean the article is correct but that it says what it says ;)

[ioan]

I appreciate what you are saying Garry but the feedback from a driver is still important.

Sure it is, and I suppose that Ferrari chose Badoer because they want him to develop the car not to race it, any point that he might land by chance will be a bonus.

The next year F1 Ferrari model has been tested in the wind tunnel for some time already and I think that Ferrari will start implementing ideas that others can't spot by just seeing the car (like weight distribution, which will be very important next season given that they will have to use fuel tanks twice as big as this season) and have Badoer test them.

[Garry Walker]

I appreciate what you are saying Garry but the feedback from a driver is still important.

Cars designed purely in a test environment tend to be blindingly fast right up until the point where they have to turn a wheel on a track.

This years Brawn car says differently. Drivers had done no testing with it, it was super fast from day one.
No matter how good a feedback the driver gives, if the engineers arent clever enough, nothing will happen.

[Knock-on]

Respect is earned not gifted in my world.

I also posted a link to a source that says he didn't and having closely followed the F60 tests since teh first day the car hit the track I'm sure the only drivers who drove it around a circuit are Felipe and Kimi, and the only other driver who drove it was Gene in a straight line test.

PS: Believe it or not I have good knowledge of Italian, beside other 5 languages that I speak fluently.

I don't know which is correct but there does seem to be conflicting stories. Pino posted a normally reliable source and it was up for discussion, not as a weapon for attack ;)

If you wrote all responses in the same manner as this one, I don't think you would ever have a problem with anyone on this forum :up:

[ioan]

This years Brawn car says differently. Drivers had done no testing with it, it was super fast from day one.
No matter how good a feedback the driver gives, if the engineers arent clever enough, nothing will happen.

Rightly so, in the end it all boils down to the engineers.
One of the reasons that race drivers are used more to test is that nowadays the engineers have all the technology they need to know if a car is performing as planned or not, and the driver is needed in order to dial in the car to his personal liking not to make it faster than what the engineers predicted.

[Knock-on]

This years Brawn car says differently. Drivers had done no testing with it, it was super fast from day one.
No matter how good a feedback the driver gives, if the engineers arent clever enough, nothing will happen.

I agree 100%. If you don't have a good design team, you are just trying to polish a turd.

However, Brawn GP may be a new team in name but is a very established team going back a long way. They are hardly new kids on the block.

All I'm saying is that driver feedback is still important although as a componant of the whole package. One of the things about Schumacher was the way he could feedback exactly what he wanted to happen and mould a car around him.

[Knock-on]

Sure it is, and I suppose that Ferrari chose Badoer because they want him to develop the car not to race it, any point that he might land by chance will be a bonus.

The next year F1 Ferrari model has been tested in the wind tunnel for some time already and I think that Ferrari will start implementing ideas that others can't spot by just seeing the car (like weight distribution, which will be very important next season given that they will have to use fuel tanks twice as big as this season) and have Badoer test them.

I agree that there must be an element of this IMHO. Luca is a very experienced test driver and hitting the 2010 season from the first race should be Ferrari's aim now.

[AndyL]

All in all its frustrating, annoying, stupid and futile. And anyone talking to him -including myself- should only blame themselves. Whats really fukcing annoying is that he makes this forum more and more like a Motorsport Ioan discussion forum.

Why not just ban the guy, is beyond me.

The ignore function is a wonderful thing. (It would be even more wonderful if it worked on quoted text.)

For the benefit of anyone not aware of this feature: click User CP at the top left, then select buddy/ignore lists near the bottom of the left-hand menu.

[Dzeidzei]

The ignore function is a wonderful thing. (It would be even more wonderful if it worked on quoted text.)

For the benefit of anyone not aware of this feature: click User CP at the top left, then select buddy/ignore lists near the bottom of the left-hand menu.

To my experience this works on every day except those ending with an Y.

[Jon 'Massa' Beagles]

I think the bigger question is not if Badoer's driven the car or not, any driver worth his salt (which Luca definitely used to be...he didn't end up in F1 or at Ferrari by accident!) can adapt to a new car, especially a new version of a car he has already driven. I know there are significant differences in the rules from last year to this, but he can (as Schumacher did) bung slicks on the old model to make it a little closer than it used to be at least.

Rather the big question is whether he will be physically and mentally fit enough to cope with the demands of a GP weekend, where he will be compared against Kimi Räikönnen and be filling the shoes of messieurs Massa and Schumacher effectively! Could there be a more pressured seat to sit in than that!!!

I'm expecting him to push too hard in Qually, have an off and compromise his weekend...but if he can get some good laps in on Friday and adjust well (as I expect he will) then it's just a matter of keeping his cool. That Ferrari is now good enough to score points, and I think Luca may just do that at some point this season, but not at Valencia where I don't think he's ever driven at...

[Sonic]

I'm expecting Luca to be knocked out in Q2. The current format is very different from the 12 laps, hour long session of old, and all of the 'old boys' (DC, Wurz et all) struggled to adapt to this new pressure pot of a qualifying.

He'll come into his own in the race - with the right stratagy he'll be metronomic and pound round to hopefully score his first points.

[Knock-on]

Just a thought:

You have an Itallian in a Ferrari
This Itallian thought his F1 racing career was over
He has also never scored a point with a realistic chance in a potentially race winning car

His stomach will be turning quicker than his engine come race day.

Good luck to him but that is a hell of a lot of pressure to cope with.

[Bezza]

Why is that ? He knows that car more than anybody else, and if he will survive the first 3/4 laps he can finish on points. OK maybe not in Valencia but he can do that in the next race again. Go Luca :up:

Poor choice by Ferrari in my opinion. Badoer is a good test driver but is not a good racing driver. Back in '99 they did the right thing and appointed Salo, who was a free agent and much better than Badoer, who was, ironically, being outpaced by Marc Gene in a Minardi that year.

Badoer has had his chances in F1, he is not F1 material and never will be and this appointment astonishes me.

[truefan72]

Poor choice by Ferrari in my opinion. Badoer is a good test driver but is not a good racing driver. Back in '99 they did the right thing and appointed Salo, who was a free agent and much better than Badoer, who was, ironically, being outpaced by Marc Gene in a Minardi that year.

Badoer has had his chances in F1, he is not F1 material and never will be and this appointment astonishes me.

If you were Ferrari and the WDC and WCC are a lost cause, the high profile, high attention move of schumi fell through, what would be the next best thing.
An Italian driving a ferrari after nearly 2 decades again. To me from PR perspective, and "feel good story" this was the best option for them. If they were 100% in the fight for either the WCC or WDC, they would have gone out and signed Bourdais, NPJr, sato, or klien. I'm pretty sure they would have/probably had made a run at liuzzi or pantano.
Its tough for gene but to me there is nothing between them and nobody is owed a seat, especially since they were both hired specifically to be testers.

They should have called up Salo IMO ;)

[wedge]

I appreciate what you are saying Garry but the feedback from a driver is still important.

Not much these days with data acquisition and the amount of sensors the cars have these days.

A good test driver is someone who can drive consistantly lap after lap and not adapt to the handling characteristics from set up changes and new bits and pieces.

[Valve Bounce]

Just a thought:

You have an Itallian in a Ferrari
This Itallian thought his F1 racing career was over
He has also never scored a point with a realistic chance in a potentially race winning car

His stomach will be turning quicker than his engine come race day.

Good luck to him but that is a hell of a lot of pressure to cope with.

Yeah!! they would have been better off offering the seat to Jaime. I don't think he's Italian. And he's just a pup in F1. He could have ended up on the podium.

[Knock-on]

Yeah!! they would have been better off offering the seat to Jaime. I don't think he's Italian. And he's just a pup in F1. He could have ended up on the podium.

???

Who said Luca wouldn't do a good job?

I merely said it's a lot of pressure on the guy.

[Valve Bounce]

If you were Ferrari and the WDC and WCC are a lost cause, the high profile, high attention move of schumi fell through, what would be the next best thing.
An Italian driving a ferrari after nearly 2 decades again. To me from PR perspective, and "feel good story" this was the best option for them.

Just imagine if he wins!! Hollywood producers and Directors would have been knocking on Ferrari's door for the rights to the story, and, of course, to buy a the latest model Ferrari. I mean, this would even be greater than Free Willy.

[Valve Bounce]

???

Who said Luca wouldn't do a good job?



Not me. :(

Maybe ioan - ask him again.

ioan, I don't know about you, but I trust more La Gazzetta dello Sport than Autosport

Which is like saying you trust one liar more than another.

[christophulus]

I still reckon Gene would've been the more sensible choice, he's had far more recent racing experience (he won the Le Mans 24h a couple of months back), but nonetheless I think Badoer will be solid.

What do Ferrari have to lose, really? Bringing in another F1 driver at short notice would be tricky, at least Badoer knows how the team works and can probably set up the car well. He'll bring the car home in the points and can offer insight for developments, so I say good luck to him :up:

[jens]

Erm... if Ferrari wanted to give that race seat to a test driver so much, then I agree with those, who say that Gene would have been a much more sensible choice as he has been racing recently. Besides that Valencia is Gene's home race, so it would have made sense. If Ferrari wanted to thank Badoer for his long-time test work, then better give him a chance at Monza, on his homecircuit.

After 10 years away from racing, I suspect Badoer will find contemporary F1 level a bit too much to cope with. He will likely struggle to get even through Q1. But at the same time quite funny that now we have already two drivers on the grid, who made their debut already back in 1993!! In current youth-obsessed F1 climate quite amazing.

[race_director]

Erm... if Ferrari wanted to give that race seat to a test driver so much, then I agree with those, who say that Gene would have been a much more sensible choice as he has been racing recently. Besides that Valencia is Gene's home race, so it would have made sense. If Ferrari wanted to thank Badoer for his long-time test work, then better give him a chance at Monza, on his homecircuit.

After 10 years away from racing, I suspect Badoer will find contemporary F1 level a bit too much to cope with. He will likely struggle to get even through Q1. But at the same time quite funny that now we have already two drivers on the grid, who made their debut already back in 1993!! In current youth-obsessed F1 climate quite amazing.

i am really amazed at people with all the post which actually question why luca was given the chance

After being a loyal employee for nearly 10 years with a team. why would not like the team reward him with a drive

Even though everyone wants to have the best guy in the race seat. we still are humans we still value relations and people close to us. at least do that

Luca might be rusty agree . but still people at ferrari would love to reward him for the his association for a long time he has been with the team.

Luca if tried would have landed a sure shot driver with the small teams . but he bilieved in ferrari and stuck with them during good and both bad times.

so whats wrong in giving him a try. its a temp seat only. not a full year drive.


to all the sarcastic posters on luca.

If u question Luca ability. i suggest u go and drive the ferrari. would love to see your neck break when u turn into turn 1 in ur out lap from pits.

If u do not value relationship and live a self centric live. then suicide is the best option


I am done with this post :(

[Rollo]

FGS, Badoer never ever drove the F60!
Running your mouth without knowing the basic facts?! :rolleyes:

http://www.forumula1.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/514107.jpg
http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/ferrari-unveil-new-f60-for-2009/
The article was written 12th January, 2009.

Check the helmet against Ferrari's own website:
http://www.ferrari.com/English/Scuderia/Scuderia_Ferrari/Drivers/Pages/Luca_Badoer.aspx
http://cdn.ferrari.com/_layouts/Ferrari/Ferrari_AssetResizeImage.aspx?ImageUrl=/Site_Collection_Image_Hero_960x200/081219_080004mug_badoer_960x200.jpg

Check and mate.

[ykiki]

http://www.forumula1.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/514107.jpg
http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/ferrari-unveil-new-f60-for-2009/
The article was written 12th January, 2009.

Check the helmet against Ferrari's own website:
http://www.ferrari.com/English/Scuderia/Scuderia_Ferrari/Drivers/Pages/Luca_Badoer.aspx
http://cdn.ferrari.com/_layouts/Ferrari/Ferrari_AssetResizeImage.aspx?ImageUrl=/Site_Collection_Image_Hero_960x200/081219_080004mug_badoer_960x200.jpg

Check and mate.

Ummm....no offense, but that looks like Massa's helmet to me (especially the diagonal stripes under the visor and the swath of green at the top).
http://sites.fabricatools.ig.com.br/site/midias/1035001-1035500/1035432.jpg
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2009/gen/f1-2009-gen-tm-0024.jpg
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2009/gen/f1-2009-gen-tm-0028.jpg

[Valve Bounce]

Ummm....no offense, but that looks like Massa's helmet to me (especially the diagonal stripes under the visor).

:uhoh: Looks like Rollo is in big trouble. Wait till Mister ioan gets here. :(

[ykiki]

Notice the quoted article (12 Jan 09) just says that Luca Badoer was in attendance at the launch of the car. It doesn't say he actually drove it that day.

I don't play chess, but I get the feeling that "Check and mate" might have been a bit premature.

That being said, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what Luca can do with the car in Valencia, and I wish him the best.

[Rollo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8178345.stm

Williams also pointed out that Ferrari chose Schumacher over current test drivers Luca Badoer and Marc Gene, who have both tested the team's 2009 model.

[ykiki]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8178345.stm

See! Now that is what you should've quoted earlier instead of showing us pictures of Massa driving the car! :p

[Saint Devote]

My first thought when I heard Luca had got the drive was what happens if he out-performs Kimi? Where would that leave the Finn then?

Considering Massa has outperformed him for some time he is not easily embarrased.

So if Badoer does better than him - which I do doubt - I guess he will just go and have some coke and ice cream!

[Valve Bounce]

See! Now that is what you should've quoted earlier instead of showing us pictures of Massa driving the car! :p

Yeah!! lucky Rollo got that in before you-know-who turned up. :eek:

[Jon 'Massa' Beagles]

I think the confusion here may have come from the fact that Badoer hasn't participated in a recognised test session in the F60, but he must have tested the car over the winter at Fiorano/in the wind tunnel etc if Williams are saying that I would presume...

[ioan]

After being a loyal employee for nearly 10 years with a team. why would not like the team reward him with a drive

Maybe ecause they already paid him royally for 10 years?

[ioan]

http://www.forumula1.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/514107.jpg
http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/ferrari-unveil-new-f60-for-2009/
The article was written 12th January, 2009.

Check the helmet against Ferrari's own website:
http://www.ferrari.com/English/Scuderia/Scuderia_Ferrari/Drivers/Pages/Luca_Badoer.aspx
http://cdn.ferrari.com/_layouts/Ferrari/Ferrari_AssetResizeImage.aspx?ImageUrl=/Site_Collection_Image_Hero_960x200/081219_080004mug_badoer_960x200.jpg

Check and mate.

:laugh: :rotflmao:

This made my day!
You managed to give yourself the check and mate! :rotflmao:

You obviously don't know much about the Ferrari drivers.

Thanks for the laughs! :laugh:

[ioan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8178345.stm

That's just BS from Williams, Badoer NEVER drove the F60.

[ioan]

I think the confusion here may have come from the fact that Badoer hasn't participated in a recognised test session in the F60, but he must have tested the car over the winter at Fiorano/in the wind tunnel etc if Williams are saying that I would presume...

Yeah, he probably drove the car in the wind tunnel!!! :D :p :

AFAIK and I'm yet to see any hard proof of this not being true, the F60 was launched on the 12th January 2009 and since than Badoer never drove the car, and I doubt he drove it before the launch either as there is not even one mention of it.

[Garry Walker]

Okay, lets put an end to this charade and lets use FACTS (the enemy of every forum idiot).
According to Forix.autosport.com Luca Badoer has tested 5 times since last november, I will copy the data here because obviously not everyone has access to Forix.

1 17 Nov 2008 Catalunya
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'23.264
108
2 18 Nov 2008 Catalunya
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'22.425
127
3 19 Nov 2008 Catalunya
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'22.866
120
4 16 Dec 2008 Algarve
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'31.320
71
5 17 Dec 2008 Algarve
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'30.163
75

As this shows, he has not tested this year, and he only tested with the F2008 car.

You dont trust forix? Okay, another source then.
Motorsport-total.com has test statistics from every year and I will here give a link to a page which shows how many test days every driver has had this year since 1st of january.
You will notice Badoer is not amongst those drivers, therefor he has not tested the current Ferrari car.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/tests/statist_show.php?l=1&o=1&zsd=1&zsm=1&zsy=2009&zed=13&zem=8&zey=2009

Check and Mate.

[Garry Walker]

I think the confusion here may have come from the fact that Badoer hasn't participated in a recognised test session in the F60, but he must have tested the car over the winter at Fiorano/in the wind tunnel etc if Williams are saying that I would presume...

Tested the car in the wind tunnel? Jesus christ, you are 22 years old and you say such things.

[Jon 'Massa' Beagles]

Tested the car in the wind tunnel? Jesus christ, you are 22 years old and you say such things.

Lol yeah realised that as soon as I'd posted it...thought about editing then thought 'meh' they will know I didn't mean in the ACTUAL tunnel itself but rather in whatever other straight line tests etc.

My bad it would appear. :p

[pino]

Its funny how the only people who are giving support to Luca are non Ferrari fans..



Wrong ! I am a Ferrari fan :p :

[ioan]

Okay, lets put an end to this charade and lets use FACTS (the enemy of every forum idiot).
According to Forix.autosport.com Luca Badoer has tested 5 times since last november, I will copy the data here because obviously not everyone has access to Forix.

1 17 Nov 2008 Catalunya
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'23.264
108
2 18 Nov 2008 Catalunya
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'22.425
127
3 19 Nov 2008 Catalunya
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'22.866
120
4 16 Dec 2008 Algarve
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'31.320
71
5 17 Dec 2008 Algarve
Ferrari F2008 / 2.4 V8 1'30.163
75

As this shows, he has not tested this year, and he only tested with the F2008 car.

You dont trust forix? Okay, another source then.
Motorsport-total.com has test statistics from every year and I will here give a link to a page which shows how many test days every driver has had this year since 1st of january.
You will notice Badoer is not amongst those drivers, therefor he has not tested the current Ferrari car.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/tests/statist_show.php?l=1&o=1&zsd=1&zsm=1&zsy=2009&zed=13&zem=8&zey=2009

Check and Mate.

Excellent info!
I think I will get myself a Forix subscription from now on, it will help put an end to speculations at an earlier phase.

Thank for sharing this info with us.

[ioan]

Its funny how the only people who are giving support to Luca are non Ferrari fans.

Maybe because they support other teams and drivers and don't want a better driver to give their favorites a run for their money? ;)

[Garry Walker]

Excellent info!
I think I will get myself a Forix subscription from now on, it will help put an end to speculations at an earlier phase.

Thank for sharing this info with us.

You are welcome.

I am not autosport fan (the magazine, not the sport!), but forix is worth it (eventhought i cant remember how much it costs)

[ioan]

I doubt it mate, especially as the Ferrari is only the fourth fastest car anyway, so wouldn't make much difference this season.

Getting 3rd in the WCC is what Ferrari and it's fans are aiming for right now, and rest assured McLaren, Williams and Toyota fans (including pino :p ) would love their favorite teams to beat Ferrari to that spot in the final standings. On the other hand you have those who support a driver rather than a team and they would also like to know that their favorite has one more chance to get on the podium while Badoer does the testing.

[Knock-on]

I think you will find that most people dont really give a toss who Ferrari put in the seat. However, as racing fans, we wished Luca well as a courtesy, as we all did when Schumacher said he was returning.

It would be nice if some people recognised this genuine positive response to Luca for what it is and have the grace to accept it at face value.

[Valve Bounce]

I think you will find that most people dont really give a toss who Ferrari put in the seat. However, as racing fans, we wished Luca well as a courtesy, as we all did when Schumacher said he was returning.

It would be nice if some people recognised this genuine positive response to Luca for what it is and have the grace to accept it at face value.

The last ten words of your post doesn't make any sense...................... ............................to someone. He thinks you're talking about Ballet.

[ioan]

The last ten words of your post doesn't make any sense...................... ............................to someone. He thinks you're talking about Ballet.

Maybe it's time for you to catch some sleep, and I'm sure that tomorrow with fresh energy you will understand those last 10 words too! :p :

Its funny how the only people who are giving support to Luca are non Ferrari fans..

I hadn't stated anything on the subject yet, but for the record I'm glad the drive has gone to Luca.

I don't expect him to win, or to be a match for Kimi (well, I fecking hope not or that would just be the icing on the cake of the piss take!), but he is a Ferrari man so deserves it.

[Knock-on]

I hadn't stated anything on the subject yet, but for the record I'm glad the drive has gone to Luca.

I don't expect him to win, or to be a match for Kimi (well, I fecking hope not or that would just be the icing on the cake of the piss take!), but he is a Ferrari man so deserves it.

:laugh: :up:

But, what if he was as fast.....

Just joking ;)

[Sonic]

I think you will find that most people dont really give a toss who Ferrari put in the seat. However, as racing fans, we wished Luca well as a courtesy, as we all did when Schumacher said he was returning.

It would be nice if some people recognised this genuine positive response to Luca for what it is and have the grace to accept it at face value.

So say we all.

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe it's time for you to catch some sleep, and I'm sure that tomorrow with fresh energy you will understand those last 10 words too! :p :

Hey!! got a nibble!! :p :

[woody2goody]

Ioan, do you seriously think he'll struggle to score ANY points, for the ENTIRE duration of the rest of the season?

This guy isn't Giovanni Lavaggi or Alex Yoong circa 2001. Or Yuji ide.

Oh, everyone else who speaks coherently and in a non-insulting manner, do we have any predictions on qulifying and race positions for Badoer in Valencia?

Quali: 11th
Race: 7th

[Saint Devote]

Renault have Grosjean, Williams have Hulkenberg, Ferrari have nobody.

This is the same team led by a motor mouth who likes to point fingers at others yet his team is currently mismanaged and has to depend on an old champion or clunkers called "test drivers" that cannot be considered able race drivers.

F1 is supposed to be about placing the best in cars and after everything this is what is done by Ferrari?! This is the best they can do.

How pathetic.

[Saint Devote]

Ioan, do you seriously think he'll struggle to score ANY points, for the ENTIRE duration of the rest of the season?

This guy isn't Giovanni Lavaggi or Alex Yoong circa 2001. Or Yuji ide.

Oh, everyone else who speaks coherently and in a non-insulting manner, do we have any predictions on qulifying and race positions for Badoer in Valencia?

Quali: 11th
Race: 7th

He will be around 500ths of a second per lap slower than Raikonnen. Will not get out of Q2 - probably make it out of q3 because can he really be THAT awful?

The race will see him driving around and by the end totally exhausted finishing somewhere in the double digits.

[Jon 'Massa' Beagles]

Predictions for Luca you say woody2goody:

Qualifying - 19th
Race - 9th

He will push too hard in Quali and have an off in Q1, but will have a good race, get to grips with the car and move up to 9th place by the end.

[Sonic]

He'll be aprox 0.5 secs behind Kimi, and based on Alonso/Piquet another combo with 5 tenths between them, Luca will place 13th in quali go for a very long one stopper and being a metronomic test driver will climb to P7 for the finish.

Bosh

Renault have Grosjean, Williams have Hulkenberg, Ferrari have nobody.

This is the same team led by a motor mouth who likes to point fingers at others yet his team is currently mismanaged and has to depend on an old champion or clunkers called "test drivers" that cannot be considered able race drivers.

F1 is supposed to be about placing the best in cars and after everything this is what is done by Ferrari?! This is the best they can do.

How pathetic.

I'm not going to be as hard on Luca as some, but there is certainly some truth in what you say.

[BDunnell]

Leaving Schumacher out of this, I struggle to think of anyone who might conceivably be substantially better, who is available contractually, race-ready and would be willing to take the seat at such short notice knowing that doing so would probably leave them on a hiding to nothing. After all, no driver is likely to shock the world with their pace in the car, and that could be damaging to an up-and-coming career. Just as Salo was in 1999, Badoer seems like an utterly unexciting but also utterly risk-free choice. If he doesn't do well, so what? If he does, it's a pleasant bonus.

[ioan]

Leaving Schumacher out of this, I struggle to think of anyone who might conceivably be substantially better, who is available contractually, race-ready and would be willing to take the seat at such short notice knowing that doing so would probably leave them on a hiding to nothing.

Sato, Bourdais, Piquet Jr., just pick one of them and you are guaranteed to pick a better racer than Badoer.

[BDunnell]

Sato, Bourdais, Piquet Jr., just pick one of them and you are guaranteed to pick a better racer than Badoer.

Understand what you mean. Let's see. Must say I would never have cited Piquet, nor Sato, and hadn't really thought about Bourdais.

[ioan]

Understand what you mean. Let's see. Must say I would never have cited Piquet, nor Sato, and hadn't really thought about Bourdais.

Piquet showed good race craft with good moves this season. What he lacks is the confidence in the car in order to push it 100% for a good qualifying lap and IMO Renault didn't help.

Bourdais didn't set the world on fire either but I think he's better than Badoer.

Sato, he did great in the Super Aguri F1, he showed that he has good speed and race craft when he get's his head down and works seriously.

Anyway, Badoer will get a race in the F60 as reward for his almost 10 years as a a devoted test driver. We'll see how he goes.

[BDunnell]

Yes, you may have a point, ioan.

[jens]

i am really amazed at people with all the post which actually question why luca was given the chance

After being a loyal employee for nearly 10 years with a team. why would not like the team reward him with a drive

Even though everyone wants to have the best guy in the race seat. we still are humans we still value relations and people close to us. at least do that

Luca might be rusty agree . but still people at ferrari would love to reward him for the his association for a long time he has been with the team.

Luca if tried would have landed a sure shot driver with the small teams . but he bilieved in ferrari and stuck with them during good and both bad times.

so whats wrong in giving him a try. its a temp seat only. not a full year drive.


to all the sarcastic posters on luca.

If u question Luca ability. i suggest u go and drive the ferrari. would love to see your neck break when u turn into turn 1 in ur out lap from pits.

If u do not value relationship and live a self centric live. then suicide is the best option


I am done with this post :(

Heh. :) Well, the more I think about it, the more the thought of Luca making one farewell return to F1 sounds interesting. But still it would have made far more sense to give Gene a chance at Valencia and Badoer at Monza, not the other way around, which Ferrari might do.

And in terms of questioning Badoer's "ability", then when realistically assessing his chances, it's going to be rather difficult for him to get through to Q2. The competition nowadays is so tight that even losing by 3-4 tenths to Kimi he could qualify almost ten positions backwards.

The main argument for giving Badoer his last F1 chance is indeed about 'rewarding' him for his hard work, and certainly not his performance or ability as a racing driver. So it's quite logical that there is scepticism about his performance level at a Formula One Grand Prix.

[seb_sh]

I subscribe to the view that Badoer was give the drive as sort of a consolation prize. He was never a top driver but he put in the hours testing and it was an emotional choice to give him some races. If there was more at stake they probably would have gone with someone else maybe Bourdais or Piquet as at least they have experience with current cars and have shown some speed at times. All in all, it will be interesting to see how Luca does.

[Saint Devote]

Anyway, Badoer will get a race in the F60 as reward for his almost 10 years as a a devoted test driver. We'll see how he goes.

Badoer has been well paid and drives f1 Ferraris, so "devoted employee" is not exactly appropriate. What else would he have done?

[Saint Devote]

Sato, Bourdais, Piquet Jr., just pick one of them and you are guaranteed to pick a better racer than Badoer.

Never.
Sato has been out of a racing car for a light year and to consider him would have made Ferrari look even more incompetent than they have this year.

The other two did not make good use of their drives and never stopped complaining - Bourdais was constantly whining and of course now we know that Piquet is an hysterical little girl.

Point is they they do not deserve to be in a Ferrari, regardless.

[Saint Devote]

I'm not going to be as hard on Luca as some, but there is certainly some truth in what you say.

And would you concur that in the wake of Massa's accident it ought to spur Ferrari towards deciding who is going to be their new crew - both race and test drivers.

I think Massa's accident was career ending and this also has something to do with Montezemolo's third car wish.

Unless the Ferrari culture has changed, which I doubt, I would not at all be surprised to find the scuderia sign Kubica and Alonso.

And THAT, may well be a nitro team mix - although I remember how everyone thought that the Scheckter-Villeneuve mix would shatter Ferrari - but what an incredible team it would be. Given a good car they would win for Ferrari.

[Valve Bounce]

Not one of my favorites when he was racing for Honda, as most people here know. He was, nevertheless quite good in his first year in F1. Although he was fast, he was also prone to accidents. Then came his second year T Honda which was a disaster. Pitted against a smooth bunsen, around whom the car was set up, Sato started to come up with moves in races which he never even tried in quals, practice or even in testing.

But when Super Aguri was created, Sato had a good mate in ant for team mate, and the two put in some good performances in both quals and some races, until Honda realised these two guys, in outdated cars were making the factory Hondas look silly. So Honda hobbled Super Aguri by denying them upgraded parts and when that didn't work, they pulled the plug.

So for anyone to say that Sato has been out of racing for a light year or alluded to the fact that he would make Ferrari look incompetent is simply posting delusional crap here to try to pat himself on his back to make himself look knowledgeable and important in this forum.

So, for once, I have to agree with ioan. :( At least ioan backs himself with facts, not stuff like a cross between a bulldog and shytesu.

Badoer has been given the drive because he has been a loyal Ferrari test driver for years, and I suspect that without any prior testing of this car, nobody else available would have done anything spectacular like getting on the podium anyway. And if, by chance, he did well, there would indeed be a feel good ending to the story.

[callum122]

I think it's great Luca got the drive, he deserves it. Perhaps Schumacher will continue to train, work the neck muscles and take the seat from him for Belgium.

Anyway, Valencia prediction for Badoer: Qual 15th, Race 11th.

[leopard]

Perhaps if Badoer can finish 10th or better, Ferrari will keep his seat safe until Massa declared fit to race again.

[CNR]

will he get to drive ?
http://www.betus.com/sports-betting/f1-racing/articles/f1-news-contract-clause-could-free-alonso/


Bernie Eccelestone, CEO of Formula One, is very sensitive to the whole thing, and he has suggested that Renault should release Alonso in order to take Massa's place on the grid.
"If Renault would release Alonso, and if Ferrari want him, it would be the best thing for Formula One, for Valencia, for everybody," Ecclestone said.
I did find that to be a curious statement coming from F1's equivalent of David Stern or Roger Goodell. When you suggest that one team essentially "borrowing" or even stealing a driver from another team, especially a two-time world champion, is "best thing for Formula One....for everybody," you are opening up a real can of worms, considering that Alonso has, by all accounts, been courted heavily by the Ferrari team to jump over.

[ioan]

Never.
Sato has been out of a racing car for a light year and to consider him would have made Ferrari look even more incompetent than they have this year.

The other two did not make good use of their drives and never stopped complaining - Bourdais was constantly whining and of course now we know that Piquet is an hysterical little girl.

Point is they they do not deserve to be in a Ferrari, regardless.

Been out for a light yera, constantly whining, hysterical little girl? So nothing objective to say from you, eh?! And I was thinking we are supposed to asses racing skils. :D

PS: Sato did drive F1 cars in winter testing. ;)

What this situation shows, and what I think Devote is getting at, is that the Ferrari structure with regard to available drivers leads a lot to be desired.

A pensioner with a cricked neck and a driver who hasn't raced for a decade isn't the greatest bit of driver development programming.

[Valve Bounce]

What this situation shows, and what I think Devote is getting at, is that the Ferrari structure with regard to available drivers leads a lot to be desired.

A pensioner with a cricked neck and a driver who hasn't raced for a decade isn't the greatest bit of driver development programming.

And what I suppose you are leading to is that there are no future WDC's out of a job right now looking for a ride!
The corollary to this theory is that if there was such a driver, he would have been signed up by one of the teams before the start of this year. I guess I am a Sudoku addict, which leads me to think in logical terms.
Except Fernando (for just one race), and, of course, greedy Bernie would like to line his pockets by hoping Renault would release him for the Valencia drive.

And what I suppose you are leading to is that there are no future WDC's out of a job right now looking for a ride!
The corollary to this theory is that if there was such a driver, he would have been signed up by one of the teams before the start of this year. I guess I am a Sudoku addict, which leads me to think in logical terms.
Except Fernando (for just one race), and, of course, greedy Bernie would like to line his pockets by hoping Renault would release him for the Valencia drive.

Not quite what i meant. The "future WDC" didn't need to be out of a drive this year....he needed to be signed up to a development driver scheme a la Vettel, a la Hulkenburg, a la Kubica all were or are.

Ferrari traditionally just cherry pick talent....which is ok if you don't mind paying top dollar and don't mind when circumstances mean your choice of back-up is severely limited.

Massa was more a Todt protege than a Ferrari one so doesn't really count as a true driver development scheme product, but his rise alone should have shown Ferrari management the value of taking aother young hotshoe under their wing.

[Sonic]

Sato did drive F1 cars in winter testing. ;)

True. But surely the fact that he was overlooked by smaller teams would mean that he certainly wouldn't be good enough to drive for a front runner.

I also agree with Tamb's point that Ferrari is perhaps one of the only teams who don't have a a young up and coming tester/reserve. I do recall a youngster testing for ferrari perhaps 12 months ago (I think he was an F3 guy) but I can't recall more details off the top of my head. Anyone know who he was?

[Sonic]

A bit of googling suggests the guy was Mirko Bortolotti. But a prize for success in italian F3 is hardly a proper development program.

[ioan]

I also agree with Tamb's point that Ferrari is perhaps one of the only teams who don't have a a young up and coming tester/reserve.

Not sure I understand what one of the only teams exactly means.

[Sonic]

Well I thought to myself; who doesn't have a decent youngster in the test role or in the works in a lower formula? Answer = Ferrari & Force India (IMO) hence my statement that they are one of the only (as opposed to the only).

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71438

"Ferrari to set up young driver scheme

By Charles Bradley and Steven English Thursday, October 16th 2008, 11:28 GMT

Ferrari are in the process of setting up a young driver development programme to find and bring on talent for the future.

Rival manufacturers including Mercedes, Renault, Toyota and Honda have long brought drivers through the junior ranks on similar schemes, and of the drivers currently on the fringes of Formula One, GP2 race winners Lucas di Grassi, Romain Grosjean, Kamui Kobayashi and Luca Filippi are all contracted to F1 manufacturers already.

Ferrari F1 team boss Stefano Domenicali has revealed that they now want to introduce a similar scheme.

"Our plan is to have a young driver programme connected to F1 in the future," he told Italian magazine SportAutoMoto.

"In these times of cost-cutting, it's not easy to start a new programme, but we need good drivers for the future. Nothing is defined yet, but you will know details soon."

That was in October 08, and I don't recall seeing any details since then, so it would appear that it didn't happen.

[seb_sh]

Perhaps they are selecting prospective drivers this year and will start to support them next year.

Force India have a young driver in the current lineup and I think VM is looking to bring young Indian drivers to F1. Not exactly a young driver program but better than nothing.

[Giuseppe F1]

That was in October 08, and I don't recall seeing any details since then, so it would appear that it didn't happen.

It did happen!!....well the beginnings at least - A tie in to regularly test the top 3 finishers of the Italian F3 championship each year:

Ferrari test Italian F3 trio at Fiorano (Nov 27 2008)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72265

Ferrari to test Italian F3 drivers again (Apr 22 2009)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74702

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116218.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116229.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116227.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116219.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116215.jpg

[gloomyDAY]

I'd love to see a competitive Italian driver in a Ferrari.

The Italians currently in Formula 1 (Liuzzi, Fisichella, and Trulli) are in the last throes of a Formula 1 career. Some fresh blood can't do much harm.

[Saint Devote]

I'd love to see a competitive Italian driver in a Ferrari.

The Italians currently in Formula 1 (Liuzzi, Fisichella, and Trulli) are in the last throes of a Formula 1 career. Some fresh blood can't do much harm.

Rationally, the Ferrari team do not consider nationality.

In my view the three drivers you have mentioned are already beyond their sell by date.

[Saint Devote]

Been out for a light yera, constantly whining, hysterical little girl? So nothing objective to say from you, eh?! And I was thinking we are supposed to asses racing skils. :D

PS: Sato did drive F1 cars in winter testing. ;)

Too many people become sentimental over drivers. Drivers like Sato and Piquet have shown what they can do - nothing special and mostly disappointing. Not to forget that when they DO do well that they are reaching their limit.

Time to move on and look out for the next driver.

Then there are these bloody drivers that stay and stay and stay, no better than they ever were before and unlikely to improve. There was a good editorial in the Autosport to that effect a couple of weeks ago.

Such a pity we no longer have the authoritative, lucid and caustic view of the late and much missed James Hunt.

He used to take drivers apart that would blame the car for their inadequacies - for example Arnoux when he blamed the handling characteristics of the Ligier turbo - James declared that it was bollocks and if Arnoux was having difficulties he should get out and give another driver a chance.

James you were always the spririt of the party and we love you!!!

As James said, it is always the bores that stay at the party until the very end - and I can think of no more boring people than Barrichello [groan], Trulli [is he actually alive?] and of course Fisichella [whats wrong THIS time Giancarlo!!].

So people, suck up your sentimentality and get with the goddamn program!

[Ranger]

Too many people become sentimental over drivers. Drivers like Sato and Piquet have shown what they can do - nothing special and mostly disappointing. Not to forget that when they DO do well that they are reaching their limit.

Time to move on and look out for the next driver.

Then there are these bloody drivers that stay and stay and stay, no better than they ever were before and unlikely to improve. There was a good editorial in the Autosport to that effect a couple of weeks ago.

Such a pity we no longer have the authoritative, lucid and caustic view of the late and much missed James Hunt.

He used to take drivers apart that would blame the car for their inadequacies - for example Arnoux when he blamed the handling characteristics of the Ligier turbo - James declared that it was bollocks and if Arnoux was having difficulties he should get out and give another driver a chance.

James you were always the spririt of the party and we love you!!!

As James said, it is always the bores that stay at the party until the very end - and I can think of no more boring people than Barrichello [groan], Trulli [is he actually alive?] and of course Fisichella [whats wrong THIS time Giancarlo!!].

So people, suck up your sentimentality and get with the goddamn program!

Well there's a minute of my life I'm not getting back.

The fact remains that Sato, Bourdais and Piquet are all much better than Luca Badoer.

Do you disagree?

[Valve Bounce]

Well there's a minute of my life I'm not getting back.

Surely you treasure all these gems of knowledge. Makes me look forward to ioans posts. :(

[jens]

Saint Devote, I see that you are very consistent in criticizing drivers.

I would like to ask you, which 20 (or next year 26) should make up the grid if most of them aren't good enough, too old, etc?

[Saint Devote]

Well there's a minute of my life I'm not getting back.

The fact remains that Sato, Bourdais and Piquet are all much better than Luca Badoer.

Do you disagree?

Actually there are no minutes of your life you receive back.

I do not know that - they all raced years after he did, but that will be resolved in the next few weeks.

Badoer is a selection that makes sense for Ferrari as he does their primary testing and knows the car far better than anyone else available and assisting Raikonnen to try and win at least at Monza is a deserving privilege to race the second Ferrari.

[Saint Devote]

Saint Devote, I see that you are very consistent in criticizing drivers.

I would like to ask you, which 20 (or next year 26) should make up the grid if most of them aren't good enough, too old, etc?

What a lovely question Jens :-]!!!

Actually I do not mean to criticze the drivers - I love the sport too much although sometimes I may get carried away - English is not the most delicate of languages. My comments would probably sound better in French or Arabic!

Hamilton
Kovaleinen
Raikonnen
Alonso
Rosberg
Kubica
Hulkenberg
Alguersuari
Ricciardo
Heidfeld
Webber
Vettel
Button
Glock
Massa
Bianchi
Grosjean
Buemi
Sutil
Senna

For the rest I would select what is left from winners in f3 and GP2 championships as well as drivers such as Jani, Paffett, Carroll and drivers as well as drivers Trulli, Fisichella and Barachello.

My point is not to automatically dismiss drivers just that there ought to be more movement through trying out.

It is not about being bloody minded but striving to place those with the greatest potential in seats.

I realize it is easier said than doen, but I alsorecall the fuss that was raised when Sauber gave Raikonnen his try.

If not for Sauber, Kimi may well have never been known. Teams need to be like Sauber, Minardi and Jordan were.

[ioan]

Teams need to be like Sauber, Minardi and Jordan were.

You mean signing pay drivers?

[jens]

What a lovely question Jens :-]!!!

Actually I do not mean to criticze the drivers - I love the sport too much although sometimes I may get carried away - English is not the most delicate of languages. My comments would probably sound better in French or Arabic!

Hamilton
Kovaleinen
Raikonnen
Alonso
Rosberg
Kubica
Hulkenberg
Alguersuari
Ricciardo
Heidfeld
Webber
Vettel
Button
Glock
Massa
Bianchi
Grosjean
Buemi
Sutil
Senna

For the rest I would select what is left from winners in f3 and GP2 championships as well as drivers such as Jani, Paffett, Carroll and drivers as well as drivers Trulli, Fisichella and Barachello.

My point is not to automatically dismiss drivers just that there ought to be more movement through trying out.

It is not about being bloody minded but striving to place those with the greatest potential in seats.

I realize it is easier said than doen, but I alsorecall the fuss that was raised when Sauber gave Raikonnen his try.

If not for Sauber, Kimi may well have never been known. Teams need to be like Sauber, Minardi and Jordan were.

Fair enough, but I can't agree with your view that Trulli, Fisichella and Barrichello are the most "boring" people (and what on earth do you mean by boring?). They have had respectable and interesting careers with their own ups and downs, have at least matched most of their team-mates so far with an exception here or there and surely teams haven't employed them for way over ten years in F1 without a reason. Try to find something positive about them as well.

Several drivers in your proposed list are definetely NOT better than any of those three. And some of them (like Ricciardo) are simply too inexperienced to get thrown into F1 already by 2010.

But it's a usual tendency that usually rookie drivers, who show at least some promise, tend to be overrated... and highly experienced drivers - if they haven't fulfilled the former high hopes for whatever reason - become underrated. Those days, when the likes of Ralf, Fisi, Barri, also Wurz were hailed as future world champions, are well-remembered. Now we have reached another cycle and people think all rookies will be prove to be instantly better... only for many of them to disappoint later on.

You were talking about sentimentality and that's worthless. Well, I personally have respect for highly experienced drivers, with whose career progression I have grown up. Even if they haven't had the most magnificent careers in the world, they deserve more attention than they get, considering that usually youngsters (even if they are worse!) are in the spotlight instead of them. It's actually a bit sad to see those guys reaching a phase, when people say "they are crap and should get out", when I recall the days, when they were the next big things, when everything seemed so different and all the possibilities to have a magnificent career were wide-open.

[52Paddy]

I still reckon Gene would've been the more sensible choice, he's had far more recent racing experience (he won the Le Mans 24h a couple of months back), but nonetheless I think Badoer will be solid.

What do Ferrari have to lose, really? Bringing in another F1 driver at short notice would be tricky, at least Badoer knows how the team works and can probably set up the car well. He'll bring the car home in the points and can offer insight for developments, so I say good luck to him :up:

I'm happy that Badoer has finally got the Ferrari drive he has been in position for for so long. I don't think he will out perform Kimi but I wouldn't rule him out of a points finish if the car doesn't disappoint. I've never considered him a quick driver but who knows what Badoer is like now? Its been 10 years since he has raced an F1 car and its going to be quite a thing to see a driver return after a 10 year lay-off (the biggest gap of this like in history?)

I wish people would stop this moaning. christophulus pointed this out earlier [see quote:] Ferrari and Badoer have nothing to loose right now. They're not in a position to realistically take the challenge for the constructors' title this year. With Massa out of contention for the foreseeable future, the drivers championship has practically slipped through their fingers too. If Badoer does badly, so what? Badoer's career isn't ruined per se. Nothing is resting in his hands, he's just a filler. If he scores points, what a nice surprise for the team. :)

[woody2goody]

I think people get the impression Luca's been sat on his arse for the past 10 years.

He's been training, doing simulator work, TESTING the car for the last 9 years at least, and there's a good chance that despite his age, he's a better driver than he was when he signed for Ferrari.

It wouldn't surprise me if he has got better as he's been around Schumi, Kimi, Rubens and Massa for the last decade.

I don't think he'll set the world alight but he'll do better than most people expect.

[Ranger]

Badoer is a selection that makes sense for Ferrari as he does their primary testing and knows the car far better than anyone else available and assisting Raikonnen to try and win at least at Monza is a deserving privilege to race the second Ferrari.

Badoer has never tested the F60. Not once.

His appointment is only convenient because Ferrari don't have to go looking... but it doesn't mean he is the best available driver for the job.

Comparitive example: Alex Wurz in 2007.

[ioan]

Badoer will drive the F60 today and tomorrow as part of some kind of a commercial program. He will be limited to 100 kms/day and will have to use the extra hard demo Bridgestone tires.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77721

[Valve Bounce]

Actually there are no minutes of your life you receive back.

I do not know that - they all raced years after he did, but that will be resolved in the next few weeks.

Badoer is a selection that makes sense for Ferrari as he does their primary testing and knows the car far better than anyone else available and assisting Raikonnen to try and win at least at Monza is a deserving privilege to race the second Ferrari.

What do you get when you cross a Shytesu with a Bulldog? This!!

[52Paddy]

Badoer will drive the F60 today and tomorrow as part of some kind of a commercial program. He will be limited to 100 kms/day and will have to use the extra hard demo Bridgestone tires.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77721

Hardly enough miles to really aid him, but nonetheless goes to show you how easy it is to find loopholes in the regulations.

[ioan]

Hardly enough miles to really aid him, but nonetheless goes to show you how easy it is to find loopholes in the regulations.

It might help him understand the steering wheel layout and such other things he could have learned in the simulator, but that's it.

But no other use. Anyway according to some illuminated forum members Luca knows this car better than anybody else even though he'll be driving it today for the first time! ;)

[ioan]

What do you get when you cross a Shytesu with a Bulldog? This!!

You're losing to many minutes of your life Valve.
You'd be better off taking a flight to NZ and doing some skiing! :)

[Knock-on]

Any time spent in the car will be better than none at all but I agree with ioan that it's going to have no real practical use. The tyres are harder than Vinny Jones and he has to keep to 60mph max.

Any time spent in the car will be better than none at all but I agree with ioan that it's going to have no real practical use. The tyres are harder than Vinny Jones and he has to keep to 60mph max.

Yes, but that's still quicker than Bourdais could have managed.

[ArrowsFA1]

That was in October 08, and I don't recall seeing any details since then, so it would appear that it didn't happen.
Ferrari's intentions may be good with their "young driver scheme" but they're a little late! The investment the likes of McLaren, Red Bull and Renault have made over the years has produced mixed results but also one or two gems.

Ferrari's focus on a certain Michael Schumacher for a decade may have produced spectacular results, but longer term they have no-one "in development". I suppose Felipe has been their "young driver scheme", but I do wonder why they didn't do more much sooner. For the amount of money they pay Kimi they could have developed a whole grid of drivers :p

[Robinho]

It might help him understand the steering wheel layout and such other things he could have learned in the simulator, but that's it.

But no other use. Anyway according to some illuminated forum members Luca knows this car better than anybody else even though he'll be driving it today for the first time! ;)

i'm glad you posted this little snippet again, and whilst i didn't have any reason to question it before, i thought it was a little odd that Badoer had never ever even sat in the car before, but from http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46612 (and a similar report on Autosport


“With testing being so restricted this year,” he explained, “it’s very difficult to step up to the race seat. I drove the F60 at Fiorano just for two filming days, on Monday and Tuesday, but it was good to get into a car that I haven’t driven for several months.”

which seems to indidcate the contrary to your belief that he's bever driven the car previously.

[Sonic]

Interesting find Robinho. Not quite cast iron conclusive evidence but it certainly suggests some mileage somewhere.

[Robinho]

i don't doubt he's done bugger all in the car since preseason, and then possibly very little mileage even then, however that is not what "some illuminated forum members" would have us believe ;)

[ioan]

i'm glad you posted this little snippet again, and whilst i didn't have any reason to question it before, i thought it was a little odd that Badoer had never ever even sat in the car before, but from http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46612 (and a similar report on Autosport



which seems to indidcate the contrary to your belief that he's bever driven the car previously.

Well as you can see he first sat in the car this week on Monday and Tuesday.
I fail to see how I was wrong when I said previously that he never drove the car. :confused:

Also you are a bit late.
Posted almost 3 days ago by myself:

Badoer will drive the F60 today and tomorrow as part of some kind of a commercial program. He will be limited to 100 kms/day and will have to use the extra hard demo Bridgestone tires.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77721
It's on the previous page of this very thread! :D
:wave:

[ioan]

i don't doubt he's done bugger all in the car since preseason, and then possibly very little mileage even then, however that is not what "some illuminated forum members" would have us believe ;)

As pointed out in my other post, you're mixing up the time stamps a bit. ;)

[truefan72]

Yes, but that's still quicker than Bourdais could have managed.

where is the humor in that?

tell you what, Bourdais would be a better option for ferrari than either gene or badoer

[truefan72]

Ferrari's intentions may be good with their "young driver scheme" but they're a little late! The investment the likes of McLaren, Red Bull and Renault have made over the years has produced mixed results but also one or two gems.

Ferrari's focus on a certain Michael Schumacher for a decade may have produced spectacular results, but longer term they have no-one "in development". I suppose Felipe has been their "young driver scheme", but I do wonder why they didn't do more much sooner. For the amount of money they pay Kimi they could have developed a whole grid of drivers :p

...and the money they paid kimi was well rewarded with an F1 championship right?

I've never been a fan of teams trying to look 6-10 yrs down the future, as an approach to running an F1 team. More so than any sport, F1 is about as real time as it gets in any sport. It's good that macs, RB and BMW have spent money on development programs. but when you have a car and budget like macs or Ferrari, you can pretty much get any driver you want and usually end up with the best. Replacing one top driver with another. Money is better spent developing a superior car and dropping in a top flight driver, than spending money on developing drivers who may or may not drive the car 10 years down the road. This isn't a soccer team, it's F1. Hamilton's rise in mclaren is more of an exception than the norm. Red bull's young driver program is a disaster (party due to self inflicted wounds and dumb decisions)

[Saint Devote]

Ferrari's intentions may be good with their "young driver scheme" but they're a little late! The investment the likes of McLaren, Red Bull and Renault have made over the years has produced mixed results but also one or two gems.

Ferrari's focus on a certain Michael Schumacher for a decade may have produced spectacular results, but longer term they have no-one "in development". I suppose Felipe has been their "young driver scheme", but I do wonder why they didn't do more much sooner. For the amount of money they pay Kimi they could have developed a whole grid of drivers :p

You know that money does not produce drivers - in fact with Hamilton being the exception it has been the smaller less well-funded teams that have made the selections.

Alonso had Minardi, Raikonnen had Sauber, Schumacher had Jordan and Senna had Toleman - with Bernie hot in their heels to try and sign him for Brabham much to Piquet's alarm so he managed to put a stop to that.

The best driver finding scheme remains the Elf-Winfield scholarship which produced EIGHT drivers all on the grid at the same time. Alain Prost was the result of the Elf scheme.

If the money required today was neccessary then, and there was no Elf-Winfield program Prost himself said that he could never have moved beyond his karting.

I am happy for Badoer because it always makes me happy when I see people achieve dreams - and being a Ferrari driver in a grand prix regardless of what happens or if he will be driving at Spa, will have made everything worth it for Luca Badoer. Well done :-]

[ioan]

...and the money they paid kimi was well rewarded with an F1 championship right?

Not exactly enough.

[woody2goody]

You know that money does not produce drivers - in fact with Hamilton being the exception it has been the smaller less well-funded teams that have made the selections.

Alonso had Minardi, Raikonnen had Sauber, Schumacher had Jordan and Senna had Toleman - with Bernie hot in their heels to try and sign him for Brabham much to Piquet's alarm so he managed to put a stop to that.

The best driver finding scheme remains the Elf-Winfield scholarship which produced EIGHT drivers all on the grid at the same time. Alain Prost was the result of the Elf scheme.

If the money required today was neccessary then, and there was no Elf-Winfield program Prost himself said that he could never have moved beyond his karting.

I am happy for Badoer because it always makes me happy when I see people achieve dreams - and being a Ferrari driver in a grand prix regardless of what happens or if he will be driving at Spa, will have made everything worth it for Luca Badoer. Well done :-]

There is a lot of expectation coming from Ferrari's side with regards to the lack of a proper development scheme that is well funded etc.

That is that Ferrari expects themselves to be the dream job for an F1 driver. They will always believe (and probably rightly so) that they can go and sign any driver they want.

It just comes from being as successful as they have been.

I'll use football as an example. Teams like Chelsea and Liverpool have been accused of neglecting their reserves and their development, but when you can go and buy whoever you want to a certain degree, then developing one or two good players every couple of years is fine for them.

However, if you look at teams like Everton, Middlesbrough, West Ham, Leeds and Crewe, most of the time they bring their youngsters through, and I'd say half of them contribute to their teams for most of their careers, and the other half are sold for decent money.

It's a good business model whether the fans like it or not.

Red Bull especially have put a lot of effort into their scheme over the years, just look at the drivers they have brought through:

Vettel, Speed, Alguersuari, Liuzzi, Klien, Hartley, and a couple of others. Here are 6 drivers who probably wouldn't be in F1 as quickly as they were without RBR, and STR to be fair as well.

[ArrowsFA1]

...and the money they paid kimi was well rewarded with an F1 championship right?
True. There's no right or wrong way. The likes of Ferrari can pay established stars, and do not need to develop their own talent. It's just I think they may benefit from doing so.

You know that money does not produce drivers - in fact with Hamilton being the exception it has been the smaller less well-funded teams that have made the selections.
No. Of course money does not produce talent, but it does help it to flourish. Hamilton may be an exception but McLaren made a committment to him many years ago and are seeing the benefits of that, and will probably do so for many years to come.

The best driver finding scheme remains the Elf-Winfield scholarship which produced EIGHT drivers all on the grid at the same time. Alain Prost was the result of the Elf scheme.
That was quite a time for French drivers. The likes of Jabouille, Arnoux, Prost, Jarier, Pironi, Laffite, and Tambay were all on the grid in the late 70's.

[Knock-on]

i'm glad you posted this little snippet again, and whilst i didn't have any reason to question it before, i thought it was a little odd that Badoer had never ever even sat in the car before, but from http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46612 (and a similar report on Autosport



which seems to indidcate the contrary to your belief that he's bever driven the car previously.

As this goes against a few members that are self professed Ferrari experts and "in the know", we can only assume Luca is lying ;)

As this goes against a few members that are self professed Ferrari experts and "in the know", we can only assume Luca is lying ;)

http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-news/mclaren-edge-out-ferrari-in-portimao/

That was Badoers last test for Ferrari, in an F2008 muletta to 2009 regulations.

So perhaps you don't look so smart now, cock?

http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-news/mclaren-edge-out-ferrari-in-portimao/

That was Badoers last test for Ferrari, in an F2008 muletta to 2009 regulations.

So perhaps you don't look so smart now, cock?

That's "cock" as in -

2. A term of address, usually affectionate. E.g."Right cock, that'll be 46 pence please. Would you like it in a bag?"

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm

Not as in the 1st definition!

[DexDexter]

That's "cock" as in -

2. A term of address, usually affectionate. E.g."Right cock, that'll be 46 pence please. Would you like it in a bag?"

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm

Not as in the 1st definition!

Not all of us here are native speakers so I'm sure some of us know only the 1st definition :)

[woody2goody]

Not all of us here are native speakers so I'm sure some of us know only the 1st definition :)

:D

[Robinho]

Well as you can see he first sat in the car this week on Monday and Tuesday.
I fail to see how I was wrong when I said previously that he never drove the car. :confused:

Also you are a bit late.
Posted almost 3 days ago by myself:

It's on the previous page of this very thread! :D
:wave:

yet you managed to completley ignore my post, or apparently read it at all, glossing over the part where Luca Badoer (you've heard of him right?) says “With testing being so restricted this year,” he explained, “it’s very difficult to step up to the race seat. I drove the F60 at Fiorano just for two filming days, on Monday and Tuesday, but it was good to get into a car that I haven’t driven for several months.”

"GOOD TO GET INTO A CAR I HAVEN'T DRIVEN FOR SEVERAL MONTHS"

that, to me, reads that he has driven the car before this weeks test, which i did read about and understand.

that is where i am saying you are wrong.

now Tamberello has kindly posted some evidence (which you couldn't be bothered to when i asked a previous time, whilst telling everyone else they were wrong :rolleyes: ) which seems to indicate the last test Badoer had was in a Hybrid (2008 can in 2009 trim/spec) so its possible that Luca is a bit mixed up, but his statement (the guy who drives for Ferrari, yeah) said otherwise, which was the only evidence i had seen. all in all it makes little difference, as i agree that he has next to no time in a car of the current spec and rules, but my reposnse was purely to your posturing over everyone who has the temerity to question your authority on matters F1 or Ferrari.

but thanks for pointing out i'm wrong again without bothering to read my posts, i'ts a pity you can't take as much time to consider others opinions as you do proclaiming yours

[ioan]

http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-news/mclaren-edge-out-ferrari-in-portimao/

That was Badoers last test for Ferrari, in an F2008 muletta to 2009 regulations.

So perhaps you don't look so smart now, cock?

Let them be Tam, there's no need to bother.

After I said that Badoer never drove the F60, I posted this week the link to the story about him driving it for the first time this week for a commercial and than these 'heroes' come and say that I was wrong.

If they are happy with their logic than I couldn't care less.

[ioan]

"GOOD TO GET INTO A CAR I HAVEN'T DRIVEN FOR SEVERAL MONTHS"

that, to me, reads that he has driven the car before this weeks test, which i did read about and understand.

He was referring to a car as per F1 car because he didn't drive a F1 car at all since last December as all, well documented, sources attest.

I really don't care anymore about this subject as I doubt that even if Domenicalli and Di Montezemolo would tell you personally that Badoer never drove the F60 before this past Monday, you would still say he did. :rolleyes:

[Robinho]

i didn't say he did!!!! he did, i admit he was probably mistaken or misquoted, and i accept Tambs evidence of Badoers last test. what i objected to was the way you proclaimed yourself the authority and go about ending discussions.

thankyou for deciding what Badoer meant for me, i am clearly too daft to understand anything without having it pointed out for me.

the fact remains you said he never drove the car (several weeks ago)

i said that sounded a bit odd, but didn't disbelive the issue, despite the fact you didn't supply any evidence (i did ask)

then when i posted a quote from Badoer saying "its was good to get into a car i haven't driven for several months" you completley ignored my post, but told me i was wrong as i was referring to him driving the car this week.

now you have interpreted the comment the way that fits your point, despite the fact i have said i agree with the fact that he probably meant the hybrid car he drove back in December.

i'm not arguing with you over the point you made, i'm arguing over the manner in which you made it, refused to discuss valid evidence placed in front of you and your high and mighty attitude.

Thanks you Tamburello for clearing up the issue with some evidence, i'm happy that Badoer has not driven this exact car, only a hybrid model. my initial thoughts (when we debated the rights and wrongs of Shumi testing the car or not) were that it was odd for the contracted testers never to have driven the car, but you trampled all over the valid opinions with your rhetoric and now have decided to turn this into a quest to make me sound unreasonable in the face of evidence to the contrary.

i'm happy to accept i was wrong, but when only faced with Badoers comments and no "well documented sources" (which were later provided by someone other than yourself) i took him at face value, assuming the Ferrari test driver would know what he had driven. not such an unreasonable leap of faith to make i hope you'd agree.

as it was i assume he was misquoted of that some of his meaning was lost in translation (if he gave the interview in Italian)

sure if the comment had said "good to get back in an F1 car again" the meaning would have come across quite differently.

if your going to argue/debate with me, please have the courtesy to read my posts, not mix them up with what you think others have said, and respect my right to have an opinion rather than talk down to me like a naughty 12 year old - given that honour i'll be more than happy to return the favour, amke it petty and sarcastic and i'll play like that too

[ioan]

i didn't say he did!!!! he did, i admit he was probably mistaken or misquoted, and i accept Tambs evidence of Badoers last test. what i objected to was the way you proclaimed yourself the authority and go about ending discussions.

thankyou for deciding what Badoer meant for me, i am clearly too daft to understand anything without having it pointed out for me.

the fact remains you said he never drove the car (several weeks ago)

i said that sounded a bit odd, but didn't disbelive the issue, despite the fact you didn't supply any evidence (i did ask)

then when i posted a quote from Badoer saying "its was good to get into a car i haven't driven for several months" you completley ignored my post, but told me i was wrong as i was referring to him driving the car this week.

now you have interpreted the comment the way that fits your point, despite the fact i have said i agree with the fact that he probably meant the hybrid car he drove back in December.

i'm not arguing with you over the point you made, i'm arguing over the manner in which you made it, refused to discuss valid evidence placed in front of you and your high and mighty attitude.

Thanks you Tamburello for clearing up the issue with some evidence, i'm happy that Badoer has not driven this exact car, only a hybrid model. my initial thoughts (when we debated the rights and wrongs of Shumi testing the car or not) were that it was odd for the contracted testers never to have driven the car, but you trampled all over the valid opinions with your rhetoric and now have decided to turn this into a quest to make me sound unreasonable in the face of evidence to the contrary.

i'm happy to accept i was wrong, but when only faced with Badoers comments and no "well documented sources" (which were later provided by someone other than yourself) i took him at face value, assuming the Ferrari test driver would know what he had driven. not such an unreasonable leap of faith to make i hope you'd agree.

as it was i assume he was misquoted of that some of his meaning was lost in translation (if he gave the interview in Italian)

sure if the comment had said "good to get back in an F1 car again" the meaning would have come across quite differently.

if your going to argue/debate with me, please have the courtesy to read my posts, not mix them up with what you think others have said, and respect my right to have an opinion rather than talk down to me like a naughty 12 year old - given that honour i'll be more than happy to return the favour, amke it petty and sarcastic and i'll play like that too

:rolleyes:

This issue has been discussed and cleared several times already, once by Garry Walker a week ago, but it didn't stop you trying to poke fun at me just because I was sure I was right, and now by Tam.

Hopefully you can now put this whole charade to a rest.

[ioan]

A couple of 'interesting' comments from Badoer:



"My last race was 10 years ago more or less but I did in these 10 years close to 150,000kms with F1," he said.

"I am used to doing two races in one day because of the tests, sometimes we did two races in a day, so it is not that really I am worried for this aspect of the situation.

"I am used to the race as before I did a lot of races. If you think for somebody who had never raced maybe it is a problem but I know what it was in the past, so I have an idea.

"I am in a better position than somebody who didn't have a race, so at the moment I am very calm, very quiet."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77805

It looks like he needs to convince himself that he can do it.

[Saint Devote]

A couple of 'interesting' comments from Badoer:



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77805

It looks like he needs to convince himself that he can do it.

Not at all.

He was answering questions. This is the driver that Schumi would call at 2am in the morning to discuss tyre choices. He has trained with Schumi, who on Sunday will be in the pits to assist and advise Badoer.

I doubt this decision was made without Schumi's input and if he had any doubt he would not drive.

Any other consideration axiomatically would make Badoer dishonest.

Yesterday he called filling in for Massa as "like winning the lottery". Undoubtedly, if Badoer is able to get any sleep because of excitement that will be amazing.

[ioan]

The (not so) great Badoer props up the time sheets! :\
Looks like his try to talk himself up didn't have any effect.

[leopard]

BTW Old bean is not an insult to save confusion...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=old+bean
ok old chap... ;)

[truefan72]

well badoer looks rusty

[ioan]

well badoer looks rusty

To me he looks slow! :mad:

[ioan]

Considering he's tested this car on numerous ocassions, I am disappointed...

;)

[ioan]

Tongue in cheek :p

I know, I know! :)

Let's see:

10. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:43.384 +0.924 23
20. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:45.840 +3.380 25


Bad bad Badoer! :s

[christophulus]

We'll see how he goes this afternoon. At the moment he's probably still learning the track.. essentially I wouldn't read too much into this performance.

[F1boat]

I wish for Luca better pace in the next session...

[ioan]

We'll see how he goes this afternoon. At the moment he's probably still learning the track.. essentially I wouldn't read too much into this performance.

I wonder how much more knowledge of this track have Grosjean and Alguersuari who did better than Badoer.

[truefan72]

I thought he would do 40 laps in the morning session, he didn't even do the most laps out there, surprising to me.

[christophulus]

I wonder how much more knowledge of this track have Grosjean and Alguersuari who did better than Badoer.

Alguersuari won on the track in Spanish F3 last year, Grosjean raced there in the GP2 support last year...

I'm not making excuses for Badoer but first practice isn't always representative.

[Knock-on]

http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-news/mclaren-edge-out-ferrari-in-portimao/

That was Badoers last test for Ferrari, in an F2008 muletta to 2009 regulations.

So perhaps you don't look so smart now, cock?

What would be normal is that he drove the 2009 during development prior to the launch.

Of course, some people will argue that because it hasn't been launched, it isn't officially this years car but thats just argueing for the sake of it.

However, calling people a cock because they accept a drivers word rather than some forum member that is nothing to do with Ferrari is a bit childish whatever definition you choose to suit your stance.

[ioan]

What would be normal is that he drove the 2009 during development prior to the launch.

There was not test of the F60 before launch. Not even one news paper or new sites ever had a story let alone a picture of the before it was launched, and there are always videos and picture of even the smallest test done by Ferrari.

I will however accept, without hesitation, that he tested the F60 before launch if you can show us the proof of it.

[Knock-on]

There was not test of the F60 before launch. Not even one news paper or new sites ever had a story let alone a picture of the before it was launched, and there are always videos and picture of even the smallest test done by Ferrari.

I will however accept, without hesitation, that he tested the F60 before launch if you can show us the proof of it.

I don't really care. I see no reason for Luca to lie and if you do, then thats up to you.

[SGWilko]

I know, I know! :)

Let's see:

10. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:43.384 +0.924 23
20. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:45.840 +3.380 25


Bad bad Badoer! :s

At least he makes Kimi look quick. Perhaps there will be a crate of Vodka waiting for Luca as a gift come Monday morning....

[ioan]

I don't really care. I see no reason for Luca to lie and if you do, then thats up to you.

You delivered exactly what I expected. Hot air! :D

[ioan]

At least he makes Kimi look quick. Perhaps there will be a crate of Vodka waiting for Luca as a gift come Monday morning....

Maybe Kimi should make that a crate of Martini or Chianti! ;)

[SGWilko]

You delivered exactly what I expected. Hot air! :D

Knockie is working for Hot Air & Sons Ltd - est 1844???

Darn it, if they invest in balloons they would go up in the world.....

[ioan]

P2 gonna start in a couple of minutes.
Let's see what he can do now that he knows the track.

[SGWilko]

Chianti! ;)

And some Fava beans.............. :laugh:

[ioan]

Knockie is working for Hot Air & Sons Ltd - est 1844???

If he doesn't yet than he certainly should consider it, he's really performing well in that domain. :p

[ioan]

And some Fava beans.............. :laugh:

BTW, good to see you around again! :)

[woody2goody]

I wonder how much more knowledge of this track have Grosjean and Alguersuari who did better than Badoer.

Just stop it now. Give the guy a break.

Luca is slow but he hasn't really driven anything in anger for months.

Grosjean has been doing GP2 and Alguersuari, F. Renault and the last grand prix, so at least give Luca the benefit of a full race weekend before you judge him.

In Hungary Alguersuari was last in the first two practice sessions, and 18th in the third one when his team-mate was 5th. No real difference to what's happening to Luca today.

And most drivers at that level have probably driven the Hungaroring. Most drivers haven't driven Valencia.

[ioan]

Just stop it now. Give the guy a break.

:rotflmao:
He doesn't deserve any break, this is F1 not kindergarten or some pensioner house.

There is one good reason why he has been a test driver for almost 10 years: he's consistent, consistently slow that is! :p :

[BeansBeansBeans]

There's nothing like getting behind your team is there?

[ioan]

There's nothing like getting behind your team is there?

There's something like criticizing them when they puck it up like with this 'race' drive choice.
I'm not some blind fan who can't see when his favorite team does something stupid. :\

[BeansBeansBeans]

There's something like criticizing them when they puck it up like with this 'race' drive choice.

Criticising is one thing. Ridiculing a loyal and dedicated Ferrari employee quite another.

[ioan]

Criticising is one thing. Ridiculing a loyal and dedicated Ferrari employee quite another.

Well he's looking ridiculous being 3 seconds of the pace in a Ferrari.

[wedge]

Not a great start to Luca's weekend.

According James Allen, Ted Kravitz spotted Luca with a green paddock pass - no pit lane access!

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/ (twitter feed, right hand side of screen)

Kimi came from Formula Renault UK and yet he had to learn the the tracks could keep up with Heidfeld more or less in his rookie year.

No sympathy for Badoer whatsoever.

[ioan]

He finally managed to get within 2 seconds.

[Sonic]

Well one things for certain. MS could have gone faster than that.

Hope to gods he improves as that would just be a sham.

[christophulus]

Hmm, 2.6 seconds slower than Alonso, 1.3s off Raikkonen at the end of FP2.

[ioan]

Looks like only one Ferrari will make it through Q1.

[Dave B]

I hope Ferrari know what they're doing, as right now Luca just looks good old-fashioned slow. :s

[ArrowsFA1]

He's just a bit rusty :eek:

[christophulus]

Ironically he's picked up two separate speeding fines during practice :dozey:

[ClarkFan]

Ironically he's picked up two separate speeding fines during practice :dozey:
Well, he needs to take that onto the track! ;)

ClarkFan

[woody2goody]

Not a great start to Luca's weekend.

According James Allen, Ted Kravitz spotted Luca with a green paddock pass - no pit lane access!

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/ (twitter feed, right hand side of screen)

Kimi came from Formula Renault UK and yet he had to learn the the tracks could keep up with Heidfeld more or less in his rookie year.

No sympathy for Badoer whatsoever.

Hang on. Raikkonen had a whole winter to get up to speed with the Sauber. Luca's had 3 hours so far and he's already halved the gap to Kimi (who i might add was 1.3 seconds off the lead himself).

Slowly but surely he's dialling himself in. I think he'll make it through Q1 after a solid hour of practice in the morning.

Oh, Ioan, you should be ashamed of yourself. He's been with your team for a decade and you're running him into the ground, it's just not on.

[wedge]

Hang on. Raikkonen had a whole winter to get up to speed with the Sauber. Luca's had 3 hours so far and he's already halved the gap to Kimi (who i might add was 1.3 seconds off the lead himself).

And what about Jaime Algae-something? He did himself respectful in Hungary


Oh, Ioan, you should be ashamed of yourself. He's been with your team for a decade and you're running him into the ground, it's just not on.

No need for that Vietnam War mentality saying everything smells fine in the jungle, when in fact it isn't.

[52Paddy]

Disappointing performance but not at all hopeless.

[pino]

Practice don't mean anything, I am sure he will do a great job tomorrow :D

[F1boat]

I wish him well. As someone said, he is a loyal Ferrari worker and deserves sympathy at least.

[ClarkFan]

I wish him well. As someone said, he is a loyal Ferrari worker and deserves sympathy at least.
His struggles really do highlight a poor interface between the "no testing" regime and third drivers. How is a replacement driver to have a chance if they have hardly been in the car, or in the case of small teams, never been in the car at all? If Badoer were really as slow as he showed today, he would have been useless to Ferrari as a test driver - he would never have gotten the cars close enough to the limit to provide insight about their performance.

Just another argument for allowing testing at race sites, before or after the race weekend, with the 3rd drivers doing the testing. Teams would get real miles with new configurations and potential replacement drivers would get seat time.

ClarkFan

[jens]

As suspected, Badoer is struggling in a contemporary Formula One competition. Still can't see him making through Q1. But if he does, it would be quite a remarkable progress.

[Robinho]

:rolleyes:

This issue has been discussed and cleared several times already, once by Garry Walker a week ago, but it didn't stop you trying to poke fun at me just because I was sure I was right, and now by Tam.

Hopefully you can now put this whole charade to a rest.

i accept your apology.

no charade, i have accepted the info posted by Tamb with good grace. i'll discuss matters Ferrari with Garry and Tamb in the future seeing as they can be relied upon to discuss rather than just play for points scoring opportunities, even if they can get just as heated as anyone esle here

no fun poked - just a question you never answered - there is nothing more dangerous than 2 sides who know they are right ;) . my apologies for not reading every post on every thread looking for an answer someone else gave to a question.

thanks for fully reading my post and responding in the gracious manner i fully expect from you

[Robinho]

i am a bit surprised he is so slow - i didn't expect much, but maybe a little more than this - that said, new track for him (i assume), no time in a car in 2009, perhaps it was best to get through today learning the track and not binning it. if he fails to build up speed through tomoorw and the race then that is disappointing and perhaps Piquet or Bordais should have been given the chance - i have no doubt they'd be quicker on the friday, lets see if he can improve over the weekend.

everyone would be condemning him if he binned it and damaged the car and lost track time

[woody2goody]

And what about Jaime Algae-something? He did himself respectful in Hungary

Like I said before, Alguersuari was last, last and 18th in Hungary practice. Buemi was 19th, 10th and 12th or something like that.

Jaime did do well in Hungary, but what I'm saying is Luca has driven 3 hours in a racing car in about 6-8 months, and he's already halved the gap to his team-mate. Alguersuari has been racing all year so he should at least be up to some sort of speed straight away.

Luca has had to contend with learning the track, the car, and getting used to driving quickly again, which is probably what every driver has to do in winter testing. Even then they have only been out for a month or two.

[keysersoze]

I recall a couple of Ferrari drivers that didn't make it out of Q1. Who were they? Hmm, let me see, let me see . . . oh yeah, Felipe and Kimi.

Ole Luca ain't half bad only 1.3 off Kimi after one day.

[ioan]

Ironically he's picked up two separate speeding fines during practice :dozey:

According to Autosport he got 4 of them pit lane speeding fines!

[ioan]

Well, he needs to take that onto the track! ;)

ClarkFan

He was actually 7th fastest through the speed trap which means he is worryingly slow while cornering.
They showed a superposed comparison with Nakajima and it was obvious that Badoer was unable to carry enough speed through the corner. :\

[ioan]

i accept your apology.

First you'll have to wait for it.

[Sonic]

I'm still willing to offer him the benefit of the doubt after an improved FP2 session. He's now 1.3 off the pace and he is certainly not been given any extra miles (in fact he did two laps less than Kimi) so I'd hope to see him close to within 0.5-0.8 secs of Kimi by qualifying.

[christophulus]

I'm waiting til after the race to judge his performance. To be fair, it's a tall ask to be thrown in the car with no testing and expect him to be instantly on the pace. If he stays out of trouble and maybe sneaks a point or two he'll have done his job.

The car doesn't seem fast enough to be challenging for wins this weekend, and a level head and consistent performance will do just fine if the race gets a little chaotic (it's a street circuit so who knows!)

[woody2goody]

He was actually 7th fastest through the speed trap which means he is worryingly slow while cornering.
They showed a superposed comparison with Nakajima and it was obvious that Badoer was unable to carry enough speed through the corner. :\

In one corner on the approach to which Luca overcooked it. By the end he was noticeably quicker.

IMO Valencia is actually a difficult track to judge drivers' relative speed. It looked like everyone was going slowly today :p

[ioan]

In one corner on the approach to which Luca overcooked it. By the end he was noticeably quicker.

He pretty much overcooked every corner otherwise he wouldn't have lost on average one tenth per corner.

[truefan72]

I recall a couple of Ferrari drivers that didn't make it out of Q1. Who were they? Hmm, let me see, let me see . . . oh yeah, Felipe and Kimi.

Ole Luca ain't half bad only 1.3 off Kimi after one day.

i doubt they missed FP2 because of their driving ability.
Badoer on the other hand is miles away from his teammate.

[truefan72]

At least he makes Kimi look quick. Perhaps there will be a crate of Vodka waiting for Luca as a gift come Monday morning....

Kimi is quick,
quick enough to win the WCC
quick enough to challenge MSC until his cars failed him
quick enough to get 2nd in Hungary this year

out of all the criticism of Kimi this year, not being quick is not one of them

[truefan72]

I'm not some blind fan who can't see when his favorite team does something stupid. :\

POST OF THE CENTURY lol

[truefan72]

I do agree that we don't need to give Badoer a break. Ferrari made the decision to use him, although bourdais, NPJr, Liuzzi, Klien, Sato, Davidson, were available. All would have been miles faster than badoer.

It was Ferrari's decision to install him and thus should be judged accordingly.
F1 isn't a training ground or a developmental league. I am sorry that there is no in season testing, so judgments have to be made with that in mind. I believe it was slight arrogance by Ferrari about thee quality of their car to assume you could simply put in anyone and they would do the job. this isn't the same top car that salo stepped in for schumi. They needed to make a wise decision about that seat that might have produced a good result but chose poorly... both times.

[truefan72]

Ironically he's picked up two separate speeding fines during practice :dozey:

make that 4 , and was called in for a chat the 4th time

[truefan72]

Practice don't mean anything, I am sure he will do a great job tomorrow :D

wishful thinking pino

I predict he'll have an incident in Qualy, trying to push to hard and either overshooting the apex or a shunt. and then there';s the race with 19 other cars out there on a tight track with leaders 3 seconds a lap faster than you

[Saint Devote]

Those being harsh on Badoer are rushing to judgement.

Valencia is not a circuit to excercise finding the car's limits because there are walls everywhere. Badoer is having to learn a new circuit as well as the car and acclimatize himself to the pressure of a grand prix weekend - and it is a very different world to that of even 1999.

He was almost 2.5 sec slower than Raikonnen in Practice 1 and after Practice 2 was more than a second or so away from him.

Maybe things will click tomorrow and even if he does not get through Q3 maybe during the race he will begin to feel comfortable.

Remember he is not a new "future star" but a test driver standing in for an injured teammate. So don't judge him by the same measure.

It is good that he has Schumi in his pit, he is also well aware that his results are not great - and unfotunately there are many people around in f1 that are resentful he got the drive and will of course make jokes at Badoer's expense.

But with Schumi as his racing confidante and the support of Ferrari, who cares what ANYONE else thinks.

Badoer is the one chosen to be the Ferrari race driver and that is the sweetest thing of all!

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe Kimi should make that a crate of Martini or Chianti! ;)

KImi...........................Chianti????

Surely you jest. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

i doubt they missed FP2 because of their driving ability.
Badoer on the other hand is miles away from his teammate.

For goodness sake - give the guy a break. He's got Arthritis. :eek:

[ioan]

Kimi is quick,
quick enough to win the WCC
quick enough to challenge MSC until his cars failed him
quick enough to get 2nd in Hungary this year

out of all the criticism of Kimi this year, not being quick is not one of them

He probably can also walk on water (or is that vodka?)!
Have to love the fanboy comments, they are really funny stuff! :D

[ioan]

For goodness sake - give the guy a break. He's got Arthritis. :eek:

:laugh:
Good one! :up:

[Robinho]

First you'll have to wait for it.

:rolleyes:

huh, yeah, whatever, i thought i'd take a leaf from your book so i didn't really read your post, just assumed

[ioan]

:rolleyes:

huh, yeah, whatever, i thought i'd take a leaf from your book so i didn't really read your post, just assumed

Next time you should read before answering! :p :

[Robinho]

why? in my reality you've apologised, it doesn't matter one bit what you wrote

[Robinho]

back on topic - Luca admits he's not quick enough yet, but its going in the right direction and at least he kept it out of the wall.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77844

[ioan]

why? in my reality you've apologised, it doesn't matter one bit what you wrote

Maybe you'll tel us one day what you smoke!

[ioan]

FP3 done:



14. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:40.260 + 1.117
20. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:42.198 + 3.055

:\

[F1boat]

I think that Badoer will do well if he beats Jaime, the only driver he will be able possibly (but unlikely) to beat today IMO. But I think that the crimson car is simply not working here and for Kimi Q3 would be surprising as well, IMO.

[ioan]

I think that Badoer will do well if he beats Jaime, the only driver he will be able possibly (but unlikely) to beat today IMO. But I think that the crimson car is simply not working here and for Kimi Q3 would be surprising as well, IMO.

So, now it's the car that is bad not Badoer. Well he's still TWO seconds slower than Kimi.

[HenryM]

will they keep Badoer for the next races if he doesn't improve a lot in the next sessions?
in the 3 or 2 line comparison that they showed during the FPs it was clear how slow he was trough the corners... honestly I was expecting him to be a lot slower than KIMI, but not that much, in all 3 FPs... I was expecting more like 0.5s not 1s+

[Robinho]

FP3 done:



14. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:40.260 + 1.117
20. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:42.198 + 3.055

:\

:rolleyes:

not really representative given most of the session was red flagged - 26 minutes missing of the session, only 5 mins running at the end, hardly anyone had set anything note at the start of the session - mostly just installation laps as per normal 1st 10-15mins of a practice session.

qually should give us the best idea so far how far Luca really is behind the game - i don't expect much at all for Valencia, if he's still over a second behind Kimi at Spa and Monza then he'll be lucky to retain the reserve position until Massa returns

[Robinho]

Maybe you'll tel us one day what you smoke!

i don't smoke - i'm training for a half marathon so the 2 don't really go hand in hand, plus i'd like to live past 60 and still be able to walk up slight hills or stairs

[ioan]

:rolleyes:

not really representative given most of the session was red flagged

It was red flagged for everyone! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Anyway Ferrari's worst qualifying in the last who knows many years is going to happen today! :\

[Robinho]

It was red flagged for everyone! :rolleyes:
hence why it wasn't really representative - the times are pretty much meaningless due to the total lack of running. maybe a couple of people got a couple of clear laps at he end but everyones running was severely hampered

[Robinho]

well this year a couple of times a ferrari hasn't made it out of Q1, whilst the other hasn't done amazingly either.

i'll go out on a limb and same, combined, the Ferrari Qually won't be the worst even this year, even if Badoer is right at the back

[ioan]

There you have it!
Dead last and 1.5 seconds slower than 19th placed Alguersuari, a rookie with only one F1 race under his belt!
Not a surprise given that he is missing almost every apex by quite a few meters.
This driver choice is a disgrace for Ferrari. :mad:

[Robinho]

i said wait for qually, i waited, he was shocking, apparently he was 6 tenths up on his best lap on the last lap but screwed up the last corner, that still would have left him best part of a second off the back.

i maintain that Bourdais should be in that seat - he knows the tracks, he's managed by Todt Jnr, he's free, he's not piquet, what more could you want!

[BDunnell]

Well, that really was awful. But so what? No need to get worked up about it. It's one driver not doing well in qualifying for a motor race, not a massacre of children.

[ioan]

Well, that really was awful. But so what? No need to get worked up about it. It's one driver not doing well in qualifying for a motor race, not a massacre of children.

Only that we are not watching a Unesco charity show but a F1 race where every point in the constructors championship costs a team millions, millions that Badoer is obvioulsy not worth.