NASCAR drivers on road courses??

[steve_spackman]

Just curious as to how well NASCAR drivers do on road courses?

[Lee Roy]

Just curious as to how well NASCAR drivers do on road courses?

Well enough to win. ;)

[Sparky1329]

A lot of them have been fairly successful at outracing the road course "ringers" on a consistent basis.

Did I mention how much I love the road course races? :D

[Lee Roy]

A lot of them have been fairly successful at outracing the road course "ringers" on a consistent basis.


When NASCAR started going to Riverside in the 1960's, Dan Gurney and/or Parnelli Jones used to show up every year and take the win. The last time an non-regular, road course "ringer" showed up and won a NASCAR Cup race on a road course was Mark Donohue in 1973 (I think it was '73, I can't access my references right now).

That was the last time that the NASCAR Cup regulars lost to a "ringer" until Juan Pablo Montoya won at Infeneon a couple of years ago in his rookie year, (that is, if you wanted to consider Montoya a "ringer").

There have been instances of "ringers" winning in the Nationwide series. Ron Fellows won several Nationwide races at the Glen.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Im very interested to see Nascar on a road course.

I've only been interested in NASCAR for a few months, but already loving it. and as my first road course watching experience, I hope it will be good-like a bigger bulkier version of BTCC, but hopefully funnier.

Im cheering on Montoya this weekend as an F1 fan I want a former F1 driver how good F1 drivers are.

[jeffmr2]

Im very interested to see Nascar on a road course.

I've only been interested in NASCAR for a few months, but already loving it. and as my first road course watching experience, I hope it will be good-like a bigger bulkier version of BTCC, but hopefully funnier.

Im cheering on Montoya this weekend as an F1 fan I want a former F1 driver how good F1 drivers are.

The racing is great the cars as always look so good but the full course cautions are very annoying as you'll see.Nascar dont understand the concept of locailised yellows which is a shame.

[Sparky1329]

When NASCAR started going to Riverside in the 1960's, Dan Gurney and/or Parnelli Jones used to show up every year and take the win. The last time an non-regular, road course "ringer" showed up and won a NASCAR Cup race on a road course was Mark Donohue in 1973 (I think it was '73, I can't access my references right now).

That was the last time that the NASCAR Cup regulars lost to a "ringer" until Juan Pablo Montoya won at Infeneon a couple of years ago in his rookie year, (that is, if you wanted to consider Montoya a "ringer").

There have been instances of "ringers" winning in the Nationwide series. Ron Fellows won several Nationwide races at the Glen.

I don't really consider JPM a ringer since he's a series regular. I know Fellows won in what was the Busch series. Pruett gets mighty close sometimes but Fellows and Boris haven't been much of a factor more recently.

[table]

Love the road course races. Was at Sonoma a few years ago at the top of turn 2 and it was funny to see Tony's car go by successivly more and more dented in as the race went on. I think a crazed version of BTC is a good comparison.

[harvick#1]

I don't really consider JPM a ringer since he's a series regular. I know Fellows won in what was the Busch series. Pruett gets mighty close sometimes but Fellows and Boris haven't been much of a factor more recently.

I believe if they were in top equipment they would be very strong. if wasn't the cars that normally killed their chances, it was the crews. Pruett may had the only best shot because he was with Ganassi. but Robby has great road course cars but his crew dooms him everytime

[muggle not]

Hey, I'm a fan of Robby, Boris, Fellows, (but not Pruett) and many others from the road racing group. However, I think that Jeff Gordon and Tony would be the favorites in any Nascar road race. They have as much road racing talent as the others. Rusty was pretty good also.

[steve_spackman]

Im very interested to see Nascar on a road course.

I've only been interested in NASCAR for a few months, but already loving it. and as my first road course watching experience, I hope it will be good-like a bigger bulkier version of BTCC, but hopefully funnier.

Im cheering on Montoya this weekend as an F1 fan I want a former F1 driver how good F1 drivers are.

Want a bigger bulkier version of BTCC? Im sure the V8 Supercars could give you that fix better than NASCAR can!!

I caught a view of a road course with the NASCAR boys and was amused as to how frigid a few of them were on the corners. Well if your used to going round in circles them im sure it can be a bit daunting

[Mark in Oshawa]

Want a bigger bulkier version of BTCC? Im sure the V8 Supercars could give you that fix better than NASCAR can!!

I caught a view of a road course with the NASCAR boys and was amused as to how frigid a few of them were on the corners. Well if your used to going round in circles them im sure it can be a bit daunting


Steve, the boys of Sprint Cup can do JUST fine on the road course. The cars are not really good at road course runs with their tiny tires vs their weight. You watch the V8 Supercars from Australia, you see cars the same size with less power, less weight and MORE tire, and they look at home. These cars have the smallest contact patch per lb. in racing.

As for the "ringers", they are very simply playing with a handicap most of the time. Ron Fellows said it best a few years back when he says what kills him is he can outdrive most of these guys on road courses (Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Mark Martin and Kyle Busch would likely be the 4 he wouldn't think he could beat EVERY time) but the "ringers" don't have the best teams in that they have lower cars in the points; or they are on extra teams with part time crews. You suffer on pit road and you suffer in setting the car up, because the ringers also don't know the cars and what they can get out of the setup in the limited time they have behind the wheel. Ron in the same car with the same amount of testing would give any of these guys a go, as would Boris or Pruett.

JPM, Scott Speed, Carpentier, and The Dinger will have the upper hand because they have more seat time in the COT. Heck, JPM proved he can win in these cars at Sonoma two years ago, but you notice he didn't win another.

The ringers, if they were in a full time quality ride (put a ringer in Jeff Gordon's 24 or Carl's 99) with some testing would likely be in consideration win. The thing is, NASCAR is so tight competition wise now, that knowledge of the cars trumps road racing experience. Add in that at twice a year, a lot of these guys are getting REALLY good at this stuff.

It is a shame they don't do maybe a 3rd race, but I wouldn't hold my breath hoping.

I just have one final thought....GO RON!!!

[call_me_andrew]

The racing is great the cars as always look so good but the full course cautions are very annoying as you'll see.Nascar dont understand the concept of locailised yellows which is a shame.

They understand local cautions. It's the insurance companies that disagree.

[Mark in Oshawa]

They understand local cautions. It's the insurance companies that disagree.

That I think is lame. I think it is just NASCAR does things their way and that is the end of it. The double file restarts they have implemented will be fun at Infineon tho, so I suppose I may not mind the fact we don't have local yellows.

Actually, now I think of it, f1 the last few years has done the FCY thing too. I am afraid it is part of modern racing.

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Im very interested to see Nascar on a road course.

I've only been interested in NASCAR for a few months, but already loving it. and as my first road course watching experience, I hope it will be good-like a bigger bulkier version of BTCC, but hopefully funnier.

Im cheering on Montoya this weekend as an F1 fan I want a former F1 driver how good F1 drivers are.


The road course's are great and Sonoma is a pretty technical circuit with lots of elevation changes. And with the weight of these cars its genius.

The yellows are a little annoying but now we have the payoff of a double file restart.

[wedge]

Want a bigger bulkier version of BTCC? Im sure the V8 Supercars could give you that fix better than NASCAR can!!

I caught a view of a road course with the NASCAR boys and was amused as to how frigid a few of them were on the corners. Well if your used to going round in circles them im sure it can be a bit daunting

V8SC has cleaner racing!

NASCAR is completely unique to what a racing car should be - 1500kg to you and me! Not to mention stick shift and no TC!

Aussie racer Dick Johnson raced them and said the handling was pure evil if you got the set up wrong, satisfying when it was right.

Speaking of which, no one mentioned Marcus Ambrose! He made the opposition look stupid last year in his Cup debut. Was looking good to win till he punted off JPM.

He's my tip to win the race this year. He's had some strong results this year, top 10s here and there.

[wedge]

They understand local cautions. It's the insurance companies that disagree.

Bummer

They allowed local yellows in yesteryear.

[Lee Roy]

They understand local cautions. It's the insurance companies that disagree.

Yep. You hit the nail on the head.

[table]

V8SC has cleaner racing!

Aussie racer Dick Johnson raced them and said the handling was pure evil if you got the set up wrong, satisfying when it was right.

Speaking of which, no one mentioned Marcus Ambrose! He made the opposition look stupid last year in his Cup debut. Was looking good to win till he punted off JPM.

He's my tip to win the race this year. He's had some strong results this year, top 10s here and there.
Take a look at the Sonoma Pickem's and you will see that plenty of people are choosing Ambrose, including me. ;)

[e2mtt]

This years lineup at Infineon doesn't show any bias at all towards the "road" experts... not even guys like Gordon & Stewart. I think all of the Nascar drivers have been working on being good all-around drivers in recent years. (The only oval front-runner who still hasn't seemed to adapt to road coursed is Carl Edwards.)]

Tough break for Scott Speed, DNQ. His first year in the Cup hasn't been very kind to him.

[Mark in Oshawa]

This years lineup at Infineon doesn't show any bias at all towards the "road" experts... not even guys like Gordon & Stewart. I think all of the Nascar drivers have been working on being good all-around drivers in recent years. (The only oval front-runner who still hasn't seemed to adapt to road coursed is Carl Edwards.)]

Tough break for Scott Speed, DNQ. His first year in the Cup hasn't been very kind to him.

Speed had a time going that would have gotten him in, but with his teammate on pole he was really on it and lost it. People keep thinking Speed being an ex f1 guy should be up front, but he isn't still used to this car, and his aggressive f1 attitude wont work in this car.

The "ringers" or road racers from outside the regular Cup rides were not wasting time on qualifying setups likely. With the go and go home list, most of the top guys like Said, Fellows and Carpentier who don't have regular rides I suspect were working on making the car comfortable on long runs and looking to use their natural ability to be faster than the few go and go home guys who are not necessarily road racers.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Want a bigger bulkier version of BTCC? Im sure the V8 Supercars could give you that fix better than NASCAR can!!

I caught a view of a road course with the NASCAR boys and was amused as to how frigid a few of them were on the corners. Well if your used to going round in circles them im sure it can be a bit daunting

like everyone has said before, V8SC and NASCAR are different things. V8SC are designed for the road courses, whilst NASCARs are designed for constant speeeeeeeeeeed. (although Marcos ambrose looks a good bet today)

I love sonoma its a great track like everyone else has said-loved playing it on Gran Turismo 4 (even if that game is lame) and NASCAR09.

not looking foward to the yellows but hey what can you do.

[Lee Roy]

Qualifying at Infeneon.

A regular NASCAR driver with only one Cup win to his credit is sitting on the pole. His teammate, a former F1 driver, had to buy his way into the field.

[jeffmr2]

It made it exciting to watch but why werent the drivers allowed 2 laps for qualifying? Felt so sorry for Speed.

[call_me_andrew]

Two laps would take twice as long.

[harvick#1]

Two laps would take twice as long.

I'd prefer actual road racing qualies, have groups out there on 7-10 minute runs

[call_me_andrew]

We'd all rather have that.

[cgs]

I don't know if this still happens, but in the Nationwide series, they would send out groups of 5 cars to run as many laps as they could in a given time (i think it was 5 minutes) the slowest cars in practice went first and progressivly got to the fastest cars. i liked that format.

[harvick#1]

your correct, the NWS runs proper Qualies with the groups. now why the sprint cup doesn't do it baffles me

[steve_spackman]

Qualifying at Infeneon.

A regular NASCAR driver with only one Cup win to his credit is sitting on the pole. His teammate, a former F1 driver, had to buy his way into the field.

why was that i wonder?? :rolleyes:

[Lee Roy]

why was that i wonder?? :rolleyes:

Because the NASCAR driver drove fast enough to sit on the pole and the former F1 driver didn't drive fast enough to make the race. Pretty simple really.

[colinspooky]

I enjoyed the Sears Point race (where?)

One thing comparing with F1 (weird I know) - cautions in NASCAR on road course for smallish bits of debris.

None in F1 when a small mountain of debris was left on Silverstone.

One reason only I can think of. NASCAR drivers can go anywhere on track - hence great fun racing.

F1 drivers don't. Hence boring parades, albeit at high speed.

Shame

:dozey:

[wedge]

Road racing can be tedious in NASCAR when it comes down to long green mid-race fuel mileage runs

[muggle not]

Road racing can be tedious in NASCAR when it comes down to long green mid-race fuel mileage runs
The Infineon race was one of the best races of the year, so far.

[Sparky1329]

The Infineon race was one of the best races of the year, so far.

+1

If you want tedious watch a race at Fontana.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Qualifying at Infeneon.

A regular NASCAR driver with only one Cup win to his credit is sitting on the pole. His teammate, a former F1 driver, had to buy his way into the field.


You wouldn't think Speed saw that and thought "Hey...I am the f1 guy on this team, HE can't do THAT"...and overcooked it.

The thing is, you can be an f1 guy, and it means little in these cars. Growing up driving this sort of car is the best form of experience. Very few of the Road Course ringers make the transition to them, and most of them didn't do it coming from OW formula cars, they came from Sportscar/Saloons like Ron Fellows, Boris Said, Scott Pruett or Marcos Ambrose. JPM is the only ex formula driver in the NASCAR regulars who seems to have made the jump easily....and I am SURE it wasn't easy.

[wedge]

The Infineon race was one of the best races of the year, so far.

But past races there have appeared boring. Take JPM's first win there was long green flag runs and if wasn't for JPM's good gas mileage it would've been a snorefest

[Mark in Oshawa]

But past races there have appeared boring. Take JPM's first win there was long green flag runs and if wasn't for JPM's good gas mileage it would've been a snorefest

A boring NASCAR race at Infineon is still better than half the races I have seen at Chicago or Kansas, and better than most of the f1 races I have watched in the last two years.

[wedge]

A boring NASCAR race at Infineon is still better than half the races I have seen at Chicago or Kansas, and better than most of the f1 races I have watched in the last two years.

YOU'VE GOT TO BE JOKING!

The last couple of seasons in F1 have been absolutely incredible.

[Bob Riebe]

Just curious as to how well NASCAR drivers do on road courses?
Good enough that some of them were factory drivers in the early years of the Trans-Am.

[woody2goody]

Because the NASCAR driver drove fast enough to sit on the pole and the former F1 driver didn't drive fast enough to make the race. Pretty simple really.

Well he went off the track, he didn't strictly 'not drive fast enough'.

I actually feel sorry for him, because if he was driving the Red Bull instead of the 87 car, he'd have probably had a shot.

[Lee Roy]

Well he went off the track, he didn't strictly 'not drive fast enough'.


Okay then. He didn't drive "good enough" to make the race.

Better?

[Lee Roy]

YOU'VE GOT TO BE JOKING!

The last couple of seasons in F1 have been absolutely incredible.

"Boring", like "Beauty", is in the eye of the beholder.

I thought the race at Sonoma and F1 races are both exciting.

[Mark in Oshawa]

YOU'VE GOT TO BE JOKING!

The last couple of seasons in F1 have been absolutely incredible.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Watch some of the late 70's and early 80's f1 races and then compare them to the parades we have now.

How many passes for the lead do we have in f1 in a race? How about good duels in the field? I am watching different races than you I guess.