Team-orders - Hirvonen/Bosse?

[Magnus]

Do you think Hirvonen will ease a little bit on the gas to help Bosse get an extra gap to Loeb in the championship standings? Do you think he should do it? Do you think Wilson would like to "help" Bosse in this way?

It is probably not the last time of the season that we will see a situation of the kind which is developing right now, and considering the even pace Bosse and Loeb from time to time puts up, those two points may be cruical for Bosses carreer.

[Buzz Lightyear]

how could hirvonen possilby ease back enough to be between marcus and seb? i think no... go for it. better 1,2 than 1,3 or even 2,3 if not judged right.

[Mickey T]

if it is still a relevant question at the last service on sunday afternoon, i'm sure he will be told to ease off then.

while loeb is around and his car is fit and fast, i doubt he'll be told to do anything except what he is doing.

[N.O.T]

The way the situation is now No way !! Its too risky...but if Gronholm pulls a safe lead from Loeb abd Hirvonen is still 1st then yes.

[JAM]

If things mantain this way, they probably let the boy fight for the victroy, but if Loeb overtakes him... probably they sent him to the 3rd place. Bosse e boss :D I want to see Hirvonen fighting for the victory, is fair.

[1LM1]

Hirvonen is ahead of Marcus because of road position. Marcus won't need any team order to overtake him after the 2 first stages of tomorrow morning.

Mikko is doing a great job though.

[jonkka]

Hirvonen is ahead of Marcus because of road position.

Say what? :eek: Are we talking about the same rally here?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Hirvonen has to show what he's got!

[JAM]

Hirvonen has to show what he's got!

He only show it if they let him show. right?

[1LM1]

Say what? :eek: Are we talking about the same rally here?

Why do you say different ?
There is a lot of snow. Loeb and Marcus are struggling because of that. Hirvonen is third on the road and it's an advantage.

[1LM1]

But I want to say that I am one more time impressed by what Mikko is showing.

[Roy]

But I want to say that I am one more time impressed by what Mikko is showing.

This is the 'real' Mikko. This is the same what he did in 2005. Fast in the Focus in Sardinia and Acropolis.
But I am a little afraid. Loeb is learning faster than both BP- Ford drivers. Gronholm has a problem. He lose a lot of time. I think he is frustrating that he is not fighting for 1st-2nd place, but 1st-2nd-3rd. Loeb and Hirvonen are both faster.

I am most impressed by Latvala time's. Pitty he has problem in service. He can reach a good result. Two long day's left.

[White Sauron]

Why do you say different ?
There is a lot of snow. Loeb and Marcus are struggling because of that. Hirvonen is third on the road and it's an advantage.

There's almost no difference between 2nd (Gro) and 3rd (Hirvi). 2nd and 6th - yes, but not 2nd and 3rd. Hirvonen can stay in the lead. You didn't believe in him after the first day in Australia, but he did make it to the victory. But that time everyone said that he was helped by his road position too. And yet, he beat Solberg fair and square. Why don't you trust him again?

[1LM1]

I was just comparing his pace to Marcus' and Loeb's.
I trust him. He is very impressive and he is proving that he is better than Henning (even in Norway!).
What I wanted to say is that I don't think he will be able to match Marcus pace tomorrow.
He is not equal with Marcus yet IMHO. But the truth is he is just behind now.

Mikko is very good.

[Tomi]

agree with not, there is not much space now for teamorders

[Magnus]

Nah: Hirvonen is not as good as Bosse by far, those last seconds, which Bosse leads over him by, in almost every rally, means, except for talent: experience, experience and experience. Hirvonen is very good though, and I am impressed. Men en gång är ingen gång: två gånger är en gång gång.

[Tomi]

Sure Mikko has still much to learn, but today he showed that he is on right way, the most important thing is that he leads by driving, not by someones missfortune, those are small things but gives confidense and shows Mikko that Loeb and Bosse eat same bread them too.
I belive this make some guys see him as a driver too, the same goes for Latvala quality stuff he also.

[White Sauron]

Ok... There's one thing that is very important not only in a rally, but in life too. No matter how strong someone is, no matter how experienced they is, there's always someone younger, though with less experience, who comes and beats stars. That was with Gronholm (though he wasn't that young) when he just cam and won in Sweden in 2000. That happened with Solberg, when (still learning) he won in GB in 2002. That happened to Loeb, who won in Germany that year. There're situations when not those, who have more experience, win. And rally Norway is just on of these cases. Mikko is showing what he's capable of. And if there's any place for someone young and talented to beat Loeb in a direct fight, it must be here. And Mikko knows it. And he'll be pushing to the victory. As was said in HISTORY... there comes the time... when new heroes come...

[noel157]

I was just comparing his pace to Marcus' and Loeb's.
I trust him. He is very impressive and he is proving that he is better than Henning (even in Norway!).
What I wanted to say is that I don't think he will be able to match Marcus pace tomorrow.
He is not equal with Marcus yet IMHO. But the truth is he is just behind now.

Mikko is very good.

Mikko is good, very good but not in the same class as Marcus. Tomorrow is "moving" day (as they say in Golf) for Marcus.

[xavier]

Why do you say different ?
There is a lot of snow. Loeb and Marcus are struggling because of that. Hirvonen is third on the road and it's an advantage.


Seb was saying the poistion was a problem mainly on the stage they repeated today, because of the group N tracks. I dont think there was much difference between 2nd and 3rd.

Marcus was just not a very good day, I think (or Mikko in a very good one).

anyway it's too early for team orders. On Sunday we'll see... I just hope that if it's a 1-2 ford that they Ford will not ask Mikko to let Marcus pass him. It would be a much more impressive win than Australia for Mikko.

[COD]

There is 2/3 of the rally left. This question is only relevant late on sunday, if they are 1-2 or 2-3 or whatever and IF Mikko is ahead. Depends also how close the next one would be.

So let's wait and see if there is any to give order. Ford for sure will not give Citroen or Loeb any free points. Better for them if Mikko is ahead of Loeb, even if that would mean being ahead of Marcus as well

[jidoka]

Team orders?

Loeb 1.8s behind Gronholm?

I think chickens are being counted before they hatch.....

[tmx]

its a long way to go, i dont think the two big guns will let him go so easily. i dotn think loeb and gronholm is showing the fastest speed yet. he would have to fight very hard if he want the first place.

i dont think there should be team order if he is ahead of gronholm, that would be unfair.

[Roy]

its a long way to go, i dont think the two big guns will let him go so easily. i dotn think loeb and gronholm is showing the fastest speed yet. he would have to fight very hard if he want the first place.

i dont think there should be team order if he is ahead of gronholm, that would be unfair.
I don't no if there will be teamorders. With this time no way! But it is possible they have that in their contract or they have gentleman agreement for this case.
In 2000 Acropolis Rally Sainz slow down in first place, so McRae pass him. Colin was first man by Ford that year and was in fight for the drivers title. This year Marcus is the first driver. It is possible we see the same this rally/year.

[Ranger]

15 seconds back to Gronholm, with Loeb about 2 seconds back from that.

Team orders at this point would be an incredibly stupid idea.

Though later in the rally it is not impossible.

[newaddict]

Mikko is good, very good but not in the same class as Marcus. Tomorrow is "moving" day (as they say in Golf) for Marcus.

i play golf and have been thinking of that term to apply to rallying
you have properly done it
thanks


day two is the "make a move" or "hold out for other retirements" day.

[koko0703]

I don't think there will be a team order in Norway because

1. Ford is mainly interested in manufacturers' title
2. At this early stage of season, Mikko has as good possibility as Marcus to take the driver's title.

[pino]

I just hope Ford will allow Mikko to win...he deserve it...so far he's been amazing !!! :up:

[Karukera]

I don't think there will be a team order in Norway because

1. Ford is mainly interested in manufacturers' title
2. At this early stage of season, Mikko has as good possibility as Marcus to take the driver's title.

3. They're gentlemen at Ford and that would be horribly unfair

[1LM1]

What's going on with Hirvonen ?

I 've changed my mind. Mikko is even faster than what I thought yesterday.

[Brother John]

Mikko has shown already that he is TOP, don´t forget he is driver number2 in the team! I don´t like It if there is team orders but Wilson is the BOSS!

I like to hear Loeb to nag and complains today! :D
In Norway it´s a slower rally as Sweden and Finland, thats exact what rally is about. Here you see the best drivers! It´s not only the high speed that we need! Look at Mikko and Toni, Galli and............. That are the real future top drivers! Stop talking about the speed from the C4, Focus...... Talk about rally drivers and rally!

[White Sauron]

"Loeb won SS10 to keep himself within half a minute of Hirvonen, but the Finn said that he was cautious on the stage, and he is confident that he can keep the world champion at bay."

You know... After these words... I start to think, that if all goes like this... Marcus will help Mikko to win. I'm sure.

[WRC2006]

At this stage I think team order would be a stupid idea.

There is a big gap between Marcus and Hivronen and small gap between Marcus and Loeb. So no one could take that risk in Ford while already the 2 focus are on provisional podium. Unless Mikko has problem today and has to slow down or loose time otherwise no team orders. It may be difficult to control and a risk for ford to loose the 1st position. Remember loeb is the king in playing with split time and he can take an advantage easily.

But I accept that if Loeb keep pushing, Marcus will have order to keep him behind which will be an advantage to Mikko so Ford can finish 1st and 2nd tomorrow.

[Roy]

Team orders!
No fighting anymore. Hirvonen and Gronholm drive 'easy' tommorow.

Gronholm: "...But it wouldn't be clever for me to attack tomorrow. I want to win but it would be stupid to take risks when Ford is lying first and second. I also have to think of the drivers' championship and with Loeb out of the points, it makes sense for me to aim for second. But tomorrow will be hard because we have to tackle the three most difficult stages of the rally for a second time."

Today was a perfect birthday present for Team Director Malcolm Wilson. "Both Mikko and Marcus did a fantastic job. It's crucial that we bag these points so early in the season both for Ford and in the drivers' championship. Both know what they have to do. I have told them to hold position and not attack each other. They must not make mistakes and the final leg will be far from easy," he said.

http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/en/headlines/news/detail/070217181129.shtml

[M5]

It will be trippel Ford on the podium tomorrow ! The last one being Orange !

[jens]

Well. In 2000 Ford asked even Sainz to slow down to hand McRae a win. So the argument that Mikko is also theoretically in the title hunt, doesn't count much at the moment. In 2000 Carlos was even ahead in the points before the team orders were used!

[jens]

No team orders as it turned out, so I got it wrong. :)

[A.F.F.]

Me too. Gladly :)

[Halvis]

No team orders as it turned out, so I got it wrong. :)

Well, I don't agree 100 %. There were no team orders to get Marcus the victory, but there were team orders to keep their places. I think Marcus could have done it if he was allowed to try!

[White Sauron]

Well, I don't agree 100 %. There were no team orders to get Marcus the victory, but there were team orders to keep their places. I think Marcus could have done it if he was allowed to try!

I'd argue with you on this, cause had Marcus pushed, Mikko would have pushed too. Even Gronholm acknowledged this at the press-conference.

[Brother John]

Hahahaha Team orders for Bosse. :laugh: And you believe in Santa also!!!! :D

[DonJippo]

Hahahaha Team orders for Bosse. :laugh: And you believe in Santa also!!!! :D

Not anymore...but don't have any reasons not to believe Bosse.

[Halvis]

I'd argue with you on this, cause had Marcus pushed, Mikko would have pushed too. Even Gronholm acknowledged this at the press-conference.

Of course Mikko would have pushed too - but somehow I have a feeling that Marcus would have found that extra speed needed.

[COD]

Marcus seemend really unhappy about the decision not to let them fight. He said in next rallies he will fight till the end 110%. Although he said he understands that this was probably the best solution for the team and him for the championship when Loeb was ut of the points.

So there were teamorders, just not the kind most of you expected...

[A.F.F.]

Yep. I agree. Marcus wasn't all to happy.

[Tomi]

Lol, yes not so happy, but i belive after a few days he thinks already different, after all he had 1,5 day to catch Mikko.

[Roy]

Hahahaha Team orders for Bosse. :laugh: And you believe in Santa also!!!! :D

This is what I called teamorders:
Malcolm Wilson:
"I have told them to hold position and not attack each other."

see post 34 http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=203049&postcount=34

[Brother John]

Not anymore...but don't have any reasons not to believe Bosse.

We will never know what is decided in the team!
I was just written this because it was so comic for me to read here som posts about TEAM ORDERS!!! :laugh:

[jacko]

In Norway it´s a slower rally as Sweden and Finland, thats exact what rally is about. Here you see the best drivers! It´s not only the high speed that we need! Look at Mikko and Toni, Galli and............. That are the real future top drivers! Stop talking about the speed from the C4, Focus...... Talk about rally drivers and rally!

When i saw the on-board action and the action from the Helicopter.. man there's still a lot of speed, really beuatiful action and brings the best of the best from the drivers! About the slower events; i really liked Cyprus aswell, it was a bit different than greece. Hopefully there will be a rotation system which brings every year klet's say 5 different events as the year before.

[jacko]

About team-orders; at this stage of the championship it was a bit stupid to let Marcus pass. Mikko deserved this position and this win will give him for sure the boost he needs to close the gap with the best and both ford drives can make some pressure on loeb if one fails.. Sordo is not in that level on gravel, so in Ford's interest this is the best solution i think in long term, Marcus is waked up and we will be extreme agressive i think in Mexico :)