And Finally - 2010 entry list

[Knock-on]

SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO FERRARI
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER F1 TEAM BMW SAUBER
RENAULT F1 TEAM RENAULT
PANASONIC TOYOTA RACING TOYOTA
SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO STR TBA
RED BULL RACING RBR TBA
AT&T WILLIAMS WILLIAMS TOYOTA
FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM BRAWN TBA
CAMPOS META TEAM CAMPOS COSWORTH
MANOR GRAND PRIX MANOR COSWORTH
TEAM US F1 TEAM US F1 COSWORTH

[F1boat]

Sounds cool :)

[UltimateDanGTR]

I disagree F1boat. First off, red bull shouldnt be allowed 2 teams when there were plenty of other teams trying to get a spot. Lola should be there, as should prodrive. actually, Lotus and Epsilon Euskadi should be there aswell. we should have 16 teams, all trying to qualify, it should be like the good old days.

but no..........

[VkmSpouge]

Not a bad entry list, I hope this whole row hasn't disrupted Campos, US and Manor's preparations too much.

[yodasarmpit]

Two Red Bull teams and no Prodrive, something is wrong with that picture.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Two Red Bull teams and no Prodrive, something is wrong with that picture.

my centiments exactly. I now officially am against Toro Rosso-they should not be there, someone should buy them out and so they have nothing to do with red bull-they shouldn't be allowed to have 2 teams. ridiculous.

[Sonic]

I disagree. Torro Rosso should not be singled out as they are a B team. Rather we should be complaining about the artificial limit to the grid. Why 26 cars? The tracks have starting limits inbuilt into their licence but most are allowed to field a grid of 30+ so why enforce the lower limit? I'd allow anyone to enter and to weed out the crud have prequalifying to get down to the individual circuits max grid number and then reinstate something like the 107% rule for qualifying proper.

[DazzlaF1]

I disagree. Torro Rosso should not be singled out as they are a B team. Rather we should be complaining about the artificial limit to the grid. Why 26 cars? The tracks have starting limits inbuilt into their licence but most are allowed to field a grid of 30+ so why enforce the lower limit? I'd allow anyone to enter and to weed out the crud have prequalifying to get down to the individual circuits max grid number and then reinstate something like the 107% rule for qualifying proper.

With the current qualifying format and the cars being so close in terms of times, the 107% rule is a bit pointless now.

I agree with bringing back the old rule, a limit of 30 cars with the top 26 qualifying for races, blow an engine without setting a time, tough luck, you dont race.

[ioan]

I disagree F1boat. First off, red bull shouldnt be allowed 2 teams when there were plenty of other teams trying to get a spot.

That's BS.

[MJW]

I am very disappointed that Prodrive are not there, some odd things gone on in the selection of the 3 teams that made it, FFS USGP or whatever they are called dont even exist, let alone have any racing heritage, -purely political to get interest in the USA, hope it flops and NASCAR rules....

[harvick#1]

my centiments exactly. I now officially am against Toro Rosso-they should not be there, someone should buy them out and so they have nothing to do with red bull-they shouldn't be allowed to have 2 teams. ridiculous.

look at wins:

STR: 1
Toyota: 0

:D I see who doesnt belong

[VkmSpouge]

I don't particularly like Red Bull owning two teams but I wouldn't ever force them to give up one team. I imagine though at some point someone in the business will think that owning two F1 teams is one more than they really need.

[Hawkmoon]

Let's have a look at the future...

2010 - USF1, Manor and Campos prop up the grid making Vijay Mallya feel good about the world. Towards the end of the season rumours surface of funding issues with Campos.

2011 - Grid drops to 24 cars as Campos fail to find sufficient funding in a budget-cap-less F1 and fold. USF1 and Manor still prop up the grid continuing Vijay Mallya's good feelings about the world.

2012 - USF1 and Manor close up shop as the reality of starting a new team hits home hard. 2 years of no results and the resultant lack of sponsorship consign both to the recordbooks and an entry on F1Rejects.com. Vijay Mallya starts feeling less content with the world.

2013 - F1 returns to the same 10 teams as 2009 with the usual suspects winning and normality is restored to the world. The sun is shining, the sky is blue and everybody feels good about the world. Except for Vijay Mallya who's return to the bottom of the grid has left him feeling decidedly not-good about the world.

Pessimistic or realistic? Time will tell but I'm willing to bet we lose 2 of the 3 new teams within 3 years.

[harvick#1]

I don't particularly like Red Bull owning two teams but I wouldn't ever force them to give up one team. I imagine though at some point someone in the business will think that owning two F1 teams is one more than they really need.

but isnt it no more customer chassis for next season, which will force STR to build their own

[CNR]

Two Red Bull teams and no Prodrive, something is wrong with that picture.

do you think prodrive having a spot and pulling out may have some thing to do with it
the other thing is touro rosso is for sale

[DazzlaF1]

but isnt it no more customer chassis for next season, which will force STR to build their own
They'll find a way to get round it, their STR5 will be a Red Bull RB6 in everything but name (apart from the engine obviously)

[CNR]

They'll find a way to get round it, their STR5 will be a Red Bull RB6 in everything but name (apart from the engine obviously)

at this point red bull and toro rosso have no engine deal so they could both run cosworth engine

[Somebody]

at this point red bull and toro rosso have no engine deal so they could both run cosworth engine

Why would they WANT to? The Cosworths are so down on power, they're talking about having a higher rev limit just for them. And with that, the odds on them blowing up more have to be higher - are they also going to be allowed more than eight engines a season?

[woody2goody]

It's definitely the limit that's the problem, and not Toro Rosso. At least have a 30 car limit. that's reasonable, especially when all the cars are so competitive. It's rare anyone gets lapped twice in a race now if they have a trouble-free run.

Even if the new teams struggle, it's unlikely that they would get lapped more than twice. Then 30 would be ok.

I'm really happy, we can now enjoy the rest of 09 in peace and enter the new decade with a 26 car grid just like how it used to be :)

[Ranger]

but isnt it no more customer chassis for next season, which will force STR to build their own

Customer cars aren't allowed now, STR have been getting through the same loophole for several years now, as 'Red Bull Technology' design the car, not Red Bull Racing.

Are they actually changing the rules so that this loophole doesn't exist for next year?

[mstillhere]

SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO FERRARI
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER F1 TEAM BMW SAUBER
RENAULT F1 TEAM RENAULT
PANASONIC TOYOTA RACING TOYOTA
SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO STR TBA
RED BULL RACING RBR TBA
AT&T WILLIAMS WILLIAMS TOYOTA
FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM BRAWN TBA
CAMPOS META TEAM CAMPOS COSWORTH
MANOR GRAND PRIX MANOR COSWORTH
TEAM US F1 TEAM US F1 COSWORTH

But now without budget caps how would the new teams be able to compete? What are their ambitions? Just to be in F1 I guess.

[ioan]

I don't particularly like Red Bull owning two teams but I wouldn't ever force them to give up one team. I imagine though at some point someone in the business will think that owning two F1 teams is one more than they really need.

Than they will sell one of them, and if Prodrive is really interested they will buy it.

[ioan]

but isnt it no more customer chassis for next season, which will force STR to build their own

STR already stated that next season they will build their chassis, sure using the Red Bull technology plans!

[jens]

About that STR debate - I'm not really fond of B-teams either. It would be more interesting if that team was sold to a newcomer, but who? I doubt Prodrive would buy it, since they have their own factory. Same with Lola.



Pessimistic or realistic? Time will tell but I'm willing to bet we lose 2 of the 3 new teams within 3 years.

You're optimistic that those new teams will make it to the grid at all. :p :

[555-04Q2]

About that STR debate - I'm not really fond of B-teams either. It would be more interesting if that team was sold to a newcomer, but who? I doubt Prodrive would buy it, since they have their own factory. Same with Lola.



You're optimistic that those new teams will make it to the grid at all. :p :

My thoughts exactly!

[veeten]

I look at it this way...

With the new rules agreed upon, based on spending circa early 90's, this means that we will see a renaisance of F1. New teams and new manufacturers coming in under a more reasonable financial table.

Here's to more coming after '12...

[christophulus]

I see 2010 being a year with six super-slow cars at the back, as they won't be able to find £100m to compete with the big teams initially. Mid-way through next year the big teams will have found ways to bypass the cap/limit (whatever), or justify spending far more than was agreed, and the new teams will slide further back.

I'm surprised none of the new teams have bought Toro Rosso yet. Getting your hands on the plans of what is essentially the RB5 would be an enormous head start!

[UltimateDanGTR]

look at wins:

STR: 1
Toyota: 0

:D I see who doesnt belong

well thats a fair point, :D , but its like red bull are hogging it a bit. that annoys me.

[ioan]

I see 2010 being a year with six super-slow cars at the back, as they won't be able to find £100m to compete with the big teams initially. Mid-way through next year the big teams will have found ways to bypass the cap/limit (whatever), or justify spending far more than was agreed, and the new teams will slide further back.

I'm surprised none of the new teams have bought Toro Rosso yet. Getting your hands on the plans of what is essentially the RB5 would be an enormous head start!

First of all next year there will be now budget cap, in fact there will be no budget cap after that either.

[ioan]

well thats a fair point, :D , but its like red bull are hogging it a bit. that annoys me.

If it annoys you than you should buy STR.

[nigelred5]

But now without budget caps how would the new teams be able to compete? What are their ambitions? Just to be in F1 I guess.

Considering USF1 announced their plans prior to MM's budget cap proposal, I'll assume they were prepared to compete with 200m+ budgets from the start. Can't speak to the others. I say don't limit car numbers in any way, I'd not be adverse to seeing 1 car teams allowed. Allow a start up squad campaign a single car for two seasons, and require they add the second car by season 3. Allow a start up team to run a test car that can run limited test miles only at non F1 tracks to offset the competetive disadvantage of having only one car on track.

[e2mtt]

I'm going to be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for TEAM US F1 to beat Force India! Woohoo that will be sweet.

Is Torro Rosso available & for sale?

[christophulus]

First of all next year there will be now budget cap, in fact there will be no budget cap after that either.

True, they've committed to a "reduction" in spending, although the established teams will always have a few quid more than the new teams so I reckon the gap will remain.

[UltimateDanGTR]

If it annoys you than you should buy STR.

as much as id love to, in these financial times id think it to be a bad investment. oh, and id have to use rover engines cos thats all i could afford. then there is the prospect of coming behind campos or manor, blimey.......

[maximilian]

Yeah, it remains to be seen which of the new teams will really make it to the grid, although with the apparently promised technical help from existing teams, it may not be such a problem, even without the budget cap at where they thought it would be. I also still think that one or 2 of the existing teams will experience a change... I can't really see RedBull keeping Toro Rosso around, seeing how their main team is now performing... it doesn't make sense to frequent both ends of the grid, and they will probably wanna sell it as soon as they can... so we may see one of those other new entries that were denied buy up STR. And one of the manufacturers may still pull out/sell out (a la Renault becoming Briatore Racing).

I just hope whatever happens along those lines, we'll really have 26 cars on the grid. Or why not more now? Since the teams are apparenly in control and want to make the series more fan-friendly... and MOST of us agree, we would like to see MORE cars on the grid (or rather, trying to qualify for the race), they might as well take a second look at the worthy applicants which were turned down (for reasons still mysterious), and maybe bump it up to 15 or 16 teams...

[Dave B]

Are there any "reserve" teams for when Renault and Toyota pull out?

[V12]

I agree with all those that say it's the entry cap and not Toro Rosso that's the problem. I'm with those who'd rather see natural selection carried out on the track (via qualifying and if necessary pre-qualifying) rather than by an FIA auditing process.

[CNR]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/148935/1/fry_f1_entry_could_change.html

Fry: F1 entry could change




Brawn GP CEO Nick Fry has admitted that the F1 entry list confirmed in the wake of Wednesday's conflict resolution between FIA president Max Mosley and teams' group FOTA may not be the same as that which lines up in the 2010 season opener.

Referring to the abolition of the £40m budget cap that Mosley had tried to impose on the teams currently competing in the top flight, Fry conceded that the higher figures now likely to be competitive could rule out the participation of all or some of the three teams welcomed into the fold three weeks ago. All three were among the 15 bids fielded by Mosley in the wake of confirmation that the budget cap would remain in force, but Wednesday's accord altered the playing field significantly, with FOTA only agreeing to bring spending down to 'early 1990's levels within two years'.

While US F1, Campos Grand Prix and Manor F1 all appeared on the entries issued on 12 June and, again, on Wednesday, Fry questioned whether all three would decide to continue with their bid should more money be required to be competitive, and admitted that it was not beyond the bounds of possibility that one of the 'rejected' candidates could be included instead.

[Sonic]

Are there any "reserve" teams for when Renault and Toyota pull out?

Haven't all present teams signed BIG money penalty contracts commiting themselves to F1 Until at least 2012?

[tintop]

as much as id love to, in these financial times id think it to be a bad investment. oh, and id have to use rover engines cos thats all i could afford. then there is the prospect of coming behind campos or manor, blimey.......

ignoring the human butter churn is a better tactic :D

[woody2goody]

well thats a fair point, :D , but its like red bull are hogging it a bit. that annoys me.

I kinda know what you mean. STR obviously aren't getting TOO much help from RBR this season after last year.

STR have a better engine, but aren't yet getting the updates that RBR have, and look, they are at the back.

Bourdais and Buemi must be really frustrated when they see essentially the same car as theirs with an inferior engine and a few updates winning races.

[tintop]

I look at it this way...

With the new rules agreed upon, based on spending circa early 90's, this means that we will see a renaisance of F1. New teams and new manufacturers coming in under a more reasonable financial table.

Here's to more coming after '12...

Agreed, too bad Lotus aren't in the first round though for sentimentality sake.

[jens]

I kinda know what you mean. STR obviously aren't getting TOO much help from RBR this season after last year.

STR have a better engine, but aren't yet getting the updates that RBR have, and look, they are at the back.

Bourdais and Buemi must be really frustrated when they see essentially the same car as theirs with an inferior engine and a few updates winning races.

Arguably Renault was allowed tp upgrade its engine in winter, so I really don't think it's inferior at the moment.

[Somebody]

Agreed, too bad Lotus aren't in the first round though for sentimentality sake.

Why? At least the likes of Ferrari and McLaren have a continuous lineage from the teams founded by Enzo & Bruce. Someone coming in under the "Lotus" name, like the LiteSpeed shower that briefly tried it, would be explicitly passing off on the reputation of Colin Chapman's original team with no actual connection.

[paddocknews]

Pedro De la Rosa signs two-year contract with Campos Meta? http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/07/917220

[jens]

Pedro De la Rosa signs two-year contract with Campos Meta? http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/07/917220

Wow, have we got a new Nigel Mansell or Jacques Laffite of modern era? This guy will be 40-41 years old during the next two years.