MSC to return for ferrari Official

[555-04Q2]

All the current fuss around MS's return to F1 just shows how invaluable he was and still is to the F1 world. His return is saving the face of F1 this season, which has been an absolute embarrasment.

Look out kids...the greatest is back :up:

[race_director]

the Lion is back roaring and very hungry this time

so his prey have to run for cover. other wise on sunday night at velamcia he might be having grilled button/webber/vettel/rubens. for dinner :)

[leopard]

Alguersuari will not be afraid of it. Old lion doesn't endanger anyone.. :)

[ShiftingGears]

he rolled the car

He drove brilliantly in what was his third rally. He was third in his class.

[Knock-on]

I have no problem with Schumacher having a limited test in the car. In truth, hardly anyone out there knows as much about driving F1 cars but I'm sure most people out there are looking forward to seeing him back. It would be nice to see him come back at the very top against the current hot shots with no excuses.

I do understand those who say why should he get preferential treatment over Jamie? Jamie had no experience in a F1 car (apart from a straight line test), is young and experienced. I would have thought the other teams would have insisted he have a couple of hours test for safety reasons but they didn't.

Similarly, I understand the point that Ferrari have 2 drivers that have experience driving that car that could very easily have taken the seat but they didn't because they know Schumy would do a better job.

However, this IS Schumy and rightly or wrongly, he is a little bit special and demands more gravitas than a rookie.

Let him have his test and lets see MS in a very quick car with no excuses. If he goes out there and dominates the field and his team mate, I will respect that.

If he gets beaten, then it's the first time he will have raced for many years on an even footing and his fans will have to accept that.

Personally, I think he will be quicker than Kimi but will struggle against Lewis and Alonso.

[Mark]

Schu to win the race, at 40? I'm not sure he is a miracle worker.... :D

One thing I noticed that he was "testing" earlier in the week. Isn't that practice banned?

He was testing a two year old car. As I understand it, it is only development testing which is banned. Driving a two year old car is useless from a technological development standpoint. But it's still an F1 car so it's vital practice.

[Big Ben]

I have no problem with Schumacher having a limited test in the car. In truth, hardly anyone out there knows as much about driving F1 cars but I'm sure most people out there are looking forward to seeing him back. It would be nice to see him come back at the very top against the current hot shots with no excuses.

I do understand those who say why should he get preferential treatment over Jamie? Jamie had no experience in a F1 car (apart from a straight line test), is young and experienced. I would have thought the other teams would have insisted he have a couple of hours test for safety reasons but they didn't.

Similarly, I understand the point that Ferrari have 2 drivers that have experience driving that car that could very easily have taken the seat but they didn't because they know Schumy would do a better job.

However, this IS Schumy and rightly or wrongly, he is a little bit special and demands more gravitas than a rookie.

Let him have his test and lets see MS in a very quick car with no excuses. If he goes out there and dominates the field and his team mate, I will respect that.

If he gets beaten, then it's the first time he will have raced for many years on an even footing and his fans will have to accept that.

Personally, I think he will be quicker than Kimi but will struggle against Lewis and Alonso.

IMO Jaime was more entitled to an exception that MS. I'm totally against him getting special treatment.

[Big Ben]

the Lion is back roaring and very hungry this time

so his prey have to run for cover. other wise on sunday night at velamcia he might be having grilled button/webber/vettel/rubens. for dinner :)

I don't know about the brawnies but the red bulls will run too fast for your cat.

[ioan]

IMO Jaime was more entitled to an exception that MS. I'm totally against him getting special treatment.

A very hypocritical stance.
Why would one of them be more entitled than the other? Anything to do with you hating MS?! :p

[pino]

Welcome back Michael :up:

[ioan]

I don't know about the brawnies but the red bulls will run too fast for your cat.

Not sure about cats but the cavallino might prove to be faster than the bulls!
Why not wait and see before making predictions. ;)

[Big Ben]

Not sure about cats but the cavallino might prove to be faster than the bulls!
Why not wait and see before making predictions. ;)

It wouldn't be much of a prediction if I make it after ;)

[ioan]

It wouldn't be much of a prediction if I make it after ;)

That's true, but you did not express a possibility but a certainty! :)

[Bagwan]

You've seen Kimi interviewed numerous times, I'm sure. Do you really think he likes attention? The answers is no, if he could decide he would just drive and go home. He really doesn't care what anybody else does, thinks or speculates etc.

No . He doesn't like attention .

The point is , that , firstly , He will get a pile of it . He will be asked a zillion stupid questions about driving beside Michael . He'll hate that .

And , he'll hate that his team will be so distracted by Michael's presence as well .

How will Kimi cope with all this agro ?
I would suggest that the only way to take the shine off Michael , and focus the team , will be to be fast and focussed , himself .

[Ranger]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77534

Schumacher won't test the F60.

Harsh but fair, I suppose.

[ShiftingGears]

No . He doesn't like attention .

The point is , that , firstly , He will get a pile of it . He will be asked a zillion stupid questions about driving beside Michael . He'll hate that .

And , he'll hate that his team will be so distracted by Michael's presence as well .


I don't think he cares at all, to be honest.

[Big Ben]

A very hypocritical stance.
Why would one of them be more entitled than the other? Anything to do with you hating MS?! :p

It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I can't stand him. I just find it ridiculous that they want to make an exception for a man with his experience and didn't consider it for JA (for safety reasons). I think that if JA wasn't allowed to test, Schumi should be allowed either. Same rules for everbody please.

[ioan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77534

Schumacher won't test the F60.

Harsh but fair, I suppose.

First they questioned the GP2 tires used on the F2007, and now they are the ones to refuse the request although all the other teams agreed.
I guess Williams isn't planning to be in cordial terms with the other teams after their defection to Max's side.

Haug already pointed it out that this will not be well seen by the FOTA teams.

Anyway Williams can do what they want and they will have to make do with the consequences in the future.

[ioan]

It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that I can't stand him. I just find it ridiculous that they want to make an exception for a man with his experience and didn't consider it for JA (for safety reasons). I think that if JA wasn't allowed to test, Schumi should be allowed either. Same rules for everbody please.

The difference is, as Haug already pointed it out, that STR never asked for a test exception for Jaime because if the y would have the FOTA would have accepted it.
It's not like you put it, that Alguersuari was denied a test and MS was going to get one.

[Big Ben]

The difference is, as Haug already pointed it out, that STR never asked for a test exception for Jaime because if the y would have the FOTA would have accepted it.
It's not like you put it, that Alguersuari was denied a test and MS was going to get one.

Fools. They actually thought rules are there to be respected.

[ioan]

Fools. They actually thought rules are there to be respected.

It's just a self imposed rule brought in by the teams to reduce costs.

[Sonic]

The difference is, as Haug already pointed it out, that STR never asked for a test exception for Jaime because if the y would have the FOTA would have accepted it.
It's not like you put it, that Alguersuari was denied a test and MS was going to get one.

You are right Ioan but surely the FIA could have preficted this? Mid season driver swaps are hardly uncommon so it begs the question why an exception to the rule wasn't written into the regulations? Indeed STR didn't ask - probably because they had no reason to believe they would be given consent - the rules are very clear. No testing.

IMO the FIA have done the only thing they could do to avoid perceptions (valid or otherwise) of bias, however I hope if this stupid testing ban must continue I hope the rules can be re worded for 2010 to accommodate something similar next year.

[ioan]

You are right Ioan but surely the FIA could have preficted this? Mid season driver swaps are hardly uncommon so it begs the question why an exception to the rule wasn't written into the regulations? Indeed STR didn't ask - probably because they had no reason to believe they would be given consent - the rules are very clear. No testing.

IMO the FIA have done the only thing they could do to avoid perceptions (valid or otherwise) of bias, however I hope if this stupid testing ban must continue I hope the rules can be re worded for 2010 to accommodate something similar next year.

It's not the first time when a Formula 1 rule would need to be revisited. It's rather something that happens every year! ;)

[Roamy]

Hopefully Frank Williams the F1 undisputed professional put a end to this testing BS when he vetoed the request today. Good for Frank. I know all you MS worshipers will be crying in your soup but it is high time that he FOLLOWS the rules!!

Now Mosely can override Frank I guess so probably will depend on how much money is under the table.

[N. Jones]

I am glad that the rules are being followed but I have a question:

Does a seven-time world champion need to go through a test?

[christophulus]

The difference is, as Haug already pointed it out, that STR never asked for a test exception for Jaime because if the y would have the FOTA would have accepted it.
It's not like you put it, that Alguersuari was denied a test and MS was going to get one.

Red Bull/STR say they did ask for a test and it was turned down, so they won't let Schumacher test either

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77540


The Red Bull teams are unwilling to cede to the request after Dietrich Mateschitz claimed that a similar one by Toro Rosso to give 19-year-old rookie Jaime Alguersuari some track time prior to his F1 debut in Hungary was refused.

"We asked for a test permission for Alguersuari before the Hungarian GP and it was turned down," said Mateschitz. "So why should we approve an exemption for a seven-time-champion after this?"

[Roamy]

I am glad that the rules are being followed but I have a question:

Does a seven-time world champion need to go through a test?

The nice thing about this is that I want to see. Let him follow the rules and comeback and lets see how he does. You may not have been on this forum long enough to know I am very anti MS. But most are overwhelmed with and tend to have their blinders on whenever he does anything. I have and don't need to go down his history because he may come back and kick butt and I will have to eat a little crow. My bet is that he will struggle and bit to keep up with Kimi.

"We asked for a test permission for Alguersuari before the Hungarian GP and it was turned down," said Mateschitz. "So why should we approve an exemption for a seven-time-champion after this?"

Because Bourdais wasn't put in hospital....you chose to sack him and replace him.

Those who can't see the difference are cocks.

[ioan]

Red Bull/STR say they did ask for a test and it was turned down, so they won't let Schumacher test either

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77540

Interesting they never said anything before. Looks like a load of BS to me.
How is it possible that nothing transpired into the press about them asking for a test for Jaime?

I guess STR will not be on the grid next season, at least not with Ferrari engines. Probably not with RB ownership either given that they will have to design their own car alone in 2010.

[Cooper_S]

Norbert in his interview where he said his team would allow Schumacher to test if asked, also said he would have agreed to a request from STR had it been made...

Someone is lying and personally I believe Norbert...

[ioan]

"We asked for a test permission for Alguersuari before the Hungarian GP and it was turned down," said Mateschitz. "So why should we approve an exemption for a seven-time-champion after this?"

Because Bourdais wasn't put in hospital....you chose to sack him and replace him.

Those who can't see the difference are cocks.

I'm wondering if it's true.
In fact in light of Haug's comments I go as far as saying that RedBull are lying.
Haug made it clear that if STR would have asked for a test session for Jaime Alguersuari than he would have gladly agreed to it but such a request was never made by STR!

There goes my support for RedBull, effin' liars.

[ioan]

Norbert in his interview where he said his team would allow Schumacher to test if asked, also said he would have agreed to a request from STR had it been made...

Someone is lying and personally I believe Norbert...

Same here! I believe Norbert Haug even if I never were a big McLaren Mercedes fan as he had nothing to win from saying that.

RedBull are trying to twist the situation and picture themselves as the poor underdog. Now I can only hope that McLaren and Ferrari beat them in the following races and I couldn't care less if Button beats them to the title in the end.

[Garry Walker]

Wow. That was unexpected. Wonderful news, although I am still struggling to believe it.
Out of curiosity, I will go and check what the odds the bookies are offering on him.


"We asked for a test permission for Alguersuari before the Hungarian GP and it was turned down," said Mateschitz. "So why should we approve an exemption for a seven-time-champion after this?"

Because Bourdais wasn't put in hospital....you chose to sack him and replace him.

Those who can't see the difference are cocks.

It is quite irrelevant what the reasons were. Rules are rules. As a Schumacher fan I have to say it just would not have been fair game if he had been granted the test. JA was not, so why should he be given?

Even if STR did not ask for an excemption, it is still quite irrelevant. The testing ban exists and breaking it would lead to a dangerous precedent. Why have any rules at all if they are not followed?

In anycase, if a rookie with almost zero F1 experience did not have problems adapting to a new car and being fast, why would a guy like Schumacher have any problems?

[christophulus]

I'm wondering if it's true.
In fact in light of Haug's comments I go as far as saying that RedBull are lying.
Haug made it clear that if STR would have asked for a test session for Jaime Alguersuari than he would have gladly agreed to it but such a request was never made by STR!

You'd have to question why they'd lie about it, there's absolutely nothing to gain from doing so :s . Saying no doesn't need justifying in this case.

Regardless, I agree that Schumacher shouldn't get an exemption - Ferrari could have put in a test driver who has had some recent experience, or an ex-F1 driver (Bourdais, Piquet etc) - it was their choice who to appoint after all!

I'm wondering if the FOTA teams were going out of their way to present a united front by agreeing to a test?

[Sonic]

I offer an alternative timeline (one where no one's a liar and I can keep living in cloud fairy land) perhaps Haug knew nothing as FOTA were never consulted. If I were running STR. And I wanted to see if I could get JA behind the wheel I would go directly to the FIA. The FIA flat refused point blank and STR dropped the matter.

[ioan]

I offer an alternative timeline (one where no one's a liar and I can keep living in cloud fairy land) perhaps Haug knew nothing as FOTA were never consulted. If I were running STR. And I wanted to see if I could get JA behind the wheel I would go directly to the FIA. The FIA flat refused point blank and STR dropped the matter.

That might be the case but RedBull are not presenting it like it and in fact they are refusing the test to Schumacher before the FIA has anything to say about it.

Looks to me that both RedBull and Williams are afraid that the retire will kick their drivers into the weeds. Funny, eh?!

[ioan]

You'd have to question why they'd lie about it, there's absolutely nothing to gain from doing so :s . Saying no doesn't need justifying in this case.

How many people outside a couple hundreds die hard fans will even notice this lie?!

[Bagwan]

Deitrich asked the FIA , not FOTA .
Haug stated FOTA would have let Jaime run , as justification for saying they would let Michael run .
They weren't consulted when STR wanted to run Jaime , and why would they have been ?

There is no lie here .
There is simply the opinion of a group who , though not in charge of the rules , wishes they were .

Or , if you take one more step to the cynical end , it's a comment designed to endear the FOTA teams to the public , with a showing of apparent magnanimous generosity , when they knew the FIA would never agree .

Hell , take one more tiny step , knowing that Haug is not the regular voice of FOTA , and you might think that this was just concocted as a gesture of fairness from a team found cheating more than once in recent memory , and worse , an engine supplier that might be called upon to provide power for the new entrants , should the Cosworth debacle explode .

[truefan72]

Interesting they never said anything before. Looks like a load of BS to me.
How is it possible that nothing transpired into the press about them asking for a test for Jaime?

I guess STR will not be on the grid next season, at least not with Ferrari engines. Probably not with RB ownership either given that they will have to design their own car alone in 2010.

so your solution to your hero not being allowed to test is to lose a multi-million dollar lucrative engine deal out of spite?

lol

the right and just decision was made.
Ferrari had options and chose to go with the driver not experienced in the 2009 car. Why grant an exception in this case.

[Dzeidzei]

My bet is that he will struggle and bit to keep up with Kimi.

I fail to see the problem that MS fans have over him not testing before Valencia. If youre right, he´ll be the quickest out there after 3 laps. Just think of the noise if FIA/FOTA had allowed him to test...

Anyway, if MS is within 3 tenths of Kimis lap times in the race (race! as they´ll do something flashy in free practise) I will admit that MS truly is a god. Hell, the Muslims will probably call him a new prophet after that.

Wont happen, if you ask me.

[ioan]

I fail to see the problem that MS fans have over him not testing before Valencia.

Who said there is a problem with that?
I have a problem with those saying that he is cheating and other such rubbish.
I have a problem with those who say he shouldn't test because jaime wasn't allowed either, all the while the two situations weren't the same and weren't handled in the same way either.

I have a problem with those who say he shouldn't test because jaime wasn't allowed either, all the while the two situations weren't the same

Both STR and Ferrari are putting in a driver without experience in a 2009-spec car. Both teams had drivers with experience available but chose not to use them. (And the same applies to Renault as well now that Piquet has been ousted.)

The differences? Ferrari had to make the choice after Massa's accident. Ferrari's choice also has 249 previous races under his belt. And Ferrari was able to give him seat time tn a quasi-factory-run 2007-spec car already, which the other two teams are not able to do.

[woody2goody]

Who said there is a problem with that?
I have a problem with those saying that he is cheating and other such rubbish.
I have a problem with those who say he shouldn't test because jaime wasn't allowed either, all the while the two situations weren't the same and weren't handled in the same way either.

I think his testing at Mugello was a good thing. I think it would be a little unfair to give him 2009 seat time, but once he's up to speed with ANY F1 car, I'm sure he won't have too much trouble adapting to the 2009 machine.

He just needs to get used to things like braking points, no traction control and things like that.

You never know, come Valencia, he may learn the car and track together so well that he's blindingly quick.

[woody2goody]

I fail to see the problem that MS fans have over him not testing before Valencia. If youre right, he´ll be the quickest out there after 3 laps. Just think of the noise if FIA/FOTA had allowed him to test...

Anyway, if MS is within 3 tenths of Kimis lap times in the race (race! as they´ll do something flashy in free practise) I will admit that MS truly is a god. Hell, the Muslims will probably call him a new prophet after that.

Wont happen, if you ask me.

I think it's almost certain he'll get within 3 tenths of Kimi.

However as Kimi usually sets his fastest lap on the last lap once the effects of alcohol have worn off, I think you should ignore Raikkonen's last 5 laps :p

[CNR]

Same here! I believe Norbert Haug even if I never were a big McLaren Mercedes fan as he had nothing to win from saying that.

RedBull are trying to twist the situation and picture themselves as the poor underdog. Now I can only hope that McLaren and Ferrari beat them in the following races and I couldn't care less if Button beats them to the title in the end.

if you ask one team and they say no you do not keep asking other teams


"We asked for a test permission for Alguersuari before the Hungarian GP and it was turned down," said Mateschitz. "So why should we approve an exemption for a seven-time-champion after this?
they may have asked the fia you do not KNOW

[CNR]

so your solution to your hero not being allowed to test is to lose a multi-million dollar lucrative engine deal out of spite?

lol

the right and just decision was made.
Ferrari had options and chose to go with the driver not experienced in the 2009 car. Why grant an exception in this case.
FIA announces 2010 F1 entry list



Team Constructor

Scuderia Toro Rosso STR TBA

[ioan]

they may have asked the fia you do not KNOW

Funnily enough no one knows. There was no press release from STR nor FIA about this before the Hungarian GP.
usually these things are in the press as soon as the info changed hands, now there was nothing.
Even more bizarre, although STR and RB are FOTA members McLarenMercedes never heard about them ever asking for an exception for Alguersuari.

To many missing links to believe this one.

[ioan]

And Ferrari was able to give him seat time tn a quasi-factory-run 2007-spec car already, which the other two teams are not able to do.

Really?

For whatever reason people think that Alguersuari never drove a F1 car before.
However this is factually inaccurate as he did drive the 2008 car last season (I think it was last autumn) in testing at the Algarve circuit.

Also all the other teams do plenty of demonstration runs every year using last years cars, this includes STR and RBR.

[Valve Bounce]

No . He doesn't like attention .

The point is , that , firstly , He will get a pile of it . He will be asked a zillion stupid questions about driving beside Michael . He'll hate that .

And , he'll hate that his team will be so distracted by Michael's presence as well .

How will Kimi cope with all this agro ?
I would suggest that the only way to take the shine off Michael , and focus the team , will be to be fast and focussed , himself .

Well, from what we've been reading about Kimi, he'd probably go and have a big shyte. :D

[Valve Bounce]

Hopefully Frank Williams the F1 undisputed professional put a end to this testing BS when he vetoed the request today. Good for Frank. I know all you MS worshipers will be crying in your soup but it is high time that he FOLLOWS the rules!!

Now Mosely can override Frank I guess so probably will depend on how much money is under the table.

I have to agree. Of all the team principals of F1, I would say that Frank Williams is probably the most respected. His argument is totally unbiased, and while many here would not be happy about it, I don't think anyone would go as far as to say Frank is unfair on this.

[Rollo]

"We asked for a test permission for Alguersuari before the Hungarian GP and it was turned down," said Mateschitz. "So why should we approve an exemption for a seven-time-champion after this?"

Because Bourdais wasn't put in hospital....you chose to sack him and replace him.

Those who can't see the difference are cocks.

There is a difference... and it's irrelevant.

The law is a blanket ban on testing. I don't think it would matter if someone had died, the rule remains and would be applied in exactly the same fashion. Bit fat hairy poop with corn in if the circumstances are different, the law isn't.

[Valve Bounce]

Interesting they never said anything before. Looks like a load of BS to me.
How is it possible that nothing transpired into the press about them asking for a test for Jaime?

I guess STR will not be on the grid next season, at least not with Ferrari engines. Probably not with RB ownership either given that they will have to design their own car alone in 2010.

Well, I have been suggesting that STR will have, as its driver AND owner, none other than SchM. The team will be powered by Ferrari and will have technical support directly from Ferrari. Not sure whether Rubens will accept an offer to drive for the team.

[CNR]

Really?

For whatever reason people think that Alguersuari never drove a F1 car before.
However this is factually inaccurate as he did drive the 2008 car last season (I think it was last autumn) in testing at the Algarve circuit.

Also all the other teams do plenty of demonstration runs every year using last years cars, this includes STR and RBR.

i am sure that he did some of the testing last year when mark broke his leg



Spanish teenager Jamie Alguersuari has emerged as a front runner to become Red Bull’s new formula one test driver in 2009.
According to the Spanish newspaper Diario Sport, the energy drink-backed 18-year-old, who is the British F3 champion, is close to penning a deal to replace current Red Bull test and reserve driver Sebastien Buemi.
The news is further evidence that Buemi, the Swiss 19-year-old, is set to move up to make his race debut for Red Bull junior team Toro Rosso next year.
Diario Sport said the Alguersuari deal would not be finalised until November.
He is tipped to combine the F1 role with competing in the support series GP2 in 2009.



Brendon Hartley is in the running to become a full time formula one test driver for Red Bull in 2009.
The 19-year-old New Zealander’s agent Peter Johnston confirmed to the local news agency NZPA that Hartley, who finished third in this year’s British F3 series, will substitute for the injured Mark Webber at the Jerez test later in December.
“Depending on his performance, he could become a full time test driver for Red Bull in 2009,” Johnston said.
Hartley is now among the cream of the Red Bull’s junior driver programme, and has done some limited testing with the energy drink’s two formula one teams in 2008.
Johnston said: “The Red Bull test is another step forward for his dream of reaching formula one — it’s all part of his apprenticeship.”
Hartley visited Red Bull’s Milton Keynes (UK) factory this week for a seat fitting.
This year’s Red Bull test driver was Sebastien Buemi, who is tipped to move up to a race seat at Toro Rosso in 2009.

[Roamy]

"We asked for a test permission for Alguersuari before the Hungarian GP and it was turned down," said Mateschitz. "So why should we approve an exemption for a seven-time-champion after this?"

Because Bourdais wasn't put in hospital....you chose to sack him and replace him.

Those who can't see the difference are cocks.

So now that we have decided what part of the male anatomy I represent. Should I take "Extenze" ???

[Saint Devote]

Flavio Briatore considers a 100% requirement to be one of the worst. He corectly has shown how this requirement stymies progress and results in doing nothing.

He is correct. Even boards of directors only require majorities.

The testing ban should be lifted and Gary Anderson's idea of four days divided in two between two circuits - testing as much as teams want is a at least what ought to be.
or better - in addition, how about a televised Thursday before each grand prix as a test day? It would also allow fans to see more f1 cars.

And anyone that truly is devoted to this sport would surely be happy to have that extra day.

Flavio Briatore considers a 100% requirement to be one of the worst. He corectly has shown how this requirement stymies progress and results in doing nothing.

He is correct. Even boards of directors only require majorities.

But the unanimity is exactly what FOTA wanted for the revised and renewed Concorde agreement ...

[penagate]

Loved DC's comment:


Like many other drivers, David Coulthard had been linked with Felipe Massa's vacant seat, but he seemed to scoff at the reliability of those rumours in conversation with Britain's Daily Telegraph.

"Well, I couldn't keep up with Kimi when I was at McLaren so what f*****g chance would I have now?!" said the Scot.

http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=339516

[Dzeidzei]

However as Kimi usually sets his fastest lap on the last lap once the effects of alcohol have worn off, I think you should ignore Raikkonen's last 5 laps :p

How original.

Like I said, if he´s within 3 tenths he truly is a god. And we´ll all have to grow chins.

[Dzeidzei]

Also all the other teams do plenty of demonstration runs every year using last years cars, this includes STR and RBR.

I dont get it. How can you compare the experience of MS with anything out there. The situations are nowhere near alike.

With that logic Tommi Mäkinen is also eligible for a drive. I remember him stalling and spinning the Williams in a 10 lap test some years ago.

[Roamy]

How original.

Like I said, if he´s within 3 tenths he truly is a god. And we´ll all have to grow chins.

God if he does I hope I can trade a neck for a chin :p

[Mark]

Loved DC's comment:
"Well, I couldn't keep up with Kimi when I was at McLaren so what f*****g chance would I have now?!" said the Scot.


Brilliant! I love a driver who can tell it like it is!

[ioan]

Well, from what we've been reading about Kimi, he'd probably go and have a big shyte. :D

At least his car won't be overweight than.

[ioan]

Of all the team principals of F1, I would say that Frank Williams is probably the most respected.

He sold his integrity to Max and Bernie!
Plus he and PH always treated drivers like cattle.
There's nothing to respect there anymore.

[Hawkmoon]

Fair enough. Ferrari asked and some teams turned them down. End of story. I haven't heard Ferrari complaining. Why should we?

[ioan]

And we´ll all have to grow chins.

Count me out of this.

[Sonic]

Brilliant! I love a driver who can tell it like it is!

Correction. A retired driver who can tell it like it is. No active driver would admit another driver was faster than him. Still hella funny comment though :D

[I am evil Homer]

He sold his integrity to Max and Bernie!
Plus he and PH always treated drivers like cattle.
There's nothing to respect there anymore.

Maybe he did - I disagree - he's head of an independent team losing it's biggest sponsor. I think he had to (ie was pretty much forced to be Max and Bernie) to sign up to start negotiations over engines and tell potential sponsors "we're definitely in for 2010".

He was backed into a corner, even the other FOTA members recognised this in their statement suspending Williams from FOTA.

[ArrowsFA1]

He sold his integrity to Max and Bernie!
Plus he and PH always treated drivers like cattle.
There's nothing to respect there anymore.
Really? So if FW always treated his drivers like cattle why would he bother calling JPM after Pocono? (link (http://twitter.com/JPmontoya))

Sorry ioan, but there's plenty to respect there still, and it's not just me saying it, it's former Williams drivers.

[ioan]

Really? So if FW always treated his drivers like cattle why would he bother calling JPM after Pocono? (link (http://twitter.com/JPmontoya))

Sorry ioan, but there's plenty to respect there still, and it's not just me saying it, it's former Williams drivers.

He repeatedly threw out world champions because he was a tight arse.
He also very often sold out his drivers contracts.

As for the previous replies, he didn't break up with the FOTA because he was in danger of losing his sponsors or because he needed to look after a new engine contract or other such, he did it because he accepted money from Bernie last season and he had to obey his master.

The FOTA looked after BrawnGP and promised to look after whoever buys BMW and they would have probably did the same with Williams if he would have stayed with them, but no he had to be the big boy and go Bernie's and Max's way.

[Mark]

Although I have respect for Frank Williams and his achievements I still don't like the guy after what he did to Damon Hill.

[ArrowsFA1]

He repeatedly threw out world champions because he was a tight arse.
Repeatedly? Because he was a "tight arse"? Who? Jones? Rosberg? Piquet? Mansell? Hill? Villeneuve?

Jones wanted to retire. Rosberg chose McLaren (free Marlboros perhaps?) for his swansong. Piquet had the hump and took Camel money and #1 status at Lotus. Mansell didn't want Prost and had an Indycar deal. Hill was let go on the basis of 1995 and the decision was made by the time he won the title. Villeneuve was offered silly money by BAR.

Who provided the tools for these drivers to win the WDC, and other than Piquet, who won more than one WDC?

[Mark]

. Hill was let go on the basis of 1995 and the decision was made by the time he won the title.

Quite. Hill won the championship in 1996 and Frank still defecated upon him from a great height.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Although I have respect for Frank Williams and his achievements I still don't like the guy after what he did to Damon Hill.

Plus he's from South Shields so he's clearly a wrong 'un.

[Mark]

Plus he's from South Shields so he's clearly a wrong 'un.

I didn't know that! But you are entirely correct :p

[ioan]

Repeatedly? Because he was a "tight arse"? Who? Jones? Rosberg? Piquet? Mansell? Hill? Villeneuve?

Jones wanted to retire. Rosberg chose McLaren (free Marlboros perhaps?) for his swansong. Piquet had the hump and took Camel money and #1 status at Lotus. Mansell didn't want Prost and had an Indycar deal. Hill was let go on the basis of 1995 and the decision was made by the time he won the title. Villeneuve was offered silly money by BAR.

Who provided the tools for these drivers to win the WDC, and other than Piquet, who won more than one WDC?

They won only one title mostly because they were ousted after that.
Williams did build the cars but the didn't drive them to championship titles, you know? You always need a drive to do that and the reward shouldn't be that you throw him out when he asks for a salary fit to a WDC.

Villeneuve was offered silly money by BAR? Maybe he was offered what he deserved plus a friendly environment without a Patrick head who always thought he knew better about the cars set ups than the drivers who were in the car! :rolleyes:

From my POV both Williams and Head are stuck in the 70's! Their mentality never progressed since than.

[ioan]

Thats only one less than Ferrari I must add with a significantly smaller budget.

Really?
I'm afraid that their budget was as big or bigger than that of Ferrari in the 80's and 90's and still since 97 they achieved bugger all.

[ioan]

As far as driver salaries are concerned I think they have got completely out of hand over the past 20 years. I think £5m for a standard package and £10m for a proved world champ is quite enough.. What do you think is an acceptable amount fit for a WDC??

That's down to them not to me.
If you take into account that they might get killed or disabled at any point of their career than the salaries might not look so big at all.
In the end it's all about free market regulation, demand vs offer.

Thats quite a common point you have raised there about risk and to be honest its a pretty weak arguement on their part.

Hmm...try telling Felipe that.

[Valve Bounce]

Although I have respect for Frank Williams and his achievements I still don't like the guy after what he did to Damon Hill.

Me neither. :mad:

[Valve Bounce]

Quite. Hill won the championship in 1996 and Frank still defecated upon him from a great height.

Yeah! I remember that very clearly. :mad:

[Valve Bounce]

From my POV both Williams and Head are stuck in the 70's! Their mentality never progressed since than.

OK! the question here is whether you held them back, or were they trying to keep up with you. :confused:

[Valve Bounce]

PH is an engineering genius and yes he used to like getting his own way with driver set ups but to be fair they have achieved 9 constructors championships since 1980. Thats only one less than Ferrari I must add with a significantly smaller budget.

And that's only because SchM was driving for Ferrari. Without SchM, Ferrari would only have won.....................how many? One or two? Good question.

[ioan]

I would say I am more likely to die in my job than an F1 driver and I don't earn anywhere near as much as this.

I thought you were a product designer?! :confused:

I thought you were a product designer?! :confused:

It's dangerous work being a manicurist!

[ioan]

I certainly am bro, but I also used CNC machines, rapid proto-typing applications and sometimes work in a generally unsafe workshop style environment. Not everything I do involves sitting behind a desk I'll have you know.. I also don't earn a six or seven figure salary or get paid danger money.. :)

I this case maybe my students should ask for money when they have to learn the use of CNC machines during workshops?! :rolleyes:
Strangely enough aside the moment when they have to launch the machining process they are never close to the CNC machine, they rather sit at the computer while the machine executes the uploaded program. Doesn't look so dangerous to me unless the CNC machine decides to disintegrate which is a very very low probability.

[SGWilko]

I guess I'll have to take your word for that mate, you should know... Now you're retired I bet your nails look fantastic... Oh behave, chase me :p

:laugh:

[christophulus]

Ferrari are being very diplomatic about the whole testing thing...


Maranello, 4th August 2009 - Guess who opposed the test with the F60? A team that hasn't won anything for years and yet didn't pass over the opportunity to demonstrate once more a lack of spirit of fair play.

Just for the record, the Scuderia Ferrari had given its approval to let Alguersuari test, but it seems even in this instance someone decided to stick to the precise wording of the regulations.

http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/090804_F1_Indiscretion.aspx

Honestly, sticking to the wording of the regulations. That's not how F1 works! :p

[ioan]

Ferrari are being very diplomatic about the whole testing thing...



Maranello, 4th August 2009 - Guess who opposed the test with the F60? A team that hasn't won anything for years and yet didn't pass over the opportunity to demonstrate once more a lack of spirit of fair play.

Just for the record, the Scuderia Ferrari had given its approval to let Alguersuari test, but it seems even in this instance someone decided to stick to the precise wording of the regulations.

http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/090804_F1_Indiscretion.aspx

Honestly, sticking to the wording of the regulations. That's not how F1 works! :p

F@@k RedBull.
So Ferrari have approved the test for Alguersuari but RedBull and STR aren't grown up enough to do the same, even though they know that Williams will not agree anyway.

I guess it's a matter of Mateschit trying to look mighty in the newspapers, no matter if it's totally unethical.

[Knock-on]

Ferrari are being very diplomatic about the whole testing thing...



http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/090804_F1_Indiscretion.aspx

Honestly, sticking to the wording of the regulations. That's not how F1 works! :p

That statement from Ferrari demonstrates a lack of class IMO :down:

Jamie was denied a test because it was against the rules. Williams are perfectly within their right to object.

If a rookie can come into F1 and get up to speed in a single meeting, I really struggle to understand what Ferrari are sulking about.

And people that struggle with the rules and believe that Massa getting injured somehow gives justification for some sort of special dispensation are on cuckoo land. We are talking about a 7 times champion who has unlimited testing he can do over the next 3 weeks in a F1 car. All he has to do is slightly refine his braking points in free practice where he's going to do over a hundred laps anyway.

[ioan]

That statement from Ferrari demonstrates a lack of class IMO :down:

I guess that saying the truth is a lack of class while lying is making you look classy?! :confused:

Their comments might not be top shelf diplomatic expression but it's the expression of the facts that happened, nothing more or less.

[Knock-on]

I guess that saying the truth is a lack of class while lying is making you look classy?! :confused:

Their comments might not be top shelf diplomatic expression but it's the expression of the facts that happened, nothing more or less.

Sounds more to me like they're just having a little paddy and throwing their toys out of the pram :laugh:

Just imagine what you would be saying if the teams involved were reversed ;)

[BDunnell]

ioan, I thought you were of the view that Algersuari being refused a proper test was perfectly within the rules, and therefore acceptable? Doesn't it follow that the refusal in relation to Schumacher, given that it too is perfectly within the rules, is also acceptable?

[ioan]

Sounds more to me like they're just having a little paddy and throwing their toys out of the pram :laugh:


Maybe they just realized that some people (RBR and STR) wanted to be in the FOTA only to reap the rewards but would not like to contribute at all, not even with being honest towards their partners.

I would have done the same, Mateschitz' public tirade deserved a public and not at all diplomatic slap in the face. I say well done to Ferrari for putting the political correctness aside and letting us know who the hypocrites are.

I already said I have little respect for Williams, for the reasons I already expressed, now I can only class RedBull at the bottom of the respect scale in F1, and hope that Brawn takes both championships this season with a bit of help from McLaren and Ferrari.

[ioan]

ioan, I thought you were of the view that Algersuari being refused a proper test was perfectly within the rules, and therefore acceptable? Doesn't it follow that the refusal in relation to Schumacher, given that it too is perfectly within the rules, is also acceptable?

I fully agree with that part, if one was denied the chance than the other being denied by the same team is as correct as it can be.

However I can't stand people like Mateschitz who ask for help, get your support and than back stab you when you ask for the same the support from them.

[ioan]

I'm a bit sceptical about where this statement came from. Looks like it was written by the web developer rather than a PR guy from Ferrari IMO... This can't possibily be a serious press release from an extremely professional team like Ferrari, surely??

I hope not... :)

Why not?
Did you see the level of some of the RBR and STR releases?! Maybe Ferrari decided to talk to RedBull using the very same level of language in order to make them understand?!

[Roamy]

Maybe they just realized that some people (RBR and STR) wanted to be in the FOTA only to reap the rewards but would not like to contribute at all, not even with being honest towards their partners.

I would have done the same, Mateschitz' public tirade deserved a public and not at all diplomatic slap in the face. I say well done to Ferrari for putting the political correctness aside and letting us know who the hypocrites are.

I already said I have little respect for Williams, for the reasons I already expressed, now I can only class RedBull at the bottom of the respect scale in F1, and hope that Brawn takes both championships this season with a bit of help from McLaren and Ferrari.


I hope brawn wins both championships because the car and the drivers perform better that anyone out there

[ioan]

I hope brawn wins both championships because the car and the drivers perform better that anyone out there

The car doesn't perform that well anymore and the drivers aren't stellar either, however the team is at least not trying to make themselves look good by $hitting on their business partners.

[Dave B]

Ferrari whining about the "letter of the rules" when they were one of the teams crying over double diffusers? When they were the ones complaining about Michelins changing shape during a race? Awwww diddums :rotflmao:

At least Ferrari's PR man has the integrity to tell it the way his team see it.

[gloomyDAY]

A team [Williams] that hasn't won anything for years and yet didn't pass over the opportunity to demonstrate once more a lack of spirit of fair play. :laugh: Ahhhhhhh Ferrari!

That made my day.

[christophulus]

Ferrari don't have a leg to stand on here, rules are rules. Whining about someone else not breaking the rules is quite comical really. :p

Besides:


A Williams spokesperson told AUTOSPORT the team was not planning a response.

"I don't think we would wish to dignify Ferrari's statement with a reply," he said.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77551

[gloomyDAY]

Just for the record, the Scuderia Ferrari had given its approval to let Alguersuari test, but it seems even in this instance someone decided to stick to the precise wording of the regulations.Ferrari acknowledged that STR asked for permission to test Alguersuari and they granted permission. So, Red Bull wasn't lying! That leaves me wondering who opposed Alguersuari's test.

[truefan72]

Ferrari acknowledged that STR asked for permission to test Alguersuari and they granted permission. So, Red Bull wasn't lying! That leaves me wondering who opposed Alguersuari's test.

probably the FA and now they only want to see the playing filed level and fair for all.

Just like that my empathy for Ferrari goes right back o9ut the door. Crying like a spoiled privileged child at the fact that they could not bend the rules and then claim it to be unfair. Ridiculous.
Sadly for them they don't have the FIA in their backpocket anymore where they could just force through their plans and the FIA would then come through with a new rule retroactively to justify the actions.

ah! life like everyone else

The statement released by William's just goes to show the vast divide between an adept, professional response and Ferrari's off the cuff, maladroit, blunder of a PR exercise...

Given that you are a Mclaren and Hamilton fan, that is a bit rich.

When your team and driver has integrity and a professional honest approach to PR, then we will listen to your criticisms.

Until then, outright liars had best keep schtuum.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77552

"It's on! I accepted the challenge. And as you all know, I really love challenges"

Ah, yes....I remember those who claim that Kimi had sent Michael into retirement, that Michael didn't want to have an 'equal' team-mate.....

....turns out those folks were talking bollocks.

[ioan]

The statement released by William's just goes to show the vast divide between an adept, professional response and Ferrari's off the cuff, maladroit, blunder of a PR exercise...

A bit rich coming from a fan of the MCheats&Liars team.
Ferrari might be maladroit but at least they say the truth about how STR and RBR behaved.

[ioan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77552

"It's on! I accepted the challenge. And as you all know, I really love challenges"

Great!
I hope he beats both Williams and RedBull for a change! :D



Ah, yes....I remember those who claim that Kimi had sent Michael into retirement, that Michael didn't want to have an 'equal' team-mate.....

....turns out those folks were talking bollocks.

That was always obvious.
Kimi is a good driver and a nice bloke, however his fanatics are a complete disaster.

Or you could just fall on a spike my friend? I don't appreciate being called a liar.

I'm a Hamilton fan yeah sure, but purely a Mclaren fan no I am not. You could say I am a Red Bull, Mclaren, William's and a Ferrari fan to be honest. I have cheered them all over the years. This statement from Ferrari really can't be justified and you are kidding yourself if you think this acceptable behavior for a prestige company like themselves. Even my girlfriend raised her eyebrows when she read it and she hates F1, so is impartial in all this. My view on this certainly isn't rich as I was one of the first to stick the boot in when Mclaren were caught cheating so whats your point? :confused:

Twas not my intention to call you personally that. I intended to point out that championing Hamilton then questioning others credibilty is not a great idea. My apologies for not making that clear.

[Ranger]

It's a black-and-white rule which Ferrari are asking permission from other teams to break.

Which is fine... until they started complaining about being denied.

[CNR]

to be fair to redbull would you wont to give the best driver time in a car so he could take points of you

with a good race for redbull could half the points to button

[CNR]

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/motorsport/2009/08/ferraris-counter-attack-on-wil.html


Ferrari are not drafting Schumacher in because he's a jolly good sport, they are doing it because he's a winner.

[ioan]

to be fair to redbull would you wont to give the best driver time in a car so he could take points of you

Why should we be fair to people who back stabbed the ones who helped them?

[yodasarmpit]

This thread has become boring with two cocks constantly posting poop.

[wedge]

Maranello, 4th August 2009 - Guess who opposed the test with the F60? A team that hasn't won anything for years and yet didn't pass over the opportunity to demonstrate once more a lack of spirit of fair play.

Just for the record, the Scuderia Ferrari had given its approval to let Alguersuari test, but it seems even in this instance someone decided to stick to the precise wording of the regulations.

For a moment I thought Garry Walker/Tamburello wrote that statement!

[ioan]

This thread has become boring with two cocks constantly posting poop.

I'm glad to meet one of them! :D

[yodasarmpit]

I'm glad to meet one of them! :D
At least you made me laugh :)

Although I don't agree with the in season testing ban, a rule I dislike greatly. The rule is pretty straight forward for all to follow.

As a side note. I can't wait to see one of the true great drivers, Schumi, back in the Ferrari, testing or no testing.

[ioan]

At least you made me laugh :)

That was my intention! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

"Maranello, 4th August 2009 - Guess who opposed the test with the F60? A team that hasn't won anything for years and yet didn't pass over the opportunity to demonstrate once more a lack of spirit of fair play.

Just for the record, the Scuderia Ferrari had given its approval to let Alguersuari test, but it seems even in this instance someone decided to stick to the precise wording of the regulations."

Sounds like some school girls fighting over who should be the cheer leader. :rolleyes:

[grantb4]

Ferrari don't have a leg to stand on here, rules are rules. Whining about someone else not breaking the rules is quite comical really.

And considering Ferrari already has one or two test/reserve drivers that they decided to OVERLOOK and instead install Schumacher. Ferrari made that choice knowing the rules (hoping to overcome them, possibly). Now if EVERYONE was allowed to test that day, then maybe... but I can totally see William's point.

[race_director]

anyway even as a schumi and ferrari fan. there is no need of the fuzz everyone is creating about williams not ready to allow MSC test the car.

MSC is a great guy and sure he can drive the car in velancia. I though the ferrari press release is uncalled for.

[Valve Bounce]

When you think about it carefully, now is not the time to ask for an exception of the rules, especially for SchM. There would have been a shytefest afterwards had SchM gone on to win. We are not talking about one race here, but the remainder of the season, and SchM should easily adapt to the car after 4 hours of practice, quals, and the full distance of the race, for the rest of the season. When viewed from apart, and with some logic, it is far better for Ferrari and SchM not to have a special test.

[markabilly]

When you think about it carefully, now is not the time to ask for an exception of the rules, especially for SchM. There would have been a shytefest afterwards had SchM gone on to win. We are not talking about one race here, but the remainder of the season, and SchM should easily adapt to the car after 4 hours of practice, quals, and the full distance of the race, for the rest of the season. When viewed from apart, and with some logic, it is far better for Ferrari and SchM not to have a special test.

I would add that if it were somebody at the level of Alguersuari, that would be one thing, but very clearly one of the major secrets to the speed of MS was to be able test a car, get a feel for the car and be involved in making improvements to it, that often did greatly assist in making the car great.

Given that opportunity, i could see him doing a couple of runs, making some comments, the engineers consider it and gin up some new peices that are ready by race day........and come race day, everyone else is going :eek:

OTOH, if he shows up at the first race practice, no doubt he will quickly adopt to whatever is available, but the opportunity to really be able to gin up something, such as some areo device and have it ready to be tested at the race, will not be there.

Now if I am the manager of some competitor, no way, rules or not, fair play or not, honest or not, childish or not, am I going to let that man have that opportunity. Sort of like picking up a gun that has been freshly loaded, looking down the barrel and pulling the trigger to see if the bullets will really work.

errreerr, no.

[wmcot]

Flavio Briatore considers a 100% requirement to be one of the worst. He corectly has shown how this requirement stymies progress and results in doing nothing.

He is correct. Even boards of directors only require majorities.

The testing ban should be lifted and Gary Anderson's idea of four days divided in two between two circuits - testing as much as teams want is a at least what ought to be.
or better - in addition, how about a televised Thursday before each grand prix as a test day? It would also allow fans to see more f1 cars.

And anyone that truly is devoted to this sport would surely be happy to have that extra day.

Nah! You're making too much sense! :)

[wmcot]

And considering Ferrari already has one or two test/reserve drivers that they decided to OVERLOOK and instead install Schumacher. Ferrari made that choice knowing the rules (hoping to overcome them, possibly). Now if EVERYONE was allowed to test that day, then maybe... but I can totally see William's point.

I always say, "It never hurts to ask."

Actually I think there should be very limited in season testing. This could be done with a minimum of expense. Just schedule a few races with a 3 week gap after them and allow the teams to test for a day or two at the track they just raced on - no expense of moving the whole team across Europe (or across the world!)

This would help even the playing field by allowing teams to catch up with those who are running away (Brawn) just because they had the best design before the season started.

Right now, it's whoever happened to get it right out of the box will run away with the championship while the other teams have to make educated guesses about how to improve their cars because their hands a tied. Everyone wants closer racing - this is one way to achieve it.

[wmcot]

And considering Ferrari already has one or two test/reserve drivers that they decided to OVERLOOK and instead install Schumacher. Ferrari made that choice knowing the rules (hoping to overcome them, possibly). Now if EVERYONE was allowed to test that day, then maybe... but I can totally see William's point.

Exactly - give everyone a test day or two during the season. The testing will allow everyone to close the gap and make the racing closer (which is what everyone "says" they want.)

BTW - I wonder if it was Frank or Patrick Head who made the call? P. Head is not that fond of MS.

[race_director]

i do not know what the hell was MAX thinking when he introduced a testing ban. it is like going to a exam without studying .


stupid MAX

[leopard]

Perhaps that rule introduced budget cap is in compliance with

[ioan]

When you think about it carefully, now is not the time to ask for an exception of the rules, especially for SchM. There would have been a shytefest afterwards had SchM gone on to win. We are not talking about one race here, but the remainder of the season, and SchM should easily adapt to the car after 4 hours of practice, quals, and the full distance of the race, for the rest of the season. When viewed from apart, and with some logic, it is far better for Ferrari and SchM not to have a special test.

Let's just say that MS wouldn't be MS if he didn't hit the ground running, unlike other drivers with the let it be mentality.

[ioan]

i do not know what the hell was MAX thinking when he introduced a testing ban. it is like going to a exam without studying .


stupid MAX

Live Max out of it, the teams asked were the ones who asked for it in the first place.

[I am evil Homer]

Gotta say even as a Ferrari fan that statement was classless. "Spirit and fair play".....hmmm....people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[ioan]

BTW - I wonder if it was Frank or Patrick Head who made the call? P. Head is not that fond of MS.

It was Head, he was also the one who went as far as asking the FIA if the tires used during the F2007 test were really GP2 tires.
He's also the same person who once questioned the stewards about the flexing of some winglets on the Ferrari a few years ago even though the very same part on their car was flexing twice as much.
Head is a b!tch, nothing else.

[Knock-on]

Williams are in a 4 hourse race this year for 3rd place in the championship and the money that would bring.

Why would they want to give an advantage to an opponant?

If I was Williams, I wouldn't give Ferrari or any other team a hand to help beat me.

I did say earlier in the thread that I would have no objection to him testing but the more I think about it, I agree with Red Bull and Williams.

Those people bitching now about Williams and condoning the Ferrari press release are the sort of people that always find an excuse to blame others for their own limitations.

[ShiftingGears]

Nothing illegal here - just several teams acting in their best interests.

[race_director]

Nothing illegal here - just several teams acting in their best interests.

exactly . every team trying so save its from the GOD MSC

[Big Ben]

exactly . every team trying so save its from the GOD MSC

My little advice for you: don't throw your underpants while he's driving

[SGWilko]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77552

"It's on! I accepted the challenge. And as you all know, I really love challenges"

Ah, yes....I remember those who claim that Kimi had sent Michael into retirement, that Michael didn't want to have an 'equal' team-mate.....

....turns out those folks were talking bollocks.

Turns out Kimi isnt quite the 'iceman' he used to be now he has won a WDC............

[ioan]

Turns out Kimi isnt quite the 'iceman' he used to be now he has won a WDC............

I bet MS isn't the same he was in back 2000 either! ;)

[SGWilko]

I bet MS isn't the same he was in back 2000 either! ;)

True, but a two year and a nine year differential are different things.

I suspect Schui will whip Kimi's butt once he is up to speed - after lap three of Friday testing........... ;)

[BDunnell]

I fully agree with that part, if one was denied the chance than the other being denied by the same team is as correct as it can be.

However I can't stand people like Mateschitz who ask for help, get your support and than back stab you when you ask for the same the support from them.

I can certainly understand that.

[Knock-on]

True, but a two year and a nine year differential are different things.

I suspect Schui will whip Kimi's butt once he is up to speed - after lap three of Friday testing........... ;)

This is the interesting question for me.

I rate MS very highly for his ability but IMHO, the situation at Ferrari always skewed his success. "Was he really that good" is a question I asked myself but we never found out.

Kimi is quick but I believe rather over-rated for my liking and Massa was beginning to get the upper hand. Now, you may believe Massa is a God but personally I don't.

I fully expect MS to dominate Kimi from the start but if he doesn't....

[race_director]

This is the interesting question for me.

I rate MS very highly for his ability but IMHO, the situation at Ferrari always skewed his success. "Was he really that good" is a question I asked myself but we never found out.

Kimi is quick but I believe rather over-rated for my liking and Massa was beginning to get the upper hand. Now, you may believe Massa is a God but personally I don't.

I fully expect MS to dominate Kimi from the start but if he doesn't....

acctually in the 2 yrs when MS was not there ferrari won 1 WDC and fought like cats and mouse for the other .


But we have to consider that ferrari was crap team when MS came into . ferrari was in a very bad shape that time. so the work and dedication put into the team has really made him the champion.


and also as everyone says " managing a sucessful career in more more important than the sucess intself.


This the one area i have admired him for many years. that the true class of champion


On the other hand we see Many Driver's like JV. montoya , Ralf. all pressed the self destruct button them self.

[nigelred5]

Michaels strength has always been his technical feedback and most importantly, His charisma that wins people over. Find me another team that has ever bought in so totally to supporting a driver. Rubens and Filipe may have never been afforded a strategic advantage as long as MS was on track, however they certainly benefitted from an incredibly well developed car due to his presence. From the Doorman to the steering wheel, Ferrari's F1 team was 100% behind Michael Schumacher, that was never in question. Like it or not, there's only one driver's championship at stake and that was to be Michael's chamionship. Only spot at the top. The driver that scores the most points. You can never convince me that Rubens and Filipe weren't fully aware of this from well before either signed his first Ferrari contract.

If the primary team goal is a driver's championship, It's hard to find fault in their success with MS behind the wheel.

[race_director]

Michaels strength has always been his technical feedback and most importantly, His charisma that wins people over. Find me another team that has ever bought in so totally to supporting a driver. Rubens and Filipe may have never been afforded a strategic advantage as long as MS was on track, however they certainly benefitted from an incredibly well developed car due to his presence. From the Doorman to the steering wheel, Ferrari's F1 team was 100% behind Michael Schumacher, that was never in question. Like it or not, there's only one driver's championship at stake and that was to be Michael's chamionship. Only spot at the top. The driver that scores the most points. You can never convince me that Rubens and Filipe weren't fully aware of this from well before either signed his first Ferrari contract.

If the primary team goal is a driver's championship, It's hard to find fault in their success with MS behind the wheel.

My point of view is that whn MS was there . He was always NO 1 in all thinks in teams. which in my opinion is the correct agreement. The team was made NO 1 by MS hard work . so that fruit of sucess belonged to IRVINE . MIKA , Rubens. Massa, KIMI. .


Well for IRVINE . vanished once left ferrari. MIKA . well he was replactment for injured MS. But he did have his 15 mins of fame, with some podium and also let MS win in some race . Ruben . same as vanished once left ferrari .

IMO KIMI is he best fitter of the MS era in Ferrari. If MS did not retire in 2006. If MS was still there in 2007 . then David would have been in RB . KIMI in MCL . and Hamiboy would have got all the 1st class service. Well Massa almost won last year.


If some one asked me to sign as a NO 2 driver for team with MS . would could stay with guys

[pino]

With all the respect for Michael, I don't think he will beat Kimi, not in the first race anyway ;)

[Roamy]

hopefully he won't even beat trulli

[ioan]

MIKA . well he was replactment for injured MS. But he did have his 15 mins of fame, with some podium and also let MS win in some race .

What?!
When did Salo let MS win some race? You better lay of the drugs before posting.

[race_director]

What?!
When did Salo let MS win some race? You better lay of the drugs before posting.

MY BAD . i mean let eddie win the race. i guess the 100% home made patented stuff i make and drink works at the end :)

[CNR]

What?!
When did Salo let MS win some race? You better lay of the drugs before posting.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~alhatu/1999/1999/f1news.htm



German GP Results: 1999
Eddie Irvine wins the German Grand Prix ahead of temmate Mika Salo and Heinz Harald Frentzen, Ralph Schumacher, David Coulthard and Olivier Panis make the top 6.
A surprising result which saw Hakkinen crash midway through the race and Coulthard damaging his front wing. Mika Salo letting Irvine pass handed the Irvine the win and the lead in the drivers championship.
Race Start
Mika Salo gets a superb start while Frentzen and Irvine don't. Mika Hakkinen leads followed by Mika Salo, David Coulthard. Frentzen, Barrichello and Irvine make the top 6.
Pedro Diniz and Jacques Villeneuve touch and both go out on the first corner.
Barrichello passes Frentzen and starts catching Coulthard who was catching Salo.
Barrichello retires with hydraulic problems on lap 7 while Fisichella retires on the following lap with suspension problems.
David Coulthard attempts to pass Mika Salo but touches the rear wheel of Salo and loses a part of his front win, he pits to replace the front wing and rejoins in 11th.
Race Order: Hakkinen, Salo, Frentzen, Irvine, Ralph Schumacher and Wurz.
Irvine manages to pass Frentzen in the pits while Hakkinen pits and loses valuable time while his pit crew struggle with his refuelling pump. He rejoins in 4th behind Frentzen but manages to pass him very quickly. A few moments later his left rear tyre disintegrates throwing the McLaren in a few spins before crashing into the tyre barrier.
Salo lets Irvine through handing him the lead, race order: Irvine, Salo, Frentzen, Ralph Schumacher, Coulthard, Herbert. The race finishes with Irvine ahead of Salo followed by Frentzen, Ralph Schumacher, David Coulthard and Olivier Panis.


do they let kimi go for the win or give kimi the order to let michael through (not as easy as it used to be) ?

[ioan]

do they let kimi go for the win or give kimi the order to let michael through (not as easy as it used to be) ?

What do you think?! :rolleyes:

[Alfa Fan]

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~alhatu/1999/1999/f1news.htm (http://members.ozemail.com.au/%7Ealhatu/1999/1999/f1news.htm)


do they let kimi go for the win or give kimi the order to let michael through (not as easy as it used to be) ?

So you picked a race Schumacher didn't run? :confused:

[CNR]

So you picked a race Schumacher didn't run? :confused:

yes



Originally Posted by race_director http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=671840#post671840)
MIKA . well he was replactment for injured MS. But he did have his 15 mins of fame, with some podium and also let MS win in some race .

[CaptainRaiden]

MY BAD . i mean let eddie win the race. i guess the 100% home made patented stuff i make and drink works at the end :)

It's amazing how you find time from getting drunk and staring at that TGF poster on the wall, to come here and blitz the place with your brilliance. :)

On topic: Geez, after witnessing the love affair of MS fans in this thread overhyping his return, it really has become VERY interesting to see how he does.

I wish him best, and hope that he comes out on top in his race long battle with Alguersari and Piquet for 20th. ;)

[Roamy]

Look for Badoer or Gene to be in the seat in Valencia

No testy No drive

Michael Schumacher's return to Formula 1 in Valencia later this month remains subject to a medical clearance after his spokeswoman Sabine Kehm revealed that concerns linger over the strength of his neck.

[DexDexter]

Michaels strength has always been his technical feedback and most importantly, His charisma that wins people over. Find me another team that has ever bought in so totally to supporting a driver. Rubens and Filipe may have never been afforded a strategic advantage as long as MS was on track, however they certainly benefitted from an incredibly well developed car due to his presence. From the Doorman to the steering wheel, Ferrari's F1 team was 100% behind Michael Schumacher, that was never in question. Like it or not, there's only one driver's championship at stake and that was to be Michael's chamionship. Only spot at the top. The driver that scores the most points. You can never convince me that Rubens and Filipe weren't fully aware of this from well before either signed his first Ferrari contract.

If the primary team goal is a driver's championship, It's hard to find fault in their success with MS behind the wheel.

This charisma thing is interesting since people always complained that Schumi had no charisma when compared to Senna.

[nigelred5]

Charisma is subjective of course, and we are talking about a German, not a Brazilian type of charisma, but from reports I've alway have read and my own experience, it's undeniable that where ever he went, success and his support followed. MS went to Ferrari, then Brawn went with him, much because MS wanted him to. Do we hear reports of MS having rants and tanatrums about the car, his teammates or fellow drivers as we do about nearly every other driver in F1 at one time or the other? No, he comments, makes his opinion known, and then went about his job of doing what was within his power to enlist the efforts of his team to improve the car to better his chance of winning. Why would Ferrari keep him around as an advisor on all things with wheels. Surely Ferrari have enough charismatic Italians around to act as a representative in all things Ferrari.

Sure, ferrari's race strategies involving MS have never been very secret or even modestly veiled as equal between drivers. To me, that shows someone has what it takes to be a leader AND the ability to get people to want to follow. Whether it was Ferrari, Benetton, or even back on the Mercedes junior sportscar team(I'll leave the drivers out of that one), the team members in the organization have always been drawn to him and supporting his success. I've never read otherwise. Hell, even fellow drivers have willingly signed their contracts that made them an unquestioned #2 at Ferrari, knowing damn well they would rarely if ever have truly equal status and chance at winning. Sure, Rubens (and I'm a fan of his) finally had enough and moved on when his contract was up, but that surely hasn't gone so well in most respects for RB and now HIS whining about teammates HAS become public.
I'm sure Gene and Badoer have strong feelings about being passed up for the seat, yet I've neither read nor heard anything negative from Either driver, and both have apparently been present when MS has taken to the track. I'm sure both are hoping MS isn't fit enough to drive at Valencia, but they are there in support none the less. I chalk much of that up to Charisma, not merely acknowledgement of the realty that he is clearly a better, more accomplished driver than either.

Michael certainly is no Nigel ;)

[N. Jones]

hopefully he won't even beat trulli

:laugh:


Pages and pages about him.... you people are crazy! :D

[Valve Bounce]

:laugh:


Pages and pages about him.... you people are crazy! :D

It's the 4 week break, and we have nothing else to talk about here :(
In fact, I'm even reading all of ioan's posts :(

[Roamy]

I will give credit where due.

This is pretty damn committed by MS. Excellent

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38626

[CNR]

Ferrari's 2009 model: F1 legend Schumacher in top condition
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1204858/Ferraris-2009-model-F1-legend-Schumacher-condition.html



Michael Schumacher may be coming out of retirement, but he looked in peak physical condition on Thursday after a second day of kart racing in Italy to prepare for his Formula One comeback.
The 40-year-old German has embarked on a rigorous training regime

[race_director]

why do they need sponser logo when MS was testing the 2007 car ?

[Sonic]

why do they need sponser logo when MS was testing the 2007 car ?

Eh? Why wouldn't they? Ferrari are getting more exposure in this week that they have all season.

[Valve Bounce]

He still has two weeks to go , and his physical condition will be tops come Friday Practice in Valencia.

[ioan]

These will be 2 very loooong weeks! :D
I can't wait to see him in the F60!

[555-04Q2]

In fact, I'm even reading all of ioan's posts :(

Your wife needs to take you to the doctor for a check up from the neck up :p :

[jens]

Anyway, I certainly understand Red Bull's and Williams' stance. If even complete rookies like Alguersuari can't test before their first race in F1, then why should the most successful driver of all times get an exception? This would be quite a joke.

[Cooper_S]

why should the most successful driver of all times get an exception? .

LOL.... why join a thread with 426 replies and make a rather silly comment like that... we are way past answering that... again... did it not occur to you to read the other comments first, because I'm sure you'll find ample replies to that question, and it would have saved you the bother of posting in the first place...

[jens]

LOL.... why join a thread with 426 replies and make a rather silly comment like that... we are way past answering that... again... did it not occur to you to read the other comments first, because I'm sure you'll find ample replies to that question, and it would have saved you the bother of posting in the first place...

Huh :?:

By the way, it was more likely a rhetoric question. ;)
And secondly, I didn't know there was a deadline to replying to a thread after a "discussion is over". :idea:

Anyway, I certainly understand Red Bull's and Williams' stance. If even complete rookies like Alguersuari can't test before their first race in F1, then why should the most successful driver of all times get an exception? This would be quite a joke.

It would have been quite understandable as it was a clear cut case of "force majeure" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure ).

"Force majeure" legally can over-rule standard rules and regulations. It can over-rule statute law.

No matter if the substitute driver was the most succesful former driver of all time, that should not make him exempt from what would, in any legal definition, be commonly considered "force majeure".

Ferrari certainly never planned to have a driver in hospital after qualifying. That would make the replacement driver situation at Ferrari a clear case of "force majeure".

The Alguersauri and Grosjean situations are not the same. Both Toro Rosso & Renault chose to replace a driver. Neither Bourdais or Piquet had serious head injuries. They have been replaced by choice.

However, as it is now impossible for Schumi to test without a protracted legal action, it is apparent that certain British teams do not accept the concept of "force majeure" and this has to be accepted for the greater good...............Although any chance of disabled access ramps being available for hire in the Monza area come mid-September have now gone.

As a team owner who has provided the cars in which two drivers have lost their lives, perhaps Sir Frank should have had more empathy for his fellow competitors?

Alas, empathy isn't a Williams characteristic.

Now, what was that saying....oh yes...."Be nice to people on the way up....you might meet them on the way back down".

Sir Frank might one day realise the wisdom of that phrase....a lot sooner than he thinks.

[schmenke]

It would have been quite understandable as it was a clear cut case of "force majeure" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure ).

"Force majeure" legally can over-rule standard rules and regulations. It can over-rule statute law.

No matter if the substitute driver was the most succesful former driver of all time, that should not make him exempt from what would, in any legal definition, be commonly considered "force majeure".

Ferrari certainly never planned to have a driver in hospital after qualifying. That would make the replacement driver situation at Ferrari a clear case of "force majeure"..

No.
Force Majeure is a contractual clause that is rarely used. It applies to circumstances where a catastrophic uncontrollable event, external to the situation, forced a breach of contract; an event, typically analogous to an “act of God”, e.g. earthquake, hurricane, etc.

The hospitalization of Massa caused by an on-track accident hardly constitutes Force Majeure.

I work in project management where part of my duties is managing large engineering and/or construction contracts. In my 20+ year ( :uhoh: ) career, I have never seen Force Majeure even come close to being applied.

[Sonic]

And even if force majeure did apply it was Ferrari's choice to run MS rather than another driver with experience of the F60.

[ioan]

No.
Force Majeure is a contractual clause that is rarely used. It applies to circumstances where a catastrophic uncontrollable event, external to the situation, forced a breach of contract; an event, typically analogous to an “act of God”, e.g. earthquake, hurricane, etc.

The hospitalization of Massa caused by an on-track accident hardly constitutes Force Majeure.

I work in project management where part of my duties is managing large engineering and/or construction contracts. In my 20+ year ( :uhoh: ) career, I have never seen Force Majeure even come close to being applied.

You mean that Massa's accident was controllable by Ferrari?!

It's nice that you came up with a definition for 'force majeure' however it would have been even nicer if you would have understand the definition. :rolleyes:

[ioan]

And even if force majeure did apply it was Ferrari's choice to run MS rather than another driver with experience of the F60.

No their driver but Massa and Raikkonen have racing experience in the F60.
Badoer has no experience at all, and Gene only did a straight line test, to add to it Gene didn't race in F1 since 2004 and Badoer since 1999!

I guess it's easier to come up with statements, like yours, than researching the facts.

Long leave the ignorant! :rolleyes:

[Ranger]

No.
Force Majeure is a contractual clause that is rarely used. It applies to circumstances where a catastrophic uncontrollable event, external to the situation, forced a breach of contract]


You mean that Massa's accident was controllable by Ferrari?!

It's nice that you came up with a definition for 'force majeure' however it would have been even nicer if you would have understand the definition. :rolleyes:

As completely arbitrary and shocking as it was, the fact that Felipe was injured on track is not exactly extraordinary to the extent that defines "Force Majeure".

Why?

Because F1 drivers choose to race under the knowledge, and the international legal clause, that "motorsport is dangerous".

[Valve Bounce]

As completely arbitrary and shocking as it was, the fact that Felipe was injured on track is not exactly extraordinary to the extent that defines "Force Majeure".

Why?

Because F1 drivers choose to race under the knowledge, and the international legal clause, that "motorsport is dangerous".

I was amused that such a clause existed relating to F1. I suppose if there was an earthquake, war outbreak, or plane hijacking, serious accident, hurricane or other sudden and catastrophic act of God that prevented a driver from turning up at a track for a race, then a replacement driver would be acceptable under the Force Majeure clause.

An accident to a driver on track is not quite the same. However, I think the FIA should clarify the situation where any driver, for reasons of accidents or illness cannot drive, then who should be able to replace him, and testing if any should be permitted. This is particularly prudent if the ability of the replacement driver needs to be ascertained.

[gm99]

You mean that Massa's accident was controllable by Ferrari?!

It's nice that you came up with a definition for 'force majeure' however it would have been even nicer if you would have understand the definition. :rolleyes:

He wasn't saying that at all, just that not every uncontrollable event automatically constitutes "force majeure", which is true and certainly in line with the legal definition.

A driver getting injured in professional motorsports is (unfortunately) hardly out of the completely unforeseen; rather it is the manifestation of the inherent risk associated with motorsports.

Sorry, but the one not understanding the definition was you, not schmenke.

[Dave B]

I've got an opinion but as there are already over 400 replies it's apparently too late for me to voice it, according to this new arbitrary rule we decided on a few posts ago. :p

[Robinho]

i'd like to know if Badoer and Gene really have had no time in this years car as Ioan states (apart from a straight line test) as Williams release did make mention of Ferrari having 2 drivers available who have tested the F60.

only 1 is right here and i have a lack of evidence for either truth, can someone fill in the balnks

[Robinho]

oh and Dave, that rule was set a couple of days ago so its a bit late to start commenting on that either

[Sonic]

I guess it's easier to come up with statements, like yours, than researching the facts.

Long leave the ignorant! :rolleyes:

Correct me if I am wrong but the wording I used was "experience" with regards to the F60. Regardless of how many (or few) miles covered by a driver that constitutes experience in my book. At least more so than MS.

Long live the pedantic! :p :

[Knock-on]

oh and Dave, that rule was set a couple of days ago so its a bit late to start commenting on that either

You are soooo "90 minutes" ago :p

<Ducks out of the way of the self appointed Mods>

:D

[jens]

Giving a test for Alguersuari or Grosjean would have made more sense. Before Jaime's debut there were suspicions that due to his lack of experience he might be a danger to other on track and act stupidly, in which case an extra test could have at least partly justified.

In Schumacher's case I don't think anyone has fears or expectations quite in the same category. It's really the matter about simply raising his competitiveness in the new car and certainly rivals are not interested in giving an advantage to Ferrari in this area. While no-one would fear those completely green rookies.

Doesn't matter whether MS was "forced" to race due to that accident or not - he is at least in theory still better-prepared to step in than those rookies.

[race_director]

i though of posting but since the topic is into 23 pages and 445 posts . i thought not worth spending time on the same topic :)

[race_director]

good old days gonna return back .

11 days to be precise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiEY3MWPGnU&feature=related

:)

[ioan]

He wasn't saying that at all, just that not every uncontrollable event automatically constitutes "force majeure", which is true and certainly in line with the legal definition.

A driver getting injured in professional motorsports is (unfortunately) hardly out of the completely unforeseen; rather it is the manifestation of the inherent risk associated with motorsports.

Sorry, but the one not understanding the definition was you, not schmenke.

Sorry but I think you didn't get the definition, just like Schmenke didn't! :laugh:

[ioan]

Correct me if I am wrong but the wording I used was "experience" with regards to the F60. Regardless of how many (or few) miles covered by a driver that constitutes experience in my book. At least more so than MS.

Long live the pedantic! :p :

As you say, we can call anything experience, and the race engineers and mechanics have much more experience with the car than any of the drivers, so why not use them instead of using a driver, or even better let's use the designer of the he certainly knows it with closed eyes. :p :

[ioan]

Giving a test for Alguersuari or Grosjean would have made more sense. Before Jaime's debut there were suspicions that due to his lack of experience he might be a danger to other on track and act stupidly, in which case an extra test could have at least partly justified.

In Schumacher's case I don't think anyone has fears or expectations quite in the same category. It's really the matter about simply raising his competitiveness in the new car and certainly rivals are not interested in giving an advantage to Ferrari in this area. While no-one would fear those completely green rookies.

Doesn't matter whether MS was "forced" to race due to that accident or not - he is at least in theory still better-prepared to step in than those rookies.

Are you afraid that MS would trash Trulli if he get's a couple laps in the F60?! :D

[jens]

Are you afraid that MS would trash Trulli if he get's a couple laps in the F60?! :D

What has Trulli got to do with all this? :p : Of course, all teams are afraid of MS, if he gets fully comfortable with the car. ;) But this also means that their opposition to Schumacher's (illegal) test is completely justified.

[Sonic]

As you say, we can call anything experience, and the race engineers and mechanics have much more experience with the car than any of the drivers, so why not use them instead of using a driver, or even better let's use the designer of the he certainly knows it with closed eyes. :p :

Ah sarcasm......the lowest form of wit. :p

You make me smile Ioan. :)

[Knock-on]

I think this pretty much sums things up in a rational manner. Had Massa avoided the component there would be people on here screaming "Divine Intervention" no doubt :laugh:

This thread has provided me with some entertainment this morning with this force majeure boll*cks... Keep it up peeps theres still 10 days to go and I need a laugh :)

Precisely.

Anyone seriously trying to apply Force Majure to this situation is hopelessly deluded.

:rolleyes:

[ioan]

What has Trulli got to do with all this? :p : Of course, all teams are afraid of MS, if he gets fully comfortable with the car. ;) But this also means that their opposition to Schumacher's (illegal) test is completely justified.

How can a test be illegal when it never happened?!

[Sonic]

Its illegal to drink drive too, and whilst I've never done it - its still illegal.

[ioan]

Its illegal to drink drive too, and whilst I've never done it - its still illegal.

But others did, and that's why it became illegal.

Now, where did Ferrari or anyone else do something like this this season in order to be considered illegal?

Is it illegal to drink beer on Mars? Just think about it and let me know.

Let's go one step further and take an example.

Is it illegal to shoot (deadly or not) a person? It is (at least in the democratic world).
Still policemen and soldier are allowed to do it under certain circumstances. Why is that? Because they are granted a dispensation from the letter of the law by the parties who make the laws.
If MS would have been granted by the other teams and by the FIA a dispensation from the rule than the test would not have been 'illegal'.

I think people around here just love to write sentences containing the word 'illegal' cause it makes them feel like if they can condemn someone and makes them feel important, while they are actually not.

Cheers! :s mokin:

[ArrowsFA1]

Now, where did Ferrari or anyone else do something like this this season in order to be considered illegal?
The ban on in-season testing was part of the cost-cutting measures announced by the FIA in December 2008 - details (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72459).

[Knock-on]

The ban on in-season testing was part of the cost-cutting measures announced by the FIA in December 2008 - details (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72459).

Give up mate. He's trolling for the sake of it.

Whan it comes down to argueing a proposed drinking ban on a planet nobody has ever set foot on to substantiate his claims, you know he has gone past the bounds of reality... and even gravity :D

Classis ioan. Never say die even when you're dead. :laugh:

[ioan]

The ban on in-season testing was part of the cost-cutting measures announced by the FIA in December 2008 - details (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72459).

And?! I know the rules and why they are in place, but you are not answering the question your are replying to.
Why would getting a dispensation from the rules (agreed by the other teams and the FIA) be illegal?

[ioan]

Classis ioan. Never say die even when you're dead. :laugh:

Classic Knockie, never say something close to being intelligent. :rotflmao:
Are you going to run and hide again if I don't agree with your 'comments'? :D

[ioan]

Back to the thread topic now.
MS to test the F2007 for 2 more days this week! :D

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77609

Will Patrick Head show up to personally check that the GP2 tires aren't giving Michael some performance advantage over the opposition?! :laugh:

[Knock-on]

Classic Knockie, never say something close to being intelligent. :rotflmao:
Are you going to run and hide again if I don't agree with your 'comments'? :D

My dear little man. Being frustrated by juvernile little trolls like you and deciding to have a bit of time away from the playground may be running away in your book but is considered rather differently by most rational members.

However, you seem to be back up to your bad old tricks again and will get away with your insulting, rude and disrespectfull attitude. As per normal you will get away with it as the Mods wont throw your sorry littls ass out of here so I guess we have to accept your behaviour and try our best to ignore you.

[ioan]

My dear little man. Being frustrated by juvernile little trolls like you and deciding to have a bit of time away from the playground may be running away in your book but is considered rather differently by most rational members.

However, you seem to be back up to your bad old tricks again and will get away with your insulting, rude and disrespectfull attitude. As per normal you will get away with it as the Mods wont throw your sorry littls ass out of here so I guess we have to accept your behaviour and try our best to ignore you.

Why did you even come back than?! You couldn't bash forum members from where you were?

You want me to respect you? Why should I do that when all you do is constantly talk rubbish about me? :rolleyes:

Also you could start using some adequate language around here before judging other, not that I expect you to become a gentleman over night (you know what they say about polishing a turd), but you could at least give it a try maybe it will help your image a bit.

I for one will ignore you from now on, all you do is disrupting threads, like you did with this one too.

[ArrowsFA1]

And?! I know the rules and why they are in place, but you are not answering the question your are replying to.
Well, it's easy to lose track sometimes :laugh: You appeared to be comparing in-season testing with drink driving :crazy:

The fact is in-season testing was banned by the FIA as part of their cost cutting measures. They didn't ban it because someone had been caught testing when they shouldn't have been.

Whether the driver is Jaime Alguersuari or Michael Schumacher, the rule is the same unless all the teams agree to a test exemption. And they didn't. In either case.

Storm in a teacup (http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/storm+in+a+teacup.html).

My dear little man. Being frustrated by juvernile little trolls like you and deciding to have a bit of time away from the playground may be running away in your book but is considered rather differently by most rational members.

However, you seem to be back up to your bad old tricks again and will get away with your insulting, rude and disrespectfull attitude. As per normal you will get away with it as the Mods wont throw your sorry littls ass out of here so I guess we have to accept your behaviour and try our best to ignore you.

You are quick to (deservedly) criticise others for their aggressive language, so how about practicing what you preach?

[goodf1fun]

Knock-on (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/member.php?u=75403) please stop this behavior is not good for you!!!

[Knock-on]

You are quick to (deservedly) criticise others for their aggressive language, so how about practicing what you preach?

I don't recall preaching anything. Just calling it like I see it :D

Personally, I enjoy the banter and heated discussions on here but a few people seem to love trolling which turns people right off this forum. I wonder how many members have left because of the childish element on these boards?

However, it's not my job to adjudicate but as a member, I have every right to bring it up as the Mods have every right to sanction me if they believe I have transgressed the rules.

Still, enough of the silliness. Back to the discussion.

[ioan]

Well, it's easy to lose track sometimes :laugh: You appeared to be comparing in-season testing with drink driving :crazy :p [/URL].

It was 'sonic' who did that, not me.
So, yep, you are right it seems it's easy for you to lose track sometimes! :p :

[Roamy]

MS found another car to test this week. I would like to see this baby when it arrives. Probably is a new car built to this years specs. Which now leads me to wonder if the car he will show up with will be the same as Kimi's

[ratonmacias]

once a cheat always a cheat

[ioan]

MS found another car to test this week. I would like to see this baby when it arrives. Probably is a new car built to this years specs. Which now leads me to wonder if the car he will show up with will be the same as Kimi's


once a cheat always a cheat

Do you guys make up to post this BS at the same time or it's something in the water on your side of the world?! :D

[jens]

If MS would have been granted by the other teams and by the FIA a dispensation from the rule than the test would not have been 'illegal'.


Ehm, well, true. But as 'other teams' didn't want to allow MS to have a test, it means they want all teams to follow the rules without exceptions, which is entirely logical. So why are you annoyed at the actions of Williams and Red Bull, when they are aiming to play by the rules? :)

[jimakos]

MS found another car to test this week. I would like to see this baby when it arrives. Probably is a new car built to this years specs. Which now leads me to wonder if the car he will show up with will be the same as Kimi's

Good information and correct!
MS worths a new car only for him!
The man is a live legend...

[Sonic]

It was 'sonic' who did that, not me.
So, yep, you are right it seems it's easy for you to lose track sometimes! :p :

Someone mention my name?? :)

When all is said and done we all know it won't make a shread of difference if Shumi gets to drive the F60 or the 08 or 07 model, or a wheelie bin powered by a pedal bike he'll still come in and make some current drivers look like taxi drivers in comparrison because the man is a Leg end.

[ratonmacias]

Do you guys make up to post this BS at the same time or it's something in the water on your side of the world?! :D


its only to make you mad

[BDunnell]

Remind me to return to threads such as this when the average mental age displayed by the posters rises above six.

[ioan]

Ehm, well, true. But as 'other teams' didn't want to allow MS to have a test, it means they want all teams to follow the rules without exceptions, which is entirely logical. So why are you annoyed at the actions of Williams and Red Bull, when they are aiming to play by the rules? :)

I'm not annoyed at Williams as what they did was in their right.
I'm annoyed at RedBull because after Ferrari granted their wish with Alguersuari (and Williams understandably shot it down) they didn't see fit to return teh favor and went the backstabbing route.
And I'm also annoyed with you for talking about 'illegal' things when nothing happened.

[ioan]

its only to make you mad

I know! :D

[ratonmacias]

hey dont worry about the chin he doesnt need training he will driving outstandingly after the first race.

[ratonmacias]

and another thing ioan thank lewis hamilton for being so annoying that know i even kind of like the chin.

[Valve Bounce]

This thread is lurching rapidly towards the farcical. It has as much relevance to the topic as crossing a Shytesu with a Bulldog.

[Roamy]

Do you guys make up to post this BS at the same time or it's something in the water on your side of the world?! :D

its the fu_________g tequila

[Roamy]

So ms gets the wDC car with slicks - Not bad - Kimi gets the Bratwurst !!

[pino]

Guys show is over, sorry :p :