The latest battle in the war

[ArrowsFA1]

The Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) has been told by the FIA that it cannot go it alone and finalise new regulations by itself unless it has the full support of non-member teams, AUTOSPORT has learned. With the eight FOTA outfits set to meet with Williams, Force India and the three new teams at the Nurburgring on Wednesday to begin discussing the plans for 2010, the FIA has made it clear that unanimous support will be required for next year's rules to change.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76766

Max has said: "As you are aware, Article 66 of the International Sporting Code states that no change can be made to the published regulations without the agreement of all confirmed entrants."

So, we have three 'groups' each with their own agenda needing to agree if there are to be any changes to the regulations - 1) current FOTA members, 2) Williams & Force India, and 3) USF1, Manor and Campos.

Essentially the "peace" that was announced (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76495) just a couple of weeks ago was meaningless. Max is still very much pulling the strings.

On the face of it getting all teams to agree before any regulation changes are made is perfectly reasonable. Democratic even. But, given that the 2010 regs were imposed on the teams by the FIA, why is unanimous agreement now required for any changes, particularly in light of the "peace deal"?

Max must be almost certain that the new teams will not accept any changes. Why would the likes of Manor/Wirth, with reports (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jun/26/formula-one-max-mosley) suggesting that Max's right-hand man Alan Donnelley has helped with their entry to F1, accept any changes?

Effectively, we have gone from Ferrari having a veto over technical regs, to teams which have never yet raced in F1 having a veto over the regulations :crazy:

[markabilly]

Max ain't dead, not yet....as the prince would say, lay out the traps in secret and let your opponents think they have won....
and now add in this

MaX may not be anywhere close to dead yet, as it seems the democracy he spoke so loving of, is not exactly how the fia operates as maX changed the process, such that it must be a cabinet and gives massive advantages to the incumbent to help maX keep his place.... :(

I been telling youse guys, unlike the rest of you, MaX been reading up on da prince :love:
Originally Posted by http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
It confirmed that the list of candidates for president may be submitted from September 11 to October 2. The document also said that an application to stand for president had to include the 'full name, position and signature' of each of the 22 candidates being put forward to form the 'cabinet'.
This core group of people must include a President of the Senate, a Deputy President for Sport, a Deputy President for Automobile Mobility and Tourism, five members of the Senate, seven vice-presidents of the FIA for Sport and seven vice-presidents of the FIA for Automobile Mobility and Tourism.
Assembling a 22-strong team ready to be so public in its support is not an insurmountable problem, but one big difficulty is that none of the individuals on one presidential hopeful's list can be present on another.
The FIA document said: "A list cannot include a candidate who is already registered on another list, on pain of ineligibility of the said candidate. Should such be the case, (and after the identification by the FIA Secretariat) the list reader must provide a replacement for the 'lost' candidate in the conditions set out in the FIA Internal Regulations."
The impact of the system is that it is almost certainly beneficial to the incumbent. So, should Mosley choose to stand again, he will likely have in place the strongest team with the most widespread support - leaving rivals with no option but to choose a team of different cabinet members who may not be anywhere near as influential.
Furthermore, if there is more than one candidate that chooses to go up against Mosley, then that could further dilute the strength of the members of each of their rival cabinets

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76759



Let me see here, looks like the way things are going....add the two together and it comes out the new FOTA really stands for F*****g Ourselves (in) The Ass :eek:

"In a more recent letter to di Montezemolo, FOTA teams were advised that the approval of the rules by the five non-member teams was vital because they were the only entries that had been fully ratified for 2010.

FOTA teams have entered on the basis of an agreement reached with the FIA last month being put in place. With those rules not yet agreed, FOTA was advised its teams could theoretically only be 'observers' in the future discussions.

Article 66 of the International Sporting Code states that: "No amendments shall be made to the Supplementary Regulations after the beginning of the period for receiving entries, unless unanimous agreement is given by all competitors already entered, or by decision of the stewards of the meeting for reasons of force majeure or safety (see Article 141)."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76766

Quite right.

The FOTA teams have not fully signed up, yet are making demands....that's not fair is it?

The non-FOTA teams have signed up, so irrespective of how many races they have competed in, they are the ones who have the upper hand.....as is only right. If I'm not a shareholder, I can't have a vote or a say in a company's direction. It's the same principle.

Looks like this governing thing isn't as easy as it looks, eh, Luca?

Good luck getting the new teams to agree to the loss of the budget cap.

[markabilly]

"the game is chess, not checkers..."

But, given that the 2010 regs were imposed on the teams by the FIA, why is unanimous agreement now required for any changes, particularly in light of the "peace deal"?

Because the rules weren't 'imposed'.

Teams hadn't signed up to the 2010 championship.....you can't impose rules on teams that aren't signed up.

Once the teams have signed up, then unanimous agreement is needed to change regulations.

Which seems fairly reasonable to me.

[ioan]

looks to me that it's a lose lose position for Max again.
If the 5 new teams agree with the FOTA teams than they win.
If they don't than FOTA takes their toys to another series and we win, while Max will only have 10 cars left for next years grid!

You're trying hard Rufus but these are your last kicks as Manor will be devoured if they try to stick up for you and they know it. ;)

[ioan]

Does anyone find it 'interesting' that Maxie did impose the 2010 rules without having the full consent of the teams and now he says that any rule change needs 100% agreement from the teams?! :rotflmao:

Someone take this guy to the madhouse.
Seriously the FOTA teams should have asked for a court ruling over his intellectual capacity and get rid of him this way.

[Sonic]

Groan! Please go back to your S&M dungeon now and leave F1 the hell alone!

[markabilly]

Does anyone find it 'interesting' that Maxie did impose the 2010 rules without having the full consent of the teams and now he says that any rule change needs 100% agreement from the teams?! :rotflmao:

Someone take this guy to the madhouse.
Seriously the FOTA teams should have asked for a court ruling over his intellectual capacity and get rid of him this way.

problem is everyday, the clock is ticking against FOTA, and come October, given this selection process, Max may remain president, and without time to put things in a proper position, line up tracks and so forth, a breakaway threat may not be much, if anything, as to 2010 and the teams compromise and play by max's rules

unless Max gets a very big pay off or unless as someone suggested a couple of years ago, someone tells Jason Bourne that max and bernie stole his memory

like it or not, maxine may be getting close to being able to say checkmate

[markabilly]

looks to me that it's a lose lose position for Max again.
If the 5 new teams agree with the FOTA teams than they win.
If they don't than FOTA takes their toys to another series and we win, while Max will only have 10 cars left for next years grid!

You're trying hard Rufus but these are your last kicks as Manor will be devoured if they try to stick up for you and they know it. ;)
Manor and williams as the only 2 teams racing in F1 next year, manor being the "max's buddies" team?
i think not.
as the clock ticks, the more likely the teams will remain in F1 and the fia, on max's terms

I just think that FOTA may be screwing themselves by continuing to play with max, time will run out, and the split threat will become empty

i pray otherwise.....but..... :confused:

If I were calling the shots at FOTA, I would already be getting contracts with key tracks (secret or otherwise), with certain types of options, perhaps even some sort of deal with that A1gp series, so come even as late as April, if things go south, I would be the 2,000 pound gorrilla.....

How could they be so stupid as to trust max and bernie without a solid backup???
Well the definition of idiot is to do the same thing over again and again, expecting different results.....

but I dream of the day when max's whore money runs out and Bernie gives interviews saying that jeff dahmer waas a good person who liked people and would be dining with bernie this evening----(of course that would be in hades)

[ArrowsFA1]

Because the rules weren't 'imposed'.

Teams hadn't signed up to the 2010 championship.....you can't impose rules on teams that aren't signed up.
No, that's very true. So Max found a way to have them all onboard. He reached an "agreement" - FOTA teams call off breakaway series (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76498)

That done, and with new teams in place very grateful to the FIA for the opportunity to be racing in F1, he plays the unanimous agreement card knowing that the chance of this being achieved is (slim to) zero.

If Max isn't imposing his rules, he's certainly stacking the deck :p :

[markabilly]

We should start a poll, or a bet, as to what will be in April.

My heart says no max, no bernie, and a race coming back to the usa....

My head says, max still FIA prez, bernie still sucking cash and not dining with jeff, FIA still running things, and the Fota teams compromise and are racing under the FIA and bernie

and the usa?? forget it

"agreement" read the prince and you will see how to use "agreements" ---for you history and poli science bufffs, you are seeing the prinicple put in play, over and over again, per my old prof who used to say "markabilly" in his old southern accent.....(hence the name i use here)

Got to take my hat off to old max...amazing!!!