Airbus warns pilots on jet speed

[Roamy]

Well I am sure all of us know of this horrific event. There are so many unknowns here that I think we all need to get it up and go recover the black boxes which will tell us the story. I looked at some weather and route maps and this aircraft according to these was way off the safe course and right into the worst part of the storm. Although I don't know what their radar was painting for them the National services showed thing pretty clear. Also if this is potentially the most dangerous airspace in the world why don't they have radar on the islands out there. With the technology this is unexcusable.

This could change the aircraft industry. FBW I would think will come under heavy fire unless they can prove the plane broke up before electrical failures.
If you have never flown through a severe thunderstorm it is hard to relate just how fearful these are. I have been through two plus two incidents of severe clear air turbulence and I want no part of either ever again. According to the map this plane should have never been where it was and the pilot had excellent experience to ever be there albeit he did send a manual message indicating he was entering a area of severe weather.

My condolences to the families this would have been a horrific situation to be in.

[race aficionado]

For me it's a crap shoot every time I board a plane.

I know the odds are on my favor but it is obvious that we strap ourselves knowing that we have a chance of being on the news that evening.

It still amazes me that those things can actually fly but I am also aware of how cool it is that we can fly to other parts of the world in a relatively short span of time.

Forget about crossing the oceans on a boat - I'll get on a plane every time.

and as fousto says, I always hope that those that know can make our air travel safer.

And yes, my condolences to the families. It's not cool to be in that type of news in the evening.

[Sonic]

As I understand it the black boxes ping can be "heard" to a depth of 14,000 feet. With the atlantic 12,000 feet deep at the probable crash site at least the industry should be able to learn something from this disaster when they are recovered.

All I can say is it must have been one HELL of a storm. I've seen both 3rd hand (on video) and first hand just how much punishment an aircrafts wings can stand up to and for this plane to apparently fragment makes the forces involved mindblowing.

[driveace]

We really put our lives in pilots hands ,and not all pilots are quite as good as the guy who can put them down on the Hudson.BUT with modern sat navs,why does he not try go round the storm,lets take a bit longer to get there and arrive in one piece !

[Drew]

We really put our lives in pilots hands ,and not all pilots are quite as good as the guy who can put them down on the Hudson.BUT with modern sat navs,why does he not try go round the storm,lets take a bit longer to get there and arrive in one piece !

Are you serious?

I have flown quite a bit and not once have I been afraid. You put your hands in the life of the captain and the captain is extremely well trained to deal with most scenarios. But as ever accidents will unfortunetely happen, let's just hope it was an accident :)

[Valve Bounce]

First of all, when the plane disappeared from radar, it was announced that the position of the plane was unknown.

I'd like to know why planes are not fitted with a satnav so that their exact position is known and recorded at all times. If zillions of cars on earth can drive around with their exact position determined, why is it that a plane's exact position cannot be known and recorded.

The second thing is the black box information. Why can't this be transmitted, via the internet or some other means, to a ground station instantaneously?

I'd like our computer gurus here to come up with osmething because I feel that with a little bit of thought, we can forget about looking for a black box at the bottom of the sea.

[Tazio]

I flew S.D. to Baltimore two weeks ago. Never gave it a second thought!
I'm going to file this one under really bad luck.
Interested to find out what the black boxes say though,
My condolences to the families.

[Easy Drifter]

I used to travel by air quite a bit when I was involved in Pro racing. Didn't bother me at all despite a few rough moments in bad weather.
Worst was getting hit by lightning on final appraoach to Atlanta but no damage as far as I know. I was changing planes so do not know if the one hit was pulled from service for inspection or not.

[driveace]

Well have just read in the paper that the Debri found in the water is NOT from the missing Airbus!

[Valve Bounce]

Well have just read in the paper that the Debri found in the water is NOT from the missing Airbus!

Link Please!!

Considering that it was announced that two bodies and seats and a piece of metal from the plane has been found, could you elaborate on your post please. http://www.theage.com.au/world/brazil-recovers-bodies-from-air-france-crash-20090607-bzdw.html

[Tazio]

Link Please!!

Considering that it was announced that two bodies and seats and a piece of metal from the plane has been found, could you elaborate on your post please. http://www.theage.com.au/world/brazil-recovers-bodies-from-air-france-crash-20090607-bzdw.html :arrows: :p :

[steve_spackman]

My condolences to the friends and families affected...

[BDunnell]

The second thing is the black box information. Why can't this be transmitted, via the internet or some other means, to a ground station instantaneously?

The technology certainly exists to enable this. The barrier at present is the cost, which no-one has been willing to meet. Maybe this accident will change that, especially if the black boxes are not found.

[Valve Bounce]

The technology certainly exists to enable this. The barrier at present is the cost, which no-one has been willing to meet. Maybe this accident will change that, especially if the black boxes are not found.

How much would it cost to e-mail the recordings of a voice recorder to a ground computer?

[BDunnell]

How much would it cost to e-mail the recordings of a voice recorder to a ground computer?

I don't think it's quite as simple as that — this would be telemetry on a grand scale. However, I am assured by someone who is very much 'in the know' on such matters that cost remains the problem here, not the technology.

[Roamy]

you could send encrypted radio which is what they should be doing.
Also as I mentioned no radar coverage is incredibly stupid.

[race aficionado]

There is going to be mayor suing on this one.

I heard on the news that a certain piece of equipment should have been replaced by the airlines that had that particular plain model and Air France hadn't done it yet.

This replacement could have probably helped them in this emergency.


link please! :bounce:

my telly has no links!


:s mokin:

[Valve Bounce]

I don't think it's quite as simple as that — this would be telemetry on a grand scale. However, I am assured by someone who is very much 'in the know' on such matters that cost remains the problem here, not the technology.

I am sure Daniel can think of a simple cost effective and inexpensive way to do it. The trick is to get Daniel onto this thread. Maybe Eki can. Who else are the computer gurus here?

[airshifter]

I am sure Daniel can think of a simple cost effective and inexpensive way to do it. The trick is to get Daniel onto this thread. Maybe Eki can. Who else are the computer gurus here?

It is a simple communications matter, and could be handled a number of different ways. Being that voice is rarely used while in flight, most of the data would be flight data that could easily be compressed and transmitted in burst modes. The military was doing this 25-30 years ago with certain hardware.

The number of aircraft would make it more of a challenge, as frequencies that can be used are limited. Done properly the planes could be programmed to hop frequencies at certain intervals based on their geographic positions. Once the data is "on the ground" it could be sent to controlling facilities via the 'net.

I wouldn't say it would be a no brainer to do, but time and cost would be minimal as compared to the cost of operating and replacing commercial aircraft.

[Valve Bounce]

I wouldn't say it would be a no brainer to do, but time and cost would be minimal as compared to the cost of operating and replacing commercial aircraft.

...................and the cost of paying out all the damages cases for the deaths of the 220 passengers and crew. In fact, this crash could break Air France.

[Mark]

I don't think it's quite as simple as that — this would be telemetry on a grand scale. However, I am assured by someone who is very much 'in the know' on such matters that cost remains the problem here, not the technology.

The point of the black box tho, is that it keeps recording even down to the last seconds before impact. It's doubtful a telemetry system could keep doing that.

However I don't see the issue as Valve has said with a plane updating its position via satellite once every minute (for example). I'm quite surprised they don't do this already.

[donKey jote]

Just read an article in the Spiegel (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,629199,00.html), where they mention that the black box telemetry would only be of the order of a few kbit/s ... lower than standard cell phone modules. Iridium apparently even offered their satellites for this purpose a few years ago. Apart from the costs, there were privacy concerns from the pilots.
Another improvement -at least when it comes to locating the aircraft- would be to include position in the acars messages... in this crash they assume the last acars sent (catastrophic loss of cabin pressure) was on or just before impact with the ocean :s .

[rah]

AFAIK some telemetry is updated every few minutes. I assume that voice recordings would be harder to do as the bandwidth needed would be too lagre to update continously. As far as sat tracking, I am suprised that they don't already, it is used on many company vehicles at the moment and surely would not cost much to install.