Donkey of the race - Turkish GP [Archive]

Dave B

7th June 2009, 15:42

Barrichello had problems later in the race with his gearbox. I'm not going to jump on his back until we know whether technical problems contributed to his poor start.

Ross Brawn has just told the BBC "he [Rubens] had problems with the clutch at the start" - not sure if he means driver or car.

ioan

7th June 2009, 16:03

Rubens for the red mist. No matter what his car had, it doesn't excuse him running into every car he managed to get close to.

Special mention for Ferrari being abysmal again.

ioan

7th June 2009, 16:04

ioan

7th June 2009, 16:05

Barrichello again.

And the member of the Williams team who designed those wheelcovers :mad: . Can they be banned for next year please??

Who, the Williams team members?! :p

ioan

7th June 2009, 16:05

Those new overtaking regs weren't working too well either.

Blame the DD diffuser and the FIA for allowing it.

superocean

7th June 2009, 16:05

Donkey Driver: Rubens, dude your #2 driver, even if you had managed a win today.
Team: Red Bull for giving Vettel a 3 stopper
Owner: VJ, get rid of Fisi
Official: Bernie for making me stay up to watch the race online instead of on Speed. I'm not watching the crap fox broadcast.

Dave B

7th June 2009, 16:08

As far as my English knowledge goes, a car can't be a "he".
Quick English lesson for you: "he had problems with the clutch" could mean

a) There was a fault with the clutch which affected Rubens

or

b) Rubens is a dolt who couldn't operate his clutch properly

Maybe your special insight could clarify which one Ross meant.

christophulus

7th June 2009, 16:08

Who, the Williams team members?! :p

I meant the wheelcovers generally :p

F1boat

7th June 2009, 16:08

Rubens.

markabilly

7th June 2009, 16:10

RB maybe depending on technical issues

Vettel for blowing the win on lap one, clear mistake and race over....as later, when he needed to to, once agsin he could not find balls necessary to pass Button nor Webber,

Look for them balls Vettie, tiny as they be, they must be in there somewhere....if not, may be his girl friend could loan him one or two... :love:

ioan

7th June 2009, 16:15

Quick English lesson for you: "he had problems with the clutch" could mean

a) There was a fault with the clutch which affected Rubens

or

b) Rubens is a dolt who couldn't operate his clutch properly

Maybe your special insight could clarify which one Ross meant.

Am I and English specialist or what?! :p :

PS: The previous post was tongue in cheek, but I suppose someone didn't get it!
PPS: According to Alex Wurz the antistall kicked in at the start because Rubens took to much risks at the start, so he had to double shift in order to get the car in the right gear.

ioan

7th June 2009, 16:17

markabilly

7th June 2009, 16:17

Official: Bernie for making me stay up to watch the race online instead of on Speed. I'm not watching the crap fox broadcast.
amen---he probably made them a special deal to get his track more pr

markabilly

7th June 2009, 16:23

Lay of the koolaid, man.

vettel needs to get on the koolaid and start believing he got some before it is tooooo late :beer:

given his being stuck behind button, his lap times overall IF he had stayed in front before his first pit, would probably have given him a victory

Nope the clear winner for Donkey, given there was no question about his equipment(err mechanical not the attachments), was Vettel (although the team does deserve some credit as well---but without the lighter tank he might not have gotten pole)

ioan

7th June 2009, 17:00

vettel needs to get on the koolaid and start believing he got some before it is tooooo late :beer:

Some what?
The car isn't fast enough.

markabilly

7th June 2009, 17:04

Some what?
The car isn't fast enough.

i think it is, and if it had the merc engine, it would be easily out running brawn.....btw, why do you not loan him one of yours??

as far as i am concerned, if they were big enough, that one ball would be all it would take to show he is the best out there :s mokin:

ioan

7th June 2009, 17:14

i think it is, and if it had the merc engine, it would be easily out running brawn.....btw, why do you not loan him one of yours??

as far as i am concerned, if they were big enough, that one ball would be all it would take to show he is the best out there :s mokin:

Newey made the switch from Ferrari to Renault, because he can't design a car around any engine, he needs the smallest one possible, and this time he got the least powerful one on the grid.
RedBull still has access to Ferrari engines if they wish to use them, just make the switch with STR, but now it's to late.

PS: I doubt the engine performance would make such a big difference though. It's all about a lack of downforce compared to the Honda car.

Hondo

7th June 2009, 17:25

I'll have to go with Vettel. You messed your race up yourself and now you are kinda whining and insinuating that the team should have covered your butt by changing your fuel strategy. You have stated that you wouldn't have been able to catch Button anyway. Red Bull just wanted their 2-3 finish and got it without having to rob Webber of his earned second place by fixing your mistake for you. Quiet down and don't mess up next time.

Bagwan

7th June 2009, 17:25

"Donkey of the interviews" goes to Windsor , for asking the same questions twice , and "Priceless moment of the interviews" goes to Vettel , who , in his time talking , twice laughed and smiled widely while saying he wasn't happy .

Nikki Katz

7th June 2009, 17:35

Barrichello for the start, though I guess that some of his accidents were just him trying anything to regain some ground as he'd never have scored from where he was.

Bourdais was off pace all weekend too.

Dave B

7th June 2009, 17:45

To be fair to Bourdais he was saddled with a rather pointless 1-stop strategy today, difficult to show pace when you start off in the only car over 700 kilos and then spend half the race on option tyres.

ioan

7th June 2009, 17:50

I'll have to go with Vettel. You messed your race up yourself and now you are kinda whining and insinuating that the team should have covered your butt by changing your fuel strategy.

Well that's why one has a team and a strategists an so on, to cover up for unexpected situation.
Or you think they are there paid just to talk to him through the radio?! :rolleyes:

Bottom line, they didn't use their brains. It's impossible to make a 3 stop strategy work against a better car, and hi steam had 14 odd laps in order to decide for the best strategy still they blew it.

Alo Vettel doesn't have to take all the rubbish from the team, the day he chooses to walk there will be a war over him between the big teams.

Knock-on

7th June 2009, 20:46

Naomi Campbell. What was that dizzy bint on before the race. Whatever it was, perhaps she gave some to Rubens to help him overtake.

donKey jote

7th June 2009, 21:34

Rubens and Hamilton (who?) :p :

Piquet driver of the race for his pass on Lewis :laugh:

Sonic

7th June 2009, 21:48

I don't think there was a donkey today. Rubens has had car drama, Vettel was pushing hard and made a mistake - big Woop! Its what we want from our F1 drivers.

The rest performed as their cars allowed.

ioan

7th June 2009, 21:58

I don't think there was a donkey today. Rubens has had car drama...

Running into other cars is not car drama is stupidity.

christophulus

7th June 2009, 22:03

I said Barrichello based on his questionable overtaking manoeuvres, not his clutch problems. As the most experienced guy on the grid he should be a bit more capable at passing slower cars!

Sonic

7th June 2009, 22:05

He also had issues with top gear and therefore any pass he was ever gonna make would have to come from a ways back. He got tangled up in a few scraps but would you prefer he didn't have a go? He made the race interesting in the first 10 laps.

ioan

7th June 2009, 22:22

truefan72

7th June 2009, 23:16

clearly Rubens

woody2goody

7th June 2009, 23:18

Fisichella, Barrichello, and Piquet all had appalling performances today, so I would struggle to make a decision.... Hang on..... Coin flips......

Barrichello I would say for losing his head when he lost position :s mokin:

Hang on mate, sorry, but since when were Piquet and Fisi 'poor'?

Piquet ran with the heaviest car on a stupid one-stopper, overtook the world champion, didn't throw it off the road, and finished much higher than where he started. And I'm not a fan of his by any stretch.

As for Fisi, how did he have a poor performance when he made up 5 places off the start and then his car failed him after 5 laps?

I agree with your assessment of Rubens. I'm not going to blame him for the start as it can happen to anybody. And if he'd have taken a better opportunity to overtake Kovy he could have finished 5th or 6th.

Valve Bounce

8th June 2009, 01:32

Barrichello was embarrassing. Vettel majorly screwed up, also.

I would say Vettel's race engineer - cost him P2 for the race with that silly pit stop strategy.
There was no way he could have got past bunsen unless bunsen screwed up - the solution was to settle for a safe 8 points. How difficult is that to understand?

markabilly

8th June 2009, 02:52

I would say Vettel's race engineer - cost him P2 for the race with that silly pit stop strategy.
There was no way he could have got past bunsen unless bunsen screwed up - the solution was to settle for a safe 8 points. How difficult is that to understand?

Well, see valve, there was this thing called "pole" and if sebie had done kept his wits about him and not let Jensen drive right past him towards the end of lap 1... :eek:

he might well have been far enough ahead to make it a victory....so how can one blame the engineer for his running off the rack on lap 1, and then clearly being unwilling to even make a real attempt at a pass on jenson later before he pitted???

nope donkey belongs to vettel, all by himself

Dave B

8th June 2009, 09:10

Naomi Campbell. What was that dizzy bint on before the race. Whatever it was, perhaps she gave some to Rubens to help him overtake.
"I'm supporting England!!"

How? By standing in the Ferrari garage? And WTF's with those sunglasses. It's not the 1970s and you are not, so far as I know, a fly.

52Paddy

8th June 2009, 09:46

"I'm supporting England!!"

How? By standing in the Ferrari garage? And WTF's with those sunglasses. It's not the 1970s and you are not, so far as I know, a fly.

She gets my donkey award too. I think she was either drunk or stoned in that interview.

But for the race, I give it to Bourdais. Although his race strategy was going to fail him on any chance of decent results, his qualifying pace was still very poor. Beaten by his inexperienced team-mate again. I had hope in Bourdais before the season, I thought this would be his chance to show that he deserves an F1 seat. But this weekend, I think I've made my mind up on the contrary. :(

Spoonbender

8th June 2009, 10:05

Those new overtaking regs weren't working too well either.

Seemed to be working for anyone overtaking a Renault!!

Rubens had technical probs, so Donkey has to be Piquet Jr

ioan

8th June 2009, 10:41

Well, see valve, there was this thing called "pole" and if sebie had done kept his wits about him and not let Jensen drive right past him towards the end of lap 1... :eek:

he might well have been far enough ahead to make it a victory.

Stop kidding yourself, there was no chance for a victory unless Button made a big mistake or his car broke down.

ioan

8th June 2009, 10:42

Seemed to be working for anyone overtaking a Renault!!

Rubens had technical probs, so Donkey has to be Piquet Jr

You mean overtaking a McLaren?! :laugh:

Go Piquet, that was the overtaking move of the year!

Rubens is a tool he ran into 2 cars on his own, AFAIK his steering and brakes were functioning well, only his head was not screwed on properly.

I am evil Homer

8th June 2009, 11:04

Agreed...no 7th gear doesn't excuse stupid lunges up the inside of Heikki and at a chicane!

AndyL

8th June 2009, 11:22

I agree with your assessment of Rubens. I'm not going to blame him for the start as it can happen to anybody. And if he'd have taken a better opportunity to overtake Kovy he could have finished 5th or 6th.

He did overtake Kovy! Unfortunately with no 7th gear vs a car with KERS he got immediately re-passed.

Valve Bounce

8th June 2009, 11:22

Well, see valve, there was this thing called "pole" and if sebie had done kept his wits about him and not let Jensen drive right past him towards the end of lap 1... :eek:

he might well have been far enough ahead to make it a victory....so how can one blame the engineer for his running off the rack on lap 1, and then clearly being unwilling to even make a real attempt at a pass on jenson later before he pitted???

nope donkey belongs to vettel, all by himself

I followed the race on three fronts: pino's chat, The webcast, and also the F1.com's live internet web where I can follow each lap, pit stops, and the gaps between the cars as well as the individual sector times of each lap and the lap times.

They brought Vettel in for a short pit stop and lighter fuel load after the first stint. Vettel tried to catch bunsen after that with his lighter fuel load and unfortunately there was no hope of him either catching bunsen let alone pass him. Vettel; then was lumbered with an extra pit stop vis a vis both bunsen and Mark Webber, and as a result he lost p2 to Mark.

I hope this explains things a bit more clearly.

The point is: Vettel did make a mistake in lap 1 and let bunsen through when he ran wide, but as he was on a lighter fuel load then and couldn't catch bunsen, his engineer should have figured out that he was heading for p2 as he was much faster than Mark Webber.

That silly extra pit/fuel stop cost Vettel P2.

I hope this makes it clearer for you.

Valve Bounce

8th June 2009, 11:25

Rubens, after the start line fiasco when he was blessed with the anti-stall and lost heaps of places, wasn't going to make up enough positions to get points; losing a gear didn't help. His Brazillian temperament got the better of him and he drove, as some say, like a tool.

But, Vettel's engineer cost him p2 - that's the point I am making.

Knock-on

8th June 2009, 11:48

Stop kidding yourself, there was no chance for a victory unless Button made a big mistake or his car broke down.

He had slightly less fuel and qualified on pole. He had an opportunity to lead from the front and build up a bit of a gap but made a mistake and let Jenson through.

Even then, he had a faster car when he closed up on Jenson and had a chance to get past but couldn't make it happen.

So, he had a much bigger handle on his destiny than you give him credit for.

ioan

8th June 2009, 12:01

Piquet was in a considerably lighter car than the Mclaren.... When I say considerably I mean 70-75Kg's lighter,

70-75kgs?! :laugh:
And even if that was the case, overtaking on the exterior of turn 12 and than banging wheels for the next 3 corners was great racing show from a guy everyone like to rubbish!
Tell you what, Piquet is a better racer than Rubens ever was or will be, he just didn't have the luck to be in the right team and the right time.

ioan

8th June 2009, 12:04

He had slightly less fuel and qualified on pole. He had an opportunity to lead from the front and build up a bit of a gap but made a mistake and let Jenson through.

Even then, he had a faster car when he closed up on Jenson and had a chance to get past but couldn't make it happen.

So, he had a much bigger handle on his destiny than you give him credit for.

He stopped 1or 2 lap earlier than Jenson, which means he wasn't so much lighter.
And in order to make a 3 stops strategy work he should have had a serious advantage over the Honda, which really wasn't the case yesterday.

IMO, even after they failed to change his strategy accordingly the team should have brought him in as soon as they realized that it was almost impossible to pass on track and put him again in clean air. They failed twice to give him the right choice in terms of strategy.

Valve Bounce

8th June 2009, 12:12

He stopped 1or 2 lap earlier than Jenson, which means he wasn't so much lighter.
And in order to make a 3 stops strategy work he should have had a serious advantage over the Honda, which really wasn't the case yesterday.

IMO, even after they failed to change his strategy accordingly the team should have brought him in as soon as they realized that it was almost impossible to pass on track and put him again in clean air. They failed twice to give him the right choice in terms of strategy.

I agree - the race engineer buggered up his race.

555-04Q2

8th June 2009, 12:40

Barrichello. What a joke :(

Garry Walker

8th June 2009, 13:41

Alo Vettel doesn't have to take all the rubbish from the team, the day he chooses to walk there will be a war over him between the big teams.

What rubbish is he getting from RB? By all reports he is the golden boy of the team, getting preference and support over Webber. Yesterday he was put on a very risky strategy for sure, but remember Hamilton almost made it work against Massa last year. Of course, Hamilton is also a much better driver than Vettel.

I cant deny I was very happy and clapping my hands when he made a mistake yesterday, it was very enjoyable.

Biggest idiots of the race: Barrichello and Vettel.

ioan

8th June 2009, 14:22

What rubbish is he getting from RB?

Example from yesterday:

Vettel cuts another 0.8 seconds of Webber's advatange. The tams tells him over the radio:
"Don't push, Mark is faster than you!"

if that wasn't BS than I don't know what it was.

ioan

8th June 2009, 14:24

Have a look at some of the on-board footage of the Mclaren, Lewis was having trouble keeping it on the road let alone trying to defend his position.

The Renault was handling like a sh!tbox too, so what's your point?!

Rubens must be doing something right to still be in F1 after 16 years, and not to have faded along with some of his previous teams...

Yep, he's the ideal no.2 driver! :D

Garry Walker

8th June 2009, 14:31

Example from yesterday:

Vettel cuts another 0.8 seconds of Webber's advatange. The tams tells him over the radio:
"Don't push, Mark is faster than you!"

if that wasn't BS than I don't know what it was.

It was obvious Webber was not pushing that hard anymore and no matter what, Vettel was not getting past him anyway. So why risk 14 points, when they know about Vettels tendency to crash a lot?

stevie_gerrard

8th June 2009, 14:42

Probably Rubens, but i thought he was just unfortunate at the start, and struggled ever since. He did make a couple of risky moves though.

woody2goody

8th June 2009, 14:50

The Renault was handling like a sh!tbox too, so what's your point?!

You're right, it must have been if Fernando only came 10th and he didn't really have a troublesome race.

Vettel was let down in the same way that Rubens was in Barcelona. Both men had track position over their rivals, and both were put on strategies which had disadvantages. Surely track position is the priority, especially if it's two drivers in identical cars.

ioan

8th June 2009, 14:51

It was obvious Webber was not pushing that hard anymore and no matter what, Vettel was not getting past him anyway. So why risk 14 points, when they know about Vettels tendency to crash a lot?

I agree that it would have been difficult to get past, I was just pointing out the BS they were talking.

According to Wurz, who was commenting the race here, Webber had graining problems with his rear tires and he couldn't have went faster than that.

Blancvino

8th June 2009, 15:27

Rubens ... Want some cheese to go with that whine?!!!

Blancvino

8th June 2009, 15:36

You're right, it must have been if Fernando only came 10th and he didn't really have a troublesome race.

Vettel was let down in the same way that Rubens was in Barcelona. Both men had track position over their rivals, and both were put on strategies which had disadvantages. Surely track position is the priority, especially if it's two drivers in identical cars.

Do you really think Vettel had a chance to catch Button after he lost the lead at the beginning of the race? After that cockup, a two or three stopper would not have made a difference, as I see it. The second stint where Vettel was a lot lighter than Jenson, he was able catch up but could not make a pass. Red Bull is clearly getting better but they better start planning for 2010. Jenson has 2009 WDC locked up.

jens

9th June 2009, 11:11

Barrichello seems a bit too desperate after things have started going wrong. In Australia it was quite a similar story after a poor start. And also becoming a #2 driver once again hasn't done any good to Rubens' racing mentality.

Ari

9th June 2009, 11:17

Rubens into Vettel.

Knock-on

10th June 2009, 14:58

Tell you what, Piquet is a better racer than Rubens ever was or will be, he just didn't have the luck to be in the right team and the right time.

Thanks for that insight!!

I was just remembering how Rubens used to be on par with Schumacher and was often faster than him.

Good thing NP wasn't Schumys team mate otherwise MS would never have won a championship :D

ioan

10th June 2009, 15:28

I was just remembering how Rubens used to be on par with Schumacher and was often faster than him.

Often, in your wet dreams!

ShiftingGears

10th June 2009, 15:31

Often, in your wet dreams!

How else do you explain Rubens beating Schumacher on a number of occasions? Magic?

You are talking about Piquet Senior, right?

Knock-on

10th June 2009, 15:33

Do we really need silly posts like this :rolleyes:

We all know how devestating Rubens can be on his day. Practically unbeatable in fact.

Stick with facts, stop writing troll posts and keep your sexual fantasies to yourself :p

ioan

10th June 2009, 15:37

How else do you explain Rubens beating Schumacher on a number of occasions? Magic?

You are talking about Piquet Senior, right?

Maybe 3 times out of 90 = 'often' to you and knockie, to me = 3.33%.

ioan

10th June 2009, 15:38

Do we really need silly posts like this :rolleyes:

Do we really need silly posts like yours?! :rolleyes:

ShiftingGears

10th June 2009, 15:45

Maybe 3 times out of 90 = 'often' to you and knockie, to me = 3.33%.

He beat Schumacher in about 12% of their races. Far, far more than Piquet will ever achieve against Alonso, and on his day, Rubens was unbeatable. So I don't know why you're pushing the Piquet is better crap, it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard on this forum.

ioan

10th June 2009, 16:19

... and on his day, Rubens was unbeatable.

And his days were few and far between them, like every once in a year.

Dave B

10th June 2009, 17:00

I try so hard to take your posts seriously, I really do. But when you suggest that Piquet Jnr is a better driver than Barrichello you don't half make it difficult. :laugh:

Knock-on

10th June 2009, 17:42

Maybe 3 times out of 90 = 'often' to you and knockie, to me = 3.33%.

As per usual your facts are grossly wrong even if we don't take into account team orders :rolleyes:

Please try and be objective and stop setting yourself up as the forum idiot. That is not an insult but a friendly suggestion.

jens

10th June 2009, 18:27

While there is no doubt Barrichello is currently better than Piquet Jr, I still think RB appears to be past his prime. Already considering the very fact that he used to beat or at least match Mr Michael a few times, something he has failed to do with Button even for once in 2009 so far, is quite telling. And don't try to tell that Button is better than Schumi...

Bagwan

10th June 2009, 18:46

The Brawn is Button's car .
The Renault is Alonso's car .
The McLaren is Hamilton's car .

Should I go on ?

Knock-on

11th June 2009, 12:29

The Brawn is Button's car .
The Renault is Alonso's car .
The McLaren is Hamilton's car .

Should I go on ?

It's funny that people make all the excuses in the world why their chosen driver is outperforming their car and the opposite arguements when it's a driver they don't care for :p

The results are there for all to see.

Button is doing a better job in the Brawn as Schumacher did in the ferrari. Rubens and Ross are the common denominators and unlike the Ferrari era, there is no evidence that any driver is favoured at Brawn.

It isn't a case that Rubens was great at Ferrari and rubbish at Brawn. He is probably as on top of his game as he ever was and has shown some great racing this year now he has a fair crack at the whip. It's just that Jenson is doing a better job in a similar way to DC during his McLaren years.

555-04Q2

11th June 2009, 12:41

He is probably as on top of his game as he ever was and has shown some great racing this year now he has a fair crack at the whip.

I disagree. Rubens has "bumped" into more drivers this season than he has in virtually his entire career. He was an absolute joke in Turkey. He should have hung his gloves up in 2007 or 2008 and gone to DTM or the likes. He's a great guy, but he needs to move on now.

Knock-on

11th June 2009, 13:35

It isn't a case that Rubens was great at Ferrari and rubbish at Brawn. He is probably as on top of his game as he ever was and has shown some great racing this year now he has a fair crack at the whip. It's just that Jenson is doing a better job in a similar way to DC during his McLaren years.

Sorry, that last bit is rather unclear.

I ment that Jenson is doin better than his team mate and was comparing Rubens to DC in that tboth RB and DC were outclassed by various team mates although they are both good drivers.

ioan

11th June 2009, 13:50

It's just that Jenson is doing a better job in a similar way to DC during his McLaren years.

EUREKA!

Valve Bounce

11th June 2009, 14:46

Just "a fair shake of the sauce bottle". :p :

jens

11th June 2009, 15:42

Rubens and Ross are the common denominators and unlike the Ferrari era, there is no evidence that any driver is favoured at Brawn.

It isn't a case that Rubens was great at Ferrari and rubbish at Brawn. He is probably as on top of his game as he ever was and has shown some great racing this year now he has a fair crack at the whip. It's just that Jenson is doing a better job in a similar way to DC during his McLaren years.

Of course now, when Button is trashing Barrichello, RB is "in the form of his life". :p : I guess DC was performing at his very best in 2008 as well. And quite interesting is that "favouring" part. Surely, when in Ferrari Michael was given "another strategy" to beat Rubens, you would have said he was favoured? :p :

I'm afraid that with all those arguments you're trying to suppose Button is better than M. Schumacher! Let's all hail the new best driver of all times - Button! Who would have thought last year this guy is gonna be an all-time legend!! :D

Knock-on

11th June 2009, 15:56

Of course now, when Button is trashing Barrichello, RB is "in the form of his life". :p : And quite interesting is that "favouring" part. Surely, when in Ferrari Michael was given "another strategy" to beat Rubens, you would have said he was favoured? :p : I'm afraid that with all those arguments you're trying to suppose Button is better than M. Schumacher! Let's all hail the new best driver of all times - Button! Who would have thought last year this guy is gonna be an all-time legend!! :D

Come on Jens. I never said that did I?

As a natural racing driver I hold Schumacher in the highest esteem. However, he has other strengths that enhanced his natural ability such as the way he managed to model a team around him which is another trait Jenson has.

Fortunatly, jenson differs from Schumy in other areas but no point going into that and I don't think anyone will argue that Schumacher was favoured at Ferrari and Rubens had to defer to his #1 ;)

However, I can understand how people that haven't followed Jenson for years are amazed at this sudden turn of speed. I must confess to beginning to lose faith a bit myself last year but always believed that given a competent car, he would shatter peoples perception and shock a few people.

After all, even Brawn said he couldn't understand the esteem the ex Honda employees held him in until he started working with Jenson so perhaps we can forgive you "lesser" mortals :laugh:

jens

11th June 2009, 16:05

Come on Jens. I never said that did I?

Nope, I was reading it between the lines. ;) Because if we put together claim A - "Rubens is as good as ever" - and factor B - "Jenson is beating Rubens by a bigger margin than Michael did" -, then it would appear that JB is driving better than MS did, if RB's level has remained at least the same.

markabilly

11th June 2009, 17:36

that assumes the car fits RB equally as it does with JB---which is seldom possible since both have different driving styles.

Clearly car design and set up can favor one driver over another--

Indeed, even engine mapping can favor one over another, as well as different gear ratios and so forth.

If everyone were put in identical cars with identical everything, some cars would still favor some drivers over overs because of different drving styles

A few years ago I saw an in-depth anaylsis of MS and RB driving at Suzaka---for example, due to RB's braking with his right foot, it was costing at least .5 seconds per lap due to that factor alone

OTOH, RB carried better corner speeds in some corners and had higher exit speeds and acceleration earlier from those corners --and those corners seemed to favor how he drives---- which was overall giving him slightly better lap times than MS during the last practice before Qing (and if I remeber correctly, RB was almsot identical in Qing or maybe beat him--I don't remeber

ioan

11th June 2009, 20:31

Come on Jens. I never said that did I?

But you imply that and you think that. We all know you have a huge soft spot for Jenson so don't try to hide.

ioan

11th June 2009, 20:32

Valve Bounce

12th June 2009, 01:40

Stone the Crows!! This discussion is heading in a strange direction considering the thread is about donkeys. :D

Knock-on

12th June 2009, 11:31

Nope, I was reading it between the lines. ;) Because if we put together claim A - "Rubens is as good as ever" - and factor B - "Jenson is beating Rubens by a bigger margin than Michael did" -, then it would appear that JB is driving better than MS did, if RB's level has remained at least the same.

We can say that MS did a better job than RB did even with the team ordes business. I don't think anyone will dispute that.

It is also evident that JB is doing a better job than RB in equal machinary with no team orders. However, I wont say that nobody will dispute that because some people can't accept facts ;)

Now, some people will say that Rubens was a racing God when at Ferrari but since leaving, has turned into a Donkey to such an extent that he is slower than NP. That may be true but all the evidence suggests he is still blindingly quick and has been pushing Jenson hard.

As for whether JB is comparable with Schumy, I don't have an opinion as yet. It will be interesting to see how the next couple of years go if he continues to have a competitive car.