Mosley to bravely fight to save us from thos evil F1 teams

[markabilly]

so it appears according to autosport, that mr. maXie must once again, rise to the challenge, take up shield and sword and continue the brave fight for truth, justice and the fia way.

"Over recent weeks it has become increasingly clear that one of the objectives of the dissident teams is that I should resign as president of the FIA. Last year you offered me your confidence and, as I wrote to you on May 16, 2008, it was my intention not to seek re-election in October this year....

However, in light of the attack on the mandate you have entrusted to me, I must now reflect on whether my original decision not to stand for re-election was indeed the right one.
"It is for the FIA membership, and the FIA membership alone, to decide on its democratically elected leadership, not the motor industry and still less the individuals the industry employs to run its Formula 1 teams."


"This is an attack on the FIA's right to regulate its Formula 1 World Championship but, worse, it is a wholly unjustified criticism of and direct challenge to the entire structure and purpose of the FIA,"

"No president of the FIA could allow this to go unanswered...we are also preparing legal proceedings in case these are needed to protect the FIA's rights in its Championship and to discourage any dissident Formula 1 team from engaging in illegal acts."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76485
say amen bros and sisters (and laywers), and pass the ammo....err money...

stay the course, lads......charge forth sainte devote..........drink the koolaid....

:beer:

[ioan]

Just wait until the EU Commission rolls over him with a tank.
There are laws and they are enforced nowadays in Europe, by people who will put this failed politician in their pocket.
Not to mention that the automotive manufacturers will lobby the EU Commission and Parliament to take measures against the little dictator.

""It is for the FIA membership, and the FIA membership alone, to decide on its democratically elected leadership, not the motor industry and still less the individuals the industry employs to run its Formula 1 teams."

Amen.

[AndyRAC]

In an ideal world, all of the teams/Manufacturers in Motorsport (not just F1) would come together to get rid/put pressure on Max to go. He is now an unmitigated disaster on the sporting regs side.
I could be generous and give credit for the safety measures he introduced...

[Big Ben]

In an ideal world, all of the teams/Manufacturers in Motorsport (not just F1) would come together to get rid/put pressure on Max to go. He is now an unmitigated disaster on the sporting regs side.
I could be generous and give credit for the safety measures he introduced...

You are generous indeed. I'm sure that would have happened no matter who had been the president of FIA. The cars are a lot safer now because they have the money and knowledge to build them that way...

[mstillhere]

In an ideal world, all of the teams/Manufacturers in Motorsport (not just F1) would come together to get rid/put pressure on Max to go. He is now an unmitigated disaster on the sporting regs side.
I could be generous and give credit for the safety measures he introduced...

Just out of curiosity, I would like to know WHO IS MOSLEY? What I mean by that is, who is he representing outside of the F1 world? The way he acts, it looks like he is some kind of supremo world leader whose decisions affect the whole world and cannot be discussed by anybody, when on the other hand we have companies whose decisons do impact the whole world every single minute of the day every day as we all know. I mean there is no comparison and there should not be any doubt on why the car manifacturers should play an important role when decisions concerning the rules are made in F1.

[ioan]

""It is for the FIA membership, and the FIA membership alone, to decide on its democratically elected leadership, not the motor industry and still less the individuals the industry employs to run its Formula 1 teams."

Amen.

I suppose that it's for the manufacturers and their board of directors alone to decide where to run their racing teams, not the FIA nor their dictator!

Amen!

[ioan]

Just out of curiosity, I would like to know WHO IS MOSLEY?

A failed British politician, who thinks he is the god of the automotive world!

[Big Ben]

If I were in his shoes after last year's scandal I would have run and lived in the woods. What does he do? Presents himself as the only human capable of saving f1 from the teams.

I find it interesting how he actually claims that teams don't want to reduce costs. Didn't he 'rhuined' them with his kers? They made them spend millions of dollars on a system that is absolutely worthless.

I know why he likes so much this budget caps idea. It's so simple. It doesn't really require to much thinking. It will be also a good alternative to the famous "bringing the sport into disrepute" article since I'm pretty sure most teams will find their ways to go around this budget caps and when Max will need to he'll spank them.

More impossible to police rules, more random sanctions, more scandals, more rule changes... please save us Max.

I suppose that it's for the manufacturers and their board of directors alone to decide where to run their racing teams, not the FIA nor their dictator!

Amen!

Indeed it is up to the board of directors where they race (so long as they haven't signed a contract to a specific series)....ask Honda.

If you seriously believe the manufacturers won't pack it all in at a minutes notice, then support FOTA.

Those who support FOTA just because they want to topple the FIA President...I ask this...Will it be fun watching Ferrari race Mclaren in a four car race in 2 years time?

A failed British politician, who thinks he is the god of the automotive world!

He wasn't a 'failed politician'. He never stood for election...it was his dad who had the dubious political career. Max was, and still is, a qualified lawyer. He was Bernie's lawyer.

[markabilly]

""It is for the FIA membership, and the FIA membership alone, to decide on its democratically elected leadership, not the motor industry and still less the individuals the industry employs to run its Formula 1 teams."

Amen.
if it were truly democratic, i would also add amen, but the last "vote" about him sticking around after his tribulations, showed that it ain't

[Big Ben]

Indeed it is up to the board of directors where they race....ask Honda.

If you seriously believe the manufacturers won't pack it all in at a minutes notice, then support FOTA.

Those who support FOTA just because they want to topple the FIA President...I ask this...Will it be fun watching Ferrari race Mclaren in a four car race in 2 years time?

I'm sure that's just what's going to happen.

[markabilly]

I suppose that it's for the manufacturers and their board of directors alone to decide where to run their racing teams, not the FIA nor their dictator!

Amen!
true by definition

unfortunately max is a machevillian master, and one major point in the prince, when in danger of losing authority, was how to create a crisis to keep authority, as in rally round the flag, boys--protect us all---worked good for stalin in ww2
another is to divide and conquer and sooner or later....i fear there will be a break in the ranks just like the last crisis of a threat of a breakway....
Remember how right I was back during the days of mac and the FIA?? esp. the penalty?

Sort of like the WWJD
(what would jesus do?) :eek:

All I was doing was asking myself what would ole machevillie do in max's spot? (and all you got to do is read up on the prince and you will know what he will do, before he does it)

Someone needs to burn his copy of the prince.... :s mokin:

[ioan]

Indeed it is up to the board of directors where they race (so long as they haven't signed a contract to a specific series)....ask Honda.

If you seriously believe the manufacturers won't pack it all in at a minutes notice, then support FOTA.

Those who support FOTA just because they want to topple the FIA President...I ask this...Will it be fun watching Ferrari race Mclaren in a four car race in 2 years time?

I need to point out that I have always supported Max until this mess.
I'm not with FOTA because the want to 'topple the FIA president', I'm with FOTA because what Max was trying to do, dictatorship, is against my principles.

Him trying to picture himself like the one to save F1 from those who actually are F1 is laughable, it's like a dictator who says he has to save a country from it's inhabitants.

[markabilly]

I need to point out that I have always supported Max until this mess.
.


Until this mess, I preffered max over bernie,

although with his episode of the whip, well i thought that was a horrible invasion of privacy, and still supported the old goat more than ever, and then he filed that lawsuit and sat there all pompous and stupid, acting like his cheating was just a simple hobby like any other, well that did it for me, and i have questioned his judgment since then, in getting up and acting the fool...

and now this holy s$#t of a mess, it seems that he really has lost it, although i suspicion it was his motive all along to create the mess, and act the hero, get re-elected, then work out a solution that makes him look the hero, and everybody lives happily ever after

That is my thought, applying the priniciples of the prince to the problem
REMEMBER you read it from me first!!! :D

i just wonder if he has miscalculated, and created some monster he can no longer control :eek:

[ioan]

true by definition

unfortunately max is a machevillian master, and one major point in the prince, when in danger of losing authority, was how to create a crisis to keep authority, as in rally round the flag, boys--protect us all---worked good for stalin in ww2
another is to divide and conquer and sooner or later....i fear there will be a break in the ranks just like the last crisis of a threat of a breakway....
Remember how right I was back during the days of mac and the FIA?? esp. the penalty?

Sort of like the WWJD
(what would jesus do?) :eek:

All I was doing was asking myself what would ole machevillie do in max's spot? (and all you got to do is read up on the prince and you will know what he will do, before he does it)

Someone needs to burn his copy of the prince.... :s mokin:

It all depends on who will get involved in this battle.
Given that Maxie managed to upset the manufacturers themselves and their boards of directors, who will undoubtedly start the lobbying machine in Brussels, Max might well find out that he finally did find the person he was looking for for years now, the one who will give him a good legal spanking.

[christophulus]

I need to point out that I have always supported Max until this mess.
I'm not with FOTA because the want to 'topple the FIA president', I'm with FOTA because what Max was trying to do, dictatorship, is against my principles.

Him trying to picture himself like the one to save F1 from those who actually are F1 is laughable, it's like a dictator who says he has to save a country from it's inhabitants.

I support his safety improvements, and the majority of his decisions up until a couple of years back were broadly sensible. Now though, he has to go. He's becoming more dictatorial - no wonder the teams are annoyed if he keeps tweaking the rules here and there.

It's a case of who blinks first now. From what information we have, FOTA seem more reasonable in the face of the 'evil' FIA, and fairly serious about this new series under their own rules.

Just step aside Max, this breakaway is only going to cause harm in the long run :(

[ArrowsFA1]

How is this "...an attack on the FIA's right to regulate its Formula 1 World Championship"? What is preventing them from continuing to do just that?

As for "a wholly unjustified criticism of and direct challenge to the entire structure and purpose of the FIA", I guess it depends whether you agree that what criticism there has been is justified or not, and how an organisation such as the FIA should respond to such criticism. Divisively or constructively?

"The catalyst for the current dispute was the FIA's attempts to reduce costs in Formula 1." Or was it the the nature of those "attempts" and the way they were imposed on participants?

[ClarkFan]

so it appears according to autosport, that mr. maXie must once again, rise to the challenge, take up shield and sword and continue the brave fight for truth, justice and the fia way.


If only he would take up his sword, then fall on it........ :rolleyes:

His statements are really starting to sound more like early stage Alzheimer's Disease than any kind of fiendishly clever plot.

ClarkFan

It all depends on who will get involved in this battle.
Given that Maxie managed to upset the manufacturers themselves and their boards of directors, who will undoubtedly start the lobbying machine in Brussels, Max might well find out that he finally did find the person he was looking for for years now, the one who will give him a good legal spanking.

Except that currently nearly all the major manufacturers are begging governments for handouts themselves, so are not in a position to lobby for much other than bail-out cash.

[schmenke]

Was it only a few short years ago that we were all moaning about the proliferation of factory teams into the sport? :mark:

And now, when Mosely tries to resist the influence of these teams in the sport's decision-making process, we vilify him :mark:

Was it only a few short years ago that we were all moaning about the proliferation of factory teams into the sport? :mark:

And now, when Mosely tries to resist the influence of these teams in the sport's decision-making process, we vilify him :mark:

Quite true.

[AndyL]

I know what you mean Schmenke. I still think it's a bad idea to let manufacturers have too much influence in motorsport. But in the last few years it seems like the one thing even worse than that, is to let Max Mosley have too much influence in motorsport. And the manufacturers are the only people with the clout to oppose him.

So personally I support the manufacturers in this one, but I hope that the actual outcome will not be a manufacturer-run series at all, rather F1 governed by the FIA without The Great Dictator at the helm.

[ioan]

Was it only a few short years ago that we were all moaning about the proliferation of factory teams into the sport? :mark:

And now, when Mosely tries to resist the influence of these teams in the sport's decision-making process, we vilify him :mark:

When did I moan against the factory teams?! :rolleyes:

[Jag_Warrior]

I suppose that it's for the manufacturers and their board of directors alone to decide where to run their racing teams, not the FIA nor their dictator!

Amen!

I second that Amen with a double Amen!

Spanky told them to go start their own series, and that's what they're doing. So what's he pissing & moaning about? Didn't those hookers teach him anything? If you ask one of them to whack your tail with a whip, she's going to whack your tail with a whip. Don't complain just because you didn't know how much it would hurt.

[UltimateDanGTR]

whatever you think of this situation, you've got to love the idea of Max mosley with a samuri sword fighting off Mario Theissen, Sefan Domenicalli, Flavio Briatore etc in a big massive F1-ultimate-fight-of-ultimate-destiny

personally i think the 2 (Max and the manurfactuers)need to be seperated as soon as possible-they cant agree on anything, they're both a set of wollies, they should each have their own motorsport and stay well away from each other.

having said that, I hope Max goes anyway.

[Malbec]

Its as I mentioned on another thread. Max NEEDS this constant conflict to stay in power especially since he has overstayed his welcome. He has to present himself as the only person standing between the FIA and total disaster. When he got caught with his pants down he told the FIA that there was a conspiracy to take over F1 by a shady investment group and that the NOTW expose was part of this conspiracy. Now he's telling the FIA that he's fighting to defend the FIA and F1 from the car manufacturers/FOTA. Get rid of Max and the FIA falls, thats always been the message.

Thats why he keeps creating conflict.

And thats also why he needs to go.

[schmenke]

When did I moan against the factory teams?! :rolleyes:

How on earth could you possibley infer from my post that I was referring to you specifically?

[mstillhere]

He wasn't a 'failed politician'. He never stood for election...it was his dad who had the dubious political career. Max was, and still is, a qualified lawyer. He was Bernie's lawyer.

So, it's even worse than what I thought :)

[Jag_Warrior]

So, it's even worse than what I thought :)

Yep! Pretty much. :dozey:

[ClarkFan]

I know what you mean Schmenke. I still think it's a bad idea to let manufacturers have too much influence in motorsport. But in the last few years it seems like the one thing even worse than that, is to let Max Mosley have too much influence in motorsport. And the manufacturers are the only people with the clout to oppose him.

So personally I support the manufacturers in this one, but I hope that the actual outcome will not be a manufacturer-run series at all, rather F1 governed by the FIA without The Great Dictator at the helm.

And while Mosley's capricious, 15-seconds-from-a-half-formed-idea-to-a-regulation style is financially difficult for manufacturer backed teams (Anyone want to buy a lightly used KERS system, cheap?), it would be financially lethal for small, independent teams. For smaller teams to compete, governance needs to be consistent and stable, with significant lead time to prepare for major rules changes.

I would also like to see most of the manufacturers retreat to making engines only (Ferrari excepted, just because they are, well, Ferrari). Given them an interesting engine specification to work on, like a fuel flow limit and see who wants to design for real efficiency. Then leave the chassis builders with simpler aero rules and a menu of engines to choose from.

But the manufacturers need some time to back in off the ledge gracefully. They have sunk a lot of money into this F1 thing, with past encouragement from Max and Bernie, and getting the back of the hand now has to be insulting. Give them a stretch with more manageable expenditures, let the big years run off financial spreadsheets, and they may be much more willing to talk about divesting the carbon fiber part of their operations.

ClarkFan

[ioan]

How on earth could you possibley infer from my post that I was referring to you specifically?



Was it only a few short years ago that we were all moaning...

Next time keep in mind that you are not all of us. :p :

[ioan]

He wasn't a 'failed politician'. He never stood for election...

You mean no party thought he was good enough for giving him a chance? In my books that is failed too.

PS:


Mosley was later an election agent for the Union Movement, supporting Walter Hesketh as parliamentary candidate for Moss Side in 1962.[21] The motor racing journalist Alan Henry describes him as one of his father's "right-hand men" at the time of a violent incident in 1962, in which Sir Oswald was knocked down by a mob in London and saved from serious injury by his son's intervention.[22][23] As a result of his involvement in this fracas, Mosley was arrested and charged with threatening behaviour. He was later cleared at Old Street Magistrates' Court on the grounds that he was trying to protect his father. In 1964, Mosley himself was a prospective UM candidate.

In the early 1980s, Mosley attempted a political career, working for the UK Conservative Party and hoping to become a parliamentary candidate. Bernie Ecclestone's biographer, Terry Lovell, writes that he gave up this aspiration after being unimpressed by "the calibre of senior party officials". He also felt his name would be a handicap and has since said "If I had a completely open choice in my life, I would have chosen party politics, but because of my name, that's impossible."

Looks like he failed in politics.

[schmenke]

Next time keep in mind that you are not all of us. :p :

What schmeke posted:

"Was it only a few short years ago that we were all moaning about the proliferation of factory teams into the sport?
And now, when Mosely tries to resist the influence of these teams in the sport's decision-making process, we vilify him"


What ioan read:

"Was it only a few short years ago that ioan was moaning about the proliferation of factory teams into the sport?
And now, when Mosely tries to resist the influence of these teams in the sport's decision-making process, ioan vilifies him"



:dozey:

[wmcot]

Was it only a few short years ago that we were all moaning about the proliferation of factory teams into the sport? :mark:

And now, when Mosely tries to resist the influence of these teams in the sport's decision-making process, we vilify him :mark:

Only because this time the FOTA teams are right and Mosely is losing his grip on reality. He has had the teams (ALL teams, not just manufacturer teams) going through hoops to keep up with his whimsical regulation changes from year to year.

I expect he has cost the teams more money than he would save them if they agreed to his budget cap!

While I support FOTA, I do see a time when even the new F1 under FOTA will be composed of mostly private teams. If FOTA does it right, these private teams will have a set of rules which are stable and allow the private teams to grow to be competitive with the manufacturer teams without spending a fortune re-designing their car every year.

[Big Ben]

Mosley fights against the evil influence of the manufacturers in f1 on one hand and sues them for leaving on the other hand. I don't look for coherence in what he does or says but this is really ridiculous. Not to mention that he actually suggested them they should organize their own championship.

[wmcot]

Mosley fights against the evil influence of the manufacturers in f1 on one hand and sues them for leaving on the other hand. I don't look for coherence in what he does or says but this is really ridiculous. Not to mention that he actually suggested them they should organize their own championship.

It's typical of Max. It's very much like him saying that we MUST cut costs and then adding, "by the way, next years' rules have all changed, you'll need to totally redesign your cars."

(Actually it just reminded me of the film "Nightmare Before Christmas" where Max could play the part of the two-faced mayor!) :)

[V12]

If Max is against the influence of manufacturers on principle, why didn't he complain between 2000-2002 when they all started flooding in and the financial picture was nice and rosy? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know. I've answered my own question there.

I'd like to think Max, like me, would rather see an F1 populated by dedicated racing teams, with manufacturers either going away or staying as engine suppliers.

However I fear that Max's real goal is standardisation and a spec series, in order to run the thing as cost-efficiently as possible and maximise profits. The manufacturers, who rightly don't want to "badge" spec equipment, who were once the big cash cow, are now the major obstacle to achieving his new goal, and he wants to remove them accordingly.

Max needs to come out and clarify his position, once and for all, on this before I would consider giving him my support. The FIA's press release on allowing innovation and technical freedom, with budget restrictions regarded as the "least worst" option to achieve this, was, at face value, agreeable.

BUT - given Max's murmurings over the past 12 months about standard engines, common parts, a "world engine", about how the "man in the street" doesn't care about the technical side of the sport and the sporting integrity, and what he's done with the F2 series, means I can trust him about as far as I can throw him (while strapped to a ball and chain)

[ioan]

What schmeke posted:

"Was it only a few short years ago that we were all moaning about the proliferation of factory teams into the sport?
And now, when Mosely tries to resist the influence of these teams in the sport's decision-making process, we vilify him"


What ioan read:

"Was it only a few short years ago that ioan was moaning about the proliferation of factory teams into the sport?
And now, when Mosely tries to resist the influence of these teams in the sport's decision-making process, ioan vilifies him"



:dozey:

You were wrong and you aren't man enough to take it on the chin! :D