Britain "most evil" In Iran

[Hondo]

Continuing our slide from top dog on the world stage, the Iranian Grand Poobah has annointed Britain as the "most evil" of the outside influences.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23709695-details/WORLD%3A+Iran%27s+Ayatollah+Ali+Khamenei+attacks+e vil+Britain/article.do

Congratulations guys! Enjoy the spotlight! Now you're gonna have eki kicking some Brit butt.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Oh boy, what will Mr. Steve Spackman think of this? Steve....you are the great Satan apparently now...you and all your Guinness drinking, meat pie eating and polite, reserved souls now are the problem that Iran wants to fix.....


These people in Iran are losing their grip as they realize the people below them really want them out....

[Daniel]

Oh boy, what will Mr. Steve Spackman think of this? Steve....you are the great Satan apparently now...you and all your Guinness drinking, meat pie eating and polite, reserved souls now are the problem that Iran wants to fix.....


These people in Iran are losing their grip as they realize the people below them really want them out....
Let's hope this is the beginning of change for Iran :)

[Hondo]

Let's hope this is the beginning of change for Iran :)

What change? Hating a better class of people? Iran will go the way of Iraq, on it's own. No invasion necessary.

Thats just the way they are.

[Malbec]

What change? Hating a better class of people? Iran will go the way of Iraq, on it's own. No invasion necessary.

Thats just the way they are.

Actually it won't. There'll be a compromise and the people will go home or there will be bloodshed and people will be forced home but the same people will stay in power.

The majority of people demonstrating in Iran don't want to overthrow the system, they want it reformed from the inside. Iranians have seen chaos already in 1979 and won't bring it on themselves again.

It doesn't surprise me that Khamenei has reserved his worst vitriol for Britain, it all comes down to perfidious Albion and the unimaginable reserves of behind-the-scenes power Iranians seem to think the British have on the international stage. They don't think Americans have the brains to pull the kind of conspiracy theory that Khamenei is alluding to.

[Hondo]

That's basically what I was saying. The Grand Poobah isn't going to relinquish any power so the only way the people are going to get their moderation will be to force it which will lead to non-stop internal strife with a side order of al-Qaeda thrown in.

[Hondo]

But, thats ok by me. Have at it.

[Malbec]

with a side order of al-Qaeda thrown in.

Al Qaeda is sunni and makes a point of killing Shias. If there's one thing that unites all Iranians its a hatred of Al Qaeda. I assume you mean that Al Qaeda will be used as a propaganda hate figure to unite all Iranians right?

[markabilly]

Oh boy, what will Mr. Steve Spackman think of this? Steve....you are the great Satan apparently now...you and all your Guinness drinking, meat pie eating and polite, reserved souls now are the problem that Iran wants to fix.....


These people in Iran are losing their grip as they realize the people below them really want them out....


se

Let them each drink a gallon of the good reverend Jimmie Jones, markabilly special, Kool Aid

Say Amen, brothers and sisters :beer:

[Hondo]

Actually, I meant any group of thugs, al-Qaeda or not, that seeks to profit with a "noble insurgency" in any unsettled conditions. Feel free to call them what you please. Except as a means to control, the religion used means little to those at the top of the food chain.

[Malbec]

Actually, I meant any group of thugs, al-Qaeda or not, that seeks to profit with a "noble insurgency" in any unsettled conditions. Feel free to call them what you please. Except as a means to control, the religion used means little to those at the top of the food chain.

There won't be the kind of chaos required for the kind of groups you refer to to thrive. Its simply not going to happen. My last post in the Iranian election thread explains why.

[Daniel]

What change? Hating a better class of people? Iran will go the way of Iraq, on it's own. No invasion necessary.

Thats just the way they are.
Iran is so obviously different to Iraq it's not funny :mark:

[steve_spackman]

Oh boy, what will Mr. Steve Spackman think of this? Steve....you are the great Satan apparently now...you and all your Guinness drinking, meat pie eating and polite, reserved souls now are the problem that Iran wants to fix.....

I am so saddened by these remarks which have come from Iran. My heart bleeds LOL

Oh by the way dont drink Guinness ;)

On a serious note. I am kinda hoping that change will come for Iran. Change as in what is good for the Iranian people!! But then we all have to come to terms with the fact, that us the western world cannot do it for them!!

[Hondo]

Iran is so obviously different to Iraq it's not funny :mark:

Unrest and thugs that exploit it are the same everywhere.

[Daniel]

Exactly...... Same eeeeeverywhere

[MrJan]

Unrest and thugs that exploit it are the same everywhere.

Makes I laugh considering that your country has been exploiting unrest all over the planet for many, many years :laugh:

[Drew]

Iran is so obviously different to Iraq it's not funny :mark:

Iran
Iraq

They look pretty similar to me :p :

[Hondo]

Makes I laugh considering that your country has been exploiting unrest all over the planet for many, many years :laugh:

I dismiss your post as nothing more than a member of the most evil influence trying to start an argument and spread discontent. Your weak Jedi mind tricks will not work on me, boy. I'm no Iranian.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Iran isn't Iraq. No one who knows the history of these two would say the two nations have any of the same issues or even relate to religion the same way. Iran is a very complex and much more advanced intellectually than its Arab neighbours. Which isn't to say the people actually running the country are intellectually complex....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Makes I laugh considering that your country has been exploiting unrest all over the planet for many, many years :laugh:

Jan..the Yanks don't always create the unrest tho. That is the difference. All the superpowers have done this, whether it be the Russians, Chinese, Indians or Yanks. It is what all nations would do if they could do it. Just look at Churchill using his power and influence in 1953 to depose the democratically elected leaders of Iran in 1953 to put the Shah on the throne because he was favourable to BP. One shouldn't throw stones in a glass house my friend...

[Hondo]

Iran isn't Iraq. No one who knows the history of these two would say the two nations have any of the same issues or even relate to religion the same way. Iran is a very complex and much more advanced intellectually than its Arab neighbours. Which isn't to say the people actually running the country are intellectually complex....

It has to do with the poor, stupid, and lazy wanting the same rewards and benefits as the financial classes above them, without the effort. If they can't have what the others have by gift, then taking away or restricting what they can have will be good enough. Doesn't matter what religion you are. Doesn't matter what race you are. Doesn't matter what nationality you are.

I don't know what the breakdown is, but I'll bet the majority, make that overwhelming majority of the Revolutionary Guards are from the poor and lower classes. This is the way these kind of people even the playing field. You may be the leader of the most powerful nation on the face of the earth but when it's one on one between you and some pissed kid with a rusty AKM, you're nobody. Your rule of law is meaningless. Your wealth, whether earned, inherited, or gained through shadier means, means nothing. The guy you used to shoo away, spit on and laugh at now decides whether you live or die based upon his whim. Thats heady stuff and Iranians enjoy it as much as any other nationality. They just need an excuse to apply it.

Too often people try to apply educated logic to people that have never had anything, see no prospect of gaining anything by a means that suits them, and have nothing to lose. This person does not think like you and fears life more than death.

[Eki]

Just look at Churchill using his power and influence in 1953 to depose the democratically elected leaders of Iran in 1953 to put the Shah on the throne because he was favourable to BP.
That could be the origin of Iranians considering the UK as "the most evil".

[Hondo]

With all of Iran's nonsense in the last year, I'm sure more than a few nations consider Iran "most evil".

[MrJan]

One shouldn't throw stones in a glass house my friend...

Which was my point entirely, Fiero makes a comment about thugs exploiting unrest when American politicians do exactly the same whenever the chance comes around. Just look at the apparent 'war on terror' post 9/11 which was just a thinly veiled excuse to attack the crap out of everything. The same could be said about Iraq and their supposed WMDs (a war in which Tony Blair and the English government were equally culpable of being involved in).

I don't believe that our government is whiter than whiter (I don't think many British people are actually that dim, but then millions watched a fat Scottish bint have a nervous breakdown on the telly so can't be too sure), just find that a few of the more outspoken members on this forum miss the irony boat every now and then :D

Oh and for the record, Churchill = cock

[Hondo]

Mark, I told you he was most evil.

[Malbec]

It has to do with the poor, stupid, and lazy wanting the same rewards and benefits as the financial classes above them, without the effort. If they can't have what the others have by gift, then taking away or restricting what they can have will be good enough. Doesn't matter what religion you are. Doesn't matter what race you are. Doesn't matter what nationality you are.

I don't know what the breakdown is, but I'll bet the majority, make that overwhelming majority of the Revolutionary Guards are from the poor and lower classes. This is the way these kind of people even the playing field. You may be the leader of the most powerful nation on the face of the earth but when it's one on one between you and some pissed kid with a rusty AKM, you're nobody. Your rule of law is meaningless. Your wealth, whether earned, inherited, or gained through shadier means, means nothing. The guy you used to shoo away, spit on and laugh at now decides whether you live or die based upon his whim. Thats heady stuff and Iranians enjoy it as much as any other nationality. They just need an excuse to apply it.

Too often people try to apply educated logic to people that have never had anything, see no prospect of gaining anything by a means that suits them, and have nothing to lose. This person does not think like you and fears life more than death.

Firstly as far as I'm aware all rank and file revolutionary guardsmen are conscripted and are allocated randomly to the RG as opposed to the army, navy or air force. I've spoken to ex-members from fairly affluent and well educated backgrounds, they didn't choose to be RG members but thats the way they were allocated. They weren't too happy either, the RG often gets the toughest jobs in Iran with the highest mortality rates like fighting Afghan and Turkish drug smugglers.

As for senior members, I don't know about their wealth but idealogically they tend to be religious (obviously) but many believe fervently that Iran should be Islamic and a Republic in equal parts. One of their ex-leaders also ran for President and he's just as pissed that the election was rigged even though he knew he had no chance of winning. I think there'd be plenty of RG who are not happy that the election was rigged. If the unrest spreads and the riot police have to back down in favour of the RG we might see some real infighting in the RG.

The thugs I think you're referring to are the Basij, supposedly religious militia but really poor kids given an excuse and money to beat up wealthy middle class Iranian kids. These guys are the real scum but if the tide turns against them they'll run away to mummy.

BTW I'm confused with your post, it seems like you're suggesting that its the poor that are rising up. It isn't, the rural poor are the ones who support Ahmadinejad and are quite happy with the election result, its the wealthy that are revolting.

[Malbec]

That could be the origin of Iranians considering the UK as "the most evil".

Actually the coup in 1953 was a UK/US joint effort, the Iranians believe the UK has been manipulating things in Iran to their benefit from the 18th century onwards.

[Hondo]

The Poobah is on the Brits again.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6548540.ece

[Hondo]

Thugs as in largely people from outside the country, similar to how few of the insurgents in Iraq, are Iraqi.

[Malbec]

Thugs as in largely people from outside the country, similar to how few of the insurgents in Iraq, are Iraqi.

Non-Iranians? Are you serious? All Iranians don't like outsiders meddling in their affairs wherever they come from and whatever agenda they have, which is why Obama and Brown are wisely not making any big statements regarding the demonstrations.

As stated before Iran is not Iraq, it is a largely monoethnic population with a strong national identity and one dominant religion. It is distinct from all its neighbours who the Iranians treat with disdain and not a little pity. It is not splintered like Iraq. It might be worth studying Iran in a little more depth....

This is a good article about the problems with taking a simple view of Iran:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/21/peter-beaumont-iran-crisis-ahmadinejad

[Mark in Oshawa]

Iran is a lot of things, and I think many of us in the west have failed to grasp this. It maybe Islamic, but it isn't Arab, and often is at odds with the Arabs. It isn't anti-American, at least by the people on the street for the most part, in the same way some Islamic nations are either.

It is also apparently a lot more democratically than many gave it credit for being.

This last month of this election and the aftermath have been eye-openers I think for a lot of people.

Obama is handling this right IMO..as is Brown. Let the Iranians sort this out....I think they may not always trust the UK or the US in Iran, but the hatred isn't there the way many think it is. That said, saying anything could be used in the wrong way, so Brown and Obama are being very couched in how they are admiring the bravery of the people in the streets and leaving it at that. The Mullahs want to use something the US or UK say and they are not getting it....