Breakaway series is go! [Archive] - Page 2

CNR

23rd June 2009, 05:47

this is getting too weird
Melbourne not mentioned on leaked schedule for breakaway F1 series

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25677887-661,00.html

AN alleged blueprint for a breakaway Formula One race schedule has been leaked to the media, and Melbourne is nowhere to be seen.
The unverified list for the 2010 series - dubbed the 'New Formula' - lists Adelaide as the main race track option in Australia and Surfers Paradise as a reserve track.

There is no mention of Melbourne, which currently hosts the F1 championship race at Albert Park.

According to the calendar, the rebel championship (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25662116-11088,00.html) proposed by eight of the 10 Formula One teams, including Ferrari, would start the season in Buenos Aires and end in November at Adelaide, goldcoast.com.au reports.
(http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2009/06/23/91395_gold-coast-news.html)
However, the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport (http://www.cams.com.au/) and industry experts have cast doubt on the veracity of the document, which is believed to have been leaked to a German journalist.

tintop

23rd June 2009, 06:30

Once you get max on the run like this, you never concede. If there is an agreement struck, he wont be party to it. The budget constraints were an bald-faced attempt at re-balancing the power structure beyond anything tenable for the many's.

wmcot

23rd June 2009, 08:00

this is getting too weird
Melbourne not mentioned on leaked schedule for breakaway F1 series

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25677887-661,00.html

Probably "leaked" by Max!

Knock-on

23rd June 2009, 09:49

this is getting too weird
Melbourne not mentioned on leaked schedule for breakaway F1 series

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25677887-661,00.html

Old news. Melbourne has an exclusive contract with FOM so couldn't hold a rival race.

Daniel

23rd June 2009, 10:00

this is getting too weird
Melbourne not mentioned on leaked schedule for breakaway F1 series

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25677887-661,00.html
What's weird about that?

AndyRAC

23rd June 2009, 11:04

Tomorrows WMSC meeting could be 'fun'. Personally, Max needs to go - his decisions in all of Motorsport have ruined them. Unfortunately, I think he'll stand for re-election in October.

Ranger

23rd June 2009, 11:56

Looks like he's managed to make lots of personal enemies with is stupid comments:

But Flavio would and does say anything for a soundbite.

Example:

Flavio: "I'm too much of a gentleman to make personal insults (like Max)"

Two weeks ago:

Flavio: "Adam Parr is an idiot"

Case in point.

SGWilko

23rd June 2009, 12:28

The more I think about it, the more I think a breakaway series is a bad idea. The BBC here in the UK have the rights to F1 for the next 3 years or so, and I can't see them paying another huge sum to cover a FOTA series on top of that. It would end up being sold to Sky Sports which would limit the viewers considerably, and would drive up costs at the GP's for the fans. Race tickets are already hugely overpriced.. Sure you would have the teams we want to see, but will that be at the cost of quality venues, coverage and higher spectating prices??

Tickets are overpriced for one reason only - his name is Bernie.

Cost of quality venues? What?! USA - gone, Canada - Gone, France - Gone, UK - going, Portugal - Gone..... see the reccuring theme?

Only one man to blame for that.

Team spend fortunes for ever changing rules - whos at fault? Max.

A breakaway is very appealing.

N. Jones

23rd June 2009, 12:32

I was wondering about that too - since SpeedTV in the US carries F1, would they really carry the break away series too?

I also still do not know where this breakaway series races, does all of the current tracks have exclusive agreements with FOM, or can they host whatever they want?

Some of the hurdles to a new series seem a little high to me...

N. Jones

23rd June 2009, 12:38

Also, how do they go about putting together a series so that it starts... when, March, April? That's in none-ten months.

How to they get venues, rules and regulations, track marshals, medical staff, TV, I guess they already have the logistics for moving around the world.
It seems a daunting task and one that they may be forced to rush together.

I see FOTA's point and this is their one great bargaining chip but can they put a watchable series together in less than a year??

ioan

23rd June 2009, 12:45

this is getting too weird
Melbourne not mentioned on leaked schedule for breakaway F1 series

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25677887-661,00.html

I don't see what your problem is, they are not going to race on all the tracks as Max's formula will race.

Adelaide will be as good as Melbourne is.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 12:47

But Flavio would and does say anything for a soundbite.

Example:

Flavio: "I'm too much of a gentleman to make personal insults (like Max)"

Two weeks ago:

Flavio: "Adam Parr is an idiot"

Case in point.

The difference being that Mosley insulted the whole FOTA people while Flav said something about a Williams guy who isn't even the team boss. And I happen to agree with Flav.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 12:48

The more I think about it, the more I think a breakaway series is a bad idea. The BBC here in the UK have the rights to F1 for the next 3 years or so, and I can't see them paying another huge sum to cover a FOTA series on top of that. It would end up being sold to Sky Sports which would limit the viewers considerably, and would drive up costs at the GP's for the fans. Race tickets are already hugely overpriced.. Sure you would have the teams we want to see, but will that be at the cost of quality venues, coverage and higher spectating prices??

Stop whining FGS.
FOTA will only give the TV right to a broadcaster that will make it FTA, so either they will give it for free to ITV or Sky Sports will have to make it FTA.

Knock-on

23rd June 2009, 12:49

I don't see a problem getting a series going. All the Marshalling etc is sorted by the tracks. All you needs to do is speak with them and get a timetable together. This isn't the first race series to be setup is it?

Agreeing the regulations may be a bit more long winded but with agreement from all parties, could be done.

The big problem is the commercial running of the series because if Flav heads it, I am worried and I think Bernie would be much better. I know people hate him but he's got the experience, can manage a series and would be close to invaluable.

Knock-on

23rd June 2009, 12:52

Stop whining FGS.
FOTA will only give the TV right to a broadcaster that will make it FTA, so either they will give it for free to ITV or Sky Sports will have to make it FTA.

That is a manifesto pledge. They might for the first year but then it would be back to normal.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 12:54

I also still do not know where this breakaway series races, does all of the current tracks have exclusive agreements with FOM, or can they host whatever they want?

Some of the hurdles to a new series seem a little high to me...

Maybe I'll have to post it another hundred times before it sinks in:

All the current European F1 tracks are free to host any racing series they want! Thank you EU Commission for making this possible! :)

There are no FOM contracted North American tracks, so all of them can host an F1 race!

The only contracted South American track is the current Brazilian GP venue, the rest of them are all free. There are enough choices left in Brazil and Argentina and Mexico!

Fuji won't be in F1 next season anymore, so they can race there, but if not Aida is free in Japan anyway!

Adelaide will probably host the Oz race!

Looks like there is no problem getting enough races in the FOTA calendar!

What was the problem again?!

CNR

23rd June 2009, 12:54

What's weird about that?
how albert park race track can have both racing on the track

ioan

23rd June 2009, 12:57

How to they get venues, rules and regulations, track marshals, medical staff, TV, I guess they already have the logistics for moving around the world.
It seems a daunting task and one that they may be forced to rush together.

How much do you think it takes to put all that together for a well funded management team?!

3 to 6 months maximum. They don't need to build new tracks, they just have to sign the contracts!
They do not need to open new TV stations, just sign contracts!
They don't need to train new race marshals just to sign the ones that already exist!

There is nothing that can't be done with a bit of good will and the money the manufacturers have!

ioan

23rd June 2009, 12:57

how albert park race track can have both racing on the track

Not sure I understand, is Abert Park both in Melbourne and Adelaide?!

ioan

23rd June 2009, 12:59

That is a manifesto pledge. They might for the first year but then it would be back to normal.

Sure, but the first year is where they need to make a difference and kick the Maxie formula into oblivion.

Also they promise to cut the prices for tracks, TV broadcasters and fans to 40% of what they are now!

Sounds promising to me.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:00

I wasn't whining mate, just airing my thoughts that I thought were valid...

Sorry, it did sound like a bit of whining to me. My apologies if it wasn't.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:01

Agreeing the regulations may be a bit more long winded but with agreement from all parties, could be done.

I think they are going to keep the 2009 regulations for some time in order to have some real cost cutting for once.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:03

The only problem I can see is the fact that the majority of F1 fans are based in Europe as a core figure. You may get good races in these venues but with poor turn-outs in the US combined with races at lonely tracks in South America, I think it will be harder to achieve the quality we are used to.. I was personally pleased to see the back of Fuji and Indy so that would not appeal to me one bit.

Allow me to quote myself from the very post you were answering:

All the current European F1 tracks are free to host any racing series they want!

They need to have races outside of Europe too, because the series needs to be a world series in order to properly rival the maxie formula, and to give them a chance to crush it properly.
And ofcourse they are willing to get a world wide exposure for the involved manufacturers!

And even more important, there are at least as many fans outside of Europe as there are in Europe.

Knock-on

23rd June 2009, 13:05

Maybe I'll have to post it another hundred times before it sinks in:

All the current European F1 tracks are free to host any racing series they want! Thank you EU Commission for making this possible! :)

I think you will have to continue posting then because I'm not sure you are correct.

If I was Bernie, I would give a contract that stipulated they wouldn't run a direct competitor series.

As there wasn't one, it's a no brainer to sign but if it were me, I would have that clause in to protect myself from this scenario.

It's got nothing to do with the EU.

Mark

23rd June 2009, 13:08

I think that leaked schedule is just made up by some random person. It seems to change depending on what site you look at.

Having said that it does make some sense, apart from having two races in Australia?

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:11

I think you will have to continue posting then because I'm not sure you are correct.

If I was Bernie, I would give a contract that stipulated they wouldn't run a direct competitor series.

As there wasn't one, it's a no brainer to sign but if it were me, I would have that clause in to protect myself from this scenario.

It's got nothing to do with the EU.

That's exactly what Bernie tried but, a couple of years ago there was a little problem with an American series wishing to run on a European tack and being hurt by Bernie's exclusivity contracts. So they turned to the EU Commission who swiftly ruled that Bernie's contracts are illegal under the European laws and they asked him to amend all his contracts with EU based tracks, which he swiftly did because he was not going to pay billions in fines.

PS: You can try having such clauses if you wish, but be advised you will have to empty your bank account once they get to you. Microsoft and Intel already experienced it on their own back.

Mark

23rd June 2009, 13:14

Ioan is right. You can put whatever you like in contracts; but if that particular clause is against the law it means absolutely nothing!

Knock-on

23rd June 2009, 13:19

I would be interested to see a link there ioan.

As for MS and Intel, theirs was slightly different. Both companies were guilty of anti-competition practices in a free market.

There is no monopoly in a race series awarding a track a contract to run an event for xxx years as long as they don't run a series that would jepodise the arrangement. I have a national agreement in the UK with a global email archiving company that says they will not appoint another reseller for a set period. This is similar to what we are discussing and perfectly legal.

Knock-on

23rd June 2009, 13:19

Ioan is right. You can put whatever you like in contracts; but if that particular clause is against the law it means absolutely nothing!

I don't think it is and would like to see this link.

markabilly

23rd June 2009, 13:20

That's exactly what Bernie tried but, a couple of years ago there was a little problem with an American series wishing to run on a European tack and being hurt by Bernie's exclusivity contracts. So they turned to the EU Commission who swiftly ruled that Bernie's contracts are illegal under the European laws and they asked him to amend all his contracts with EU based tracks, which he swiftly did because he was not going to pay billions in fines.

PS: You can try having such clauses if you wish, but be advised you will have to empty your bank account once they get to you. Microsoft and Intel already experienced it on their own back.

and is just another reason the little beggar crawled to china and other such places

AndyL

23rd June 2009, 13:20

If I was Bernie, I would give a contract that stipulated they wouldn't run a direct competitor series.

As there wasn't one, it's a no brainer to sign but if it were me, I would have that clause in to protect myself from this scenario.

It's really speculation whether such a condition exists. Since no direct competitor existed, would Bernie have even asked for such a condition? As someone else said recently, hindsight is a wonderful thing :)
But even if true, it's not a showstopper for FOTA as there are plenty of good tracks that are either not in a contract with FOM, or will soon be out of contract.

Ioan is right. You can put whatever you like in contracts; but if that particular clause is against the law it means absolutely nothing!

If a contract requires you to do something that is against the law then it's unenforceable. But it's not against the law to decline to host a particular motor race.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:22

If thats correct then great!!

Here:

Following discussions with Competition Commissioner Mario Monti, the FIA agreed to modify its rules to bring them into line with EU law. After consulting interested third parties and the Member States, the Commission is now ready to close the file. The modifications introduced by FIA will ensure that :

* The role of FIA will be limited to that of a sports regulator, with no commercial conflicts of interest]removing restrictions in circuit contracts about the hosting of other motor sports events[/b].

Aside from the Commission's concern to ensure that FIA's role is limited to that of sports regulator, the Commission has also taken into account the effect that valuable TV sports rights can have on national broadcasting markets. To this end, FOA agreed to modify the current agreements and offered certain commitments for their future conduct. In particular, broadcasters in the various countries will be invited to tender for the TV rights on the expiry of the current (and any future) contracts.

The parties have also agreed to reduce the length of new free to air broadcasting contracts to a maximum of three years (except for contracts where specific investments justify a length of up to five years).

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/1523&format=HTML&aged=1&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

The Commission is satisfied that the conflict of interests identified in the FIA regulations and the restrictions that had been put on circuit owners, F1 teams and TV broadcasters have been ended. This assessment comes after a period of monitoring compliance of the settlement reached in October 2001 with international motor racing body FIA and the Formula One companies. FIA's role is now limited to that of a sports regulator. Circuit owners can, if they wish, organise rival championships and [/u]car manufacturers will in the future be able to participate in races other than those organised by the Formula One company[/u]. Television contracts have also been significantly shortened, which allows broadcasters to bid for coverage of this popular sport at regular intervals.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/03/1491&format=HTML&aged=1&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:23

I would be interested to see a link there ioan.

Here:

http://forums.motorsport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=652181&postcount=287

Good enough?! ;)

Mark

23rd June 2009, 13:24

It's really speculation whether such a condition exists. Since no direct competitor existed, would Bernie have even asked for such a condition? As someone else said recently, hindsight is a wonderful thing :)

Well for a long time a competitor did exist in the form of CART/IndyCar. So I wouldn't be surprised if such a stipulation was in there, if only to protect against them, not a breakaway series.

But even if true, it's not a showstopper for FOTA as there are plenty of good tracks that are either not in a contract with FOM, or will soon be out of contract.

Quite so. The steady drift away from the traditional tracks has left many venues up for grabs.

If a contract requires you to do something that is against the law then it's unenforceable. But it's not against the law to decline to host a particular motor race.

That's up to the tracks of course. And if they want to run both they can. However I think neither FOTA or the FIA would want a situation where both series run on the same track and the comparisons that would result in.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:27

and is just another reason the little beggar crawled to china and other such places

Don't underestimate the EU Commissions power, nor the people who work there!

As long as CVC/FOA/FOM are EU based there might be some surprises coming for Bernie and Max.

Daniel

23rd June 2009, 13:29

how albert park race track can have both racing on the track

How's about the Eastern states stop being greedy and let the better tracks/venues have sporting events :)

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:30

That's up to the tracks of course. And if they want to run both they can. However I think neither FOTA or the FIA would want a situation where both series run on the same track and the comparisons that would result in.

I disagree the FOTA will want to crush the maxie series on exactly the same tracks by running a couple of weeks exactly there, with cheaper tickets + well known teams and drivers on the offer.

Who will turn up at a track for 100 Euros to watch Manor racing when they just witnessed the best teams and drivers 2 weeks before for half that much!

ShiftingGears

23rd June 2009, 13:37

How's about the Eastern states stop being greedy and let the better tracks/venues have sporting events :)

Are you implying that the Western States have better tracks and venues?

ioan

23rd June 2009, 13:39

Are you implying that the Western States have better tracks and venues?

I think he was saying exactly the opposite.

CNR

23rd June 2009, 14:11

Not sure I understand, is Abert Park both in Melbourne and Adelaide?!

Melbourne phillip island has motogp world superbikes f1 and now they are complaining about not getting chosen for the breakaway series.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 14:13

Melbourne phillip island has motogp world superbikes f1 and now they are complaining about not getting chosen for the breakaway series.

I see. It's up to them to convince the breakaway series that they are the better place to be. But Is Philip Island at F1 levels, or are they going to be next year?

I am evil Homer

23rd June 2009, 14:20

Don't underestimate the EU Commissions power, nor the people who work there!

As long as CVC/FOA/FOM are EU based there might be some surprises coming for Bernie and Max.

I think this is crucial....they have to comply with EU law and could well be in trouble over this!!!

Knock-on

23rd June 2009, 15:14

Here:

http://forums.motorsport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=652181&postcount=287

Good enough?! ;)

Blimey ioan. This is a real red letter day.

I think this is the first time you have actually been right and provided evidence to support your stance.

I'm shocked, stunned, speechless in fact.

I need a little lay down. Please excuse me, I feel faint.....

ioan

23rd June 2009, 15:17

Blimey ioan. This is a real red letter day.

I think this is the first time you have actually been right and provided evidence to support your stance.

I'm shocked, stunned, speechless in fact.

I need a little lay down. Please excuse me, I feel faint.....

Well, while you are at it, you could also acknowledge that I was right in the KERS thread too, about the position of the Ferrari KERS system, now that there is plenty of material around! :p :

Knock-on

23rd June 2009, 15:23

Well, while you are at it, you could also acknowledge that I was right in the KERS thread too, about the position of the Ferrari KERS system, now that there is plenty of material around! :p :

I never said you were wrong. Only that I would be surprised as to me the logical place would be at the transmission rather than the engine.

However, if you have definitive proof now of the layout of the Ferrari KERS system then I'm more than happy to conceed you are right that it's mounted to the engine.

Bluepring or photo should do. Not some Journo article with their best guess.

markabilly

23rd June 2009, 15:27

I just want two races in the usa--somewhere like Indy for the masses

and then seca for me...if i live long enough to see a f1 ferrari, mac, et all swopping down from the top, trying to beat it out of the decreasing radius last corner at the bottom, then I will have lived

(must say, in an effort to make the corkscrew "better", they really removed a major part of the challenge, plus where they moved and put that stupid bridge and moved back the fence, destroyed my favorite viewing spot :mad: :mad: :mad:

It was quite the challenge and still is--their is only one other corner like it to my knowledge with its kind of ambience, eua rouge, and even it has been shaved down---may be others, but i just do not have enough knwoledge to comment)

The old corkscrew, well let me tell you, about half way down, it was very tempting to get on the gas, after all dropping downhill at a very steep rate, also adds speed, but the final curve went from cambered inside to off camber, plus it was a sharply deceasing radius at the end, and was still going downhill--with a wal on the outside from where the hill had been cut back, but not too far...

loved to watch and one could even feel the fear as a rider or driver suddenly realized that extra speed was now about to put him in the wall--funny, how with rossi his first two races there, you could see him at the top, turn to go down and then hit the brakes hard, for really no reason right there, then go down to that last corner of the screw and hit the brakes hard again---and he was always getting passed there about half way down by canadian and us riders who had gotten more use to it..

With the changes and several years of expreience, last year, Rossi was the one doing the passing...

As rossi said that area of the track was not even safe to walk on, let alone race....
oh well,

ioan

23rd June 2009, 15:46

I never said you were wrong. Only that I would be surprised as to me the logical place would be at the transmission rather than the engine.

However, if you have definitive proof now of the layout of the Ferrari KERS system then I'm more than happy to conceed you are right that it's mounted to the engine.

Bluepring or photo should do. Not some Journo article with their best guess.

You'll have to accept what it's in the open, I didn't manage to bribe any Ferrari insider to send me their 780 pages of technical documentation! ;)

Tazio

23rd June 2009, 18:32

Purposely I'm Sure ;)

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/23062009/58/f1-breakaway-schedule-leaked.html

Provisional FOTA 2010 schedule:

March 3 - Buenos Aires, Argentina - Last hosted F1 in 1998

March21 - Mexico City, Mexico - Last hosted F1 in 1992

April 11 - Jerez, Spain - Last hosted F1 in 1997

April 25 - Portimao, Portugal - Never hosted F1

May 2 - Imola, San Marino - Last hosted F1 in 2006

May23 - Monte Carlo, Monaco - Current F1 host

June 6 - Montreal, Canada - Last hosted F1 in 2008

June 13 - Indianapolis, United States - Last hosted F1 in 2007

July 1 - Silverstone, United Kingdom - Current F1 host

July 25 - Magny-Cours, France - Last hosted F1 in 2008

August 15 - Laustizring, Germany - Never hosted F1

August 29 - Helsinki, Finland - Never hosted F1

September 12 - Monza, Italy - Current F1 host

September 26 - Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates - Current F1 host

October 10 - Marina Bay, Singapore - Current F1 host

October 24 - Suzuka, Japan - Last hosted F1 in 2006

November 8 - Adelaide or Surfers' Paradise, Australia - Last hosted F1 in 1995/Never hosted F1

emporer_k

23rd June 2009, 18:51

Purposely I'm Sure ;)

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/23062009/58/f1-breakaway-schedule-leaked.html

Provisional FOTA 2010 schedule:

March 3 - Buenos Aires, Argentina - Last hosted F1 in 1998

July 1 - Silverstone, United Kingdom - Current F1 host

November 8 - Adelaide or Surfers' Paradise, Australia - Last hosted F1 in 1995/Never hosted F1

Thise dates are a wednesday, thursday and monday !

Daniel

23rd June 2009, 18:58

Thise dates are a wednesday, thursday and monday !
Add a 1 onto those dates and they make more sense? Pure speculation of course :)

schmenke

23rd June 2009, 19:23

Is there a venue in Finland that is even close to being capable of hosting an F1 evevnt? :s

ioan

23rd June 2009, 21:21

Is there a venue in Finland that is even close to being capable of hosting an F1 evevnt? :s

Are there enough inhabitants to fill the grandstands and make it commercially viable?! :p :

CNR

23rd June 2009, 23:28

Purposely I'm Sure ;)

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/23062009/58/f1-breakaway-schedule-leaked.html

March 3 - Buenos Aires, Argentina - Last hosted F1 in 1998

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090622180229.shtml

Potential organisers of a future Argentine FIA Formula One Grand Prix must build a new circuit, according to F1 Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone.

ioan

23rd June 2009, 23:31

That's just Bernie running his mouth, there are several good tracks in Argentina.

Tazio

24th June 2009, 00:01

Originally Quoted by Thunderbolt
Potential organisers of a future Argentine FIA Formula One Grand Prix must build a new circuit, according to F1 Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...22180229.shtml
Although this is looking like a completely fabricated leak.
It's my hope that if FOTA break away they "bust Bernie’s balls" as well, thus making his opinion rather useless.
As for Haug, if FOTA breaks away, I believe Mercedes will follow. His voice is just one of many.
I'm sure, like all responsible affiliates the TV deal will be much more important than the facilities stature, and capacity.
There are 9 mos. until this projected starting date. Plenty of time to get the paddock in shape for machinery, and supplies.

.

Tumbo

24th June 2009, 01:25

Thise dates are a wednesday, thursday and monday !

I was under the impression that the 8th of Nov was Sunday this yr? :p

markabilly

24th June 2009, 02:07

I was under the impression that the 8th of Nov was Sunday this yr? :p
but not next year............

wmcot

24th June 2009, 08:17

Just look at their merchandise, for example at Silverstone a Kimi hat was £45-£80 (depending on logo) and a Jenson Hat was £25!! The teams are also very guilty of ripping the fans off so I don't think prices will be anymore rosey in the breakaway series...

Don't forget that a big chunk of those prices goes into Bernie's pockets!

As for tickets, FOTA would be stupid to NOT lower the rates. Why would they wnat half-sold events like Turkey. Ticket prices and fan access have been one of their proposed priorities from the beginning.

wmcot

24th June 2009, 08:21