Daytona 500 Thread

[djarumdudley]

it was a geat race until the demo derby began around 50 to go. reminded me of a 500 from the 80s or early 90s. ridiculous finish, though amazing job by Harvick to get up there. my heart goes out to Mark Martin, really thought he had it won. my question is if that last lap wreck happpened off turn two instead of turn four would Nascar have thrown the caution?

nevertheless an amazing race. great move by Harvick to win, great run by David Gilliland despite getting involved in the wreck. Mike Wallace fourth amazing, and i'm sure nobody had David Ragan pegged for a top five(even if wreck assisted). he did keep it clean the entire race. too bad for Kurt Busch, he had been doing the best driving to get the victory.

[dwboogityfan]

Horrible last lap wreck, particularly for Bowyer and Sterling Marlin - who hit the pit wall a ton. Just pray everyone is okay.
Tonys wreck was eerily similar to Dale Sr's.
Positive was a great run for #09 team of Mike Wallace. For such an independent team that was fantastic.

[blakebeatty]

The fact that they could have thrown the caution and decided the winner, but instead let them race was a beautiful thing. felt bad for mark, but equally happy for happy

[harvick#1]

Nascar would've easily thrown the caution if it was off turn two.

but since it was off turn 4 and only 4 guys got through the wreck, everyone else still knew they had to slow down not to get involved in the wreck.

[harvick#1]

it was amazing what the Daytona 500 will do. this was one of the most memorable finishes since the 02 race when Sterling tugged hiw fender under the red flag

[CREWDAWG]

Someone call Daytona PD quick...There was a theft at the finish of the Daytona 500!

[djarumdudley]

it's amazing Nascar's yellow falg inconsistency in the final lap. they should just change the rule to once the white flag flies it's race back to the checkered. it would eliminate all of this possible controversy while still providing excitement to the end.

[call_me_andrew]

it's amazing Nascar's yellow falg inconsistency in the final lap. they should just change the rule to once the white flag flies it's race back to the checkered. it would eliminate all of this possible controversy while still providing excitement to the end.

But that's exactly what they tried to do. They know that if they throw the yellow that close to the finish, then there will just be a sh!t storm when everyone bitches about how the race "should have ended". So instead, they just let all the cars wreck, put some driver's lives in danger, and let all the rednecks go "ooh, aaah".

[harvick#1]

if they froze the field, then who would've won, Harvick and Martin were deadlocked side by side when the carnage happened.

[harvick#1]

http://i.a.cnn.net/nascar/2007/news/headlines/cup/02/18/daytona.500.results.ap/KH.News.Center.jpghttp://i.a.cnn.net/nascar/2007/news/headlines/cup/02/18/daytona.500.results.ap/KH.News.Cent

:D

[DonnieDarco]

By a nose :D

[harvick#1]

I don't think I can take much more of this :D

first it was Atlanta in 01 when he nipped Jeffy by a hair, then the Brickyard, then Watkins Glen. Now Daytona.

The finish was the exact same feeling it was when Earnhardt went from 16 to 1st in 4 laps to win Talladega in 2000. Harvick I got to say one up the man with that win, going from 30th to 1st in 20 laps and 6th to 1st on the final half lap :D

[djarumdudley]

But that's exactly what they tried to do. They know that if they throw the yellow that close to the finish, then there will just be a sh!t storm when everyone bitches about how the race "should have ended". So instead, they just let all the cars wreck, put some driver's lives in danger, and let all the rednecks go "ooh, aaah".

at least we wouldn't be dealing with why didn't/did they throw the caution on the last lap. what if Martin and Harvick(1st & 2nd) wrecked off turn four instead of Busch and Kenseth(3rd & 4th)? would a caution come out? who would be the winner? would the leader though spinning backwards be declared the winner even though he he hit that scoring loop first while the seventh place guy came through unscathed across the start/finish line. Nascar needs to let the last lap whether proper or GWC just go.

[BenRoethig]

But that's exactly what they tried to do. They know that if they throw the yellow that close to the finish, then there will just be a sh!t storm when everyone bitches about how the race "should have ended". So instead, they just let all the cars wreck, put some driver's lives in danger, and let all the rednecks go "ooh, aaah".

If they would have thrown the caution the wreck would have played out exactly as it did. The wreck already happened and those still in it had clear track to the finish line.

[race aficionado]

I'm a newbie that has jumped into this sport because of my man Juan.

I can only wish that my f1 forum friends that think Nascar is a bunch of jockers going around in circles could have witnessed this one.

Also, seeing those cars go at that speed and all bunched together jousting for position takes some balls and talent.

This was a very exciting race and my man Juan, I'm sure, learned a whole bunch on this one.

Next week is the next one, right?

cool!!!

:s mokin:

[DonnieDarco]

I agree Race, you gotta have the cojones (sp?) to compete in Nascar ;) :D

[f1rocks]

I'm a newbie that has jumped into this sport because of my man Juan.

I can only wish that my f1 forum friends that think Nascar is a bunch of jockers going around in circles could have witnessed this one.

Also, seeing those cars go at that speed and all bunched together jousting for position takes some balls and talent.

This was a very exciting race and my man Juan, I'm sure, learned a whole bunch on this one.

Next week is the next one, right?

cool!!!

:s mokin:


Hi Race. This is your old rival friend from F1 forum ( :) ) f1rocks. I saw my very first NASCAR race on FOX today just because of all the hype abput Daytona. Guess who I was supporting. It was Montoya. I never thought that day would ever happen. But I was truly impressed with him.

In fact he was doing really well with 40 to go. Then his team messed up his pit stop and somehow he lost a lap. Then he got the lap back but it was too late to charge thru for the win. It was a great last 50 laps. And good fun to see JPM coming thru the field.

I must admit that being an F1 fan I probly would never have watched a Nascar race had it not been for Montoya (or some other F1 driver) in it. The best thing is that we have another race next week. I love that...Unlike F1 where we just have 17 races a year...:d

[race aficionado]

Hi Race. This is your old rival friend from F1 forum ( :) ) f1rocks. I saw my very first NASCAR race on FOX today just because of all the hype abput Daytona. Guess who I was supporting. It was Montoya. I never thought that day would ever happen. But I was truly impressed with him.

In fact he was doing really well with 40 to go. Then his team messed up his pit stop and somehow he lost a lap. Then he got the lap back but it was too late to charge thru for the win. It was a great last 50 laps. And good fun to see JPM coming thru the field.

I must admit that being an F1 fan I probly would never have watched a Nascar race had it not been for Montoya (or some other F1 driver) in it. The best thing is that we have another race next week. I love that...Unlike F1 where we just have 17 races a year...:d

Hey F1rocks. :)
I really enjoyed your post :up: kudos to good racing and let's hope for some great F1 and Nascar experiences n the months to come.
thanks again.

race
:s mokin:

[harvick#1]

poor mikey is still in the - points heading into next week :p :

[call_me_andrew]

at least we wouldn't be dealing with why didn't/did they throw the caution on the last lap. what if Martin and Harvick(1st & 2nd) wrecked off turn four instead of Busch and Kenseth(3rd & 4th)? would a caution come out? who would be the winner? would the leader though spinning backwards be declared the winner even though he he hit that scoring loop first while the seventh place guy came through unscathed across the start/finish line. Nascar needs to let the last lap whether proper or GWC just go.

You've missed the point completely. The race should have ended under caution. But not the "last lap" caution. The race should have ended under the yellow that brought out the red flag. No more of this "green-white checker" crap. The winner should be the guy that can go 500 miles in the least amount of time, not who can sprint to the front in two laps.

[DonnieDarco]

F1Rocks, I NEVER thought I'd see the day! :D

[RCR29FAN]

If they would have thrown the caution the wreck would have played out exactly as it did. The wreck already happened and those still in it had clear track to the finish line.

Exactly, on the last lap they're gonna check up once they cross the finish line anyway so there's absolutely no reason not to let the front of the pack race to cross the line especially on a two mile track like Daytona and past turn four no less. It didn't hamper the emergency vehicles getting out to the scene and once the wreck was in progress there was nothing a yellow flag could have done to stop anything from happening.

A caution should not change the outcome of the race unless it is done for safety reasons. The finish line is there for a reason and fans want to see the cars race to the line on the last lap. Sure there was a point where if the caution came out Martin would have won but it wouldn't have been legit we know because Harvick outran him to the finish line and that's what the majority of fans pay to see. Heck I know when it's the other way around I don't want to see my guy win on a technicality I want to see him win the old fashioned way.

[Hoss Ghoul]

The race ended as it should have.

End of story.

[slorydn1]

Exactly, on the last lap they're gonna check up once they cross the finish line anyway so there's absolutely no reason not to let the front of the pack race to cross the line especially on a two mile track like Daytona and past turn four no less. It didn't hamper the emergency vehicles getting out to the scene and once the wreck was in progress there was nothing a yellow flag could have done to stop anything from happening.

A caution should not change the outcome of the race unless it is done for safety reasons. The finish line is there for a reason and fans want to see the cars race to the line on the last lap. Sure there was a point where if the caution came out Martin would have won but it wouldn't have been legit we know because Harvick outran him to the finish line and that's what the majority of fans pay to see. Heck I know when it's the other way around I don't want to see my guy win on a technicality I want to see him win the old fashioned way.

Amen, Brother...not to mention the fact that on Wind Tunnel tonight they showed difinitive proof that at the moment the wreck began that Harvick was in the lead, anyway...them Martin passed him then Harvick passed him back...So, in any event, the right guy won!

[f1rocks]

F1Rocks, I NEVER thought I'd see the day! :D

Hi Donnie.
I am just getting too bored to wait till Australia. But I was following Juan's lap times closely on Nascar.com. And he was really good. Especially on cold tires. I did not expect him to perform so good in his first race to be honest. Adapting from open wheel to stock cars is not easy and I do acknowledge that.

But he did not have luck today. He was racing neck and neck with Jeff Gordon till lap 160. But somehow Jeff gained 10 places during the last pitstop and Juan lost a complete lap. That messed up his race and I got disappointed.

I do admit that first 150 laps disappointed me. But the last 50 made it up completely...

I will def watch the race next Sunday and then we will see how it goes. 36 races in a season pleases me a lot. :D

[DonnieDarco]

He was really struggling with understeer most of the race, but at least he felt able to have a go at the end :D He did good, kept out of trouble, and made it to the end.

[f1rocks]

Question for the Nascar experts.

How do you guys see the actual lap times for a driver. I was in the free leaderboard applet but I could only see the lap speed in miles. I could not know the lap time in seconds. Plus I could not find out when a driver went to the pits. It never indicated that.

I still dont know when Montoya went to the pits for the last pit stop. Somehow he ended up losing a lap. Do you guys know what happened exactly.

[harvick#1]

can't help you there, I don't have trackpass or use the leaderboard from nascar.com. I only watch the race on TV

[slorydn1]

Question for the Nascar experts.

How do you guys see the actual lap times for a driver. I was in the free leaderboard applet but I could only see the lap speed in miles. I could not know the lap time in seconds. Plus I could not find out when a driver went to the pits. It never indicated that.

I still dont know when Montoya went to the pits for the last pit stop. Somehow he ended up losing a lap. Do you guys know what happened exactly.

For some reason Nascar.com likes dealing with lap speeds instead of lap times (except for qualifying then they show both) and I have never understood why...

As for following lap times or (or speeds) at a restrictor plate race it is pointless because a really crappy car could throw up a great lap time by being at the back of the pack and sucking up to the cars ahead in the draft....

As for Montoya, he got caught up in the big one at the end of the race so he couldn't have been too far back...he finished 19th and as far as I could tell he was still on the lead lap at the finish (there were 30 cars on the lead lap at the last restart).....

[DonnieDarco]

He was back in the lead lap before that final crash, he got a free pass and led a lap.

[f1rocks]

He was back in the lead lap before that final crash, he got a free pass and led a lap.

Actually he led a lap but not as the leader. He was the backmarker because his team messed up his pitstop. Although I dont know how that happened and still want to know how it occured.

But I like the Nascar rule about letting backmarkers get a lap back under yellow. I think F1 will do same way this year...Last year so many F1 races got messed up because leader had backmarkers between him and others.

[DonnieDarco]

All I know is, the leaderboard stats over at Nascar.com showed him as having led for one lap, and I know he got a free pass, I watched him take it. He got the pass for being the first car not on the lead lap when the incident occured, I think?

[RCR29FAN]

You've missed the point completely. The race should have ended under caution. But not the "last lap" caution. The race should have ended under the yellow that brought out the red flag. No more of this "green-white checker" crap. The winner should be the guy that can go 500 miles in the least amount of time, not who can sprint to the front in two laps.

No way, the reason we have the green white checker "crap" is because too many races were ending under caution and fans were getting ticked off about it including me.That's no way for a race to end.The winner should be the one that crosses the line first on the last lap not the one that just happens to be in a position when the yellow comes out.

[Bob Riebe]

You've missed the point completely. The race should have ended under caution. But not the "last lap" caution. The race should have ended under the yellow that brought out the red flag. No more of this "green-white checker" crap. The winner should be the guy that can go 500 miles in the least amount of time, not who can sprint to the front in two laps.

Will you can look at it two ways; back before all the supposed "safety rules" they would have continued circling the track at reduced speeds, including driving around the broken cars at safe speeds until the race ended.

With the pace car they merely drove around the track behind a pace car until the race ended.

Was either greatly better than this year, maybe, maybe not.
Bob

[call_me_andrew]

No way, the reason we have the green white checker "crap" is because too many races were ending under caution and fans were getting ticked off about it including me.That's no way for a race to end.The winner should be the one that crosses the line first on the last lap not the one that just happens to be in a position when the yellow comes out.

Just because you were leading when the caution came out did not mean that you would win.

Why would you just declare someone the winner when all they've done is run fast for two laps after the field bunches up?

I've been watching NASCAR for 10 years. Maybe if NASCAR didn't try "keeping costs down" the field wouldn't be so bunched up and we wouldn't need all those cautions.

[harvick#1]

Just because you were leading when the caution came out did not mean that you would win.

Why would you just declare someone the winner when all they've done is run fast for two laps after the field bunches up?

I've been watching NASCAR for 10 years. Maybe if NASCAR didn't try "keeping costs down" the field wouldn't be so bunched up and we wouldn't need all those cautions.

you didn't wath the race did you, Harvick had one of the best cars out their, at th start he went from 34th to the top 5 in 30 laps. he stayed in the top 10 for almost the whole race before overheating problems happened. he restarted 30th with 20 laps to go and passed 29 cars in 20 laps, and you say he didn't earn it

[DonnieDarco]

I liked the fact they went for it again and raced to the end, its what racing is all about. To me anyway :D

[slorydn1]

you didn't wath the race did you, Harvick had one of the best cars out their, at th start he went from 34th to the top 5 in 30 laps. he stayed in the top 10 for almost the whole race before overheating problems happened. he restarted 30th with 20 laps to go and passed 29 cars in 20 laps, and you say he didn't earn it

Actually less than 20 laps...they had a bunch of caution laps
:) :beer:

[slorydn1]

I liked the fact they went for it again and raced to the end, its what racing is all about. To me anyway :D

Amen!

[harvick#1]

can we quote that as "pulling an Earnhardt" :)

[harvick#1]

I liked the fact they went for it again and raced to the end, its what racing is all about. To me anyway :D

thats how it should be :D

[DonnieDarco]

Yep, you race 'til your wheels fall off :D

[slorydn1]

can we quote that as "pulling an Earnhardt" :)


Its funny you mentioned that. Damg75 called me to congratulate me on the race win (he's a Jeff Gordon fan, but we act like we own the teams sometimes :) )
we both said the same thing...

Apparently just as the 29 appeared in the tight camera shot on the back stretch that was focused on the leaders my brother and I thought the same thing at exactly the same time: "Where did HE come from?!?!?!?"

Keep in mind we are 900 miles apart (he's in Homestead, FL).

In October of 2000 we were watching the Winston 500 in my living room together, and when the 3 came off of 4 and moved into 3rd or 4th with 3 to go we said the same thing in unison...I'll never forget that as long as I live...

[call_me_andrew]

you didn't wath the race did you, Harvick had one of the best cars out their, at th start he went from 34th to the top 5 in 30 laps. he stayed in the top 10 for almost the whole race before overheating problems happened. he restarted 30th with 20 laps to go and passed 29 cars in 20 laps, and you say he didn't earn it

Well if you want the play by play...

Rudd dropped to the back shortly after the start. Gilligan pissed off the skipper on pit road. Then the race became "Kurt And Tony's Excellent Adventure" and featured the field thinning out until a round of pitstops pulled it back together. Then another caution came out. After that, there was always a cluster-f@<k for the lead, but then another caution would come out and the cycle would repeat. Then there's a red flag, and that brings us to what we've been talking about.

[Alexamateo]

Question for the Nascar experts.

How do you guys see the actual lap times for a driver. I was in the free leaderboard applet but I could only see the lap speed in miles. I could not know the lap time in seconds. Plus I could not find out when a driver went to the pits. It never indicated that.

I still dont know when Montoya went to the pits for the last pit stop. Somehow he ended up losing a lap. Do you guys know what happened exactly.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=2&id=2770654

He lost third gear and was probably fortunate to finish. Scroll down to find Juan's comments.

[RCR29FAN]

Just because you were leading when the caution came out did not mean that you would win.

It certainly does if the caution comes out on the last lap and the field freezes that's exactly what happens and there's no chance for any race to the line.


Why would you just declare someone the winner when all they've done is run fast for two laps after the field bunches up?

You don't "declare" anything. If they are allowed to race to the line the one that crosses first wins. If it happens on a two lap race to the finish after a caution that's the way it happens. At least that's racing.


I've been watching NASCAR for 10 years. Maybe if NASCAR didn't try "keeping costs down" the field wouldn't be so bunched up and we wouldn't need all those cautions.

The field is "bunched up" because it's restrictor plate racing, it has nothing to do with keeping costs down, it's Nascars idea of safety to keep the cars from exceeding 200 mph and flying into the stands like has happend in the past. Personally I say build higher fences and take the plates off. Better yet lower the banking, get rid of the plates and let them race like real men.

[e2mtt]

PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE ANS SMOKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

:-) My sports prediction powers have been extremely poor lately. (All my favorites keep losing)

[slorydn1]

:-) My sports prediction powers have been extremely poor lately. (All my favorites keep losing)


:) Its all good :beer:

[tassiedevilAB]

If you call that a great finish , well ask the drivers that wrecked in the last seconds of the race & one got got turned upside down, that is racing heading for the mortuary! Just think what half of you posters had typed & this racing is going to end with not one death but quite a few in just a matter of seconds,
It would be really interesting to come on the forum & hear the howling going on, tell yourselves do you really want another Dale E fatality! Ithough not!
& i heard the race over here live on MRN so this isn't some rant of a poster just reading the news & this thread!

[DonnieDarco]

Racing is by its very nature dangerous, so I'm not seeing your point. All the drivers are well aware of it, but why do you think they carry on? Because they love it.

Crashes occur at any time in a race, as we saw last night. Would you like them to just stop the race the first time it happens?

They raced to the end, which is what racing is about. Nobody here wants to see anyone get seriously hurt, thats not why we watch.

[harvick#1]

Does this mean Harvick's car passed inspection :D

look at Harv's crew member

http://www.kevinharvick.com/Gallery/Daytona500/10a.jpg

[BobbyC]

Actually he led a lap but not as the leader. He was the backmarker because his team messed up his pitstop. Although I dont know how that happened and still want to know how it occured.

But I like the Nascar rule about letting backmarkers get a lap back under yellow. I think F1 will do same way this year...Last year so many F1 races got messed up because leader had backmarkers between him and others.

They are two different rules:

1. In NASCAR, only the first backmarker, provided he does not have a "no free pass" penalty for a race infraction, earns a lap back.

2. The backmarkers race on a distinct line different from the race leaders. In Grand National division racing (a regional NASCAR-sanctiond series), the backmarkers are behind the leaders.

3. The F1 rule states cars between the leaders get the lap back.

[Osella]

Hey Bobby, long time no see! Actually in F1 no cars get the lap back, and they just keep position as they were on-track. If you look back to the Candian GP last year it really messed up the racing because all the lead-lap cars had lapped cars in between them so there was no actual racing going on, just top cars trying to pass lapped ones, which ruined a potential showdown for the top-6!

[tstran17_88]

Does this mean Harvick's car passed inspection :D

look at Harv's crew member

http://www.kevinharvick.com/Gallery/Daytona500/10a.jpg
All the confetti on the top of the car helped the #29 make height!

[Osella]

:laugh: , better just make sure no confetti additives got into the inlet manifold! ;)

[muggle not]

Nascar broke their own rule by letting them race and not throwing the caution. I am not arguing who won or lost. Harvick may actually have been in front if the caution had been thrown as it was supposed to have been.

What happens in the next race if cars are on the last lap vying for the win and a wreck occurs. Nascar had better let them race for the win and not throw the caution.

[Okeefe]

I don't really know enough about the regulations of Nascar to comment too much, but I like what Harvick did late in the race; and I like what Mark Martin didn't do after the race. I'm glad it didn't turn into an on-camera scrap between them for ratings.
Can't wait now to see what happens next race!

[harvick#1]

:laugh: , better just make sure no confetti additives got into the inlet manifold! ;)


I don't even think they could get the car refired if they tried, Harvick fried the motor during his victory celebration

[harvick#1]

Nascar broke their own rule by letting them race and not throwing the caution. I am not arguing who won or lost. Harvick may actually have been in front if the caution had been thrown as it was supposed to have been.

What happens in the next race if cars are on the last lap vying for the win and a wreck occurs. Nascar had better let them race for the win and not throw the caution.

thats why freezing the field was the dumbest thing nascar has done.

[Osella]

I don't even think they could get the car refired if they tried, Harvick fried the motor during his victory celebration

Which brings me to another point...
Assuming no wreck, and everything else proceeding as it did, could Tony Stewart have won the Daytona 500?
After his stall in his pit box he said the engine was really low on oil pressure and he was shifting gears behind the pace car to keep the oil pressure up.

Well, although it's all if's and but's, when the red flag flew the engines were shut off and the cars parked on the backstretch; this would have led to Tony's oil pressure dropping to zero (obviously!), but if he had problems with oil circulation anyway, is there not a good chance the engine would have seized, as it was being starved of oil from relatively early in the race? And quote possibly gone before then as the oil pressure would have dropped away during each pitstop and damaged the engine each time?

Could this explain his 'philosophical' attitude towards the wreck maybe..?
Perhaps he had no chance of winning really, and it was just a matter of time..

[harvick#1]

well we will never know because he got loose into turn 3 and Busch hit him and took both of them out.

[Osella]

Yeah, was just thinking about the 'what if's' today tho...

Also, watching the victory celebrations for Harvick and his crew etc...
Wouldn't you be just feeling sick if you were the head of Marketing at GMGoodwench right about now... ;)

[harvick#1]

GM Goodwrench is still a sponsor on the #29. so they must still be happy

[Lee Roy]

Hey Bobby, long time no see! Actually in F1 no cars get the lap back, and they just keep position as they were on-track. If you look back to the Candian GP last year it really messed up the racing because all the lead-lap cars had lapped cars in between them so there was no actual racing going on, just top cars trying to pass lapped ones, which ruined a potential showdown for the top-6!

If I recall, there was talk of changing the rule for F1 starting in the 2007 season. The said that during cautions (or safety car periods as they call them in F1) cars that are behind the safety car, but are ahead of the leader in the line (essentially a lap down) will be waved past the safety car and allowed to form up at the end of the line, thus ensuring that the leader starts first in the line.

[muggle not]

thats why freezing the field was the dumbest thing nascar has done.

maybe, but the fact remains that they have set a precedent and will be criticized if they rule differently the next time. Fact is, Nascar screwed up by breaking their own rules.

[Jamsyke]

If I recall, there was talk of changing the rule for F1 starting in the 2007 season. The said that during cautions (or safety car periods as they call them in F1) cars that are behind the safety car, but are ahead of the leader in the line (essentially a lap down) will be waved past the safety car and allowed to form up at the end of the line, thus ensuring that the leader starts first in the line.

It's not just lapped cars that are ahead of the leader, ANY lapped car that is ahead of ANY lead lap car gets sent around. That's the way it was worded in the press, although it seems strange. Lapped cars should drop to the back, not get a free lap (in F1, not Nascar)

[Osella]

GM Goodwrench is still a sponsor on the #29. so they must still be happy

Yeah, just try and spot them in the publicity photos ;)

[Jonesi]

BTW The official Results have been posted (Nascar.com, Jayski, etc) and as usual with yellow flag finishs, a bunch of positions have been changed from those posted a few minutes after the race. Places 10-12, 14-17, & 20-23 have all been shuffled.

[RCR29FAN]

maybe, but the fact remains that they have set a precedent and will be criticized if they rule differently the next time. Fact is, Nascar screwed up by breaking their own rules.

Nascar is King, anything it says IS the rule and they constantly tweak them to their liking. Nothing is written in stone unless they say it is and they can then change it the next day. Since none of us can get our hands on a copy of the rule book we can't even say with any certainty what is a rule and what is not. The Freeze the field rule though was instituted for safety so the emergency vehicles could get on the track to help wrecked cars and possibly to extricate drivers from wrecks.

On the last lap there is no need to freeze the field especially on a 2 mile track when a wreck happens in or after turn four. Everyone will check up and slow down after they cross the line anyway and the wreck was behind them. And it's a judgement call. If the wreck had happened in turns one or two the caution would probably have come out. But I applaud Nascar for its action in not throwing a flag that might have affected the outcome of the race when it was not necessary.

[Lee Roy]

Agree with you RCR.

[Sparky1329]

I'll http://www.boomspeed.com/rockysmom/no3.gifrd that.

[Erki]

If it was possible, the first 5 or so guys should have had caution free finish but those behind them should have been waved the caution flag. They had to race for position through all the carnage, how crazy is that?! :eek: (maybe not crazy enough for Stanton Barrett though :p )

And no, I don't blame NASCAR.

[slorydn1]

Someone keeps saying that Nascar broke their own rules by not throwing the caution....where does the rules state that the caution MUST be thrown at any given time?!?!?!? David Hoots makes the call as to when the caution flies, and if and when it does, the field is frozen at the moment of caution, which will revert back to the last scoring loop, except on the last lap, when Nascar will use every means at its disposal to determine the finishing order
to include time stamped TV images. Thats the rule. I havent seen anyone disseminate a rule stating that the caution will fly as soon as X or Y occures on the track....maybe I just don't read enough, but I havent seen
it.