Briatore to help F1 improve show

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76517

I have mixed views on this. He does realise that F1 does need to be in some ways a show, and that overtaking is important.

However, he did mention ideas like having a feature and a sprint race for F1, several months ago, which would be thoroughly awful.

Thoughts?

[ArrowsFA1]

On the one hand Briatore has always had a rather different view of F1 because he came from 'selling jumpers for Benetton', rather than having a racing background like other team principals.

[Jag_Warrior]

This tells me all that I need to know about this issue, as it pertains to the FIA and Mosley:



"I think as you are aware, FOTA undertook a very interesting survey of fans trying to understand what they wanted," explained Whitmarsh. "The initial work led us to some conclusions that were put before the FIA.

"Unfortunately, none of those suggestions and ideas, which we felt were positive, were accepted. We now have to continue that work."

Like most dictators, Max felt that he knew the way forward and didn't need anyone else's input or suggestions. And why listen to the fans... ya know, the people who actually watch and attend these events? "Eh, if they don't like F1, let them watch some other series. And if you don't like the rules, then start your own series. If you don't like my behavior... then spank me, Mommy!" Sick twist. :dozey:

The racing series which has done perhaps the best job of understanding and meeting the demands of fans is NASCAR. Bernie's done a good of of finding places to extort for ever higher fees. But neither he nor Max seem to have the slightest clue of what the fans are actually looking for. And judging by how this survery was dismissed, apparently they don't care. That's unfortunate. The high tech series with the low tech approach.

Bring in some new blood!

[driveace]

Surely the biggest change needed is to reduce THE PRICE OF THE TICKETS !
Thats the thing most fans wish would happen!

[ioan]

Flav: We have to make the sport more appealing to women so first change will be: all drivers have to wear thongs on the podium!

:rotflmao:

Judging by the brain dead morons who attended Silverstone over the years, they are the last people who should be asked.

[maximilian]

What's so bad about a sprint race on Saturday? The Grand Prix on Sunday would count towards the WDC and WCC, the Sprint races (Petit Prix) could have their own points breakdown.

Friday: practice 1 & 2, then sprint qualifying...
Saturday: practice, feature qualifying, then Petit Prix sprint race!
Sunday: Grand Prix feature race!

Lots of track action! :s mokin:
As long as the sprint race doesn't replace the GP qualifying, I'd be all for it.

[gloomyDAY]

Judging by the brain dead morons who attended Silverstone over the years, they are the last people who should be asked. :o hplease: I guess fans should start wearing business suits to all the venues.

[ioan]

What's so bad about a sprint race on Saturday? The Grand Prix on Sunday would count towards the WDC and WCC, the Sprint races (Petit Prix) could have their own points breakdown.

Friday: practice 1 & 2, then sprint qualifying...
Saturday: practice, feature qualifying, then Petit Prix sprint race!
Sunday: Grand Prix feature race!

Lots of track action! :s mokin:
As long as the sprint race doesn't replace the GP qualifying, I'd be all for it.

And what do they do with the Petit Prix points? Win the Petit Prix championship?! :rolleyes:

[maximilian]

And what do they do with the Petit Prix points? Win the Petit Prix championship?! :rolleyes:
Exactly! :D
It's an opportunity for a team to test components (maybe even test drivers in the car occasionally) under real race conditions - earning a little more out of a new prize money pool. The real benefit would be to the fans, however, as they get to see more of the cars and drivers they paid thru the nose to come see. :cool:

[V12]

No, no, a thousand times no (to Flav).

As far as "the show" and stuff goes on a GP weekend, I'd rather see them focus on opening up the paddock to fans and that sort of thing, the bread and butter, rather than any gimmicks. Another positive thing they could do is have extra running on Friday for testing (not subject to engine, gearbox, tyre limits), in conjunction with the testing ban. This way the teams get to do *some* in season testing, but a big crowd gets to watch.

I really like Sam Michael's quote in this Autosport article:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76487



Michael insists that F1 always has to play a fine balancing act, however, between making the racing better but not detracting from the sport being the most technologically advanced in the world.

"It is an issue that we have to keep trying to improve, but the fans are also here to see the fastest cars, the technology and the drivers that go with that," explained Michael. "They are not here just to see overtaking.

"All the fan studies that have been done by FIA and also FOTA show that. They want to know that they are watching the quickest cars in the world. Because if they just wanted to see overtaking, they could go down to Shennington kart track.

"You'd see a lot more overtaking down there than you ever would at a grand prix, or any autorace if you like. But there is a reason why you don't get 100,000 people watching go-kart racing, and that is because there is no technology. There is overtaking, but everything else that F1 has they don't have.

"It's a little bit why people go to Farnborough Air Show. They go there to see Migs, Tornados and things like that, because they know those are the absolute best things in the world - if they weren't after technology they would go and watch a paper airplane competition."

[cynisca]

I just say two words to improve the Formula One. OVAL RACING! :D

To be seriously, I would settle down the ticket prices to get more spectators. But, to be honest, I would prefer an oval race on the EuroSpeedway Lausitz (my closest race track). Yes, one oval race, not more.

[V12]

I just say two words to improve the Formula One. OVAL RACING! :D

To be seriously, I would settle down the ticket prices to get more spectators. But, to be honest, I would prefer an oval race on the EuroSpeedway Lausitz (my closest race track). Yes, one oval race, not more.

I may be a purist at heart and love the tradition of Grand Prix racing, but you know what, I'd welcome that. An oval, at the end of the day, is a motor racing track just like any other, and the different challenge that it would pose to the teams and drivers would be an interesting one.

I think the safety and "cost-cutting" (i.e. re-jigging the cars to run on an oval) brigades would shoot that one down in flames in an instant, though.

[ratonmacias]

Flav: We have to make the sport more appealing to women so first change will be: all drivers have to wear thongs on the podium!

:rotflmao:

thats gay what flav should is make mandatory thongs and topless at the whole track as flag waivers to all the women under 40 that he has banged since the 80`s until now.

[ioan]

thats gay what flav should is make mandatory thongs and topless at the whole track as flag waivers to all the women under 40 that he has banged since the 80`s until now.

I guess many of those womens are over 40 right now otherwise he's in trouble! ;)

[ratonmacias]

I guess many of those womens are over 40 right now otherwise he's in trouble! ;)

we need to set up the criteria women who right now are between 21 and 40. lol

[ShiftingGears]

I may be a purist at heart and love the tradition of Grand Prix racing, but you know what, I'd welcome that. An oval, at the end of the day, is a motor racing track just like any other, and the different challenge that it would pose to the teams and drivers would be an interesting one.

I think the safety and "cost-cutting" (i.e. re-jigging the cars to run on an oval) brigades would shoot that one down in flames in an instant, though.

The closest thing I'd want to an oval on the F1 calendar is Monza without chicanes.

[Saint Devote]

For me the most important utterance by Flavio - if ever a name suited anyone... - was that FOTA intends to return races to stadia that are full and this is stated to be traditional venues.

The emptiness and disinterest shown at grands prix since the start of the 2009 season has had a significant impact on teams.

It is also vital not to alienate long time people such as myself that stand with f1 through everything and love the history of motor racing.

This requires - and I mean it - that in no way must f1 start to manufacture situations.

EXAMPLE: I do not care about overtaking - f1 has never been about that as a prime ingredient - I do care that races are disrupted and distorted because of pitstops.

F1 is NOT a team sport as has become some sort of mantra. It is the job of the team to provide the driver with a car and the driver ought to be the only one directly involved in deciding the race.

The current nonsense of pit stops that is coming to an effective halt at the end of the 2009 season has been one of the grossest ideas ever.

I just hope that another gimmick of having to use two tire types during a race is abandoned too. It is a a sport, a motor race, not a circus or wrestling or that phoney racing series called NASCAR.

[wmcot]

As far as "the show" and stuff goes on a GP weekend, I'd rather see them focus on opening up the paddock to fans and that sort of thing, the bread and butter, rather than any gimmicks. Another positive thing they could do is have extra running on Friday for testing (not subject to engine, gearbox, tyre limits), in conjunction with the testing ban. This way the teams get to do *some* in season testing, but a big crowd gets to watch.



I agree 100%! I've been to every ALMS Utah GP since they opened the track in 2006 and it's nice to be able to see and talk to the drivers. It's also sometimes humorous - in 2006, my 25 year old daughter had her Kimi McLaren hat on and drew boos (in jest) from the Penske Porsche team drivers who were big Schumacher fans! It shows the human side of drivers when you can see them up close.

[wmcot]

This requires - and I mean it - that in no way must f1 start to manufacture situations.



Are you kidding? Max was the one who "manufactured situations" beginning with the rules changes in 2005 to end Ferrari's dominance, then adding no tire stops, adding the requirement that cars run 2 types of tires, adding KERS for overtaking, revising aero for "more" overtaking, and the list goes on and on...All these were done under Max's rule to "add to the spectacle" and all pretty much failed miserably.

[Dave B]

Judging by the brain dead morons who attended Silverstone over the years, they are the last people who should be asked.
Speaking as someone who has attended many British GPs at Silverstone, I'd be grateful if you could expand on that remark. You know, just so I don't think of you as a bigoted xenophobe.

[AndyL]

EXAMPLE: I do not care about overtaking - f1 has never been about that as a prime ingredient - I do care that races are disrupted and distorted because of pitstops.

F1 is NOT a team sport as has become some sort of mantra. It is the job of the team to provide the driver with a car and the driver ought to be the only one directly involved in deciding the race.

Why have teams at all then? Just super-size Formula Palmer Audi.
That's a fine way to give young drivers a (relatively) cheap way to hone and display their driving skills but it is not the makings of a genuine international championship.

Pit stops are not a "distortion" IMO but an opportunity for different tactical decisions that can keep the outcome of a race open until the late stages. Without them many races would be decided at the first corner given current downforce levels. The way I see it there is a choice: keep pit stops and keep F1 as a 14,000 horsepower chess match (nothing wrong with that), or reduce downforce to enable close following and overtaking. And I don't mean fiddling about with blocking up holes in diffusers, I mean something like a 75% reduction in downforce. As long as F1 remains the technical pinnacle of motor racing, F1 cars will have more aerodynamic downforce than anything else, and consequently overtaking will be more difficult than in any other formula.

[I am evil Homer]

Reduce ticket prices - get more fans in attendance
Open up the paddock - lets the fans actually see the people don't just hide in motorhomes or "briefings"

Speaking as someone who has attended many British GPs at Silverstone, I'd be grateful if you could expand on that remark. You know, just so I don't think of you as a bigoted xenophobe.

Since you are one of them, you wouldn't understand it. Nobody at Silverstone has an IQ over 3.

You know, just so I don't think of you as a bigoted xenophobe.

Since I'm English, perhaps you could explain how I could be xenophobic to my own countrymen?

[Sonic]

Hmmmm. I do hope your tongue is placed firmly in cheek.

[Tumbo]

methinks the fishermen are out

[Dave B]

Since you are one of them, you wouldn't understand it. Nobody at Silverstone has an IQ over 3.
Fair enough. I think we can safely ignore anything that you post in future. I would put you on my ignore list but dammit you're so entertaining when you're trying to be clever.

Fair enough. I think we can safely ignore anything that you post in future. I would put you on my ignore list but dammit you're so entertaining when you're trying to be clever.

Well, cleverer than a man who uses a tautology, making everything he says redundant.


bigoted xenophobe.

Proving my point about the IQ of the crowd at Silverstone, if nothing else.

http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/redundancy.html

[I am evil Homer]

Well, cleverer than a man who uses a tautology, making everything he says redundant.


Proving my point about the IQ of the crowd at Silverstone, if nothing else.

http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/redundancy.html

As opposed to someone who misunderstands what a tautology is I suppose....

[wedge]

Judging by how he runs QPR, the less we from Briatore the better!

As opposed to someone who misunderstands what a tautology is I suppose....

Let me guess, you had general admission tickets for Silverstone too?

[Dave B]

Well, cleverer than a man who uses a tautology, making everything he says redundant.

Proving my point about the IQ of the crowd at Silverstone, if nothing else.

http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/redundancy.html
Am I to take it that resorting to attacking grammar means you don't have an actual argument to back up your stance that the millions of dedicated motorsport fans who have attended Silverstone over the years are, to a man, "brain dead morons" (brain-dead should, in this instance, be hypenated by the way ;) )?

[V12]

So what's wrong with the Silverstone crowd? Specifics, examples etc.

Genuine question because I've never been there myself, well I have but never for the GP but only because I live on a tight budget and can't afford the insane admission prices (well maybe if I ate supermarket value baked beans for a year I could). I've been in 1996 for the ITC (DTM), 2000 for the Coys festival and 2001 for the BTCC and found it a great atmosphere each and every time.

I'd happily go (or have gone?) there for the Grand Prix, but right now it's behind food, shelter, balancing my credit card, saving up for a car and saving up for a trip to Le Mans on my list of financial priorities.

So what's wrong with the Silverstone crowd? Specifics, examples etc.

1) They don't know what's going on or what they are watching.
2) Without a big screen to help them, they don't even know who has won.
3) They seem to think that just because you are in a team you really want to talk to pig-ignorant people when you've got a job to do.

Am I to take it that resorting to attacking grammar means you don't have an actual argument to back up your stance that the millions of dedicated motorsport fans who have attended Silverstone over the years are, to a man, "brain dead morons" (brain-dead should, in this instance, be hypenated by the way ;) )?

Oh contraire, I have witnessed it with my own eyes.....I have seen them staring through the fence into the paddock on many occassions and can confirm that, to a man, they are gormless geeks.

[ShiftingGears]

1) They don't know what's going on or what they are watching.
2) Without a big screen to help them, they don't even know who has won.
3) They seem to think that just because you are in a team you really want to talk to pig-ignorant people when you've got a job to do.

Congratulations on overgeneralising.

[AndyL]

Genuine question because I've never been there myself, well I have but never for the GP but only because I live on a tight budget and can't afford the insane admission prices (well maybe if I ate supermarket value baked beans for a year I could). I've been in 1996 for the ITC (DTM), 2000 for the Coys festival and 2001 for the BTCC and found it a great atmosphere each and every time.

I'd happily go (or have gone?) there for the Grand Prix, but right now it's behind food, shelter, balancing my credit card, saving up for a car and saving up for a trip to Le Mans on my list of financial priorities.

F1 test days used to be a great value day out at Silverstone, before they started charging for it and then banned it, obviously. There have been some hints we might get some testing next year, but I get the impression they'll want to make it more of an "event" of it and so charge more.

Since you admit to being at Silverstone, can we then assume you are including yourself in the not having an "IQ over 3" crowd? Just asking, you know. ;)

I'd expect a moderator to have at least the ability to read. No, I was not in the "crowd".

I was working, within the paddock, on complicated aerodynamics....you know, things that make the air go "swish" in a better way....whilst the great unwashed zombies stared pathetically through the fencing that, sadly, lacked the necessary barbed wire.

[Jag_Warrior]

Tamburello, would you say that your attitude is one which is common in the F1 paddock?

Tamburello, would you say that your attitude is one which is common in the F1 paddock?

Yes.....a lot more than I suspect you would wish it to be. Nobody inside the paddock complained when the public were kept out, put it that way....including Flavio.

[Jag_Warrior]

Interesting.

[V12]

F1 test days used to be a great value day out at Silverstone, before they started charging for it and then banned it, obviously. There have been some hints we might get some testing next year, but I get the impression they'll want to make it more of an "event" of it and so charge more.

Yeah actually that reminds me when I was there in 2000 we managed to catch the back end of some F1 testing - saw Button in the Williams, Jaguars, Benettons, I also remember the McLarens with that excellent sounding Merc (probably the best sounding V10 I've heard IMO). That's actually the only time I've seen contemporary F1 cars run in anger in the flesh.

[Knock-on]

Yes.....a lot more than I suspect you would wish it to be. Nobody inside the paddock complained when the public were kept out, put it that way....including Flavio.

Well, I know people that have worked on teams in F1 and other series and have the pleasure of having met quite a few drivers, both in F1 and other series.

I think your attitude is pretty rare from my experience and the people I know enjoy the sport and the spectacle they offer the fans.

I know sometimes when they are under pressure or concentrating on preperation for a race they have little time for frivolity but generally think they are a pretty good natured bunch working in an industry they enjoy.

Not wanting to start an arguement here but seeing as 99% of the people here are the sorts of people that pay good money to press their noses up against a chain link fence, why bother joining this forum and associating with the "great unwashed"?

Not wanting to start an arguement here but seeing as 99% of the people here are the sorts of people that pay good money to press their noses up against a chain link fence, why bother joining this forum and associating with the "great unwashed"?

To rid them of their ignorance.

It's a much harder job than it originally appeared, but I have seen some signs of progress in some of the filthy urchins.

[Dave B]

How very strange. When I worked in touring car paddocks my magic pass gave me access to places the "great unwashed" could sometimes only dream of seeing. I always saw it as a massive privilege, rather than a way of sneering at the proles through the fence. Maybe it was the more convivial atmosphere of touring cars against F1; maybe it was just my upbringing.

Maybe F1 shouldn't open itself to the fans if certain posters are representative of the staff, it would create a hugely negative impression in the public's eye, and possibly drive people away from the sport. However, like Knockie, all the team members I've had contact with have been nothing but a delight so I suspect the poster's views are in a minority.

[pino]

Since you are one of them, you wouldn't understand it. Nobody at Silverstone has an IQ over 3.

This is just one of the post where you've (once again) crossed the line, I strongely suggest you cool down, watch the language and change attitude, because your next ban will be a very long one !

[Bagwan]

To rid them of their ignorance.

It's a much harder job than it originally appeared, but I have seen some signs of progress in some of the filthy urchins.

The way you write it , is sometimes more indicative of the attitude on that other side of the chain-link , than what you write .

Surely , though , the smart man on that side of the razor wire should associate the common man with the money he brings in , enabling the erection of the fence .

That same man might be prompted to show appreciation , if he made the connection .

By the way , you did teach me something today .
I looked up "tautology" .

Thanks for the "free gift" .

[jens]

For someone, who claims to have worked in F1, you seem quite intolerant in quite several aspects and discussions, tamburello. Why is that? Negative experiences from F1? :)

[BDunnell]

To rid them of their ignorance.

It's a much harder job than it originally appeared, but I have seen some signs of progress in some of the filthy urchins.

While you often have some extremely worthwhile things to say are, I am, alas, put off reading any of it by comments like that.

[Jag_Warrior]

When someone in F1 finds a cure for cancer... or even the common cold, he might have a leg to stand on. As it is, I'd say that he's walking on his knees with an attitude like that.

Illusions of grandeur much? :dozey:

Some people evidently can't handle hearing things they don't like.

[Tumbo]

i think it's more a dislike of biggoted xenophobes but take of our stance what you will

It has nothing to do with xenophobia.

That's an irrational fear....this is an active dislike brought about by experience.

[wedge]

1) They don't know what's going on or what they are watching.
2) Without a big screen to help them, they don't even know who has won.
3) They seem to think that just because you are in a team you really want to talk to pig-ignorant people when you've got a job to do.

1) & 2)Sounds like every other race meeting I've been too when my I broke my personal radio.

[wedge]

Oh contraire, I have witnessed it with my own eyes.....I have seen them staring through the fence into the paddock on many occassions and can confirm that, to a man, they are gormless geeks.

Could say the same about some of the people who work in F1.

Could say the same about some of the people who work in F1.

Geeks, yes, there are quite a few in the industry.....but gormless they are not.

Well, perhaps the ones responsible for the MP4/24 were.

[Jag_Warrior]

Some people evidently can't handle hearing things they don't like.

Apparently so. F1 is just a racing series. That's all. Neither it nor the people who work in it are that important in the grand scheme of things.

I'm truly sorry if that shatters any delusions to the contrary.

Apparently so. F1 is just a racing series. That's all. Neither it nor the people who work in it are that important in the grand scheme of things.

I'm truly sorry if that shatters any delusions to the contrary.

I'm not bothered about being considered insignificant by people who are insignificant.

[BDunnell]

I would have hoped that by having someone posting on here who had worked in F1, we would learn more about F1 than the person in question. Unfortunately, this never seems to happen.

[markabilly]

1) They don't know what's going on or what they are watching.
2) Without a big screen to help them, they don't even know who has won.
3) They seem to think that just because you are in a team you really want to talk to pig-ignorant people when you've got a job to do.

Let me meander through the tulips...and provide objective analysis and commentary....seems there has been accusaction of can not read, pigheadness, IQ of 3 and so forth, :confused: but first the most important matter:..

seems in the quoted post that Tamb is actually and accurately describing much of the inside working of F1 as well.....for example,
(1) sounds like the current ferrari pit wall boys and team
(2) Even with their tvee on, (1) is still true
(3) Kimi's attitude towards his crew, and back..."be cool, Massa baby"

and with hamilton, as demoed by his liargate, all three by team are well exhibited on all sides, except pigheaded designation would be more befit of lewias ....

So crisis over, Luca in control of F1 future..... :arrows:

[Tazio]

I guess I'm behind the times.
I think that having a good competitive race series with equity and excitement, would serve its followers well.

Of course this comes from someone that thought that the traditional organ music, and spontaneous fan reaction was preferable to blaring Rock, and having big screens that prominently display messages like "Make Noise"
at Baseball games

[Saint Devote]

People that have been around f1 for a while will remember the ATS boss named Schmidt, Gunter.

Flavio reminds me of him.

I disagree mostly with Briatore but he spot on when he calls for a return to traditional f1 venues.

[Knock-on]

I would have hoped that by having someone posting on here who had worked in F1, we would learn more about F1 than the person in question. Unfortunately, this never seems to happen.

:laugh:

Best to take a pinch of salt with some posts ;)

Like I said, I don't think you will find Tambs opinion is indicative of F1 and it's a bit disingenuous for him to assume the mantle of spokesperson :D

As for Flav, he likes sound bites but I wouldn't trust him any more than Max or Bernie.

[Saint Devote]

Why have teams at all then? Just super-size Formula Palmer Audi.
That's a fine way to give young drivers a (relatively) cheap way to hone and display their driving skills but it is not the makings of a genuine international championship.

Pit stops are not a "distortion" IMO but an opportunity for different tactical decisions that can keep the outcome of a race open until the late stages. Without them many races would be decided at the first corner given current downforce levels. The way I see it there is a choice: keep pit stops and keep F1 as a 14,000 horsepower chess match (nothing wrong with that), or reduce downforce to enable close following and overtaking. And I don't mean fiddling about with blocking up holes in diffusers, I mean something like a 75% reduction in downforce. As long as F1 remains the technical pinnacle of motor racing, F1 cars will have more aerodynamic downforce than anything else, and consequently overtaking will be more difficult than in any other formula.

Well then, it is high time to eradicate areodynamics and, let engine power, fat tyres and mechanical grip allow the real racing drivers to do the talking.

The late great Gilles Villeneuve, as well as Enzo Ferrari and Jenks were of this view - and they remain correct.

The introduction of racing cars becoming ground types of aircraft was the worst.

Fill the cars up, and let the best drivers race around for 2 hours and see who wins.

Thats motor racing. And anyone ever witnessing Ronnie Peterson powersliding around the proper Woodcote or Gilles Villeneuve driving would arrive at the same conclusion.

And the drivers of today would love it, especially real racers such as Button, Raikonnen, Hamilton and Alonso.

Perhaps Tamb would like to confirm the team he works/worked for?? I very much doubt it...

Then your doubts are misplaced.

I worked for Mazda (Le Mans) , Benetton, Joest (Le Mans) Jordan, Audi (Consultant for the R8, not full team member) & Renault (again as a consultant).

Retired after that.

Well if true, this is quite an impressive CV... Why have you developed such a hatred for Britsh motorsport fans seeing as quite a chunk of your experience appears to have stemed from the United Kingdom? In fact within throwing distance from Silverstone itself..

If some of your remarks had been aimed at German or Italian fans there would be a backlash of huge proportions... Maybe us Brits are way too tolerent :confused: I for one was very offended by some of your comments...

Well, since I have dual nationality and one of those entitles me to hold a British passport, it certainly isn't xenophobia.

For me, the simple fact is that the "fans" don't know enough to warrant an opinion....and all they are capable of providing are decisions and ideas based on the lowest common denominator.

[ioan]

For me, the simple fact is that the "fans" don't know enough to warrant an opinion....and all they are capable of providing are decisions and ideas based on the lowest common denominator.

I have to agree with this.
More than 90% of those who consider themselves to be F1 fans don't even know the basics about F1.
99% never ever knew more than what they here on the telly about F1 and if we consider that some of them think that Murray Walker is/was a knowledgeable F1 commentator than you realize that they can't possibly know much.

[AndyL]

For me, the simple fact is that the "fans" don't know enough to warrant an opinion....

Sounds like you would prefer it if the fans would just pay their money and shut up :rolleyes:

[ioan]

Sounds like you would prefer it if the fans would just pay their money and shut up :rolleyes:

I think we would simply prefer some (not all) of the fans to shut up, and I can somewhat understand him.

Sounds like you would prefer it if the fans would just pay their money and shut up :rolleyes:

If they are stupid enough to pay Silverstone prices, then it seems pretty apparent they have neither intelligence or taste, so it would be for the best if they did.

[ioan]

If you want to see a GP in this country then you have no choice... If fans from a country which has provided a fair amount of the F1 history, are as dull as you think, then I would like to know your opinion on the most knowledgable of fans in the world? You are welcome to have an opinion but this is just insulting...

Why do you think that British fans are the most knowledgeable fans in the world because the country might have provided a fair amount of the F1 history :?:
Isn't this some kind of Murrayism?!

If you want to see a GP in this country then you have no choice

You can choose to go abroad.



It seems to me that this rant of yours is purely designed to wind up the British members on this forum rather than have any truthfull substance


The old "If its critical, it's just a wind-up" response.




I have agreed with alot of what you have said in the past, but after reading this rubbish, your credibility within this group has taken a serious nose dive.. :rolleyes:

Like I give a toss?

[Bagwan]

If you want to see a GP in this country then you have no choice... If fans from a country which has provided a fair amount of the F1 history, are as dull as you think, then I would like to know your opinion on the most knowledgable of fans in the world? You are welcome to have an opinion but this is just insulting...

It seems to me that this rant of yours is purely designed to wind up the British members on this forum rather than have any truthfull substance.. Maybe water colour painting would be a more appropiate pass time for your retirement as you are obviously bored? There are only 3 members to my knowledge on this forum who attack other nations through there rants, and this is just plain weak IMO...

I have agreed with alot of what you have said in the past, but after reading this rubbish, your credibility within this group has taken a serious nose dive.. :rolleyes:

Henners , Tamburello displays exactly the attitude that he contends to have existed when he was in the paddock .
Don't act so surprised .

It's easy to see from where the roots of the attitude come , as these guys don't want or need the spectator getting in the way of putting on the show when the show is what they came to see .

I can't imagine the inane questions that the crew would be asked , if Joe Average walked up , as firstly , Joe's knowledge would be pretty minimal in comparison to the technician , and secondly , he would likely be pretty star-struck and unlikely to communicate properly anyway , under pressure from those queued behind .

There every chance he or she would come off looking like a slack-jawed yokel to the techy .

I think it might be pretty easy for those on the other side to get a bit jaded about the whole thing , when they want to get a high pressure job done .

It's a bit of a catch-22 , really .
You love'em , but they are a pain in the a$$ . Note the $$ in the last word . They do not represent the letter "s" .

Oh, and the French motorsport enthusiasts have always been, in my experience, far more knowledgeable than the Great British lager-lout type.

They see beyond the flag waving a lot better.

Henners , Tamburello displays exactly the attitude that he contends to have existed when he was in the paddock .
Don't act so surprised .

It's easy to see from where the roots of the attitude come , as these guys don't want or need the spectator getting in the way of putting on the show when the show is what they came to see .

I can't imagine the inane questions that the crew would be asked , if Joe Average walked up , as firstly , Joe's knowledge would be pretty minimal in comparison to the technician , and secondly , he would likely be pretty star-struck and unlikely to communicate properly anyway , under pressure from those queued behind .

There every chance he or she would come off looking like a slack-jawed yokel to the techy .

I think it might be pretty easy for those on the other side to get a bit jaded about the whole thing , when they want to get a high pressure job done .

It's a bit of a catch-22 , really .
You love'em , but they are a pain in the a$$ . Note the $$ in the last word . They do not represent the letter "s" .

Exactly, albeit put much more subtlety than I can be bothered to.

[Bagwan]

How do Canadians fare , on the list ?
Seriously , I want to know . This isn't a crack .

Thats all fair enough but why would British fans be singled out in such a strange way?

Because they are generally the worst.

How do Canadians fare , on the list ?
Seriously , I want to know . This isn't a crack .

French Canadians or normal ones?

[Bagwan]

French Canadians or normal ones?

You must be avoiding the question , since you've seen my flag , because you don't want to hurt my feelings .
If I can deal with a referendum , I can take the truth .

Go ahead , bake my croissant .

[ioan]

Well this just sums up my point really doesn't it...

Whats this obsession with Murray Walker, since when has he been an ambassador for British fans?

So you would say that the input from Britain into F1 is very limited would you ioan? I'm not trying to get all nationalistic here but some of the greatest teams and engineers over the years have been British.. Its a fact whether people care to admit it or not... Theres nothing big headed in this remark but is something I am proud of. Sure there are people who believe F1 is Ferrari but hey, what can I say?

I have not said that British fans are the most knowledgable at any point, but for people to step in and start dissmissing half the grid is just naive..

You completely misread/misunderstood my post and went defensive. What could I add?

[ioan]

I think I must have done :confused:

Murrayism is saying something not really correct, but believing it and being overly enthusiastic about it.
And I said that your assumption was some kind of Murraysims because it had no logical background.

Just because some guys from a certain nation did well in a certain domain, it doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the nation are knowledgeable in said domain.

France, Germany, Italy, GB, Japan and USA in no specific order, really, all contributed a lot to automotive industry and to automotive sport. However this doesn't mean that people from Slovenia, for example, aren't more knowledgeable motorsport fans than fans from the countries listed above.

There might be something with British supporters why Tam doesn't like them, I don't know why, but hey each of us is a different and singular person.

[Bagwan]

"There might be something with British supporters why Tam doesn't like them, I don't know why, but hey each of us is a different and singular person."

Did Tam not say he worked at Renault ?
Could this give him a french tint to his glasses ? I thought they were red .

[Bagwan]

There is no word yet on whether Canadians are clever or not .
I'm getting worried that I won't like the answer .

[ioan]

Perhaps someone threw a beer can at him at the British GP and cost his driver the race, who knows? I have never met a Slovenian F1 fan and can't imagine that throughout many years of civil war, they would have had their priorities set on following F1..No offence meant here btw... But you do have a valid point.. ;)

I think you are mistaking the Slovenians with another ex-Yugoslavian nation, cause they didn't have too much civil war in contemporary times:



In 1990, Slovenia abandoned its communist infrastructure, the first free and democratic elections were held, and the DEMOS coalition defeated the former Communist parties. The state reconstituted itself as Republic of Slovenia. In December 1990, the overwhelming majority of Slovenian citizens voted for independence, which was declared on 25 June 1991. A Ten-Day War followed in which the Slovenians rejected Yugoslav military interference. After 1990, a stable democratic system evolved, with economic liberalisation and gradual growth of prosperity. Slovenia joined NATO on 29 March 2004 and the European Union on 1 May 2004. Slovenia was the first post-Communist country to hold the Presidency of the Council of the European Union, for the first six months of 2008.

[Bagwan]

How do you keep a Canadian in suspense ?

[ioan]

There is no word yet on whether Canadians are clever or not .
I'm getting worried that I won't like the answer .

Maybe he's just having a great peperoni pizza before giving you the answer. ;)

[ioan]

How do you keep a Canadian in suspense ?

By the looks of it, easily! :)

[Firstgear]

Retired after that.

You spelt retarded wrong. But after reading your posts in this thread, most of us will know what you were trying to spell there.

[ioan]

You spelt retarded wrong. But after reading your posts in this thread, most of us will know what you were trying to spell there.

That was uncalled for.

[Bagwan]

You spelt retarded wrong. But after reading your posts in this thread, most of us will know what you were trying to spell there.

How un-Canadian . You from Cow-town , bubba ?

[Firstgear]

Judging by the brain dead morons who attended Silverstone over the years, they are the last people who should be asked.

The guy makes a statement like this, and then defends it with at least a dozen equally, or more insulting posts.

What other conclusion could I come to, other than he has a few screws loose?

[AndyL]

French Canadians or normal ones?

I can't quite tell if that's just poor phrasing or a calculated dig at French Canadians.

My apologies for the delay in my reply, Bagwan, but I just had to capture on canvas the summer light across the valley.

Anyhow - Canadians, French or otherwise, were quite charming. Not neccesarily the most technically savvy nor politically astute, but charming nonetheless.

Although evidently they've let their standards slip recently in some quarters.

Whats your nationality Tamb?

What are my nationalities, you mean?

I was born in Rome, to an English mother and a French father, so take your pick!