Any chance of another USGP?

[IndyCarFan]

If the teams do break away and form their own series is there much of a chance that the new series would come to the US since most of the breakaway teams are in some way backed by one of the major auto companies?

And if so, where do they go? Back to Indy?

And IF the teams do break away is there any chance that F1 returns to the US market (Indy) as a pre-emptive strike against the new series to prevent them from getting a foothold in the US?

[Mark in Oshawa]

There still would be a race at Indy TODAY if Bernie didn't hold Tony George up for ransom to host it. The problem with F1 isn't that the countries don't want or cant support the races, the problem is that no one makes money but Bernie on these deals, and American promotors and a few up here in Canada kinda dug their heels in when asked to cough up 25 million just to host a race. Pretty hard to make money when you are paying greenmail to Bernie..

[driveace]

that is what happens all over the world with F1,in some cases they lease the track to Bernie,and he makes all the dosh.Same in Spa too!
Thats also the problem with Silverstone,they wont dance to his tune ,So we go to Donington IF ITS READY !

[Mark in Oshawa]

This article here I found on grandprix.com and it sums up the faulty business model of f1 and WHY the races will continue to go to places that make no sense in many ways:

http://www.grandprix.com/gt/gt21392.html

If you read this, you will see the Chinese have been pouring money down the hole to keep their race and don't really care because the race is showing China's new face to the world. It is likely similar motives for places like Bahrain and Malaysia, not to mention the idea that India is after a race.

I have no issue with countries holding GP's, but it seems what is best for the sport, and best for the fans that have supported f1 tradtionally is being lost.

[woody2goody]

I hope there will be another US GP soon. I really want the Americans to love F1, because motor racing is in the American soul, and to see how much they love bike racing, NASCAR, Indycars and the like, and not be too knowledgeable about F1 on the whole, is quite sad.

That's partly why I was so bothered by the 2002, 04 and 05 races in Indy, because of the fact it painted F1 in a horrible light. Yes, the 03 race was great, and the last three were decent, but F1 needs to be there.

Indianapolis, like the circuit or not, provided pretty good racing, and had a couple of clear cut overtaking opportunities. Indy would work really well with the current cars IMO.

[markabilly]

or Turkey and China, which both races where the ABSENCE of spectators was very noticeable.....but not a problem for bernie

[DexDexter]

I hope there will be another US GP soon. I really want the Americans to love F1, because motor racing is in the American soul, and to see how much they love bike racing, NASCAR, Indycars and the like, and not be too knowledgeable about F1 on the whole, is quite sad.

That's partly why I was so bothered by the 2002, 04 and 05 races in Indy, because of the fact it painted F1 in a horrible light. Yes, the 03 race was great, and the last three were decent, but F1 needs to be there.

Indianapolis, like the circuit or not, provided pretty good racing, and had a couple of clear cut overtaking opportunities. Indy would work really well with the current cars IMO.

I agree with you except on the part that "they love Indycars". That's not true at all at the moment, based on facts. Maybe open-wheel type racing just isn't their cup of tea.

[Jag_Warrior]

I agree with you except on the part that "they love Indycars". That's not true at all at the moment, based on facts. Maybe open-wheel type racing just isn't their cup of tea.

Yeah, that is sort of past tense at this point. As we were discussing on the IRL board, the Indy 500 and the IRL are seeing record low viewership this year. I don't know what F1's ratings look like on Speed Channel or Fox (hmm, something I can look up tonight), but I doubt they're at record lows here.

I'd really like to see the Canadian GP come back most of all, because I love the Montreal circuit. But if they can put together a USGP, that's fine too. I'm not holding my breath though.

[JustRace]

A great deal has been said in Indy recently about the change in leadership structure at IMS, and Tony's role (whether it is true or not remains to be seen). Unless someone at IMS sees the F1 race at Indy as a profit venture - it has a chance. If they don't, no chance. The have one money losing venture on their hands already, and the Board is tiring of the drain.

[yodasarmpit]

Bring back CART, oops wrong thread. :D

[Tazio]

There still would be a race at Indy TODAY if Bernie didn't hold Tony George up for ransom to host it. The problem with F1 isn't that the countries don't want or cant support the races, the problem is that no one makes money but Bernie on these deals, and American promotors and a few up here in Canada kinda dug their heels in when asked to cough up 25 million just to host a race. Pretty hard to make money when you are paying greenmail to Bernie.. Absolutely undeniably true.
North Americans love auto racing. They also love a good circus, but generally don't find viewing them both on the same day as a viable family outing. The drivers hate Indy the term Mickey Mouse is a joke among them about the silly infield section added to make it a road course. Combine that with the longest full throttle section in F1 and it's a set-up nightmare. It does make for some interesting racing. But it's a Horse$hit road course!

[anthonyvop]

If they start a breakaway series the FIA will probably not sanction it.

Would any track in the US risk losing FIA certification?

If a track was to lose FIA certification that would mean no FIA sanctioned event will hold an event there.
That means no IRL. No NASACR. No ALMS. No Grand-Am. It would even prevent a track from holding an SCCA or NASA regional race.

The only way it could happen would be on a Temporary Street Course...with no other series as a supporting event.

[call_me_andrew]

If they start a breakaway series the FIA will probably not sanction it.

Would any track in the US risk losing FIA certification?

If a track was to lose FIA certification that would mean no FIA sanctioned event will hold an event there.
That means no IRL. No NASACR. No ALMS. No Grand-Am. It would even prevent a track from holding an SCCA or NASA regional race.

The only way it could happen would be on a Temporary Street Course...with no other series as a supporting event.

A track doesn't need FIA certification to host domestic racing. The FIA can't police a U.S. based series that operates solely in the U.S. The only time the FIA comes into play is if a U.S. series wants to hold a race outside of the U.S. like IndyCar at Motegi. And even then it's not much of an issue because the FIA does an excellent job of ignoring ovals.

[anthonyvop]

A track doesn't need FIA certification to host domestic racing. The FIA can't police a U.S. based series that operates solely in the U.S. The only time the FIA comes into play is if a U.S. series wants to hold a race outside of the U.S. like IndyCar at Motegi. And even then it's not much of an issue because the FIA does an excellent job of ignoring ovals.
Not true.
Every sanctioning body in the U.S. is a member of ACCUS. ACCUS is the FIA Representative.
The FIA can be vindictive and totally hose any track it wants.

[markabilly]

Good riddance to that worm infested old bag of bones F*****International A****les

If they were worth anything, they never would have sold their soul to bernie (but Max would not have gotten his $300,000,000 gift in return from Bernie)---which is what the latest dust up is all about, maXie wants all little taste under the table from bernie to smooth things over

[ClarkFan]

Absolutely undeniably true.
North Americans love auto racing. They also love a good circus, but generally don't find viewing them both on the same day as a viable family outing. The drivers hate Indy the term Mickey Mouse is a joke among them about the silly infield section added to make it a road course. Combine that with the longest full throttle section in F1 and it's a set-up nightmare. It does make for some interesting racing. But it's a Horse$hit road course!

The US has some fine road courses, but the problem is they are mainly located in the countryside and none would pass the Ecclestone white-glove-and-caviar test. Indy had the relative virtues of being located in a city, prexisting facilities for large crowds (another problem with the remote tracks), and the history of the Speedway.

BTW, I doubt the FIA has any clout with NASCAR and IRL. If the Speedway road course were to host a breakaway single seater race and Max&Bernie told the US-based series that meant they could no longer go to Indy, the good ol' boys and IRL would tell M&B where they could stick it. They would give Max a whipping so vicious he wouldn't even enjoy it.....

ClarkFan

[anthonyvop]

Good riddance to that worm infested old bag of bones F*****International A****les

If they were worth anything, they never would have sold their soul to bernie (but Max would not have gotten his $300,000,000 gift in return from Bernie)---which is what the latest dust up is all about, maXie wants all little taste under the table from bernie to smooth things over

I agree. I am sick and tired of F1 being run by the people who made it one of the most popular form of sport on the planet.

Who cares about a huge world-wide TV audience?

Who cares about manufacturers?

Who cares about mega-$$$ sponsors?

Who cares that unlike every other series F1 can turn away people and pick & chose who can come in.

Who cares that venues are scrambling to add F1 to their calendars?

[anthonyvop]

BTW, I doubt the FIA has any clout with NASCAR and IRL. If the Speedway road course were to host a breakaway single seater race and Max&Bernie told the US-based series that meant they could no longer go to Indy, the good ol' boys and IRL would tell M&B where they could stick it. They would give Max a whipping so vicious he wouldn't even enjoy it.....

ClarkFan

You are so wrong.
If Indy was to tick off the FIA they could pull the FIA license of every IRL driver.
That means kiss any F1 dreams goodbye. Also Say goodbye to any ALMS or Grand-Am ride.

Same with NASCAR. The FIA could pull it's Grand-Am Sanctioning. 3/4 of the drivers would jump ship before the ink on the press release was dry.

I would bet that even more than a Handful of Indy Car drivers would give up their rides rather than risk an FIA banning.

[ClarkFan]

You are so wrong.
If Indy was to tick off the FIA they could pull the FIA license of every IRL driver.
That means kiss any F1 dreams goodbye. Also Say goodbye to any ALMS or Grand-Am ride.

Same with NASCAR. The FIA could pull it's Grand-Am Sanctioning. 3/4 of the drivers would jump ship before the ink on the press release was dry.

I would bet that even more than a Handful of Indy Car drivers would give up their rides rather than risk an FIA banning.

Sorry, but my view is very different. Ask a NASCAR driver/team to pick between Grand Am and the Brickyard 400, which do you think they would pick? Grand Am is a stepchild that the France family subsidizes for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me. The only Grand Am race where you see NASCAR headliners is at Daytona and only there because the Frances want their boys to support the Daytona Speedway, which the family controls. The Brickyard is the #2 race in NASCAR.

The story on the 500 is murkier, but there really aren't many drivers in the IRL with F1 aspirations. If they had them, they would be racing in Europe, not the IRL, and that includes Rahal and Andretti. In fact, several of IRL drivers are racing in the IRL because they didn't make it to F1. And remember, if the FIA declares war on the Speedway, they are declaring war on the guy who owns/runs the IRL. Tony replaced a whole generation of CART drivers 12 years ago to get his way - no reason he wouldn't do it again.

Bottom line here is that all these statements are hypothetical. I think that the likeliest outcome is that Max backs down just enough to bring in the FOTA teams, or that Max is removed and then the the FIA backs down just enough to bring in the FOTA teams. The there will be another fight on this issue next year or the year after. The FIA can't stage a reasonable F1 World Championship with the sudden loss of the FOTA teams - you really will end up with a GP2 meet with Cosworth engines replacing Renault. But the FOTA teams also need the FIA to guarantee full access to tracks.

The bigger hurdle to North American races is the notes CVC owes to the banks (led by Royal Bankrupt of Scotland if I remember the stories from a few years ago correctly). The debt service is one of the reasons for the squeeze FOM places on both venues and teams - which I called the strip mining of F1 in another post. The sanctioning fees mean that commercial promoters can't afford to pay the fees without massive government subsidies and that just isn't going to happen in the US and Canada (or the UK for that matter).

And in response to your other post, there aren't venues lining up to get into F1. There are governments lining up to get the PR image boost from hosting a F1 race. But what governments give, they can quickly take away, and F1 as it is structured today is ill suited to living with the privately owned tracks that support most of motorsports.

ClarkFan

[anthonyvop]

Clarkfan,

While I agree that most NASCAR drivers could care less if they can't drive in another series but all the other drivers of other series do.
Not to mention teams. Penske and Gannasi would have to make a choice.

Also ISC would care if other series couldn't drive at their tracks. Their Grand-Am series would be dead. Their tracks would lose huge amounts of revenue from club racing and even testing.

As big and powerful you think NASCAR is the tentacles of the FIA reach far and wide.

[call_me_andrew]

Not true.
Every sanctioning body in the U.S. is a member of ACCUS. ACCUS is the FIA Representative.
The FIA can be vindictive and totally hose any track it wants.

ACCUS is about as threatening as a Backstreet Boy. It is not a bunch of FIA lackies. Its main purpose is to provide a liason between its member clubs and the FIA.

[markabilly]

You are so wrong.
If Indy was to tick off the FIA they could pull the FIA license of every IRL driver.
That means kiss any F1 dreams goodbye. Also Say goodbye to any ALMS or Grand-Am ride.

Same with NASCAR. The FIA could pull it's Grand-Am Sanctioning. 3/4 of the drivers would jump ship before the ink on the press release was dry.

I would bet that even more than a Handful of Indy Car drivers would give up their rides rather than risk an FIA banning.

It is called anti-trust---
Time for the lawyers to start picking the bones of the FIA

[markabilly]

I agree. I am sick and tired of F1 being run by the people who made it one of the most popular form of sport on the planet.

Who cares about a huge world-wide TV audience?

Who cares about manufacturers?

Who cares about mega-$$$ sponsors?

Who cares that unlike every other series F1 can turn away people and pick & chose who can come in.

Who cares that venues are scrambling to add F1 to their calendars?

dude
that happened long before the greed of maXie and benrie corrupted its soul

the interst and sponsorship would be even higher, if maxie and bennie were not feasting on their own children and squeezing out every last penny possible

[DexDexter]

dude

the interst and sponsorship would be even higher, if maxie and bennie were not feasting on their own children and squeezing out every last penny possible


That is a very bold statement, the interest is already there and so is the sponshorship. In reality F1 really can't get any bigger except in the States.

[markabilly]

That is a very bold statement, the interest is already there and so is the sponshorship. In reality F1 really can't get any bigger except in the States.
in reality, F1 can't get any bigger.....

and should that happen?
Yes
Will it?
Hahahahahah
already had their chances and benie's greed keeps blowing it, prefering the empty stands of Turkey, china, abu daoobeadoyurmother.............

[I am evil Homer]

That is a very bold statement, the interest is already there and so is the sponshorship. In reality F1 really can't get any bigger except in the States.

Or those other small countires.....what were they called....Russia, India and China I think.

[markabilly]

Or those other small countires.....what were they called....Russia, India and China I think.
more empty stands............................................ ..........

[Tazio]

dude
that happened long before the greed of maXie and benrie corrupted its soul

the interst and sponsorship would be even higher, if maxie and bennie were not feasting on their own children and squeezing out every last penny possibleWhat's more important a larger proportion of the is gazillions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
will be going to the teams instead of Bernie's pockets. Too say nothing of a fair commissioner’s office
in exchange for the FIA, or the FIA suddenly becoming one.
That may require new leadership. :mad:
By the Almighty

[anthonyvop]

It is called anti-trust---
Time for the lawyers to start picking the bones of the FIA

Nope.

The FIA and ACCUS are both Not-for-Profit organizations so are pretty much exempt from anti-trust actions.

It would be equivalent to going after the American Medical Association with anti-trust actions.

[schmenke]

more empty stands............................................ ..........

As long as Bernie can negotiate a multi-year agreement with a venue for a several $M per year he doesn't give a hoot about ticket sales. Despite the empty grandstand seats the government of China still pays the fees to host the event.
Besides, the vast majority of revenues is generated from television broadcast rights. A few thousand empty grandstands pales in comparison to the millions of television viewers every fortnight.