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Wade91
1st August 2009, 18:54
More stars for the American flag?
AOL Latino Noticias,
Posted: 2009-07-31 17:34:54
Filed Under: Latino News in English
NEW YORK. - Can you imagine the U.S. flag with 51 stars? 52? 64? We might need to start planning for a new national symbol if Congress passes legislation that could lead to a change in the political status of Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory.

H.R. 2499, a.k.a. the Puerto Rico Democracy Act of 2009, proposes a vote in Congress to authorize a referendum on the island's status. If Congress passes H.R. 2499, the government of Puerto Rico will be authorized to conduct a plebiscite giving voters two options:

1) Puerto Rico should maintain its present form of political status, as an associated commonwealth

2) Puerto Rico should have a different status.

Voters would choose between keeping the island's commonwealth status, adopted in 1952, or to opt for something different.

In the latter case, a second plebiscite would let them decide whether they wanted statehood, independence or independence with a loose association to the United States. Although technically a non-binding plebiscite, the U.S. Congress could then choose to ratify the results by voting to enact the decision made by Puerto Rico.

Strong opposition

Two of the island's main parties oppose the proposal, and a similar bill that was brought to Congress in October 2007 has since died. While this bid marks the 68th time that the Congress has debated Puerto Rico's status and during previous referendums in 1967, 1993 and 1998, Puerto Ricans voted to maintain the current island's status and rejected statehood, there is a sense among some political elite, that this year could be different.

Pedro Pierluisi, Puerto Rico's resident commissioner in Washington and a leader in the pro-statehood movement is spearheading the effort in Congress in the belief that a new political status is needed for Puerto Rico to regain momentum in the wake of a recession that has entered its fifth year.

His party, the New Progressive Party (NPP), expects that free of the status quo, Puerto Ricans will vote for statehood as the best possible option and opportunity for prosperity. If successful in the plebiscite and if Congress were to subsequently agree and vote to admit Puerto Rico into the United States as a fully pledged state, Puerto Rico would earn two Senate seats and at least six seats in the House of Representatives.

Again and once more...

But if this issue has been debated so many times before, why does it come up again and again?

Despite pressing economic issues, ineffectual governance, crisis in public education, rising crime and more, the question of status continues to haunt Puerto Rico.

Consider that the 3.9 million people that live in this small island, 110 miles long and 40 miles wide, experience a curious case of socio-poli-cultural limbo that is marked by citizenship limitations, questions about cultural identity and self-determination, and the notion of country. Until these are answered, perhaps nothing else can be.

Citizens without a vote

Born into U.S. citizenship, residents of Puerto Rico are barred from voting in U.S. presidential elections unless they are living in the continental U.S. The island does have Congressional representation, yet the representative cannot vote on legislation and a Puerto Rico born U.S. citizen, cannot run for President.

Puerto Ricans who live on the island do not pay federal income tax on income earned in Puerto Rico, but do pay local taxes and do pay federal income tax on income earned in the United States, such as capital gains.

Nevertheless, Puerto Ricans have been active and widely recognized for their contributions and sacrifices across all branches of the U.S. military, including currently serving in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

War and peace

In addition, the island has the largest concentration of U.S. military bases in Latin America, serving strategic interests for all branches of the armed services and was in the crosshairs of nuclear annihilation during the Cold War when U.S. bases on the island hosted advanced weapons, systems and personnel.

As a U.S. territory, the U.S. reserves control of various key areas of government, including interstate trade, foreign relations, trade and commerce, customs, airspace and maritime affairs, immigration and emigration, currency and monetary policy, and much more.

The local government controls internal affairs that are not dictated by U.S. federal law, and is led by a freely elected Governor and the Puerto Rican Legislature.

The rule of law

The U.S. Constitution and federal law are applicable to Puerto Rico. However, local law is rooted in the Napoleonic code used by colonial Spain when it controlled the island for hundreds of years and until the late 19th century when the U.S. gained possession of the island following the Spanish-American War.

The current government on the island is headed by the New Progressive Party (NPP), a pro-statehood party which supports the status plebiscite which could lead to Puerto Rico's formal request to be admitted into the Union, adding a new star to the American flag.

For Puerto Ricans, this would mean that their citizenship would become irrevocable, that they can vote for President of the U.S., can participate in national decision making and qualify for greater amounts of federal funds to support local budgets. However, they would also start paying federal taxes and would lose certain tax code benefits used to attract U.S. and foreign firms to operate on the island.

The defense of the status quo

But in Puerto Rico, the passion for life, music and politics run high, and the Popular Democratic Party (PDP), the current opposition party which created the associated commonwealth in the 1950's, staunchly defends the current political status of the island and its relations with the United States.

The PDP is a study in contrasts. Clearly supportive of the notion of a distinct cultural identity for Puerto Ricans, they negotiated the associated commonwealth with the United States, protecting against total assimilation while aligning the island's interests with those of the mainland.

This relationship was remarkably successful as Puerto Rico modernized rapidly in the latter half of the 20th century, enjoying the highest per capita income and quality of life among Caribbean nations.

Independence and PDP

As such, the PDP opposes the possible plebiscite as it could lead to the undoing of what it deems has been a very successful and mutually beneficial marriage between the U.S. and Puerto Rico.

What Puerto Rico has gained in terms of progress, wealth and security are equal to what the island has provided to the U.S. in terms of military service, consumption of U.S. companies' goods and services, and unwavering support for democracy and the American Dream.

A more extreme position, however, is held by the Independence Party of Puerto Rico, which advocates complete political separation from the U.S., regaining control over all aspects of the island's internal and external affairs.

However, as they have historically attracted less than 10% of the votes, the Independence party is not in a position to see it's dream turn real and so also oppose the motion before Congress to authorize a plebiscite.

But should status quo be rejected and Puerto Ricans be asked to select a preferred status, there are many who believe that followers of the PDP could follow their cultural conscience and side with independence.

Others believe that when faced with the decision, many - including pro-independence voters - would find U.S. citizenship too hard to leave behind and would reject independence in favor of a solution that guarantees continuation of U.S.
citizenship.

A 52nd star?

The latest scuttlebutt is that Congress seems favorable to approving H.R. 2499, authorizing the initial plebiscite.

There is some debate on whether the outcome of the plebiscite would be binding or not, but the issue remains.

The discussion of independence, free association or statehood is resonating within the other 12 territories that the United States has around the world, and also in Washington D.C. where the residents of the capital of the United States have been fighting for to have their voices heard in Congress for decades.

With all this activity, is it so crazy to think that the U.S. flag might be adding a star or
two in the coming years?

i wonder how many people will move from Puerto Rico to the lower 48 (or did 48 in that case) becouse it would just be a metter of moving to a diffront state then

http://noticias.aol.com/articulos/latin ... 1509990001 (http://noticias.aol.com/articulos/latino-news/_a/puerto-rico-statehood/20090731091509990001?icid=main|main|dl5|link3|http %3A%2F%2Fnoticias.aol.com%2Farticulos%2Flatino-news%2F_a%2Fpuerto-rico-statehood%2F20090731091509990001)

Roamy
1st August 2009, 18:58
I think PR always votes the statehood proposal down. I don't expect it to happen.

Mark in Oshawa
1st August 2009, 19:42
Fousto, economically they would have everything to gain, and I think if I read between the tea leaves in that article, that that may change.

I think they would be better off as a state than on their own as a country, but right now they are in a limbo that is just making no sense to me. Either you an American with all the benefits that come with it, or go your own way. Right now...not sure what they gain by being a protectorate. Guam is another island with similar status. I don't forsee two more stars but it COULD happen. Economic misery will create change, and god knows we have that now adays. Give Obama another 3 years and their could be more misery.

Then again, maybe after this administration, they may not want anything to do with you guys....

Wade91
1st August 2009, 19:50
i think Puerto Rico should eaither be a state or its own country, it shouldn't just be "US teratory" :s

markabilly
1st August 2009, 19:55
I thought it was going to be ethopia, so bama could defeat those claims against him about not being "native born"

Mark in Oshawa
1st August 2009, 20:55
I thought it was going to be ethopia, so bama could defeat those claims against him about not being "native born"

I suppose those birth notices of his birth in the Honolulu paper when he was born were just a clever plot by some evil left wing consipracy knowing that 50 odd years later, this dude was going to be the first black president?

Mark in Oshawa
1st August 2009, 20:56
i think Puerto Rico should eaither be a state or its own country, it shouldn't just be "US teratory" :s

Some day, you will finally realize your horrible typing/spelling skills are making you sound like an idiot. Heck, you make sense on this one and I still cant get past the typo's.....

markabilly
1st August 2009, 20:59
i think Puerto Rico should eaither be a state or its own country, it shouldn't just be "US teratory" :s
hey wade, stick around, finally a good ole boy from tennseeeee, who types wrose than me

markabilly
1st August 2009, 21:00
I suppose those birth notices of his birth in the Honolulu paper when he was born were just a clever plot by some evil left wing consipracy knowing that 50 odd years later, this dude was going to be the first black president?
Foolish me, i thought it was by FBI

Wade91
1st August 2009, 22:10
Some day, you will finally realize your horrible typing/spelling skills are making you sound like an idiot. Heck, you make sense on this one and I still cant get past the typo's.....
i recently got the results from my homeschooling acadamy for my last test and i scored very low in spelling, but whatever i dont care, i never study for tests nor do i study any other time, and as i've menioned a couple of times i'm to lazy to use spellcheck :p

Easy Drifter
2nd August 2009, 05:22
And as I and several others have mentioned with your lack of skills and 'I don't give a s---' attitude you will be lucky to get a job sweeping the floor at a fast food joint.
If you are ever accepted into a college or university they have to have standards so low that any grad would be laughed at.

chuck34
2nd August 2009, 21:34
I thought it was going to be ethopia, so bama could defeat those claims against him about not being "native born"

Wouldn't that be Kenya? Not that I'm a "birther" or anything. Those people are nuts!

Camelopard
2nd August 2009, 22:10
And as I and several others have mentioned with your lack of skills and 'I don't give a s---' attitude you will be lucky to get a job sweeping the floor at a fast food joint.
If you are ever accepted into a college or university they have to have standards so low that any grad would be laughed at.

Yay, go Wade, let's get these cantankerous old fogies complaining about your spelling and grammar once again. Obviously they don't have enough things to occupy their time. :)

Wade seems to be in good company with millionares like Jeffery Archer: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-19160124.html

There are lot's of people out there that can't spell (vop!), but to be quite honest, these days I don't think that it's that important, just like mental arithmetic, remember that?

Common sense to me is a far more important character trait. Besides, isn't being allowed to fail considered a personal freedom in the US? :)

tmx
2nd August 2009, 23:26
Some day, you will finally realize your horrible typing/spelling skills are making you sound like an idiot. Heck, you make sense on this one and I still cant get past the typo's..... I need this kind of guts and tell off some annoying people in the rally forum.

Rollo
3rd August 2009, 00:58
The way I see it, there are seven territories that are possible candidates for statehood:

Guam: pop 178,000
Puerto Rico: pop 3 million
US Virgin Islands: pop 108,000
American Samoa: pop 65,000
Northern Mariana: pop 86,000
District of Columbia: pop 591,000
State of Lincoln: pop 524,000

Of these three would be the most likely being Puerto Rico, District of Columbia and Lincoln. Lincoln is an odd proposal which would involve mashing part of Washington State and the Idaho Panhandle together. D.C residents have argued on the odd occasion the they aren't represented in the Congress, and that their "state's" struggle is similar to what started the American Revolution, ie Taxation Without Representation.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/Dclicenseplate.jpg/150px-Dclicenseplate.jpg

Puerto Rico as it stands is an unincorporated territory, and maintains its own separate taxation system. Whether or not it would want to be completely subject to Washington is a matter of debate.
From what I can gather and depending on which news source you choose, a push for statehood would probably be defeated, because although the group pushing for statehood is quite vocal, there doesn't seem to be even enough impetus to cause a referendum.

anthonyvop
3rd August 2009, 03:34
Residents of Puerto Rico pay no Federal Income Tax.
Over 50% of PR residents receive some for of government aid.

Do the math.

Rollo
3rd August 2009, 04:07
Residents of Puerto Rico pay no Federal Income Tax.
Over 50% of PR residents receive some for of government aid.

Do the math.

Mr Vop for argument's sake if you were the President of the USA, if the people of Puerto Rico voted to become an independent Republic, would you cut it loose? If not, why not?
Should the people have a right to self-determination?

Wade91
3rd August 2009, 23:43
Yay, go Wade, let's get these cantankerous old fogies complaining about your spelling and grammar once again. Obviously they don't have enough things to occupy their time. :)

Wade seems to be in good company with millionares like Jeffery Archer: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-19160124.html

There are lot's of people out there that can't spell (vop!), but to be quite honest, these days I don't think that it's that important, just like mental arithmetic, remember that?

Common sense to me is a far more important character trait. Besides, isn't being allowed to fail considered a personal freedom in the US? :)
yeah, thats the way i see it, i dont see where spelling spelling really matters as long as you make your point clear

Drew
3rd August 2009, 23:51
Heck, you make sense on this one and I still cant get past the typo's.....

No apostrophe on typos :p : Isn't wade just a kid anyways?

Could Puerto Rico be easily accepted into the union? As we hear there are problems with enlargement of the EU without the treaty of Lisbon being ratified.

Rollo
4th August 2009, 01:09
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
- Article Four, Section 3, Clause 1 of the US Constitution.

There is provision to admit states to the Union but the constitution itself doesn't have either any provisions for states leaving or even addresses the issue. Texas V White (1869) provides in judicial precedent that in theory states leaving the Union is illegal.

Of course for such a thing to happen as in the Case of Puerto Rico, DC or even the state of Lincoln, it would probably require a referendum of the people concerned, and of the rest of the Union to admit them, though again the constitution never addresses it.

It's interesting in the case of California (which was Mexican, then a Republic for 25 days) that it's push for statehood came really very quickly. After being won in the US-Mexican war of 1848, it then wrote its own constitution and then demanded to be part of the Union, which it promptly got on Sep 9, 1850.
Utah Territory on the other hand wasn't admitted for statehood for ages and ages on the basis that it was both Mormon and polygamous. Utah took 46 years before it was finally made a state.

If Puerto Rico were to become a state, it would seem reasonable to have a referendum of the issue in the rest of the 50 states, despite none of them being admitted with that process themselves. If Puerto Rico voted to become a state then its admission without consultation of the American people would be highly controversial, as no doubt the more vocal members of this forum would very easily point out.

anthonyvop
4th August 2009, 02:40
Mr Vop for argument's sake if you were the President of the USA, if the people of Puerto Rico voted to become an independent Republic, would you cut it loose? If not, why not?
Should the people have a right to self-determination?
I would drop them like a bad habit but it ain't gonna happen. The pro-indi people on the island only make up about 10-15%. I know people who are active in the Pro-independence movement there. their argument that if the US granted their wish they would get even more of my Tax dollars in Aid

If they were to ask for independence I would grant it on one condition though.....No foreign aid. No hand-out for uncle same.

Mark in Oshawa
4th August 2009, 14:56
Yay, go Wade, let's get these cantankerous old fogies complaining about your spelling and grammar once again. Obviously they don't have enough things to occupy their time. :)

Wade seems to be in good company with millionares like Jeffery Archer: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-19160124.html

There are lot's of people out there that can't spell (vop!), but to be quite honest, these days I don't think that it's that important, just like mental arithmetic, remember that?

Common sense to me is a far more important character trait. Besides, isn't being allowed to fail considered a personal freedom in the US? :)

Camel, YOU spell properly for the most part. So obviously it matters to YOU.

Wade has on occasion said some clever stuff, so I know there is a brain in there somewhere, but it just irritates the heck out of me trying to figure what he is saying through all the typo's.

What Wade hasn't figured out yet is you LOOK stupid when you cant spell. It would be rude like spitting when you speak. The thoughts get lost in the laziness.

AS for Jeffrey Archer, if he cant spell, at least his editor can.

Jag_Warrior
6th August 2009, 00:30
You guys don't seriously think that Wade91 is who (what) he claims to be, do you?

That dude is so far undercover that even he doesn't know who he is some days. He might even be The Stig... I'm not sure. But he ain't foolin' me. :p :