When will the 2010 schedule be released? [Archive]

SarahFan

15th July 2009, 21:07

anyone know when it's expected?

I have a feeling it's going to be awhile..... lots unknowns regarding excisting events

for example..

Milwaukee rumored to not have paid this years sanctioning fee.... and is currently hoping a nee promoter steps in

Edmonton has been a consistant money loser since day... IC has linked articles that it lost 5mil in 2008

last weekends Toronto drew maybe 15k.... and local racefans that post on the boards say promotion was weak at best.... the city was rumored to have gauranteed loses .... but will they in 2010 based on 2009 attendance?

both Chicago and kansas are considering dropping the 'track-pack'... how much will they spend on Indycar promotion and what happens if there is little interest via early ticket sales

homestead has had weak attendance for years

richmonds Gm was verbal and about the poor racing after this years event....

this one might take awhile to sort out

thoughts?

cynisca

15th July 2009, 21:17

It will announced on or around 1 August 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_IndyCar_Series_season

cynisca

15th July 2009, 21:23

Or use that link:

http://justinggoogleit.com/

:p Don't worry, just joking.

SarahFan

15th July 2009, 21:23

It will announced on or around 1 August 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_IndyCar_Series_season

interesting link.....i put the possibilty it gets announced on Aug 1st at less than 30%

NickFalzone

15th July 2009, 21:39

Angstadt said at Watkins Glen that the schedule would come out at the end of July or early August, with 9 ovals and 9 road/streets. We already know Barber and the Brazil race have been added. 1 or 2 will likely be dropped, but which ones out of your list are tbd. Your attendance numbers may mean something to you personally, but they're speculation at best and until I hear one of those promoters actually say they're not going to pay the sanctioning fee or rumors along those lines, I'll assume they're coming back. Toronto in particular is one of the least likely to go based on Michael's involvement. And Richmond was disappointed with the racing, but that's a far shot from saying we don't plan to host the IRL in 2010.

SarahFan

15th July 2009, 23:36

Toronto in particular is one of the least likely to go based on Michael's involvement. .

last year i heard....'belle isle in particular is one of the least likely to go based on Roger's involvement'

MDS

18th July 2009, 05:13

Apparently there is more flux in the schedule than I thought. It's between 17 and 18 races and they hope to announce it at Kentucky.

Watkins Glen wants to move off of the July 4th date, probably because it wants Grand Am and the IRL on the same weekend.[/*:m:34xiqo9k]
Loudon is apparently asking for a Mid-Summer date and so it would seem like a night race at Loudon on the 4th of July would be a good fit.[/*:m:34xiqo9k]
The IRL is holding the date for Milwaukee, but unless there's a promoter to be had the series will be idle on that weekend.[/*:m:34xiqo9k]
There might be two Brazilian street races to start the year; Ribeirao Preto is all but inked an negotiations are on-going for back-to-back races at Rio.[/*:m:34xiqo9k]
The only ISC track currently signed is Chicago, although Kansas is likely to keep its date. There is a good chance either or both Homestead and Richmond will be dropped from the schedule[/*:m:34xiqo9k]
Kentucky would move to Saturday night Labor Day to feed off of Riverfest, at least for 2010, and could give the spot up to Baltimore if they have another "Sellout."[/*:m:34xiqo9k]
Barber is caught up in a chicken and egg thing with the track operators not wanting to drop money on rebuilding a couple turns until they get a date and the IRL doesn't want to commit to a date until Barber starts redesign work, but this is probably going to resolve itself.[/*:m:34xiqo9k]
There's a little bit of talk about Las Vegas, and Laguna Secca. I'm a bit hopeful that Vegas could end up as the season finale.[/*:m:34xiqo9k]
There continue to be talks of street circuits just abounding everywhere. Apparently some Miami businessmen would like to bring back Bayfront Park; Baltimore is gaining steam; there's talk of a race around Foxboro stadium; Houston and Cleveland are trying to get spots on 2011, and if Kansas drops and they need another warm-weater date their odds go up.[/*:m:34xiqo9k]

Chamoo

19th July 2009, 02:05

last year i heard....'belle isle in particular is one of the least likely to go based on Roger's involvement'

I see your point Ken, however, Belle Isle was quite a different story. Toronto does not rely on the Big 3 in the way that Belle Isle did, and I don't believe there is any reason to believe Toronto won't be on the schedule this year.

Hell, it was arguably the most exciting race this season.

NickFalzone

19th July 2009, 05:15

I know it's not going to happen, but I'd like to see the IRL get back to Gateway. If the Truck series has to drop dates due to the manufacturer and other financial problems it's going through, then the IRL shoulder consider it for 2010. Great track for Indycars.

MDS

19th July 2009, 22:04

Nick, I'd like to see Gateway too.

champcarray

20th July 2009, 19:35

Foxboro stadium is connected to a shopping mall called Patriot Place. They would have to make a track layout that doesn't cut off precious access to "major fashion retailers, live and interactive entertainment, eateries, a four-star hotel, state of the art theatre and much, much more." Barf.

Needless to say, I hope New Hampshire finds its way onto the schedule instead.

gm99

27th July 2009, 20:59

Three year deal for Barber Motorsports Park, Alabama announced today: http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=14737

The rest of the 2010 schedule to be announced on Friday (July 31) during the Versus qualifying show from Kentucky.

Mark in Oshawa

28th July 2009, 06:07

Toronto wont go anywhere after this year. I think people around here have to believe in the stability of the series after losing their race for a year. That was a bit of an insult to the fans around here IMO, and that may be a factor. Also the rather different Andretti used in organzing and marketing the race here. It felt different......

SarahFan

28th July 2009, 07:05

Toronto wont go anywhere after this year. .

would you bet cold hard earned cash on that?

SarahFan

28th July 2009, 17:12

well... Saturday is the big day

Chamoo

30th July 2009, 00:29

would you bet cold hard earned cash on that?

Maybe he won't, but I've got 20 bucks saying it will be on the schedule in 2010.

Mark in Oshawa

30th July 2009, 01:06

SarahFan

31st July 2009, 18:56

interesting link.....i put the possibilty it gets announced on Aug 1st at less than 30%

it looks like it will indeed be announced today....

whole lot up in the air .....

it will interesting to see if (how!*) it evolves over the next few months...

*what they announce today will not be how it finnally looks (actually gets run)

SarahFan

31st July 2009, 18:58

Maybe he won't, but I've got 20 bucks saying it will be on the schedule in 2010.

it will be on the schedule.... whether it gets run is a different story though... IMO of coarse

SarahFan

31st July 2009, 18:59

I'd put 20 on it Ken. You think I don't know the Toronto race fan or the market? I only went to about 20 Molson Indy's. I think I understand the pitfall's Andretti made but I also think not even Mikey and his minions will be so far in the red that the race doesn't go next year. It is 2011 That will be the acid test....

lets do it mark...

$20 to our favorite charity of choice.....on whether it actually gets run or not

deal?

*interesting you stated 20 'MOLSON' indys..... thats the crux....

MDS

31st July 2009, 22:59

It's live right now actually

garyshell

31st July 2009, 23:06

Well sort of live. Right now it is just folks milling about in the room.
Gary

MDS

31st July 2009, 23:08

Well liveish at any rate. Press conferences are always like this the whole "Get everyone in a room at the top of the hour and then make them wait for everyone to be there."

Honestly, they should have done this at four, that way they could have had a lead story on the local newscasts in Kansas

jackmart

31st July 2009, 23:10

im excited, u can see the schedule but it is out of focus

NickFalzone

31st July 2009, 23:22

I'm watching it live, but they already have it printed up on Indycar.com. What a boring list. 17 events, glad they kept The Glen on the 4th, good mix of ovals and road/streets, but I expected a NH or a Cleveland, zzzzzzzzzzz:

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=14770

jackmart

31st July 2009, 23:26

yeah i wanted cleveland, 2 ohio races would be nice

NickFalzone

31st July 2009, 23:27

Worth noting that the majority of races next season are roads/streets.

MDS

31st July 2009, 23:29

In a word, underwhelming

NickFalzone

31st July 2009, 23:35

I agree it's underwhelming. There are probably a couple decent things about this schedule though that I'm noting. The main one is that the season is spread out a bit more, going from mid March to October. People were asking for a longer season and they got it. Of course, # of event should really be closer to 20, and that's my biggest disappointment. Even a happy surprise with an 18th event would have been acceptable, but this list feels a little bit weak.

DBell

1st August 2009, 00:02

I agree it's underwhelming, but did anyone really expect the schedule to be substantially different than this. Richmond and Milwaukee (sadly) are gone and Barber joins up. Brazil is only a TBA and we'll see if it comes to fruition. Sears Point and Homestead remain even though they draw little attendance and the rest is predictable. The Cleveland race was said to be a no go weeks ago and others like Laguna Seca and Road America were more wishes than real possibilities. I guess I'm not really disappointed because I didn't expect much more than this.

PA Rick

1st August 2009, 00:22

No Milwaulee, no Richmond. Add Alabama and Brazil.
It sems like they need to pay more attention to details in the press release....
"The Indy Racing League will be announced the 2010 Firestone Indy Lights, which is celebrating its 100th race this weekend, schedule in the immediate future."

MDS

1st August 2009, 06:52

I didn't expect any drastic re-alignment, but I feel like Loudon should have been on the schedule, and Terry himself suggested that ending the season at Las Vegas makes a good amount of sense.

It wouldn't take much to make the schedule a lot better. Move Motegi to April 4, give Loudon the June 7th date it wanted, and end the season with a 400 miler at Las Vegas on Sept. 18 rather than Homestead on Oct 2 and I think you have a far better year.

drewdawg727

1st August 2009, 07:39

Don't worry, at least Terry Angstadt is excited about the schedule.

Mark in Oshawa

1st August 2009, 09:29

NickFalzone

1st August 2009, 16:51

SarahFan

1st August 2009, 16:58

Apparently the folks up in New Hampshire are ticked. They wanted the IRL back on the oval, and the IRL made all sorts of excuses and didn't in the end get serious about giving them a date. Meanwhile, they keep talking about a silly street circuit around Gillette Stadium.

Boys...there is a perfectly good one mile FLAT oval that will provide a racing venue that is a tradtional style oval for the IRL. Once upon a time, that was supposed to matter.

new hamshire....Vegas.... Fontana....Michigan....Nazereth..Pheonix... gatway....Disney world...Richmond...pikes peak...nashville ,....atlanta...the mile

that's a full schedule in and of itself.....

SarahFan

1st August 2009, 17:00

Well it must come down to money one way or another on the NH deal. I can't imagine any other reason other than they think the Gillette stadium street/road circuit will pay better. Or maybe, they're afraid Loudon stands will look somewhat vacant on race day. Hard to tell, but they should be racing at Loudon, this street race sounds stupid.

I'm sure it all comes down to money......the IRL currently believes it's sanctioning fee should be multiples higher than the venues are willing to pay

Hoop-98

1st August 2009, 17:08

Man, I need their sales guys. Anyone that can convince over 90 pct of the tracks to pay multiple, (2x3x4x?) times what something is worth are dang good ;n)

rh

SarahFan

1st August 2009, 17:09

Man, I need their sales guys. Anyone that can convince over 90 pct of the tracks to pay multiple, (2x3x4x?) times what something is worth are dang good ;n)

rh

does it look like they are convincing them?

TURN3

1st August 2009, 17:17

So when is the schedule coming out?

Hoop-98

1st August 2009, 17:19

does it look like they are convincing them?

Seems they must have, they are on the schedule?

BTW: from the Wikapedia...

Meijer (pronounced /ˈmaɪ.ər/) is a regional American hypermarket chain based in Walker, Michigan. Founded in 1934 as a supermarket chain, Meijer is credited with pioneering the modern supercenter concept in 1962. About half of the company's 189 locations are located in Michigan, with additional locations in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky. The chain was ranked No. 18 on Forbes's 2008 list of "America's Largest Private Companies" and 19 in Fortune's 2008 "The 35 largest U.S. private companies". Supermarket News ranked Meijer No. 12 in the 2007 "Top 75 North American Food Retailers" based on 2006 fiscal year estimated sales of $13.2 billion. Based on 2005 revenue, Meijer is the twenty-fifth largest retailer in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meijer#cite_note-4

rh

SarahFan

1st August 2009, 17:21

Seems they must have, they are on the schedule?

rh

see post 36.....

but i suppose a street race in Brazil is an acceptable replacement for any of those

right?!

SarahFan

1st August 2009, 17:24

So when is the schedule coming out?

yesterday...

2010 ICS schedule

SU 3/14: Brazil (street, track & location TBA)
SU 3/28: St. Petersburg (1.8 street)
SU 4/11: Barber MP, Birmingham (2.38 road)
SU 4/18: Long Beach (1.968 street)
SA 5/1: Kansas (1.5 oval)
SU 5/30: Indy 500 (2.5 oval)
SA 6/12: Texas (1.5 oval) NIGHT
SU 6/20: Iowa (.875 oval)
SU 7/4: Watkins Glen (3.37 road)
SU 7/18: Toronto (1.721 street)
SU 7/25: Edmonton (1.973 airport)
SU 8/8: Mid-Ohio (2.258 road)
SU 8/22: Infineon (2.245 road)
SA 8/28: Chicagoland (1.5 oval) NIGHT

SA 9/4 or SU 9/5: (date not specified): Kentucky Speedway (1.5 oval)
SA 9/18: Motegi (1.5 oval)
SA 10/2: Homestead (1.5 oval)

Hoop-98

1st August 2009, 17:25

see post 36.....

but i suppose a street race in Brazil is an acceptable replacement for any of those

right?!

Ok so Pikes Peak? They are off the schedule because of high IRL sanctioning fees? Atlanta, then, naw if you use one bogus one like that I think I see where you are coming from.

Ken, carry on, seems to make your day, have a good one...

rh

SarahFan

1st August 2009, 17:34

Ok so Pikes Peak? They are off the schedule because of high IRL sanctioning fees? Atlanta, then, naw if you use one bogus one like that I think I see where you are coming from.

Ken, carry on, seems to make your day, have a good one...

rh

clearly there are a multitude of reasons....feel free to ignore any that dont sit well with you hoop

bootom line is the 2010 schedule is a step in the wrong direction.....you may feel otherwise

TURN3

1st August 2009, 18:26

Seems they must have, they are on the schedule?

BTW: from the Wikapedia...

Meijer (pronounced /ˈmaɪ.ər/) is a regional American hypermarket chain based in Walker, Michigan. Founded in 1934 as a supermarket chain, Meijer is credited with pioneering the modern supercenter concept in 1962. About half of the company's 189 locations are located in Michigan, with additional locations in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky. The chain was ranked No. 18 on Forbes's 2008 list of "America's Largest Private Companies" and 19 in Fortune's 2008 "The 35 largest U.S. private companies". Supermarket News ranked Meijer No. 12 in the 2007 "Top 75 North American Food Retailers" based on 2006 fiscal year estimated sales of $13.2 billion. Based on 2005 revenue, Meijer is the twenty-fifth largest retailer in the United States.

rh

In other words...what TURN3 said!

TURN3

1st August 2009, 18:31

clearly there are a multitude of reasons....feel free to ignore any that dont sit well with you hoop

bootom line is the 2010 schedule is a step in the wrong direction.....you may feel otherwise

I don't like the schedule really but it isn't a step in all the wrong directions. They have a good mix of ovals, street, and road courses. Actually (and obviously), there are less ovals next year for the first time in IRL's history. I think they could choose a few better venues on the twisty track side...get rid of mid-ohio, the glen, and sonoma until they widen the tracks and create passinig zones.

The one thing they do need to do is get rid of soooo many cookie cutter tracks. a couple would be fine but they need the flat miles like you suggest, they also need MIS.

Not sure if it has been discussed (I haven't read this thread) but I think Barber is a huge mistake...Alabama? They'll never pull down there.

NickFalzone

1st August 2009, 18:43

clearly there are a multitude of reasons....feel free to ignore any that dont sit well with you hoop

bootom line is the 2010 schedule is a step in the wrong direction.....you may feel otherwise

I wouldn't call it a step in the wrong direction. You're a doom and gloom guy, so I guess it is for you. For me, it's just a move in no direction. It could be better, and I thought it would be better, but it also could be worse. There are pros and cons to this schedule. Not a step back, not a step forward. If it honestly had one more race, like Loudon, I'd consider it a good schedule.

djparky

1st August 2009, 22:29

rather ironic that they've now got more road/street races than ovals on the schedule........so it's ever more like the wonderful CART series- but without the good cars

if they could just add in Road America, Cleveland & Milwaukee

SarahFan

1st August 2009, 22:57

Clearly opinions vary ..... But from where this fan sits a schedule without the mile the week after Indy is a step backwards...

TURN3

2nd August 2009, 00:47

Following Curt Cavin on Twitter (and he is a tool btw) but, he's posted that Bruton Smith calls the IRL's sched "stupid". I guess the reason being that it has more rc's than ovals. I don't know, what does a diversified sched of all track types hurt? Granted, this is CART light but diversity is what made CART as popular as it was.

Another note, regarding Kentucky, he said he'd spend $3M to correct the drainage problem starting in 3 weeks. I wonder if I'm eligible for a consulting fee?

elis

2nd August 2009, 20:37

The schedules fine by me, not perfect, but it never will be to appease everyones personal wants... it has variety, something for all fans, & differing challenges for drivers & crews.

Some folks out there (in the wider sense not necessarily here), whining about there being more roads than ovals are possibly the folks also whining about the 'pesky' International expansion.. therefore if they 'pretend' that Brasil isn't the season opener, maybe go paint their yard fence or something when its on... & then start their seasons couch viewing from ST Pete onwards, then the number of ovals & roads is just the same.. Simple! :D ;)

*I'm with a few others, Milwaukee, (& Cleveland) to name just 2, should be there at some point, both offer history & frequently great races.. but it is what it is & fans moaning wont change it.. just get on with enjoying what we do have :)

Or of course if you prefer, you could have the alternative of no schedule at all..

DanicaFan

2nd August 2009, 21:21

This schedule is absolutley horrible! I am purely upset with this schedule. Number one, we only get 17 races, we should have at least 18-20 races. Next, we lose 2 ovals and pick up 2 stinking road courses, not to mention one is out of the country again. I think this is terrible and they could of done a much better job by not rushing into getting this schedule out. :mad: :mad:

indycool

2nd August 2009, 21:39

Losing Richmond surprised me because I always thought it was a slow but steadily gaining market, although this year they didn't get a very good show. Milwaukee going away finally didn't surprise me at all because the State Fair Board and the promoters there have been screwing each other for 30 years and there's too many hands in the cookie jar for financial prosperity. I love the racing at that place but hate how they've screwed it up. I think Loudon will be on the 2011 schedule, though, to replace one of these two ovals.

chuck34

2nd August 2009, 22:52

I gotta say I'm sorry a few things didn't work out, but overall it's an ok sched.

I with Ken, not having the Mile the week after is a tragedy. I'd also like to see a bunch of other tracks too, but that one hurts. It looks like they have an open weekend right after Indy though, any chance the Fair Board pulls their heads out of their back sides and we still see a race?

NickFalzone

2nd August 2009, 23:57

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 01:09

I think Loudon will be on the 2011 schedule, though, to replace one of these two ovals.

the folks in Louden don't appear to be very happy with the IRl folks right about now

DanicaFan

3rd August 2009, 06:16

What no one has mentioned here is that the Indy/week off/Texas race is what Gossage has been campaigning for since I can remember, maybe 3 or 4 years now. His claim, and I guess we'll see if it rings true, is that he can really make the TMS race a big event if it's the first race that follows Indy, and he has a weekend after Indy to do a ton of local promotion. He has claimed that Milwaukee's race has put a dent in his promotional abilities post Indy. So he's very happy with this schedule.

That is about the only thing that makes sense with this schedule. They do need more time off after Indy than a week like they always have. Thats what the teams were complaining about, more time off. Indy is a tough month. Also more time off gives the Indy 500 winner more of a chance to enjoy it.

Other than that, this schedule is worthless.

elis

3rd August 2009, 11:20

>>> this schedule is worthless.

Could you be any more melodramatic? :s Seriously. :|

Oli_M

3rd August 2009, 13:19

Personally, as someone who is just getting into IRL properly, I think this schedule is a good move forward.

However, I'd still prefer it if there were (say) just 2 1.5mile ovals, 2 short tracks, 2 2+ mile and Indy, I think that would give good variety. Although I realise there are significantly more 1.5 tracks to 'choose' from.

I certainly like the idea of having four "quarters" - first quarter road, second oval, third road, fourth oval (if you see what I mean).

Now we just need to start getting drivers/teams confirmed :D

indycool

3rd August 2009, 14:44

I miss Milwaukee, too, but as I have said many times, "follow the money."

grungex

3rd August 2009, 14:48

Yeah, why worry about having good racing...

It's funny how all of your criticisms of Champ Car have become good things in the new IRL.

indycool

3rd August 2009, 15:01

Champ Car tried Milwaukee. The IRL tried Milwaukee. Neither cut it.
CART tried Gateway. The IRL tried Gateway. Neither cut it.
CART went bankrupt. CC went bankrupt. The IRL, presumably, does not wish to go bankrupt.

grungex

3rd August 2009, 17:03

I'm waiting for the IRL to announce they're going to Ansan. I'm sure you'll approve, as long as they show you the money.

And they may not be bankrupt, but they sure as heck aren't making any profit.

garyshell

3rd August 2009, 17:06

I'm waiting for the IRL to announce they're going to Ansan. I'm sure you'll approve, as long as they show you the money.

And they may not be bankrupt, but they sure as heck aren't making any profit.

Hell, I'm sure we'd almost all approve if it was a viable/profitable option. i.e. "show me the money"

Gary

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 17:07

I miss Milwaukee, too, but as I have said many times, "follow the money."

that's scary

garyshell

3rd August 2009, 17:08

And they may not be bankrupt, but they sure as heck aren't making any profit.

Which begs a question (and I am not trolling or trying to bait any conversation with this, I am truly asking): why does the sanctioning body have to make a profit? Why could it not be a "not for profit" corporation?

Gary

garyshell

3rd August 2009, 17:10

that's scary

Scary, how?

BTW I do not think Milwaukee is dead just yet. It's been declared dead before and someone has stepped in to revive it. I am witholding judgement until spring on this one.

Gary

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 17:30

Which begs a question (and I am not trolling or trying to bait any conversation with this, I am truly asking): why does the sanctioning body have to make a profit? Why could it not be a "not for profit" corporation?

Gary

I said the same thing a year ago Gary......

the teams and racers should be making the $$$, not the sanctioning body....

sure it's important to hire and compensate outstanding individuals.....but there primary function should be to regulate the series in a fashion that produces great racing at events viable for sponsors

grungex

3rd August 2009, 17:33

Which begs a question (and I am not trolling or trying to bait any conversation with this, I am truly asking): why does the sanctioning body have to make a profit? Why could it not be a "not for profit" corporation?

No real reason I can think of, other than it needs to survive. My previous post was in response to the hypocritical suggestion that "show me the money" is now preferable to having a good series of races. I guess it's all good when the IRL does it.

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 17:38

Scary, how?

BTW I do not think Milwaukee is dead just yet. It's been declared dead before and someone has stepped in to revive it. I am witholding judgement until spring on this one.

Gary

I don't think Milwaukee is dead just yet either.... but i feel a couple others are FWIW...

but to answer your question....China and frankly south america do nothing for american sponsors....

so Apex or a similar chinese company kick in millions to the league for the events.....and the league makes a few bucks...

in the mean time Boost Mobile (just an example) whose 5 million budget (again just an example) says 4 of the seventeen races are out of the country in a market(s) were not trying to reach......so instead of 5mil the sponsorship package is only worth 3 mil.....(and don't get me started on the Vs .35's).....

so now we have revolveing schedule of unstable events being telcast on an obscure TV channel and the teams are expected to find sponsorship to PAY for world class racing talent......

it's not like there isn't a precedent set here..... this road map to failure was paved by CC/CART and the IRL following in it's tail lights....

and long time CART protagonists like IC are suggesting it's the way to go...

that IMO is scary

garyshell

3rd August 2009, 17:38

No real reason I can think of, other than it needs to survive. My previous post was in response to the hypocritical suggestion that "show me the money" is now preferable to having a good series of races. I guess it's all good when the IRL does it.

It's not that one is preferred over the other, they are inextricably inter-related. You can't have a "good series of races" without the promoters and the teams being shown the money, so why do you think the two are not related? I'd love to see them run an Ansan but it's not going to happen unless it is ECONOMICALLY feasible for the teams and the promoter.

Gary

garyshell

3rd August 2009, 17:43

but to answer your question....China and frankly south america do nothing for american sponsors....

so Apex or a similar chinese company kick in millions to the league for the events.....and the league makes a few bucks...

Are the sponsors paying for eyeballs at the track or eyeballs on the tube? If it's the former your premise is correct, if it is the latter then your premise doesn't hold a drop of water. I'd be willing to bet the sponsors really don't care about eyes at the track. Or if they do, it is secondary to the eyes on the tube.

Gary

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 17:50

Are the sponsors paying for eyeballs at the track or eyeballs on the tube? If it's the former your premise is correct, if it is the latter then your premise doesn't hold a drop of water. I'd be willing to bet the sponsors really don't care about eyes at the track. Or if they do, it is secondary to the eyes on the tube.

Gary

both....

I'm sure there is value in both....more so one way or the other depending on the sponsor...

and you can discount my premise all you like...

but like i said ..... the precedent was set with CC/CART

garyshell

3rd August 2009, 18:07

both....

I'm sure there is value in both....more so one way or the other depending on the sponsor...

and you can discount my premise all you like...

but like i said ..... the precedent was set with CC/CART

I am not trying to discount your premise at all. I am just trying to figure out if there is really any value or not to overseas venues. I know some folks were saying there is no values to the sponsors. Clearly that is not the case. The question is how MUCH value.

Gary

NickFalzone

3rd August 2009, 18:10

Ken, was CART's strategy (before split) a failure? IIRC it was doing just fine with that schedule. Personally? I'd like more domestic races and stuff like Motegi airing live at 1 am does not interest me. But if the series NEEDS foreign races to stay afloat, then I'd rather see an IRL 2010 schedule that includes 3 foreign races and 14 domestic ones rather than a 2010 schedule that has zero races total. I'd also point out that F1 has done pretty well financially with Bernie's plan of going to whatever tracks pay the most. TV viewers are solid for F1 whether it's a race at Silverstone or Istanbul, and I really do think that sponsors care much more about the tv ratings than the track location. Versus getting .4's is a much bigger issue here than whether there's a race in Brazil or not.

indycool

3rd August 2009, 18:12

Regardless of who should make the most money, there MUST be a good balance. The fan must get qa good show for his. The promoter must have a good show for his. The teams need viable sponsors and purse for theirs. The sanctioning body needs to get its cash. The TV people need a good show.

When any of those are way out of balance, the entire sport is. The IRL is never going to be rich and I doubt NASCAR is what anyone would consider rich as a company. But the sanctioning body is the conduit for the rest to happen.

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 18:13

I am not trying to discount your premise at all. I am just trying to figure out if there is really any value or not to overseas venues. I know some folks were saying there is no values to the sponsors. Clearly that is not the case. The question is how MUCH value.

Gary

take this for what ever it's worth gary...

but IMO.... it's less about any single event... such as brazil or china..

and more about the fact there has nothing beenresembleing a stable schedule in AOWR since the split.... for either series...reality is it was revolveing even prior to the split, i know that

it has been a revolveing door of events......if I was a sponsor that would be scary to me..... especially when events such as Milwaukee are on such shaky ground

garyshell

3rd August 2009, 19:31

take this for what ever it's worth gary...

but IMO.... it's less about any single event... such as brazil or china..

and more about the fact there has nothing beenresembleing a stable schedule in AOWR since the split.... for either series...reality is it was revolveing even prior to the split, i know that

it has been a revolveing door of events......if I was a sponsor that would be scary to me..... especially when events such as Milwaukee are on such shaky ground

Other than NASCAR what series has not had an ever changing list of events? Again, if eyes at the track are the focus then that makes sens as being an issue. If eyes on the couch at home are the focus, the venue matters little.

Gary

indycool

3rd August 2009, 19:40

Ken doesn't understand, Gary, that if there's no money, there's no race. Even his beloved CC backed away from Ansan and China.

indycool

3rd August 2009, 19:42

Ken doesn't understand, Gary, that if there's no money, there's no race. Even his beloved CC did that in Ansan and China.

garyshell

3rd August 2009, 19:50

Ken doesn't understand, Gary, that if there's no money, there's no race. Even his beloved CC backed away from Ansan and China.

Hey, 'twas my beloved CC too. But I am not sure if they turned away because the money didn't make sense for the sponsors or the promoters and teams. That is what Ken and I are discussing.

I think it was the latter in these particular cases. I also think if it was the former, the overseas races never would have been considered in the first place.

Gary

NickFalzone

3rd August 2009, 19:53

Similar deal to Surfer's. These races not only need to pay the sanctioning fee, but go above and beyond to allow the teams to cover the significant travel and housing expenses. Australia had no problem with the fee, but the high costs for the teams etc would not have been reimbursed for that race. Brazil must be offering some big time money. And Motegi only happens because of Honda.

indycool

3rd August 2009, 20:34

Surfer's DID, in fact, pay travel expenses for the teams, largely due to a $12 million annual stipend from the Queensland government. The teams and CART were taken care of there. Same in Brazil until some mayor pulled the plug and the promoter stiffed CART. Honda takes care of the teams for Motegi. If they're going to Brazil, someone down there is paying for it.

Gary, it was probably a combination of all of your choices for which Ansan and China didn't work, and add CC to the mix.

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 20:38

Ken doesn't understand, Gary, that if there's no money, there's no race. Even his beloved CC did that in Ansan and China.

Your being rediculous ...... Go back and pull up my comments on those tracks and cc

indycool

3rd August 2009, 21:06

I didn't say you thought those were good deals, Ken. I just said CC entertained them almost past the point of no return.

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 22:49

I didn't say you thought those were good deals, Ken. I just said CC entertained them almost past the point of no return.

And now the irl is useing the same playbook

grungex

3rd August 2009, 22:58

Ding, ding, ding!

indycool

3rd August 2009, 23:08

SarahFan

3rd August 2009, 23:20

Without Honda, there'd be no Japan. Without "X" coming up with $, there'd be no Brazil. Those are financial decisions, not world-domination decisions of fighting with Bernie or whatever. Big difference.

If that allows it to sit easier with you ..... Then ok

But from where I sit reality is a bit different

*mark my words ic... 26 months from now apex/Brasil won't be mentioned anywhere surrounding the IRL .... Except by posters pointing out flaw in it all