Alert !!! Intruders !!!

[A.F.F.]

As we noticed, Marcus wasn't too happy about Malcom icing the situation in Norway. He would have wanted to fight for the finish line and at the same time, gave an expression he could have catch Mikko. :) Now, could he really? Like Tomi said on another thread, he had plenty of time to do so didn't succeed.

Marcus have ruled the snow the same like Sebastien has ruled tarmac. It so happens that Mikko won Rally Norway and I don't think we have to wait too long for Sordo take his maiden win on tarmac. That's gotta be a tough bone for Marcus and Sebastien to swallow, noticing they are not unbeatable anymore :D

Big Boys have to start looking behind their shoulders. In a year or two, the young guns are really coming to sandbox.

[Donney]

And I'm very happy about that. The more people playing in the sandbox the better for the spectators.

Amazing rally from Hirvonen!!!! :up:

[sal]

With so few works teams it's nice that the no 2 drivers can take it to the team leaders (team orders excepted) hope to see Sordo beat Napoleon soon!

[Ranger]

With so few works teams it's nice that the no 2 drivers can take it to the team leaders (team orders excepted) hope to see Sordo beat Napoleon soon!

That'll be at least in August. ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

That'll be at least in August. ;)

ya never kno! ;)

suprized by mikko!

[Finni]

As we noticed, Marcus wasn't too happy about Malcom icing the situation in Norway. He would have wanted to fight for the finish line and at the same time, gave an expression he could have catch Mikko. :) Now, could he really? Like Tomi said on another thread, he had plenty of time to do so didn't succeed.

Do you remember rally of Japan? I would have given 30% chance to marcus to succeed in his hunting of Mikko if tried. In second day it was obviously difficult to take time away from Mikko as the stages overally get bit better after every pass.

Sordo is now driving so weakly that it's better not to fight against Seb and take risks as his status under pressure. This can mean that Seb will win every remaining asphalt event.

[Tomi]

That's gotta be a tough bone for Marcus and Sebastien to swallow, noticing they are not unbeatable anymore :D


It's the law of rally, there always comes some one faster, sooner or later :)
The good thing is that it was Mikko :)

[pino]

As much as I like and admire Marcus, I don't think he could've catched Mikko, and I am happy that none can prove I am wrong :p :

Good Job Mikko :up:

[[WRCRR]]

I wouldn't count Atkinson beating Petter out either in some rallies, especially if the new car is good...

All in all it is good that Seb and Marcus are starting to see some true competition, at least in the rallies that are new to all.

[N.O.T]

That win by Mikko indeed was a spark of hope for the competition...now all that remains is Subaru to produce a good car so peter can be in the equation again.

[Corny]

That'll be at least in August. ;)

No, it won't be.. You know how Citroën is ;)

[FrankenSchwinn]

aff, you sorta hit the balls with your foot, but i would venture in thinking that mikko was put there. think about it, marcus' contract is up this year and he costs a lot of money. malcolm does not want to say no to the guy, nor does he want to show ford that not resigning marcus in order to have mikko no1 driver would be inadequate in their thirst for wins. so, you start to work on mikko's car a bit better, lower marcus' car a little too much, but just enough to show that mikko is getting better, not that marcus is getting worse. little by little, throughout the year, mikko will chalenge marcus more and more and might even win another one or two. so that by september/october and marcus is knocking at the lawyers' door for another contract, he will be offered a 1/2 year contract with little raise and hirvonen will little by little become number one driver. i know that most of you think motorsports and their teams are fair between their drivers but that's not the case and it will not be the case with ford/marcus/mikko either. little by little mikko will get the better treatment and will become number one driver.

[Magnus]

FrankenSchwinn: it was some time since I so completely disagreed with a post as much as I do with yours! That was I thought at first anyway.

I agree with you that Mikko probably will be no. one next year, and that Marcus is at a point in his career where he is about to head downwards. but still: Marcus is one of the greatest rallydrivers ever, and Wilson is very glad to have him. Of course there will be no fuzz with the cars: it is impossible since the set up is decided by the drivers... if you know anything about rallycars and the engineering part, it is not too challenging to your mind to understand when things are not properly set up in your car.
Another thing: Bosse, I am sure, will not humiliate himself in anyway to get another drive.

Mikko is getting better and better, Bosse ought to go worse, due to his age. So if we se Mikko getting the better half more and more throughout the season it comes down to gaining experience on one side, and coming to age on the other, and nothing else.

As I have said before in this forum, Bosse will be remebered for being the only one able to keep up with Loeb. Not always, but often. That is a great achievement in itself.

What is fair? Economics... So your first priority as a team-boss is to supply your drivers with the best cars they can possibly get. It has nothing to do with fairness. The wallet talks, as always!

Last: you do not promote your new no. one driver by reducing the speed of your old one. So what do you do? You make shure that you have a no one driver from the start! Mikko has the qualities needed. He wont be helped at all by someone tampering with someone elses hard wear, that´s pure nonsence!

IMHO

[A.F.F.]

It's the law of rally, there always comes some one faster, sooner or later :)
The good thing is that it was Mikko :)


It's the lesson from Jedis. There's always a bigger fish :)

[bowler]

aff, you sorta hit the balls with your foot, but i would venture in thinking that mikko was put there. think about it, marcus' contract is up this year and he costs a lot of money. malcolm does not want to say no to the guy, nor does he want to show ford that not resigning marcus in order to have mikko no1 driver would be inadequate in their thirst for wins. so, you start to work on mikko's car a bit better, lower marcus' car a little too much, but just enough to show that mikko is getting better, not that marcus is getting worse. little by little, throughout the year, mikko will chalenge marcus more and more and might even win another one or two. so that by september/october and marcus is knocking at the lawyers' door for another contract, he will be offered a 1/2 year contract with little raise and hirvonen will little by little become number one driver. i know that most of you think motorsports and their teams are fair between their drivers but that's not the case and it will not be the case with ford/marcus/mikko either. little by little mikko will get the better treatment and will become number one driver.

Ah, the conspiracy theory!!

Interesting view, but a load of rubbish.

Marcus has so much more experience than Mikko, and that has a huge value.

There was a time when Marcus had little experience, and he fought his way to where he is now, as will Mikko.

Ford will be very happy to have a driver coming up behind Marcus, but they will be much happier to have Marcus.

[OTA]

I think that Miko won it fair and square. Marcus was indeed quite frustated about not being able to take any time on Miko in day 2. When he was asked in Eurosport why could't he catch Miko, he answer quite frustated that he couldn't. Then the jounalist asked for a reason and he said the reason was that he just couldn't.

Cheers
David

[FrankenSchwinn]

yeah, bowler and maganus, i serve the purpose of disagreeing with here on this forum. but do NOT put words in my posts. i never said that marcus was not appreciated or praised by M-Sport. i think that malcolm has the same type of respect for marcus that frequelin has for sainz, that is to say an admiration of the guy's skills etc.. what i am saying is that there is a business to run, these "conspiracy" crap things always come up when it's citroen or peugeot and i am starting to think that something is going to change in the next 18months at ford. oh and about marcus and his age, i'll quote indiana jones "it's not the years, it's the mileage"

[cyd]

If Mikko didn't win outright because of his own speed/ability, I really don't want to watch rallies anymore.

[jso1985]

Mikko kicked everyone's butt(Marcus included) on stage 1, if after it he had some "help" from Malcom Wilson,I don't think it matters much, He could have beat Marcus again on more stages.

[SanjayKumar]

We're getting closer to Mikko's first championship title!!! I think he'll get two or more victories this year and next year he'll be Champion!


Congratulations Mikko!!!

[Magnus]

It is an interesting subjuect anyway FrankenSchwinn: we will se what happens! BTW it is very boring when everyone have the same opinion, especially since the writer always tends to be very humble.
IMHO ;)

[Ranger]

We're getting closer to Mikko's first championship title!!! I think he'll get two or more victories this year and next year he'll be Champion!

Closer it may be... But do you see an end of Loeb's dominance in sight? ;)

[L5->R5/CR]

Closer it may be... But do you see an end of Loeb's dominance in sight? ;)



Loeb may continue to dominate but the C4 isn't the super duper world beating without breaking a sweat car that the Xsara became, at least it isn't right now. Loeb may actually have to fight for championships now...

[Corny]

Loeb may continue to dominate but the C4 isn't the super duper world beating without breaking a sweat car that the Xsara became, at least it isn't right now. Loeb may actually have to fight for championships now...

When Loeb loses a snow rally, doesn't mean he will have to fight harder for a championship

[Halvis]

When Loeb loses a snow rally, doesn't mean he will have to fight harder for a championship

We will see, but personally, I believe the C4 is not as good as the Xsara. I watched it at Rally Norway, and it was obvious that the drivers position is quite different than in Xsara. They sat so low and far from window that I'm sure it's much more difficult to see the road in front - that must have a negative impact on the driving. More difficult to see corners, rocks etc. - much easier to make mistakes, as Seb did twice in Norway.

But it's not sure, as I said, we'll see when we come to gravel!

[FrankenSchwinn]

but the xsara had been in development roughly since 99, these were brand new notes for a brand new rally. give the dynomite some time.....

i've liked mikko since day 1. he is the only driver for whom i bothered to sign up for his fan club. in 04, at the airport in helsinki, i was talking to what's his name from swrt about mikko. he said that despite the lack of results proper he is really fast and that i should not worry and that they have no reason not to sign him for 05. i think he can win any rally he enters but i think that it's only happening now because someone needs him to win. but he could have won all along.
and magnus, with what you wrote, you ought to be humble!

[janneppi]

We will see, but personally, I believe the C4 is not as good as the Xsara. I watched it at Rally Norway, and it was obvious that the drivers position is quite different than in Xsara. They sat so low and far from window that I'm sure it's much more difficult to see the road in front - that must have a negative impact on the driving. More difficult to see corners, rocks etc. - much easier to make mistakes, as Seb did twice in Norway.


You must have better eyes than me, i can't see Loeb sitting that much much lower, or further back in his C4 than Galli in Xsara, i'd almost say it's the opposite. :)
http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/photos/2007/norvege/diapo_210.jpg
http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/photos/2007/norvege/diapo_225.jpg

[Corny]

You must have better eyes than me, i can't see Loeb sitting that much much lower, or further back in his C4 than Galli in Xsara, i'd almost say it's the opposite. :)
http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/photos/2007/norvege/diapo_210.jpg
http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/photos/2007/norvege/diapo_225.jpg

Yeah, and Loeb almost can't be taller than Galli

[Finni]

When Loeb loses a snow rally, doesn't mean he will have to fight harder for a championship

Last year Ford was unprepared and the car was unreliable. This time it might be the C4 which is less reliable - at least Ford and Citroen should have equal footings in terms of reliability. This all hints that the championship fight will be much more closer than last year. Obviously Seb is still strong favourite.

I think that there is slight tendency to underestimate C4. It's true that C4 was slow on some stages in Norway but it has said that its weakness was manifested only in slippy conditions. It remains to see if such "bad stages" are common tendency or only occasional feauture - closely related to rarely slippery snow stages of Norway.

I really hope that C4 will not be perfectly handling car because Citroen has (as also other PSA marque Peugeot had ) traditional engine-advantage compared to Ford and Subaru.

[Corny]

Last year Ford was unprepared and the car was unreliable. This time it might be the C4 which is less reliable - at least Ford and Citroen should have equal footings in terms of reliability. This all hints that the championship fight will be much more closer than last year. Obviously Seb is still strong favourite.

I think that there is slight tendency to underestimate C4. It's true that C4 was slow on some stages in Norway but it has said that its weakness was manifested only in slippy conditions. It remains to see if such "bad stages" are common tendency or only occasional feauture - closely related to rarely slippery snow stages of Norway.

I really hope that C4 will not be perfectly handling car because Citroen has (as also other PSA marque Peugeot had ) traditional engine-advantage compared to Ford and Subaru.

Even with problems Loeb could almost match the speed of Hirvonen and Grönholm.. (on snow!)

So don't even think of a drivers title for Marcus/Mikko

[Halvis]

You must have better eyes than me, i can't see Loeb sitting that much much lower, or further back in his C4 than Galli in Xsara, i'd almost say it's the opposite. :)
http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/photos/2007/norvege/diapo_210.jpg
http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/photos/2007/norvege/diapo_225.jpg

Hmmm, looks like you're right. I just remember I noticed that it looked like Loeb must have problems with view...

I stand corrected.

[janneppi]

Yeah, and Loeb almost can't be taller than Galli
No, he can't, because according to their fansites, they are both the same height.
http://www.gigigalli.com/gigi_gb.htm
http://www.sebastienloeb.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=20&Itemid=43

[Tomi]

Even with problems Loeb could almost match the speed of Hirvonen and Grönholm.. (on snow!)

what problems did he have?

[Corny]

what problems did he have?

He said something about diff settings..

[White Sauron]

He said something about diff settings..

C'mon, mate, it's not a problem, it's his mistake.

[amberie]

He said something about diff settings..

On stage 1, he did say his pacenotes were "too fast," so he couldn't approach the corners with any confidence. That would definitely slow down his pace for the entire rally.

I'm rather excited about having Mikko, Atko and Sordo rising to the level of the "Big Three." People won't have to complain for much longer of not having enough competition at the top!

[White Sauron]

On stage 1, he did say his pacenotes were "too fast," so he couldn't approach the corners with any confidence. That would definitely slow down his pace for the entire rally.

I'm rather excited about having Mikko, Atko and Sordo rising to the level of the "Big Three." People won't have to complain for much longer of not having enough competition at the top!

Loeb: "Maailmanmestaruudesta tulee kuuma kamppailu - ja se on vain hyvä, Loeb kirjoittaa."

Even Loeb claims the fight will be much tougher this year, and he likes it!!

[A.F.F.]

It is an interesting subjuect anyway FrankenSchwinn: we will se what happens! BTW it is very boring when everyone have the same opinion, especially since the writer always tends to be very humble.
IMHO ;)

Are you referring me or everyone ?

[Magnus]

AFF: I am refering to everyone, not least myself :)

Mikko is the only one who did not complain during the Norwegian Rally, but that is natural... Bosse on his hand said it was very stupid to come from fast Sweden and try to write slow notes.

Everyone has had problems in some way or another, and thus their speed was somewhat hindered, of course this goes for Loeb aswell! We can always have discussions like, if he hadn´t had that and that and the moose, and the mousse, and the wind, and the diff and the co-driver, and the intercom, and the ride-height, and the studs, and the studs and the studs, and the heating, and the windscreen, and the lights, and the engine, and the seat, and tha gagagagaga...

That is the way it is. But someone has to win: it is the one who drives the rally the quickest. Loeb did not win: he went of. He is a brilliant driver, probably the best we have today, but he did not win Norway, because, at that point, he did not have what it takes.

[WRC2006]

Above of everything you people are saying, remember that Loeb is human and only stupid or idiot are the people who never make mistake.

This is happened to him and it should teach him something or help him to sort out any problem. And I think what happened it is normal as the C4 is a new car, so they have to test the car in real conditions of a rally and see where the car is not performing. Maybe we have to wait for the gravel rallies and see what the C4 is capable or not.

[Corny]

Even Loeb claims the fight will be much tougher this year, and he likes it!!

He said exactly the same about 2006!

[amberie]

He said exactly the same about 2006!

But the shoe's on the other foot now. In 2006, Marcus won Monte but had problems with the new car.
Now, Loeb's coming from behind with a new car that hasn't proven its speed or reliability on gravel yet.
Seb has six points to make up in the championship. If he and Marcus keep finishing in the top 2, it would take Seb three rally wins over Marcus in 2nd, just to tie with him. It will be a closer fight, at least for the first half of the season.

[A.F.F.]

Marcus needs those six points ahead when they arrive on tarmac, please remember that. Pressure can be easily other way around.

[Finni]

By the way there are rumours that Marcus' and Malcolm's relationship is getting cold:

"MSa :s sa toimittajat Nieborg ja Kuhn epäilivät Grönholmin ja Malcolm Wilsonin välillä vallitsevan jääkauden tuskin lämpiävän Norjan rallin lopputapahtumien vuoksi. Välien viileneminen johtaa kuulemma PR-tehtäviin. Toimittajien mielestä tilanne ei ole hyvä sopimuksen pidentämiseen tämän kauden jatkeeksi. Mahdolliseen uran päättymiseen Grönholm ei kommentoi, Wilson sanoi että "Katsotaan, myös Hirvosella on ainekset mestariksi.""

I have no time for translation..

[Halvis]

By the way there are rumours that Marcus' and Malcolm's relationship is getting cold:

"MSa :s sa toimittajat Nieborg ja Kuhn epäilivät Grönholmin ja Malcolm Wilsonin välillä vallitsevan jääkauden tuskin lämpiävän Norjan rallin lopputapahtumien vuoksi. Välien viileneminen johtaa kuulemma PR-tehtäviin. Toimittajien mielestä tilanne ei ole hyvä sopimuksen pidentämiseen tämän kauden jatkeeksi. Mahdolliseen uran päättymiseen Grönholm ei kommentoi, Wilson sanoi että "Katsotaan, myös Hirvosella on ainekset mestariksi.""

I have no time for translation..

Some other that can translate...?

[A.F.F.]

By the way there are rumours that Marcus' and Malcolm's relationship is getting cold:

"MSa :s sa toimittajat Nieborg ja Kuhn epäilivät Grönholmin ja Malcolm Wilsonin välillä vallitsevan jääkauden tuskin lämpiävän Norjan rallin lopputapahtumien vuoksi. Välien viileneminen johtaa kuulemma PR-tehtäviin. Toimittajien mielestä tilanne ei ole hyvä sopimuksen pidentämiseen tämän kauden jatkeeksi. Mahdolliseen uran päättymiseen Grönholm ei kommentoi, Wilson sanoi että "Katsotaan, myös Hirvosella on ainekset mestariksi.""

I have no time for translation..

I take the liberty.

The reporters Nieborg and Kuhn suspected the relationship between Grönholm and Wilson is hardly going to get warmer due what happened in Norway. The reason for why relationship has gotten colder is because of PR-assigments. The reporters think the situation is not good for extending Grönholm's contract after this season. Grönholm won't comment his possible retirement, Wilson said;" Let's see, Hirvonen also has good chances to get the championship."

[White Sauron]

By the way there are rumours that Marcus' and Malcolm's relationship is getting cold:

"MSa :s sa toimittajat Nieborg ja Kuhn epäilivät Grönholmin ja Malcolm Wilsonin välillä vallitsevan jääkauden tuskin lämpiävän Norjan rallin lopputapahtumien vuoksi. Välien viileneminen johtaa kuulemma PR-tehtäviin. Toimittajien mielestä tilanne ei ole hyvä sopimuksen pidentämiseen tämän kauden jatkeeksi. Mahdolliseen uran päättymiseen Grönholm ei kommentoi, Wilson sanoi että "Katsotaan, myös Hirvosella on ainekset mestariksi.""

I have no time for translation..

Where can I find the whole article in finnish?

[Magnus]

Where can I find the whole article in English? ;)

[White Sauron]

Where can I find the whole article in English? ;)
Give me the article in finnish, and I'll translate it into english ; )

[Scooby555]

And I think what happened it is normal as the C4 is a new car, so they have to test the car in real conditions of a rally and see where the car is not performing.

Why do most people believe that the C4 is a new car? This car has been extensively tested for the last 18 months, and just because it hasn't been used on the WRC before the Monte means nothing!!!!

Mikko deserved to win, from what I saw in Norway, he was the best driver in the conditions he faced on the Friday and Saturday. Should Loeb not have had the problems he had on Saturday everything could have been a lot different, as both Ford's would have been expected to be driven at 100% to beat him. With Loeb's problems it took the heat of Marcus and Mikko, and it was far more important for the team to get both cars to the finish line in 1st and 2nd place, so why expect team mates to battle it out as they had everything to lose by doing this.

I also don't believe that Marcus is thought any lesser by the Ford team as he has given everything to the team, not only in his driving, but in the development of the Focus, and I look forward to him still being in the team and No1 driver in 2008 :) It's up to Mikko to win his place as No1 driver and not for Marcus to give up the position without a fight........

Rob

[White Sauron]

Why do most people believe that the C4 is a new car? This car has been extensively tested for the last 18 months, and just because it hasn't been used on the WRC before the Monte means nothing!!!!

Mikko deserved to win, from what I saw in Norway, he was the best driver in the conditions he faced on the Friday and Saturday. Should Loeb not have had the problems he had on Saturday everything could have been a lot different, as both Ford's would have been expected to be driven at 100% to beat him. With Loeb's problems it took the heat of Marcus and Mikko, and it was far more important for the team to get both cars to the finish line in 1st and 2nd place, so why expect team mates to battle it out as they had everything to lose by doing this.

I also don't believe that Marcus is thought any lesser by the Ford team as he has given everything to the team, not only in his driving, but in the development of the Focus, and I look forward to him still being in the team and No1 driver in 2008 :) It's up to Mikko to win his place as No1 driver and not for Marcus to give up the position without a fight........

Rob


What problems??? Loeb had no problems! That were his own mistakes! Either in driving or in set-ups, but not problems!

[Finni]

Where can I find the whole article in finnish?

There is no any finnish article. My quote is from finnish discussion forum and it refers to something called AMS with non-finn reporters.

[White Sauron]

There is no any finnish article. My quote is from finnish discussion forum and it refers to something called AMS with non-finn reporters.

Ah, ok, thanks anyway!))