The value of the Ferrari team

[ioan]

So according to the British Sports Pro Magazine:


The highest ranked European team property is the Ferrari Formula One team (7th) at a value of US$1.55 billion, followed by Manchester United Football Club (8th) at US$1.495 billion.

Also:


Unsurprisingly, the most valuable competition is the Fifa World Cup (5th) valued at US$1.7 billion, ahead of the Summer Olympic Games (15th) at US$1.04 billion. The Uefa Champions League (13th) is valued at US$1.1 billion, eclipsing the Summer Olympics due to its annual status.

Where does that leave the F1 World Championship?!

http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_and_insights/_a/worlds_most_valuable_sports_properties_top_200/

So Maxie, who's bigger? Ferrari or F1?! :D

[Saint Devote]

So Ferrari packs up its red toys and leaves - personally I have always rated Colin Chapman and his Lotus team far superior to the ego of the eccentric Enzo Ferrari.

It was Lotus led by the greatest racing car innovator, Chapman, that used to shift F1 all over the place. When has Ferrari been a leader? Never.

Ferrari has always been a follower and rested on the mistaken notion that engines were everything. Well Chapman demonstrated time and again that that is not the case.

Chapman was a man - he was not into histrionics and threatening to withdraw when he did not get his own way. He would, in true English fashion knuckle down and demostrate who was the best.

Briatore and Montezemolo are like little girls, and ought to be treated like the man-children that they are.

Let Ferrari go. Let Renault leave.

Formula 1 will reetablish itself with one of the top teams and the dominant team during 1980 - 1997, Williams. It will have a new team represented by relatively new - and real wealth - Force India.

It will have a much beloved and rspected name in engines, Cosworth.

And it will attract good drivers that will become household names. Prior to 2007 only people like myself and others that cherish and love motor racing knew the name Lewis Hamilton.

So I say to FOTA "bugger off". Do your damndest. But f1 is not about you, it never was and never will be.

The value of the Ferrari team may be high to the celebrity fickle world but they are merely another team - and a team I might add that could hardly win grands prix let alone championships for almost 20 years prior to 2000!

[ioan]

So Ferrari packs up its red toys and leaves - personally I have always rated Colin Chapman and his Lotus team far superior to the ego of the eccentric Enzo Ferrari.

It was Lotus led by the greatest racing car innovator, Chapman, that used to shift F1 all over the place. When has Ferrari been a leader? Never.

Ferrari has always been a follower and rested on the mistaken notion that engines were everything. Well Chapman demonstrated time and again that that is not the case.

Chapman was a man - he was not into histrionics and threatening to withdraw when he did not get his own way. He would, in true English fashion knuckle down and demostrate who was the best.

Briatore and Montezemolo are like little girls, and ought to be treated like the man-children that they are.

Let Ferrari go. Let Renault leave.

Formula 1 will reetablish itself with one of the top teams and the dominant team during 1980 - 1997, Williams. It will have a new team represented by relatively new - and real wealth - Force India.

It will have a much beloved and rspected name in engines, Cosworth.

And it will attract good drivers that will become household names. Prior to 2007 only people like myself and others that cherish and love motor racing knew the name Lewis Hamilton.

So I say to FOTA "bugger off". Do your damndest. But f1 is not about you, it never was and never will be.

The value of the Ferrari team may be high to the celebrity fickle world but they are merely another team - and a team I might add that could hardly win grands prix let alone championships for almost 20 years prior to 2000!

And your point being?! :rolleyes:

Like it or not the Ferrari F1 team is the most expensive European sporting brand, valued more than the F1 World championship! :D

This just shows that Max is a lunatic who doesn't know what he talks! :rotflmao:

[Bagwan]

This devoted saint sounds like Max .

Do you think the "man-children" should be whipped ?
Is that the treatment you would recommend ?

[yodasarmpit]

Ferrari is, and has been for some time, the biggest brand in F1 undoubtedly, however it's value is founded on it's F1 connection.

What would Ferrari's value be if it left F1, and joined another formula (not in conjunction with the rest of the F1 grid)?
F1 would drop in value at the loss of Ferrari sure, but Ferrari would loose a hell of a lot more.

The sport is bigger than one team, a team that we all want to see in F1 but just another team non the less.
The same goes for the likes of McLaren.

[Saint Devote]

Ferrari is, and has been for some time, the biggest brand in F1 undoubtedly, however it's value is founded on it's F1 connection.

What would Ferrari's value be if it left F1, and joined another formula (not in conjunction with the rest of the F1 grid)?
F1 would drop in value at the loss of Ferrari sure, but Ferrari would loose a hell of a lot more.

The sport is bigger than one team, a team that we all want to see in F1 but just another team non the less.
The same goes for the likes of McLaren.

Well said!

And Enzo Ferrari understood that - and I am sure Montezemolo does too. I remain skeptical that Ferrari will actually leave. Luca cannot be that misguided.

On the other hand, Gunter Schmidt reincarnated, aka Briatore, is probably numbskulled enough to think he is another Bernie. There is only one Flavio and, you are not Bernie even though you may LOOK older than he does!

[wmcot]

Ferrari is, and has been for some time, the biggest brand in F1 undoubtedly, however it's value is founded on it's F1 connection.

What would Ferrari's value be if it left F1, and joined another formula (not in conjunction with the rest of the F1 grid)?
F1 would drop in value at the loss of Ferrari sure, but Ferrari would loose a hell of a lot more.


That depends on what they do. They seemed to be pretty well recognized when they had a successful sports car program and won Le Mans regularly. A Le Mans winning Ferrari might even have a bigger appeal and be more relative to a potential Ferrari road car customer than their F1 cars carry. Look at the success of the F430's - that has got to impress a buyer looking at an F430!

[wmcot]

So Ferrari packs up its red toys and leaves - personally I have always rated Colin Chapman and his Lotus team far superior to the ego of the eccentric Enzo Ferrari.

It was Lotus led by the greatest racing car innovator, Chapman, that used to shift F1 all over the place. When has Ferrari been a leader? Never.

Ferrari has always been a follower and rested on the mistaken notion that engines were everything. Well Chapman demonstrated time and again that that is not the case.

Chapman was a man - he was not into histrionics and threatening to withdraw when he did not get his own way. He would, in true English fashion knuckle down and demostrate who was the best.

Briatore and Montezemolo are like little girls, and ought to be treated like the man-children that they are.

Let Ferrari go. Let Renault leave.

Formula 1 will reetablish itself with one of the top teams and the dominant team during 1980 - 1997, Williams. It will have a new team represented by relatively new - and real wealth - Force India.

It will have a much beloved and rspected name in engines, Cosworth.

And it will attract good drivers that will become household names. Prior to 2007 only people like myself and others that cherish and love motor racing knew the name Lewis Hamilton.

So I say to FOTA "bugger off". Do your damndest. But f1 is not about you, it never was and never will be.

The value of the Ferrari team may be high to the celebrity fickle world but they are merely another team - and a team I might add that could hardly win grands prix let alone championships for almost 20 years prior to 2000!

Ah, nostalgia! Sadly, Lotus is gone, Colin Chapman is gone and bell-bottomed pants are gone. The world has changed and F1 has changed. Ferrari is still THE marketing tool in F1. Ask any person on the street to name a famous racing team and they will more than likely say, "Ferrari."

If you could take a world-wide poll of name recognition, Ferrari would probably be recognized by 80% of the world's population. Williams would probably be about 1% and Cosworth would be in the fractions of a percent. Even in the 70s and early 80s when Cosworth filled most of the grid, it was never a household name like Ferrari.

[Big Ben]

I want all of them to stay and even more to come. How do we achieve that? We get rid of the moron and the dwarf. To me it seems that those two are bigger than the sport because I can see the teams leaving but not them.

[Mark]

For a long time in Ferrari's history, sports car racing was the top priority and Formula 1 took second place to that. Not to say they are going back to that route but Ferrari is not entirely F1.

[Knock-on]

So Ferrari packs up its red toys and leaves - personally I have always rated Colin Chapman and his Lotus team far superior to the ego of the eccentric Enzo Ferrari.

It was Lotus led by the greatest racing car innovator, Chapman, that used to shift F1 all over the place. When has Ferrari been a leader? Never.

Ferrari has always been a follower and rested on the mistaken notion that engines were everything. Well Chapman demonstrated time and again that that is not the case.

Chapman was a man - he was not into histrionics and threatening to withdraw when he did not get his own way. He would, in true English fashion knuckle down and demostrate who was the best.

Briatore and Montezemolo are like little girls, and ought to be treated like the man-children that they are.

Let Ferrari go. Let Renault leave.

Formula 1 will reetablish itself with one of the top teams and the dominant team during 1980 - 1997, Williams. It will have a new team represented by relatively new - and real wealth - Force India.

It will have a much beloved and rspected name in engines, Cosworth.

And it will attract good drivers that will become household names. Prior to 2007 only people like myself and others that cherish and love motor racing knew the name Lewis Hamilton.

So I say to FOTA "bugger off". Do your damndest. But f1 is not about you, it never was and never will be.

The value of the Ferrari team may be high to the celebrity fickle world but they are merely another team - and a team I might add that could hardly win grands prix let alone championships for almost 20 years prior to 2000!

You make some very good points.

I think I agree with your fundemental belief but don't believe it is the right way to go if Max is still there.

My reasoning is that Max is a meglomaniac and his goal is to control F1 and what happens in it. Not from a technical level but from a sporting perspective.

That's why I believe F1 needs to break away or break Max before it can move forward.

With Max out of the way, I think your ethos has much merit.

[ioan]

Ferrari is, and has been for some time, the biggest brand in F1 undoubtedly, however it's value is founded on it's F1 connection.

What would Ferrari's value be if it left F1, and joined another formula (not in conjunction with the rest of the F1 grid)?

If they gleave to other series and perform as well as in F1 than they keep their value.

However if Ferrari goes the F1 WC value will likely take a huge cut.



F1 would drop in value at the loss of Ferrari sure, but Ferrari would loose a hell of a lot more.

Based on what?

Ferrari will certainly continue to compete in the highest profile motorsport, whatever it's name will be.

While Formula 1 will have to show up with Manor, Campos and Co.




The sport is bigger than one team, a team that we all want to see in F1 but just another team non the less.

The F1 image is associated with Ferrari more than Ferrari is associated with F1.

Tell someone F1 and most people will think about the red cars!
Tel someone about Ferrari and they will again think about red cars!

Enough said.

[ioan]

With Max out of the way, I think your ethos has much merit.

Only that you will find that he is more found of max than of F1. ;)

[Oli_M]

What worries me here slightly - notice what is at number 4 on the list....

A series confined to just the USA is worth (probably) double that of what should be a world-wide, premier motorsport series. This list really shows that America and American products really excel at being able to market themselves.

I'd really like to see the full list - I'm sure there would be a few more surprises in it!

[ioan]

What worries me here slightly - notice what is at number 4 on the list....

A series confined to just the USA is worth (probably) double that of what should be a world-wide, premier motorsport series. This list really shows that America and American products really excel at being able to market themselves.

I'd really like to see the full list - I'm sure there would be a few more surprises in it!

I'd like to see it as well, but I have no subscription to this magazine.

[Knock-on]

Only that you will find that he is more found of max than of F1. ;)

Someone has a different viewpoint and you make assumptions like this :rolleyes:

Can't you see over the top of your glasses what he's trying to say.

Ferrari are an asset to F1 as are Williams, McLaren, FI and other teams trying to break into F1. It would be great to move F1 back to a racing series and the only reason a lot of people agree with a breakaway is because of the way the FIA is structured and run by Max.

I suggest that most people, fans and teams, would be happy to see Max removed and a fairer, equitable F1 born out of the festering turd that is the current structure.

Personally, if we had a decent racing series with transparant regulations, no bias and an affordable competitive entry level, I would be overjoyed. However, I am firmly of the belief that this is without Max.

All the years people like you have been championing Max as this decent, stand up bloke, he has been rotting F1 and the FIA from the inside. If you didn't see it then, it may have been because it suited your POV and fanzoid attitude. It's time to take a reasoned look at what is best for the sport and not from the perspective of an individual team.

[ioan]

Someone has a different viewpoint and you make assumptions like this :rolleyes:

Don't be a fool, go over to the autosport forum and read his posts than you'll see why I have the view I have about him.

[Knock-on]

Don't be a fool, go over to the autosport forum and read his posts than you'll see why I have the view I have about him.

I don't give a toss about what someones written on another forum. He might have written you are an unrealistic fanboy with little grasp on reality for all I care and it would have no bearing on this discussion.

Why not answer the post as a basis for discussion instead of doing your usual trick of just a one liner which disuaded discussion rather than prompts it.

I tried to engage a few of his points and outlined why my view differed in my response but instead of elaborating on a post, you merely quoted one line again to allow you to be dismissive.

I don't care what his views are but they are valid and worthy of discussion. If you have fallen out with him, then that's between the two of you but knowing you're MO tends to suggest to me that he is probably alright :D

[ioan]

I don't care what his views are but they are valid and worthy of discussion.

That's your point of view about his views, IMO there is nothing to discuss. So let's agree to disagree before it gets messy.

[mstillhere]

Ferrari is, and has been for some time, the biggest brand in F1 undoubtedly, however it's value is founded on it's F1 connection.

What would Ferrari's value be if it left F1, and joined another formula (not in conjunction with the rest of the F1 grid)?
F1 would drop in value at the loss of Ferrari sure, but Ferrari would loose a hell of a lot more.

The sport is bigger than one team, a team that we all want to see in F1 but just another team non the less.
The same goes for the likes of McLaren.

Nobody would ever know for sure who would be a bigger loser if F1 were to split. Nobody does and nobody will know for sure since they are not going to split. However, based on facts, it was Mosley who gave in and who is not running for re-election. Montezemolo and FOTA won. So, based on these facts to me it looks more like it would have been more of a loss for F1 (Max and Bernie) than for Ferrari and Renault, and Mercedes, and so on.

[mstillhere]

and according to an italian newspaper, Mosley will step down as a the President of the FIA and would be replaced by someone else.

It looks like in Paris Mosley got "guillottined".

[F1boat]

It looks like in Paris Mosley got "guillottined".

Finally.

[BDunnell]

For a long time in Ferrari's history, sports car racing was the top priority and Formula 1 took second place to that. Not to say they are going back to that route but Ferrari is not entirely F1.

I'm very glad someone, i.e. you, made this point. The idea that Ferrari is solely synonymous with F1 is quite a new one, and quite misguided.

Incidentally, was the high-profile presence of Domenicali and di Montezemelo at Le Mans this year perhaps of any significance?

[schmenke]

...Incidentally, was the high-profile presence of Domenicali and di Montezemelo at Le Mans this year perhaps of any significance?

Did Ferrari not have any entries in one of the GT series?

[BDunnell]

Did Ferrari not have any entries in one of the GT series?

Not works cars.

[Jag_Warrior]

The F1 image is associated with Ferrari more than Ferrari is associated with F1.

Tell someone F1 and most people will think about the red cars!
Tel someone about Ferrari and they will again think about red cars!

Enough said.

The gods must be getting nervous: I fully agree with Ioan on this. :p

The Ferrari brand relies less on F1 than F1 relies on Ferrari. That's why (IMO) Prince Albert said what he said.

I doubt there's an upper tier racing series in the world that wouldn't love to have a Ferrari factory backed team. Why do you think so many IRL fans were having wet dreams that Ferrari might come over here (and run Dallara/Hondas :rolleyes: )?

[ioan]

The gods must be getting nervous: I fully agree with Ioan on this. :p

It's OK as long as it doesn't become a habit! ;)

[schmenke]

Not works cars.

Ah, cheers.

[VkmSpouge]

Well Ferrari has always been more than F1 and F1 has always been more than Ferrari. Both would be worse off without each other but each would survive independently. Interesting to see Ferrari is worth more than Manchester United, I wonder does that estimated value include the road car side of the business?

[F1boat]

Well, maybe F1 is more than Ferrari, but it is not more than Ferrari, McLaren, Renault etc. Without these teams - it is Formula GP 3. Blunt, but correct. Sorry.

[Jag_Warrior]

Well Ferrari has always been more than F1 and F1 has always been more than Ferrari. Both would be worse off without each other but each would survive independently. Interesting to see Ferrari is worth more than Manchester United, I wonder does that estimated value include the road car side of the business?

Given that FIAT paid $800 million to buy back 29% of Ferrari in 2006, I'm sure this is just the value of the Formula One team.

[ioan]

Interesting to see Ferrari is worth more than Manchester United, I wonder does that estimated value include the road car side of the business?

It's only the Ferrari raceteam.
The value of the road car division is much more than that.

[ShiftingGears]

Incidentally, was the high-profile presence of Domenicali and di Montezemelo at Le Mans this year perhaps of any significance?

I think it was just an exercise in political games, just letting Max know they have alternatives besides F1.