Toro Rosso

[Ranger]

Why did Red Bull give them the Silverstone-spec upgrade?

Did RBR not learn from last year? Now they are only going to dent their own title ambitions.

Practice 3 is the case in point.

[Tazio]

I think the deal was struck before the start of the season that they would get the R.B. upgrade for the second half of the season!!

[ioan]

Why did Red Bull give them the Silverstone-spec upgrade?

Did RBR not learn from last year? Now they are only going to dent their own title ambitions.

Practice 3 is the case in point.

Are you kidding me?!
There will be no such thing as a STR finishing in front of a RBR this season, unless the RBR's are not going to be in the points or some other situation that might yield more advantage to RBR than to BrawnGP.

Giving the updates to STR they did exactly what they had to do, enable STR to fight the BrawnGPs and take points off of them.

A good move IMO, and it might play a big role in the outcome of the championship.

[ioan]

I think the deal was struck before the start of the season that they would get the R.B. upgrade for the second half of the season!!

Deal???
Is there a need for a deal between 2 teams that have the same owner?!

[Tazio]

The agreement was that R.B would do all R and D and at midseason provide TR's only Chasis developement upgrade. I can't remember where I read that. But It could be a sticky wicket as they are not technically a customer chasis as per FIA regulations! And One team is not permitted to field 4 cars :mark:

[Ranger]

Are you kidding me?!
There will be no such thing as a STR finishing in front of a RBR this season, unless the RBR's are not going to be in the points or some other situation that might yield more advantage to RBR than to BrawnGP.

Giving the updates to STR they did exactly what they had to do, enable STR to fight the BrawnGPs and take points off of them.

A good move IMO, and it might play a big role in the outcome of the championship.

Are you suggesting there will be inter-team team orders?

Audi are currently under investigation in DTM for similar shenanigans, the officials take a pretty dim view of it.

There are enough teams taking points off Brawn already without RBR having to worry about STR being quicker than them.

[ioan]

Are you suggesting there will be inter-team team orders?

Yes I do.



Audi are currently under investigation in DTM for similar shenanigans, the officials take a pretty dim view of it.


Last time I checked STR and RBR were running in F1 and under F1 rules, not DTM.

DTM have rules for such situations, but F1 AFAIK doesn't have.



There are enough teams taking points off Brawn already without RBR having to worry about STR being quicker than them.

5 teams taking points of the Brawn's is better than 4.
Why lose the championship by one point if you can win it?

[ioan]

The agreement was that R.B would do all R and D and at midseason provide TR's only Chasis developement upgrade. I can't remember where I read that. But It could be a sticky wicket as they are not technically a customer chasis as per FIA regulations! And One team is not permitted to field 4 cars :mark:

In fact both the RBR and STR cars are developed by a 3rd party called Red Bull Technology!

[Ranger]

DTM have rules for such situations, but F1 AFAIK doesn't have.



There is the clause, "Bringing the sport into disrepute" which can be used however the stewards and the FIA deem fit... and that's a whole new can of worms.

And Red Bull Racing now risk having to open that can of worms if indeed STR are faster than them in the remaining eight races... which is the reasoning behind my initial point.

We shall see...

[Tazio]

In fact both the RBR and STR cars are developed by a 3rd party called Red Bull Technology! Red Bull Tecnology cannot provide four Identical Chasis. That is just a clever way to get a customer car that is always going to have to be unique in a decernable way if I understand the rules correctly!

[jens]

I don't think 2008 is going to repeat and STR will start beating RBR again. Firstly, RBR probably has learnt, how to maximize the car potential better (otherwise they obviously won't be in title fight). Secondly, Renault engine is now closer to the top than in 2008. And thirdly, I really think RBR has a significant advantage in driver line-ups, while STR is struggling with rather 'green' rookies. In '08 STR had an ace in Vettel to get the results - not the case any more.

[christophulus]

And thirdly, I really think RBR has a significant advantage in driver line-ups, while STR is struggling with rather 'green' rookies. In '08 STR had an ace in Vettel to get the results - not the case any more.

That's the key point I reckon. There is no way Buemi/Alguersuari is going to win a race or even beat the Red Bulls - but getting ahead of the Brawns when it's cold is achievable.

Besides, if the STRs were ahead there could always be a "problem" at the pit stop :rolleyes:

[jens]

So far the "plan" is working as Red Bull could have expected. ;) RBR out at the front, while Buemi's STR is already somewhere between Brawns. Don't worry about the potential threat to RBR, Malllen - if Buemi or Alguersuari won a Grand Prix on merit this year, this would be the most incredible thing I've ever seen in F1 (even more so than Brawn's early-season domination :D ).