best gp ever?

[zoostation]

thats right

its quite a cliche i think, but ive never actually seen it asked as long as ive been a member.

so yeah, whats you fav race?

[Erki]

Brazil 2006 - SchuM's last one. :devil:




:p :

[D-Type]

I wish I could have been at the 1933 Monaco GP. A race long duel between Nuvolari (Alfa) and Varzi (Bugatti) resolved on the last lap when Nuvolari's engine let go. There were at leas 17 lead changes. With the short Monaco track, you would have seen the duelling pair come past 100 times. To be pedantically correct their duel only lasted 97 of the 100 laps as it took Nuvolari 3 laps to get up from 4th place to challenge Varzi.

[EuroTroll]

I wish I could have been at the the A.D. 67 Olympic Games where the Roman Emperor Nero raced a ten-horse chariot and nearly died after being thrown from it, but was crowned Olympic Champion nevertheless. :)

[D-Type]

You ill-mannered little git!

Don't they know in Estonia that Grand Prix racing started in 1906, not on May 13th 1950? Or do they simply believe the revisionist history pushed out by the people who make a fortune out of the 'Formula 1 TV show'?

[futuretiger9]

1971 Italian GP, Monza

[EuroTroll]

You ill-mannered little git!

Don't they know in Estonia that Grand Prix racing started in 1906, not on May 13th 1950? Or do they simply believe the revisionist history pushed out by the people who make a fortune out of the 'Formula 1 TV show'?

I was just saying where I'd like to be... :p : Wrong thread? :cheese:

As to your question... I guess we all know that the view that everything started in 1950 is very common indeed. The propaganda has been effective. But I know better, 'cause I read History and Nostalgia, see? :)

[Erki]

Don't they know in Estonia that Grand Prix racing started in 1906, not on May 13th 1950? Or do they simply believe the revisionist history pushed out by the people who make a fortune out of the 'Formula 1 TV show'?

Where do you get that impression?

Can't say if it was the 'best' ever, because I didn't see any pre-78, but from the ones I have seen, which is every one since then.....

French GP 1979.

Not just because of the classic ding-dong battle between Villenueve & Arnoux, but also because it was the first victory for the works Renault team with their turbo engine. The F1 world would never be the same again.

For unpredictabilty, the 1982 Monaco GP has got to be mentioned.

[jens]

I wish I could have been at the the A.D. 67 Olympic Games where the Roman Emperor Nero raced a ten-horse chariot and nearly died after being thrown from it, but was crowned Olympic Champion nevertheless. :)

The best race was held in the Stone Age and soon it will be archeologically proved!

[D-Type]

Where do you get that impression?
I don't know if you are also from Estonia (your profile doesn't say), if so will you and your fellow Estonians please accept my apologies. The remark was aimed at one particular Estonian.

[Cozzie]

Any race at Spa!!!

[DazzlaF1]

Silverstone 1987 for me.

Why, simply for Mansell's superhuman performance to reel in Piquet at the end of Hangar straight with probably the best overtaking manouvere i have ever seen

[Tazio]

The best grand prix I've seen recently was France 2004.
MS on an improvised four stopper, and RB passing JT(I think) at the last corner of the final lap for P3

Silverstone 1987 for me.

Why, simply for Mansell's superhuman performance to reel in Piquet at the end of Hangar straight with probably the best overtaking manouvere i have ever seen

Not being one for the Mansell-Mania, wasn't that not so much a 'superhuman' performance as a 'fresh set of tyres' performance?

The over-taking manouvere was, in no inconsiderable part, down to the fact that Nelson's tyres were shot, where as Nigel's set had only done half the distance.

[wedge]

Spa '95

Damon Hill was outdriven by Schumi on a wet Spa. Schumi (dry) managed to hold off Hill (wets).

[Tazio]

Any race at Spa!!!
Good answer!

[ShiftingGears]

Spa '95

Damon Hill was outdriven by Schumi on a wet Spa. Schumi (dry) managed to hold off Hill (wets).

And even damaged Hills car trying to block him, what a sportsman!


Anyway theres a lot of 30's grand prixs I'd love to have seen. Simply how great the mixture of the drivers, the circuits and the cars were.

[raphael123]

The best grand prix I've seen recently was France 2004.
MS on an improvised four stopper, and RB passing JT(I think) at the last corner of the final lap for P3

lol are you serious? even if your a die-hard schumi fan there are many better races which he won that france 04!! How long have you been watching F1 for?

Anyway, I find it hard to pick. In the past decade or so which I can remember, I'd maybe go for Nurb 99 when Herbert won in a Stewart, that was a classic race, or maybe even Silverstone 01 (? When rubens won it anyway). Spa 98 was pretty immense too. These are all wet weather races, but they do tend to add some more excitment to the races. Saying that, Nurb 98 in the dry with Mika doing a Michael on Michael was mighty impressive.

I don't think you can pick one race to be honest. I'm probably forgetting loads here!

[SGWilko]

Not being one for the Mansell-Mania, wasn't that not so much a 'superhuman' performance as a 'fresh set of tyres' performance?

The over-taking manouvere was, in no inconsiderable part, down to the fact that Nelson's tyres were shot, where as Nigel's set had only done half the distance.

OK, so yes, the new tyres were a factor, but how far behind was he after he put new boots on? Surely the effect of new tyres, the rate he was using them, would have meant that, when he caught Piquet, their tyres should have been fairly comparable. After all, Mansell broke the lap record almost every lap, so he wasn't hanging about, was he?

Anyway, that's probably my best GP, or maybe Hungary 1989......

[Shifter]

From what I can judge, France '79 and/or Japan '05.

[LeonBrooke]

I'd go for the 2005 Brazil GP. JPM, my favourite GP racer, wins, and Alonso confirms the world title. I wept tears of joy when he crossed that finish line :)

[ArrowsFA1]

Not being one for the Mansell-Mania, wasn't that not so much a 'superhuman' performance as a 'fresh set of tyres' performance?
Rather similar to another "legendary" Mansell performance at Monaco in 1992 ;)

10 years earlier :eek: ...now you're talking :s mokin:

[N. Jones]

I would have to say Hungary '06 (sadly been only watching since 2004...).

It seems to me that lately there haven't been too many races that I could say were great (from reading what people have said in the past a 'great' race is one where drivers are dueling for positions all over the track - I think China in '06 was like that - there were so many battles going on the tv crew couldn't keep up!).

[BDunnell]

There are so many contenders.

Fangio's win at the Nurburgring in 1957 remains probably the greatest drive ever.

The 1967 Italian GP was stunning, for Clark's fight back after a pit stop, and the scrap between Jack Brabham and John Surtees that lasted until after the final corner of the final lap, and ended with an incredible result for Honda. Equally, the end of the 1969 Italian GP was a thriller, and '71 has already been mentioned.

And from more recent times, Japan in 2005 was genuinely electrifying.

[GJD]

Any race at Spa!!!

But not the 1939 or 1960 Grands Prix, or the 1985 1,000 km sports car race methinks.

[GJD]

I'd give my right arm to have witnessed von Brauchitsch fighting off Caracciola at Monaco in 1937 with Neubauer furiously waving him to let Carraciola through and von Bruachitsch poking his tongue out at the frantic team manager.

There again, the 1953 Italian Grand Prix must have been something to see, with Ascari, Marimon, Farina and Fangio going hammer and tongs for a goodly part of the race.

Few people mention Moss's unlikely but brilliant win in Rob Walker's Cooper in the 1958 Argentinian GP but the one I'd love to have been at most of all was his 1961 win at Monaco. If he'd driven a pole position time for each of the 100 laps he'd have finished a mere 40 seconds ahead of his actual winning time.

[Vitesse]

But not the 1939 or 1960 Grands Prix, or the 1985 1,000 km sports car race methinks.
Definitely not ....

Nor the 1958 GP de Spa.

On the subject of Manfred, I'd have loved to be at the Nürburgring in 1935 and 1938. In the latter year, it would be priceless to watch the sweat emerging on Hühnlein's brow as he desperately tried to put the right spin on his telegram to Hitler! And in '35 seeing Tazio produce his own copy of the Italian National Anthem!

[ShiftingGears]

Probably some 30's grand prix with Bernd Rosemeyer. Who could say no to this?
http://www.forix.com/8w/rosemeyer/rm1.jpg
http://www.forix.com/8w/rosemeyer/rm2.jpg
http://www.forix.com/8w/rosemeyer/rm3.jpg
http://www.forix.com/8w/rosemeyer/rm4.jpg

[GJD]

Probably some 30's grand prix with Bernd Rosemeyer. Who could say no to this?


BC Ecclestone?

[Colsanders]

The 1977 US Grand Prix West at Long Beach - but I am biased as a diehard Andretti fan.

The 1992 GP of Monaco was amazing with Senna blocking Nigel!

[Zsolt]

I'm fairly new to F1 (started watching in late 03) but my favorite might be the 2005 European GP? where Alonso fends of Schumacher for about 20-30 laps & still wins the race. Schumacher had a great fight going thru most of the field to end up in 2nd.

[Zsolt]

France 79 (which i've only seen the most common highlight) or Japan 05 too.

[Corny]

Somehow I really liked Brazil 06..
It was Michael's last.. Tenth on the grid, then the puncture, being 71 seconds behind with 50 laps or so to go and finishing something like 25 behind!

and every fight between Hakkinen and MS was good! :D

[aryan]

I only started watching F1 from late 90s, and from the ones I've seen, Japan 2005 is the one.

I've seen the last 8-9 laps of France 79, and do think those 2 pilots were super-human.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So many great races, but I think I would go for Monza 1969. I'm hoping that we could have a race like that this year with the 4 fastest cars.

In recent memory I can't recall any really good 'races' but for excitement then it would be races such as Jerez 1997, Spa 1998, Japan 2005 or even Europe 2007.


http://www.f1-hr.com/Slike/Pogled%20iznutra/raikkonen-fisichella-suzuka-2005.jpg

[BDunnell]

So many great races, but I think I would go for Monza 1969. I'm hoping that we could have a race like that this year with the 4 fastest cars.

Slipstreaming at Monza now is a bit more difficult than it was then, though.

[Mintexmemory]

Rindt in last year's model suddenly went into the 'zone' and broke lap record after lap record pursuing Brabham. On the last lap JB cracked under the pressure, left his braking too late and slid into the bales as Jochen took the lead.

[markabilly]

MONACO 1970

(alternatively any of the ones I went to in the 1960's and the 2006 and 2008 USGPs--the sight of all those cars pulling into the pits always brings a shiver.....and the 2008 US GP should be no different))

[BDunnell]

10 years earlier :eek: ...now you're talking :s mokin:

Yes, Monaco in 1982 was fantastic. There is that fantastic moment in Murray Walker's commentary where he suddenly exclaims: "De Cesaris would have taken the lead if Patrese... when Patrese... and that means to say that DEREK DALY can win this race! But Patrese could win..."

[Bezza]

Its either Donington 93 just for Senna, Hungary 97 because Hill in an Arrows almost won...but I think Spa 98 takes it - a 14 car pile up, atrocious conditions, brilliant overtaking manoeuvres, Schumi crashing into DC, almost a punch up, Hill wins for Jordan and ultimately Schumi's crash costs him the World Championship.

In dry weather, Silverstone 03 was a fantastic race.

[FIA]

Both wet races in 1999 (Magny-Cours & Nurburgring), but best dry race was Hockenheim 2000, superb win for Barrichello and a great moment.

[futuretiger9]

The 1977 US Grand Prix West at Long Beach - but I am biased as a diehard Andretti fan.



Yes, that race was a real cracker. I think Lauda and Scheckter were also very prominent. So many races from that era of F1 were memorable.

[AAReagles]

... so yeah, whats you fav race?

The 1988 German GP - only because it's the only race I've been to thus far. :( (snivel)

On the Tele: a tie - 1979 French GP/1982 Monaco GP

What event I would like to have time-travel to: 1966 Italian GP won by an Italian, in an Italian car. What a party that must have been... as noted by one of our members who once mentioned being there to savor the moment...
otherwise 1967 Italian GP, for obvious J. Clark reasons.

[futuretiger9]

The 1988 German GP - only because it's the only race I've been to thus far. :( (snivel)

On the Tele: a tie - 1979 French GP/1982 Monaco GP

What event I would like to have time-travel to: 1966 Italian GP won by an Italian, in an Italian car. What a party that must have been... as noted by one of our members who once mentioned being there to savor the moment...
otherwise 1967 Italian GP, for obvious J. Clark reasons.

I've seen some wonderful TV footage of the 1967 Italian GP. It perfectly captured the sheer excitement and tension of the day. Just think of the line-up of drivers battling it out. Clark, Brabham, Surtees, G Hill, Hulme etc. It still amazes me to think what Clark achieved that day. Possibly the greatest ever feat of driving in F1 along with Fangio's 1957 German GP.

[BDunnell]

I've seen some wonderful TV footage of the 1967 Italian GP. It perfectly captured the sheer excitement and tension of the day.

Indeed it does — though often the film doesn't seem to match the commentary! Raymond Baxter's commentary of the fight into and out of the Parabolica on the last lap is tremendous.

"Jack Brabham coming through on the inside, on the Brabham — fiercely snaking under the braking, it's Jack Brabham who takes the lead! Jack Brabham leads John Surtees, but John Surtees comes back on the inside, and it's John Surtees who re-takes the lead. As they come up out of the South Curve, the two cars are virtually neck-and-neck but it's John Surtees ahead of Jack Brabham, and Jack Brabham pulls out, and Surtees wins!"

[ShiftingGears]

Its a pity how Monza is kinda awful and worse for the racing after the chicanes were put in. One thing that F1 lacks now is circuits that are good for slipstreaming around the whole lap, eg the old Monza, Spa and Reims circuits. I think F1 needs more varied racing circuits, personally.

[markabilly]

I've seen some wonderful TV footage of the 1967 Italian GP. It perfectly captured the sheer excitement and tension of the day. Just think of the line-up of drivers battling it out. Clark, Brabham, Surtees, G Hill, Hulme etc. It still amazes me to think what Clark achieved that day. Possibly the greatest ever feat of driving in F1 along with Fangio's 1957 German GP.


Indeed it does — though often the film doesn't seem to match the commentary! Raymond Baxter's commentary of the fight into and out of the Parabolica on the last lap is tremendous.

"Jack Brabham coming through on the inside, on the Brabham — fiercely snaking under the braking, it's Jack Brabham who takes the lead! Jack Brabham leads John Surtees, but John Surtees comes back on the inside, and it's John Surtees who re-takes the lead. As they come up out of the South Curve, the two cars are virtually neck-and-neck but it's John Surtees ahead of Jack Brabham, and Jack Brabham pulls out, and Surtees wins!"



No question in my mind---Also the greatest performance by any F1 driver...

Clark had pole and was leading when he had a puncture. Unlike now, pit stops were death for any chance of a victory. He pits, the tire change takes forever, and rejoins in 16th, a lap down, from the lead. He drives pole lap times for the remainder of the race and re-takes the lead, making up an entire lap. Unfortunately, the gas needed for such speed was miscalulated, and and on the last lap, sputters and finishes third, leaving Surtees and Brabbham to battle it out, less than a car length seperating them at the end.

And this was a high speed track, before wings which made the car more stable on fast corners, where the cars were very much on the outer edge of traction and control on very fast coners.

Since then nothing close.

[Rollo]

Adelaide 1986 had things happen at critical moments which changed the complexion of the World Championship in the most spectacularly visual fashion.
Watching Mansell struggle with that Williams was disappointing, but Prost was a worthy winner that year.

The 1987 British GP saw Mansell claw back well over 5 seconds towards the end of the race including a move of bravery on Piquet.

One of those two?

[Valve Bounce]

How about that race where Gilles and Rene battled it out for the minor placings? :eek:
Can somebody give us a link once more, please.

Why do I ask?? Found it in one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Fxah19AWo

[Valve Bounce]

I wish I could have been at the the A.D. 67 Olympic Games where the Roman Emperor Nero raced a ten-horse chariot and nearly died after being thrown from it, but was crowned Olympic Champion nevertheless. :)

Do you have a link for the vid??

[AAReagles]

One thing that F1 lacks now is circuits that are good for slipstreaming around the whole lap, eg the old Monza, Spa and Reims circuits. I think F1 needs more varied racing circuits, personally.

:up: Agreed. Which is another reason why I'm not so bothered about missing a race these days... or perhaps I should say for the past 10 or so years.

[Bezza]

:up: Agreed. Which is another reason why I'm not so bothered about missing a race these days... or perhaps I should say for the past 10 or so years.

You should just go and watch Indy Cars or NASCAR then! Lots of slipstreaming there. F1 is about corners, AAR, and you know that ;) Getting rid of this traction control is a good step but they also need somehow to reduce the effects of following another car whilst cornering, to allow closer racing.

[AAReagles]

F1 is about corners, AAR, and you know that ;) Getting rid of this traction control is a good step but they also need somehow to reduce the effects of following another car whilst cornering, to allow closer racing.

Well yah, I don't wan't to see them running on ovals of course, but I would like to have seen some circuits with lengthy straightaways, like Reims.

I'd also like to see FIA ban the semi-auto gearbox too, so that there's the possibility of a driver missing a shift once in a while.

Also I'm not big on pit-stops as a substitute to make for 'closer' racing. Open the lanes up with less chicanes. :)

[LeonBrooke]

The circuits have chicanes for driver safety, and I don't think it's unreasonable to take them away and make the circuits more dangerous simply to improve the racing. Perhaps a solution similar to that adopted on the Champcar - having the bulk of the downforce generated by the diffusor rather than the wings in an effort to clean up the wake - might help.

Anyway, I don't think there's anything wrong with the racing. Skilled drivers can still overtake - I was watching Alonso, Heidfeld and Sato today.

[Ranger]

Skilled drivers can still overtake - I was watching Alonso, Heidfeld and Sato today.

Skill is not the most important factor in passing, unless its in the wet, and even then there are set-up issues that contribute to passing or being passed. The most important factor is in the speed differential in the two cars, which is caused by either a fuel load difference or on the cars themselves (i.e. a Ferrari and a Spyker... which car will get past?).

The fuel load thing is pretty much why Hamilton went from a mile behind to being 3rd at one point in Brazil... because he was 3-stopping compared to 2-stopping like mostly everyone else.

[LeonBrooke]

My point was that there's not much wrong with the racing in my opinion. There is still overtaking - I'm thinking of things like the battle between Alonso and Heidfeld at Bahrain. Of course wet weather and different fuel loads help but it's not necessary.

Of course something should be done to the cars - I think increasing the proportion of downforce produced by the diffuser. But I think it's unreasonable to do anything to the circuits - safety cannot be compromised in any way.

[Ranger]

But I think it's unreasonable to do anything to the circuits - safety cannot be compromised in any way.

If it's unreasonable to do anything to the circuits then why were the chicanes put there in the first place?? Next thing that will happen is that they'll turn the 130R at Suzuka into a chicane...

I'm all for improvements in barriers and run-off areas and the like... But in the end, motorsport is inherently dangerous and no amount of track alteration will get rid of that fact.

The racing is alright, in my opinion. Still not really enough of it where it counts though, and not really as good as it has been. There's room for improvement.

[AAReagles]

I'm all for improvements in barriers and run-off areas and the like... But in the end, motorsport is inherently dangerous and no amount of track alteration will get rid of that fact.

The racing is alright, in my opinion. Still not really enough of it where it counts though, and not really as good as it has been. There's room for improvement.

Ditto and... ditto. :up:

I don't like watching GP cars racing on Go-Kart tracks (France, Hungary). Sorry, about my exageration, but that's how I feel.

Like you say, there's room for improvement, so put in more run-off areas.

[LeonBrooke]

If it's unreasonable to do anything to the circuits then why were the chicanes put there in the first place?? Next thing that will happen is that they'll turn the 130R at Suzuka into a chicane...

I'm all for improvements in barriers and run-off areas and the like... But in the end, motorsport is inherently dangerous and no amount of track alteration will get rid of that fact.

The racing is alright, in my opinion. Still not really enough of it where it counts though, and not really as good as it has been. There's room for improvement.

130R isn't a dangerous corner.

But if we're talking about circuits like Monza, getting rid of the chicanes to improve the racing is, in my opinion, a very bad thing if it compromises safety. No doubt if they removed the chicanes the teams would find a way to make the cars go 20mph faster down the straights, which would make it much more dangerous.

Obviously it's possible to run laps at 230mph perfectly safely (look at IRL), but not at Monza. But would removing the chicanes improve the racing at all? I think it would be a good idea to move the walls right back and replace the gravel traps with high-grip paint, and you'd improve things no end.

[ShiftingGears]

130R isn't a dangerous corner.


The FIA seemed to think so...it was made easier after McNish's crash in 2003, which is why it's a double radius corner now. It's just a shame when people can't accept the inherent risk and danger of motor racing, especially when it leads to a compromise in driver challenge. It is, after all, a series for the best racing drivers.

[markabilly]

The FIA seemed to think so...it was made easier after McNish's crash in 2003, which is why it's a double radius corner now. It's just a shame when people can't accept the inherent risk and danger of motor racing, especially when it leads to a compromise in driver challenge. It is, after all, a series for the best racing drivers.
Actually it was not a really dangerous corner by itself, but because of what happened if one ran off the course--like the corkscrew they should have left it alone, and worked on removing what causes the real problem, the off track stuff in the way.

[markabilly]

Obviously it's possible to run laps at 230mph perfectly safely (look at IRL), but not at Monza. .
When MS was asked why not Indy 500, he said too dangerous and too much potential for ending up dead when hitting the walls.

Far more drivers have been crippled and seriously mangled, sufferred head injuries, and died with IRL racing than in F1 in the last 15 years. i cannot name them all..... but if you add champ cars on ovals, the number is very high compared to the number in F1 which is practically zero after Senna's death.

And those deaths have included far too many spectators and corner workers than in F1 for the last 15 years

[LeonBrooke]

When MS was asked why not Indy 500, he said too dangerous and too much potential for ending up dead when hitting the walls.

Far more drivers have been crippled and seriously mangled, sufferred head injuries, and died with IRL racing than in F1 in the last 15 years. i cannot name them all..... but if you add champ cars on ovals, the number is very high compared to the number in F1 which is practically zero after Senna's death.

And those deaths have included far too many spectators and corner workers than in F1 for the last 15 years

Well true, but the most recent death in the IRL followed a collision when one car hit another in the side. When you see drivers losing it and hitting the wall (which they do with alarming regularity) they're doing high speeds they usually hit it with a glancing blow. On a proper circuit with left and right turns you're much more likely to hit something head-on, so it makes sense to keep the speeds down as much as possible.

As for 130R, it's still challenging enough. Anything in F1 is still challenging enough.

And Squirrel: We have to work to make racing as safe as possible. We can't just say, "oh well, we know this circuit/corner is dangerous, but we can't change it becuse that'll take away from the spectacle/driver challenge," as it seems to me you're suggesting. It's totally unacceptable to risk life in the name of sport. I know motorsport is dangerous but there are ways to make it safer. I think the first step would be to remove all walls from around tracks (except Monaco for obvious reasons, not that you go fast enough to get hurt there in a modern car anyway).

[Ranger]

It's totally unacceptable to risk life in the name of sport. I know motorsport is dangerous but there are ways to make it safer.
Then let me ask you what you think about the recent banning of Traction Control.

Is that completely unacceptable because certain drivers think that it is much more dangerous than before and therefore compromises safety, and therefore should be overturned?

[LeonBrooke]

I think it's a bad idea because it's a contrived and, in my opinion, unnecessary method to improve the racing which harms the purity of the cars as highly technically sophisticated racing cars. Yes, it may make the sport less safe, and it's a bad idea because of that, but that's not my main objection. Plus I predict there'll be more complaining by teams of other teams cheating and concealing illegal software on the standard ECUs, or something...

[ShiftingGears]

Well true, but the most recent death in the IRL followed a collision when one car hit another in the side. When you see drivers losing it and hitting the wall (which they do with alarming regularity) they're doing high speeds they usually hit it with a glancing blow. On a proper circuit with left and right turns you're much more likely to hit something head-on, so it makes sense to keep the speeds down as much as possible.

As for 130R, it's still challenging enough. Anything in F1 is still challenging enough.

And Squirrel: We have to work to make racing as safe as possible. We can't just say, "oh well, we know this circuit/corner is dangerous, but we can't change it becuse that'll take away from the spectacle/driver challenge," as it seems to me you're suggesting. It's totally unacceptable to risk life in the name of sport. I know motorsport is dangerous but there are ways to make it safer. I think the first step would be to remove all walls from around tracks (except Monaco for obvious reasons, not that you go fast enough to get hurt there in a modern car anyway).

I think it is acceptable to risk life for sport. It is the drivers who choose motorsport as a profession, and by doing that they are accepting the risks inherent within the challenge of motorsport. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

Senna's death was a tragedy but it was a complete overreaction to put chicanes in every challenging corner, eg Eau Rouge. The challenge of true drivers circuits that test the drivers ability to the limit is why I watch motorsport. Eg circuits like Phillip Island, Bathurst, and the Nordschliefe. Most circuits in F1 are ordinary because the challenge has been taken away from them, making them less about the driving ability of the driver and more about the car. Even in Spa the drivers aren't punished to a greater extent when they run off the circuit because theres no wall after La Source, and all the gravel traps are now tarmac. However there have been great safety innovations in the last ten years that do not involve taking away the essence of challenge in the highest level of motor racing, and I fully support that.

[markabilly]

I think it is acceptable to risk life for sport. It is the drivers who choose motorsport as a profession, and by doing that they are accepting the risks inherent within the challenge of motorsport. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

Senna's death was a tragedy but it was a complete overreaction to put chicanes in every challenging corner, eg Eau Rouge. The challenge of true drivers circuits that test the drivers ability to the limit is why I watch motorsport. Eg circuits like Phillip Island, Bathurst, and the Nordschliefe. Most circuits in F1 are ordinary because the challenge has been taken away from them, making them less about the driving ability of the driver and more about the car. Even in Spa the drivers aren't punished to a greater extent when they run off the circuit because theres no wall after La Source, and all the gravel traps are now tarmac. However there have been great safety innovations in the last ten years that do not involve taking away the essence of challenge in the highest level of motor racing, and I fully support that.

Exactly, and make no mistake that fast cars on any track are dangerous. Even in pitlane---and I am amazed more people have not been hurt or killed during the craziness of pit stops.

Indeed, cars and bikes on a street at the usual heavily regulated speed limits are dangerous as well. Too many people, indeed entire families, die for too many stupid reasons

And if it is to be a driver's championship, then the driver ought to have something to do with the throtttle other than just slamming it on.

Motogp is the same way now. At Seca this year, the "wild card" riders from the superbikes and so forth running in America, were stunned at how easy it was in motogp....the braking is tough to get used to, but at the apex, all you do is crank the throttle to the max and hold on. Do it on a superbike and crash without question.

Some say that willingness and confidence is why Stoner has done so well in 2007, while that human magic with the throttle is one reason why Rossi and other were so good before 2007 (and Stoner as a youngster was no where near challenging those guys before 2007) Yank off traction control from Motogp, and I suspicion Stoner will go back to being a crazy fast rider who crashes a lot, while true talent like Rossi will be back to dominating....

So my vote is for the driver to control it all!!!!
If he can not then he should be replaced by someone who can.

[Whyzars]

Australian Grand Prix, Adelaide 1988. My first Grand Prix as a spectator.

That was when public were allowed to get close enough that we could 'feel' the cars pass by. You actually needed the ear plugs in those days with the turbo engines. I've been to many Grands Prix since but none have had the feeling of that race in Adelaide. If memory serves it was the last race with the turbo's as well (I could be mistaken about this).

Although I was well plastered by the end of the race I know that Prost won with Senna a long way back in second. Anyway it was special for me and a race that I will never forget.

[LeonBrooke]

I think it is acceptable to risk life for sport. It is the drivers who choose motorsport as a profession, and by doing that they are accepting the risks inherent within the challenge of motorsport. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

Senna's death was a tragedy but it was a complete overreaction to put chicanes in every challenging corner, eg Eau Rouge. The challenge of true drivers circuits that test the drivers ability to the limit is why I watch motorsport. Eg circuits like Phillip Island, Bathurst, and the Nordschliefe. Most circuits in F1 are ordinary because the challenge has been taken away from them, making them less about the driving ability of the driver and more about the car. Even in Spa the drivers aren't punished to a greater extent when they run off the circuit because theres no wall after La Source, and all the gravel traps are now tarmac. However there have been great safety innovations in the last ten years that do not involve taking away the essence of challenge in the highest level of motor racing, and I fully support that.

I think we're all agreed that there is no such thing as a dangerous corner, merely dangerous stuff you hit when you go off, so I agree that putting chicanes everywhere following Senna's death was an over-reaction. However, I only started following F1 in 2003 so the circuits they used then are what I think of as the definitive circuits. Yes, I've seen footage from the past but honestly I struggle to see how it's any less challenging these days.

Eau Rouge can still be a challenge without the risk of hitting a grave trap if you get it wrong.

[Osella]

I can only comment on races I've seen, but I would say Monaco 1996 as one of the best. That race had everything, including the surprise winner. Those of you suggesting Hungary '97 should remember Monaco '96.

Then there was Monaco 1997, pretty similar (except the surprise winner, but a great race ;) )! And Spa 1995, Nurburgring 2007, Nurburgring 1995 and 1999(!!!) Poor Luca Badoer crying.. :( Adelaide 1995 was pretty damn excellent too if anyone remembers that one? Ditto Spain 1991, Schumacher and Mansell's performances were great! Also, Spa 1991 was pretty tense if you were watching De Cesaris ;)

Also, as has been mentioned before, Adelaide 1986 was one of the very best!

[Norwegian Blue]

Brazil 2003 was kinda fun...good winner too!

[SGWilko]

Senna's death could have been avoided if the wall was moved away from the circuit.

I find it icredulous to read that the wall could not be moved because of a river - can we not build over rivers these days?

Oh, let me guess, the tree huggers would go nuts if the Imola circuit were to cut a tree, or build over a river......

[LeonBrooke]

I heard an interview with someone (Gerhard Berger?) saying that he and Senna had been advocating moving the wall until they saw the river. But I agree: they could have demolished the wall and built a platform over the wall and put in a huge gravel trap. Any human life is worth more than a river.

[Osella]

I heard an interview with someone (Gerhard Berger?) saying that he and Senna had been advocating moving the wall until they saw the river. But I agree: they could have demolished the wall and built a platform over the wall and put in a huge gravel trap. Any human life is worth more than a river.

It was Berger, but the situation at Monza (National Park) is that they cannot move the circuit or run-off much due to the trees, as they cannot be cut down. Whether the situation at Imola is the same or not I do not know, but Senna's death could have been avoided if a piece of suspension had not bounced back and pierced his helmet...so it was a pretty freak injury in all honesty, and the wall at Villeneuve wasn't really close to the track when Ratzenberger (hmm, remember him people?) died...so it's not neccessarily that simple.

Anyway, this thread is about the greatest race ever, not Senna again!

[LeonBrooke]

It was the same at Imola too - it's on a tribute DVD I've got - an interview with Berger where he talks about how he and Senna had been having a look at the track following Barrichello's accident, and had looked at the wall at Tamburello. He said they both thought it was dangerous where it was but when they looked behind it and saw the river, they thought, "we can't move the wall, it'll destroy the river", so they didn't mention it to anyone.

[woody2goody]

Belgium 1998, Nurburgring '99, '07, Brazil '03, Britain '03, Hungary '06, Australia '03 was pretty exciting too.

[Lemmy-Boy]

Belgium 1998, Nurburgring '99, '07, Brazil '03, Britain '03, Hungary '06, Australia '03 was pretty exciting too.

I agree. The 1998 Belgium GP was very exciting! Lots of rain, Great Crashes, Great Passes, Plenty of Controversy, and a bitch session between Schumi and Coulthard.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qKbQQA_8BnE

[woody2goody]

That race was fantastic great fun and great podium finishers.

The 'ring '99 was amazing so many people had chances to win including Frentzen, Fisichella, Coulthard and I think R. Schumacher.

[Osella]

Fisi and Coulthard both chucked it away, Ralf was the 'moral' winner as his car broke IIRC, but don't forget Johnny Herbert, who actually won the race ;)

[woody2goody]

Oh yeah it was a great day for Stewart with Rubens third I think.

If I remember rightly it was Trulli who came second.

That was his only podium until 2003!

[Jimmy Linn]

Belgium 98, Europe 99, Britain 03 & Suzuka 05!!!

Those stand out for me