British Grand Prix Thread

[Valve Bounce]

OK, Just thought I'd start the ball rolling

[Valve Bounce]

There a re reports that McLaren expect great things for their car's revamped whatever they were revamping. Then Ferrari may also expect great things after a string of poor performances during races. (They have buggered my pickems :) )
Some hope Alonso may improve, but the spotlight will surely fall on Mark Webber to see how he will fare against his younger fast team mate.
Just wonder whether Mark will be lucky enough to win his first GP.

[Sonic]

Just watching some classic Brit GP's on red button. If this weekend can provide half the entertainment of some of the great races I'm watching at the moment then we are in for a thriller.

[Tazio]

Some hope Alonso may improve, but the spotlight will surely fall on Mark Webber to see how he will fare. I must say I am very interested in how the Webber, Fettel joust goes,
especially since I shot my mouth off and said MW will outscore SV.
But surely the spotlight will be on your other “main man”.....Bunsen

[Tazio]

Who's running KERS at S'stone?

[gloomyDAY]

Teammate battles should be great this weekend.

I think that Rosberg, Massa, and Vettel are really going to pull away from their teammates in this race.

[race_director]

Who's running KERS at S'stone?

Ferrari and one mclaren will run KRS on friday

If things work good then both mclaren will run on saturday and sunday

[turves]

Last year there was live streaming of Practice somewhere on this World Wide Interweb thing. Anyone any idea if there is this year, and a link if possible?

[Robinho]

BBC website

[Tazio]

Outside GB
http://www.justin.tv/dongizongi8

[Dave B]

BBC website
Even better if you're near a TV it's all on the red button.

[Robinho]

which i am Dave, "working" from home today! and just in time to watch the first spinner of the weekend, you'll all be amazed and surprised to learn it was Nelson Piquet

[Dave B]

Gotta love Piquet, the gift who keeps on giving.

Johnnie Walker's good value :up:

[Robinho]

new nose on the red bull - looks good and quick

[Robinho]

Mclaren monkeying about with Purple dye - what purpose does that serve?

[Tazio]

Any reason that JB hasonly done an installation lap?

[Robinho]

he's just gone out on track now

[Robinho]

according to his radio transmission he's going to do an 8 lap run

[Tazio]

Nice lap by JB p3

[Tazio]

JB smokin' now

[Tazio]

Webber to Fettel :)

[Tazio]

The Paparazzi just mugged Max :laugh:

[Rollo]

Webber fastest in practice as yet... and traffic problems on the M23 according Five Live Sports Extra.

I broke the BBC's website :D Usually I get "due to rights restrictions, this part of the broadcast is unavailable"... Yeah... take that Beeb!

[Tazio]

shift to
http://www.justin.tv/zuraccer002

[Mark]

We don't allow linking to potentailly copyright infringing content here. Sorry, whatever the rights and wrongs we must stay within the law.

[ioan]

Mclaren monkeying about with Purple dye - what purpose does that serve?

making it obvious to the fans that they got it all wrong and that their wind tunnel doesn't give them the right data?!

[ioan]

Webber to Fettel :)

And Vettel on top!

[Dave B]

making it obvious to the fans that they got it all wrong and that their wind tunnel doesn't give them the right data?!
I think their lap times and results already showed that. At least they're obviously still pushing on with development.

[Tazio]

And Vettel on top!

That's quite a battle them ol' boys got a brewin' :)

[ioan]

That's quite a battle them ol' boys got a brewin' :)

Ol' boys?! Who are you talking about?! :p

[Ranger]

Red Bull eight tenths in front of Brawn?

That HAS to be pisstaking! :\

[AndyL]

When I looked a bit earlier Brawn were ahead - I think Red Bull might have put in some low-fuel glory runs at the end. But you're right, 8/10 is a lot.

[Robinho]

Brawn haven't topped many practice sessions this year though, they tend to be working on the race pace

[ioan]

Red Bull eight tenths in front of Brawn?

That HAS to be pisstaking! :\

They were probably running light during this intra-team Friday showdown.

[jens]

Oh wait... We even have Grand Prix races in the "F1 Politics" series? :p : I had totally forgotten! But nah, they have marginal importance anyway, so doesn't matter in the scheme of things. :p :

[Tazio]

Webber to Fettel :)

[wedge]

They were probably running light during this intra-team Friday showdown.

Button struggling big time with front end stability.

[RJL25]

Brawn haven't topped many practice sessions this year though, they tend to be working on the race pace

true BUT Red Bull are usually tooling around outside the top 10 on friday as they normally run quite heavy on friday, so there pace either signals a change of strategy this weekend, or Mr. Newey has done something a little bit tricky

[Dave B]

Some quality parking from Mr Sutil there, running over his team mate's front wing in the pitlane!

[RJL25]

as well as the new nose, looks like Red Bull have a full double decker diffuser now as opposed to the semi-double decker diffuser debuted in Monaco.

Perhaps Red Bull have completely revised the undertray of the RB5 which would go some way to explaining the sudden burst of speed.

Hopefully Mark can out race his stupendesly quick young team mate to get his long awaited first win! Come on Sebastien... Just let Mark have one, you have no idea what its like being an aussie following F1! We just need one!!! PLEASE!!!!!

[Sonic]

Force India. P3????

Better get used to that for next year! :D :rolleyes:

[race_director]

are we racing rest of the year, or teams will do the installation lap and go back to pits???



GO NICO GO.

NICO 2009 CHAMPION

[yodasarmpit]

I almost forgot we had a race on this weekend.

[ioan]

are we racing rest of the year, or teams will do the installation lap and go back to pits???



GO NICO GO.

NICO 2009 CHAMPION

Don't make me laugh. Rosberg is at best average, he's barely better than Nakajima.

[emporer_k]

I almost forgot we had a race on this weekend.


I did remember but with everyting that has happend it is very easy to forget.

[Ari]

Funny that we're smack bang in the middle of a race weekend and this thread is 10 deep barely on the front page!

[wmcot]

Button struggling big time with front end stability.

Sorry to hear that, but how's his car? ;)

[ioan]

Sorry to hear that, but how's his car? ;)

:laugh: :up:

[markabilly]

Oh wait... We even have Grand Prix races in the "F1 Politics" series? :p : I had totally forgotten! But nah, they have marginal importance anyway, so doesn't matter in the scheme of things. :p :

the races merely provide background and context for the more important stuff such as lawsuits and such, very necessary so the buzzards can eat...

[markabilly]

Don't make me laugh. Rosberg is at best average, he's barely better than Nakajima.
Rosberg still racing? I thought he retired like about 15 or more years ago...

[ioan]

Rosberg still racing? I thought he retired like about 15 or more years ago...

He's just been trounced by Nakajima! :D

[ioan]

:eek: Vettel trounced the whole field by 0.4 seconds!

[yodasarmpit]

Great lap by Vettel.

[markabilly]

and hamilton trounced Buemi out of 19th place....

[markabilly]

He's just been trounced by Nakajima! :D
and naka trounces button as well

[wedge]

:eek: Vettel trounced the whole field by 0.4 seconds!

Probably low fuel as per usual

[wedge]

Button has shown the limits of his talents with an unbalanced car.

The cameraman at Luffield: your shoddy camerawork makes me feel nauseous. STOP IT!

[Dave B]

That stupid slanty-cam has no place in sport, it's not bleedin' Top of the Pops :s

[ioan]

Button has shown the limits of his talents with an unbalanced car.

Be afraid, be very afraid, Knockie will come after you now! :D

[ioan]

That stupid slanty-cam has no place in sport, it's not bleedin' Top of the Pops :s

Just show the poor job FOM are making.

[ioan]

I won't even mention the poor showing by Ferrari, 9th and 11th.
At least Massa can fill it up to the brim. and hope for a better start given the use of KERS.

[jens]

Williams has been surprising me recently - instead of usual tendency they are getting stronger as season progresses! Toyota is also coming back nicely after the horror of Monaco.

Everyone has expected former top teams like Ferrari/McLaren/BMW/Renault to outdevelop other teams during the season, but it looks like they are very far from accomplishing the task. Top8 positions on the grid for "underdogs" again! Hopefully this will end all those so-called status quo theories, which try to tell that current top teams are a fluke and Ferrari/McLaren will very soon inevitably start winning again.

About quali. Well, I'm afraid Vettel will be sent out on a useless 3-stop strategy again. :rolleyes: Stunning performance by Nakajima. If only he always drove like last time at Otodrom race and now at Silverstone quali...

Glock again disappointing in quali and he managed to get into Q3 only narrowly. On the other hand very satisfied with Trulli, considering that Silverstone has tended to be one of his worst circuits after Hungaroring.

[ioan]

Everyone has expected former top teams like Ferrari/McLaren/BMW/Renault to outdevelop other teams during the season, but it looks like they are very far from accomplishing the task.

The lack of testing is showing it's results.

[ioan]

Stunning performance by Nakajima. If only he always drove like last time at Otodrom race and now at Silverstone quali...

Maybe he's trying to find a place in a FOTA team for next season! :D

[jens]

The lack of testing is showing it's results.

True, but people should have taken that into account in their predictions already from the beginning of the season. ;)

[RJL25]

Webber reckons Kimi is drinking vodka in his car again... can't blame him really, i'm starting to think our Mark really is cursed, whenever it looks like something good might happen to him someone comes along to f*ck it all up for him. If Kimi wasn't there would it have been enough to get Vettel? Will never know, but his sector 1 and sector 3 times where more or less the same so it certainly would have been close, there hasn't been 4 tenths between seb and mark all weekend so I find it hard to believe there suddenly is in Q3

And yes I'm biased towards Webber but so what, it's not like i'm greedy, i'm not asking for a world championship, I just wanna see my driver get one decent bloody result! Why can't it just happen once....

[gloomyDAY]

Webber has won a few podiums this year.

I thought you weren't greedy.

[ioan]

Car weights (fuel loads) are published:

Pos Driver Weight (kg)
1. Sebastian Vettel 666.5
2. Rubens Barrichello 657.5
3. Mark Webber 659.5
4. Jarno Trulli 658.0
5. Kazuki Nakajima 652.5
6. Jenson Button 657.5
7. Nico Rosberg 661.5
8. Timo Glock 660.0
9. Kimi Raikkonen 654.0
10. Fernando Alonso 654.0
11. Felipe Massa 675.0 *
12. Robert Kubica 689.5 *
13. Heikki Kovalainen 695.5 *
14. Nelson Piquet 682.5 *
15. Nick Heidfeld 665.5 *
16. Giancarlo Fisichella 668.0 *
17. Sebastien Bourdais 687.5 *
18. Adrian Sutil 692.0 *
19. Lewis Hamilton 666.0 *
20. Sebastien Buemi 672.5 *

Vettel by far the heaviest in top 10!
Way to go Sebastian! :up: :up:

[christophulus]

Seriously impressive from Vettel then. No mistakes on the first lap and it looks like victory is secure. Surprised McLaren aren't using KERS though, surely off the line and in overtaking moves it'd be worthwhile from that far back?

[ioan]

Seriously impressive from Vettel then. No mistakes on the first lap and it looks like victory is secure. Surprised McLaren aren't using KERS though, surely off the line and in overtaking moves it'd be worthwhile from that far back?

Maybe they were expecting to qualify upfront! :rotflmao:

[Mauri A]

Car weights (fuel loads) are published:

Pos Driver Weight (kg)
1. Sebastian Vettel 666.5
2. Rubens Barrichello 657.5
3. Mark Webber 659.5
4. Jarno Trulli 658.0
5. Kazuki Nakajima 652.5
6. Jenson Button 657.5
7. Nico Rosberg 661.5
8. Timo Glock 660.0
9. Kimi Raikkonen 654.0
10. Fernando Alonso 654.0
11. Felipe Massa 675.0 *
12. Robert Kubica 689.5 *
13. Heikki Kovalainen 695.5 *
14. Nelson Piquet 682.5 *
15. Nick Heidfeld 665.5 *
16. Giancarlo Fisichella 668.0 *
17. Sebastien Bourdais 687.5 *
18. Adrian Sutil 692.0 *
19. Lewis Hamilton 666.0 *
20. Sebastien Buemi 672.5 *

Vettel by far the heaviest in top 10!
Way to go Sebastian! :up: :up:
The difference between Hamilton and Kovalainen is 30 kilos, speedwise it means about 0,9 secs a lap. Not the first time when Kovalainen is sent out with very heavy load.

[jens]

So Vettel has brilliant chances for a race win if Red Bull doesn't mess with his strategy again. Epic fail by Ferrari and Renault by fueling KR and FA so light only to take last spots in Q3. I don't understand, why does Renault constantly fuel Alonso light if he only narrowly makes it into Q3 - and it's not like light fuel load has helped him getting better grid spots except China. Considering his pace in Q1/Q2 I expected Nakajima to be heavier than that as well...

[yodasarmpit]

Car weights (fuel loads) are published:

Pos Driver Weight (kg)
1. Sebastian Vettel 666.5
2. Rubens Barrichello 657.5
3. Mark Webber 659.5
4. Jarno Trulli 658.0
5. Kazuki Nakajima 652.5
6. Jenson Button 657.5
7. Nico Rosberg 661.5
8. Timo Glock 660.0
9. Kimi Raikkonen 654.0
10. Fernando Alonso 654.0
11. Felipe Massa 675.0 *
12. Robert Kubica 689.5 *
13. Heikki Kovalainen 695.5 *
14. Nelson Piquet 682.5 *
15. Nick Heidfeld 665.5 *
16. Giancarlo Fisichella 668.0 *
17. Sebastien Bourdais 687.5 *
18. Adrian Sutil 692.0 *
19. Lewis Hamilton 666.0 *
20. Sebastien Buemi 672.5 *

Vettel by far the heaviest in top 10!
Way to go Sebastian! :up: :up:

WOW.

That's mighty impressive from Vettel.

[ioan]

WOW.

That's mighty impressive from Vettel.

After all Webber might have been right that he never had such a strong team mate even though Heidfeld beat him too!
It looks like if the team doesn't screw him with strategy Vettel will kick Webber day and night, he's simply blindingly fast, reminds me a bit of the way Schumacher was able to snatch pole when no one expected it anymore.

[Bagwan]

Just a thought about Vettel's pole from my armchair :

Bulls are looking well planted , but I wonder whether there will be tires still on Vettel's car , to take advantage of the situation .
Getting the skins to temperature early might be helping him avoid another embarassing first lap pass , but could be a handful when one is trying to work the advantage at that first stop .
Webber will stop first , and may be advantaged because of it .

[ioan]

Just a thought about Vettel's pole from my armchair :

Bulls are looking well planted , but I wonder whether there will be tires still on Vettel's car , to take advantage of the situation .
Getting the skins to temperature early might be helping him avoid another embarassing first lap pass , but could be a handful when one is trying to work the advantage at that first stop .
Webber will stop first , and may be advantaged because of it .

Depends where Webber finds himself after the pitstop.
Chances are bigger that Vettel will have free track while Webber won't.

What I'm a bit worried is that given Rubens' last race shenanigans it will be important for Vettel to keep away from him, far away.

[Sonic]

Jesus. No wonder Mark's a wee bit P1ssed. He knew he had to nail that lap and Kimi lickin his Vodka Lolly pop has left him screwed.

RBR are going to have to get behind Vettel to catch Button now.

[Tazio]

RBR are going to have to get behind Vettel to catch Button now.
Something Webber will never stand for, me thinks :arrows:
(at least not untill he is out of contention)

[WSRfan82]

i think button can still win this from 6th but my moneys on rub's

[Sonic]

Unless tomorrow is 10 degrees warmer (unlikely) Jens isn't going to be able to get sufficient heat in his tyres to be fast enough to catch the Bull's, but he should have the legs to get up to P4 on merit. Then we'll see what Mr Brawn on the pit wall's going to say.

[ioan]

Unless tomorrow is 10 degrees warmer (unlikely) Jens isn't going to be able to get sufficient heat in his tyres to be fast enough to catch the Bull's, but he should have the legs to get up to P4 on merit. Then we'll see what Mr Brawn on the pit wall's going to say.

Mr Brawn will give Rubens the best strategy, the one that will make sure that he finishes behind Jenson! :p :

[VkmSpouge]

Excellent qualifying by Sebastian Vettel! The Red Bull is the car to have at Silverstone. Jenson Button clearly struggling...amazing what difference a year makes, if this was 2008 and he was starting from 6th it would a fabulous qualifying effort. Kazumi Nakajima coming through really well in 5th place, though he is rather light.

[F1boat]

Amazing Vettel, trouble for Jenson. Time will tell whether this is genuine or RBR are just having a good weekend like Ferrari in Monte. Great job for Rubens as well.

[woody2goody]

Based on the fuel loads it will probably shake out like this:

Vettel
Webber
Barrichello
Trulli
Button
Rosberg
Nakajima
Glock

I reckon the top 8 are fairly safe as Kimi nor Fernando seem fast enough to challenge them. To be honest the only chance of points for Ferrari in the race is to get a good start using KERS, but it's not a long run to the first corner.

I think Force India have a good chance of beating Hamilton, Massa, Nelsinho and the Beemers.

[ioan]

B
I think Force India have a good chance of beating Hamilton, Massa, Nelsinho and the Beemers.

Seriously? Than why did they not manage to get out of Q1?

[race_director]

Guys, i really think that if kimi can fill scotch, instead of his usual Vodka in his tank tommorow . he can try for a win

[Valve Bounce]

He's just been trounced by Nakajima! :D

Not really! Naka is on a very, very light load.

[Valve Bounce]

Amazing Vettel, trouble for Jenson. Time will tell whether this is genuine or RBR are just having a good weekend like Ferrari in Monte. Great job for Rubens as well.

It is very interesting that Rubens and bunsen are on exactly the same fuel load.

[race_director]

Seriously? Than why did they not manage to get out of Q1?

well i do not want to sound like i am fighting you ioan ( we both on same team, tifosi brother's) but i think that a lot of driver's were not able to put there best time due to the red flag. if we could have the whole session then we would have had both mclaren at 18th and 19th. KOVI got lucky since he was at 15th and the session got red flagged . i am sure that sutil and fisi would have been in q2 instead of mclaren

[ozrevhead]

Based on the fuel loads it will probably shake out like this:

Vettel
Webber
Barrichello
Trulli
Button
Rosberg
Nakajima
Glock

I reckon the top 8 are fairly safe as Kimi nor Fernando seem fast enough to challenge them. To be honest the only chance of points for Ferrari in the race is to get a good start using KERS, but it's not a long run to the first corner.

I think Force India have a good chance of beating Hamilton, Massa, Nelsinho and the Beemers.
Im not giving up on Mark just yet - hes the lighter out of Vettel and RB so he should be able to jump them at the start. If mark gets to the first coner being P1 then he can win it still

[airshifter]

Mr Brawn will give Rubens the best strategy, the one that will make sure that he finishes behind Jenson! :p :

You have it backwards ioan. Ross changes Jenson to the slower strategy, which puts him in front of Rubens. :laugh:


Amazing effort by Vettel. And in all fairness for Jenson to have trouble at his "home" track is a bummer for him.

[Ranger]

It was a shame about Webber's first Q3 lap, he was dynamite in Q2 and all weekend on the hard tyres. Despite being lighter than Vettel I fully expect him to be able to challenge for victory tomorrow.

[Valve Bounce]

What are the opportunities to overtake at Silverstone? Can anyone elaborate, please?

[skm]

Has Mark got a bit of a history of losing a position or 2 at the start?

Qualifying versus how a race plays out can change dramatically. That said, I think Vettel is looking the goods. Unless he loses the lead. Which race the race may open a bit more.

[Ranger]

What are the opportunities to overtake at Silverstone? Can anyone elaborate, please?

Find a copy of the British Grand Prix of 2003, it will answer that pretty well. For a bone dry race it was one of the best F1 races you'll find.

Stowe, Vale, Abbey are usual spots as they are all preceded by straights.

You'll likely see a pass anywhere from Bridge to Luffield, because thats where most mistakes happen.

[Knock-on]

The difference between Hamilton and Kovalainen is 30 kilos, speedwise it means about 0,9 secs a lap. Not the first time when Kovalainen is sent out with very heavy load.

So you think they should have short filled HK?

That would make no sense to me whereas Lewis needs to be light to get up the field by overtraking. Heikki needs to be in the midfield.

Speak to his engineers :D

[Valve Bounce]

So you think they should have short filled HK?

That would make no sense to me whereas Lewis needs to be light to get up the field by overtraking. Heikki needs to be in the midfield.

Speak to his engineers :D

You leave Hammy alone - he likes the free bananas the monkeys get at the back.

[Knock-on]

You leave Hammy alone - he likes the free bananas the monkeys get at the back.

One day VB, you may actually say something intelligent :rolleyes:

Just joking but it is getting quite repeatitive ;) :D

[F1boat]

Im not giving up on Mark just yet

I think that this could become Mark vs Rubens. Vettel should be untouchable, but he is prone to make mistakes. We'll see.

[Knock-on]

Seb was awesome during qualifying and Mark must be scratching his head.

Rubens has a more aggressive style than Jenson so got the heat he needed for qualifying.

It's going to be down to how compromised Seb is at the start with the extra weight.

[raybak]

This has to be Webber's chance to take the top step. We have to get a BMSC member on the top step :)

Ray

[Ranger]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/6/9506.html

Rain possible!

[wedge]

Immense lap time from Vettel.

I wasn't sure if it was low fuel or not but Vettel really enjoyed that pole lap. I wasn't sure whether it was because he beat Webber, Button nowhere by this year's standards, or if it was really a truly awesome lap time.

[Knock-on]

Immense lap time from Vettel.

I wasn't sure if it was low fuel or not but Vettel really enjoyed that pole lap. I wasn't sure whether it was because he beat Webber, Button nowhere by this year's standards, or if it was really a truly awesome lap time.

He had up to 10kg more fuel than those around him.

[wedge]

I know

Just found that out before I originally posted!

[markabilly]

One day VB, you may actually say something intelligent :rolleyes:

Just joking but it is getting quite repeatitive ;) :D
Yeah Valve, leave poor knockie alone, he has had his heart broken when da Ham got photoed, strolling off with Adri-ana........

[markabilly]

Race for lead over---nobody got past vittels at the start, and so bye bye, unless he breaks it...................

[markabilly]

Lap 40, this time the code is for webber to back off vettel..................

another boring race pretty much over......

I wonder how the red bull of SB will smell without its nose?

[ShiftingGears]

First race this year that I haven't bothered to watch the finish of.

[F1boat]

First race this year that I haven't bothered to watch the finish of.

Yes, and the fact that I don't like Seb doesn't help ;) I watched the WTCC, which was cool, if I ignore the slow pace :)

[Dave B]

Aaaargh! James Allen's back, doing the press conference! :eek:

[christophulus]

Aaaargh! James Allen's back, doing the press conference! :eek:

I knew I recognised that voice!

[wedge]

So nobody enjoyed Hamilton vs. Renaults vs. BMWs?

[christophulus]

So nobody enjoyed Hamilton vs. Renaults vs. BMWs?

I did, but Red Bulls v Brawns v Williams/Ferrari on-track would've been a bit more exciting!

[ioan]

So nobody enjoyed Hamilton vs. Renaults vs. BMWs?

I did!
I enjoyed the whole race! Maybe because I'm not a big Webber fan and I wasn't expecting him t win.
Or maybe because there were plenty of fights all over the field.

Lewis mowing the lawn, Bourdais trying to shave the blisters from Kovalainen's left rear wheel, Heidfeld making Alonso look like an amateur and so on!

And before I forget, Massa's drive from 11th to 4th! :D

[Ranger]

Well, to be honest I'm just wishing that double diffuser was banned!

As everyone develops them, the racing this year is becoming increasingly like any other recent season.

[wedge]

Well, to be honest I'm just wishing that double diffuser was banned!

As everyone develops them, the racing this year is becoming increasingly like any other recent season.

If it isn't diffusers it would be something else. So by that logic an F1 season will get duller.

[VkmSpouge]

Excellent race win by Sebastian Vettel, he really was the class of the entire field this weekend.
Felipe Massa had a good race to come home in 4th place. Jenson Button suffered from being blocked in by Jarno Trulli at the start (Button a victim of his own poor qualifying performance) but did well enough to secure a damage limiting 6th place.
I felt Giancarlo Fisichella also had a good race, especially with that opportunistic move to pass both Nick Heidfeld and Fernando Alonso at Stowe.

[ioan]

Jenson Button suffered from being blocked in by Jarno Trulli at the start (Button a victim of his own poor qualifying performance) but did well enough to secure a damage limiting 6th place.

What?
Poor race from Button, just look at how he was nowhere on the harder tires compared to his very team mate. It just shows he's the same average driver and when the car isn't perfect, the results are, well, average!

[markabilly]

I did!


Lewis mowing the lawn, Bourdais trying to shave the blisters from Kovalainen's left rear wheel, ! :D

sounds like nascar--

next you will be jawing bull durham like a real man,



told you you would get hooked--all it would take is one race live--

(don't know why anybody would watch it on teevee) :beer:

[F1boat]

What?
Poor race from Button, just look at how he was nowhere on the harder tires compared to his very team mate. It just shows he's the same average driver and when the car isn't perfect, the results are, well, average!

You can say the same about Kimi or Felipe or Lewis. At least when he is losing, he is not crashing out like your fave boy wonder.

[ioan]

You can say the same about Kimi or Felipe or Lewis. At least when he is losing, he is not crashing out like your fave boy wonder.

Who's crashing out?! :laugh:
I said Jenson had an average race like always and you come back with all kind of rubbish! Very poor showing man, very poor! :rolleyes:

[steveaki13]

We need a really good race in Germany, as the last few have been dull on the whole.
We need Red Bull & Brawn on the same pace at the same track at the same time, so we can have a 4 race scrap for the lead, as opposed to Turkey Red Bull not on pace & Britain Brawn not at races.

[ioan]

We need a really good race in Germany, as the last few have been dull on the whole.

I liked today's race! It was a great race with plenty of battles going on!

[Valve Bounce]

Lap 40, this time the code is for webber to back off vettel..................

another boring race pretty much over......

I wonder how the red bull of SB will smell without its nose?

At this point, I logged of my PC (and webcast) and went to bed :(

...............totally bored.

[Valve Bounce]

So nobody enjoyed Hamilton vs. Renaults vs. BMWs?

Martin Brundle obviously did. He kept rabbiting on and on and on for ages about these monkeys at the tail end of the field fighting over a bunch of Bananas. :rolleyes:

There was a real battle up front as Mark was trying to get past Rubens, with the gap closing to 0.2 secs, but we weren't allowed to watch it. :(

[AndyL]

There was a real battle up front as Mark was trying to get past Rubens, with the gap closing to 0.2 secs, but we weren't allowed to watch it. :(

I know what you mean... but for anything to come out of that either Mark or Rubens would have had to make a mistake, unlikely in both cases, so I can sort of understand why the TV director chose to concentrate on the people in dodgy-handling cars towards the back.

[gloomyDAY]

Teammate battles should be great this weekend.

I think that Rosberg, Massa, and Vettel are really going to pull away from their teammates in this race.Let's see if more of the same happens in Germany.

[Valve Bounce]

Let's see if more of the same happens in Germany.

I don't think Vettel pulled away from his team mate - he pulled away from Rubens who was blocking Vettels team mate. Once Mark got past Rubens, his lap times not only matched Vettel's, but on some occasions, bettered Vettel's. However, common sense prevailed, and both drivers were told to save their cars.

[Valve Bounce]

I know what you mean... but for anything to come out of that either Mark or Rubens would have had to make a mistake, unlikely in both cases, so I can sort of understand why the TV director chose to concentrate on the people in dodgy-handling cars towards the back.

You don't know that, because we didn't see much of the Rubens/Mark battle did we!!

[ioan]

I don't think Vettel pulled away from his team mate - he pulled away from Rubens who was blocking Vettels team mate. Once Mark got past Rubens, his lap times not only matched Vettel's, but on some occasions, bettered Vettel's. However, common sense prevailed, and both drivers were told to save their cars.

Just take a look at the fastest laps, Vettel's fastest lap was 0.2 seconds faster than that of Webber, so don't tell me that Webber was able to match or outdrive Vettel and only Rubens was in his way.

[Valve Bounce]

Just take a look at the fastest laps, Vettel's fastest lap was 0.2 seconds faster than that of Webber, so don't tell me that Webber was able to match or outdrive Vettel and only Rubens was in his way.

I followed the race on F1.com's live coverage. I am not focussing on one single lap, but the gap did come down once Mark got past Vettel. If you don't believe me, then check on teh individual lap times where you can - I don't know where. But don't tell me what I can't tell you - I can tell it as it was because I watched it

But quite frankly, I wasn't telling specifically you anything - I wouldn't bother.

[AndyL]

You don't know that, because we didn't see much of the Rubens/Mark battle did we!!

:D
You could argue that the TV director didn't know that, but we do know that now since the race is over and Mark didn't manage to pass Rubens on track :p

[Valve Bounce]

:D
You could argue that the TV director didn't know that, but we do know that now since the race is over and Mark didn't manage to pass Rubens on track :p

Yeah!! hindsight is a blinder, ain't it. If I had that, I'd be driving a Ferrari right now!

[ioan]

I followed the race on F1.com's live coverage. I am not focussing on one single lap, but the gap did come down once Mark got past Vettel. If you don't believe me, then check on teh individual lap times where you can - I don't know where. But don't tell me what I can't tell you - I can tell it as it was because I watched it

But quite frankly, I wasn't telling specifically you anything - I wouldn't bother.

Why would have Vettel pushed after he had a gap enough for a supplementary pitstop between himself and Webber?!

Fastest laptime is what shows what they are capable off if push comes to the shovel, and Vettel was 0.2 seconds per lap faster when needed.

And BTW, Mark never got past Vettel.

[Valve Bounce]

Why would have Vettel pushed after he had a gap enough for a supplementary pitstop between himself and Webber?!

Fastest laptime is what shows what they are capable off if push comes to the shovel, and Vettel was 0.2 seconds per lap faster when needed.

And BTW, Mark never got past Vettel.

Thank you for sharing that with us.

[ioan]

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I thought it was better like this than leaving you with a distorted view of reality.

[ShiftingGears]

Fastest laptime is what shows what they are capable off if push comes to the shovel, and Vettel was 0.2 seconds per lap faster when needed.

Fastest lap doesn't prove anything about who is the fastest.

An example -
In the 2008 Malaysian Grand Prix, Heidfeld set the fastest lap and yet was outpaced by Kubica throughout the grand prix.

[ioan]

Fastest lap doesn't prove anything about who is the fastest.

An example -
In the 2008 Malaysian Grand Prix, Heidfeld set the fastest lap and yet was outpaced by Kubica throughout the grand prix.

Only that Vettel didn't have one fast lap but plenty of them with quite a few faster than what Webber managed.

I suggest we analyze each case for what it is as what Heidfeld and Kubica did has bugger all to do with what happened yesterday at Silverstone.

[ShiftingGears]

Only that Vettel didn't have one fast lap but plenty of them with quite a few faster than what Webber managed.

Link please?

[ShiftingGears]

Only that Vettel didn't have one fast lap but plenty of them with quite a few faster than what Webber managed.

Link?


I suggest we analyze each case for what it is as what Heidfeld and Kubica did has bugger all to do with what happened yesterday at Silverstone.

Exactly - fastest lap doesn't automatically mean fastest driver.

[Ent]

If you're going to analyse each race on its own merits, then at least do the analysis. Vettel set his fastest lap on the first stint, when Webber was behind Barrichello. During the second stint, both drivers did longer runs and preserved their tyres a bit more, hence the reason why even Vettel wasn't as fast in the second stint. The third was done on the slower, harder tyres (even though Mark set his fastest lap on these, as he didn't have to preserve them like the softer ones).

So, unless we can compare the second stint times, when both drivers were free to drive at their quickest, we'll never know.

What we do know was that Vettel was at least 20 seconds ahead of Webber at the first stop, and only 15 ahead at the end. This seems to indicate that, for the last 2 stints, the comment "Vettel didn't have one fast lap but plenty of them with quite a few faster than what Webber managed" as complete rubbish. If that were the case, how did Webber make up that 5 seconds?

Taking all this into account, it tells us that Vettel with no one in front of him was faster than Webber with Barrichello in front (no surprise there), and that it was pretty even for the rest of the day. Vettel was told to ease off (but often didn't), which would explain Webber catching. At the end of the day, we didn't get to see both drivers in the same conditions at the same time, so we can't compare.

How's that for analysis. :)

[Valve Bounce]

I thought it was better like this than leaving you with a distorted view of reality.

No you didn't. I just didn't want to argue with you.
As a matter of fact, those of us who logged onto pino's chat room were well aware of the gap between Vettel and Rubens just prior to the 1st pit stop, and we all monitored the gap between Mark and Vettel after the pit stop until both Red Bull cars were ordered to keep station.

You can never leave me with a distorted view on anything - I don't take much notice of your views.

[Knock-on]

No you didn't. I just didn't want to argue with you.
As a matter of fact, those of us who logged onto pino's chat room were well aware of the gap between Vettel and Rubens just prior to the 1st pit stop, and we all monitored the gap between Mark and Vettel after the pit stop until both Red Bull cars were ordered to keep station.

You can never leave me with a distorted view on anything - I don't take much notice of your views.

Don't encourage him to log onto the chat room. It's the last bastion of common sense that hasn't been ioan-ised :laugh:

[Valve Bounce]

If you're going to analyse each race on its own merits, then at least do the analysis. Vettel set his fastest lap on the first stint, when Webber was behind Barrichello. During the second stint, both drivers did longer runs and preserved their tyres a bit more, hence the reason why even Vettel wasn't as fast in the second stint. The third was done on the slower, harder tyres (even though Mark set his fastest lap on these, as he didn't have to preserve them like the softer ones).

So, unless we can compare the second stint times, when both drivers were free to drive at their quickest, we'll never know.

What we do know was that Vettel was at least 20 seconds ahead of Webber at the first stop, and only 15 ahead at the end. This seems to indicate that, for the last 2 stints, the comment "Vettel didn't have one fast lap but plenty of them with quite a few faster than what Webber managed" as complete rubbish. If that were the case, how did Webber make up that 5 seconds?

Taking all this into account, it tells us that Vettel with no one in front of him was faster than Webber with Barrichello in front (no surprise there), and that it was pretty even for the rest of the day. Vettel was told to ease off (but often didn't), which would explain Webber catching. At the end of the day, we didn't get to see both drivers in the same conditions at the same time, so we can't compare.

How's that for analysis. :)

Actually, I was surprised that both cars had almost identical times for the first sector, but Mark often had faster times in sector 2 during the second stint.
However, it became very clear that Mark was never going to make up those 20 seconds, despite what Martin was sprouting (about Mansell catching Piquet in some famous previous chase). I am not even going to speculate whether Mark could have gotten past Vettel had he been running in p2 instead of p3 after the start. I felt the two were that evenly matched that any attempt at some silly pass may have taken both cars out.
This part of the discussion is between you and me, and does not concern "you know who".

[Valve Bounce]

Don't encourage him to log onto the chat room. It's the last bastion of common sense that hasn't been ioan-ised :laugh:

Sorry Knockie - it's late here, I've enjoyed some lovely wine, and wasn't thinking straight. :(
My bad!!

[ShiftingGears]

If you're going to analyse each race on its own merits, then at least do the analysis. Vettel set his fastest lap on the first stint, when Webber was behind Barrichello. During the second stint, both drivers did longer runs and preserved their tyres a bit more, hence the reason why even Vettel wasn't as fast in the second stint. The third was done on the slower, harder tyres (even though Mark set his fastest lap on these, as he didn't have to preserve them like the softer ones).

So, unless we can compare the second stint times, when both drivers were free to drive at their quickest, we'll never know.

What we do know was that Vettel was at least 20 seconds ahead of Webber at the first stop, and only 15 ahead at the end. This seems to indicate that, for the last 2 stints, the comment "Vettel didn't have one fast lap but plenty of them with quite a few faster than what Webber managed" as complete rubbish. If that were the case, how did Webber make up that 5 seconds?

Taking all this into account, it tells us that Vettel with no one in front of him was faster than Webber with Barrichello in front (no surprise there), and that it was pretty even for the rest of the day. Vettel was told to ease off (but often didn't), which would explain Webber catching. At the end of the day, we didn't get to see both drivers in the same conditions at the same time, so we can't compare.

How's that for analysis. :)

:up:

[Knock-on]

Sorry Knockie - it's late here, I've enjoyed some lovely wine, and wasn't thinking straight. :(
My bad!!

Actually, you make more sense after a couple of glassed VB. Have one for me :D

[ioan]

If you're going to analyse each race on its own merits, then at least do the analysis. Vettel set his fastest lap on the first stint, when Webber was behind Barrichello.

I suppose Webber did his best lap just before he pitted, with an empty tank and when Rubens wasn't in front of him anymore, still he has been 0.2 seconds short of Vettel.

You talk about doing an analysis and than come up with half truths.

[ioan]

Sorry Knockie - it's late here, I've enjoyed some lovely wine, and wasn't thinking straight. :(
My bad!!

That explains you previous posts than.

[ShiftingGears]

I suppose Webber did his best lap just before he pitted, with an empty tank and when Rubens wasn't in front of him anymore, still he has been 0.2 seconds short of Vettel.

You talk about doing an analysis and than come up with half truths.

No. Webbers fastest lap was on lap 57.

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2009/813/6645/fastest_laps.html

[ioan]

No. Webbers fastest lap was on lap 57.

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2009/813/6645/fastest_laps.html

My bad.

Anyway to little to late. He should have done it when Rubens pitted, as it was he almost lost 2nd when he rejoind the track.
So he pushed hard till the end and still finished a mile down on Vettel who was cruising for 2/3rds of the race?!

Let's face it, this was Webber's best chance to date to win a race and he was blown out of the water by his younger team mate, by quite a margin.
In a way I feel sorry for him, but that's life at the top of any sport, there's only one winner.

[ShiftingGears]

A bit late. So he pushed hard till the end and still finished a mile down on Vettel who was cruising for 2/3rds of the race?!

Vettel was still doing some fast laps towards the end, as was Webber. They are closely matched, and when you get baulked until you are 20 seconds behind, you aren't going to make that up. Blown out of the water, absolutely not.

[jens]

This season is really-really incredible.

Okay, I can understand former Honda in BrawnGP dominating after putting all their focus and resources for 2009 earlier than others after having gathered together a talented design team.
I can even understand Red Bull performing brilliantly with their very good technical team.

But that underfunded privateer teams like Williams and Force India are developing faster during a season than all big factory teams, is just plain amazing and incredible. Just wow. 2009 has already broken so many views, statements and myths and it just keep going on. I have no other explanation that while FIA and others talk about budget caps and cost reductions, then in a way that testing ban is quite efficiently fulfilled that task, helping smaller teams, who with wise development ideas can avoid bigger teams really "out-testing" them. In any other way I really can't comprehend, how can FI outdevelop factory teams. I have a lot of respect for Mallya team's efforts and the stability the team has finally found, but no way in hell I expected them to become genuine midfielders, which was their goal in pre-season.

[ioan]

But that underfunded privateer teams like Williams and Force India are developing faster during a season than all big factory teams, is just plain amazing and incredible.

Incredible because it's not true.
Or am I missing something and Williams and Force India got better results than Ferrari this season?!
Just look from how far back the red team managed to come and fight for podium finishing positions.

[ioan]

Vettel was still doing some fast laps towards the end, as was Webber. They are closely matched, and when you get baulked until you are 20 seconds behind, you aren't going to make that up. Blown out of the water, absolutely not.

You say they are closely matched I say that there is more than one tenth between them, in Vettel's favor, and that is a lot in F1.
Anyway, let's wait and see! :D

[jens]

Incredible because it's not true.
Or am I missing something and Williams and Force India got better results than Ferrari this season?!
Just look from how far back the red team managed to come and fight for podium finishing positions.

Points-wise Ferrari may have come from "far back", but not performance-wise. Already in Australia Ferraris were running 3rd and 5th in the first stint, so some kind of pace has always been there, not the rest of the competency though. Force India qualified to the back row in the opening races, so pace-wise they have clearly closed the gap, finishing not far behind points-awarding positions in some races and having overtaken BMW/McLaren/Renault. Well, and Williams got better result than Ferrari for example in Turkey. Don't know, why are you trying to downplay their achievements?

[ioan]

Points-wise Ferrari may have come from "far back", but not performance-wise. Already in Australia Ferraris were running 3rd and 5th in the first stint...

First stint! Come on Jens, they also did run better than that sometimes in a race this year, but that doesn't mean squat!
Finishing positions are what counts and they have improved most.



Force India qualified to the back row in the opening races, so pace-wise they have clearly closed the gap...

How much was the lap time difference between Force India in Australia and how much is now? You will possibly find out that they didn't improve too much but rather BMW, McLaren, Renault and STR went backwards lately and thus the Force India isn't qualifying dead last anymore.