Should there be fuel rig nozzle sensor?

[wedge]

The Indycar commentators mentioned this at the Texas race.

A sensor in the nozzle which can disengage the cars' electronics/throttle so you don't get cars running off and ripping the fuel hose.

Can't help but think of electronic gremlins this system seems doomed to fail.

[AJP]

The Indycar commentators mentioned this at the Texas race.

A sensor in the nozzle which can disengage the cars' electronics/throttle so you don't get cars running off and ripping the fuel hose.

Can't help but think of electronic gremlins this system seems doomed to fail.

I think not..

I personally, would rather rely on my pit crew than have the chance of an electronic malfunction.

[NickFalzone]

All the VS announcers said it was a great idea. I think it's a terrible idea. Granted, I don't work in the pits or understand the level of safety they're currently working under. But to me this sounds like a bad idea from a competition standpoint. How many cars had electronics problems at Texas, at least 3 lost laps due to electronic gearbox or other issues. Crews have been putting gas in racecars for a long time and for the most part it's worked out pretty well. How about doing a training course with the actual drivers to make sure they don't leave the pits early? Or is that too much to ask.

[Jag_Warrior]

We send people into space on a whim. So I would definitely trust electronics more than I would trust human judgment. I don't think I'd buy a fuel sensor unit designed by Ferrari, but... ya know... :p

[jso1985]

The Indycar commentators mentioned this at the Texas race.

A sensor in the nozzle which can disengage the cars' electronics/throttle so you don't get cars running off and ripping the fuel hose.

Can't help but think of electronic gremlins this system seems doomed to fail.

Funny thing is that IndyCars do that all the time! ask Danica!

[call_me_andrew]

I think it's a great idea.

[Mark]

Since refuelling is banned next year, there's no point bringing it in now!

[ioan]

We send people into space on a whim. So I would definitely trust electronics more than I would trust human judgment.

:up:

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I say no no no no no no no ! Are pit crews so incompetent they need this ? I say no.

This smacks of nothing more than taking another human element out of the equation. Pit stops test the skills of the team. Getting that fuel nozzle in and out and sending the driver off safely are part of that skill.

Now I would say, as a statistical guess, that a fuel nozzle mishap happens one in every one thousand pit stops. To me the instances of this happening are so few and far between that it does not warrant this action.

The danger is and can be and is diminished by good old fashioned practice practice practice.

What a ridiculous idea this is.

[chuck34]

How about doing a training course with the actual drivers to make sure they don't leave the pits early?

I would say that it's about 50/50 crew/driver fault. The one's I've seen this year were all the crew sending the driver too early. Not the driver's fault at all. And I can't come down too hard on the crew guys either. The blood gets pumping and strange things happen sometimes.

I think the better way to make the stops safer without introducing electronics gremlins would be to incorporate the airjack into the fuel hose somehow. That way when you plug in the fuel hose the car goes up. Then it will not come back down again until the fuel hose is out. That makes it imposible for the car to move with the fuel hose connected. That could be an interesting engineering task. But maybe it's impossible, as I would have thought someone would have tried it by now.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I would say that it's about 50/50 crew/driver fault. The one's I've seen this year were all the crew sending the driver too early. Not the driver's fault at all. And I can't come down too hard on the crew guys either. The blood gets pumping and strange things happen sometimes.

I think the better way to make the stops safer without introducing electronics gremlins would be to incorporate the airjack into the fuel hose somehow. That way when you plug in the fuel hose the car goes up. Then it will not come back down again until the fuel hose is out. That makes it imposible for the car to move with the fuel hose connected. That could be an interesting engineering task. But maybe it's impossible, as I would have thought someone would have tried it by now.

wow great idea

[chuck34]

Since refuelling is banned next year, there's no point bringing it in now!

Isn't that in F1????

[chuck34]

wow great idea

Thanks. But like I said, I would have thought that someone would have tried it, if it was possible. But maybe they've not had a need for it?

[Chamoo]

Either the air jack idea, or since every pit stop is monitored by IRL officials, don't let the car leave the pit area until the fuel man and hose are back over the wall. If the car is deemed to begin moving before the fuel man gets over the wall, a drive through penalty is administered.

[Ghostwalker]

Either the air jack idea, or since every pit stop is monitored by IRL officials, don't let the car leave the pit area until the fuel man and hose are back over the wall. If the car is deemed to begin moving before the fuel man gets over the wall, a drive through penalty is administered.

well there is only one problem with your second suggestion, there are no walls in a F1 pit. ;) :p :rolleyes:

[Jag_Warrior]

Isn't that in F1????

I just realized that this thread is being shown on two different forums at the same time. Some are seeing it in the F1 forum. Some are seeing it in the IRL forum. The cars and pitstops are totally different. I don't really see the crossover or need to display it in two places.

F1 cars don't have airjacks made into the car and IRL cars don't have 16+ people working on the car during the stop. And as was said, (as far as we know), F1 won't have refueling next year anyway.

[chuck34]

I just realized that this thread is being shown on two different forums at the same time. Some are seeing it in the F1 forum. Some are seeing it in the IRL forum. The cars and pitstops are totally different. I don't really see the crossover or need to display it in two places.

F1 cars don't have airjacks made into the car and IRL cars don't have 16+ people working on the car during the stop. And as was said, (as far as we know), F1 won't have refueling next year anyway.

I didn't realize that either. I check in on the F1 threads every now and then, but hadn't noticed this thread over there.

Like you said, I'm not sure of the need for a cross over deal?

[Chamoo]

Agreed, I started to clue in when two F1 posts showed up lol.

[wedge]

Since refuelling is banned next year, there's no point bringing it in now!

Knowing how dumb Max can be it might introduced within the next race or two :-P

[wedge]

I just realized that this thread is being shown on two different forums at the same time. Some are seeing it in the F1 forum. Some are seeing it in the IRL forum. The cars and pitstops are totally different. I don't really see the crossover or need to display it in two places.

F1 cars don't have airjacks made into the car and IRL cars don't have 16+ people working on the car during the stop. And as was said, (as far as we know), F1 won't have refueling next year anyway.

Have you noticed there's a refuelling hose that's likely to be ripped out by drivers causing a fire hazard?

[woody2goody]

It's a decent idea in principle, but could an electronic problem possibly make the car stuck in the 'off' mode essentially?

[NickFalzone]

I'd rather see people fail than electronics fail. But if safety is a real concern with the current refueling setup, then I suppose the electronic component would be good to have. I'd prefer that they make the people component safer though without introducing a dummy-electronics system.

[Jag_Warrior]

Have you noticed there's a refuelling hose that's likely to be ripped out by drivers causing a fire hazard?

You lost me, Wedge. Right now both series refuel, so yeah, I realize that. But next season, F1 won't (supposedly) allow refueling. But I'm confused... don't know what you mean. :confused:

[Mark]

F1 cars don't have airjacks made into the car .

F1 teams don't use airjacks at all, it's mostly just a simple pivot trolley system. Very very simple, and not prone to failure as a result!

[AndyL]

But does require more people over the wall.

Including one poor chap who has to stand directly in front of the car as it approaches at 60mph, hoping that the driver remembers where to brake! It's not just the drivers that have to be brave :)

[Jag_Warrior]

F1 teams don't use airjacks at all, it's mostly just a simple pivot trolley system. Very very simple, and not prone to failure as a result!

What powers the jack system that Williams uses/used?

[dataman1]

Chuck34 has the best solution thus far. The close proximity of the air jack port and the fuel nozzle inlet make his idea possible. Just need to put some good brains behind it and make it happen.

For those who did not read his post, basically, keep the car up on the jacks until the nozzle is removed.

Good thinking Chuck!

[chuck34]

Chuck34 has the best solution thus far. The close proximity of the air jack port and the fuel nozzle inlet make his idea possible. Just need to put some good brains behind it and make it happen.

For those who did not read his post, basically, keep the car up on the jacks until the nozzle is removed.

Good thinking Chuck!

The more I think about it, the more I think this idea would work well. Does anyone know where I can get my hands on some drawings for the current fuel buckeye? I'd love to do some doodling on this.

[Mark]

What powers the jack system that Williams uses/used?

Who are the exception on the grid who use powered jacks.


But does require more people over the wall.

Well, there is no 'wall' in F1. But yes, it does mean two extra people.

[markabilly]

The Indycar commentators mentioned this at the Texas race.

A sensor in the nozzle which can disengage the cars' electronics/throttle so you don't get cars running off and ripping the fuel hose.

Can't help but think of electronic gremlins this system seems doomed to fail.


Sounds pretty much how the ferrari system worked, except it was a light that came on and not the throttle....

worked real good for Hamilton. Without it, he would not have been last year's WDC

[Mark]

Sounds pretty much how the ferrari system worked, except it was a light that came on and not the throttle....

worked real good for Hamilton. Without it, he would not have been last year's WDC

Very true :laugh: . Although as I recall it was activated by someone pressing a button, it wasn't connected to the fuel rig or anything like that.

Trouble was the person pressing the button was a bit trigger happy!

[dataman1]

The more I think about it, the more I think this idea would work well. Does anyone know where I can get my hands on some drawings for the current fuel buckeye? I'd love to do some doodling on this.

Chuck34, Check for PM.