Felipe Massa injured in Hungary GP qualifying [Archive]

Dave B

25th July 2009, 16:14

Ferrari have already confirmed he won't race, and the rules do not allow for a change of driver at this stage unless a team can argue force majeure.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8694/fia.html

Whether Ferrari try this is doubtful. Marc Gene is their designated 3rd driver and is at the track; Ferrari could potentially salvage a constructors' point or two, but I'd be amazed if they have 2 cars out on Sunday.

The bigger question might be whether Massa's match-fit for Valencia, but I don't want to get into pointless speculation about his injuries.

leopard

25th July 2009, 17:19

ok, I'll be off to watch the qualifying now... :D

ioan

25th July 2009, 17:23

Given his situation he will probably not race in further any races this year. :(

woody2goody

25th July 2009, 17:25

Given his situation he will probably not race in further any races this year. :(

Why do you think that?

From what I have seen he's got a cut above his left eye, he doesn't appear to have any damage to the eye itself.

Yes, he took a bang on the head, but I can see him back for the next race unless he decides he doesn't want to do it any more.

Giuseppe F1

25th July 2009, 17:25

Massa needs to undergo surgery and has suffered skull damage and brain concussion - would image he will miss a fair few races now in 2009...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77276

Massa suffers skull damage, concussion
By Pablo Elizalde
Saturday, July 25th 2009, 15:55 GMT

Felipe Massa will need to undergo surgery after it emerged he has suffered bone damage of his skull and a brain concussion in his accident at the Hungarian Grand Prix.

The Brazilian will be forced to miss the race after he was hit in the head by debris believed to belong to Rubens Barrichello's car.

Massa was airlifted to a Budapest hospital, where he remains in stable condition.

Ferrari said in a statement that Massa will need to undergo surgery and will have to stay under observation in intensive care for an undisclosed period of time.

"After the accident during the qualifying session of the Grand Prix of Hungary, Felipe Massa was airlifted to the AEK hospital in Budapest," the statement said. "Felipe was conscious at the arrival at the hospital and his general conditions remain stable.

"Following a complete medical examination it emerged that he had suffered a cut on his forehead, a bone damage of his skull and a brain concussion. These conditions need to be operated on after which he will remain under observation in intensive care."

The team said further information will be released later tonight.

ioan

25th July 2009, 17:28

Massa needs to undergo surgery and has suffered skull damage and brain concussion - would image he will miss a fair few races now in 2009...

I hope they play it safe and let him recover until next year's winter testing session starts.

Robinho

25th July 2009, 17:31

hope he recovers fully and quickly, and secondly i hope we see him back in the Ferrari, if and when he is ready - best wishes Felipe

Mark

25th July 2009, 17:33

Hard to say just from that if he will be back this year but no doubt he will take time to get back to race fitness.

I am evil Homer

25th July 2009, 17:45

All I care about right now is that Felipe is okay. It was a freak accident and thank god it looks like he's going to be okay. I wish him all the best for a speedy recovery.

Somebody

25th July 2009, 17:50

woody2goody

25th July 2009, 17:53

Well in this case I hope he does take time off as a precaution. I agree that getting him back for winter testing is the best option.

After a few months he'll be ok, but would you want to put him in, say in Abu Dhabi when he doesn't have a chance of the championship? You're best putting in your test driver and keeping Felipe safe for the rest of the year.

woody2goody

25th July 2009, 17:56

Fractured skulls take a while to heal, and that's before you consider that they often indicate a serious brain injury (which don't always show up right away), or that he's going to have surgery on his head.

I would be shocked if he drove an F1 car in anger again this year, and at least mildly surprised if he drove in the first race NEXT year...

Good points there. We also have to consider that after today, he may not want to risk racing again. He has enough money that he wouldn't NEED to come back. I really hope he does but he may quit while he's ahead.

I'm so happy that, at least so far, it's nothing more serious than what it is.

Bagwan

25th July 2009, 18:57

Autosport is reporting that the surgery went well .

Thank-you , I say , to the attending doctors in Budapest .

And I wish Felipe a speedy recovery from a nasty incident .
Take your time , as I am sure your seat will be safe until you return .

Easy Drifter

25th July 2009, 19:03

woody2goody

25th July 2009, 19:06

That's great news if the procedure went well. I hope he goes home and rests up ready, hopefully, for a tilt at the title in 2010.

ioan

25th July 2009, 19:06

With what appears to be a fractured skull (what else is cranial bone damage?) and concussion there could easily be further serious problems. In this type of injury it may take a while before the real extent is determined. Surgery could indicate either repair or a problem with swelling of the brain.
At least since Mark Donahue's death people (F1 Drs.) are more aware of the dangers.
I would be very happy to hear that Sid Watkins was being called in. I sure hope so. He is still one of the best, despite his age.

Apparently the surgery was only for his broken bone, the brain wasn't damaged to such an extent that it would have needed surgery.

As for the concussion you're right, only time will tell if everything is OK with his brain. Hopefully it will be OK and he will be as new after the recovery.

AndyRAC

25th July 2009, 19:24

Good luck to Felipe, and best wishes.

Let him come back when he and the Doctors reckon it's safe to do so. I would think it would be after the season has finished.

woody2goody

25th July 2009, 19:38

If Felipe is potentially out for the season, then it would make sense for Ferrari to still run two cars this weekend, if they wanted to appeal and it was successful.

It would give the potential replacement a chance to get some practice in before they can mount a serious challenge for points/podiums/victories for the rest of the season.

Definitely, Ferrari will need Kimi to step up to fill the void.

yodasarmpit

25th July 2009, 19:47

After seeing the picture above it looks pretty serious, I wish him all the best in his recovery.

The damage to the helmet indicates just how big a hit he took.

woody2goody

25th July 2009, 20:00

Sky Sports News is saying that Massa is now in 'life-threating condition' after his surgery.

I'm not sure I could take it after what happened last week :(

NickFalzone

25th July 2009, 20:07

Head injuries can be extremely painful, particularly when the swelling involved necessitates surgery. This usually happens many hours later which is why he's in ICU. I also believe that the hit into the tire barrier made the injury already a bit worse.

Somebody

25th July 2009, 20:09

Sky have a record of pushing any old crap - they say anything, because they value "being first" over being accurate.

Not saying it couldn't be true - he took a 800g hit @ 175mph+the speed of the damper, after all, and brain injuries can take hours to really show - but take Sky News with a lot of salt...

ArrowsFA1

25th July 2009, 20:16

The BBC have said Felipe's condition is "serious, life threatening but stable"

markabilly

25th July 2009, 20:22

AP: Hospital official says Felipe Massa is in "serious, life-threatening but stable" condition

http://twitter.com/BreakingNews

AndyRAC

25th July 2009, 20:26

The BBC have said Felipe's condition is "serious, life threatening but stable"

Oh dear :(
C'mon Felipe, pull through.

BeansBeansBeans

25th July 2009, 20:26

I'm not sure whether to be alarmed, or whether such wording is the norm after this sort of op. I just hope he's okay.

Somebody

25th July 2009, 20:34

Can we PLEASE get the title of this thread changed, now? I thought it was ridiculous to start with (even a mild concussion - which is the minimum you can expect after being stunned like that - would have barred him from racing tomorrow), but now... as I say, can it PLEASE be changed?

I'm not sure whether to be alarmed, or whether such wording is the norm after this sort of op. I just hope he's okay.
It's not as bad as Sky made it sound. Basically, he's in trouble, but as long as he's "stable"...

Robinho

25th July 2009, 20:35

oh god not again please - i hope this is just hospital jargon - after all he's had an operation on his head and will rightly be in the ICU - hope its just procedural and nothing more, fingers crossed

ArrowsFA1

25th July 2009, 20:36

ignore reports on Sky/AP that Massa is in life threatening condition. He's stable after an op and will be okay. Long recuperation though.
http://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1

Dave B

25th July 2009, 20:36

Sky News: never wrong for long.

Pathetic sub-Fox tabloid scaremongers who wouldn't know proper journalism if it bit them on the arse wearing a neon sign saying "I'm serious journalism". :s

Has Michael Jackson's death stopped being "BREAKING NEWS!" on their channel yet?

Somebody

25th July 2009, 20:39

I don't think ANYTHING can be "sub-Fox", but, otherwise, yep. Especially the "pathetic" part - any channel or other news agency that cares about "being first" over accuracy, and hypes up even those reports, deserves contempt.

ioan

25th July 2009, 20:40

markabilly

25th July 2009, 20:42

http://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1
"ignore reports on Sky/AP that Massa is in life threatening condition. He's stable after an op and will be okay. Long recuperation though"

Whatever.....Allen can do that which the best doctors in the world can not do, predict a couple of hours later after the accident, the outcome of a serious head injury while the patient is on a ventilator, in ICU and just out of surgery

BeansBeansBeans

25th July 2009, 20:45

Whatever.....Allen can do that which the best doctors in the world can not do, predict a couple of hours later after the accident, the outcome of a serious head injury while the patient is on a ventilator, in ICU and just out of surgery

A layman thinking he knows better than medical professionals? Fancy that.

Robinho

25th July 2009, 20:51

maybe not, but at least he is out in Budapest and is close to the teams so likely to have much more reliable information than a Sky news sound bite.

ioan

25th July 2009, 20:52

I hope he will fine tomorrow when they bring him back from the induce coma.

People who undergo similar surgery are always described as being in life threatening but stable condition. It's usually a way to cover for possible complications instead of going straight out and claiming victory. Let's hope this is the case again.

Come on Felipe, that baby to be born in November needs a father.

christophulus

25th July 2009, 20:59

Fingers crossed that he'll come out of this OK. :(

VkmSpouge

25th July 2009, 21:41

I really hope Felipe Massa makes a complete and speedy recovering from this.

ClarkFan

25th July 2009, 21:44

Has Michael Jackson's death stopped being "BREAKING NEWS!" on their channel yet?
Well, they have gotten that story correct. Like Francisco Franco, Jackson is still dead. :\

ClarkFan

ClarkFan

25th July 2009, 21:46

I hope he will fine tomorrow when they bring him back from the induce coma.

Come on Felipe, that baby to be born in November needs a father.
Same here - worried but hoping for the best.

ClarkFan

J4MIE

25th July 2009, 21:53

Best wishes for Felipe to get better soon, hopefully he will be back next year, he shouldn't rush back. Very scary accident to have, just the wrong place at the wrong time :(

Somebody

25th July 2009, 22:11

This would seem relevant:

http://twitter.com/rubarrichello/status/2842001340
I just came back from the hospital.Felipe went trough a cirurgy which went very well.Now he is asleep waiting for a new scan tomorrow

[NB: "chirurgy" appears, after a google search, to simply mean "surgery"]

Also, James Allen said:

https://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1/status/2842456667
Massa's doctor reporting to Brazilian media that brain scan is clear and signs are positive. Family is en route to Hungary now

Ranger

25th July 2009, 22:18

I missed qualifying, hope he makes a full recovery! :(

christophulus

25th July 2009, 22:20

Also, most news agencies have removed the reference to "life-threatening" injuries so I hope his condition is better than has been suggested in some areas.

DazzlaF1

25th July 2009, 22:29

It didnt look much when I saw the replays first time around, but its only when i saw it again and had a good close look at what happened that it shocked me, his helmet didnt half take an almighty whack from what looked like a spring.

Here's hoping he makes a speedy recovery from this, even though Hamilton beat him to the title last year, I have always admired him for being gracious in defeat afterwards, plus he's a darn good driver in the right car.

Get well soon Felipe :up:

J4MIE

25th July 2009, 23:09

even though Hamilton beat him to the title last year, I have always admired him for being gracious in defeat afterwards

Yes he gained a fan in me that day, even though at the time I wanted Lewis to win. Hopefully he can come back and make a challenge again next year if Ferrari are going to concentrate on the 2010 car.

Roamy

25th July 2009, 23:24

markabilly

25th July 2009, 23:44

from espn;

"At the time he was admitted to hospital his condition was stable and he was breathing and blood circulation was normal," the Hungarian defense department said in a statement.(?????)

"During the course of his examination they established that he suffered serious, life-threatening injuries, including loss of consciousness and a fracture of the forehead on the left side and a fracture on the base of the skull."

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/f1/news/story?id=4355374

not sure what is meant by the statement "fracture at base of skull"; those types of injuries are extremely serious, and are the reason for the Hans device

Results can be instantly fatal or paralysis; loss of hearing, smell; other problems such as bleeding or fluid leakage.

I assumed the surgery had to do with the right forehead and a desire to prevent eye injury from movement, or to relieve brain pressure, but if done due to a skull fracture around the base of the skull, a far worse indication of problems

AJP

25th July 2009, 23:58

This is a terrible situation.

Best wishes to Felipe and his family.

Hopefully we will all have good news on his condition very soon.

DazzlaF1

26th July 2009, 00:01

from espn;

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/f1/news/story?id=4355374

not sure what is meant by the statement "fracture at base of skull"; those types of injuries are extremely serious, and are the reason for the Hans device

Results can be instantly fatal or paralysis; loss of hearing, smell; other problems such as bleeding or fluid leakage.

I assumed the surgery had to do with the right forehead and a desire to prevent eye injury from movement, or to relieve brain pressure, but if done due to a skull fracture around the base of the skull, a far worse indication of problems

I've seen a picture taken when he managed to get out of the car and from what it looks, the visor was completely sheared off on one side, very nasty.

http://www.footballbanter247.co.uk/forum//index.php?showtopic=26321

One things for sure though, the safety of the driver's helmets I bet will be called into question, especially as this is the 2nd serious incident in just under a week.

Also the HANS device i think is there to prevent serious neck injuries more than the skull, i may be wrong though.

call_me_andrew

26th July 2009, 00:18

Also the HANS device i think is there to prevent serious neck injuries more than the skull, i may be wrong though.

Well it's called "Head And Neck Support" because it helps at the base of the skull where the head meets the neck.

Basilar skull fracture is one of the most common causes of death in racing.

Best case scenario: Massa is back by Monza.

It would be more realistic to expect him back sometime between Singapore and the start of next season.

I'm interested in knowing what Ferrari's immediate plans are.

ClarkFan

26th July 2009, 00:25

Dazzla,
Watching the video makes one thing clear - it should have an automatic response to red flag qualifying and summon an ambulance immediately. The car plunged straight into the tires at high speed. The default assumption for any heavy crash like that should be that the driver needs immediate medical attention. If they don't, fine, no bad consequences. An extra ambulance trip and a few minutes delay in the race meet won't end the world. But if officials delay response, they may create the risk of an unnecessary death.

ClarkFan

Somebody

26th July 2009, 00:28

I'm interested in knowing what Ferrari's immediate plans are.
Well, they've got at least a couple of weeks to decide who'll be driving for them at Valencia, since that's four weeks away. If there was a race next weekend, or perhaps even the one after, Marc Gene would almost certainly get the nod.

As it is, since he's not raced an F1 car for years, and hasn't driven one for months with the testing ban, they might do what they did after Schumacher's crash and try to poach a driver from a midfield team...

WSRfan82

26th July 2009, 00:28

I agree mate good point.

they did seem a little slow knowing what was going on.

philipbain

26th July 2009, 00:33

Well it's called "Head And Neck Support" because it helps at the base of the skull where the head meets the neck.

Basilar skull fracture is one of the most common causes of death in racing.

Best case scenario: Massa is back by Monza.

It would be more realistic to expect him back sometime between Singapore and the start of next season.

I'm interested in knowing what Ferrari's immediate plans are.

Obviously it will depend greatly on his condition, response to treatment and rehabilitation but I wouldnt put it beyond the bounds of possibility that Massa could be back for the next race at the European GP due to the long gap in the schedule, 4 weeks infact. But it's too early to say anything for certain, I just hope that he makes a speedy and full recovery.

CNR

26th July 2009, 00:52

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6727501.ece
Felipe Massa in coma after 150mph crash in Hungary

A bizarre accident during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix put Ferrari’s Felipe Massa in hospital. He suffered bone damage to his skull after a suspension piece from the Brawn of Rubens Barrichello was thrown into his helmet, ripping away its side and causing an injury just above his left eye

Massa soon regained consciousness and had to be sedated in the car by medical crew before he was taken by stretcher to the adjacent medical centre. From there, he was flown to a Budapest hospital with skull damage and concussion. An operation on his skull was reported by Ferrari to have been successful last night and he was put into a controlled coma to minimise brain swelling.

woody2goody

26th July 2009, 01:17

Well, I'm actually glad someone changed the thread title now, as the longer it went on, the more stupid it sounded :D

BDunnell

26th July 2009, 01:28

woody2goody

26th July 2009, 01:34

From what I saw, I don't think there was any great delay in red-flagging the session.

They didn't red flag it at all as far as I'm aware. it was the very end of quali anyway, so they only needed 30 seconds or so for everyone to finish their laps.

ClarkFan

26th July 2009, 01:40

From what I saw, I don't think there was any great delay in red-flagging the session.
From the crash to summoning the ambulance, it was at least a couple of minutes, some of which was marshalls standing around and not checking on Massa. For the injuries he had, that probably won't make a serious difference in his outcome. If he had been bleeding seriously (like Rindt at Monza in 1970), that delay could well have killed him then and there.

ClarkFan

PA Rick

26th July 2009, 01:43

call_me_andrew

26th July 2009, 02:58

I saw some data and it looked like after the impact with the spring, both the brakes and throttle went to 100%. I assume his body tensed causing both feet to extend. The front wheels locked and scrubbed speed. He must be a left foot braker because had his foot been away from the brake, and the throttle was applied at 100%, he may have hit the tires at a much higher speed.

I didn't notice it before, but you're right. He was at WOT with the brakes on full when he went off the track.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/massaWOT.jpg

waitey

26th July 2009, 03:20

I saw some data and it looked like after the impact with the spring, both the brakes and throttle went to 100%. I assume his body tensed causing both feet to extend. The front wheels locked and scrubbed speed. He must be a left foot braker because had his foot been away from the brake, and the throttle was applied at 100%, he may have hit the tires at a much higher speed.

Yeah that's right mate. Everyone in F1 is a left foot braker and the steering column doesn't allow you to right foot brake anymore.

Anyways all the best for Felipe's recovery. How come there won't be a replacement driver today?

Roamy

26th July 2009, 06:41

Anyways all the best for Felipe's recovery. How come there won't be a replacement driver today?

well a couple of reasons.
1. His injury is quite serious and the team will show their respect by parking his car.

2. Even if they did put a driver in they would have to start from last and there is really no point.

ShiftingGears

26th July 2009, 08:23

Anyways all the best for Felipe's recovery. How come there won't be a replacement driver today?

It's against the rules.

Roamy

26th July 2009, 08:30

ShiftingGears

26th July 2009, 08:36

squirrel

I did not know that. Are you sure you cannot substitute drivers if you then start the car from the back??

Yes, they can't do that. I don't think theres any exceptions to that rule.

Ranger

26th July 2009, 08:36

squirrel

I did not know that. Are you sure you cannot substitute drivers if you then start the car from the back?? It seems logical to me that if a driver got sick that you could go ahead with the car.

Only the driver who qualifies a car may race it. That's my understanding.

It may be that a driver must participate in at least one session before the Race.

In any case it is certain that no one will drive the #3 Ferrari tomorrow.

Roamy

26th July 2009, 08:46

yea I just found this - thanks for the info

Ferrari has only confirmed that Massa would not be lining up on the grid for round ten of the season, causing some speculation about possible replacements, but the regulations insist that any driver change would have had to have been confirmed prior to the session in which Massa suffered his freak, but potentially life-threatening, accident.

According to rule 19.1 of the F1 sporting regulations, under the heading of driver changes, replacements 'may be made at any time before the start of the qualifying practice session, provided any change proposed after 1600hrs on the day of scrutineering receives the consent of the stewards'. The rulebook does add, however, that 'additional changes for reasons of force majeure will be considered separately'.

Garry Walker

26th July 2009, 08:47

I saw some data and it looked like after the impact with the spring, both the brakes and throttle went to 100%. I assume his body tensed causing both feet to extend. The front wheels locked and scrubbed speed. He must be a left foot braker because had his foot been away from the brake, and the throttle was applied at 100%, he may have hit the tires at a much higher speed.

The brakes were not at 100%, his foot gently rested on the brakes because he was unconscious.

All in all a very sick accident, Felipe was extremely lucky this thing did not hit his directly through visor or a few cm lower or he would probably dead now or at least blind from one eye.

Take a look at this picture.
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/07/920735

Roamy

26th July 2009, 08:52

The brakes were not at 100%, his foot gently rested on the brakes because he was unconscious.

All in all a very sick accident, Felipe was extremely lucky this thing did not hit his directly through visor or a few cm lower or he would probably dead now or at least blind from one eye.

Take a look at this picture.
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/07/920735

i stayed up late to see if any news came. I guess I will go get 4 hrs before the race. I am still very concerned

Dave B

26th July 2009, 08:54

The brakes were not at 100%, his foot gently rested on the brakes because he was unconscious.

The FOM graphic suggests otherwise, showing him braking with full force. I'd be interested to know why you disagree.

Edit: I think I've answered my own question:

The data says that he applied 60bar of pressure to the brake, which is the equivalent of laying his foot on it gently, while the throttle was effectively jammed on.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/07/the-latest-from-the-track-on-massa/

I guess the FOM graphics are not always accurate :s

Ranger

26th July 2009, 09:00

The helmet did its job. The spring did not penetrate the helmet.

However, the fact remains that when the human head collides with a 1kg object at 200km/h, the sheer force if the impact cannot dissipate in the distance between the outer surface of the helmet and the driver's head.

DexDexter

26th July 2009, 09:08

Finnish sources are now quoting Hungarian television where the doctors have estimated that Massa could be out for 2-4 months. According to the report his condition remains the same as in the evening. Let's hope he makes a speedy recovery.

The link (in Finnish):
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/urheilu/uutinen.asp?id=1714126

Dave B

26th July 2009, 09:25

DexDexter

26th July 2009, 09:28

That's the trouble: to most of us, "full recovery" means being able to lead a perfectly normal life. However to a racing driver a "normal life" means being subjected to huge g-forces, hours of vibration, extremes of temperature, and tremendous physical and mental stress.

This Massa situtation reminds me of Mika Häkkinen's crash in 95, although the crash in itself was totally different, Häkkinen suffered a fractured skull as well, and it took a very long time for him to recover and after the accident he seemed to change a little bit. Went on to great things though.

Ranger

26th July 2009, 09:44

I guess the FOM graphics are not always accurate :s

What they show is accurate... but FOM graphics only show throttle modulation and not brake modulation.

I'd like to know if there's any reason for it.

F1boat

26th July 2009, 09:58

This is so sad... ( I hope that Felipe will recover and return like Hakkinen to become WDC!

Dave B

26th July 2009, 10:49

The speed of Massa's impact has been comfirmed:

The spring hit the front left-hand side of Massa's helmet when he was travelling at 162mph. Although it is believed the 28-year-old was unconscious after being struck, his foot was on the brakes before he hit the barrier at Turn Four, at which point he had slowed to 62mph.

:s

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8169206.stm

Psycho!

26th July 2009, 11:17

Acoording to mtv3,Massa has NOT brain injury...That's very good...Phew...!!

ioan

26th July 2009, 11:23

The speed of Massa's impact has been comfirmed:

:s

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8169206.stm

62 mph, let's hope they are right. I was fearing it was more like around 100 mph.

PA Rick

26th July 2009, 14:23

The brakes were not at 100%, his foot gently rested on the brakes because he was unconscious.

]

The front wheels were locking up according to the video. We cant see the rears but the car appeared to decelerate.

ioan

26th July 2009, 15:00

Apparently the latest CT was clear and he will stay in induced coma for the following 48 hours.

woody2goody

26th July 2009, 15:04

Apparently the latest CT was clear and he will stay in induced coma for the following 48 hours.

Good news that the scans were clear :)

Garry Walker

26th July 2009, 15:19

Good news.

christophulus

26th July 2009, 16:29

Glad to hear some positive news :up:

Somebody

26th July 2009, 16:47

62 mph, let's hope they are right. I was fearing it was more like around 100 mph.

It's not the impact with the wall that's the real trouble - if that part of the accident had been caused by car or driver error, he'd have got up and walked away. It's all about the 800g steel thing hitting his helmet at who-knows-what closing speed (since the spring itself was moving backward relative to the car, the actual impact speed will have been higher than 162mph. Even at 162mph, that would have put ~755kJ into his helmet & head, or enough energy to run a 60W electric light bulb for 3½ hours).

If he's not no brain injury, that can only be a good thing, but we won't know anything for certain until they wake him up.

ioan

26th July 2009, 16:58

It's not the impact with the wall that's the real trouble - if that part of the accident had been caused by car or driver error, he'd have got up and walked away. It's all about the 800g steel thing hitting his helmet at who-knows-what closing speed (since the spring itself was moving backward relative to the car, the actual impact speed will have been higher than 162mph. Even at 162mph, that would have put ~755kJ into his helmet & head, or enough energy to run a 60W electric light bulb for 3½ hours).

If he's not no brain injury, that can only be a good thing, but we won't know anything for certain until they wake him up.

The doctors say he has not suffered any neurological damages at all, I hope they are right.

PS: The spring could not have been traveling in opposite direction, it fell of a car that was traveling in the same direction as Massa was thus due to inertia it was traveling in the same direction. Still the impact at 162 mph was more than enough to knock him off instantly.

call_me_andrew

26th July 2009, 22:43

The brakes were not at 100%, his foot gently rested on the brakes because he was unconscious.

You don't leave skidmarks by riding the brakes.

woody2goody

26th July 2009, 23:21

You don't leave skidmarks by riding the brakes.

I'm sure the skid marks are from the car bouncing along on the run-off area.

christophulus

27th July 2009, 09:48

Felipe Massa's condition is improving and doctors at the Budapest hospital where he is have said they are reassured about the progress he is making.

The Ferrari driver suffered a skull fracture and concussion when he crashed during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix. The accident was caused when he was hit on the head by a spring that had come off Rubens Barrichello's car.

After an emergency operation on Saturday afternoon, Massa was put in an induced coma to help his recovery - and since then he has been making good progress.

Hungarian defence ministry spokesman Istvan Bocskai said that tests carried out on Massa were 'reassuring' about his condition. He could also move his hands and his legs – which were positive signs that there was no damage to his brain.

Bocskai told Hungarian television: "He's woken up (from sedation) more and more often now and he's able to communicate actively, that is, he reacts when he's talked to. We are optimistic, in our hope a slow recovery is beginning."

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo is flying to Budapest on Monday to be with Massa, who has also had visits from F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, Barrichello and members of Ferrari including team principal Stefano Domenicali.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77367

Sounds like a long recovery ahead but he's on the right track at least.

ioan

27th July 2009, 09:50

At least the news about his situation are positive.

555-04Q2

27th July 2009, 10:49

I'm devastated for Massa. We are thinking of you mate. Hope you make a full recovery :up:

jimakos

27th July 2009, 11:10

Massa is the most unluckiest driver in the world!!
Last year he finished in last race and was happy
for the title but a few sec. later Hamilton took the title
not so right.
On Saturday a little thing hitted him and not only losed the race but
he is still in danger!!What a bad luck.
I hope him to recovery soon :up:
My best wishes!

Storm

27th July 2009, 12:33

What is most important is he recovers completely..
Good luck to you Felipe! I'm sure all racing fans are with you in these times

woody2goody

27th July 2009, 14:22

I've just thought that Hungary hasn't been a happy hunting ground for Massa.

In 2007, he finished 13th I think after an engine change or something like that.

Last year, he had victory snatched away from him with an engine failure with 2 laps to go, and then this.

The only consolation for him if he comes back is that Kubica won in Canada 2008 after his horrible crash in 07.

Psycho!

27th July 2009, 15:27

Nooo....Felipe's eye may be injured as well.... :( :(

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77379

ioan

27th July 2009, 15:46

"He has suffered some damage to the eye," said Veres. "We don't know whether he'll be able to race again."

That's very bad news. :(

I still hope it turns out OK.

V12

27th July 2009, 15:51

I admit that was my fear after seeing that graphic photo of him after the crash. It wouldn't be the first time something like this ended a drivers' career either. (Helmut Marko in the 1972 French GP was hit in the eye by a stone flicked up by a car ahead of him, he's now involved in Red Bull's motorsport activities IIRC).

Fingers crossed!

Kevincal

27th July 2009, 16:41

I'm usually not the biggest fan of doctors or hospitals, but in cases like this, they really are a godsend. Sounds like without the surgery, good chance he would have died.. :( I also have been thinking about his eye and how badly it was damaged.. Massa has the worst luck, for such a nice guy too. Barely missing the WDC and now this. Total crap.

Psycho!

27th July 2009, 17:50

However, Montitzemolo sounds rather optimistic...Let's wait for the press conference...

harvick#1

27th July 2009, 18:01

doctors rule out 09 return

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=338637&FS=F1

ioan

27th July 2009, 18:07

doctors rule out 09 return

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=338637&FS=F1

That's exactly what I expected. Being a military hospital they will certainly have good expertise on of what kinds of stress he should or should not be exposed in the near future.

christophulus

27th July 2009, 18:43

http://www.f1way.com/news/2009/July/27/massa-out-of-coma-speaks-first-words

The latest reports from the Budapest hospital AEK about the condition of recovering Ferrari driver Felipe Massa are very positive.

It is said that the Brazilian, seriously injured when flying debris struck the front of his helmet during Hungarian GP qualifying last Saturday, has been woken from his induced coma and will not be put to sleep again.

Another scan on Monday afternoon showed that the 28-year-old's brain swelling had subsided, moving the medical team to wake him up and withdraw the artificial breathing.

Massa is said to now be conscious and has spoken his first words since the crash. A full recovery is now expected, with the biggest concern now being the condition of his damaged left eye.

There were reports on Monday that Massa's optic nerve behind his left eye had been damaged to an unspecified degree.

It is however believed that his personal doctor Dino Altmann will not now push for the transfer from Hungary to Paris, given Monday afternoon's positive news indicates a far shorter hospitalisation.

Good news I hope!

ioan

27th July 2009, 18:46

Better news indeed. :)

If there is a problem with the optical nerve I hope they won't move him anyway for the time being, this may make the difference between the eye healing wellor not.

ioan

27th July 2009, 19:37

Apparently the situation is better than expected and the left eye can't be commented on because it can't be analyzed yet.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77383

Sonic

27th July 2009, 20:24

The most pleasing thing from the latest report is that he is awake and talking. asking questions. So hopefully he is on the mend.

F1boat

27th July 2009, 21:03

First, I hope that he is OK. The rest - after I am sure that he is OK. Fingers crossed!

Robinho

27th July 2009, 21:59

the news is getting better - at this time i care not if he is able to make it back to F1, only that he is safe and well, anything over that is a bonus - get well soon Felipe, it seems you are in very good hands

tkg26 96789

27th July 2009, 22:42

in relation to Cristiano Dematta's head injury, how bad is Massa's?

Helicon_One

27th July 2009, 23:07

in relation to Cristiano Dematta's head injury, how bad is Massa's?

Wasn't Christiano unconscious for several weeks after his accident?

ClarkFan

27th July 2009, 23:22

Wasn't Christiano unconscious for several weeks after his accident?
Don't recall if it was that long, but it was sigificantly longer than 2 days.

ClarkFan

ioan

28th July 2009, 00:04

Wasn't Christiano unconscious for several weeks after his accident?

Weeks or months, anyway for a long period.

gloomyDAY

28th July 2009, 00:16

I hope Michael comes back and takes a dump on the new kids.
I'm not a fan of Mike, but sure would be fun to watch!

Also, I'm glad to hear Massa's prognosis.
Let's just see if he can make it back into his car.

ioan

28th July 2009, 00:21

First let's hope he'll be 100% healthy again, than he'll decide what he does next.

gloomyDAY

28th July 2009, 00:26

First let's hope he'll be 100% healthy again, than he'll decide what he does next.Who do you think will replace Massa?

I want to see Mike but that's probably a long shot.
Maybe someone from the feeder series' can driver for the scarlets.

woody2goody

28th July 2009, 00:34

Who do you think will replace Massa?

I want to see Mike but that's probably a long shot.
Maybe someone from the feeder series' can driver for the scarlets.

There's a thread about that somewhere :)

I agree with your idea. Michael would be extremely fun to see back and beating on Raikkonen.

Valve Bounce

28th July 2009, 00:56

Here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77383

In fact, they expect a full recovery is possible. How good is that!!!!!!!!!! :)

ioan

28th July 2009, 08:58

Here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77383

In fact, they expect a full recovery is possible. How good is that!!!!!!!!!! :)

That would be great! :)

leopard

28th July 2009, 10:13

Here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77383

In fact, they expect a full recovery is possible. How good is that!!!!!!!!!! :)

We are going to find that a full recovery will be sooner than time we may expect. :)

ioan

28th July 2009, 10:55

We are going to find that a full recovery will be sooner than time we may expect. :)

A full recovery from an accident that required brain surgery can't be made in less that 3 months, and I'll say he better wait until next season and be sure rather than sorry.

555-04Q2

28th July 2009, 11:10

Here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77383

In fact, they expect a full recovery is possible. How good is that!!!!!!!!!! :)

Good news :up:

I hope he makes a full recovery and is back in F1 in 2010. I dont think we will see him racing in 2009 again and personally I would prefer he took his time and came back when he is 100% fit again.

Keep fighting Massa, your fans are behind you :)

ioan

28th July 2009, 11:47

He's expected to leave hospital in about 10 days on his feet:

Peter Bazso, the medical director of the hospital, told Hungarian TV channel M1 on Tuesday: "My expectation is that he would walk out of the hospital on his own. If his recovery continues at this pace, I wouldn't rule out that he could leave within 10 days."

Still they must remain cautious for the time being:

"I would like to point out that although he's recovering, this is not the end of the story, he is still in a life-threatening condition," Bazso said. "Of course, the danger is decreasing by the day."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77391

For now it looks like Felipe the man will be OK and this is the most important right now. :)

Valve Bounce

28th July 2009, 13:32

Massa will walk out of the hospital, and drive off in a Ferrari back to Italy to brief SchM who is taking over from him temporarily.

ioan

28th July 2009, 14:07

Massa will walk out of the hospital, and drive off in a Ferrari back to Italy to brief SchM who is taking over from him temporarily.

I'd rather have him take a plane.

Sonic

28th July 2009, 15:54

So pleased to hear he's improving quickly. Now we just need to hope his eye is undamaged.

ioan

28th July 2009, 16:36

There are rumors that the doctors had finally been able to take a close look to his left eye and it seems it's OK.

Robinho

28th July 2009, 19:07

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=46509

says here that Massa has opened his eye and confirmed he can see through it and the Dr's can see no signs of damage - hopefully that is fine, but i guess there will also be more tests to confirm.

also says he is communicating coherently with his visitors in three different languages - i think that is very good news.

finally, in terms of recovery, i think he'll be 95% percent in a very short time, but the final 5% is likely to take a lottle longer and that will be needed to satisfy the doctors he's fit to get behind the wheel - hiwever it should be noted that he has surgery on his skull fracture, not on any brain injury - there was no reported brain injury or dangerous swelling, not to say that skull surgery isn't serious, but does involve a slightly shorter recuperation, assuming no complications - i wouldn't be surprised to see him back for the end of the year, eye and will permitting

29th July 2009, 04:46

There are rumors that the doctors had finally been able to take a close look to his left eye and it seems it's OK.

If those rumours are right that is excellent news and means that he hasn't sustained a detached retina which could have happened with the force of the object that hit him. Hopefully he can (if he wants to) continue his F1 career in the future.

Roamy

29th July 2009, 07:16

well hell who knows - he has a month to heal up

Storm

29th July 2009, 07:27

Good news today about his steady recovery and no damage to eye. :up:

ArrowsFA1

29th July 2009, 08:01

Great to hear positive news about Felipe's recovery :up: Let's hope that in time he makes a full recovery and picks up where he left off when he's ready.

Garry Walker

29th July 2009, 08:15

Very positive news. It seems no permanent damage has happened physically.

ioan

29th July 2009, 13:34

Good news again:

[quote="formula1.com"]
&#8220]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/7/9700.html

Robinho

30th July 2009, 20:24

ioan

30th July 2009, 20:37

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77434

and the man himself says he wants to race in Valencia (think he's probably joking)

up and about, eating, getting ready to go home, tough little customer this one

Luckily Luca and Stefano will be there to calm him down a bit. And hopefully he also knows himself that with a damaged skull all he can achieve is take himself out of F1 forever.

Stay put Felipe your championship challenge only starts in 2010! :)

ClarkFan

30th July 2009, 20:55

A full recovery from an accident that required brain surgery can't be made in less that 3 months, and I'll say he better wait until next season and be sure rather than sorry.

Agreed - brain injuries are tricky. Better to be safe, as even the best doctors don't fully understand how the brain works.

ClarkFan

ioan

3rd August 2009, 09:49

Felipe left the hospital and Hungary this morning. He's heading back to Brazil on a private jet.

ioan

3rd August 2009, 11:55

Felipe's first interview after the accident is online now:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77532

He's a class act like always! :up:

I am evil Homer

3rd August 2009, 12:07

Yep, sure is. Glad he's on the road to recovery but takes his time to come back when he's 100%. F1 is poorer without Felipe and I wish him all the best :up:

Andrewmcm

3rd August 2009, 13:26

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/5959499/Felipe-Massa-leaves-hospital-in-Hungary.html given how he looks at present I'd suggest it'd be a while before he gets a helmet on again....

ioan

3rd August 2009, 13:47

Looking better than expected, IMO.

It's positive that in his first interview he didn't said anything along the lines of specifying that he will be back in x amount of time.

I was very unhappy with his personal doctor making all kind of over optimistic previsions while the Hungarian surgeons were pretty convinced that 2 months is the least time he will take before he can think about coming back.
Luckily it's the FIA doctors who will have to give the OK, not Dino Altmann.

I am evil Homer

3rd August 2009, 14:51

Indeed...who do you trust more a personal doctor or staff from a military hospital?!?

ioan

3rd August 2009, 15:04

Indeed...who do you trust more a personal doctor or staff from a military hospital?!?

Exactly. The personal doctor might be great to asses a flu or similar, but he has little knowledge when it come to brain injury and broken skull bones.

HenryM

3rd August 2009, 15:32

Exactly. The personal doctor might be great to asses a flu or similar, but he has little knowledge when it come to brain injury and broken skull bones.

Dino Altmann is a surgeon, medical director of the brazilian GP, he is in motor racing for 20 years, and work for many categories here in brazil

ioan

3rd August 2009, 15:43

Dino Altmann is a surgeon, medical director of the brazilian GP, he is in motor racing for 20 years, and work for many categories here in brazil

He did sound amateurish though.
His every 2nd phrase was about Felipe recovering better than Superman and coming back very soon. I don't know what his hidden agenda is about but I didn't find his words very wise.

In fact what he kept saying for 10 days is the opposite of what he said after Alonso's 2003 crash at Interlagos:

According to the Brazilian Grand Prix’s medical director, Dr. Dino Altmann, the worse case ever handled was Fernando Alonso’s brutal crash in 2003. “It was an accident of vast proportions, involving extreme deceleration speed, in a case in which the patient may not show critical fractures at first, but still requires profound examination”, says Altmann.

http://www.gpbrasil.com.br/sitegpe/noticia.asp?id=207

Anyway, I hope he was just trying to play down the case where Felipe would have to retire from F1.

Garry Walker

3rd August 2009, 17:35

Great news that he is healing so quickly. It all seemed much worse at first, but then again, with brain injuries you never know.
He is very lucky to be alive and as well as he is now.

christophulus

3rd August 2009, 18:46

Good to see Massa back on TV and sounding pretty lucid just a week or so after the accident - I'm no doctor but that seems positive.

Dzeidzei

3rd August 2009, 21:22

Just to put things into perspective: the most important thing is that his wife still has a husband and he´s able to be a father to his child.

Everything else is just extra.

woody2goody

3rd August 2009, 22:22

Good to see Massa back on TV and sounding pretty lucid just a week or so after the accident - I'm no doctor but that seems positive.

Indeed. I just hope there's no lasting damage to his eye, at least that affects his peripheral vision or general sight.

I know that his eye is just swollen at this time and I hope it returns to normal quickly. I'll say it again as I have a few times already, he should not rush back. He will lose nothing by coming back in winter testing. He could lose everything if he rushes back this season.

Seeing him in that interview, alert and in a good mood makes me so happy that he's still with us. Forza Felipe.

Knock-on

5th August 2009, 09:55

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77555

Bit of good news. Massa on his way home.

I am evil Homer

5th August 2009, 11:42

Just to put things into perspective: the most important thing is that his wife still has a husband and he´s able to be a father to his child.

Everything else is just extra.

I agree with this 100%.

savage86

6th August 2009, 14:05

ioan

6th August 2009, 14:17

The visor coming lose was certainly one of the reasons why the spring did get to directly hit his skull. If it would have stayed on than the fracture around his eye would probably not have happened and maybe he wouldn't have been knocked unconscious either as a part bigger part of the energy of the impact would have been absorbed by the helmet rather than by his bones.

I am evil Homer

6th August 2009, 15:39

Wow....very interesting piece...I'd forgotten Burti's accident and how it had affected him. The man talks a lot of sense IMO - can't see how 2 more screws would affect weight that much either

Tazio

25th August 2009, 23:54

Very very interesting artical here from Autosport

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77573

Seems that having four screws attaching the visor to the helmet rather than two could have helped Massa out.It apears Schuberth agrees!

Schuberth said Massa’s helmet, which costs around $17,000, was made of 18 layers of a special carbon fiber called T 1000. (Standard motorcycle helmets have three layers.) It has been lightened by about a third from earlier designs. According to Formula One, the typical weight of a helmet is less than three pounds. And lightness is critical not just for reducing neck fatigue, but also for reducing the load caused by g-forces during racing and in crashes. Even basic braking can add 6 g’s to the driver’s head.

There are three primary helmet suppliers in Formula One, according to the official Web site. Arai and Bell are the other two. While the manufacturers keep the details of their helmets’ composite materials a closely guarded secret, each helmet must satisfy standards set by the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile and drafted by Transport Research Laboratory, a British testing facility.

As you would expect, Formula One helmets must pass a series of rigorous tests, including impact tests, deformation and fragmentation evaluations and a compulsory fire test, whereby helmets are subjected to a flame of 1,472 degrees for 45 seconds, after which temperatures inside the helmet cannot be more than 158 degrees. Even more impressive is the standard for the visor, which must withstand projectiles that are shot at it at 310 miles an hour.

Since Massa’s accident, Schuberth has reinforced the attachment of the visor on the helmet. The spring from Barrichello’s car hit Massa’s helmet at the visor area.[/b]
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/how-felipe-massas-helmet-saved-his-life/

woody2goody

26th August 2009, 03:34

Great article.

It's interesting, because at the time I'm not even sure whether I knew Luciano had received a concussion.

I was shocked to see the picture of Burti's helmet and the the front of it had basically shattered. He's a very lucky man, and he obviously knows it, because he's putting a lot of effort into helping with the safety of other drivers.

Top man.

ioan

1st September 2009, 12:01

Expected to return for 2010, 2009 written off.

"I'm very happy with the outcome of the tests," said Massa. "After the small operation I'll undergo in the next few days, I'll finally be able to start doing gym exercise to get back in shape a bit and, after that, I'll be able to start doing some testing on karts.

"On track with an F1 car? Let's go one step at a time: now I'm focused only on starting over with physical activity, which is already a nice step forward."

"Obviously, the results of examination has been warmly welcomed in Maranello, in the sense that the team can count on Felipe 100% for the start of next season," said a Ferrari statement.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78235

Knock-on

29th September 2009, 16:59

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8278330.stm

Well, the Kart test went well and he may be back for the last race.

What do we think about that?

Robinho

29th September 2009, 19:16

i've had a feeling there must be some very positive news coming abuot his recovery or there would be no way that Ferrari would be ready to announce Alonso and bin off Kimi. if there were any doubts that he'd be fully fit and therefore unable to race next year (or before) i would not belive they'd take the risk of losing Kimi already.

i hope he is as well as he sounds, playing in Karts, no problems with his helmet, no adverse effects, sounds good, i think there is a pretty good chance of him turning up for a run out this year, just to bring up morale for him and the team.

ioan

29th September 2009, 19:22

Great news about his recovery, still I think he shouldn't come back to drive a F1 car before January.

Robinho

29th September 2009, 19:24

they won't let him back if he's not ready, if he is ready i don't think they'll be able to stop him

DexDexter

29th September 2009, 19:33

Good news, let's hope he comes back better than ever. :up:

UltimateDanGTR

29th September 2009, 19:41

good news. He reported no problems, so a return looks very much a certainty for next year. hopefully he will be better than ever, because F1 will be better for that........

Sonic

29th September 2009, 22:12

Great news about his recovery, still I think he shouldn't come back to drive a F1 car before January.

I'd agree with that. Glad to hear he's still improving. :)

Giuseppe F1

29th September 2009, 23:29

First pic of Massa testing his kart since his accident - great to see:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TYJrB8ZJQ8A/SsJJrmfL3QI/AAAAAAAAGxY/utgdfTzSu1s/s1600-h/Massakart1.jpg

555-04Q2

30th September 2009, 06:24

First pic of Massa testing his kart since his accident - great to see:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TYJrB8ZJQ8A/SsJJrmfL3QI/AAAAAAAAGxY/utgdfTzSu1s/s1600-h/Massakart1.jpg

Go boy go! We miss you mon! Cant wait for 2010 to see you in action again!

HenryM

30th September 2009, 08:50

http://esporte.ig.com.br/grandepremio/images/329/78/78/6826454.felipe_massa_granja_viana_grande_premio_50 0_418.jpg

http://esporte.ig.com.br/grandepremio/images/332/81/81/6826457.felipe_massa_granja_viana_grande_premio_32 0_498.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nr3G01NCY

ArrowsFA1

30th September 2009, 09:35

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8278330.stm

Well, the Kart test went well and he may be back for the last race.

What do we think about that?
Good to see Felipe karting again :up: but...there's no rush. It's best that he's 100% before coming back to F1 and if there's any doubt then he should wait.

The only pressure to race this season I can think of, other than Felipe's simple desire to get racing again, may be that Ferrari want to know for sure whether he will be racing in 2010. While there may be little doubt that he will, and Stefano Domenicali is clearly being cautious, I hope Felipe isn't put in the position of feeling he has to race this year.