Donkey of the Race

[wedge]

FIA stewards

[ioan]

I'm undecided between Hamilton and Sutil.

[Garry Walker]

Stewards and sutil.

[Jake Stephens]

No brainer, the stewards

[christophulus]

No major donkeys in my opinion. Hamilton and Sutil were perhaps too ambitious rather than stupid. Brawn's strategy wasn't up to much though, for a change.

[christophulus]

Barrichello too, just seen him on TV complaining about his team and the strategy calls, and the fuel rig error. He surely can't be retained for next year with that attitude?

[yodasarmpit]

Rubens for the interview he just held.

[wedge]

I'm undecided between Hamilton and Sutil.

Definitely passe manouever on Hamilton's part but Vettel has done worse on the first lap in the first few races of last year.

[5001]

Alonso for spining on the warm up lap

[rah]

Brawn for throwing the race away with their strategy.

[donKey jote]

Alonso for spinning in quali yesterday :p :

[Hawkmoon]

I don't think there was one really.

Raikkonen/Sutil was just a racing incident and Hamilton was a little unlucky to be clipped by Webber after a great start.

All-in-all I think this was a donkey-less race for a change.

[donKey jote]

Alonso for spining on the warm up lap
he apparently had a "clutch problem".... :p :
nevertheless, Alonso for setting fastest lap and finishing just behind the brawns :dozey:

[Dave B]

Hamilton and the stewards.

Boneheaded stupid move by the former, pointless penlising a racing incident by the latter.

[cynisca]

The stewards and Kimi Räikkönen.

[Garry Walker]

The stewards and Kimi Räikkönen.
For what? Being rammed by a careless idiot?

[ioan]

Barrichello too, just seen him on TV complaining about his team and the strategy calls, and the fuel rig error. He surely can't be retained for next year with that attitude?

Why not? He's saying the truth.

Do you think the strategy was right?!
Didn't the fuel rig malfunction?!

Looks to me that Rubens is right, can you refute his claims?

[ioan]

Definitely passe manouever on Hamilton's part but Vettel has done worse on the first lap in the first few races of last year.

:laugh:

Didn't you find nothing better to defend Hamy boy but bringing up Vettels rookie season?!

You ran out of bullets man, very poor argument (and this should be taken as a compliment)! :rotflmao:

[Garry Walker]

You ran out of bullets man, very poor argument (and this should be taken as a compliment)! :rotflmao:
Are you saying he is shooting blanks?

[christophulus]

Why not? He's saying the truth.

Do you think the strategy was right?!
Didn't the fuel rig malfunction?!

Looks to me that Rubens is right, can you refute his claims?

I agree with what he says but it's hardly helping his case. Brawn probably are tending towards Button at the moment and a public outburst won't get Barrichello back in Brawn's good books. If anything it'll mean they give him less support, not more.

And who's going to take Barrichello on next year if he publicly complains about the team like that? They had a bad strategy call following eight consecutive good ones. And a fuel rig problem which wasn't anybody's fault.

Jordan and Williams said they wouldn't be happy with their drivers if they did something like that, so whether Rubens is right or wrong is irrelevant. You have to keep the boss happy I'm afraid, and if that means keeping quiet in public then so be it.

[cynisca]

For what? Being rammed by a careless idiot?

Adrian Sutil wasn't careless. Kimi Räikkönen had enough space to avoid him when Sutil was on track. It was a stupid move by Räikkönen. Räikkönen has a faster car than Sutil's and Räikkönen had overtake Sutil on the next corner.

[woody2goody]

You will be shocked to hear me say this, but Bourdais. He's done. Stick a fork in him for Pete's sake.

Trulli resembled a donkey today, not very quick whatsoever.

[christophulus]

Did Bourdais just break down? Heard the commentators say he'd gone off but not sure if something just broke by itself.

[ioan]

Are you saying he is shooting blanks?

More like intermittently blowing hot air through the other orifice. ;)

[Garry Walker]

Adrian Sutil wasn't careless. Kimi Räikkönen had enough space to avoid him when Sutil was on track. It was a stupid move by Räikkönen. Räikkönen has a faster car than Sutil's and Räikkönen had overtake Sutil on the next corner.

Were you drinking during the race?

Sutil rammed Kimi who was already at the edge of the track.

[ioan]

Did Bourdais just break down? Heard the commentators say he'd gone off but not sure if something just broke by itself.

Well, given that he's probably not going to race anymore it will make no difference to him anyway.

[ioan]

Were you drinking during the race?

Sutil rammed Kimi who was already at the edge of the track.

Yep!
Sutil was coming out of the pits and didn't leave enough place for a fast car that was already on the track.

[ioan]

Adrian Sutil wasn't careless. Kimi Räikkönen had enough space to avoid him when Sutil was on track. It was a stupid move by Räikkönen. Räikkönen has a faster car than Sutil's and Räikkönen had overtake Sutil on the next corner.

The car leaving the pits needs to leave enough place for those on track, it's like when you join the highway, you will not try to get on the fast lane with 60km/h while a truck is heading towards your Trabant.

[Ranger]

Hamilton, Sutil for their shenanigans and ruining otherwise promising weekends.

Barrichello for publicly slating his team. Never a good idea to publicly do so, for whatever reason.

The stewards will take the cake if they don't take the heavy-handed option and punish Sutil, because that would be pretty hypocritical.

[ioan]

Hamilton, Sutil for their shenanigans and ruining otherwise promising weekends.

Barrichello for publicly slating his team. Never a good idea to publicly do so, for whatever reason.

The stewards will take the cake if they don't take the heavy-handed option and punish Sutil, because that would be pretty hypocritical.

Given that the decision is taken after the end of the race he will probably have 25 seconds added to his time.

[cynisca]

Were you drinking during the race?

Sutil rammed Kimi who was already at the edge of the track.

No, I wasn't drinking during the race.
Räikkönen would be smarter when he let Sutil through and Räikkönen had overtake Sutil on the next corner.

[ioan]

Räikkönen would be smarter when he let Sutil through and Räikkönen had overtake Sutil on the next corner.

Why let him through? He had the right for a peace of tarmac as much or, by the rules, more than Sutil.

Also who said says he would have been able to overtake Sutil later?

[cynisca]

The car leaving the pits needs to leave enough place for those on track, it's like when you join the highway, you will not try to get on the fast lane with 60km/h while a truck is heading towards your Trabant.

Yeah, I know I've got a driving license. But they were driving side-by-side and Räikkönen was on the left side.

[cynisca]

Why let him through? He had the right for a peace of tarmac as much or, by the rules, more than Sutil.

Also who said says he would have been able to overtake Sutil later?

Nobody. But it was just smarter when he let him through.

[ShiftingGears]

Do post-race comments qualify? :p :

[Garry Walker]

No, I wasn't drinking during the race.
Räikkönen would be smarter when he let Sutil through and Räikkönen had overtake Sutil on the next corner.

You are obviously lying about the non-drinking part.

[Garry Walker]

Nobody. But it was just smarter when he let him through.

Why? Because you like Sutil more?
Why should one lift off when he is already a little bit in front and with momentum? find an easier sport to follow.

[ioan]

Yeah, I know I've got a driving license. But they were driving side-by-side and Räikkönen was on the left side.

And Sutil pushed him out of the track, so ultimately Kimi stopped going out and Sutil met with the Ferrari, by his own doing.

[cynisca]

Why? Because you like Sutil more?
Why should one lift off when he is already a little bit in front and with momentum? find an easier sport to follow.

No, I'm neutral about them. And I know what I have seen on telly and I will not find an easier sport to follow. Why? We are talking about that incident. I have my own opinion and you have your own opinion. Yes, you are right but it would just smarter by Räikkönen when he let Sutil through and overtake him on the next corner. But he ruined not only his race he ruined also Sutil's race.

[ShiftingGears]

No, I'm neutral about them. And I know what I have seen on telly and I will not find an easier sport to follow. Why? We are talking about that incident. I have my own opinion and you have your own opinion. Yes, you are right but it would just smarter by Räikkönen when he let Sutil through and overtake him on the next corner. But he ruined not only his race he ruined also Sutil's race.

Taking risks and racing for the gap is racing.

[Sleeper]

Why not? He's saying the truth.

Do you think the strategy was right?!
Didn't the fuel rig malfunction?!

Looks to me that Rubens is right, can you refute his claims?
You cant blame Brawn for a fuel rig failure, they dont make them.

[Sleeper]

Trulli I'd say as he only went about as fast as a donkey.

[cynisca]

Taking risks and racing for the gap is racing.

I always take the risk when I do sports generally.

[ioan]

You cant blame Brawn for a fuel rig failure, they dont make them.

They have to make sure they function perfectly. It's not like the refueling rig was brand new and used the very first time.

For example I did blame Ferrari every time they had such problems even though I support them as much as possible.

[pino]

FIA stewards

:up:

[cynisca]

So, Garry Walker, I have said that Räikkönen had enough space, I admit that I was wrong at that point because he was almost off track. But it has still been a stupid move by Räikkönen. He had let Sutil through and had overtake him on the next corner. That's just a thing of intelligence.

Here's a video of that incident.
http://www.spox.com/de/sport/formel1/saison2009/deutschland-gp/video-deutschland-gp-rennen-webber-siegt-red-bull-doppelsieg.html?bctid=29186060001


Why? Because you like Sutil more?
Why should one lift off when he is already a little bit in front and with momentum? find an easier sport to follow.

I don't like such unqualified comments. You don't know me. I'm here to discuss with other racing fans on a quality level. I don't know how long do you follow the Formula One or motorsports in generally. I follow the Formula One since 1998 (you probably longer) and to say that I'm dumb in that sport, on an indirect way, is not correct. Just because you don't like my point of view? This should not an insult to you but I feel me personally attacked by such comments.

[jas123f1]

Donkey or not - but Sutil's :dozey: mistake means lot to his team.. I hope Force India get some points in the future - they deserve it, and it was so close today.. sad, sad ..
I understand if Rubens was a bit disappointed – I don’t think he loosed the race but probably against his team mate – but he’s Brazilian temperament usually comes down as quick it goes up. :)

[markabilly]

As to donkeys, when the race was over, ole Rubens was certainly braying loud enough to be the whiner winner

[ioan]

Have to say Lewy wasn't at fault in that first turn, he was unlucky that Webber cut his rear tire otherwise he would have been leading the field out of turn 1.

[Ari]

Rubens and the Stewards.

[SGWilko]

it's like when you join the highway, you will not try to get on the fast lane with 60km/h while a truck is heading towards your Trabant.

Wanna bet - come over to Blighty and watch all the dweebs, d**k heads and morons on our roads.

[SGWilko]

And Sutil pushed him out of the track, so ultimately Kimi stopped going out and Sutil met with the Ferrari, by his own doing.

Excuse me while I interrupt myself...... but unless I am very much misteken, Sutil was racing - racing, as in, he was racing - for position. Now, when you are racing, you do not just bend over and take it up the tailpipe, do you?

I seem to recall, Indy 2005. WIth just two competetive cars on the track - the Ferrari drivers had a contretempts as one exited the pits........

It was a racing incident - both agreed as such - and so did the Stewards.

[Sleeper]

They have to make sure they function perfectly. It's not like the refueling rig was brand new and used the very first time.

For example I did blame Ferrari every time they had such problems even though I support them as much as possible.
The teams arent aloud to do much more than opperate the fuel rigs, they certainly cant start opening them up over the weekend to make sure everything is in order. Fuel rig failures have been such a reguler accurance over the last decade or so that it seems obvious to me that they dont know when they are goign to go until they do. You seem to not make a distinction between spirit of the rules and the letter when it comes to driving standards so why cant you realise that the teams have few options when it comes to fuel rigs and when they fail?

[ioan]

The teams arent aloud to do much more than opperate the fuel rigs, they certainly cant start opening them up over the weekend to make sure everything is in order.

They need to test that fuel rig right before the car is called in and make sure it works perfectly.


Fuel rig failures have been such a reguler accurance over the last decade or so that it seems obvious to me that they dont know when they are goign to go until they do.

Regular occurrence?!

How regular? Like once every 5 races there is one problem? That means 1 problem to 5x20x2=200 refueling procedures? Something like 0.5%?!
You call that regular occurrence?!

[ioan]

Perhaps the fuel rig issue during the race was the first instance of mechanical failure.. They may have tested it but there is always a chance that it may fail on the next use. I use a CNC machine as part of my job and it fails occassionally even when it has been working fine previously, so this is a possibilty surely???

Are you just comparing the complexity of a CNC machine with that of a refueling nozzle?!

The nozzle is a fairly simple mechanism and usually the only problem that happened it was that it got stuck because after to much usage the parts were eroded (can't find the right word right now) and the tolerances were to big. I think that until a couple of years ago it was often traced back to the teams overusing the nozzles and/or making maintenance mistakes.

Anyway I'm sure that the nozzle issue was not something orchestrated by Brawn but a failure due to misuse of said refueling rig.

BTW, it isn't normal at all that your CNC machine fails every now and then. Ask the producer to service it properly.

[ioan]

Excuse me while I interrupt myself...... but unless I am very much misteken, Sutil was racing - racing, as in, he was racing - for position. Now, when you are racing, you do not just bend over and take it up the tailpipe, do you?

No, but you might consider leaving enough place for the guy who is racing you cause if he doesn't chicken out you might have Sutil's fate!

[christophulus]

A refuelling rig failure is probably as common as one of those hubcaps not going on correctly. The sooner we are rid of both the better it'll be!

[Dave B]

They need to test that fuel rig right before the car is called in and make sure it works perfectly.
Actually, in practice the cars are refuelled with gravity-fed rigs (a funnel and a can to you and me), it's only during qually and the race the rigs are used. The teams don't get an opportunity to test them in the traditional sense, and trust in Intertechnique to provide working equipment. If there's a failure of the pump, or of the mechanism on the car, there's pretty much bog all the teams can do other than switch to the reserve pump which of course is already pre-programmed to deliver a set amount of fuel.

All this "why didn't they switch Rubens' fuel load?" nonsense is impossible. The moment the rig failed, Rubens' race was screwed. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with some peoples' conspiracy theories but there you go.

[ioan]

Actually, in practice the cars are refuelled with gravity-fed rigs (a funnel and a can to you and me), it's only during qually and the race the rigs are used. The teams don't get an opportunity to test them in the traditional sense, and trust in Intertechnique to provide working equipment.

This part I don't agree with. Who stops them to have a back-up fuel tank in order to test the fuel rig a couple of minutes before the pit stop?

In fact I remember Ferrari doing just that during races a couple of years ago, in order to make sure the nozzle is working properly when the car arrives in the pits.

[Dave B]

This part I don't agree with. Who stops them to have a back-up fuel tank in order to test the fuel rig a couple of minutes before the pit stop?

Test them in what, exactly? The rigs only feed when correctly mated to a car. Should one of the mechanics wheel a Nissan Micra from the car park? Anyway, such is the unpredictability of a failure that just because something works in a test doesn't mean it won't fail two minutes later.

[Tazio]

Test them in what, exactly? The rigs only feed when correctly mated to a car. Should one of the mechanics wheel a Nissan Micra from the car park? Anyway, such is the unpredictability of a failure that just because something works in a test doesn't mean it won't fail two minutes later.I thought that the Intertechnique units had a coupling on it to test transfer fuel, or just empty an incorrect setting!

[ioan]

I thought that the Intertechnique units had a coupling on it to test transfer fuel, or just empty an incorrect setting!

Ofcourse they do have such systems, there is no such thing that only a car has the right to be fitted with a system that can accept a fuel nozzle.

[Sonic]

Lewy = moron! The only two times he's had a chance at a half decent result and the dude blows it. HAHAHAHAHA! :D

[Tazio]

only two times he's had a chance at a half decent result and the dude blows it. HAHAHAHAHA! A bit of bad luck as he apparently caused a lot of damage for what seemed like a relatively minor hit!
Hamilton finished the race 18th and it was later discovered that the MP4-24 suffered damaged to the upper floor and brake duct making progress from the back of the pack impossible

[Sonic]

A bit of bad luck as he apparently caused a lot of damage for what seemed like a relatively minor hit!

Karma man. :D

[DexDexter]

Donkey of the race was obviously good old Rubinho for what he said AFTER the race.

[stevie_gerrard]

Stewards really, had a bit of a bad day all in all.

[jens]

Hmm... I don't know, maybe Bourdais for doing nothing to impress in his very last race in F1. Before quali I was almost sure he will finish the quali-session last and well - so he did.


Trulli I'd say as he only went about as fast as a donkey.

?

Trulli had to change front wing early in the race after getting hit in Turn1. That's why he dropped to the back.

[pino]

Trulli I'd say as he only went about as fast as a donkey.

Trulli was 2nd fastest on a lap with 1'33''655 (lap52) ahead of Webber 1'34''004 and behind Alonso 1'33''366 who was the fastest. So not bad for a donkey ;)

[Sleeper]

Hmm... I don't know, maybe Bourdais for doing nothing to impress in his very last race in F1. Before quali I was almost sure he will finish the quali-session last and well - so he did.



?

Trulli had to change front wing early in the race after getting hit in Turn1. That's why he dropped to the back.

Really? The cameras completely missed that. Still, how did he brake his wing?

[jens]

Really? The cameras completely missed that. Still, how did he brake his wing?

Haven't seen a reply, so no idea, "how". :p :

[Garry Walker]

So, Garry Walker, I have said that Räikkönen had enough space, I admit that I was wrong at that point because he was almost off track. But it has still been a stupid move by Räikkönen. He had let Sutil through and had overtake him on the next corner. That's just a thing of intelligence.

Do entertain me and say how he would have gotten past Sutil at the next corner which is not a place where you can overtake? Especially, as he would have lost all momentum he had over Sutil?
Letting someone through in f1? Are you for real?
Kimi was already past Sutil, but Sutil lost his head and drove into Kimi like the fool he is.



I don't like such unqualified comments. You don't know me. I'm here to discuss with other racing fans on a quality level. I don't know how long do you follow the Formula One or motorsports in generally. I follow the Formula One since 1998 (you probably longer) and to say that I'm dumb in that sport, on an indirect way, is not correct. Just because you don't like my point of view? This should not an insult to you but I feel me personally attacked by such comments. If you are waiting for me to apologize for "offending" you, you will have to wait for a long time. You argued for a foolish case and I made sure you will not get away posting such drivel.

[cynisca]

Do entertain me and say how he would have gotten past Sutil at the next corner which is not a place where you can overtake? Especially, as he would have lost all momentum he had over Sutil?
Letting someone through in f1? Are you for real?
Kimi was already past Sutil, but Sutil lost his head and drove into Kimi like the fool he is.

If you are waiting for me to apologize for "offending" you, you will have to wait for a long time. You argued for a foolish case and I made sure you will not get away posting such drivel.

I don't wait till your apologize. I have better things to do. I just said my opinion about that incident and not more. WOW...you need a long time to post a reply. I think you are a **** and a not good poster. Get a life. This conversation is finished because I discuss only with quality posters.

[Allyc85]

I don't wait till your apologize. I have better things to do. I just said my opinion about that incident and not more. WOW...you need a long time to post a reply. I think you are a **** and a not good poster. Get a life. This conversation is finished because I discuss only with quality posters.

PMSL thats hilarious, get a life!!

[cynisca]

PMSL thats hilarious, get a life!!

I've got a life.

[Garry Walker]

I don't wait till your apologize. I have better things to do. I just said my opinion about that incident and not moreAn opinion that was not supported by reality and one that was destroyed by me.



WOW...you need a long time to post a reply. I think you are a **** and a not good poster. Get a life. You reply to my post in like 30 minutes and you suggest I need to get a life. This arguing with teenagers really is funny.


This conversation is finished because I discuss only with quality posters.
:rotflmao: But they, having seen your posts in this thread, will not bother discussing with you :D

[ioan]

Really? The cameras completely missed that. Still, how did he brake his wing?

He probably ran into someone, again .