Webber V Vettel no white wash yet

[CNR]

7 races in and the points are vettel ahead by 1.5 points but this may not be the case if the Malaysian had not been washed out mark would have got 3 points and they would be equal on points

[race_director]

7 races in and the points are vettel ahead by 1.5 points but this may not be the case if the Malaysian had not been washed out mark would have got 3 points and they would be equal on points

no use complaining bro. MAD MAX ( MAX A.K.A pu****) is the boss now days

[Hondo]

It's enjoyable seeing Mark in a good car for a change.

[Tumbo]

Well at the start of the season I was hoping for big things given that w/ the new regulations, new car and Vettel onboard Red Bull were in a good position but w/ respect to Mark thought he was done. I felt he had to many brain fades and just wouldn't be able to keep the car on the line and would start his usual blame the car not himself for the failures (bit like a certain pariah of the circuit has been blasted for in recent weeks ;) ) but as a Red Bull fan and being from Canberra (just next to Queanbeyan) i'm VERY happy to have been proved incorrect. I still don't think he has that extra bit needed to climb to the top of the podium without some luck falling his way w/ other drivers retiring but he is definitely a podium contender and has really come out of his shell this yr - and of course being in RBR it's good that my doubts have been thoroughly washed away

[tintop]

I hope that Mark gets energized by being this close. Vettel will likely have a lot of cracks at the title, but this might realistically be Mark's last chance.

[gloomyDAY]

Vettel would probably be further ahead in points if it wasn't for his inexperience. Mark has the upper hand in that arena and his patience along with determination have allowed Webber to shine.

Seb needs a little more time with an F1 car under his belt. The crash with Kubica in Australia (resulting in a stupid penalty), stalling the car at Malaysia and lastly his crash at Monaco have all been point scoring opportunities. Once he settles down Webber will have a handful.

One more thing...can someone tell me who's better at qualifying? :D

[ShiftingGears]

Vettel would probably be further ahead in points if it wasn't for his inexperience. Mark has the upper hand in that arena and his patience along with determination have allowed Webber to shine.

Seb needs a little more time with an F1 car under his belt. The crash with Kubica in Australia (resulting in a stupid penalty), stalling the car at Malaysia and lastly his crash at Monaco have all been point scoring opportunities. Once he settles down Webber will have a handful.

One more thing...can someone tell me who's better at qualifying? :D

Depends who has the lightest fuel load :p :

[gloomyDAY]

Depends who has the lightest fuel load :p :You didn't answer my question. :p

[davidalbert]

Vettel has qualified lighter than Webber at every race when they have both made it to Q3, except Spain where they were the same weight, and yes he out qualified him.
I'm looking forward to the remainder of the season as Webber's leg is getting stonger and his confidence is growing all the time.
Whatever the outcome it's a great combination. Go redbull.

[52Paddy]

Despite Webber's good form this year, I can't help thinking that the only title he'll rob before his career ends is that of Chris Amon: "Best F1 driver without a win" or alternatively "Most unlucky F1 driver."

[f1kid1987]

"Best F1 driver without a win"

Na he'll win a race before the end of the season.

[Sonic]

I'm thrilled for Mark. He's a top bloke and finally after years of pushing around wheelbarrows at last he has a decent car. The only strange thing is that as a recognised qually specialist its odd that its been his race performances that have been the most impressive thing about his season so far.

[ShiftingGears]

You didn't answer my question. :p

If you want to judge them based on fuel corrected qualifying, be my guest :D

[Garry Walker]

Vettel would probably be further ahead in points if it wasn't for his inexperience. Mark has the upper hand in that arena and his patience along with determination have allowed Webber to shine.

Seb needs a little more time with an F1 car under his belt. The crash with Kubica in Australia (resulting in a stupid penalty), stalling the car at Malaysia and lastly his crash at Monaco have all been point scoring opportunities. Once he settles down Webber will have a handful.

One more thing...can someone tell me who's better at qualifying? :D

Webber has also had a lot of bad luck - taken out on first lap at Australia, blocked in Q1 at Bahrain. But Vettel has only himself to blame for his mistakes.

[I am evil Homer]

And all with a dodgy leg too ;)

[Cooper_S]

Yes indeed the 32 years, 9 months and 14 day old is really putting all his 130 race experience to good use against the 21 years, 11 months and 9 days old with just 34 races under his belt... of course Vettel may have 2 more wins than Mark and 3 more poles than him but well done all the same Mark...

You may never be WDC but you're a sound bloke and may yet have a Buttonesq revival... just hang on in there

[ioan]

I hope that Mark gets energized by being this close. Vettel will likely have a lot of cracks at the title, but this might realistically be Mark's last chance.

They have no chance whatsoever this year for the drivers title, maybe the constructors one given how poor Ruby is driving every 2nd GP.

[ioan]

And all with a dodgy leg too ;)

I suppose it will the same excuse for the following 3 seasons! ;)

[Tazio]

Vettel would probably be further ahead in points if it wasn't for his inexperience. Mark has the upper hand in that arena and his patience along with determination have allowed Webber to shine.
Fettel is over-rated, and Mark maybe a little under.
I think the guy (Fettel) reads his own news clippings to much.
Mark is utilitarian, showing that with a decent car he's got the goods.
No big surprise to me if MW outscores Fettel.
In fact I'd be willing to bet on it! :s mokin:

[CaptainRaiden]

no use complaining bro. MAD MAX ( MAX A.K.A pu****) is the boss now days

What has Max got to do with Red Bull, and how is him being boss of FIA in any way relevant to teammate rivalry "within" Red Bull?!? WTF? :confused:


7 races in and the points are vettel ahead by 1.5 points but this may not be the case if the Malaysian had not been washed out mark would have got 3 points and they would be equal on points.

My opinion is that while Webber is a very good driver, and a prolific qualifier, he probably isn't a "special" driver, and it would be difficult for him to beat Vettel, lucky or not lucky, whatever. But if Red Bull make a world beater next year by any chance, I expect Vettel to be in front in the championship. He probably just has that extra tenth that Mark doesn't have, all the experience comparisons put aside.

[Cooper_S]

Fettel is over-rated, and Mark maybe a little under.
I think the guy (Fettel) reads his own news clippings to much.
Mark is utilitarian, showing that with a decent car he's got the goods.
No big surprise to me if MW outscores Fettel.
In fact I'd be willing to bet on it


Not entirely sure that you know much about Formula one based on your last comment. There is no Fettel in formula and even without checking I am confident there never has been.

Drivers for the most part have no control over how the media decide to 'hype or ignore' them. I would say that most if not all commentators who actually know and follow the sport rate Vettel highly and Webber also for that matter.

As for drivers believing their own media clippings, again if you where referring to Vettel (as your comment was not clear on that) well I would say he is more grounded than most and has always praised his team for all his success, unlike many others.

[CaptainRaiden]

Not entirely sure that you know much about Formula one based on your last comment. There is no Fettel in formula and even without checking I am confident there never has been.

I am sure he is merely spelling it the way Vettel is pronounced in German, as "Fettel". I'm sure Taz didn't mean any disrespect.

P.S.: Maybe he did. :p

[Tazio]

Not entirely sure that you know much about Formula one based on your last comment. There is no Fettel in formula and even without checking I am confident there never has been.

Drivers for the most part have no control over how the media decide to 'hype or ignore' them. I would say that most if not all commentators who actually know and follow the sport rate Vettel highly and Webber also for that matter.

As for drivers believing their own media clippings, again if you where referring to Vettel (as your comment was not clear on that) well I would say he is more grounded than most and has always praised his team for all his success, unlike many others.I was making sport of SV's name as those in the chat notice every race.
I think they view it in the light hearted sense that I use it.
In fact, I,ve gotten other "brethren of ye old chat" using it their too :eek:
Did we get our feelings hurt?
Why don't you loosen your tie, and unstuff your shirt.
Oh yea', and make a bet with me while your at it! :laugh:

[ST205GT4]

I think Vettel has Mark in outright pace.

Happy to be proven wrong, but I don't see Mark winning a race on outright pace if Button or Vettel are still in the race.

[Cooper_S]

I was making sport of SV's name as those in the chat notice every race.

Did we get our feelings hurt?

Why don't you loosen your tie, and unstuff your shirt.

Oh yea', and make a bet with me while your at it! :laugh:


Thank you for the concern but I am in jeans and tee shirt so am quite relaxed...

I am sorry that not being part of your 'chat' (whatever tham may be) I was unfamiliar with your use of Fettel ... Many thanks for explaining your self I shall be better able to assess your meaning in future...

As I an not Sebastien Vettel I personally did not have my feeling hurt so please do not concern yourself fruther on that score.

Umm... an internet wager... OK you're on...

Based on the fact at present they are almost equal in the points standing, I'll wager Vettel will continue to outscore Webber over the remainder of the season and I take it you'll wager the reverse

[Tazio]

Thank you for the concern but I am in jeans and tee shirt so am quite relaxed...

I am sorry that not being part of your 'chat' (whatever tham may be) I was unfamiliar with your use of Fettel ... Many thanks for explaining your self I shall be better able to assess your meaning in future...

As I an not Sebastien Vettel I personally did not have my feeling hurt so please do not concern yourself fruther on that score.

Umm... an internet wager... OK you're on...

Based on the fact at present they are almost equal in the points standing, I'll wager Vettel will continue to outscore Webber over the remainder of the season and I take it you'll wager the reverseNot so fast my eager friend. BTW you can always find the Chat address
as Pino places it as a sticky on this F1 board before Quali every race
I would like to cordually welcome you.
Valve Bounce is our usual "ambassador of goodwill" and has posted many times for members to join in.

As for the "Sig Bet" these things are best negotiated with PM's
Message me and I will propose my terms. You are quit welcome to Pino's chat. It's a real kick in the pants.
Cheers my man :)

[wedge]

Not entirely sure that you know much about Formula one based on your last comment. There is no Fettel in formula and even without checking I am confident there never has been.

Drivers for the most part have no control over how the media decide to 'hype or ignore' them. I would say that most if not all commentators who actually know and follow the sport rate Vettel highly and Webber also for that matter.

As for drivers believing their own media clippings, again if you where referring to Vettel (as your comment was not clear on that) well I would say he is more grounded than most and has always praised his team for all his success, unlike many others.

He has the canny ability to disappoint.

He was useless and played the spoilt brat in Turkey. If it was Hamilton he would've gone for broke and tried at every oppurtunity but Vettel gave up after a few laps and fell back a bit.

Not quite Alonso vetting his fury at the McLaren pit wall in 2007 US GP, but Vettel attempting to set fastest lap after dropping back to Webber and told to turn down the engine is a sign things aren't too rosy inside RBR which culminated after the race when he threw out his handbags by criticising the 3 stopper.

I won't be surprised if he's asking for team orders by now.

[F1boat]

Fettel is over-rated, and Mark maybe a little under.
I think the guy (Fettel) reads his own news clippings to much.
Mark is utilitarian, showing that with a decent car he's got the goods.
No big surprise to me if MW outscores Fettel.
In fact I'd be willing to bet on it! :s mokin:

I think that Seb is faster that Mark, but Mark doesn't make so many mistakes. I'd like to see Mark outscoring Vettel.

[ioan]

Fettel is over-rated, and Mark maybe a little under.
I think the guy (Fettel) reads his own news clippings to much.
Mark is utilitarian, showing that with a decent car he's got the goods.
No big surprise to me if MW outscores Fettel.
In fact I'd be willing to bet on it! :s mokin:

Bookmarked! I'll revisit this post at the end of the season! :D

[ioan]

He has the canny ability to disappoint.

He was useless and played the spoilt brat in Turkey. If it was Hamilton he would've gone for broke and tried at every oppurtunity but Vettel gave up after a few laps and fell back a bit.

Not quite Alonso vetting his fury at the McLaren pit wall in 2007 US GP, but Vettel attempting to set fastest lap after dropping back to Webber and told to turn down the engine is a sign things aren't too rosy inside RBR which culminated after the race when he threw out his handbags by criticising the 3 stopper.

I won't be surprised if he's asking for team orders by now.

Got a problem with drivers having a personality?! Looks like that to me.

[wedge]

Got a problem with drivers having a personality?! Looks like that to me.

No I don't.

Senna once told Mansell "now you know why I'm B'stard". I'm happy to live with that because that's what it takes to be successful in F1 these days.

People who think Vettel is a Mr Nice Guy are clearly delusional.

[gloomyDAY]

Fettel is over-rated, and Mark maybe a little under.
I think the guy (Fettel) reads his own news clippings to much.
Mark is utilitarian, showing that with a decent car he's got the goods.
No big surprise to me if MW outscores Fettel.
In fact I'd be willing to bet on it! :s mokin:You're on!

I'll be in the mood for a Big Kahuna burger by the end of this season.

[tintop]

They have no chance whatsoever this year for the drivers title, maybe the constructors one given how poor Ruby is driving every 2nd GP.


They have a chance, not a great chance, but a chance .... first mechanical for a Brawn this weekend, who knows? In fact, they are further behind in the constructors championship than they are in the Driver's, so that logic doesn't work out for you so well either.

[jens]

Webber has in the past few years seemed quite a heidfeldesque driver (I mean his pre-08 form here) - hardly "spectacular", but keeps racking up consistently good results all the time. It's quite interesting, because up-and-including 2006 Webber seemed more like current Vettel - on his day spectacular, but more prone to mistakes (and he had a lot of unluck as well).

In that respect current duel reminds a of bit of Kubica (fast and inexperienced) vs Heidfeld (experienced, consistent) from 2006-2007.

I've to say that overall Vettel is a bit more impressive than Webber, although their battle is of course quite close. The fact that Vettel has had Webber nicely under control in qualis - area, which has usually been MW's strength - is quite telling. Dodgy strategies haven't helped SV either. If Webber had already lost two races to Vettel due to strategy, the amount of complaints on this forum would be unbearable. :p : But here people tend not to take much notice of Vettel's poor strategies and keep saying, how more experienced Webber is showing him up - nah...

[driveace]

I am sure SV will out score Webber this year.and if RBR make it difficult for SV ,then lots of doors will be open for him with his youth and ability,whereas not as many doors will be open for the Australian
Ferrari would sign Vettel with Alonso

[Koz]

What Mister Max has to do with this I will never know.

SV, IMO is better, and will be soon, much better than MW ever had the potential to be.

I got a question (or two) for ya'll.
Is there any truth to the rumor, that MW was only hired in exchange for Renault engines?

SV also took out MW at his only chance for a win, any love lost there?
China's post race interviews seemed a bit loveless from MW's side.

Any truth to this?

[ioan]

They have a chance, not a great chance, but a chance .... first mechanical for a Brawn this weekend, who knows? In fact, they are further behind in the constructors championship than they are in the Driver's, so that logic doesn't work out for you so well either.

They score with 2 drivers/team in the constructors championship so as long as they lose they lose more as soon as they win they win more, and luckily for them Ruby is past his sell by date.

[tintop]

They score with 2 drivers/team in the constructors championship so as long as they lose they lose more as soon as they win they win more, and luckily for them Ruby is past his sell by date.

Interesting analysis.

[Tumbo]

China's post race interviews seemed a bit loveless from MW's side.


it did look that way, but it seemed from the body language mark exhibited in chatting w/ Jensen they were more bemused that Sv kept getting asked repeated questions at their expense - funnily enough the same question kept being asked of SV his straight forward answers were nice to hear (yes i'm upset but what can you do? All said with huge grin on face)

[52Paddy]

Admittedly his mistake in Turkey came across as careless, but the first lap of any race is always difficult with tires that are not up to temperature. I think he pushed just abit too hard, and had that not happened, I think he would have kept Button behind him until the first pit stops at least.

There is no point in saying this really. Vettel threw it away, simple as. His tyres were not up to temperature, given. But neither were anyone else's. Button was pushing to hold onto the back on Vettel for the opening stint (which turned out to be a pretty handy job.) Its possible (and, in my view, probable) that Vettel cracked under pressure with Button on his tail. Pushing too hard? I don't know, maybe just a lapse in concentration. Had that not happened, who knows? You say he would have kept Button behind until the first stops at least. But Button was quicker than Vettel for all of that stint, and kept increasing his lead in the opening laps. After the first stint, Vettel did push hard and brought the gap down considerably during the second stint :up: But not enough to threaten the leader.

Anyway, that race aside, I think Vettel is a star in the making. But one thing that a lot of drivers don't have is Webber's leadership qualities. He has my respect having watched him work in conjunction with his fellow racers after the red flag came out for the Malaysian GP earlier this year. Webber is a guy who needs to have every detail fall into place for him. But all too often, something just stands in the way of his first win, or another good podium.

[Ari]

Webber. Vettel.

A very, very healthy rivalry brewing there. I reckon one of the best driver line ups in the field if not the best. There is no doubt that Vettel is going to be a star.

Interesting that at the start of the year it was said that Vettel would comfortably account for Webber. So far this hasn't happened.

That said, they've both had a few DNF's. It's easy to say Webber wasn't responsible for Australia or Bahrain but that's crap.

Webber was 8th in Australia cause he stuffed qual. You do that and you're in the middle of the pack. You DNF and that's life. Shouldn't put yourself in that position.

In Bahrain he should have put in a quicker safety lap early. There was no benefit in going out so late in a fast car in Q1. Q3 maybe but not Q1.

How many times has Webber been beaten by his team mate in points? Not many. As of a couple years ago in races where both a teams drivers finish there is one one driver with a higher percentage rate of beating their team mate in the sport. Michael Schumacher.

[Tazio]

You're on!

I'll be in the mood for a Big Kahuna burger by the end of this season.

These things have to be handled delecately. I have terms that include inclement weather factors. Even I'm not ignorant enough to think SV will lose to mark if there is an inordinant amout of wet races. Terms! Binding Terms :p :

[gloomyDAY]

These things have to be handled delecately. I have terms that include inclement weather factors. Even I'm not ignorant enough to think SV will lose to mark if there is an inordinant amout of wet races. Terms! Binding Terms :p :What are you, FOTA?

I want that Big Kahuna burger with extra sauce please.

[RJL25]

It's interesting isn't it, purely on the face of it, Vettel is quicker in outright pace (qualifying) and webber is a better racer, but you have to look deeper.

More often then not Seb has been lighter then Mark in qualifying which would have to account for at least some of the speed differential considering that in some sessions of Q1 and Q2 Mark has been quicker but come Q3 with the fuel loads Seb goes back. If you look at Q1 and Q2 times Seb probably still has a slight edge, but not as much. You have to wonder why Red Bull consistantly give Seb the opportunity to out-qualify Mark? Must be incredibly frustrating for Mark you would have to say.

In the races Mark appears to have out raced Vettel on a number of occasions. Some are saying that Vettel's strategy's have been dodgy hence why Mark got past but you could also look at it on the other side and say that Mark just made better use of his strategies then Seb has.

The perfect example of this is Spain where Mark was given a massively heavy middle stint. To make this work Mark had to absolutely drive his nuts off to pass the cars in front, and thats exactly what he did. To avoid being pased Vettel had to build a lead on Webber while he was lighter but he couldn't get the job done.

Webber has had 3 very good races in a row and I think it is very unfair to dissmiss those results on the basis of strategy.

Yes Vettel has an edge in qualifying, but Webber is proving to be a better racer at this point in time.

Vettel is a more special talent then Webber, happy to admit that, but experience does count in the races. I wonder though given Mark's qualifying form which has been a touch below his usual standard, is his leg preventing him from extracting that final little bit out of the car?

[wedge]

How many times has Webber been beaten by his team mate in points? Not many.

Apart from DC - arguably passed his peak - Webber never had a proper team mate that tested him.

I'm not sure we've seen just how good either are just yet because RBR use Le Mans style hare and tortoise strategies ie. put Webber on a better conventional two stopper, Vettel on aggressive short first stints.

[Knock-on]

I like the Webber and Vettel pairing.

Webber is quick but not super quick IMHO whereas Vettel can be superquick but needs to mature a little as a racer.

I think ultimatly Vettel will win on points over Mark but Vettel needs to handle the pressure from behind a bit better.

[ioan]

What are you, FOTA?

Rather looks like Bernie!

[ioan]

Apart from DC - arguably passed his peak - Webber never had a proper team mate that tested him.

If that's true it's funny how he got beaten by Heidfeld at Williams.

[jens]

Apart from DC - arguably passed his peak - Webber never had a proper team mate that tested him.


It's unfair that you mention DC and don't mention Heidfeld in this respect. Heidfeld tested Webber clearly more than DC ever managed.

[wedge]

I forgot about Heidfeld!


If that's true it's funny how he got beaten by Heidfeld at Williams.

They were near equal but it depends how you look at it and interpret statistics. Equal at finishing one-on-one, Heidfeld scoring more points, Webber quicker in qualy.

They were near equal but it depends how you look at it and interpret statistics. Equal at finishing one-on-one, Heidfeld scoring more points, Webber quicker in qualy.

And since when has scoring fewer points but being quicker in qualifying been a good thing?

[woody2goody]

It's unfair that you mention DC and don't mention Heidfeld in this respect. Heidfeld tested Webber clearly more than DC ever managed.

Actually Heidfeld was beating Webber pretty comprehensively until his strange do at the end of the 05 season. He beat the Aussie to second at Monaco and grabbed pole at the Nurburgring and finished second there too.

[ioan]

Actually Heidfeld was beating Webber pretty comprehensively until his strange do at the end of the 05 season.

Williams put Heidfeld on gardening leave when he decided he will race with Sauber the next season, up to that moment he was clearly the better driver at Williams that season.

[wedge]

And since when has scoring fewer points but being quicker in qualifying been a good thing?

And beating Webber by four points Heidfeld didn't exactly destroy Webber, did he?

[ioan]

And beating Webber by four points Heidfeld didn't exactly destroy Webber, did he?

Was that before Heidfeld stopped racing for Williams, and 4 out of how many points?

[CNR]

http://www.crash.net/formula+one/news/143932/1/heidfeld_my_quickest_f1_team-mate_not_kubica_or_kimi.html


Nick Heidfeld has revealed the driver he believes to have been his quickest team-mate over his nine years in Formula 1 – and it isn't who you might perhaps expect.

During his near-decade in the top flight, the experienced German has partnered – in chronological order – Jean Alesi at Prost Grand Prix, Kimi Raikkonen, Felipe Massa and Heinz-Harald Frentzen at Sauber, Giorgio Pantano and Timo Glock at Jordan, Mark Webber at Williams and Jacques Villeneuve and, currently, Robert Kubica at BMW-Sauber.

Between them, the aforementioned drivers have notched up no fewer than 44 grand prix victories and two world championship crowns, yet Heidfeld is still in search of his maiden triumph after 150 starts in the top flight, despite having eleven times finished up on the podium.

It is indeed illustrious company the man from Mönchengladbach has kept since he made his F1 debut back in 2000, and if he has successfully got the better of every driver on the above list on more than the odd occasion, 'Quick Nick' – as he is dubbed by his fans – nonetheless rates one of them ahead of all others in terms of outright pace.

“I'm pretty sure that Mark Webber has been the quickest team-mate I've had so far in terms of qualifying – he was very strong there,” he told his website, after being beaten nine-five by the Australian during their year spent together at Williams back in 2005 – even though at the time of his premature end to the campaign following a cycling accident, Heidfeld led the way in terms of points scored with 28 to 24.

[Ent]

Actually Heidfeld was beating Webber pretty comprehensively until his strange do at the end of the 05 season. He beat the Aussie to second at Monaco and grabbed pole at the Nurburgring and finished second there too.

I remember that Monaco race. I've never seen a driver so angry at getting his first podium. Webber was well ahead of Heidfeld before being stuck behind Alonso who was leading, allowing Heidfeld to close up, then the team brought Heidfeld into the pits before Webber, swapping the order. It was apparently a team stuff-up and pretty much accounts for the 4 points difference between the drivers, making the Heidfeld-Webber battle pretty much an even event at the time of Heidfeld's "gardening leave". Still, Heidfled was the only one to get near Webber, unlike drivers like DC or Rosberg.

I think partnering up Vettel and Webber is great for both drivers. It should bring out the best in them both. Vettel seems faster on lighter loads where he can driver the socks of that RB, but Webber always seems to be able to keep good speed on a heavy middle stint that allows him to jump others at the final pit-stop.

[woody2goody]

Still, Heidfled was the only one to get near Webber, unlike drivers like DC or Rosberg.

In fairness to Nico it was his first season, and Webber's fifth.

[RJL25]

anyone who thinks Heidfeld "easily" beat webber at williams is a fool, it was a very even deal, Webber beat Heidi easily in qualifying but in the races Webber was still in the middle of his "wild years" and threw away a fair few points whereas Heidfeld was more consistant, but to suggest that either drive dramatically got the better of the other either has a poor memory or just doesn't like the other driver because it was very even, but webber had an obvious edge in outright pace as his qualifying record against heidfeld showed

[Ranger]

Was that before Heidfeld stopped racing for Williams, and 4 out of how many points?

Heidfeld had 28 points, Webber had 24.

They were 3-3 in races where they both finished.

Having said that, Mark was underwhelming that year.

He made several rather silly errors (San Marino, Nurburgring) and was on the receiving end of the dumbest non-SC related crash I've seen in the last 5 years, courtesy of Fisichella in Malaysia.


In fairness to Nico it was his first season, and Webber's fifth.
But Nico's raw pace was only better than Mark's in Bahrain in 2006, it all went downhill for him in the next 17 races.

[Ent]

In fairness to Nico it was his first season, and Webber's fifth.

I agree. Mind you, Nico hasn't really had a decent team-mate since then, so it would be nice to see him up against someone good now to gauge just how good he is. Until then, the jury will be out.

[Knock-on]

anyone who thinks Heidfeld "easily" beat webber at williams is a fool, it was a very even deal, Webber beat Heidi easily in qualifying but in the races Webber was still in the middle of his "wild years" and threw away a fair few points whereas Heidfeld was more consistant, but to suggest that either drive dramatically got the better of the other either has a poor memory or just doesn't like the other driver because it was very even, but webber had an obvious edge in outright pace as his qualifying record against heidfeld showed

I agree. Quick Nick is a talented driver that should have had a lot more success. Perhaps it was because he never got the chance that perhaps he deserved but it speaks volumes that he regards Mark so highly.

[RJL25]

I would have thought it was more or less a case of Seb being too amped up before the start of the race and adrenalen got the better of him as he got over excited and made a mistake.

It's hard to say that he cracked under the pressure Jenson was putting on him after only half a lap of the GP, no driver in the world can apply all that much pressure in the space of half a lap....

[Knock-on]

I would have thought it was more or less a case of Seb being too amped up before the start of the race and adrenalen got the better of him as he got over excited and made a mistake.

It's hard to say that he cracked under the pressure Jenson was putting on him after only half a lap of the GP, no driver in the world can apply all that much pressure in the space of half a lap....

I don't think it's correct to say that the pressure Jenson put Seb under made him go off.

i think it's fair to say that he was slightly past the edge of his car and ability in his efforts to keep the lead.

In a way, that is the pressure he put on himself rather than the pressure from behind ;)

[CNR]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8098165.stm



LOCKING HORNS WITH VETTEL
I'm enjoying my battle with my team-mate Sebastian Vettel this year.
It's the first time I've had someone so quick as my team-mate, and I've always said that's what it's all about - at this level, you want to compare yourself to the best guys.
Vettel is hot property at the moment and he's done a great job to get where he is but there's just a point and a half between us in the championship.
If he's down the road by 40 seconds at the end of a grand prix and I've done my best, I can't do anything about that, and it's the same with him - he did his best in Turkey and it wasn't enough.
It's going to be like that for the rest of the season. There'll be weekends when I do better and weekends when he does but the most important thing is that we get the best out of the car.
People ask me if I feel under pressure, but I think there's more pressure on Sebastian.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45924000/jpg/_45924344_vetweb226.jpg Webber (behind) is enjoying his battle with team-mate Vettel


In people's eyes, I'm not supposed to be doing what I'm doing. People think he's the new Schumacher and should be hosing it, but it's good that's not the case.
I don't feel any more pressure than when I'm driving for 10th or 12th. There's no pressure to prove anything to anyone but myself.
The last two or three races have gone well for me and less well for Sebastian but things are fine between us.
When you qualify a bit better and some of the races don't go your way, which has been the case in the last three races with Sebastian, you can get frustrated. I've been there.
For the Red Bull team, it's uncharted waters having two drivers who are equal and fighting each other.
It's a bit early in the season to throw in your lot with one guy. You could throw it all in with Sebastian but he crashed in Monaco so you've still got to give both cars the best chance to get the best result possible.
In terms of the championship, at this stage you have to let the drivers do what they do. In Turkey last time out, the team just let us get on with it, which is good.
If Sebastian was 25 points ahead of me now it'd be a different ball game but he's not - we're both still trying to close the gap on Jenson Button, which is proving pretty difficult.

[Tazio]

:rolleyes: Yea' Babe :p : :beer:

[ioan]

I'm enjoying my battle with my team-mate Sebastian Vettel this year.
It's the first time I've had someone so quick as my team-mate,...

Liar!

[tintop]

Originally Posted by tintop http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=645133#post645133)
I hope that Mark gets energized by being this close. Vettel will likely have a lot of cracks at the title, but this might realistically be Mark's last chance.


They have no chance whatsoever this year for the drivers title, maybe the constructors one given how poor Ruby is driving every 2nd GP.

Funny how things change in just a few races! :s mokin:

[ioan]

Funny how things change in just a few races! :s mokin:

TBH I hope they snatch both titles this season, but the road will be long and difficult.

IMO the RedBull car is a much better one than the Brawn and only the interpretation of the definition of a hole gave Brawn an rather dubious advantage.

And both Vettel and Webber are at least one level above the BrawnGP drivers in terms of driver skills.

[Valve Bounce]

TBH I hope they snatch both titles this season, but the road will be long and difficult.

IMO the RedBull car is a much better one than the Brawn and only the interpretation of the definition of a hole gave Brawn an rather dubious advantage.

And both Vettel and Webber are at least one level above the BrawnGP drivers in terms of driver skills.

I'm not sure about that. I have been one of the worst detractors of bunsen over the years; Let's see how things go when the tracks are warmer and of course, Mark regains his fitness.

This will be an engrossing tussle.

And wouldn't it be funny if Rubens won the next race.

This is a very interesting year in F1 - a battle for the title between two teams who have not won a single race before. OK! Bunsen did win one race for Honda some years ago, I'll concede that.

[tintop]

And wouldn't it be funny if Rubens won the next race.

This is a very interesting year in F1 - a battle for the title between two teams who have not won a single race before. OK! Bunsen did win one race for Honda some years ago, I'll concede that.

Amazing, behind all the organizational smoke emerges an intriguing championship!

[gloomyDAY]

This is a very interesting year in F1 - a battle for the title between two teams who have not won a single race before. OK! Bunsen did win one race for Honda some years ago, I'll concede that.Button didn't win that race on merit. Just reminding everyone. :D

[52Paddy]

I was glad to see Webber win his first race after such a long wait and after all the effort he put into his career over the past few years. However, I still think he'll be hard pressed to out-do Vettel for the remainder of the year. Unless Vettel makes more cock-ups, then Webber is going to have to work very hard to repeat the result of the German GP. And can they close the gap to Brawn? Yes, I believe they can because they're team-work is improving. I wouldn't rule them out as serious contenders for the constructor's title. But I think Button has enough of a cushion to collect as many points in the remaining races and still be champion. The battle for 2nd is still very close but current form suggests to me it will end up as Vettel (2), Webber (3) and Barrichello (4). Though, who knows what surprise Hungary will throw at us? It has been quite an unpredictable year.