The next FIA president, who?

[Ranger]

Mosley is not standing for re-election.

Assuming he doesn't change his mind, someone has to replace him, but who?

Any prominent FIA figures from your country that you would like to nominate? :p :

[SteveMcQueen]

I hereby officially nominate Walter Röhrl.

:D

[Cooper_S]

So long as he is not connected too strongly with F1 than he may stand half a chance...

[Mark]

It's difficult to pick someone out who hasn't upset a large portion fo the F1 community at one time or another.

Although perhaps Bernie will take over!!

Though I think it's between Micheal Martin and Tony Blair.

[markabilly]

Although perhaps Bernie will take over!!

.

He just did, :rolleyes:

well actually, he did that a long time ago, bought off maX for 300 million to get the f1 rights, cut a sweet deal with Ferrari at the last threat of a breakaway ("their hands ain't big enough to hold my balls") :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

maX just forgot who calls the shots, and got bernie all upset at the USA gp, about not having the chicane, and the rest was downhill in their relationship----everybody kept saying RD was "behind" the filming in the S&M, but I always wondered if bernie was not involved there somewhere...... :dozey:

whoever it is, will be somebody who will do what bernei tells them to do

[V12]

Ideally, someone who has sod-all interest in motor sport and leaves them to get on with it, just like Mosley (falsely) promised he would do in 1991.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

[Ranger]

Ideally, someone who has sod-all interest in motor sport and leaves them to get on with it, just like Mosley (falsely) promised he would do in 1991.

To be honest, there wasn't too much to complain about from 1991-2003. It's only in the past few years that he went a bit silly.

[V12]

To be honest, there wasn't too much to complain about from 1991-2003. It's only in the past few years that he went a bit silly.

That's very true, although it's the last six years that (naturally) stick in the mind the most, and the fact remains that he did break his promise, even if it took him 12 years to do so :P


Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Maybe Dinner Jacket can rig this election as well?

[markabilly]

To be honest, there wasn't too much to complain about from 1991-2003. It's only in the past few years that he went a bit silly.
you mean about maX, or about how the fans were getting F***** over?
In the lattter, Bernie gets more of the glory than maXine, as I said in other thread, the wrong little man is leaving us, and i wonder how much luca will get under the table for himself?????????????
max got 300 million.....

[AndyRAC]

I hereby officially nominate Walter Röhrl.

:D

Or Ari Vatanen.....

[markabilly]

Or Ari Vatanen.....
or bush, jr.....he knows how to be a figurehead, and sit around, doing nothing :rolleyes:

[K-Pu]

Or me if I can be bought by Bernie.

What? Why do you look at me that way? It´s what they´ve just done!

[woody2goody]

As long as it's not di Montezemolo, Todt or Ron Dennis then I don't really care.

This might sound daft but I reckon Michael Schumacher would do a good job.

[Easy Drifter]

If, as I posted in another thread, Mad Max doesn't break his word yet again and run I nominate Eki. :eek: :D
If you do not know who Eki is read Chit Chat. :confused:

[Knock-on]

If, as I posted in another thread, Mad Max doesn't break his word yet again and run I nominate Eki. :eek: :D
If you do not know who Eki is read Chit Chat. :confused:

Oh blimey, he makes ioan look moderate :rolleyes: :eek:

[ioan]

Oh blimey, he makes ioan look moderate :rolleyes: :eek:

What a backstabber you are, Brutus! :p :

[Knock-on]

What a backstabber you are, Brutus! :p :

et tu Brute ;)

[I am evil Homer]

As long as it's not di Montezemolo, Todt or Ron Dennis then I don't really care.

This might sound daft but I reckon Michael Schumacher would do a good job.

Maybe but he's too aligned with Ferrari and certain elements in motorsport may not like that plus he's too F1 biased....FIA needs an allrounder.

Todt at least has experience of Rallying, Sportscars and F1.

[SteveMcQueen]

As long as it's not di Montezemolo, Todt or Ron Dennis then I don't really care.

This might sound daft but I reckon Michael Schumacher would do a good job.
If any one of these clowns, MS included, would become the next FIA frontman, than we ain't seen nothing yet....

Max was Max but at least he was independent from the current breed of competitors in the field and had no ties to any brand.

The more involvement of manufacturers we will see in the future, the worse it's going to be, believe me.

What a backstabber you are, Brutus! :p :


et tu Brute ;)

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me!

Copyright Kenneth Williams, Carry On Cleo.

[harvick#1]

Brian France, get him the f*** out of Nascar and the FIA can have him :D

[ClarkFan]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

So, you are in favor of no change in managment style?

:rolleyes:

ClarkFan

[Easy Drifter]

I am in one of my totally irreverent moods.
How about Wade91?
Again check out Chit Chat in the frivolous threads.

So, you are in favor of no change in managment style?

:rolleyes:

ClarkFan

Well, I do hope the next President is a cxxt, if that's what you mean.

The worst thing is a wishy-washy try-to-please-everybody ineffective puppet, as that will do nothing to keep F1 egos in check.

[woody2goody]

Maybe but he's too aligned with Ferrari and certain elements in motorsport may not like that plus he's too F1 biased....FIA needs an allrounder.

Todt at least has experience of Rallying, Sportscars and F1.

So by deduction, the best man for the job is Stephane Sarrazin ;)

What about Dave Richards?

[Knock-on]

What about Dave Richards?

That is a great suggestion and one I have mentioned before.

He is one of the best qualified people for the job IMHO.

Used to dealing with politics
Can run a sucessful race business
Experience of many levels of motorsport
Is a hard nosed b*stard
etc

And Max hates him so he can't be too bad. :D

[Hondo]

I think it will be Max.

My second choice would be me.

I think an agrument could be made for Mario Andretti. He has participated in many forms of racing as an owner and as a driver. He's been successful in many different venues. He has a good public image

[F1boat]

I also would like to see Todt as FIA President.

[Nikki Katz]

Didn't Fred Goodwin say that he was interested in this job last year? He's certainly corrupt enough :)

I doubt it'll be a former driver, they wouldn't have friends in the right places. It'll most likely be Todt.

[71minus2]

As long as it's not di Montezemolo, Todt or Ron Dennis then I don't really care.

You should also add Ioan to that list. personally i'd give it to Clarkson.

[race_director]

micheal schumacher for president .

GO schumi go

[dwboogityfan]

Dave Richards would be a good choice but I like the suggestion of Ari Vatanen. He comes across as a very knowledgable man with a love for motorsport and that is exactly what we need.
I have a horrible feeling that FOTA will put somebody up for election like Luca di Montezemolo and we will soon have more problems within F1.

[Lemmy-Boy]

In terms of finance and future races, the next president of FIA still doesn't change a thing. CVC & Bernie are still required to make those enormous interest payments to the banks that helped financed FOM. This means more of the same thing, such as inflated promotion fees, additional races in dictator states, third world countries or nations that don't give a dam about F1.

Long live the alliance!!! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/spin2.gif

[jens]

Next FIA president?

Err, Max Mosley? :erm:
Someone else from the FIA system, who is close to Max...
Jean Todt as part of Max-Luca/FOTA deal?

Can't think of anyone else at the moment, who could realistically (not ideally) be in that role.

[schmenke]

In terms of finance and future races, the next president of FIA still doesn't change a thing. CVC & Bernie are still required to make those enormous interest payments to the banks that helped financed FOM. This means more of the same thing, such as inflated promotion fees, additional races in dictator states, third world countries or nations that don't give a dam about F1. ...

All of which are negotiated and administered by FOM, not the FIA.

Todt, on the surface, is the obvious choice but both his close ties to Ferrari and his relative lack of experience with the WRC (as well as the myriad of other championships that the FIA govern) means he's an unlikey candidate.

[SGWilko]

Lord March - the guy that owns goodwood.

[Robinho]

what do you have to do to run for FIA president anyway - do you have to be part of the organistaion, or nominated by a member country or org? or can anyone play? do they have to have a motorsport background, or could we have a Mahwinney situation?

we all seem to enjoy nominating our favourties - Todt, Richards etc, but are they even eligible?

how about Damon Hill?

[Sonic]

Mr J Stewart is my hearts choice.

Jean todt is my head.

[Koz]

Corrado Provera anyone?

Jean Todt is FAR too closely linked to Ferrari.

[Almeidafoto]

In one way or another it will be Bernie Ecclestone, as in practice he already is. No matter what name the next president will have he will always be under Bernie«s orders.
I say this because, someone with balls - like Walter Rohrl as 'Steve McQueen' suggested - would have to face plenty of lobbies to be elected...

[BDunnell]

I think Ari Vatanen would be an extremely admirable choice. The same goes for Lord Drayson or François Fillon, both also politicians with an extremely keen interest in motorsport?.

[Ghostwalker]

i would like too see someone who isnt or hasnt been too involved in a single branch of motorsports.
Like if the new Pr. is a F1 person it might be good for F1 but not so good for Touring car racing or Rallying and etc since they might get neglected.
The new Pr. should work for all branches and not just F1 or Rally or WTCC

When it comes to the organisation of FIA i would like to see sub-directors each responsible for one branch,maybe even a small department for each branch like rally or Formula cars or Touring cars or GT-racing... These sub directors would as experts of their branch be the head of their respective branch department and should function like a link between the branches and the head president.

I also think the new Pr should be considerably younger then MM, maybe around 45, 50 at the most.

the new Pr would preferably have ideas on howto improve the status of motorsports (m.sp.) worldwide. I dont know what its like in other countries but in Sweden imo it sometimes feels like m.sp. is a bit unwelcome or not good enough for media to do proper reports from. The motorsport that is available (speedway, F1/DTm/Motogp(STCC) is almost eniterly on pay tv (canal+/Viatsat Motor imo the latter one is very mediocre when it comes to the standard of the broadcast).

The new Pr. also have to be able to listen to branch people on how they want it. The new Pr. definitely need to get the 3 biggest branches back on track after the past years downward spiral. Especially the WTCC and WRC seems to be a big messes with questionable behavior from the FIA (like the engine rules in WTCC) or the 9am-5pm rallies of WRC as wellas the WRC turning into a "low cost series. Instead of being the pinnacle of Rallying.

I also think that the new Pr. should try to bring all branches of FIA motorsport closer together so that they can colloborate easier and take advantages of each others knowledges. and why not also try to collaborate with the FIM (m.sps.) aswell.

woh sorry for this long post that partially might be a bit offtopic. The things above is more or less just ideas that popped up while writing it so there is probably some stuff missing.

[ioan]

All of which are negotiated and administered by FOM, not the FIA.

Todt, on the surface, is the obvious choice but both his close ties to Ferrari and his relative lack of experience with the WRC (as well as the myriad of other championships that the FIA govern) means he's an unlikey candidate.

FGS, Todt was a rally co-driver, before being a rally team manager, a LeMans team manager and a Formula 1 team manager. :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

I associate Todt just as closely with Peugeot — hell, with Talbot! — as I do with Ferrari.

[schmenke]

FGS...

Was that necessary?


Thanks for the reminder.

[maximilian]

Gerhard Berger.

[Valve Bounce]

Mr J Stewart is my hearts choice.

.

I was waiting for someone to come up with Jackie. He was a great driver, a champion, went into F1 so he knows the ropes and the rules required, and he was unbiased in his criticisms. He is also a Scott, not a Pom.

So, in my book, he qualifies on all counts. Sorry that Sonic's post got buried at the bottom of page 2, so a good bump will focus attention where it is needed.

[maximilian]

I would really prefer some one who isn't a geezer, for a change... :rolleyes:

[race_director]

Mr J Stewart is my hearts choice.

Jean todt is my head.


stewart the guy who shows up in a skirt??

RU serious :(

[Valve Bounce]

stewart the guy who shows up in a skirt??

RU serious :(

Very serious. In case you are not aware, HSBC has been run very efficiently by the Scots for many, many years. I have nothing against kilts - just don't go poking around under one, that's all.

[wmcot]

I expect it will be Todt due to his wide experience. Eddie Jordan would be an interesting choice!

I think it MUST be someone with motorsport experience and a level head. And, looking back over Max's tenure, I think a thorough psychological exam every year or two is in order to certify the president is not getting senile!

(Please, NOT Matt Bishop!) ;)

[F1boat]

Very serious. In case you are not aware, HSBC has been run very efficiently by the Scots for many, many years. I have nothing against kilts - just don't go poking around under one, that's all.

Jackie is too Pro-McLaren and too anti-Ferrari, IMO. Worst choice possible.

[ioan]

Was that necessary?


Thanks for the reminder.

More than necessary IMO.

[pino]

Cesare Fiorio is the perfect choice :D

[Mark]

Remember of course the FIA isn't just in charge of F1, but WRC, Touring Cars, road safety, and lots of other things.

[pino]

Remember of course the FIA isn't just in charge of F1, but WRC, Touring Cars, road safety, and lots of other things.

That's why Cesare Fiorio (former Lancia Rally Team Manager) is the perfect choice :p :

[Valve Bounce]

I expect it will be Todt due to his wide experience. Eddie Jordan would be an interesting choice!

;)

There are very serious issues associated with the honesty and veracity of Eddie from a financial viewpoint.

I'll go along with Cesare Fioro if he can demonstrate his ability to manage such a large conglomerate as motor sport; but then if Max could do it, then why not!!

[Knock-on]

stewart the guy who shows up in a skirt??

RU serious :(

You mean like a Dhoti ;)

The national dress for men in Scotland is a dress as it is in India :laugh:

[555-04Q2]

Elvis Presley...a little less conversation a little more action please!

[jonv]

Paul Stoddart

[Valve Bounce]

Paul Stoddart

Dear God!! NO! :eek:

[CaptainRaiden]

I think James Hetfield would do a wonderful job as FIA President. Whatever the fans demand, he would say, "YEAHH!!". ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

In all seriousness, did anybody else think of Alain Prost? I think the guy is the perfect choice possible for being the FIA president. I mean he is not an A*hole, doesn't cheat, well spoken. *cough* Apart from a little friction with Ferrari in ahem, 1991*. I think he should do a solid job, and he also doesn't seem like the kind of guy to indulge in Nazi prison camp fantasies, so I don't expect him to conduct the business in the same way.

BTW, Michael Schumacher is the worst ever choice to be the President of FIA. If that happens, expect Ferrari and Massa to win the next 10 World Championships.

[Knock-on]

Is anyone else a little concerned at Max's passing statement after his humiliation yesterday?

Something like "I hope the next President is more to their liking."

Has a deal been done? I think it's a shoe in for Jean Todt.

Personally I think Mr Todt would do a good job but it's hardly uncontentious.

Or has he someone else less savory in mind because as we know, Max doesn't hold a grudge ;)

[myuu007]

As long as it's not di Montezemolo, Todt or Ron Dennis then I don't really care.

This might sound daft but I reckon Michael Schumacher would do a good job.
I'm 100% sure that Schumacher is uninterested in the job :D

[Ranger]

Ari Vatanen is the best choice I have heard here, by virtue that he is already a politician, which is the primary skill required for the job.

It will nonetheless be a current member of the FIA.

[Valve Bounce]

Is anyone else a little concerned at Max's passing statement after his humiliation yesterday?

Something like "I hope the next President is more to their liking."

Has a deal been done? I think it's a shoe in for Jean Todt.

Personally I think Mr Todt would do a good job but it's hardly uncontentious.

Or has he someone else less savory in mind because as we know, Max doesn't hold a grudge ;)

Like Ron Dennis ?? :p :

[I am evil Homer]

Ari Vatanen is the best choice I have heard here, by virtue that he is already a politician, which is the primary skill required for the job.

It will nonetheless be a current member of the FIA.

And being a right-wing idiot is almost perfect to step straight into the shoes of the preceeding President...

[ioan]

BTW, Michael Schumacher is the worst ever choice to be the President of FIA. If that happens, expect Ferrari and Massa to win the next 10 World Championships.

What a load of BS.

[ioan]

I'm 100% sure that Schumacher is uninterested in the job :D

I'm with you 100% on this one.

[ioan]

And being a right-wing idiot is almost perfect to step straight into the shoes of the preceeding President...

Well spotted!

I'm all for Todt, he's got the know how it Rally, Endurance racing and F1.
Other than him there's only Dave Richards I can think of, but he's got his own teams and thus there would be a lil' compatibility problem there.

[Mauri A]

And being a right-wing idiot is almost perfect to step straight into the shoes of the preceeding President...
Right-wing sure, but idiot not for sure! I´ve known him since seventies. Could you please tell me the grounds of your comment. Are you maybe a left-winger?

[I am evil Homer]

Agreed...although clearly people will accuse him of perhaps playing favourites (after all Pug are back in LMS and Ferrari in F1) he's got top level experience in three of the four key areas and really with the rules already sorted for the WTCC the lack of tintop experience is not an issue.

Richards again knows many sports but yes, he's still too active with Prodrive to be a legitimate candidate.

[I am evil Homer]

Right-wing sure, but idiot not for sure! I´ve known him since seventies. Could you please tell me the grounds of your comment. Are you maybe a left-winger?

As in makes idiotic statements based on his right wing views...intelligent, mannered and well-read people can still be idiots. And no, I'm particulalry 'left wing' I just find Ari's views somewhat distasteful. After the issues with Moseley I think he's too controversial a choice to be FIA president

[CaptainRaiden]

What a load of BS.

Really? How are you so sure that won't happen? It just might. ;)

[schmenke]

More than necessary IMO.

Why?
Did that comment add to or enhance the quality of your post in any way to the benefit of the thread overall?

[Knock-on]

Richards again knows many sports but yes, he's still too active with Prodrive to be a legitimate candidate.

I am sure Dave would relinquish any claim over Prodrive were he to head the FIA but why would he.

I have no doubt he would be an ideal candidate for the role but why in Gods name would he want it?

Still, I don't see any conflict of interest should he "in theory" want the job as I don't with Jean Todt.

This is all irrelevant though as the person who will take over is Michel Boeri.

Still, it's nice to speculate ;)

[ioan]

I am sure Dave would relinquish any claim over Prodrive were he to head the FIA but why would he.

I have no doubt he would be an ideal candidate for the role but why in Gods name would he want it?

Still, I don't see any conflict of interest should he "in theory" want the job as I don't with Jean Todt.

How can one be an active team boss and the president of teh regulatory body of the sport?!

Todt isn't active in motorsports since end of 2007. I'm not even sure if he is still working for Ferrari at all.

[Knock-on]

How can one be an active team boss and the president of teh regulatory body of the sport?!

Todt isn't active in motorsports since end of 2007. I'm not even sure if he is still working for Ferrari at all.

I said that as long as he relinquishes his role with Prodrive then there wouldn't be a problem as I don't see a problem with Jean who was so fundemental to Ferrari.

People move on and you have to accept them in good faith unless demonstrated otherwise.

However, you can't say Dave would show bias and Jean would not unless you think that because he worked for Ferrari then the sun shines out of his bottom and he can do no wrong. Oh wait a minute, I forgot who I was responding to :D

[ioan]

I said that as long as he relinquishes his role with Prodrive then there wouldn't be a problem as I don't see a problem with Jean who was so fundemental to Ferrari.

If you put it like that I agree.

However I doubt Richards, who is co-founder and chairman of Prodrive, would sell his participation in Prodrive to become the target of future political attacks!

[ShiftingGears]

Jean Todt.

[Knock-on]

If you put it like that I agree.

However I doubt Richards, who is co-founder and chairman of Prodrive, would sell his participation in Prodrive to become the target of future political attacks!

Precisely. As I said, why would he? What benefit is there for him?

None, so I guess it's a moot point.

JT is the only realistic prospect I can think of that might accept the role and it would be a good shoe in but as I mentioned, I think the deal has been done in the backrooms and it will be Michel Boeri.

[veeten]

aaah... no.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38303

[christophulus]

We need a complete overhaul of the FIA really, start again from scratch with new people in every position. Plus some sort of amendment (unless this rule exists already) that a president can only stand for five years or so.

Ideally someone who listens to what fans, teams, circuit owners etc wants and not someone who just makes up rules as and when they feel like it!

[Knock-on]

aaah... no.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38303

Pitpass reading this forum again :)

[christophulus]

FOTA don't want Todt; someone independent:


Formula One Teams' Association vice chairman John Howett has called for Max Mosley's successor as president of the FIA to be fully independent of the competitors.

The Toyota team president believes that whoever is elected to take over the role from Mosley in October must have no current or historic links to the F1 teams.

This is a clear hint that FOTA would not be keen on former Ferrari boss Jean Todt, who has been linked with the position, taking over.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76516

[ioan]

Tough task in this case.

[BDunnell]

Tough task in this case.

Tough in any case. There are still plenty of candidates who would fit the bill. Several of them have been mentioned here, surely.

[ArrowsFA1]

I recall Max telling Martin Brundle "you wont see me around much" when he first became FIA President :p

Whoever takes over has to represent, as Mark pointed out, a lot of other things relating to motor sport, motorists and the car industry. That is a very wide brief and so, in my view, the FIA needs a figurehead who can represent the many strands of the organisation, as opposed to someone who is seen as "the head of F1".

As far as F1 is concerned a reorganised FIA F1 Commission should run the sport and it would be appropriate to have someone with F1 experience at the head of that body.

[Spoonbender]

Jeremy Kyle. (appologies for those who don't watch British daytime telly)

Wait hear me out. First, he's independant of any teams. Second, it would do away with those court cases in France, cos he comes with his own lie detector. He also does DNA tests which could prove useful, and if it all gets too much he's always got Graham and his aftercare team :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZb9-7i-ncc

[CNR]

http://www.f1network.net/main/s491/st127360.htm


We can exclusively reveal that Max Mosley, so far FIA's president is about to be replaced by Peter Sauber, the creator of the Sauber F1 Team (now known as BMW Sauber, and previously kniwn as Sauber Petronas). After yesterday a news bomb made it to the media, with Mosley being the center of the controversy, today is has emerged that Mosley will not continue as FIA president for much longer.
GA_googleFillSlot("SN_F1_MPU");

We went to the FIA for a quote from Max Mosley, but were told by a spokesman that he's a bit tied up at the moment.
There have already appeared some candidates for the role: Jean Todd, former Ferrari F1 chief, Paul Stoddart, former Minardi chief (who was the most vocal against Mosley in the past), Anthony Hamilton and Peter Sauber.

We hear that Jean Todd has rejected the proposition because he felt that his presidency would make too obvious what has been widely known in F1 for a long time: FIA means Ferrari International Aid. However secretly he confessed to us that the plasters he uses for his fingers would not match the suit he would have to wear in the FIA meetings.

Stoddart was another firm candidate, despite having left F1 some time ago for ChampCar. But as ChampCar will merge with IRL, he has now a golden opportunity. However when offered the job he got mad and just could say in an angry mood "This is ****ing crazy. This today is bull". Seems like he still has the same mood, and hasn't changed his mind after the Indy 2005 farce!

In a desperate attempt, FIA members tried to to hire a popular character, in order to improve FIA's image, and get rid of any racism attacks they could suffer after the incidents tha have happened this year. And they thought, who would be better than Anthony Hamilton, the father of the Mclaren's spectacular driver Lewis Hamilton?
Unfortunately, Anthony Hamilton requested for an unacceptable share of TV time (we hear that he wasn't happy with last year's TV coverage, and now asked for no less of 50% of the qualifying TV time, and 40% of the race time), as well as $10 million in return for his publicity appearances. And, what's more, he asked too for a crane at every corner, especially in wet races.

So finally the only candidate left was Peter Sauber, who is now just BMW Sauber consultant, but could easily leave the job. Mario Theissen couldn't stop crying after he heard he would lose such a good friend to the FIA, so promised to give Albert2 as a gift to Peter, who will use it for studying and creating new radical aero rules that would scracth the winglet ban, and would now reuqest no less than 6 'bull' and 'deer' horns in each F1 car, ala BMW-Sauber F1.08. Sauber added that, with Albert2 by his side, he'll be able to crack the whip and get the new rules introduced quickly.
The only condition asked by Peter Sauber is to have a couple of wooden boxes of extra fine Habanos brought to his working table every morning.

Expect to hear more on the matter soon.
Peter Sauber for president!



this is an April fools joke from last year (did not fall for that again)

If i could vote i would vote for Peter Sauber

[christophulus]

No, wait, Mosley feels insulted and might run again


In a letter that Mosley sent to FOTA chairman Luca di Montezemolo, which first appeared on website http://www.racefax.com but has now been seen by AUTOSPORT, Mosley makes it clear that he is angry at how FOTA has presented the terms of its deal.

And such is his seriousness with which he is treating the matter, that he has told FOTA that his original plan to step down as FIA president in October is no longer definite.


"Given your and FOTA's deliberate attempt to mislead the media, I now consider my options open," wrote Mosley in the letter. "At least until October, I am president of the FIA with the full authority of that office.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76529

Please, Max, just go!

[Wilderness]

Pitpass reading this forum again :)
Typical Pisspot. I demand credit for the quote!

[CNR]

i did a google search for
fia members support mosley
fia members defend mosley
can not find 1 link to any
without support he is gone

[AndyL]

No, wait, Mosley feels insulted and might run again

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76529

Please, Max, just go!

Blimey that didn't take long. I thought it would be at least August before he decided he wasn't going to step down.

[ioan]

No, wait, Mosley feels insulted and might run again



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76529

Please, Max, just go!

He really needs to be publicly humiliated and be kicked of the office?
He might have his wish come true this time around.

[markabilly]

he wants more retirement money......and a public whipping

[Koz]

No, wait, Mosley feels insulted and might run again



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76529

Please, Max, just go!

After everything that has been said and done over the last few months (and years), this is what it all amounts to. A ing joke.

We all should have known better from the very start, nothing was ever going to change.
There will never be a breakaway.
Max will never leave.
The whining will never stop.
And the cycle will continue.

This is an annoying, pathetic and sad joke on everyone out there. Ha-Ha.

[Easy Drifter]

I said yesterday I would believe Mad Max gone when a new President was in place, as he has gone back on his word so many times.
However I did not expect him to be at it quite so soon. Note also he is back sticking his nose in F1 which he was not supposed to do, according to the reports.
It almost sounds like he is threatening or planning on rejecting what was decided Wednesday and reverting to his original plan.
I think if he tries that FOTA will split and there will be no further talks or any possible peace until Mad Max is really gone.
Mind you this would certainly confirm FOTA's claim of a dictatorship.
I hope this was his last kick at the can and he will now disappear but I have my doubts.

[wmcot]

Peter Sauber might be a good choice. He has F1 and endurance experience that I am aware of. He seems to be even-tempered and a decent guy.

On the subject of Max - if he feels insulted by DiMontezemolo, he obviously has never visited this forum! :)

[Knock-on]

I liken Max to Saruman in LotR.

He started off looking like a mighty leader and saviour, he then revealed himself to be self serving and an enemy of a just cause and finally lost all his power apart from a grocked voice that could still ensnare the unwary.

Max has taken a fatal blow but how long he takes to die is another matter. His power is waning but he can still manipulate the FIA for some last gasp malicious act.

However, the end is near and if he leaves with whatever respect he can muster, it would be best.

The only problem is that I have no confidence in Max surrendering quietly. When the battle is lost, he will fight to the end to cause as much damage as possible out of spite, only surrendering at the last second to save his worthless skin.

He might try and break F1 out of malice and revenge.

[Knock-on]

Quick question.

Did FOTA say that Michel has been appointed? I thought he would be as the automatic choice but haven't seen it announced anywhere. I just though he would slide into the spot when Max stands down.

[Sonic]

I liken Max to Saruman in LotR.

He started off looking like a mighty leader and saviour, he then revealed himself to be self serving and an enemy of a just cause and finally lost all his power apart from a grocked voice that could still ensnare the unwary.

Max has taken a fatal blow but how long he takes to die is another matter. His power is waning but he can still manipulate the FIA for some last gasp malicious act.

However, the end is near and if he leaves with whatever respect he can muster, it would be best.

The only problem is that I have no confidence in Max surrendering quietly. When the battle is lost, he will fight to the end to cause as much damage as possible out of spite, only surrendering at the last second to save his worthless skin.

He might try and break F1 out of malice and revenge.

So all we need is a bunch of talking, walking trees and we are all set :D

[Knock-on]

So all we need is a bunch of talking, walking trees and we are all set :D

I had a Ruby the other night and have first hand experience of The Ring of Fire!!

[Sonic]

LOL

Back on topic for a sec; I quite like Peter Sauber as a suggestion. He has had sportscar and F1 experience, and whilst he has had dealings with manufactures - Merc, Ferrari, BMW to name a few he has always struck me as a fair and professional man.

[markabilly]

I said yesterday I would believe Mad Max gone when a new President was in place, as he has gone back on his word so many times.
However I did not expect him to be at it quite so soon. Note also he is back sticking his nose in F1 which he was not supposed to do, according to the reports.
It almost sounds like he is threatening or planning on rejecting what was decided Wednesday and reverting to his original plan.
I think if he tries that FOTA will split and there will be no further talks or any possible peace until Mad Max is really gone.
Mind you this would certainly confirm FOTA's claim of a dictatorship.
I hope this was his last kick at the can and he will now disappear but I have my doubts.

max said FOTA does not control the "democratic" process of the FIA, and he must act to stop them , then he makes his announcement, and now he backtracks....so when he is gone wel will know it, (unless you have access to his swiss bank accounts, then you may know it much sooner)

After everything that has been said and done over the last few months (and years), this is what it all amounts to. A ing joke.

We all should have known better from the very start, nothing was ever going to change.
There will never be a breakaway.
Max will never leave.
The whining will never stop.
And the cycle will continue.

This is an annoying, pathetic and sad joke on everyone out there. Ha-Ha.
and the USA and canadian GPs are gone, gone gone, until benrie is gone gone gone
Why I voted max to stay, hoping it would drive a change that resulted in bye, bye, BE, but alas......

[Dave B]

Max: Sign this and I'll stand down.

FOTA: Really? Promise?

Max: Of course. Sign here.

FOTA: There, all signed.

Max: I had my fingers crossed!

[Knock-on]

Max: Sign this and I'll stand down.

FOTA: Really? Promise?

Max: Of course. Sign here.

FOTA: There, all signed.

Max: I had my fingers crossed!

It's great isn't it.

Max says his feelings have been hurt so he will renage on his promises throwing the whole festering pile of crap back into the public spotlight.

This man is a meglomaniac and will destroy F1 rather than lose control.

[ArrowsFA1]

Max Mosley has issued a rallying cry to members of motor racing's governing body - telling them that it is important they stand firm against the desire expressed by Formula 1 teams for a soft-line FIA president.
In the wake of Mosley's anger at the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) for 'deliberately misleading' the media about the manner of a breakthrough deal reached earlier this week, he has now written to FIA member clubs making clear his feelings.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76542

[Knock-on]

FFS, this is getting silly now.

Who apart from Max and me have mentioned Michel as the probable sucessor? It's true he is moderate and used to political decisions. Could it be that Max still holds a grudge because he was almost certain to get the job before Max gazumped him and doesn't want him to suceed where he has failed?

[ArrowsFA1]

"No doubt we face a difficult period. This may well result in short-term problems in Formula 1. It is possible that FOTA will set up an independent series. That is their right, provided they do so under the International Sporting Code.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76546

Are we back to where we were before the British GP? :dozey:

[Dave B]

"That is their right". Are you sure this time, Max? Last time you said that then threatened to sue FOTA when they took you up on your offer. If you're trying to make yourself look like an idiot you're going the right way about it.

This is one man's bruised ego because DiMontezemolo called him a dictator. Wind your neck in, Max, and conduct yourself with some dignity during (hopefully) your last few months in office.

This is one man's bruised ego because DiMontezemolo called him a dictator. Wind your neck in, Max, and conduct yourself with some dignity during (hopefully) your last few months in office.

How about also demanding that FOTA act with dignity?

[ClarkFan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76546

Are we back to where we were before the British GP? :dozey:

Max is. Everyone else has moved on. If Max threatens to gum up the commercial enterprise, Ecclestone may have him stuffed in a box and dropped in the English Channel.

ClarkFan

[ioan]

How about also demanding that FOTA act with dignity?

This is war Tam. You can't act like a gentleman when you face someone like Maxie. You need to hit him while his down otherwise he'll back stab you.

[ioan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76546

Are we back to where we were before the British GP? :dozey:

Looks like that to me.
Hopefully this time FOTA stays away until Max is out of office.

[jens]

I asked already immediately after FIA-FOTA deal that how can FOTA guarantee that Mosley will indeed step down at October. By the looks of things, and if Mosley indeed "somehow" manages to continue beyond 2009, I still think FOTA should have gone forward with a breakaway series. Making deals and trusting Mosley is never a sure thing... Hopefully FOTA reacts quickly and is ready to "breakaway" if Mosley breaches their agreement, whatever kind it might have been.

[ioan]

I asked already immediately after FIA-FOTA deal that how can FOTA guarantee that Mosley will indeed step down at October. By the looks of things, and if Mosley indeed "somehow" manages to continue beyond 2009, I still think FOTA should have gone forward with a breakaway series. Making deals and trusting Mosley is never a sure thing... Hopefully FOTA reacts quickly and is ready to "breakaway" if Mosley breaches their agreement, whatever kind it might have been.

October will be to late to breakaway. They need to do everything to get rid of Max NOW!

[Daz]

I've like to see the chairman of the MSA Alan Gow take the position of FIA president as he's never had involvement with F1 apart from doing the Silverstone podium presentation for 3rd place. Also, he has got the BTCC back to being a very competitive and entertaining series. What is it FOTA are wanting to do, make F1 more entertaining.

[ArrowsFA1]

How about also demanding that FOTA act with dignity?
They've dignified Mosley's demand (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76529) they way they should have done i.e. they've ignored it.

A deal has been struck. F1 is moving on from the recent divisiveness, which has been encouraged at times by Mosley, and the current FIA President seems to dislike being marginalised.

[Juppe]

Ari Vatanen is the best choice I have heard here, by virtue that he is already a politician, which is the primary skill required for the job.

It will nonetheless be a current member of the FIA.

As a fellow Finn I must say that Ari Vatanen is a maniac and should not be elected as a FIAs president.

Although, beig a complete madman may be in their qualification criteria...

[Dave B]

I've like to see the chairman of the MSA Alan Gow take the position of FIA president as he's never had involvement with F1 apart from doing the Silverstone podium presentation for 3rd place. Also, he has got the BTCC back to being a very competitive and entertaining series. What is it FOTA are wanting to do, make F1 more entertaining.
No! We don't want a safety car every time there's a spec of dust on the track and there's more than a car's length gap to the leader! :p

The BTCC is hugely entertaining, that's certain, but it's partly down to artificial measures like reverse grids, short sprint races, success ballast, and a mixture of FWD and RWD cars. None of which belong in F1.

[Mauri A]

[quote="Juppe"]As a fellow Finn I must say that Ari Vatanen is a maniac and should not be elected as a FIAs president.
If so, you must know Ari better than me!

They've dignified Mosley's demand (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76529) they way they should have done i.e. they've ignored it.

A deal has been struck. F1 is moving on from the recent divisiveness, which has been encouraged at times by Mosley, and the current FIA President seems to dislike being marginalised.

F1 is not moving on if one side thinks its ok to misrepresent and bad mouth the other side. How is that beneficial?

For someone who has bleated on about a change of style, why do you now endorse just the same style when used against the person you don't like?

If there is to be a sea-change in attitudes within F1 and a more convivial management style, then the teams need to be equally as responsible for keeping the peace.

Misleading statments are not a part of this.....they are utterly undignified and have no place in moving the sport forward.

""We made a deal yesterday in Paris to end the recent difficulties in Formula 1," explained Mosley. "A fundamental part of this was that we would both present a positive and truthful account to the media.

"I was therefore astonished to learn that FOTA has been briefing the press that Mr Boeri has taken charge of Formula 1, something which you know is completely untrue; that I had been forced out of office, also false; and, apparently, that I would have no role in the FIA after October, something which is plain nonsense, if only because of the FIA statutes.

"Furthermore, you have suggested to the media that I was a 'dictator', an accusation which is grossly insulting to the 26 members of the World Motor Sport Council who have discussed and voted all the rules and procedures of Formula 1 since the 1980s, not to mention the representatives of the FIA's 122 countries who have democratically endorsed everything I and my World Motor Sport Council colleagues have done during the last 18 years."

None of the above, from the article you linked to, is helpful, nor is attacking the person dignified.

As the French say, Plus Ca Change.

[Juppe]

As a fellow Finn I must say that Ari Vatanen is a maniac and should not be elected as a FIAs president.
If so, you must know Ari better than me!

I do not know him personally, but you do?

I base my opinion on him on the book by his son Kim and his opinions on the climate change, public transportation and so on - I would never vote him for anything.

[CNR]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6590051.ece

MAX MOSLEY is preparing the ground for former Ferrari team principal Jean Todt to replace him as president of motor sport’s governing body, the FIA. That, at least, is the belief of the F1 teams as to why he made his dramatic about-turn a day after agreeing a peace deal with them.

[wmcot]

F1 is not moving on if one side thinks its ok to misrepresent and bad mouth the other side. How is that beneficial?

For someone who has bleated on about a change of style, why do you now endorse just the same style when used against the person you don't like?

If there is to be a sea-change in attitudes within F1 and a more convivial management style, then the teams need to be equally as responsible for keeping the peace.

Misleading statments are not a part of this.....they are utterly undignified and have no place in moving the sport forward.

""We made a deal yesterday in Paris to end the recent difficulties in Formula 1," explained Mosley. "A fundamental part of this was that we would both present a positive and truthful account to the media.

"I was therefore astonished to learn that FOTA has been briefing the press that Mr Boeri has taken charge of Formula 1, something which you know is completely untrue; that I had been forced out of office, also false; and, apparently, that I would have no role in the FIA after October, something which is plain nonsense, if only because of the FIA statutes.

"Furthermore, you have suggested to the media that I was a 'dictator', an accusation which is grossly insulting to the 26 members of the World Motor Sport Council who have discussed and voted all the rules and procedures of Formula 1 since the 1980s, not to mention the representatives of the FIA's 122 countries who have democratically endorsed everything I and my World Motor Sport Council colleagues have done during the last 18 years."

None of the above, from the article you linked to, is helpful, nor is attacking the person dignified.

As the French say, Plus Ca Change.

I understand your point that FOTA should have handled things in a better manner. It's best to choose your words wisely when dealing with an unstable individual. Few would argue that Max has not been a dictator, especially as far as F1 is concerned. I highly doubt that all 122 countries have endorsed "everything" Max has done! But the point is that you shouldn't bring it up in the press - just let it all vanish in the wind with Max in October.

[markabilly]

Bottom line---
Let us see, here we have Luca boy handling the nego for FOTA....and slimey boy BE for the fia.....?? or just himself....??
:confused:

But guys, do NOT get nervous and worry,
relax and feel better
because Luca has used those same excellent skills as exhibited by Ferrari pit stops, qualifying and race results of the last few years in securing the future of F1....the same skills that kept Brawn and Todt at Ferrari after MS left so as to continue ferrari's winning ways.....

:monkeedan

you are safe in the hands of luca

So be merry and drink up :beer:
or drink up until you be merry :beer:

[markabilly]

and I fogot to mention those same abilities that he used to run off brawn, just think what a diasister that would be if brawn were still at ferrari right now

[ArrowsFA1]

F1 is not moving on if one side thinks its ok to misrepresent and bad mouth the other side. How is that beneficial?
Your question should be directed at Max who has spent the last couple of years doing just that to anyone who dares to question him, or express a view that differs from his own.

Misleading statments are not a part of this.....they are utterly undignified and have no place in moving the sport forward.
I seem to recall Max's misleading and undignified statements in recent times being applauded in some quarters.

Now, yet again, we see the familiar "I am under pressure now from all over the world to stand for re-election. I don't actually want to" from Max (link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76602)).

Your question should be directed at Max who has spent the last couple of years doing just that to anyone who dares to question him, or express a view that differs from his own.

I seem to recall Max's misleading and undignified statements in recent times being applauded in some quarters.

Now, yet again, we see the familiar "I am under pressure now from all over the world to stand for re-election. I don't actually want to" from Max (link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76602)).

How about having the balls to answer the question that was directed at you?

[markabilly]

How about having the balls to answer the question that was directed at you?
and tambo goes on vacation while arrows looks for the balls...(Hint: When and where was the last time you played with them? :confused: )

I seem to recall Max's misleading and undignified statements in recent times being applauded in some quarters.

Calling Jackie Stewart (a man who wasn't involved in spygate but wanted the world to listen to his drivelling bollocks) a halfwit for talking drivelling bollocks is fair game.

Calling a bloke you've supposedly just made peace with a dictator and saying he has been ousted when he hasn't doesn't help move F1 forward nor sound much like you really want peace.

Only a half wit couldn't make a differential between the two.

Now, yet again, we see the familiar "I am under pressure now from all over the world to stand for re-election. I don't actually want to" from Max (link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76602)).

We also see that "complete lies have been told" that is stated within the article you linked too.

Evidently you believe lies to be fine....but we already knew that from Spygate.

[ioan]

To be honest I think that what di Montezemolo declared is true and such I can't really hold it against him, unless it was agreed that the FOTA shouldn't make those things public in order to protect Max' image.

Just out of interest, does Mr Patrese know you endorse lying??

[Big Ben]

Tamburello, are you going on with this for the sake of debating or are you out of your mind? This hero of yours reminds me of Ceausescu... if you don´t know who that is go read something about him... you may find a common pattern.. we had to shoot our savior.

[Big Ben]

To be honest I think that what di Montezemolo declared is true and such I can't really hold it against him, unless it was agreed that the FOTA shouldn't make those things public in order to protect Max' image.

I disagree. I think that everything should be made public. I don´t give a $h1t about his image. His image should reflect his actions... i don´t think he should be paid to leave, i don´t think he should be praised just because of that... I didn´t appreciate it at all the way LdM started doing that after the agreement was reached. He should be thrown out and never let him again and people should remember for the numskull he was

[ClarkFan]

So far, it looks like the main one inventing statements is Mosley. The only reference I can find to Boeri taking over, the event which is claimed to be setting the President-for-Life off, is from Mosley.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38308

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=334134&FS=F1

There is no reference in the actual press conference transcript linked below, only mentioned in the "BBC reporting" referenced in the motorsport article above. The teams do reference unilateral decision-making regarding the rules, but that seems to be a fair description of the "meet my new standards or go away" choice that Mosley offered them. And the "independent" reference that is making Mosley crazy is a reference to his successor, not him (although having run March and served as Ecclestone's lawyer, Mosely was certainly not independent when he became president).

http://www.teamsassociation.org/press-release/2009-06-25/fota-press-conference-transcript

So Max is simply throwing a fit for being called at his own game. The sooner he is gone the better. And the main lesson from this whole episode is that FIA president should have a term limit. Not sure that it should be, but 18 years is clearly too long.

ClarkFan

[wmcot]

And the main lesson from this whole episode is that FIA president should have a term limit. Not sure that it should be, but 18 years is clearly too long.

ClarkFan

How about a 4 year term with the ability to stand for reelection one or two times? That would give a minimum of 4 years for stability and a maximum of 8 or 12 years.

(You might also want to throw in a yearly senility test!) ;)

[jens]

Mosley will be "forced to stay on"? Oh, how expected. :rolleyes:

I maintain my opinion that FOTA should have proceeded with a breakaway. Making deals with Max is useless and will never give a satisfactory result. FOTA had all the cards to win, but threw them away and now it looks like Bernie will stay and probably Max "will be forced" ( :p :) to stay as well. Even if FOTA starts considering a breakaway again, no-one will take them seriously any more. I can't believe they blew a big chance just because Max finally played it smart and said "okay-okay, I'll step down" (thinking: you wish, haha). :down: Only thing FOTA got, was F1 Commission, but their efficiency is unclear as well and it's not impossible in time Max will try to find legal ways, how to intervene in F1 ruling.

[Knock-on]

So far, it looks like the main one inventing statements is Mosley. The only reference I can find to Boeri taking over, the event which is claimed to be setting the President-for-Life off, is from Mosley.


This is what I thought as well.

I thought that Michel would take the role because of his history otherwise it would be Jean. However, I hadn't seen any mention of it until Max mentioned it.

[ArrowsFA1]

How about a 4 year term with the ability to stand for reelection one or two times? That would give a minimum of 4 years for stability and a maximum of 8 or 12 years.
According to Will Buxton in GPWeek (http://mag.gpweek.com/) the FIA Presidency is already limited, by the FIA statues, to two terms. He goes on to say:
If Max stands again he will move into his fifth. To combat allegations that he is dictatorial, he has threatened to renege on a promise not to stand for election, an election that has gone uncontested for years. Tell me I'm not the only one who sees a level of irony in that.

[K-Pu]

How about a 4 year term with the ability to stand for reelection one or two times? That would give a minimum of 4 years for stability and a maximum of 8 or 12 years.

(You might also want to throw in a yearly senility test!) ;)

4 year term with the possibility of one re-election.

8 years is enough to give some stability, and it´s a good way of getting rid of power-hungry maniacs who think that THEY (and only THEY) are motorsports in the world. The problem to do that is a big one...

Which FIA president would want to limit his power by accepting this time limit? Which one would dare to change FIA´s hierarchy since Mosley (and any other president) is somehow elected, and these electors will surely want someone who fits their schemes? Of course limiting power is the best way to guarantee that no dictator will cling to power like a tick (this sounds far better in Spanish), but sadly this idea has been around since classical Greece and some people don´t care about it (see dictators).

Conclussion: We are f*ucked (as always), plagued by power maniacs or greedy b*stards who don´t give a sh*it about F1. And these *ssh*les are, coincidentally, ruling the sport. And yes, I´m getting a bit fed up with this power struggle.

[K-Pu]

According to Will Buxton in GPWeek (http://mag.gpweek.com/) the FIA Presidency is already limited, by the FIA statues, to two terms. He goes on to say:


And this makes it even worse!!!

[Knock-on]

The way Max has structured the FIA, it is practicly impossible for anyone to stand againt him and win.

In theory, they would have to be a bigger crook than Max to succeed.

[markabilly]

The way Max has structured the FIA, it is practicly impossible for anyone to stand againt him and win.

In theory, they would have to be a bigger crook than Max to succeed.
When you can sell all the profitable rights to F1, for far less than what they are worth, and then get a 300 million dollar gift from bernie in return, and those FIA children do not even whimper.....and then get a vote that says keep the job, you little whipster, who some would call a facist, there is NO reason to be saying anything like that against this honorable man, none whatsoever. He even said the process was democratic, very democratic.....if you do not beleive me, just ask sainte devoted

[ioan]

"I do genuinely want to stop. But if there is going to be a big conflict with the car industry, for example, with the FOTA teams, then I won't stop. I will do whatever I have to do. It's not in my nature to walk away from a fight."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76602

A part of me wishes that he goes on and tries to take the fight to the automotive industry just so that I can see them rolling all over him a couple of times before he's sent to the asylum.

If humiliation is what he's after than he's certainly on the right way to getting plenty of it.

[Knock-on]

Can someone tell me what bella figura means? Is it as I suspect a one trick pony because that's what Max is calling Luca now.

On one hand we have him calling people bella figura, Loonies, certified halfwits etc and then he gets all upset when he's accused of being a Dictator.

His defence against this claim is that the WMSC meets and discusses the actions he has taken before agreeing them :laugh:

So, he has absolute power but gets it rubberstamp after the event :laugh:

[ioan]

On one hand we have him calling people bella figura, Loonies, certified halfwits etc and then he gets all upset when he's accused of being a Dictator.

He wasn't even called a dictator, not directly. It was only implied.

Can someone tell me what bella figura means?

http://www.greatwhatsit.com/archives/1617

See, educating the masses again!

[Knock-on]

http://www.greatwhatsit.com/archives/1617

See, educating the masses again!

Ahhh, so Max is calling Luca a prancing peacock :laugh:

Ahhh, so Max is calling Luca a prancing peacock :laugh:

No, that's not it. One of the meanings of 'Bella Figura' is meaning something like 'don't let on that anything is wrong' or 'put on a brave face'....it's an image thing with no direct English translation.

[ioan]

One of the meanings of 'Bella Figura' is meaning something like 'don't let on that anything is wrong' or 'put on a brave face'....it's an image thing with no direct English translation.

That's how I see it too, but Max says that LdM is only that, a bella figura, which IMO is offending.

Maxie is after asking others to apologize for implying something that is true, i.e. that his acting like a dictator, while he was and is insulting these people. Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

[Roamy]

the "Toad" is probably the logical choice but I would throw in "Ole one ear" as well and possibly the "Whinging Bagpipe"

[Knock-on]

No, that's not it. One of the meanings of 'Bella Figura' is meaning something like 'don't let on that anything is wrong' or 'put on a brave face'....it's an image thing with no direct English translation.

:laugh:

Well, if he is going to insult someone, he could at least let us know what the insult is :D

[Bagwan]

:laugh:

Well, if he is going to insult someone, he could at least let us know what the insult is :D

But , Knockie , that seems to have been the whole point .

If he insults Luca , and it goes over your head , then Luca's reaction , if there is one , will likely seem over the top .
Max then keeps the argument on track , and therefore , his reasoning to stay on .
He said he would stay if peace was not achieved .

[ClarkFan]

He said he would stay if peace was not achieved .

And then did his best to foment a new war....... :rolleyes:

ClarkFan

[Saint Devote]

I nominate Todt because he will be the sole individual that will have the trust and even confidence of the FOTA group,especially Ferrari and has a good personal relationship with Bernie.

He has stature in France, Germany, Italy and Britain and this is vital as these are the significant racing nations. He understands how the various racing bodies work and how to govern large organizations.

I can think of no other person suitably qualified and I think that Mosely will select him as a successor and it will be accepted by the FIA.

[K-Pu]

So far we have...

Michel Boeri
Jean Todt
Peter Sauber
Ari Vatanen
David Richards
And someone else I´m forgetting...

I think the most sensible choice would be Peter Sauber...

[Knock-on]

So far we have...

Michel Boeri
Jean Todt
Peter Sauber
Ari Vatanen
David Richards
And someone else I´m forgetting...

I think the most sensible choice would be Peter Sauber...

1 or 2.

Boeri is an obvious choice, used to the workings of the FIA and an accomplished negiotiator.

JT may be contentious but IMHO would be a good choice.

All the rest are unsuitable or wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

[Big Ben]

I nominate Todt because he will be the sole individual that will have the trust and even confidence of the FOTA group,especially Ferrari and has a good personal relationship with Bernie.

He has stature in France, Germany, Italy and Britain and this is vital as these are the significant racing nations. He understands how the various racing bodies work and how to govern large organizations.

I can think of no other person suitably qualified and I think that Mosely will select him as a successor and it will be accepted by the FIA.

Is this one of his roles, to select successors?... dictator my a$$

[ArrowsFA1]

I think the likes of Todt, Sauber and Richards would be suitable candidates for a revitalised FIA F1 Commission, but I'm not sure about them running the FIA as a whole.

I do think the departure of Max should be accompanied by a restructure of the FIA with the F1 Commission being granted the authority to run F1, in the same way as there should be, for example, a WRC Commission or a Karting Commission.

[Mark]

Todt would be a good choice as he knows about both rallying and F1. You would think the way the FIA go on that F1 is the only sport they are interested or involved in.

[ArrowsFA1]

You would think the way the FIA go on that F1 is the only sport they are interested or involved in.
To some extent that is inevitable because it is the FIA's "jewel in the crown", and the likes of Mosley and Balestre have both made the most of the 'prestige' that comes with that.

[555-04Q2]

Todt would be a good choice as he knows about both rallying and F1. You would think the way the FIA go on that F1 is the only sport they are interested or involved in.

I agree, but I worry about his relationship with Ferrari which may make him a bit biased in favour of prancing horse.

[Bagwan]

Todt would be a good choice as he knows about both rallying and F1. You would think the way the FIA go on that F1 is the only sport they are interested or involved in.

It is said that Jean is Max's choice .

Can we be sure about Todt if this is the case ?

[ioan]

It is said that Jean is Max's choice .

Can we be sure about Todt if this is the case ?

Good question.

[wmcot]

I agree, but I worry about his relationship with Ferrari which may make him a bit biased in favour of prancing horse.

I can see the anti-Ferrari crowd questioning every ruling that even slightly looks in Ferrari's behavior! There will be plenty of fodder for these forums.

I think Sauber would be a better choice, but he seems far to smart to get involved. I think Todt would be far better than Max, but we'll have to see.

[BDunnell]

It is said that Jean is Max's choice .

Can we be sure about Todt if this is the case ?

If this is true, being his favoured candidate would surely be an incredibly poisoned chalice for Todt to hold.

[BDunnell]

Maxie is after asking others to apologize for implying something that is true, i.e. that his acting like a dictator, while he was and is insulting these people. Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

As I stated before, I genuinely think that a psychiatrist would have a field day with Max at the moment.

[ArrowsFA1]

No brand is immune from being tarnished, and the schism that has surrounded Formula One in recent weeks seems to have left its mark, according to the latest MarketingWeek.co.uk poll.
Although the results were close, more than half (52%) of those who voted agreed that the row between the Formula One teams and the motor sport’s governing body, the FIA, has damaged the brand.
http://www.marketingweek.co.uk

Not a poll on who is to blame, but a measure of damage being done to the sport.

[yodasarmpit]

I honestly have no idea who should replace Max, maybe time for someone with no motor sport connections?

[Sonic]

I honestly have no idea who should replace Max, maybe time for someone with no motor sport connections?

I'm not sure a president with zero knowledge of the sport(s) they are in charge of is the best idea.

[ioan]

I'm not sure a president with zero knowledge of the sport(s) they are in charge of is the best idea.

Why not?!
The FIA isn't first of all about motorsports.
Also they aren't looking for another Mosley who meddles with everything, they need someone with common sense and intelligent enough to understand what people with knowledge tell him.

The sport should be controlled by the F1 Commission, made up by the teams, a FIA representative (other than the president), the promoter, and the tire suppliers, all with equal rights any decision is taken only if there is a majority. If discussion stall than the FIA president should moderate the discussions and try to find a common ground but he shouldn't have the right to decide anything alone.

[pino]

I'm not sure a president with zero knowledge of the sport(s) they are in charge of is the best idea.

I totally agree, we need someone who knows what this sport is about and what all F1 fans wants from this sport.

[ioan]

I totally agree, we need someone who knows what this sport is about and what all F1 fans wants from this sport.

There is no such person.

[pino]

There is no such person.

There is, there is...I am one of them :p :

http://www.marketingweek.co.uk

Not a poll on who is to blame, but a measure of damage being done to the sport.

F1's image will be fine, just like it was after Spankgate, Liargate, Spygate, Tabacgate, Tyregate, Ordergate, Jerezgate, Imolagate, Focagate or anything else that could have a 'gate' crowbarred onto the end of.

Mind you, if you did try to Focagate, then you'd get some horrible splinters in the genital area.

[Sonic]

The sport should be controlled by the F1 Commission, made up by the teams, a FIA representative (other than the president), the promoter, and the tire suppliers, all with equal rights any decision is taken only if there is a majority. If discussion stall than the FIA president should moderate the discussions and try to find a common ground but he shouldn't have the right to decide anything alone.

Your suggestion; whilst wise, is untenable. When as you say discussions stall (and they always will) a strong leader (with intimate knowledge of the sport) needs to step in and make tough choices. The problem comes when the person at the top with the power has gone a bit mad maX; which is why I would like to see FIA presidents’ limited to a maximum term in charge to avoid the dictatorship we now “enjoy”.

[ioan]

Your suggestion; whilst wise, is untenable. When as you say discussions stall (and they always will) a strong leader (with intimate knowledge of the sport) needs to step in and make tough choices.

You see this is the problem, you guys can't live without a dictator who tells you what and when to do.

What you propose is nothing else than what we have now, one guy who is doing what he wants no matter if it's right or not.

We do not need that.

You see this is the problem, you guys can't live without a dictator who tells you what and when to do.

What you propose is nothing else than what we have now, one guy who is doing what he wants no matter if it's right or not.

We do not need that.

We don't, but Formula One team owners/managers do.

[ioan]

We don't, but Formula One team owners/managers do.

Come on Tam, these are strong people who don't need a dictator, and we all saw where the whole thing heads to if strong willed people are told to do something they don't want to do.

Reasoning and discussing followed by a majority vote is the only realistic way you can manage such people.

[Bagwan]

Come on Tam, these are strong people who don't need a dictator, and we all saw where the whole thing heads to if strong willed people are told to do something they don't want to do.

Reasoning and discussing followed by a majority vote is the only realistic way you can manage such people.

We've seen what strong wills will write on this board , and these are people with no actual stake in the game .

I don't know if you've ever witnessed a Canadian parliamentary session (probably not) , but it is where top minds and manipulaters act like children , in a formal setting . It's a familiar sight around the world , with governments taking tantrums in semi-public .

These are our leaders , and they cannot act with dignity and decorum .

Add big money , for which the players are actually responsible , unlike in governments , and you have F1 .

In every court , there is a judge . If the litigants can settle it before the judge has to act , the case is closed .
The series needs someone who can act to over-rule in ugly situations , and for this role , some would call that judge "dictator" .

It is said that if , in a divorce , either side is happy after a judge has ruled on the settlement , then he hasn't done his job properly .
And , if he has done his job , he won't win a popularity contest with either side .

All that said , Max's rule has been one that has had it's benefits , to be sure , but one that has lost him the confidence of both sides .

Tamburello is correct that we need a dictator to control FOTA .
It's hard to know who can do the job , though .

[ioan]

The series needs someone who can act to over-rule in ugly situations , and for this role , some would call that judge "dictator".

I do not agree.
Might be because I lived under dictatorship. One person should never have the right to take the ultimate decision, never ever.

That's why I prefer a jury over a judge and a democracy over dictatorship.

[Bagwan]

I do not agree.
Might be because I lived under dictatorship. One person should never have the right to take the ultimate decision, never ever.

That's why I prefer a jury over a judge and a democracy over dictatorship.

There are extremes at both ends of the spectrum .

But , there is middle ground . It's just really hard to find , and even harder to keep .

Like I said , if anyone is happy , then the job isn't done right .
It could also be pointed out that , if the judge doesn't need to get involved , both parties can be happy .

This can be achieved 2 ways .
Firstly , the litigants can show respect for each other , and compromise , or a judge can force them to do so .
Certainly , a jury of peers can help to decide , but even they can have disagreements , being human , and a final word is necessary anyway , to decide sentence .


The word "dictator" has taken on the role of describing those who , sadly , are not terribly good in the role .
It is usually used to describe those who were recently over-thrown .

A good dictator only remains so because he has control .

To do so , he/she must reign with the confidence of the people , or , at least , remain in power .


You have to have someone who has a firm grip on reality , and no serious ties to specific teams .
You need someone who will listen to all opinions , and accept suggestions that are for the greater good .
You will definitely need someone who can break up an argument .
You need that person to be articulate , and able to relate many different sides of any situation , to many different parties , all with clarity , so that everyone understands that any decision is based on what is good for the series , and nothing else .
You need someone who understands the importance of the fan , and that the fan needs to be entertained .

Max is not this person . That's obvious , as he is in the process of being overthrown .
But , who that person is , is a mystery to me .

Somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes lies the answer .
FOTA will fight . It is inevitable .
Everyone on the board is good , but we need a leader for the boat , but we need the usual measures in place to mutiny , if the captain starts to head towards the reef , like Max is now .

[Sonic]

I do not agree.
Might be because I lived under dictatorship. One person should never have the right to take the ultimate decision, never ever.

That's why I prefer a jury over a judge and a democracy over dictatorship.

Agreed. No one should have to live under a dictatorship. But we are talking about a sporting gouverning body, where ultimately if the "dictator" has no real power as the teams can walk away if they don't like it. Majority rule is all well and good but with 10 FOTA teams (at the start anyway) its completely possible to have a stalemate - how do those situations get sorted? Someone makes them.

[ioan]

There are extremes at both ends of the spectrum .

But , there is middle ground . It's just really hard to find , and even harder to keep .

Like I said , if anyone is happy , then the job isn't done right .
It could also be pointed out that , if the judge doesn't need to get involved , both parties can be happy .

This can be achieved 2 ways .
Firstly , the litigants can show respect for each other , and compromise , or a judge can force them to do so .
Certainly , a jury of peers can help to decide , but even they can have disagreements , being human , and a final word is necessary anyway , to decide sentence .


The word "dictator" has taken on the role of describing those who , sadly , are not terribly good in the role .
It is usually used to describe those who were recently over-thrown .

A good dictator only remains so because he has control .

To do so , he/she must reign with the confidence of the people , or , at least , remain in power .


You have to have someone who has a firm grip on reality , and no serious ties to specific teams .
You need someone who will listen to all opinions , and accept suggestions that are for the greater good .
You will definitely need someone who can break up an argument .
You need that person to be articulate , and able to relate many different sides of any situation , to many different parties , all with clarity , so that everyone understands that any decision is based on what is good for the series , and nothing else .
You need someone who understands the importance of the fan , and that the fan needs to be entertained .

Max is not this person . That's obvious , as he is in the process of being overthrown .
But , who that person is , is a mystery to me .

Somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes lies the answer .
FOTA will fight . It is inevitable .
Everyone on the board is good , but we need a leader for the boat , but we need the usual measures in place to mutiny , if the captain starts to head towards the reef , like Max is now .

You start with the premise that there is a litigation that will end with a divorce of some kind and if one of the parts is happy than the other will eb unhappy so in your opinion the best if both are unhappy.

I see the things differently.
I believe that what is needed is to keep everyone as happy as possible, not to pis$ of all of them, like Maxie did. We are talking about keeping the teams in the sport and making the sport such as it's appealing to these teams, we aren't talking about a schism.
IMO the only way to achieve balance is to talk. To find the common ground and to develop it from there in agreement, not by imposing it on anyone.

I really can't accept that one person should have the last say, because no one is perfect and I believe that everyone makes mistakes, it's less likely that 10 people are wrong and the one opposing them is right.

[ioan]

Agreed. No one should have to live under a dictatorship. But we are talking about a sporting gouverning body, where ultimately if the "dictator" has no real power as the teams can walk away if they don't like it. Majority rule is all well and good but with 10 FOTA teams (at the start anyway) its completely possible to have a stalemate - how do those situations get sorted? Someone makes them.

So dictatorship in a sport is OK?! You just said that no one should live under dictatorship, what about working under dictatorship? Do you believe that someone can give it's best if they work in a stressed, unfriendly, imposed environment?!

And BTW, no matter who is the president of the FIA, if a team wants to leave they leave, no one can stop them. The only thing that willl keep them in the sport is having the right conditions, the conditions they agree to, not the ones imposed by a power freak.

Just think about how nice it is to leave in a free world, with rules that you voted for, that are accepted by the majority and so on, than think that it's the same situation for these teams.

[Sonic]

Everyone works under a dictatorship Ioan. My boss says jump, I ask how high? ;)

Sadly no one agrees on everything all of the time (as our little conversation proves), thankfully here on the forums there is no need to come to a concensus so we can agree to disagree but in the FIA someone needs to be able to draw a line and set the rules if agreement can not be reached - that will almost always result in someone getting p1ss*d off.

[ioan]

Everyone works under a dictatorship Ioan. My boss says jump, I ask how high? ;)

And do you find that right?!



Sadly no one agrees on everything all of the time (as our little conversation proves), thankfully here on the forums there is no need to come to a concensus

Who says we need consensus? All that is needed is a democratic majority.


...but in the FIA someone needs to be able to draw a line and set the rules if agreement can not be reached...

Why?
IMO it's not needed at all that someone imposes on someone else his/her own views of something he isn't really affected by.

[I am evil Homer]

My fear is that FOTA was united by one cause...getting rid of Mad Max. If he goes what happens next?

[Sonic]

And do you find that right?!

Yup. When the person giving those instructions is more experienced, knowledgeable in their field. If/when I rise to a position of such prominence I would also expect my instructions to be carried out without question.


Who says we need consensus? All that is needed is a democratic majority.

You are of course familiar with the concept of a hung parliment. Its all roses whilst FOTA agree fully (or only 1 party disagreed as in the BMW KERS stance) but sooner or later an issue will split the teams down the middle. Which would once again bring us back to the "can't please all the people all the time" arguement. Or we have someone - elect by the FIA - who can step in.

[Bagwan]

You start with the premise that there is a litigation that will end with a divorce of some kind and if one of the parts is happy than the other will eb unhappy so in your opinion the best if both are unhappy.

I see the things differently.
I believe that what is needed is to keep everyone as happy as possible, not to pis$ of all of them, like Maxie did. We are talking about keeping the teams in the sport and making the sport such as it's appealing to these teams, we aren't talking about a schism.
IMO the only way to achieve balance is to talk. To find the common ground and to develop it from there in agreement, not by imposing it on anyone.

I really can't accept that one person should have the last say, because no one is perfect and I believe that everyone makes mistakes, it's less likely that 10 people are wrong and the one opposing them is right.

What we need is a benevolent dictator .
It's less likely that a group of 10 can reach a simple conclusion , due to individual interests .
That dictator can rule the last vote in such circumstance .

I guess the only difference we have here is the personality of that judge .

You , having experienced a real one , are jaded , and cannot imagine the right person .
I , having never experienced such , am not , and can .

In Canada , a minority government means dick gets done but arguing , and a majority means do your worst as they can't kick you out .

Human nature warps the ideal just about every time .

You need a figure that cannot be bribed .
That's either someone with enough cash already , or someone with unsinkable morals .

It's a hard position to fill , and Max is the perfect example of who not to choose . It's easy to see how you would relate him with your own experiences .

You're right that everyone should be happy , but it will never happen every time .

[ioan]

What we need is a benevolent dictator .
It's less likely that a group of 10 can reach a simple conclusion , due to individual interests .
That dictator can rule the last vote in such circumstance .

Who says that this person will not turn into another Mosley in one years time and than we'll get 3 years of stupid imposed changes and quarrels?

There is no reason why one person should have absolute power over anything else but his own person.

The last FOTA stand showed that at least 8 of them can agree if it's needed, that's a majority even if we will have 13 teams next season.



In Canada , a minority government means dick gets done but arguing , and a majority means do your worst as they can't kick you out .

That's strange.
In a real democracy a minority government can't survive, it will be voted out by the Parliament.
A majority government will do bad things only if they do not want to be there at the end of their term, in case they aren't overthrown by the population meanwhile.
It's down to the people to go out and express their opinion.

[Bagwan]

Who says that this person will not turn into another Mosley in one years time and than we'll get 3 years of stupid imposed changes and quarrels?

There is no reason why one person should have absolute power over anything else but his own person.

The last FOTA stand showed that at least 8 of them can agree if it's needed, that's a majority even if we will have 13 teams next season.



That's strange.
In a real democracy a minority government can't survive, it will be voted out by the Parliament.
A majority government will do bad things only if they do not want to be there at the end of their term, in case they aren't overthrown by the population meanwhile.
It's down to the people to go out and express their opinion.

Democracy , in reality , is a fairytale , my friend .
And , most "so-called" democracies(like mine) are headed away from real democratic rule .

Even at the lowest level , here in my municipality , it's taken 3 years to remove an intensely corrupt building inspector , because the municipal board , a level of governance that is to take care of such things , has been stripped of it's power to govern .
From my seat , this was a move of which Markabilly would be proud .
Keep them busy fighting amongst themselves , and they won't notice the changes you made while they weren't looking .

You first question is the tough one .
That dictator , though strong , must never be totally un-touchable .
The only dictator that can last , in reality , must be chosen .

I don't mind if that dictator lasts forever , as long as he remains my choice .

[ioan]

Democracy , in reality , is a fairytale , my friend .
And , most "so-called" democracies(like mine) are headed away from real democratic rule .

Even at the lowest level , here in my municipality , it's taken 3 years to remove an intensely corrupt building inspector , because the municipal board , a level of governance that is to take care of such things , has been stripped of it's power to govern .
From my seat , this was a move of which Markabilly would be proud .
Keep them busy fighting amongst themselves , and they won't notice the changes you made while they weren't looking .

You first question is the tough one .
That dictator , though strong , must never be totally un-touchable .
The only dictator that can last , in reality , must be chosen .

I don't mind if that dictator lasts forever , as long as he remains my choice .

Bagwan, democracy is not a fairy tale.
Until now it proved to be the best option for this world.

There were all kind of dictatorships, and there monarchies where one person held the power.
A good look to the history books will prove that none of them was as good as democracy, be it the democracies we have today or those of ancient Greece or Rome.

It sure isn't perfect, but as long as the separation of the different powers is done in the right way, and these powers balance each other than it's difficult to imagine something better.

And this is, IMO, what the FIA needs a balanced organization where those who are forming it's base are the ones who decide what is better for them.

I don't know what exactly are the flaws of Canadian democratic governance, but I know that there are countries where democracy works very well, one of the best examples being Switzerland, where people have a say in most of the laws that are brought to life.

I think we stressed this discussion enough and we can now agree to disagree. :)

[BDunnell]

Bagwan, democracy is not a fairy tale.
Until now it proved to be the best option for this world.

Not only that, but it ought to be perfectly easy to achieve in an organisation such as the FIA. It's hardly an idealistic aim, is it?

By the way, ioan, what precisely was it that changed your opinion of Max — that made you think that his outbursts were unacceptable and damaging?

[Bagwan]

I think we agree on the whole issue , and you haven't realized it yet .

Let me explain .
A dictator who acts harshly against his people ends his reign early , and usually abruptly .
A dictator who acts in a benevolent way can reign for many years .

That's not so unlike democracy .

So , we don't really disagree , do we ?

Max is a poor dictator .
We need a good one .

[ioan]

By the way, ioan, what precisely was it that changed your opinion of Max — that made you think that his outbursts were unacceptable and damaging?

He rules proposed for next year.
Especially the part that said that the WMSC can make any rule changes they want without consulting the teams or the technical working group. It sounded like something that went one step too far to be acceptable.

[ioan]

I think we agree on the whole issue , and you haven't realized it yet .

Let me explain .
A dictator who acts harshly against his people ends his reign early , and usually abruptly .
A dictator who acts in a benevolent way can reign for many years .

That's not so unlike democracy .

So , we don't really disagree , do we ?

Max is a poor dictator .
We need a good one .

Yes and no.
I agree there is need for someone good, but I disagree about the existence of a good dictator, or for that matter the existence of a person who should be granted absolute power, in any circumstances.

[markabilly]

There is, there is...I am one of them :p :
and so, mienen pino, Heute da Forum, morgen die Welt...and i dun thunk you was Etileian...

well, you would be following in the footprints of the grand master...,maybe fit right in.....and explains the sensitivity over max's little past "dress up" problems
and given the moderator role, as being used to having "THE POWER"......want some more...


or hopefully is it maybe too much :s mokin: or :beer:

Not only that, but it ought to be perfectly easy to achieve in an organisation such as the FIA. It's hardly an idealistic aim, is it?

Erm, the FIA is democratic.

Sure, it's not perfect and its open to manipulation but its more democratic than having 8 team owners chose who they want....the FIA isn't just about F1.

Member clubs vote. Non-members, like FOTA, don't have a vote but then it wouldn't be democratic if they did have a vote because they don't represent membership, just themselves.

The last time I looked it was the F1 teams that signed up to the 'unanimous' agreement required in the last Concorde Agreement. They were happy to have the power of veto over the majority decision.

Not exactly democracy as the ancient Athenians knew it.

Having F1 teams suddenly discover democracy is a bit rich, especially since F1 is a meritocracy in its basic competitive ethos and they've been more than happy to ignore democratic principles for years.

Having Luca Di Montezemolo, Flavio Briatore and their ilk trumpet the need for democracy is as hypocritical as if Nicolae Ceauşescu had become a spokesman for the freedom of the press.

[Sonic]

^ what tamb said. Well put.

[ioan]

Erm, the FIA is democratic.

Sure, it's not perfect and its open to manipulation but its more democratic than having 8 team owners chose who they want....the FIA isn't just about F1.

Member clubs vote. Non-members, like FOTA, don't have a vote but then it wouldn't be democratic if they did have a vote because they don't represent membership, just themselves.

The last time I looked it was the F1 teams that signed up to the 'unanimous' agreement required in the last Concorde Agreement. They were happy to have the power of veto over the majority decision.

Not exactly democracy as the ancient Athenians knew it.

Having F1 teams suddenly discover democracy is a bit rich, especially since F1 is a meritocracy in its basic competitive ethos and they've been more than happy to ignore democratic principles for years.

Having Luca Di Montezemolo, Flavio Briatore and their ilk trumpet the need for democracy is as hypocritical as if Nicolae Ceauşescu had become a spokesman for the freedom of the press.

Only that the FOTA don't want to vote about rules that regard WRC, or WTC, or anything else but F1, and they are F1 exactly.

Voting for laws and rules that regard you is exactly like people do in democracy.

I'm not going to vote for the president of the USA, nor in a referendum in Switzerland, I only vote for laws and representatives in my country, which is how the FIA should be too, thus the FOTA teams should be able to vote for the laws and rules that regard F1 because they are F1.

[Hondo]

They ought to name Max the head of FOTA right now. Then he'd be trying to dictate terms to himself, on both sides. It would destroy him. Sort of like matter hitting anti-matter.

[Sonic]

Hi Ioan. I've been giving your arguements some consideration and I have few questions;

Assuming for a moment that we let FOTA have voting rights iin matters regarding F1. How many votes does that give them? 8? (or 10 or even 13 if the new teams join the fold) Which clearly would be unfair as the governing body would never ever win.

Or do they get one vote once a majority verdict has been given by the FOTA members?

If so the president of the FIA and FOTA would always need to agree for any rules to get approved - never going to happen.

Finally what happens if a big issue splits FOTA and a number of teams split and form ITA (idependant team association). Would they now be given voting powers too? If so a character like maX can team up with whoever he needs to get a majority.

With the FIA as it stands I'm confused how your suggestion can be implemented, or do you want the entire governing body replaced/changed?

[ioan]

Hi Ioan. I've been giving your arguements some consideration and I have few questions;

Assuming for a moment that we let FOTA have voting rights iin matters regarding F1. How many votes does that give them? 8? (or 10 or even 13 if the new teams join the fold) Which clearly would be unfair as the governing body would never ever win.

Or do they get one vote once a majority verdict has been given by the FOTA members?

If so the president of the FIA and FOTA would always need to agree for any rules to get approved - never going to happen.

Finally what happens if a big issue splits FOTA and a number of teams split and form ITA (idependant team association). Would they now be given voting powers too? If so a character like maX can team up with whoever he needs to get a majority.

With the FIA as it stands I'm confused how your suggestion can be implemented, or do you want the entire governing body replaced/changed?

Each team gets the right to cast their vote as they see fit, that makes it 13 teams, with 5 of them manufacturer backed and the rest independent teams.

The FIA gets one vote and CVC/Bernie another one.

This way everyone can support their position towards any rule proposed by any of the parties.

A total of 15 votes, and this will make it sure that there will every time be a result as number of votes pro and contra can't be equal.

The system need to be fair to each of the participants otherwise someone will feel hard done and will probably take their toys and go home, and we don't want that, do we?!

PS: I feel honored that you gave some consideration to my pro-democratic arguments. :p

[Sonic]

More than some consideration my friend. I want the best possible governance for my fave sport so that it can be a healthy vibrant series which will entice those who have not seen the light yet to start watching and enjoying.

What concerns me most about your system is that the governing body is reduced to little more than a cog in the machine. If for example I was to tell the lawn tennis association that each player entered in a grand slam had a vote on any possible rule changes they would be outnumbered a hundered times over meaning the governing body couldn't acctually govern properly.

You've clearly put a lot of thought into this but I can't get onboard with your vision.

Thaks for the clarification though.

[ioan]

More than some consideration my friend. I want the best possible governance for my fave sport so that it can be a healthy vibrant series which will entice those who have not seen the light yet to start watching and enjoying.

What concerns me most about your system is that the governing body is reduced to little more than a cog in the machine. If for example I was to tell the lawn tennis association that each player entered in a grand slam had a vote on any possible rule changes they would be outnumbered a hundered times over meaning the governing body couldn't acctually govern properly.

You've clearly put a lot of thought into this but I can't get onboard with your vision.

Thaks for the clarification though.

Tennis players do not invest USD 500 million per season to compete, that's a big difference.

Now if the FIA agreed to pay for each teams expenses than I suppose the teams would be more than happy to give up on some of their voting rights.
Don't tell me you would be happy if someone outside your family would tell you to work for them under their rules and that you should also be the one who pays for this 'privilege'! ;)

I find it difficult that people can't accept that those who make up the sport should be able the have an equal say, all the while they have themselves a say in how a whole country is being ruled!

[ioan]

Here:



Adolf Hitler was a man who "was able to get things done," Ecclestone told The Guardian.

"In a lot of ways, terrible to say this I suppose, but apart from the fact that Hitler got taken away and persuaded to do things that I have no idea whether he wanted to do or not, he was in the way that he could command a lot of people, able to get things done.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...414428,00.html

Do you want this guy to have more say in F1 than the teams?!

[ArrowsFA1]

Should all the FIA member clubs (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/member-clubs/Pages/FIAMemberClubs.aspx) have such an influence over F1, or any other motorsports that fall under the umbrella of the FIA?

Just looking at, for example, the member organisations from Britain we see The AA, EuroRAP, RAC Motoring Services, The Camping & Caravan Club, The Caravan Club, The Institute of Advanced Motorists, The RAC, with the national sporting authority being the Motor Sports Association.

When FISA (the sporting arm of the FIA) existed, as it had since 1922, there was a sense of separation between two distinct aspects of the FIA - the likes of caravan club interests and motorsport interests - but since Max altered the FIA structure in 1993 there is no such separation.

I think that the issue of FIA governance would be improved if it were, once again, to devolve responsibility for motorsports to a reformed FISA.

[Sonic]

[quote="ioan"]Tennis players do not invest USD 500 million per season to compete, that's a big difference./QUOTE]

Just one example (chosen in the mists of murray mania). There is a certain russian investing millions in a london football club; I'm pretty sure his investment does not buy him any voting rights. If it did that doesn't sound very democratic to me.

[ioan]

Tennis players do not invest USD 500 million per season to compete, that's a big difference.

Just one example (chosen in the mists of murray mania). There is a certain russian investing millions in a london football club; I'm pretty sure his investment does not buy him any voting rights. If it did that doesn't sound very democratic to me.

Sure it does given that the Premier League it's own by the teams competing in it it's the teams who decide a big part of what's going on in their Championship.

However you chose a poor example as the Premier Leagues is only one of hundreds or thousand of football championships in the world all of them playing by the same rules, while F1 is the only one F1 championship and the only one sport that has this set of rules.
While teams in the Premier league can't change the rules of football as long as they want to take parts in the Champions league where they have to pay by the same rules as other teams that come from other national championships, F1 teams all compete in only one championship so they can propose and support sporting, technical and commercial rule changes without influence on any other sport or league outside of F1.

[Sonic]

You have sidestepped one of the most interesting points raised. You stated tennis players (and I assume any sports person) should not have a say in voting as they have not spent 500 million USD. I ask this; how much does democracy cost? 500 mill? 100? 30? Or is it just enough to compete? In which case why is it one rule for F1 and another for other sports? You yourself said no one should work in a dictatorship, but you seem to advocate it in other sports.

The FOTA teams knew F1 was not a democracy when they joined, but if they get a say, can I have one too? If I want FFord to dump the duratec engine in favour of a field mouse called gerald should I be listend to?

[markabilly]

I agree with benrie E, Hitler for president of the FIA, no more silly old fool playing make believe dress up games.....

[driveace]

And who was Max,s father? Oswald Moseley the fascist !

[ioan]

You have sidestepped one of the most interesting points raised. You stated tennis players (and I assume any sports person) should not have a say in voting as they have not spent 500 million USD. I ask this; how much does democracy cost? 500 mill? 100? 30? Or is it just enough to compete? In which case why is it one rule for F1 and another for other sports? You yourself said no one should work in a dictatorship, but you seem to advocate it in other sports.

No, I didn't sidestep anything.

Those who have a definitive and quantifiable input in anything, be it society or sporting league, should have a right to decide where that society heads too.

It's like you and me having the right to vote for a parliament/government and to have our say in a referendum over decisions that have a big impact on our lives.

As I pointed it out tennis players do not invest in their sport. F1 teams however do invest a hell of a lot of money and thus they are entitled to decide what they do with that money.


The FOTA teams knew F1 was not a democracy when they joined...

You got to be kidding.
What do you know about how F1 was ruled back in 1950 when Ferrari joined the series?! :rolleyes:
I bet it was a much more transparent and democratic FIA than we have today.


...but if they get a say, can I have one too? If I want FFord to dump the duratec engine in favour of a field mouse called gerald should I be listend to?

I didn't see any of the teams come up with a such a stupid proposal, plus I doubt the other 12 would agree anyway, so you see a democratic voting system would work pretty well, and no stupid idea would be supported by the majority.

[Sonic]

TYou'd actually do well in politics Ioan. You never answer a question! ;) so as I doubt you are going to tell me how much money it requires to gain voting powers IYO, at this point I shall step out of the discussion and stop boring everyone else.

Peace and love.

[BDunnell]

However you chose a poor example as the Premier Leagues is only one of hundreds or thousand of football championships in the world all of them playing by the same rules, while F1 is the only one F1 championship and the only one sport that has this set of rules.
While teams in the Premier league can't change the rules of football as long as they want to take parts in the Champions league where they have to pay by the same rules as other teams that come from other national championships, F1 teams all compete in only one championship so they can propose and support sporting, technical and commercial rule changes without influence on any other sport or league outside of F1.

I think football clubs are a poor example for you to choose, quite honestly, and in particular the English Premier League. Why? Well, they do wield enormous influence — not over the rules of the game, admittedly, but in many other respects. Look at how Manchester United were able to withdraw from the FA Cup one year in order to go and play in the World Club Championship. Look at how Sky TV, with whom the Premiership clubs are inextricably linked through the way in which that league was established in the first place, has been able to have an influence over the dates and times of matches.

[BDunnell]

No, I didn't sidestep anything.

Those who have a definitive and quantifiable input in anything, be it society or sporting league, should have a right to decide where that society heads too.

It's like you and me having the right to vote for a parliament/government and to have our say in a referendum over decisions that have a big impact on our lives.

As I pointed it out tennis players do not invest in their sport. F1 teams however do invest a hell of a lot of money and thus they are entitled to decide what they do with that money.

I don't see how tennis players don't have 'a definitive and quantifiable input' into their sport. Their input is in some ways one of the most significant ones of all — playing the sport professionally.

[ioan]

I don't see how tennis players don't have 'a definitive and quantifiable input' into their sport. Their input is in some ways one of the most significant ones of all — playing the sport professionally.

Sure, but how do you quantify it and what level of input is that. All they do is play and drivers are the doing the same thing in F1, but on top of that teams do invest several billions + huge human resources between them every season, something tennis players don't do.

[BDunnell]

Sure, but how do you quantify it and what level of input is that. All they do is play and drivers are the doing the same thing in F1, but on top of that teams do invest several billions + huge human resources between them every season, something tennis players don't do.

The career of a top professional tennis player does not come cheap either. For one thing, think of the coaching they receive over the course of that career. For another, sponsors invest huge amounts of money in them.

[ioan]

The career of a top professional tennis player does not come cheap either. For one thing, think of the coaching they receive over the course of that career. For another, sponsors invest huge amounts of money in them.

Tennis players invest in their training a part of the money they earn from the sport, this isn't the same with F1 teams who get from Bernie about 1/4er to 1/3rd from what they invested in the sport.

Asking someone to invest half a billion USD with the perspective of getting back maximum 150-180 millions, and on top of it trying to impose dictatorship on them is what kills the game.

[race_director]

President OBAMA . President

OSAMA --- FOTA TEAM HEAD :)

[BDunnell]

Erm, the FIA is democratic.

Sure, it's not perfect and its open to manipulation but its more democratic than having 8 team owners chose who they want....the FIA isn't just about F1.

Member clubs vote. Non-members, like FOTA, don't have a vote but then it wouldn't be democratic if they did have a vote because they don't represent membership, just themselves.

The last time I looked it was the F1 teams that signed up to the 'unanimous' agreement required in the last Concorde Agreement. They were happy to have the power of veto over the majority decision.

Not exactly democracy as the ancient Athenians knew it.

Having F1 teams suddenly discover democracy is a bit rich, especially since F1 is a meritocracy in its basic competitive ethos and they've been more than happy to ignore democratic principles for years.

Having Luca Di Montezemolo, Flavio Briatore and their ilk trumpet the need for democracy is as hypocritical as if Nicolae Ceauşescu had become a spokesman for the freedom of the press.

I must say, while I am now firmly of the belief that there need to be some major changes in the way the FIA works, you make some excellent points there.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ari Vatanen, the former world rally champion, has thrown his hat into the ring as a potential candidate to stand against Max Mosley as FIA president later this year...

...Vatanen was quoted as saying by news agency Reuters: "I'm consulting the member clubs and am already seeing positive feedback. I think the time has come for a change. I would go for it, even if not sure of winning."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76752

[Sonic]

Maybe he'd leave F1 alone!

[pino]

Vatanen would be a great choice, and an huge hope for all rallyfans ;)

[BDunnell]

Well, that's a bit of a (nice) surprise.

[markabilly]

MaX may not be anywhere close to dead yet, as it seems the democracy he spoke so loving of, is not exactly how the fia operates as maX changed the process, such that it must be a cabinet and gives massive advantages to the incumbent to help maX keep his place.... :(

I been telling youse guys, unlike the rest of you, MaX been reading up on da prince :love:



It confirmed that the list of candidates for president may be submitted from September 11 to October 2. The document also said that an application to stand for president had to include the 'full name, position and signature' of each of the 22 candidates being put forward to form the 'cabinet'.
This core group of people must include a President of the Senate, a Deputy President for Sport, a Deputy President for Automobile Mobility and Tourism, five members of the Senate, seven vice-presidents of the FIA for Sport and seven vice-presidents of the FIA for Automobile Mobility and Tourism.
Assembling a 22-strong team ready to be so public in its support is not an insurmountable problem, but one big difficulty is that none of the individuals on one presidential hopeful's list can be present on another.
The FIA document said: "A list cannot include a candidate who is already registered on another list, on pain of ineligibility of the said candidate. Should such be the case, (and after the identification by the FIA Secretariat) the list reader must provide a replacement for the 'lost' candidate in the conditions set out in the FIA Internal Regulations."
The impact of the system is that it is almost certainly beneficial to the incumbent. So, should Mosley choose to stand again, he will likely have in place the strongest team with the most widespread support - leaving rivals with no option but to choose a team of different cabinet members who may not be anywhere near as influential.
Furthermore, if there is more than one candidate that chooses to go up against Mosley, then that could further dilute the strength of the members of each of their rival cabinets.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76759

[Juppe]

Vatanen would be a great choice, and an huge hope for all rallyfans ;)


He would be a bad choice, because his views are medieval when it comes to environmental issues (among other things).

As that is one of the things that may destroy F1 in the near future, a candidate with more modern opinions would be a better choice fot the future of F1.

[ioan]

He would be a bad choice, because his views are medieval when it comes to environmental issues (among other things).

As that is one of the things that may destroy F1 in the near future, a candidate with more modern opinions would be a better choice fot the future of F1.

I completely agree with you! :up: :)

[Valve Bounce]

I completely agree with you! :up: :)

The problem with selecting someone who is familiar with most aspects of Motorsport is that any particular candidate would possibly have had links with some F1 team and some would view that this candidate would be seen as favoring (or NOT favoring) that particular team.

I have been inclined to favor both Jean Todt and Jackie Stewart but many here feel there are issues with both of them. So, how about Alain Prost? He's had connections with several teams and then his own. Maybe he could be viewed as impartial.

[markabilly]

The problem with selecting someone who is familiar with most aspects of Motorsport is that any particular candidate would possibly have had links with some F1 team and some would view that this candidate would be seen as favoring (or NOT favoring) that particular team.

I have been inclined to favor both Jean Todt and Jackie Stewart but many here feel there are issues with both of them. So, how about Alain Prost? He's had connections with several teams and then his own. Maybe he could be viewed as impartial.
all of you need to quit dreaming and wondering...unless MAx gets a big pay off (Open or under the table), he ain't going nowhere :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

all of you need to quit dreaming and wondering...unless MAx gets a big pay off (Open or under the table), he ain't going nowhere :rolleyes:

We could promise him a complimentary whipping :D

[markabilly]

We could promise him a complimentary whipping :D
"We"??? I will be happy to lay on the whip and cane, :up: :eek: :arrows:

but as to the other dreams of his desires.....the genital exam, the oral and other sex stuff.......... I leave to you and Ioan, although may be the mods could do something useful for a change, but you will have to send them some basic stuff, such as books like "sex for idiots" (although maybe Easy Drifter's girl friend would not mind if he lent out the one she bought him for his birthday).........

[Valve Bounce]

"We"??? I will be happy to lay on the whip and cane, :up: :eek: :arrows:

but as to the other dreams of his desires.....the genital exam, the oral and other sex stuff.......... I leave to you and Ioan, although may be the mods could do something useful for a change, but you will have to send them some basic stuff, such as books like "sex for idiots" (although maybe Easy Drifter's girl friend would not mind if he lent out the one she bought him for his birthday).........

I can see you've been at the Kool aid stuff again. :eek:

[markabilly]

I can see you've been at the Kool aid stuff again. :eek:
It will take a lot more than the kool aide to get me down to doing his genital exams, etc ....opps better go, I just saw Easy sort of drifting around here....................... :burnout:

[wmcot]

all of you need to quit dreaming and wondering...unless MAx gets a big pay off (Open or under the table), he ain't going nowhere :rolleyes:

There's always assassination! ;)

[wmcot]

I here Max is grooming Kim Jong Il for president. He seems to have the same level of madness!

[Valve Bounce]

I here Max is grooming Kim Jong Il for president. He seems to have the same level of madness!

Sorry, but Mr Kim is indisposed and possibly departing permanently quite soon.

[GridGirl]

Well if Ari becomes FIA president he's really gonna have to curb his frequentment of lap dancing clubs. I always know when Ari's in town from my boss talking about lap dancing clubs in the office. I think the FIA has had enough sex scandal stories lately but you do have to love Ari and his hobbies.

[jens]

I assume Vatanen is a good candidate. His advantage over Todt is that he isn't linked with any team so clearly, making him look less biased. And secondly he has a lot of experience from politics, which as we know is quite an important asset in the job of a FIA president.

I have noticed some Finns have criticized Vatanen here. Well, I haven't followed his deeds that deeply to comment on this, but I guess it's challenging to find a 'flawless' politician anyway - or what do you think?

[Sonic]

One mouth. Two ears. Genius! LOL :p :

[Giuseppe F1]

If you squint, Vatanen kinda looks like Mosley! ;)

[ioan]

If you squint, Vatanen kinda looks like Mosley! ;)

He looks like Max when he was younger.

[markabilly]

He looks like Max when he was younger.
well if he likes lap dancing instead of "dress up and spank", guess that would be an upgrade, unless it is at gay bars...

grid girl likes him and ssoooo

[ArrowsFA1]

Max has

confirmed that he will definitely not stand again in October's election[/*:m:2wrkapmw]
endorsed Jean Todt as his preferred candidate[/*:m:2wrkapmw]http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76980