TG gone, and with it hopes for a USA GP

[markabilly]

While Indy spent more than 100 million to fix the track for grand prix racing, that investment never really paid off, and now with TG gone, there is no one left with anything like the money and willingness to sponsor such a race in the USA, given benie's greed, so bad news for all you dreamers....... :( :(


only a question of time until the indy 500 for ow racers is dead as well, is my guess as the Indy 500 may be filled with nascar in the next couple of years--Indeed, Nastycar may well make an offer that the newbies at IMS will not refuse.......... :(

details of the mess over in the irl thread for those interested
for me, I only wanted to hear the shriek (not the broken muffler noise from IRL cars) split the air in the usa, one more time before I croak, oh well, what the hades

[Bagwan]

Well , Billy , you need to remember that the FOTA teams have stated that it is a top priority to get back to the snakes .
I have been awoken by the 10 cylinder alarm clock , at Indy in 2000 .

[markabilly]

Well , Billy , you need to remember that the FOTA teams have stated that it is a top priority to get back to the snakes .
I have been awoken by the 10 cylinder alarm clock , at Indy in 2000 .
I think the only chance of that is (1)if maX stays as prez, and (2)Fota kick the ass of bernie, and (3) start their own series,

but alas, the only one with a track deemed suitable for F1 snobs (even if FOTA takes over), money (used to have it anyway), interest, and a real ability to put it all together was Tony (interesting was that even the FIA gave him some award for promoter of the year, during the last year that the race was run there)

As to the split, I went to qing for IRL cars and the first car i heard trying to Q, I thought the engine was gonna blow, only to have my ignorance immediately pointed out......

[Bagwan]

Granatelli days since I paid any attention to Indy cars .

I was talking about F1 in bubba land .

It may take a different form , but the lads do need to sell Ferraris in the terminator state at least .

They'll be back , Ecclescake or not .

Have you noticed the newest Honda commercials , by the way , bragging about the IRL connections ?

[call_me_andrew]

As much as FOTA wants to be in the U.S., it's not Indy their after. Most high-end cars are sold along the coasts, not the mid-west.

If ISC or SMI could be convinced that they can profit off it, I'm sure they'll jump at the chance.

[markabilly]

Granatelli days since I paid any attention to Indy cars .

I was talking about F1 in bubba land .

.

Have you noticed the newest Honda commercials , by the way , bragging about the IRL connections ?
yeah i was to when i said shreik

u mean the same honda that jumped off the now so called brawn ship....

As much as FOTA wants to be in the U.S., it's not Indy their after. Most high-end cars are sold along the coasts, not the mid-west.

If ISC or SMI could be convinced that they can profit off it, I'm sure they'll jump at the chance.

i do not really care where, but at benie's rates, not even indy can afford it...i don't see nobody else taking its place cause of the money--the only who profits is benie

[Jag_Warrior]

Have you noticed the newest Honda commercials , by the way , bragging about the IRL connections ?

No, I haven't seen any new ones lately. But I guess they either make an IRL commercial (was The Danica in it? She's just so awesome!), or they make some motorbike commercials... cause that's about all they have left. I was just looking at my Senna McLaren-Honda diecasts earlier (refinishing a display)... it's really sad how the mighty have fallen so far.

And I read that Ford has taken some market share from both Honda and Toyota. Whew, TG out on his azz and getting kicked in the nads by Ford all in the same week. Things be lookin' kinda sad in Hondaland these days.

[call_me_andrew]

Indy couldn't afford to do it without a title sponsor. TG's only problem there was trying to find a sponsor in this economy.

The other day I was thinking that New Jersey Motorsports Park might be able to afford Bernie's fees. It functions primarily as a country club so if anyone can do it, it's them.

There's also the street course route. You'd have to find a city with some streets that only need minimal modifications, build a garage, and construct barriers and seating. It's possible to get a small grant from a local government if you can promise a high return on investment for a small amount, but you may be accused of running a Ponzi scheme. Having that grant could make it easier to find a title sponsor.

There's also the possibility of fans uniting to establish a promotion company that will operate the race. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyFootballClub

[markabilly]

Huh? they can afford benie's $20 million fee to him, plus all the other costs of building, promotion and so forth????
and still think they ar going to break even??

[call_me_andrew]

Breaking even is just a matter of selling a large number of cheap seats or a small number of expensive seats. I believe seats for the Japanese GP are about $250 each. If 100,000 people show up, Bernie gets paid with a few million dollars of profit.

And that 100,000 is just for Sunday. It doesn't take Friday and Saturday attendence into account.

[Saint Devote]

Bernie is doing the correct thing.

CVC, the owners of f1 paid for it with a gigantic loan and this has to be repaid.

Until this happens, races in places where human rights barely exist and fans essentially do not exist, will continue.

The alternative is to position races in countries with fans that can affiord tickets.

Problem is in the United States, the East coast and the West coast is governed by Liberals. And these are the eco-whackos and global warming alarmists that consider racing cars to be evil.

There is unlikely in my view to be a United States Grand Prix for many years.

Best way forward for North America? Revive the Canadian Grand Prix in Montreal - outside of the 'Glen [a track I love deeply] the Ille Notre Dame is a great circuit.

[ioan]

Bernie is doing the correct thing.

CVC, the owners of f1 paid for it with a gigantic loan and this has to be repaid.

But this isn't our problem, is it?
Nor should it be the problem of the teams.
In fact it is only one problem in F1, the guy who pocketed that huge loan taken by CVC, one Bernard Ecclestone.

I wonder if you're paid to post rubbish or you really believe it?
This is a serious question.

[ioan]

There's also the possibility of fans uniting to establish a promotion company that will operate the race. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyFootballClub

Fans should not pay Bernie money directly, they should ask for him to be thrown out of F1.

[ioan]

Breaking even is just a matter of selling a large number of cheap seats or a small number of expensive seats. I believe seats for the Japanese GP are about $250 each. If 100,000 people show up, Bernie gets paid with a few million dollars of profit.

And that 100,000 is just for Sunday. It doesn't take Friday and Saturday attendence into account.

That might be the case. But do 100,000 people show up nowadays on a F1 GP Sunday?

Also who pays for all that needs to be done to keep the tracks and facilities up to F1's utopic standards?

PS: I believe that the price is 250 USD for the whole week end, unless it's for VIP area and the Start-Finish grandstand and you can't put 100,000 people in there.

[call_me_andrew]

If NASCAR can get 130,000 to show up for a Sprint Cup race and attendence still be down, then I'm sure F1 can draw over 150,000.

I'm pretty sure I saw Sunday tickets at Silverstone were about $300.

[anthonyvop]

While Indy spent more than 100 million to fix the track for grand prix racing, that investment never really paid off, and now with TG gone, there is no one left with anything like the money and willingness to sponsor such a race in the USA, given benie's greed, so bad news for all you dreamers....... :( :(

You are wrong. I know of 2 groups actively working to bring F1 back to the US and have heard a rumor of a third.

[Jag_Warrior]

If NASCAR can get 130,000 to show up for a Sprint Cup race and attendence still be down, then I'm sure F1 can draw over 150,000.

I'm pretty sure I saw Sunday tickets at Silverstone were about $300.

NASCAR Sprint Cup is the second most popular sport in the U.S., behind only the NFL. F1 has about the same following (judging by network TV ratings) as the IRL or ALMS. It doesn't even equal NASCAR's second tier Nationwide Series. With the IRL pretty much being measured for a coffin now, why would sponsors flock to an F1 race in the U.S.?

I wouldn't donate the first penny into some fantasy effort to bring F1 back to the U.S. The best that I hope for is that the Canadian Grand Prix returns to Montreal ASAP.

[D28]

While Indy spent more than 100 million to fix the track for grand prix racing, that investment never really paid off, and now with TG gone, there is no one left with anything like the money and willingness to sponsor such a race in the USA, given benie's greed, so bad news for all you dreamers...

If these facts are true, and TG only got a committment from Bernie for 7 years, I cannot see any rational group investing the dollars to stage another USGP. It's not just the recent Indy saga, but Las Vegas, Dallas, Detroit, Phoenix etc. Who else could Bernie pitch his scheme to? I would not hold my breath for a revised Canadian GP either. This could only occur with substantial government funding, and the Canadian government has other priorities, for example the Winter Olympics 2010.

[AJP]

F1 has about the same following (judging by network TV ratings) as the IRL or ALMS. It doesn't even equal NASCAR's second tier Nationwide Series. With the IRL pretty much being measured for a coffin now, why would sponsors flock to an F1 race in the U.S.?
.No wonder it is this way, Your not going to get the masses of the U.S following F1 unless there is a race held there..pretty simple really

[AJP]

There have been a number of F1 races in the US over the years. The masses didn't follow it then either.

Surely you need consistency.

If it comes and goes, you can not build on a product.

[call_me_andrew]

NASCAR Sprint Cup is the second most popular sport in the U.S., behind only the NFL. F1 has about the same following (judging by network TV ratings) as the IRL or ALMS. It doesn't even equal NASCAR's second tier Nationwide Series. With the IRL pretty much being measured for a coffin now, why would sponsors flock to an F1 race in the U.S.?

I wouldn't donate the first penny into some fantasy effort to bring F1 back to the U.S. The best that I hope for is that the Canadian Grand Prix returns to Montreal ASAP.

1. When I said F1 could draw 150,000; I wasn't just talking about the U.S. I meant in ANY country.
2. I'm well aware that OW racing has become a niche sport in the U.S, but let's not forget that when the USGP was held at Indy, half the attendees were from OUTSIDE the United States. You seem to think Americans are the target audience.

The IndyCar Series drew over 100,000 fans to a street race in Tampa Bay this year. That's really impressive considering they usually only get about 35,000 fans at permanent tracks, and only 300,000 people watched that race on television. It's easy to get 100,000 Americans to show up at a street course just for the party. On top of that, I'm willing to bet 100,000 foreigners show up for the race.

[markabilly]

If these facts are true, and TG only got a committment from Bernie for 7 years, I cannot see any rational group investing the dollars to stage another USGP. It's not just the recent Indy saga, but Las Vegas, Dallas, Detroit, Phoenix etc. Who else could Bernie pitch his scheme to? I would not hold my breath for a revised Canadian GP either. This could only occur with substantial government funding, and the Canadian government has other priorities, for example the Winter Olympics 2010.
That is correct--the real problem is promotion and establishing a solid fan base --until the "tire scew up" the race at Indy, it had solid attendance

TV numbers in the usa were okay

After that things went :down:

and then BE wanted even more money

As to TV, most races are at a bad time zone (and yeah, some of you whiners will hate it) It ain't broadcast in hi def

Indeed, the typical ama race on the hi def speed channel or the irl races in hi def come out much much better than either motogp or formula one as both look like an upscale of an old VHS tape

Seca was a horrible example---IRL at Waktins was some good picture quality, and my hopes was that it would be the same for Seca, since I had to miss.....WELL, NOT

At first I thought it was something wrong with the channel, then the commercial would come on and those in hi def, jump off the screen....
then I thought wait, I had seen some other stuff from Seca on saturday and it was in hi def--excellent stuff, then it hit me, we were stuck with the "world feed" s***




STUPID and years behind the times....

[markabilly]

and now Fuji International Speedway, after a massive costly upgrade, has said no more formula one......

when maX was all about cost cutting for the teams, maybe he should have worried more about the fans and tracks, as in cutting benie's fees for the races..... :confused:

[DexDexter]

There have been a number of F1 races in the US over the years. The masses didn't follow it then either.

No international sport interests the masses in the US, with the possible exception of Olympics, right?

[Griffon]

That's right, and I think interest in the Olympics is gradually diminishing. But TV ratings have been slowly declining for American sports, too.

[markabilly]

That's right, and I think interest in the Olympics is gradually diminishing. But TV ratings have been slowly declining for American sports, too.
yeah replaced by bachleor, american idoit, dancing in the stars

[DexDexter]

I think Bernie and co should buy the Long Beach contract from IRL, it could be possible if enough money is put on the table. Then they should lower the fee for that race only in order to make it succesful. I'm sure it could be a success, the tradition and the setting are there. Having a well-attended race in a fancy setting is the best F1 can ever hope for in the States. It's not going to become massively popular over there.

[D28]

I think Bernie and co should buy the Long Beach contract from IRL, it could be possible if enough money is put on the table. Then they should lower the fee for that race only in order to make it succesful. I'm sure it could be a success, the tradition and the setting are there. Having a well-attended race in a fancy setting is the best F1 can ever hope for in the States. It's not going to become massively popular over there.

What, Bernie invest his own money in a race? That is not the way he operates. Starter is correct, he could have dealt with Long Beach 26 years ago but didn't.
Continuity is important, it matters not so much where the race is held, as long as it becomes traditional. Watkins Glen, Long Beach and IMS all served the purpose for a while. F1 will never ever rival NASCAR, but there are enough fans to support a race; a sizable portion of the Canadian GP crowd were Americans.
I think Bernie is ambivalent or indifferent to the North American races. Canada has a slight advantage, as Montreal is the only venue competing.
It's either there or no race. For the US, Bernie always holds the threat of moving to another circuit. I don't think his tactics will work any longer.
A change in ownership of commercial F1 is necessary before it returns to US.

[wmcot]

There have been a number of F1 races in the US over the years. The masses didn't follow it then either.

They need to change the marketing strategy - plenty of cheap beer and a "shirts optional" policy at the track! :)

[nigelred5]

No wonder it is this way, Your not going to get the masses of the U.S following F1 unless there is a race held there..pretty simple really

Frankly like other's have said, If it's not an American sport, the majority of the US doesn't care. End of story. We see higher ratings for a nationally televised collegiate lacrosse game than F1 gets. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have another USGP, but it will never get the kind of TV ratings the NFL gets for a regular season sunday afternoon game Now that the US auto market is in the toilet, so is the manufacturer interest in having an F1 race in the US at the moment.

[truefan72]

But this isn't our problem, is it?
Nor should it be the problem of the teams.
In fact it is only one problem in F1, the guy who pocketed that huge loan taken by CVC, one Bernard Ecclestone.

I wonder if you're paid to post rubbish or you really believe it?
This is a serious question.

lol well said

[truefan72]

There have been a number of F1 races in the US over the years. The masses didn't follow it then either.
...cause nobody wants to show up to Indianapolis in the mkiddle of the summer with their 1am bar closing time and paltry surroundings.

Bring the race to a track in Miami, California, or the Northeast and I'm sure you would see 150k easily

My choice, Miami
first year, a road coarse in south beach, while they build an open wheel track right outside the city...and no tilke!

[truefan72]

1. When I said F1 could draw 150,000; I wasn't just talking about the U.S. I meant in ANY country.
2. I'm well aware that OW racing has become a niche sport in the U.S, but let's not forget that when the USGP was held at Indy, half the attendees were from OUTSIDE the United States. You seem to think Americans are the target audience.

The IndyCar Series drew over 100,000 fans to a street race in Tampa Bay this year. That's really impressive considering they usually only get about 35,000 fans at permanent tracks, and only 300,000 people watched that race on television. It's easy to get 100,000 Americans to show up at a street course just for the party. On top of that, I'm willing to bet 100,000 foreigners show up for the race.

excellent points, when JPM was racing, he brought in like 5,000 Colombians to that race, There is also a large immigrant population in the US, I dare say that if a Mexican driver where in F1, a USGP would bring in at least 50k Mexicans to the event. When the US soccer plays Mexico anywhere in the US, the crowd is well over half Mexican. last year, they sold out Soldier field which felt like a Mexico home game.

I'm sure you would also see a sizable European audience flock to the likes of South beach for a week of fun and F1 race killing 2 birds with one stone. That city and weekend could easily be one of the more sought after and desired races all year long.

[markabilly]

Uhh...well...uhh...hate to break it to you true fan......err JPM don't race no fing one, he dun gone nascar

and let me see what mexicans are racing F1?????

Besdies they all flocked to Houston Texxas not mimia.....and I hate those street courses like long beach and Houston or malamyass that are bothing more than a bunch of streets surrounded by concrete barriers

[call_me_andrew]

I think it would be difficult to get a city that already has a permanent race track, to agree to use its streets for a street course. And then expect to move the race after one year. Traditionally, street courses have been replaced by permanent tracks [Spa, Daytona, Donnington, Watkins Glen], not the other way around. As long as the promotor can figure out how to profit off the party, F1 doesn't have to become popular in the U.S.

The quality of a street course varies by it's location. Too often they're located in downtown areas where the grid pattern forces a Tilke-like bombardment of 90-degree turns. If you put the race near a body of water or in a park, then you get away from the grid and include different types of turns.

Here's a track I've been considering lately in Philadelphia's Fairmount Park. It's about 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) long and has several elevation changes and includes a bridge. It doesn't block any major arteries, and it should be far enough away from residential areas to avoid noise complaints.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/phillytrack4.jpg

[AndyL]

Here's a track I've been considering lately in Philadelphia's Fairmount Park. It's about 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) long and has several elevation changes and includes a bridge. It doesn't block any major arteries, and it should be far enough away from residential areas to avoid noise complaints.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/phillytrack4.jpg

Looks good! Make it so :)

[markabilly]

I think it would be difficult to get a city that already has a permanent race track, to agree to use its streets for a street course. And then expect to move the race after one year. Traditionally, street courses have been replaced by permanent tracks [Spa, Daytona, Donnington, Watkins Glen], not the other way around. As long as the promotor can figure out how to profit off the party, F1 doesn't have to become popular in the U.S.

The quality of a street course varies by it's location. Too often they're located in downtown areas where the grid pattern forces a Tilke-like bombardment of 90-degree turns. If you put the race near a body of water or in a park, then you get away from the grid and include different types of turns.

Here's a track I've been considering lately in Philadelphia's Fairmount Park. It's about 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) long and has several elevation changes and includes a bridge. It doesn't block any major arteries, and it should be far enough away from residential areas to avoid noise complaints.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/phillytrack4.jpg
that may be in a city, but that is far more "road" course than what I think of as a street course
and looks great to me, until they start adding in all the chicanes on those areas before the fast corners and long straights :(