German Grand Prix

[Tazio]

Might as well get this thing started!
I for one am glad to see the Nurburgring back on the calendar,especially when the alternative is Hockenheim.
With high temperatures expected in the high 50's, and low 60's, should we expect Brawn to have trouble getting heat in their tires,
and having more traction problems (compared with Red Bull)? Plus there is also a prediction of rain.
It should be a fun race :up: :burnout:

[Sonic]

The racing is better at Hok but the ring is better as a drivers track. What would Vettel give to win at home?

[gloomyDAY]

I'm ready for this one. I marked it on the calendar at the bank!

Mark may score his first win in Germany. That's my prediction.

[Sonic]

I'd like to see force india do well. They have been improving well as the season has gone on and have been knocking on the door of some points for a few race weekends. If one of them can get into Q2 we could see it happen.

As for my Williams boys; I hope this will be another good track for them. The car doesn't seem to fluctuate from track to track as much this year and the last time the downforce levels were cranked up in monaco the car ran reasonably well.

[Tazio]

Latest weather forecast for the area.
http://weather.yahoo.com/Eifel-Germany/GMXX0272/forecast.html

[harvick#1]

should be interesting with the weather, really hoping Vettel can notch a win while Button fails to score points to spice up the championship, and with the weather being cool Brawn might be in trouble again. lets hope Ferrari can get up and maybe challenge for a podium also.

but I see another RBR 1-2

[cynisca]

The Nürburgring race on the whole 22 km would be awesome. :p

I think Hermann Tilke has been ruined the Hockenheimring. The old one was more attractive.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm ready for this one. I marked it on the calendar at the bank!

Mark may score his first win in Germany. That's my prediction.

Is this your gloomy prediction? :(

[Saint Devote]

Might as well get this thing started!
I for one am glad to see the Nurburgring back on the calendar,especially when the alternative is Hockenheim.
With high temperatures expected in the high 50's, and low 60's, should we expect Brawn to have trouble getting heat in their tires,
and having more traction problems (compared with Red Bull)? Plus there is also a prediction of rain.
It should be a fun race :up: :burnout:

Well those of us like myself that remember the old Hockenheim look back with sadness at what has become of the great track. Those long high speed runs and then the stadium section wes just superb racing.

I thnk expecting Brawn to have problems is premature. There are quite a few updates for this weekend. And I am sure that dialling in Jenson's penchant for understeer will be a prime project should it be warranted.

But also remember there are far more breaking areas compared to Silverstone - and also it took a few degrees rise for the Brawn [on softs] to begin setting times equal to the leaders 3 weeks ago.

If a Red Bull victory is to be I hope it will be Mark Webber.

[Saint Devote]

The Nürburgring race on the whole 22 km would be awesome. :p

I think Hermann Tilke has been ruined the Hockenheimring. The old one was more attractive.

I was a kid at the time but got to witness the last 3 Nordschleife grands prix.

The problem these days would be the cars - I think the old N-Ring would BREAK the cars of today. The track is really very uneven, undulating and rough.

BTW - as I recall the pole position record id held by Niki lauda in the Ferrari 312t and the fastest 3 laps are held by the late Clay Regazzoni - Ferrari 312 b3 and t and Jody Scheckter in the Tyrrell - not sure whether it is the 007 and the P34 or only the former.

[Saint Devote]

I'd like to see force india do well. They have been improving well as the season has gone on and have been knocking on the door of some points for a few race weekends. If one of them can get into Q2 we could see it happen.

As for my Williams boys; I hope this will be another good track for them. The car doesn't seem to fluctuate from track to track as much this year and the last time the downforce levels were cranked up in monaco the car ran reasonably well.

It would be good to see the right Williams [Rosberg] get on the podium.

Scotland? I maintain that the new regs would suit David Coulthard. He was always in my a view a driver that would have been ideal for the cars from the 1970's to early 1980's.

[ioan]

I maintain that the new regs would suit David Coulthard. He was always in my a view a driver that would have been ideal for the cars from the 1970's to early 1980's.

DC was never more than a journeyman with a square jaw.

[Valve Bounce]

DC was never more than a journeyman with a square jaw.

This is most unkind of you, ioan. Square Jaw did have some great wins in F1. Many feel he was unfairly treated at McLaren. But that's another story.

[Saint Devote]

DC was never more than a journeyman with a square jaw.

For 5 out of 7 years Coulthard finished in the top 3 in the championship driving for Mclaren. His teammate was Mika Hakkinnen - and he was beaten by two drivers essentially - Mika and Schumi. For two years he was beaten by drivers that had one of the greatest racing cars, 1996/97 Williams and the drivers Hill and Villeneuve.

THAT is not being a "journeyman" driver in any way.

And he had to deal with the Ron Dennis factor - the favoring of a specific driver. Mika was a great champion and Ron's favorite.

If anything, David showed exceptional mental strength and is an example to all drivers especially when compared to the Alonso meltdown at Mclaren.

[Tazio]

If anything, David showed exceptional mental strength and is an example to all drivers especially when compared to the Alonso meltdown at Mclaren.
Or else he let RD make him MH's bi+ch! :arrows:

Something neither LH nor Fred would acquiesce too.

A current look at the scoreboard:

Fred 2 WDC

Spongebob 0 :)

(however I do think people tend to underate DC) ;)

[call_me_andrew]

I don't see what the attraction to the new Nurburgring is. The Nordschife is great, but the new track is the Nurburgring in name only. Hockenhiem in any ideration is superior.

[Valve Bounce]

I don't see what the attraction to the new Nurburgring is. The Nordschife is great, but the new track is the Nurburgring in name only. Hockenhiem in any ideration is superior.

So is Albert Park.

[gloomyDAY]

I don't see what the attraction to the new Nurburgring is. The Nordschife is great, but the new track is the Nurburgring in name only. Hockenhiem in any ideration is superior.I beg to differ. I love the downhill slope into the first turn. The corners are quite challenging with flowing and tight hairpins thrown into the mix. I like the Ring, both classic and modern.

[Sonic]

It would be good to see the right Williams [Rosberg] get on the podium.

Scotland? I maintain that the new regs would suit David Coulthard. He was always in my a view a driver that would have been ideal for the cars from the 1970's to early 1980's.

I disagree. DC ALWAYS moaned about a oversteering car, which is all he would have got in the 70's.

[F1boat]

Honestly I'd like to see Jenson winning ahead of Barrichello with Vettel retiring, but because cool weather is expected I think that the German will win again. Hopefully Jenson will be able to beat Mark for 2nd.

[jonv]

I fear a processional race with all the talk being about the F1 politics :(

[Ranger]

I don't see what the attraction to the new Nurburgring is. The Nordschife is great, but the new track is the Nurburgring in name only. Hockenhiem in any ideration is superior.

Old Hockenheim > New Nurburgring > New Hockenheim.

The 1984-present Nurburgring is much better than the new Hockenheim. Has great elevation changes, and a wide variety of curves which is more than can be said of the new Hockenheim, which is flat and pretty much like any other new Tilke track.

The last race at the Nurburgring was excellent.

The last race at Hockenheim would've been a complete sleeper if not for one safety car with dumb SC rules.

[Ranger]

I beg to differ. I love the downhill slope into the first turn. The corners are quite challenging with flowing and tight hairpins thrown into the mix. I like the Ring, both classic and modern.

:up:

[ioan]

Honestly I'd like to see Jenson winning ahead of Barrichello with Vettel retiring...

Why would you want the only guy who can make the championship worth more than nothing to retire?!

I never wished anyone to retire to see my favorite win, and I can't understand such rubbish wishes.

[markabilly]

Why would you want the only guy who can make the championship worth more than nothing to retire?!

.
Fear that bunsen will, sooner or later, do a Lewis screw up and no wdc for britainey :(

[wedge]

Old Hockenheim > New Nurburgring > New Hockenheim.

The 1984-present Nurburgring is much better than the new Hockenheim. Has great elevation changes, and a wide variety of curves which is more than can be said of the new Hockenheim, which is flat and pretty much like any other new Tilke track.

The last race at the Nurburgring was excellent.

The last race at Hockenheim would've been a complete sleeper if not for one safety car with dumb SC rules.


Present Nurburgring is nothing to write home about. Apart from the first couple of corners its just left right high speed corner followed by another left-right with hairpins inbetween.

The only reason the last and previous Nurburgring races were excellent was because of the Spa-like micro climate. Can you remember a good dry race because the only excitement that comes from memory was Schumi squeezing little bro Ralf into pit wall in 2003.

Before the SC interevention last year there was a terrific midfield scrap between Alonso and Kimi. Button had some great wheel to wheel moments too in past the battling with Alonso and Schumi.

[Ranger]

Present Nurburgring is nothing to write home about. Apart from the first couple of corners its just left right high speed corner followed by another left-right with hairpins inbetween.


I didn't say it was anything to write home about, I just enjoy it a lot more than the flat tarmac runoff carpark that Hockenheim has become.

[Garry Walker]

I disagree. DC ALWAYS moaned about a oversteering car, which is all he would have got in the 70's.

Don`t let facts get in the way of a fanboy dream.


Why would you want the only guy who can make the championship worth more than nothing to retire?!

I never wished anyone to retire to see my favorite win, and I can't understand such rubbish wishes.

I guess he takes as much enjoyment from Vettel fans crying and bitching as I do.

[wedge]

I didn't say it was anything to write home about, I just enjoy it a lot more than the flat tarmac runoff carpark that Hockenheim has become.

Nurburgring has a carpark style runoff.

Even with elevation changes I still find it dull. I'd easily take a flat Silverstone over the present Nurburgring.

[ioan]

I guess he takes as much enjoyment from Vettel fans crying and bitching as I do.

Nah, he just fell in love with Jenson, for whatever reason, I suppose it's the same for you! :laugh:

[Tazio]

Old Hockenheim > New Nurburgring > New Hockenheim.

The 1984-present Nurburgring is much better than the new Hockenheim. Has great elevation changes, and a wide variety of curves which is more than can be said of the new Hockenheim, which is flat and pretty much like any other new Tilke track.

The last race at the Nurburgring was excellent.

The last race at Hockenheim would've been a complete sleeper if not for one safety car with dumb SC rules.

True dat! :)

[call_me_andrew]

Hairpins are good now? I thought hairpins were Mickey Mouse?

[Tazio]

10 % C for the start of Free Practice 1 :eek:

[ozrevhead]

Now thats chilly - should be intersting if it rains

[Tazio]

Now it's raining

[leopard]

In the rain Vettel and RBR will be invulnerable

[Tazio]

Brawn has been very quiet. Mark, Vettle and Massa looking very good Track temp up to 19c oops vettle stoped on the track,

[Valve Bounce]

Does anyone have a webcast link, please?

[pino]

Does anyone have a webcast link, please?

Nope, but I can tell you that Webber is the quickest (followed by Button and Trulli) and no rain at the moment :)

[Tazio]

Does anyone have a webcast link, please?Sorry valve I was laying down! I'll send you one via pm you may need it for free prc. 2!

[Valve Bounce]

Sorry valve I was laying down! I'll send you one via pm you may need it for free prc. 2!

Thanks. Am watching the footy tonight and also the Tour in between. Might turn up for quals tomorrow.

Go Armstrong!!!!!!!!!!

[Valve Bounce]

Nope, but I can tell you that Webber is the quickest (followed by Button and Trulli) and no rain at the moment :)

Thanks

[Valve Bounce]

Nope, but I can tell you that Webber is the quickest (followed by Button and Trulli) and no rain at the moment :)

Yeah! I have the results from here: http://www.formula1.com/services/live_timing/live_timing.html

[ioan]

Webber, Button, Massa in top 3.
Vettel had to park it and Ruby has been all over the place, not only the track.

[Pitflaps]

I'm watching it but wondering why I'm bothering: as usual it will mean absolutely nothing. Without aggregating the times I wish there was some way of making Friday mean something other than set-up work for the teams.

Heidfeld's fastest as I write this, followed by Kovalainen: yeah, right.

[wedge]

I'm watching it but wondering why I'm bothering: as usual it will mean absolutely nothing. Without aggregating the times I wish there was some way of making Friday mean something other than set-up work for the teams.

Heidfeld's fastest as I write this, followed by Kovalainen: yeah, right.

It's practice session, not qualifying, therefore set up work/testing.

[Tazio]

Hamilton fastest in afternoon practice wow! :eek:

[ioan]

Hamilton fastest in afternoon practice wow! :eek:

It was only a 1 fast lap run!
Showboating for Mercedes, they do it every year in Germany. They'll be lucky to get points this Sunday. ;)

[ioan]

I'm watching it but wondering why I'm bothering: as usual it will mean absolutely nothing. Without aggregating the times I wish there was some way of making Friday mean something other than set-up work for the teams.

Heidfeld's fastest as I write this, followed by Kovalainen: yeah, right.

The qualifying is tomorrow and the races is Sunday. What else do you want?! :rolleyes:

[jens]

Scotland? I maintain that the new regs would suit David Coulthard. He was always in my a view a driver that would have been ideal for the cars from the 1970's to early 1980's.

Coulthard stayed in F1 at least for a year too long anyway, so seeing him around in 2009 would have been way too much.

[5001]

Not looking forward to this race or any other at moment until the FIA-FOTA war is sorted out. How you enjoy anything when there is doubts about its furture

[ioan]

Not looking forward to this race or any other at moment until the FIA-FOTA war is sorted out. How you enjoy anything when there is doubts about its furture

How can you post something this stupid?

And to answer your question: we are watching our favorite teams and drivers do what they do best, race! Good enough for me as I'm not looking for a heavenly peaceful environment, but for a competitive one.

[AndyL]

Hamilton fastest in afternoon practice wow! :eek:

Maybe McLaren's new floor is working!

[Big Ben]

with all this war going on I didn´t even realize that 3 weeks have gone by since the last GP. I was sure there was one more left. Or maybe it´s because it´s probably the most boring season since 2004. And thanks to mad max I´m doing my best not to expect much for the following either.

[Saint Devote]

I disagree. DC ALWAYS moaned about a oversteering car, which is all he would have got in the 70's.

I think it is unfair to compare the periods. In the 70's, the cars could be set-up exactly to a driver's preference compared to when DC was racing and how little a driver's input really is today.

Further, the cars unlike recently, required a smooth deft touch rather than the relative manhandling.

These days, even with the new regs, a car will only be as good as the designer can make it.

The cars these days are more finicky and this detracts from the racing. Overtaking in the pits IS the pits. And unlike the 70's, the driver cannot make a significant difference.

When last did we see a driver win from even the middle of the grid, passing cars along the way on the track.

Hamilton for example, is far better than driver such as Piquet and Fisichella yet passing them if stuck behind is impossible.

Which is why a driver like DC would have done well in past eras.

[Saint Devote]

Maybe McLaren's new floor is working!

Or maybe they are getting desperate and mimicking Rosberg-Williams.

[Saint Devote]

Coulthard stayed in F1 at least for a year too long anyway, so seeing him around in 2009 would have been way too much.

Why?

Nigel Mansell was 39 when he finally won a title and it was only around 3 years before that he actually was leaving the sport - it was just that Williams agreed to his terms.

[Saint Devote]

with all this war going on I didn´t even realize that 3 weeks have gone by since the last GP. I was sure there was one more left. Or maybe it´s because it´s probably the most boring season since 2004. And thanks to mad max I´m doing my best not to expect much for the following either.

I think you ought to reconsider watching f1.

This is a tremendous season. Read f1 history and discover that f1 most of the time has "boring" seasons.

Further - this is not the first of last time that f1 politics have affected the sport. Its always been like this and at times "war" does break out and the histrionics are beyond other sports.

Nothing that has happened this far is new.

Ferrari have always at time threatened a withdrawal of sorts.
The FIA [CIS] president has always been contentious.
Bernie has always been Bernie - including when he was a world champion team owner.
Max, who possesses the greatest f1 legal mind, has always been this way - even when he was a very successful racing car constructor and a successful team owner.

So, I recommend taking al this in your stride. It is in the process of being sorted out and will simmer down as the season matures.

Its called f1 and it IS extreme - thank god!!!

[Valve Bounce]

I'm watching it but wondering why I'm bothering: as usual it will mean absolutely nothing. Without aggregating the times I wish there was some way of making Friday mean something other than set-up work for the teams.

Heidfeld's fastest as I write this, followed by Kovalainen: yeah, right.

Why don't you watch the Ashes Test or the Tour de France? I'm sure you'll enjoy it more. I stayed up till 2 am watching the Tour. :up:

[Valve Bounce]

Not looking forward to this race or any other at moment until the FIA-FOTA war is sorted out. How you enjoy anything when there is doubts about its furture

Think of this as a potential disaster - like being in the centre of a nuclear blast. It's worth the spectacle but it only occurs once (for the person in the middle of it, that is). There's no future in it. :eek:

[pino]

How can you post something this stupid?



Do you really need to be so aggressive and rude each time you disagree with someone ? :s Why can't you for once...just once, accept others opinions or even better why can't you ignore a single post, is it so difficult for you ? :crazy:

[ioan]

Do you really need to be so aggressive and rude each time you disagree with someone ? :s Why can't you for once...just once, accept others opinions or even better why can't you ignore a single post, is it so difficult for you ? :crazy:

Saying the truth isn't aggressive, it's realistic. Got any problems with someone stating the truth, pino?

[Ranger]

Why?

Nigel Mansell was 39 when he finally won a title and it was only around 3 years before that he actually was leaving the sport - it was just that Williams agreed to his terms.

Mansell was making pretty poor errors in 1992 in the most dominant car of the past 20 years. His 1994-95 were a bit embarrassing IMO.

DC was making poor errors throughout last year whilst his team-mate was thrashing him in qualifying and was well in front of him in the races... which is enough of a reason to retire even before his age came into consideration.

[ShiftingGears]

Anyone care to PM me the link to the qualifying feed?

[ioan]

Stunning pace by McLaren.
When I think that 3 weeks ago they were fighting for 17th it's quite an achievement to be 1st, even if it's only FP3, they look to have gained almost 2 seconds over the whole field.

[pino]

Saying the truth isn't aggressive, it's realistic. Got any problems with someone stating the truth, pino?

ioan my problem is that, what you post it's always the truth, while what other members post/states...it's stupid. I call this arrogance, and I don't like it !

[Ranger]

Stunning pace by McLaren.
When I think that 3 weeks ago they were fighting for 17th it's quite an achievement to be 1st, even if it's only FP3, they look to have gained almost 2 seconds over the whole field.

It has to be their updates which they are only running with Hamilton.

Kovalainen, by comparison, has been in McLaren's usual rear-3rd-of-the-grid position for all three practice sessions.

[Sonic]

Perhaps we'll see a McLaren sqeeze into Q3 but I can't see that being their true pace.

On a sidenote - thank the gods that Williams are no longer running for glory on friday.

[markabilly]

ioan my problem is that, what you post it's always the truth, while what other members post/states...it's stupid. I call this arrogance, and I don't like it !
Ioan is not trying to be mean, he is just trying to demonstrate his qualifications to become a moderator.... :burnout:

[ioan]

ioan my problem is that, what you post it's always the truth, while what other members post/states...it's stupid. I call this arrogance, and I don't like it !

So you think he posted something intelligent?

BTW I think you are arrogant too, and that you are seeking to argue with me just for the sake of it.

[ioan]

Ioan is not trying to be mean, he is just trying to demonstrate his qualifications to become a moderator.... :burnout:

:laugh:
No way.
Honestly, I'd never want to be in pino's shoes! :rotflmao:

[Sonic]

Ioan is not trying to be mean, he is just trying to demonstrate his qualifications to become a moderator.... :burnout:

ROFL! :D

[Sonic]

Ah cr@p, the super slow motion camera work is back again! Drives me mad! If I want to watch cars at 3mph I wouldn't watch F1! GRRrrrr

[ioan]

Ah cr@p, the super slow motion camera work is back again! Drives me mad! If I want to watch cars at 3mph I wouldn't watch F1! GRRrrrr

Well, I love it. It gives us the possibility to see how the cars behave under stress, like when going over the kerbs, you can see how the whole thing is flexing, you can also see which chassis is more rigid etc...

It's a good thing IMO.

PS: @pino , you see I'm not calling everyone stupid when I disagree with them! :p :

[Sonic]

One day we'll find something we agree on! :p :

I take your point that once or twice its nice to see, but the German director seems to be like a dog with a bone with the slow motion shots. And it always the same car at the same corner!!!

[Sonic]

Here we go. YEAH BABY!

[Sonic]

Goodbye Sea bass. :wave:

BMW - total rubbish!

Glock - WTF was he doing?!?!

[ioan]

Piquet outqualifies Alonso! :D

[Sonic]

WOW! What a session. Lets just have sprinklers built into all tracks. ;)

[ioan]

WOW! What a session. Lets just have sprinklers built into all tracks. ;)

Nah, there would be to many conspiracy theories when someone's favorite driver get's caught out.

[ioan]

Congrats Webber for his first pole position. :up:

[ShiftingGears]

Yeah!! :D

[VkmSpouge]

Awesome qualifying session.

Mark Webber doing an excellent lap in securing his first ever F1 pole position.

Brawns are back on form in 2nd and 3rd, Rubens Barrichello's timing in the second session was superb. Jenson Button good in third but on his fastest lap he seemed to have a poor second sector which might well have cost him second or even pole.

Lewis Hamilton and Heikki Kovalainen doing a good job in the McLarens.

Nelson Piquet Jr. out qualifying Fernando Alonso for the first time ever was surprising.

However my star of the session has to be Adrian Sutil! Well done in getting Force India's best qualifying ever.

[Garry Walker]

Horner sounds like someone just killed his relative, so dissapointed at Webbers pole and his beating of the teams golden boy Vettel.

McLaren showing some serious pace.

[wedge]

Awesome performances from Kovy with fewer car updates and Sutil.

[ozrevhead]

Horner sounds like someone just killed his relative, so dissapointed at Webbers pole and his beating of the teams golden boy Vettel.

McLaren showing some serious pace.
that doesnt suprise me - GO GET EM MARK!

[Garry Walker]

Awesome performances from Kovy with fewer car updates and Sutil.

Kovalainen was 1,2 seconds slower than his teammate. do you think the upgrades were worth so much?

[ioan]

Kovalainen was 1,2 seconds slower than his teammate. do you think the upgrades were worth so much?

Yes those updates are woth that much, or even more, how else do you think that a car that finished Silverstone in 17th and didn't make it into Q2 can be 5th on the grid this time around, with the same driver (Lewy)?!

[Garry Walker]

Yes they were worth so much, how else do you think that a car that finished Silverstone in 17th and didn't make it into Q2 can be 5th on the grid this time around, with the same driver (Lewy)?!

Different track, different circumstances.
Do you remember how Hamilton was 5th at Bahrain too? and 14th the next race?
Remember, Kovalainen doesnt have an updated car and he was 6th on the grid, ahead of many who beat him at Silverstone. It is obvious McLaren is just a very good car around this track.

[ioan]

Different track, different circumstances.
Do you remember how Hamilton was 5th at Bahrain too? and 14th the next race?
Remember, Kovalainen doesnt have an updated car and he was 6th on the grid, ahead of many who beat him at Silverstone. It is obvious McLaren is just a very good car around this track.

That's a very belletristic explanation that is based on nothing palpable.

BTW Kovalainen is still 1.2 seconds down on Lewis, as you pointed out yourself, don't tell me it's purely down to the driver.

[Garry Walker]

That's a very belletristic explanation that is based on nothing palpable.

:rotflmao: For some reason I find it really funny seeing you use words that one doesnt encounter in everyday talk. I even dont know why you said it was belletristic.



BTW Kovalainen is still 1.2 seconds down on Lewis, as you pointed out yourself, don't tell me it's purely down to the driver.
We dont even know the fuel loads and I never said it was all down to the driver.But dont say it had nothing to do with the drivers either.

[Sonic]

That's a very belletristic explanation that is based on nothing palpable.

BTW Kovalainen is still 1.2 seconds down on Lewis, as you pointed out yourself, don't tell me it's purely down to the driver.

And I don't even know what belletristic means! This isn't countdown people.

As it goes I agree wholeheartedly with Ioan. Full credit should go to McLaren who have worked sooooo hard to get these pieces on the car.

Kovy did well - but let's be honest in a regular session without the rain he wouldn't have made Q3 so I expect a kovy train tomorrow.

[ioan]

Weights are up:

The Ferraris, Piquet and Sutil are heaviest in top ten.

McLarens are lighter and the Brawns are very very light.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/ger09_document_21.pdf

[veeten]

Interesting... the RBR's are at 661 kg for both drivers. A real test for both tomorrow as to whom will be the favored driver for the race.

[Tazio]

It was only a 1 fast lap run!
Showboating for Mercedes, they do it every year in Germany. They'll be lucky to get points this Sunday. ;) :mad: ;)

[Sonic]

Also with the Brawns so light thats going to be one heck of a run to the first corner. Rubens and Button HAVE to get past Webs if they have any desires on the top step.

[ioan]

:mad: ;)

What?!
He did only qualify 5th with a lot less fuel than the Ferraris!
Not to mention neither Felipe nor Kimi had new tires available for their Q3 run.

[ioan]

Also with the Brawns so light thats going to be one heck of a run to the first corner. Rubens and Button HAVE to get past Webs if they have any desires on the top step.

Lewy will be first out of turn 1, just watch how KERS helps at starts when the run down to turn one is as long as here!

[Sonic]

Lewy will be first out of turn 1, just watch how KERS helps at starts when the run down to turn one is as long as here!

Perhaps, just PLEASE don't do a Fuji for Marks sake!

[ioan]

Perhaps, just PLEASE don't do a Fuji for Marks sake!

Do you think Lewy cares about Mark?! :D

[Tazio]

Penalty's parsed out for Red Bull, Glock
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-red-bull-fined-toyotas-glock-loses-starting-spots/

[christophulus]

Sutil ahead of the Ferraris on pace judging by the fuel loads :eek: . Really needs to convert promise to points tomorrow.

Reckon we're on for some first corner incidents tomorrow, especially if Webber is slow away. The light Brawns have to get a decent getaway or they're dead and buried, and with all four KERS cars in the top 10 it should be great :up:

Weather forecast for tomorrow? More rain?

[I am evil Homer]

Is the Mac definitely running KERS?

[ioan]

Is the Mac definitely running KERS?

They are this week end.

[DanicaFan]

Im predicting another win for Jensen Button. I figured those odds are good since he has won all but 2 races this year. F1 season has been quite boring this year.

[ioan]

Im predicting another win for Jensen Button. I figured those odds are good since he has won all but 2 races this year. F1 season has been quite boring this year.

You're in line for a surprise than, a negative one.

[gloomyDAY]

You're in line for a surprise than, a negative one.If you think he posts rubbish in here, just look at what he posts in the Indy section.

[ioan]

If you think he posts rubbish in here, just look at what he posts in the Indy section.

Well, he's a Danica fan! :D

PS: I've never been to the Indy section of the forum, really.

[Sonic]

Do you think Lewy cares about Mark?! :D

Nope. We all know ickle lewy only cares about himself!

[ioan]

To be honest they are all like that, none cares if the competitor, even team mate, will make the corner as soon as they can make it.

[BTCC Fan#1]

Sutil mighty impressive to outqualify the Scuderia, heres hoping there are some points for Force India tomorrow. Also enjoyed Massa's brief excursion into the wilderness, maybe he fancied a go on the Nordschleife and got a bit lost!

Although it'd be great to see Webber have an easy run to the flag, i'd like to see a bit of rain tomorrow to make it even more interesting.

(Just realised this is also my 1000th post! Don't post that often but been here a few years now!)

[Saint Devote]

OMG!! What happened to Vettel - the sound of incredulity from that "Bob Varsha" on Speed was profound. And of course along with David Hobbs they "wondered what went wrong for Sebastian.

It should be noted that the front 3 places on the grid is filled by three of the oldest and most experienced grand prix drivers. I do not think it is accidental given the weather anarchy that ensued during qualifying.

[Valve Bounce]

If you think he posts rubbish in here, just look at what he posts in the Indy section.

That a gloomy observation!! :D However, maybe he was just trying to cheer us up. :p :

[Tazio]

It should be noted that the front 3 places on the grid is filled by three of the oldest and most experienced grand prix drivers. I do not think it is accidental given the weather anarchy that ensued during qualifying.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!
More to the point it should be noted that the first four grid positions are occupied by
Red Bull, and Brawn :dozey:
Fuel weight corrected Fettel is second fastest :arrows:

[VkmSpouge]

Looking at the weights the Brawns have to jump Mark Webber at the start or else their strategy is messed up. Adrian Sutil's lap is even more impressive in light of his heavy fuel load, points should be on the card for Force India.

[Daniel]

Stupid move by Webber. He had fuel onboard and he chose to punt Rubens :crazy: I would have liked to see Mark win but that was just a brainfart.....

[EuroTroll]

I'd like to congratulate Webber for ruining his best chance ever to win! :laugh: Finally one of his choppy choppies got penalized.

[Ranger]

I would have liked to see Mark win

You may yet see that!! :s hock:

Stunning turn of events.

[ArrowsFA1]

C'mon Mark :s pin: :burnout:

[EuroTroll]

You may yet see that!! :s hock:

Stunning turn of events.

Yes, indeed. Guess my schadenfreude was premature. :cheese:

But at least he got penalized. Good, that. Will give him pause for thought, hopefully.

[Daniel]

You may yet see that!! :s hock:

Stunning turn of events.
Yeah, bit of a pity tbh. I think if you do something that dangerous you don't deserve to win. But them's the brakes

[christophulus]

Great race, engrossing all the way to the end. Well done Webber! :up:

[ShiftingGears]

F*ckin beauty :D :D :D :D

[ioan]

OMG!! What happened to Vettel - the sound of incredulity from that "Bob Varsha" on Speed was profound. And of course along with David Hobbs they "wondered what went wrong for Sebastian.

It should be noted that the front 3 places on the grid is filled by three of the oldest and most experienced grand prix drivers. I do not think it is accidental given the weather anarchy that ensued during qualifying.

What about this being Vettel's first race on this track?! Just a thought.

[ioan]

Well done Webber! A super race and fully deserved win!

[Hawkmoon]

Well done to Webber but that was a dubious move off the start. It's a pity such a great drive will be soured by a move like that.

[AndyL]

What a great drive from Webber. Vettel very much second best today. The expectations of the home crowd probably weighed a bit heavy on Vettel today, like Button at Silverstone.

[VkmSpouge]

Mark Webber drove an excellent (despite his overly aggressive start) and thoroughly deserved his first F1 victory. Red Bull clearly now the team to beat. Felipe Massa drove well to get third place and Nico Rosberg did well to get fourth.

The Brawns clearly suffering in the colder conditions I have never seen drivers weaving in a race to get heat into their tyres. They seriously need to find some performance or else they'll lose this championship. The team now clearly favouring Jenson Button.

I really feel sorry for Adrian Sutil, he should have scored points today.

Funniest moment of the race; Fernando Alonso spinning on the parade lap. Great fun! :D

[F1boat]

Webber was crushing, unbelievable.

[Valve Bounce]

Mark Webber drove an excellent (despite his overly aggressive start) and thoroughly deserved his first F1 victory. Red Bull clearly now the team to beat. Felipe Massa drove well to get third place and Nico Rosberg did well to get fourth.

The Brawns clearly suffering in the colder conditions I have never seen drivers weaving in a race to get heat into their tyres. They seriously need to find some performance or else they'll lose this championship. The team now clearly favouring Jenson Button.

I really feel sorry for Adrian Sutil, he should have scored points today.

Funniest moment of the race; Fernando Alonso spinning on the parade lap. Great fun! :D

Bunsen picked up 4 valuable points, and he got past Rubens on merit


......................but yeah!! great drive by Mark - and he went Troppo after the win. :eek:

[Ranger]

Yes, indeed. Guess my schadenfreude was premature. :cheese:

But at least he got penalized. Good, that. Will give him pause for thought, hopefully.

I agree with you 100%... but only because he won! :D

:D :D

I'm a bit lost for words to be honest.

[AndyL]

Wow Rubens not happy with the team at all. "They made a good show of how to lose a race today." Saying that he did what he had to do in getting to the first corner first, and the team made him lose the race.

He is not going to be with Brawn next year is he.

[Valve Bounce]

I agree with you 100%... but only because he won! :D

:D :D

I'm a bit lost for words to be honest.

Hey!!!!!!!!! just go outside and scream!!!!!!!!!! :p :

[Tazio]

So it was an all around good weekend for Aussie's beatin' on Brits ;)

[Tazio]

Hey!!!!!!!!! just go outside and scream!!!!!!!!!! :p :
Valve That little flying saucer you had put in/near your heart isn't going to spring a leak is it :)

[ioan]

Bunsen picked up 4 valuable points, and he got past Rubens on merit


:rotflmao: Good joke!

BTW this race just confirmed the obvious, if the car isn't the best by a margin the Brawn drives are pants.

[F1boat]

:rotflmao: Good joke!

BTW this race just confirmed the obvious, if the car isn't the best by a margin the Brawn drives are pants.

I think that the car was awful. Ross admitted that it is unable to heat the tires. This is not serious for a race car. About the quality of the drivers Mark said that Jenson is in such form that only the team can fail him and I agree. The car right now suffers in cold weather, like the Ferrari last year. To me to blame the drivers is pathetic.

[ioan]

Wow Rubens not happy with the team at all. "They made a good show of how to lose a race today." Saying that he did what he had to do in getting to the first corner first, and the team made him lose the race.

He is not going to be with Brawn next year is he.

Well, I can't fault him, the strategy was bad (very bad considering it was Brawn who drew it up) and they shafted him again for 1 measly point in Button's favor.

Hopefully one of the RedBull guys and RedBull win the championship.

He got the short end of the stick from Ferrari in Austria, but he's been done by Brawn at least 3 times this season already! He might be cursing the day he left Ferrari and though that he'll be treated better somewhere else.

[ioan]

I think that the car was awful. Ross admitted that it is unable to heat the tires. This is not serious for a race car. About the quality of the drivers Mark said that Jenson is in such form that only the team can fail him and I agree. The car right now suffers in cold weather, like the Ferrari last year. To me to blame the drivers is pathetic.

If Jensy wins is because he's great, if he loses it's because the car! Yeah sure! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
And if he get's 5th instead of 6th it's because Ruby had to bend over, the nth time. I really hoped that somehow Ruby will be at least alongside Jens, when he left the pit lane, and would show him the finger! :D

[Garry Walker]

Well, I can't fault him, the strategy was bad (very bad considering it was Brawn who drew it up) and they shafted him again for 1 measly point in Button's favor.

Hopefully one of the RedBull guys and RedBull win the championship.
.

Why? Button has clearly been better than any of the Redbull guys so far.
Those guys have all made far too many errors and wasted opportunities to win races.

[Big Ben]

I think you ought to reconsider watching f1.

This is a tremendous season. Read f1 history and discover that f1 most of the time has "boring" seasons.

Further - this is not the first of last time that f1 politics have affected the sport. Its always been like this and at times "war" does break out and the histrionics are beyond other sports.

Nothing that has happened this far is new.

Ferrari have always at time threatened a withdrawal of sorts.
The FIA [CIS] president has always been contentious.
Bernie has always been Bernie - including when he was a world champion team owner.
Max, who possesses the greatest f1 legal mind, has always been this way - even when he was a very successful racing car constructor and a successful team owner.

So, I recommend taking al this in your stride. It is in the process of being sorted out and will simmer down as the season matures.

Its called f1 and it IS extreme - thank god!!!

Thanks for the advice. I´ve actually needed someone to come here and tell me whether I should or should not watch f1. And thanks for explanation no I know this season is just as good as the last 3.
I thought Bernie was Chucky before.
I don´t even know what a legal mind is. Who has the most illegal mind? I know who has the most twisted mind in f1.
I know it´s been like this for a while. I didn´t notice Mad Max is a sick man this year. He and his team of idiots mocked this sport too much already. If he doesn´t go I will quit watching, that´s for sure.

[F1boat]

Why? Button has clearly been better than any of the Redbull guys so far.
Those guys have all made far too many errors and wasted opportunities to win races.

Ioan simply hates Jenson. well, should one of the Red Bull kids beats Button to the WDC, I'd prefer Mark. For me the ideal final will be Jenson vs Mark - old, even battered fighters, not some teenie-weenie wonder.

[ioan]

Ioan simply hates Jenson.

Why would anyone hate a curbstone?! :laugh:
I agree I'm not in love with him like you are, and I don't hope for others to have accidents and failures for him to win, as you do, but that's a completely other matter.

[Big Ben]

not some teenie-weenie wonder.

So u basically don't like the guy because he's young, right?

[ioan]

So u basically don't like the guy because he's young, right?

He just hates the guy because he might knock Jensy from the top of the points standings.
He will shortly start to have the same sentiments towards Webber, just wait and see. ;)

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76958

Bernie is being a greedy little hobbit and Hockenheim doesn't want to hock up the cash to stage a race. Also, his little Hitler comments didn't go down too well from the people who are supposed to host the race. 'Ring will not hold the GP in 2010 because of the ridiculous fees!

[Sonic]

Bernie is being a greedy little hobbit

LMAO! :s pin:

The sooner we get rid of both Max and Bernie the better. Lets just hope Bernie doesn't live to his hundredth and eleventhy birthday like Bilbo.

[jens]

Why?

Nigel Mansell was 39 when he finally won a title and it was only around 3 years before that he actually was leaving the sport - it was just that Williams agreed to his terms.

Alas DC was already in 2008 one of the worst drivers on the grid. Alas don't see it would have been any different in 2009 - he would most probably get hammered by Vettel or Webber.


Why? Button has clearly been better than any of the Redbull guys so far.
Those guys have all made far too many errors and wasted opportunities to win races.

Wow, after years of criticism even Garry Walker is now rating Button highly! :D

But I've got to disagree with you here. :p : Button looked good in a dominant car, but now, when the car is not that good, he is struggling to show anything special.

[Saint Devote]

Ridiculous fees? Bernie is a businessman and he sells his product. Why is he a "hobbit" just because he wants his price? What are you? A socialist?

If Hockenheim cannot come up with the money then thats too bad. Maybe they should try harder!

[Saint Devote]

You think that Jenson finishing in the points when a car is less than makes him less special?

Then what will you say about Hamilton who the idiots of the world were fawning over not too long ago as the reincarnation of Fangio, Clark and Senna?

There are very few times in the quest for thw championship that team does not hit a low period for some reason.

The difference is that Jenson has managed to minimize the damage by scoring points and we all know that at the end of the season even 1 point can make a world championship of difference. Just ask Felipe Massa about that!

If the Hungaroring is its usual self and the conditions at the previous 2 races were reponsible, then the Brawns should be right up there and it is conceivable that Jenson can win pole position and the grand prix on the circuit he won his first grand prix.

[Saint Devote]

Autosport magazine is reporting that Briatore has said the he does not know who will drive the second Renault in Hungary.

In my view, if Bourdais has been booted from TR then there is no way to justify further occupation of the second Renault car by Piquet.

[gloomyDAY]

Ridiculous fees? Bernie is a businessman and he sells his product. Why is he a "hobbit" just because he wants his price? What are you? A socialist?

If Hockenheim cannot come up with the money then thats too bad. Maybe they should try harder!Yes, ridiculous fees. Here let me put it in bold for you - ridiculous fees. I don't think BMW and Mercedes will be happy when there is not a GP in Germany next year. Bernie is siphoning every cent out of European racetracks that do not receive funds from the public treasury. I guess a grandstand full of tumbleweeds in Turkey, China, Malaysia, and Bahrain are more of your cup of tea.

Bernie looks like a hobbit. Not to mention he's a greedy coffin dodger.

I'm not a socialist. I bought a Che Guevara t-shirt @ a 7.75% CA tax.
My hard earned dollars went to feed a capatilist machine.

[Big Ben]

Ridiculous fees? Bernie is a businessman and he sells his product. Why is he a "hobbit" just because he wants his price? What are you? A socialist?

If Hockenheim cannot come up with the money then thats too bad. Maybe they should try harder!

Maybe you'd be kind enough to point out what exactly is Bernie's product. I see nothing but a leech.

[Garry Walker]

Wow, after years of criticism even Garry Walker is now rating Button highly! :D

But I've got to disagree with you here. :p : Button looked good in a dominant car, but now, when the car is not that good, he is struggling to show anything special.
I think there are better drivers than Button out there, but out of Red Bull and Brawn drivers he has clearly been the best. He made the most of his opportunities and won races where his car was not as quick as the Red Bull. But at the moment Red Bull is so much quicker than Brawn that there is really nothing that he can do against them.

In a non-dominant car, no driver will show anything special.

[Sonic]

Oh Garry you have just opened a whole can of woop a$$ on yourself with your last statement. :p

[gloomyDAY]

I think there are better drivers than Button out there, but out of Red Bull and Brawn drivers he has clearly been the best. He made the most of his opportunities and won races where his car was not as quick as the Red Bull. But at the moment Red Bull is so much quicker than Brawn that there is really nothing that he can do against them.

In a non-dominant car, no driver will show anything special.I think you've posted this same garbage a dozen times....... :o

I'm not sure what Vettel put in your porridge, but I think you should have crapped it out by now.

[Saint Devote]

What is Bernie's product? Why is there so much ignorance?

Formula 1 of course. Prior to Bernie, f1 was barely on the worldwide radar. It was a loose attachment of teams that existed on small ampunts of prize money and the sponsorship was barely comfortable.

It was Bernie that made f1 into the supersport that it is today. He negotiated the tracks, the fees, and tv exposure.

Many people in f1 have become fabulously wealthy through that. They live in Monaco and sail on yachts and party with lovely women and drive the best cars.

So next time anyone decides to pointedly attack Bernie Ecclestone, rather notice the three fingers pointiing at yourself and ask who the hell YOU are to criticize a man that has built this sport into what it is today and made great fortune.

Answer this question: just why should Bernie sacrifice his interests for track owners that cannot pay the fee?

What difference does it make if there is no German Grand Prix in 2010? Sue its nostalgic, but there is also a problem. If formula 1 so important to these countries why would they let it go?

And if Bernie lowers his price - it will not remain secret, the next minute he will have extremely upset [and rightly so] promoters that have paid full priuce calling him. That is not sound business.

[Valve Bounce]

Bernie is a greedy shyte!! I will try to think of other adjectives to describe the greedy dwarf, but I am about to have my lunch right now, and I don't want to puke.

[CNR]

Ridiculous fees? Bernie is a businessman and he sells his product. Why is he a "hobbit" just because he wants his price? What are you? A socialist?

If Hockenheim cannot come up with the money then thats too bad. Maybe they should try harder!

why should any country have to pay 40,000,000 + to host a f1 gp per year
this is around 680,000,000 australian dollars
so over 340,000,000 us

NOT to confuse this with the tv money that the team get their money from

Saint Devote you need to find out how much of f1 share does bernie still own (it is not much) start with CVC

[ioan]

Maybe you'd be kind enough to point out what exactly is Bernie's product. I see nothing but a leech.

You asking Max and Bernie's little helper to justify his opinion?! ;)

[ioan]

Bernie is a greedy shyte!! I will try to think of other adjectives to describe the greedy dwarf, but I am about to have my lunch right now, and I don't want to puke.

What was the name of that ugly whatever in Lord of the rings? I think that it describes Bernie quite well.

[Big Ben]

What was the name of that ugly whatever in Lord of the rings? I think that it describes Bernie quite well.

He does seem to resemble smeagol/gollum :laugh:

[ioan]

He does seem to resemble smeagol/gollum :laugh:

He also behaves like it.