Breakaway off

[Alfa Fan]

Just been announced that the breakaway series is off.

[ArrowsFA1]

An agreement has been reached between Formula 1's governing body and the teams to prevent a breakaway series, says FIA president Max Mosley. The two parties had been engulfed in a bitter row over planned budgetary and technical changes for the new season.
But it appears a resolution has not been found, with Mosley agreeing not to stand for re-election as part of the deal "now there is peace," he said.
More to follow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8116756.stm

[Mark]

Mosley has fallen on his sword then!

[ArrowsFA1]

Perhaps we'd best wait and see the detail... :crazy:

[Knock-on]

Blimey, this is a shock.... NOT!

With Max moving aside, the sport can move forward.

[skm]

FIA, FOTA ward off F1 breakaway threatJune 24, 2009 - 9:39PM .
Formula One's world governing body the FIA and the F1 teams association FOTA agreed Wednesday there will be no parallel championship next season following talks in Paris to ward off a threatened breakaway.

The accord followed a meeting of 120 members of the FIA and came in the wake of weeks of bitter rowing between the two bodies which centred on proposed tough spending limits from next season.

FIA president Max Mosley will now step aside, declaring: "I will not be up for re-election now we have peace."

Ahead of the meeting, Mosley had insisted that he would not step down as part of the price of any potential agreement and might seek re-election as head of world motor sport.

The 69-year-old Briton had been under pressure amid the disagreements emanating from the proposed budget cuts.

The Paris meeting was a clear-the-air opportunity for member clubs to hear from F1 teams about their plan to break away from the FIA and set up a rival series, a proposal which had led the FIA to prepare a legal claim against FOTA.

Writs against Ferrari and FOTA - which also includes McLaren, BMW Sauber, Renault, Toyota, Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso and Brawn GP - had been due to be served on Monday, but the FIA held back pending Wednesday's meeting.

[ArrowsFA1]

More on the BBC now - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8116756.stm

[AndyRAC]

Boo, hiss.....

[I am evil Homer]

Well there's a surprise....not. Still if it means a return to sensible debate around technical regulations and that odious er Max leaving I'm feeling slightly more positive.

[SteveMcQueen]

Told you, guys.

It was all about egos, nothing else, and one of them blinked first.

[CNR]

BYE BYE MAX
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gNv9ggDZmvk9j5gmh8MBY5RUU2fQ
Mosley to go as F1 breakaway threat ended


As a result, FIA president Max Mosley has confirmed he will not now stand for re-election when his fourth term ends in October.

[markabilly]

Blimey, this is a shock.... NOT!

With Max moving aside, the sport can move forward.
As long as greedy bernie is in the picture, NEVER will it move forward

If the choice was maX or Benieboy, I would have maX as president, and benie feeding the fishes
for sure

Next time you wonder there is no french GP, no brit, no spa, no austrialian, no usa, no canadian and the races are all in china, malmyass, dumyass, nigeria, ethomypia.......well screw bernie and every one of those teams that caved---wonder what bernie is paying LUCA under the table, as well as extra money over the table, this TIME :rotflmao:

remeber the sweet deal ferrari cut for itself before, when the last breakaway was threatened??????

i figured it would come to this, but i prayed it would NOT :down:

[F1boat]

At least the crazy tyrant will go.

[I am evil Homer]

Sorry Flavio's staying :D

"Man steps down when he was going to" shock.

In the end, nobody had the balls to follow through any of their threats, be it Max, Luca or anybody else.

Plus Ca Change.

[ioan]

So, they will have to come up with a new Concorde Agreement and spending will be cut back to early 90's levels in 2 years time.

What were the early 90's levels?!
I think it was still well over 100 millions for the bigger teams.

[ioan]

"Man steps down when he was going to" shock.

In the end, nobody had the balls to follow through any of their threats, be it Max, Luca or anybody else.

Plus Ca Change.

That's not what Max was singing 2 days ago, is it?

FOTA got what they wanted, more say into regulations, new concorde agreement, bringing in cost cuts over a few seasons to acceptable levels and no more Max!

Max blinked (or was made to) first!

[ioan]

As long as greedy bernie is in the picture, NEVER will it move forward

If the choice was maX or Benieboy, I would have maX as president, and benie feeding the fishes
for sure

Next time you wonder there is no french GP, no brit, no spa, no austrialian, no usa, no canadian and the races are all in china, malmyass, dumyass, nigeria, ethomypia.......well screw bernie and every one of those teams that caved---wonder what bernie is paying LUCA under the table, as well as extra money over the table, this TIME :rotflmao:

remeber the sweet deal ferrari cut for itself before, when the last breakaway was threatened??????

i figured it would come to this, but i prayed it would NOT :down:

Don't you worry, CVC and Bernie are going to earn less money from now on, the new Concorde Agreement won't be signed otherwise by the teams.

[markabilly]

That's not what Max was singing 2 days ago, is it?
Naw, amazing what a little money under the table can do, to change the song being sung, as I am sure it will be a paid vacation..................

afterall, the FIA is suppose to be a democracy, not run by those F1 teams (as max said in his own statement a couple of days ago, yet now he says, i gotta go?????)

What a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's not what Max was singing 2 days ago, is it?

FOTA got what they wanted, more say into regulations, new concorde agreement, bringing in cost cuts over a few seasons to acceptable levels and no more Max!

Max blinked (or was made to) first!

But what will change? It's not peace, just a cease-fire until next time. Anyone who thinks Max was the 'problem' is suffering from short-sightedness.

People thought Balestre going was peace in our time, remember?

[markabilly]

anyway, there goes bye, bye, my chances of ever seeing a GP at seca,


or anywhere in the usa

democracy, yeah right

[K-Pu]

It was clear that a split was going to be bad, but now it would be good to know the rules for the next year. And the entry list too...

I thought we´d finally have the breakaway series although the first time I said nothing would happen because nothing tends to happen, but seeing how things were going, I thought the FOTA were serious.

But no.

Finally their objective was to get rid of Max, and they have got it. And what happens with Take-The-Races-To-Nowhere Ecclestone? He´s still there, ready to get more money. I wonder if these cost-reduction measures will affect the tracks... If they do, maybe REAL tracks could come back to F1 because fees would be cheaper, but why do I have a gut feeling that tells me "in your wildest dreams, fool"?

When we see next year´s regs we´ll check if this war has achieved anything...

[woody2goody]

This is best for everyone. Now we can go racing in one proper series next year.

As long as the manufacturers don't milk it for all it's worth we'll be fine.

[markabilly]

I I wonder if these cost-reduction measures will affect the tracks... If they do, maybe REAL tracks could come back to F1 because fees would be cheaper,
...

in your wildest dreams, fool :(

[Bagwan]

Max is not gone until the election .
He's still there .

Indeed , we need to see the regs , and the entry list , to see what has really been achieved .

He's still there , making the rules , and they will be finalized before he leaves , so I hope they got more concessions than just him leaving , because he could really screw with things before he goes , if he does .
That would set it up , in a very Markabillion way , for him to say it was better when he was in charge .
Remember that he revelled in the support from the world's auto clubs when he was attacked by the camera whips .

There are 2 ways to look at this .
Max is ousted , due to the insistence of the FOTA teams , or , Max gives up his position to save F1 .
That's what it looks like today .

But , after the election , will the arguments stop ?
As Tamburello says , no .
But , I don't think it will be because of his reasoning . The teams understand that the business of F1 requires them to fight as a team themselves , as proved by them staying together as long as they have , despite being tested on many occasions .

I expect the rules will be not quite what we are hoping for , and that the championship is not quite as "saved" as we would imagine .
There will be calls to have Max back .

[ioan]

But what will change? It's not peace, just a cease-fire until next time.

Isn't that what happens in any democracy?!
We go and elect a president/government/parliament based on what they promise/propose than when they start going in other directions we start rubbishing them and they ultimately get it straight or step down or are voted out?!

This is how things work in a free world Tam, people agree on something and go ahead, as soon as they do not agree anymore they have a dispute over it and they try to reach a compromise.

I don't see where the problem is.

[Tazio]

in your wildest dreams, fool :(
Lear:
"Nothing can come of nothing: speak again."

King Lear 1, i 92

[Easy Drifter]

I will believe Mad Max is gone when there is a new president in place.
Mad Max has broken or gone back on his word so many times I wouldn't be surprised it he did it again.
After all things are going to be quiet (maybe) for the next few months and then watch Mad Max declare he is needed to keep F1 in line.
I really do not understand why so many are believing him this time.

[ArrowsFA1]

According to Autosport, based on Max's statement, what we have is:

Max will not stand for re-election[/*:m:4opqj354]
teams must call off the breakaway series[/*:m:4opqj354]
teams must sign up to a new Concorde Agreement until 2012[/*:m:4opqj354]
agreed to a reduction of costs[list:4opqj354]
spending levels of the early 1990s within two years[/*:m:4opqj354][/*:m:4opqj354]
one F1 championship[/*:m:4opqj354]
2010 entry list to be announced later today[/*:m:4opqj354][/list:u:4opqj354]The BBC report Luca saying

2009 rules will apply in 2010[/*:m:4opqj354]
same rules for everybody[/*:m:4opqj354]
Stability[/*:m:4opqj354]

[shurik]

I'd rather waith for confirmation from FOTA in first place..

And I'd not believe a single word Max says, it's always the same trick - lot's of promisses, but then, in the mid september Max will change his mind due to somthing and his pocket delegates will elect him again. Kinda reminds of communist party in ussr..
And teams would have to agree, because there would be no way to organize something in 6 months rather than in 9, like today. Max just trying to win some time for himself..

[Blancvino]

Let's be thankful the split notion is going to come to an end. A split would, in my view, KILL F1.

Those of you who want to wallow in the politics of the matter, have a great time. I'm just a fan of road racing hope this caca is over.

Let's go racing!!!

[N. Jones]

Hasn't Max stated twice before he was going to leave but then reversed his decision?

I won't believe it until his term is over.

BUT, if they have compromised that can only be good for everyone involved.

[555-04Q2]

Hate to say I told you so...it was never gonna happen.

[Knock-on]

Hasn't Max stated twice before he was going to leave but then reversed his decision?

I won't believe it until his term is over.

BUT, if they have compromised that can only be good for everyone involved.

I think that if he does decide to stand again, there will be an immediate bloody war.

[555-04Q2]

I think that if he does decide to stand again, there will be an immediate bloody war.

Agreed. He has overstayed his welcome for far to long now. Its amazing that he lasted this long, shows how stupid everyone else is :(

[N. Jones]

Well - this is because there is a one vote system in the FIA so that smaller organizations have an equal vote like the large organizations. What happens is the small orgs only have one or two moneymakers and so they are forced to vote for whoever will look out for their interests.

[pino]

According to Autosport, based on Max's statement, what we have is:

Max will not stand for re-election[/*:m:xvksu8m0]
teams must call off the breakaway series[/*:m:xvksu8m0]
teams must sign up to a new Concorde Agreement until 2012[/*:m:xvksu8m0]
agreed to a reduction of costs[list:xvksu8m0]
spending levels of the early 1990s within two years[/*:m:xvksu8m0][/*:m:xvksu8m0]
one F1 championship[/*:m:xvksu8m0]
2010 entry list to be announced later today[/*:m:xvksu8m0][/list:u:xvksu8m0]The BBC report Luca saying

2009 rules will apply in 2010[/*:m:xvksu8m0]
same rules for everybody[/*:m:xvksu8m0]
Stability[/*:m:xvksu8m0]

Also add that from today Max will have nothing to do with FIA's rules/decisions/etc.. anymore, and that's until he will be totally out.

[Wilderness]

Ding dong, the wicked witch is dead. Let's hope the deviant stays dead for good.

[Somebody]

People thought Balestre going was peace in our time, remember?
It was. It may not have been permanent, but that's an argument that the FIA president should have a fixed two-term limit, not that Balestre going didn't help matters at the time.


And I'd not believe a single word Max says, it's always the same trick - lot's of promisses, but then, in the mid september Max will change his mind due to somthing and his pocket delegates will elect him again. Kinda reminds of communist party in ussr..
And teams would have to agree, because there would be no way to organize something in 6 months rather than in 9, like today. Max just trying to win some time for himself..
If the teams didn't make Mosley sign a legally-binding contract saying that he would step down at the end of his term as part of this, then (A) I'd be very surprised and (B) they'd be a bunch of bloody fools.

[Bagwan]

I think that if he does decide to stand again, there will be an immediate bloody war.

"Catch-22" , Knockie , old spud .

A war would mean he must stay , but peace would mean he could go , but if he stays there would be war , and he could not leave , and so he must achieve true peace before he goes , but we know he can't if his being there means war , and a war means he must stay , but he can't stay if it means war , and , but , therefore , but , and , ................

Agree to his demands , and you can't , or , agree to his demands , and you can't .
It's one or the other .

[Jag_Warrior]

Hate to say I told you so...it was never gonna happen.

Oh, I believe if we checked FOTA's pistol, I think we'd find that it was indeed loaded... and I think they would have touched the trigger.

[Hondo]

Max isn't gone yet. While maybe he won't "stand" for re-election, that doesn't mean he wouldn't "accept" the job if the FIA came to him on bended knee, begging him to come back. I could see that happening easily.

I know egos play into some of this but the FIA and/or Max shouldn't be able to play with the technical specs like they do. KERS was ridiculous in theory and practice. Formula 1 is not about green and conservation. It is a high tech racing series about innovation and the extreme.

I'd like to think the FIA and Max were finally smart enough to see, after Silverstone, that the fans themselves believe Max to be the problem and the best way for Max to save F1 was for Max to leave F1.

[Somebody]

Again, if the teams haven't got a legally-binding contract with Max now preventing him from continuing in the role of FIA President after his term ends as part of their conditions for not breaking away, I'll be shocked.

[K-Pu]

Again, if the teams haven't got a legally-binding contract with Max now preventing him from continuing in the role of FIA President after his term ends as part of their conditions for not breaking away, I'll be shocked.

And do you think they´ll get that?

I don´t.

It could be a coincidence, but a while ago I was watching Monza 2000 race, and guess what they were saying:

"Max promises he will leave".

And that was 9 years ago, without the FIA-FOTA war and without sex scandals and when he was quite more reasonable. As it´s been said a lot of times here, Max is still there, and he can do a lot of damage and change his stance a lot of times, just like he´s done during this war. Remember how he seemed to be reasonable and the next minute he was in full dictatorship mode?

And again, Ecclestone is still out there. Nothing happened, or at least it hasn´t happened with enough force. It´s like politics. You have any kind of scandal, corruption or whatever, and what happens?

Nothing, or not enough if things go really nice.

And yes, I have always said it was better to have only one championship, but I wish it could be a bit cleaner. Wrong, wrong, wrong...

"They've got the rules they want and the stability; we've got the new teams in and the cost reduction,"

"As far as I'm concerned, the teams were always going to get rid of me in October," said Mosley. "Well they still are. Whether the person who succeeds me will be more to their liking remains to be seen."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76499

I do believe some of the more intelligent, perceptive members of the forum did originally say that a compromise would be found.

[I am evil Homer]

Max isn't gone yet. While maybe he won't "stand" for re-election, that doesn't mean he wouldn't "accept" the job if the FIA came to him on bended knee, begging him to come back. I could see that happening easily.

I know egos play into some of this but the FIA and/or Max shouldn't be able to play with the technical specs like they do. KERS was ridiculous in theory and practice. Formula 1 is not about green and conservation. It is a high tech racing series about innovation and the extreme.

I'd like to think the FIA and Max were finally smart enough to see, after Silverstone, that the fans themselves believe Max to be the problem and the best way for Max to save F1 was for Max to leave F1.


You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Innovation and "green" can go together they're not mutually exclusive! F1 should be helping to drive that by using some of the best brains in the business.

The thinking behind KERS (kinetic energy will be a big deal over the next 10 years for road cars) was IMO correct, the application completely wrong.

[Somebody]

And do you think they´ll get that?

I don´t.
I think that if they HADN'T ALREADY got that, the breakaway would still be on. There's absolutely no trust between the teams and Max - they simply wouldn't take him at his word after everything that's gone on, in both the past few years in general, and the past few weeks in particular.

[K-Pu]

I think that if they HADN'T ALREADY got that, the breakaway would still be on. There's absolutely no trust between the teams and Max - they simply wouldn't take him at his word after everything that's gone on, in both the past few years in general, and the past few weeks in particular.

Yes, you are absolutely right, but the problem is that their negotiations are as twisted and stinky as my guts.

I want to believe Max is sent to the stratosphere (along with Bernie) and does never come back, but he´s still in a good position and can be very harmful. And power is addictive...

Everybody put him out of the FIA with the sex scandal (I didn´t, but that´s different), and he stood still. Now we´ll see. Are FOTA´s threats enough to make him see reality?

I hope so, but I have my doubts because there´s nothing more dangerous than someone with an idea in mind and poised to make it real no matter how difficult / stupid / dangerous it is. And Max fits...

[Knock-on]

I do believe some of the more intelligent, perceptive members of the forum did originally say that a compromise would be found.

Thank you very much. High praise indeed :)

[Somebody]

Everybody put him out of the FIA with the sex scandal (I didn´t, but that´s different), and he stood still. Now we´ll see. Are FOTA´s threats enough to make him see reality?

I'm saying that I expect that the teams have a legally-binging contract saying that Max will no longer be the FIA President after the end of his current term. With an umpteen-million pound penalty written in to prevent shenanigans.

That wouldn't be a "threat", it would be "game over". And after everything that's gone on, I simply don't see how or why the teams would settle for anything less.

[Nikki Katz]

Well thank flip that's over.

[VkmSpouge]

Yay! Hurrah for common sense!

Max Mosley going at the end of the year :D
No breakaway series :D
13 teams for 2010 :D

Peace in our time? Nah. What's going to be the next row?

[jens]

Have to say it's a bit of a surprise and even slightly puzzling, raising several questionmarks. It seems like that damn Bernie together wits its CVC, debts and astronomical prices will stay. :down: Secondly I wonder, what are the guarantees that Mosley will indeed step down? Will there be a FIA reform? I mean if Max doesn't continue, someone else from this corrupt organization will take over his tasks and nothing really changes. Another theory would be that since Luca and Max were debating really seriously yesterday/today, maybe they reached a deal that Todt will take over the role as the President? It's extremely hard to believe that after such long-lasting opposition Max suddenly gives up so easily. He must have a plan B?! Even if he knew that FOTA is gonna set up a breakaway and FIA's F1 would die inevitably, such sudden "defeat" is stunning.

All in all I find that creating its own series FOTA would have succeeded more than they did now (if at all). A golden opportunity - the best one of all times - was missed.

[Sonic]

Thank the 12 lords! The FIA have been right all along with their stance that F1 is theirs to gouvern, but Max has been a total megelomaniac in his stand of with FOTA and he needed to go. So thankfully everything is now the way it should be. The FIA with a strong (hopefully impartial) leader and FOTA having input but not the last word.

The king is dead. Long live the king. So say we all.

[BDunnell]

I would say that's a line pretty effectively drawn. And I agree with the comment directly above.

[El Sween]

GPWC all over again. I give it four years before the next breakaway threat.

[Robinho]

i actually hope that this means that Donington can get itself sorted for next year now - much as everyone has lamented Silverstones passing we were again left with a pretty poor race this year, overshadowed by the hype about the FOTA breakaway. as good as the circuit is for driving, it does not a great spectacle make. i'm intrigued by the possibility of modern F1 at Donington. it may prove to be a disaster and no better than Silverstone, but i'd like it to at least be given the chance - and now F1 is going to be F1 next year i might scope out some tickets

[yodasarmpit]

Thank the 12 lords! The FIA have been right all along with their stance that F1 is theirs to gouvern, but Max has been a total megelomaniac in his stand of with FOTA and he needed to go. So thankfully everything is now the way it should be. The FIA with a strong (hopefully impartial) leader and FOTA having input but not the last word.

The king is dead. Long live the king. So say we all.Loving the Battlestar references :)

[BDunnell]

GPWC all over again. I give it four years before the next breakaway threat.

I prefer to be more optimistic, and don't think that this is a naive view to take. But much depends on who is the next FIA President and the relations he manages to achieve with FOTA. Maybe, just maybe, some lessons have been learned.

[El Sween]

I prefer to be more optimistic, and don't think that this is a naive view to take. But much depends on who is the next FIA President and the relations he manages to achieve with FOTA. Maybe, just maybe, some lessons have been learned.


Me too. I never believed for a second this would happen. Just like the GPWC. It's all empty threats by the teams to get what they want and it will happen again. Sadly.

[ioan]

If the teams didn't make Mosley sign a legally-binding contract saying that he would step down at the end of his term as part of this, then (A) I'd be very surprised and (B) they'd be a bunch of bloody fools.

They didn't because that would be illegal.

[ioan]

The thinking behind KERS (kinetic energy will be a big deal over the next 10 years for road cars) was IMO correct, the application completely wrong.

I agree.
Did you guys know that trains, yes trains, use KERS and they manage to reduce the consumption by 30% by doing so?!

[wedge]

"They've got the rules they want and the stability; we've got the new teams in and the cost reduction,"

"As far as I'm concerned, the teams were always going to get rid of me in October," said Mosley. "Well they still are. Whether the person who succeeds me will be more to their liking remains to be seen."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76499

I do believe some of the more intelligent, perceptive members of the forum did originally say that a compromise would be found.

Compromise? More like Max Mosley enjoyed being whip-lashed by FOTA and having Montezemolo being dressed up as a Fascist.

[BDunnell]

I agree.
Did you guys know that trains, yes trains, use KERS and they manage to reduce the consumption by 30% by doing so?!

Yes, and for reasons other than wanting to overtake another train, which is what KERS has, rather demeaningly towards the technology, become in F1.

[schmenke]

...
Did you guys know that trains, yes trains, use KERS and they manage to reduce the consumption by 30% by doing so?!

Makes sense. A train is probably the most convenient application for a KERS system. There's a considerable amount of recoverable energy from a decelerating mass of several thousand tons. Also, given the fact that all trains are electrically powered, the logistics of transferring the energy back into the drive train( :p : ) is much easier, i.e. no gearbox involved.

[markabilly]

Let's be thankful the split notion is going to come to an end. A split would, in my view, KILL F1.

Those of you who want to wallow in the politics of the matter, have a great time. I'm just a fan of road racing hope this caca is over.

Let's go racing!!!


geeass, guy has american flag and he is from INDY!!!!

Dude, I hate to tell, as long as the split might happen, there was a chance for a small little event in your hometown returning, something called USA Grand Prix.

You may have heard of that race in some distant past.

With bernei back in the control seat of HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT IT...IF YOU GOT THE MONEY, I GOT THE RACE...


well you can kiss that USA GP goodf****ing bye, bye....




Oh, I believe if we checked FOTA's pistol, I think we'd find that it was indeed loaded... and I think they would have touched the trigger.

:rotflmao: You beleive that??? :rotflmao:

thought you smarter than that---

loaded pistol??

more like loaded bank account.....

ALL it means is bernie paid luca some extra, a little taste, under the table, made some sweetheart deal to keep it a series for just a few manufactures, probably a little something special for Ferrari, and a little cash (50 million or so) to be deleivered when maX is gone....
in a world of the lesser of two evils, the lesser seems to be going---Besdies, just as I predicted, and it would not surprize me that MaX's latest scmemeing was just a power play to suck, like a two dollar prostitute, more cash out of bernie....and as the "fall guy", he laughs all the way to the bank

someone should have taken his Prince away and burned it along time ago....



Best thing about Max being prez, it kept the split notion alive....now, bye bye USAGP for good, along with a number of other races.....like Canadian, etc and so forth, as ole Bernie moves the circus to dubakissass and wherever else some third world government pays him money under the table

fans lose--- :rolleyes:
deep down inside, knowing there was a chance to be rid of bernie, my gut said that I knew it would never happen

[Valve Bounce]

There is a strong rumour that Max will be presented a Golden Whip on his retirement. Ron Dennis has not agreed to do the presentation.

[Blancvino]

geeass, guy has american flag and he is from INDY!!!!

Dude, I hate to tell, as long as the split might happen, there was a chance for a small little event in your hometown returning, something called USA Grand Prix.

You may have heard of that race in some distant past.

With bernei back in the control seat of HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT IT...IF YOU GOT THE MONEY, I GOT THE RACE...


well you can kiss that USA GP goodf****ing bye, bye....

There is nothing more I would like than for F1 to come bqack to Indianapolis.

I watched CART crumble into Champcar and then into the hands of a moron. I don't want to see the same happen to F1. Are there problems, yes. But fix them from within. The split would have unintended consequences. And, in my view, not for the better.

Just one man's view on the matter.

[Mark]

Makes sense. A train is probably the most convenient application for a KERS system. There's a considerable amount of recoverable energy from a decelerating mass of several thousand tons. Also, given the fact that all trains are electrically powered, the logistics of transferring the energy back into the drive train( :p : ) is much easier, i.e. no gearbox involved.

But still rather complex. The idea on trains is slightly different anyway as they don't have an onboard battery which provides the power. Quite simply when a train brakes it puts the generated electricity back into the overhead wires.

BMW have recently announced a car that uses KERS, but just to charge the battery, not for motion.

But of course hybrids all use it.

[555-04Q2]

Oh, I believe if we checked FOTA's pistol, I think we'd find that it was indeed loaded... and I think they would have touched the trigger.

I'm also sure the pistol was loaded, but the FOTA bosses arent idiots, most of them at least. The gun was loaded but they never intended firing it, only using it to scare the FIA. They understand what a huge task a new series would have been , hence the final result is F1 still goes on.

[markabilly]

There is nothing more I would like than for F1 to come bqack to Indianapolis.

I watched CART crumble into Champcar and then into the hands of a moron. I don't want to see the same happen to F1. Are there problems, yes. But fix them from within. The split would have unintended consequences. And, in my view, not for the better.

Just one man's view on the matter.
I could never see a major USA open wheel racing series succeeding w/o indy 500....just like the breakaway could not succeed w/o monaco, spa, and other major tracks being a part of it. When it became clear, there was not ONE team of any signifgance going to stay with FIA, and not ONE major european track either, than the new series would not have the problems presented that were presented to the champ car breakaway, and the fia was about to be left with nothing, not even the monaco GP (sort of like if champ car had also gained control of the Indy track...)

now it looks like we are back to being subjects of benie's greed, god help us all :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

My post on the other thread is relevant. No good my writing the same thing here.

[ioan]

BMW have recently announced a car that uses KERS, but just to charge the battery, not for motion.

That would reduce consumption by a small amount, not sure if it's worth the price.

The limiting factor seems to be the batteries, but then again here are already cars that run solely on batteries, so why manufacturers like BMW aren't willing to compromise?

[ioan]

My post on the other thread is relevant. No good my writing the same thing here.

You could've at least added a link. :p

[Valve Bounce]

You could've at least added a link. :p
I forgot what I said and where I said it :(

[christophulus]

I did think there'd be a compromise eventually, it's what the fans and sponsors wanted after all - by that I mean unity, not keeping F1 running as before.

I understand the point about keeping the regs the same, it's probably too late to make any real changes, but surely now is the time to be planning for 2011. The teams got what they wanted, now let's see a change for good, not more of the same!

[ClarkFan]

I could never see a major USA open wheel racing series succeeding w/o indy 500....just like the breakaway could not succeed w/o monaco, spa, and other major tracks being a part of it. When it became clear, there was not ONE team of any signifgance going to stay with FIA, and not ONE major european track either, than the new series would not have the problems presented that were presented to the champ car breakaway, and the fia was about to be left with nothing, not even the monaco GP (sort of like if champ car had also gained control of the Indy track...)

One more difference was a side effect of self-interest (read: greed). No one in the FIA establishment was willing to start funding a money-losing F1 World Championship - FOM, CVC and the FIA all need F1 to generate cash for them. In the US, Tony George was willing to spend his family's fortune to subsidize the IRL and perpetuate the split, even after the CART teams left.

Let's hear it for the greedy b@$tards! :beer:

ClarkFan

[ioan]

I did think there'd be a compromise eventually, it's what the fans and sponsors wanted after all - by that I mean unity, not keeping F1 running as before.

I understand the point about keeping the regs the same, it's probably too late to make any real changes, but surely now is the time to be planning for 2011. The teams got what they wanted, now let's see a change for good, not more of the same!

The rules were kept the same mainly because the teams want stability and not a spending race.

[harsha]

Always knew it was gonna end up this way,Max had to blink first....

[Sonic]

Loving the Battlestar references :)

I hoped someone might notice. :p how about the old man for FIA president

I hoped someone might notice. :p how about the old man for FIA president

Frack, no!

[BDunnell]

Here we go again:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8119983.stm

I'm afraid any sympathy I might once have had for Mosley has gone right out of the window. Genuinely, I would not be surprised if everything he's been through in the past year has turned his mind a little bit.

[ioan]

I agree.
He seems to have lost any bit of common sense he might have had.

The fact that either FOTA or LdM didn't even bother to answer him means he has not foot to stand on and the agreement in place will see Max go no matter if he wants it or not.

Going public will only insure that he goes with a big kick in the backside, something that he looks to be seeking and enjoying.

[Sonic]

Why can't he just shunt the hell up?

[markabilly]

I agree.
He seems to have lost any bit of common sense he might have had.

The fact that either FOTA or LdM didn't even bother to answer him means he has not foot to stand on and the agreement in place will see Max go no matter if he wants it or not.

Going public will only insure that he goes with a big kick in the backside, something that he looks to be seeking and enjoying.
I do not think an agreement between BE and FOTA is enough, if maX decides to fight it, it will take "the vote", and I did not think he would survive the last one, but he did.

And before you go arguing logic dictates......, well given the behavior of the FIA of the last few years, there is nothing logical about those people and nothing stranger....so it ain't over until it is over when maX removes his personal handcuffs, leather items and other stuff from his desk....and the announcement comes that "Elvis has departed the building..."

[grantb4]

Why can't he just shunt the hell up?

Totally. Where is the thread, "Breakaway Series Back On" ?

[VkmSpouge]

Why can't he just shunt the hell up?

I agree. If it wasn't illegal I would recommend someone simply lock him away gagged, bound and sedated until he was no longer FIA President.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I agree. If it wasn't illegal I would recommend someone simply lock him away gagged, bound and sedated until he was no longer FIA President.

no, just kick him to death.

[Somebody]

no, just kick him to death.

He'd enjoy that too much.

[555-04Q2]

Why can't he just shunt the hell up?

Its typical of a person in a powerful position. 99% of people in top positions (in business, government, households etc) dont know when to shut up and manage or how to talk out when it needs to be done.

MM seems to be trying to get the last word in to show who's boss :(

He's a right royal w@nker :down:

[UltimateDanGTR]

He'd enjoy that too much.

:laugh: i love it!

what about explode him? :grenade:
:hot: or set him on fire?
:arrows: I would say smash with a mallet, but hed like that too much aswell

:ninja: or we could cut him up?


so many things to do..........

[Ghostwalker]

about MM just deal with him like they did with Napoleon; a one way ticket to St. Helena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Helena)

[CNR]

Q: dose max have demencha

Max Mosley says he could remain as president of the FIA

[AndyL]

about MM just deal with him like they did with Napoleon

Yes that would be quite appropriate wouldn't it :)

[Nikki Katz]

I will be so annoyed if Max's back down last week was just to cost FOTA even more time. Is he really intent on destroying both F1 and any breakaway series?