15 teams confirm entries for the 13 spaces - who will miss out?

[Giuseppe F1]

Confirmed entries for F1 2010:

The FOTA team alliance have all submitted conditional entries, plus the following have all listed their entries:



1) Ferrari
2) McLaren
3) BMW Sauber
4) Renault (though could become 'Briatore-Renualt')
5) Toyota
6) Brawn
7) Force India
8) Red Bull
9) Toro Rosso

10) Williams

11) Campos Meta 1
12) Lola
13) Prodrive / Aston Martin
14) Litespeed
15) USF1




15 entries, 13 spaces - who will miss out?

I think 'Litespeed' are the least attractive entrant being brutally honest. Although, in Autosport Magazine last week, I noticed that LiteSpeed took out a fullpage ad advertising for F1 staff and they have said they have already paid the deposit for their Cosworth engine

[Giuseppe F1]

Litespeed's cars would be designed by a new company being fronted by Mike Gascoyne

[V12]

I would hope that each new entry would be judged on its merits and if all four are deemed capable, let them all in, it would have the extra bonus of "qualifying" actually regaining its former meaning where you actually have to *qualify* for the race. And with spare cars banned and teams having to reduce their amount of personnel etc. the lack of garage space doesn't fly with me anymore I'm afraid.

F1's current "franchise" model desperately needs to be binned in favour of a more open-shop approach.

[Wasted Talent]

So what has happened to USGP?

WT

[N. Jones]

According to this autosport article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75671 Campos Meta1 & US F1 have already applied for 2010.

autosport.com also says that David Richards Prodrive/Aston Martin will apply and that Lola has confirmed that they have applied.

[N. Jones]

Confirmed entries for F1 2010:

The FOTA team alliance have all submitted conditional entries, plus the following have all listed their entries:



1) Ferrari
2) McLaren
3) BMW Sauber
4) Renault (though could become 'Briatore-Renualt')
5) Toyota
6) Brawn
7) Force India
8) Red Bull
9) Toro Rosso

10) Williams

11) Campos Meta 1
12) Lola
13) Prodrive / Aston Martin
14) Litespeed




14 entries, 13 spaces - who will miss out?

I think 'Litespeed' are the least attractive entrant being brutally honest. Although, in Autosport Magazine last week, I noticed that LiteSpeed took out a fullpage ad advertising for F1 staff and they have said they have already paid the deposit for their Cosworth engine

I don't see on any of the websites I check where Litespeed applied for 2010..... what site did you see this?

[Giuseppe F1]

I don't see on any of the websites I check where Litespeed applied for 2010..... what site did you see this?

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090529152928.shtml

[Giuseppe F1]

So what has happened to USGP?

WT

Sorry, Team USF1 should be there, my bad!

Can a moderator please amend my original list to include USF1 and also please amend my thread title to change the '14' to '15' please?

Thanking you in advance

Giuseppe F1

[N. Jones]

Cool, thank you.

One question for everyone though: How many teams will the FIA accept? Are there a certain number of open spots or will they take as many as they can ( up to the limit that will fit on the grid)?

[V12]

They have said there is a limit of 13 spaces. As I said I would rather the new entries be accepted on a "are they competent enough" basis rather than a fixed number, but Bernie likes his entry caps.

[N. Jones]

Alright - next questions.

Other than Litespeed, who are using Cosworth engines, what power plant would these other teams be using?
Also, someone asked if Mercedes supplies one and keeps their other customers is that legal, to supply four teams?

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I think we can count USF1 and Prodrive in. USF1 announced their plans way before the FIA came up with the budget cup and they are already designing their cars. Also, the FIA might think an American F1 team would be a welcome addition. Just like a manufacturer (Prodrive would race as Aston Martin from 2011.)

One could make a strong case for Lola or Litespeed but I would personally give the third spot to Epsilon Euskadi. Firstly, because there already a lot of manufacturers in Britain, but none in Spain, Secondly, I would like to see Sergio Rinland in F1 again. :)

[N. Jones]

I remember reading a story that said the FIA could see three new teams next season. My prediction is USF1, Prodrive and Lola. If this doesn't happen I don't care, I just want to see a larger grid with teams in it for the long haul!

[N. Jones]

AH! According to the official F1 website there will be a total of three new teams and they will be revealed on June 12th.

[Somebody]

Also, someone asked if Mercedes supplies one and keeps their other customers is that legal, to supply four teams?

Yes. And no.

Basically, as it stands, it requires Agreement from everyone else to allow an engine manufacturer to supply more than two (2) teams - including their own team, if they have one. It's conceivable that either the 2010 regs have been adjusted to revise this upwards, or that such Agreement will be forthcoming.

What's interesting in Merc's case is that they have a cast-iron agreement to supply Force India, they will apparently be supplying Prodrive (originally, Prodrive was going to be a full McLaren B-team, but that got scaled back when customer cars were banned), they currently supply Brawn (albeit on a one-year deal) and there were strong rumours a month or two ago that Red Bull Racing were in serious negotiations with Merc over an engine supply next year, possibly at Brawn's expense.

I think five teams would probably be too many, and even four might be pushing it...

[Sleeper]

I remember reading a story that said the FIA could see three new teams next season. My prediction is USF1, Prodrive and Lola. If this doesn't happen I don't care, I just want to see a larger grid with teams in it for the long haul!
If I was a betting man those are the ones I'd bet on, though Campos seem a stronger candidate since Dallara were anounced as their designer/constructer.

[christophulus]

I'll second the votes for USF1 (pretty much certain for me, given the lack of any American representation in F1), along with Prodrive and probably Lola.

Campos/Dallara and Litespeed with Gascoyne etc onboard could be dark horses. Glad to see there's going to be some competition for places though.

[jarrambide]

Sorry, Team USF1 should be there, my bad!

Can a moderator please amend my original list to include USF1 and also please amend my thread title to change the '14' to '15' please?

Thanking you in advance

Giuseppe F1

Done.

[UltimateDanGTR]

AH! According to the official F1 website there will be a total of three new teams and they will be revealed on June 12th.

problem is, If toyota and renault pull out-we are left with 11 teams-surely itll be too late for other prospective entrants to join-I think just let them all in-yay for 30 cars! :D works in nascar with 43......

[N. Jones]

Yeah, that would be a bummer - gain three, lose two, but all of the teams from this year signed up for next year, so at least we have that.

[VkmSpouge]

Personally I would prefer Prodrive, US and Litespeed to gain the three available slots.

[CNR]

So what has happened to USGP?

WT

usf1

Q: how soon can they put a team together peter windsor said that they have been working on usgp(usf1) for 4 years

[CNR]

Q:will prodrive be overlooked because of the pull out in 2007 for last year

[CNR]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=329942


Sports car builder (http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=329942#) Lola Racing bills itself as the largest-selling customer race car supplier in the world. The company's closest association with F1 was the Haas Lola team that entered the 1985 and 1986 championships. That team was founded by Carl Haas and Teddy Mayer and was not a Lola factory-backed team.



Litespeed is an English Formula Three team whose principal, Nino Judge, worked in F1 as an engineer. BBC Sport reported Litespeed will work with the Mike Gascoyne-led MGI Ltd. Gascoyne worked for a half-dozen F1 teams, including as technical director for Jordan, Renault and Toyota.

http://www.litespeedf3.com/home.html


‘We are delighted that MGI is on board with us – their expertise, experience and
understanding of potential pitfalls are invaluable to any team to which they put their
name and professionalism. MGI will be working to Litespeed’s brief and will act as
technical consultants to the team.
‘Litespeed’s commitment to technical development within motorsport is already well
documented through our undertakings in British F3 and the fact that we have taken
the initiative a month ahead of the announcement of the successful team applicants
on 12th June demonstrates our steadfast attitude towards F1. By the middle of June
we will have a fully schemed F1 chassis.’
Both Nino Judge and Steve Kenchington have previous experience of the F1 circuit.
Judge worked in aerodynamics and R&D structure testing for Team Lotus F1 from
1989-91, whilst Kenchington was one of the originators of ‘Lotus Active’ and was
responsible for control systems at Lotus Engineering for 21 years.


Prodrive is headed by David Richards, who replaced current Renault team principal at Benetton in 1997 and guided BAR Honda to second in the 2004 FIA Constructors' Championship. Richards bought Aston Martin from Ford in 2007 and with backing by Kuwait's investment bank, Dar Capital, is expected to give the marque its first F1 team.

[V12]

The ill-fated 1997 effort was the only "works" Lola effort to date. All previous forays were commissioned by Reg Parnell, BMW, Honda*, Graham Hill, Carl Haas**, Larrousse and Scuderia Italia.

* Not officially known as a Lola even though they were responsible for the car.
** Officially known as a Lola even though they were not responsible for the car (!!!!)

[maximilian]

For completeness sakes, with the last moment entry by March, now we have:

1) McLaren
2) Ferrari
3) BMW Sauber
4) Renault
5) Toyota
6) Brawn
7) Force India
8) Red Bull
9) Toro Rosso

10) Williams

11) Campos Meta 1
12) USF1
13) Lola
14) Prodrive / Aston Martin
15) Litespeed
16) March

I said this in the March thread, but I would surely love to see them raise the maximum number of allowed entries to let them all in... 32 cars, how sweet would that be? The 12 currently lowest ranking cars in the championship in a 1-hour pre-qualifying shootout on Friday (which doubles up as additional testing time for the teams in question), with the top-6 from that, let's say, 1-hour heat making it to the race, anyone?

[Nikki Katz]

I'd actually love there to be no cap on the teams, and have televised pre-qualifying sessions if necessary. I think that this is unlikely though.

I also think that the FIA haven't quite made up their mind on how to act on the conditional entries. If they were all rejected then this would leave 7 teams, which isn't really enough, especially as most of them would be small teams. They could use the situation to settle old scores though, such as disallowing McLaren.

Something just tells me that I don't think there'll be as many as 13 teams next year, but we'll just have to wait to see how this one plays out.

[maximilian]

I also think that just because these teams entered doesn't necessarily mean they'll make it to the grid. I can see Lola and Litespeed already falling by the wayside, due to the possibly raised spending cap and not enough funding. Toyota may STILL pull out at the end of the season, as may or may not Renault. Sure would be terrible if we end up with 22 cars, because Toyota eats up a slot now, bumping another team, and then they pull out. Although, I could also envision one of the new entries taking them over a la Brawn/Honda.

[Hondo]

I don't know if the 9 remaining FOTA teams are entered for 2010 or not. I can't recall Max or the FIA ever speaking about a "conditional" entry form. If "conditional" entries are ok, then why wait until the last day to enter? Why suspend Williams or is Williams officially entered and other 9 are entered to FOTA's thinking but not necessarily officially entered by the FIA's standard. Does anybody have the FIA rule sections that provide for conditions set by the entrants to be honored by the FIA?

I don't know that Max has changed anything in writing and have seen no proof that he will. It may take Max a few months to decide "conditional" entries are not legal entries at all.

Nothing has changed.

[markabilly]

I say let it be based on who wins and who do not....only limit the grid by the ten percent rule and let it all rip loose

No more guranteed money...it all goes into a big pot that is split up at the end of the year, based on :eek: ...... :eek: (OH MY GOD). :eek: ... :eek: ..results only :eek:

[CNR]

is it 9 teams or 1 teams as FOTA’s decision to lodge a collective entry for the 2010 World Championship does not mean that the teams accept the FIA’s proposed budget cap.
1st entry
FOTA
1) McLaren
2) Ferrari
3) BMW Sauber
4) Renault
5) Toyota
6) Brawn
7) Force India
8) Red Bull
9) Toro Rosso

2nd entry
10) Williams
3rd entry
11) Campos Meta 1
4th entry
12) USF1
5th entry
13) Lola
6th entry
14) Prodrive / Aston Martin
15) Litespeed
7th entry
16) March

http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/fota-not-accepting-2010-budget-cap/
FOTA not accepting 2010 budget cap (http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/f1-news/fota-not-accepting-2010-budget-cap/)


Ferrari team boss Stefano Domenicali has stressed that FOTA’s decision to lodge a collective entry for the 2010 World Championship does not mean that the teams accept the FIA’s proposed budget cap.
The remaining nine teams joined Williams in submitting their entries for the 2010 season on Friday, however, the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) confirmed that the entry was conditional on a new Concorde Agreement being signed before 12 June, as well as regulations based on the 2009 season.
Stefano Domenicali has stressed that this does not mean the teams accept the FIA’s proposal for a budget cap in 2010, which they say would damage the sport by creating a two-tier system.
“Absolutely not,” he replied when asked if the teams may eventually accept the cap. “The request to make the 2009 regulations the starting point, means there will be no budget cap.
The conditional entry allows FOTA to challenge the proposed budget cap and push their agenda for achieving a more sustainable sport through the standardisation of key components on the car, and a redistribution of revenue.
“[Cost cutting] should be done by implementing a self-regulating procedure within FOTA, so that the body itself and the teams carry out the monitoring,” said Domenicali. “We know exactly what must be done and we can do it on our own, as can be seen from what has been achieved so far. In fact, this is exactly what has been happening for years as regards testing, where it is the teams that have reached an agreement among themselves to manage the situation and it works well.”

[V12]

I said this in the March thread, but I would surely love to see them raise the maximum number of allowed entries to let them all in... 32 cars, how sweet would that be? The 12 currently lowest ranking cars in the championship in a 1-hour pre-qualifying shootout on Friday (which doubles up as additional testing time for the teams in question), with the top-6 from that, let's say, 1-hour heat making it to the race, anyone?

Sorry but that is too much of a sensible and logical suggestion to ever be considered by the powers that be. They'd rather restrict the number of entrants so that the 12 or 13 "franchises" can retain their "value". :down:

Pre-qualifying was the best.

[Hawkmoon]

Which new teams will we see? None, with the possible exception of USF1.

All these entries are based on a budget cap which, in my opinion, will not happen. Without a budget cap these teams haven't got a hope in hell of getting onto the grid in Australia let alone funding a full season.

There is no way the FIA will cut it's own throat and refuse to accept the FOTA teams. To do that they are going to have to compromise and that means no budget cap which means no new teams.

Besides, a budget cap is completely unworkable. What happens if a team breaches the cap? Deduct points? Fine them? Disqualify them? We'd have a championship decided by the accountants at the end of the season.

I would like to see more teams enter but not at the expense of the current teams and that's what will have to happen if these new entrants are to get a start.

[Valve Bounce]

I don't see on any of the websites I check where Litespeed applied for 2010..... what site did you see this?

Here:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/king-david/lightburn-zeta-1964-1.jpg

Budget cap no probs - they expect to come in well under the budget cap.

[VkmSpouge]

Which new teams will we see? None, with the possible exception of USF1.

All these entries are based on a budget cap which, in my opinion, will not happen. Without a budget cap these teams haven't got a hope in hell of getting onto the grid in Australia let alone funding a full season.

That's not really how the budget cap is supposed to work. If there was not a budget cap in F1 then these new teams could probably still season out an entire F1 but would not be very competitive.

[VkmSpouge]

Add another potential new entry to the list. Team Superfund have lodge an entry with Alex Wurz as their team principal and wanting to use Cosworth engines according to Autosport.com.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75753

[Hondo]

I wouldn't bet on the 9 remaining FOTA teams being officially and legally entered as perscribed by the FIA yet. What is this "conditional" entry and how, if at all, is the FIA bound to recognize their entry?

I think Max will wait awhile to look over his new entries. Next, the FIA will announce the FOTA 9 entries as invalid due to irregularities in their entry applications. They will be offered the chance to resubmit individual entries along with the required late fees. The grid for 2010 will be Williams, all of the new teams, and the balance of the field will be culled from the FOTA 9.

The FIA hasn't agreed to any changes in writing and I'd bet some of the FOTA 9, like Williams, have contract obligations to fufill by being in F1 next year.

[N. Jones]

Here:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/king-david/lightburn-zeta-1964-1.jpg

Budget cap no probs - they expect to come in well under the budget cap.

Got it. Thank you.

[Garry Walker]

quality not quantity.

I have no interested in seeing comedy teams join F1.

[DazzlaF1]

HOW I RANK THEM

1. USF1 - In the works for a long time, should get the nod
2. Lola - Have past experience and now with Martin Birrane, they have good money
3. Prodrive - Lofty ambitions plus the prospect of the aston martin brand coming in is very appealing to F1
4. Campos - They have the cash to pull it off but would they allow them to enter with a Dallara chassis? i dont think so.
5. Litespeed - The Mike Gascoyne link is promising but any backing?
=6. March - Experience yes but what about funds?
=6. Superfund - Money yes but has the noises of "rush job"

[Hawkmoon]

That's not really how the budget cap is supposed to work. If there was not a budget cap in F1 then these new teams could probably still season out an entire F1 but would not be very competitive.

These teams are placing entries on the basis of a budget cap, and a pretty small one at that (by F1 standards at least). Take away the budget cap and they will withrdaw their entries because they know they can't afford to compete in an uncapped season. Lola even had to rethink their entry when the cap was raised slightly. Take away the cap and they quit on the spot.

We won't be seeing any of these teams unless Max wants to replace Ferrari, McLaren etc with Campos and Team Superfund. Even Max isn't that stupid.

[Valve Bounce]

I am hoping that this won't be so. A bunch of privateers running on a shoestring budget headed by Williams and getting plastered by Williams running a poor man's F1 competition.

The big guns like Ferrari either running in a different competition or giving up racing altogether for 1 year to see which way the wind blows : regarding circuits and how uncompetitive the new budget F1 comp is.

There will probably be enough hopefuls to run a comp initially before some of them go bust when the sponsors realise that they are getting nothing back for their endorsements.

Right now, it doesn't sound very encouraging. :( Don't know which drivers will turn up either.

[CNR]

HOW I RANK THEM
=6. Superfund - Money yes but has the noises of "rush job"

not sure this may be a team that went under the radar
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75753


AUTOSPORT understands that Superfund has been in serious discussions with the FIA already, that planning for the project is at an advanced stage, and that it has been in contact with key personnel. The team is waiting until it has secured its entry before it begins acquiring assets and staff however.

[Hondo]

Although the veteran F1 purist may view the new teams with distaste, others will see a different picture. They are going to see packs of fairly even cars bumbling around the track in a herd, trying to pass each other with the unpredictability of being new constantly reshuffling the results. They may like it. They may enjoy seeing the day of the predictable long parade with the easy to guess finishing order come to an end.

I don't believe the FIA will recognize the FOTA 9 entry. The FIA does have Williams and 7 new teams signed up at present. Max only needs 2 more to go racing. I could see the Red Bull teams breaking loose and sending in their entries seperate from FOTA. They have a global product, aimed at active, sports-minded people, their product is affordable to just about everyone and they seem to enjoy racing. The new F1 may be a dream market for Red Bull.

[CNR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde_Agreement


The Concorde Agreement is a contract between the FIA (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/FIA), the Formula One (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Formula_One) teams (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_constructors) and Formula One Administration (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Formula_One_Administration) which dictates the terms by which the teams compete in races and take their share of the television revenues and prize money. There have in fact been five separate Concorde Agreements, all of whose terms were kept strictly secret: The first in 1981, others in 1987, 1992, 1997, and 1998, and the current agreement in 2007. However, the secrecy was broken by noted racing journalist Forrest Bond (http://www.motorsportforums.com/w/index.php?title=Forrest_Bond&action=edit&redlink=1) when the 120+ page 1997 Concorde Agreement was published in 2006 by RaceFax.[1] (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/#cite_note-0)
The effect of the agreements is to encourage professionalism and to increase the commercial success of Formula One. The most important factor in achieving this was the obligation of the teams to participate in every race, hence making the sport more reliable for broadcasters who were expected to invest heavily to acquire television broadcast rights. In return the teams were guaranteed a percentage of the sport's commercial revenue

Q: what if Ferrari had an escape clause in the Concorde Agreement


In 1995 the FIA decided to transfer Formula One's commercial rights from FOCA to Formula One Administration (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Formula_One_Administration) for a 14 year period. In exchange, Ecclestone would provide an annual payment. McLaren (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Team_McLaren), Williams (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/WilliamsF1) and Tyrrell (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Tyrrell_Racing), protested by rejecting the proposed Concorde Agreement (negotiations for which started as early as 1993). Ken Tyrrell (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Ken_Tyrrell) in particular was enraged by the fact that Ecclestone, as President of FOCA had negotiated the transfer of the rights from the organization to his own company. Tyrrell also objected to the addendum to the Agreement being secret, arguing that secrecy surrounding the agreement benefited only Ecclestone (by weakening the bargaining power of the other parties).
The three teams refused to sign the proposed Concorde Agreement, initially with the support of the remaining teams. However on September 5, 1996 the new Concorde Agreement was signed by all the teams except McLaren, Williams and Tyrrell. The agreement was to run from January 1, 1997 to 2002.

with the Formula One Administration (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Formula_One_Administration) 14 year period is up and if the teams are not in f1 would this void the Concorde Agreement
Ferrari (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Scuderia_Ferrari) announced it has signed an extension to the 1997 Agreement to expire on 31 December, 2012

[cosmicpanda]

This whole situation makes me laugh helplessly.

According to Pitpass, the FOTA teams might have invalidated their entries, which would result in an almighty scrap to be in F1 next year (seriously, do they really want to leave? I think not.)

Otherwise, they've signed up under the budget cap, which will piss them off.

Either way, Max has won. :)

[wmcot]

Although the veteran F1 purist may view the new teams with distaste, others will see a different picture. They are going to see packs of fairly even cars bumbling around the track in a herd, trying to pass each other with the unpredictability of being new constantly reshuffling the results. They may like it. They may enjoy seeing the day of the predictable long parade with the easy to guess finishing order come to an end.

I don't believe the FIA will recognize the FOTA 9 entry. The FIA does have Williams and 7 new teams signed up at present. Max only needs 2 more to go racing. I could see the Red Bull teams breaking loose and sending in their entries seperate from FOTA. They have a global product, aimed at active, sports-minded people, their product is affordable to just about everyone and they seem to enjoy racing. The new F1 may be a dream market for Red Bull.

Max has yet to play his hand, but you may well be right according to PitPass:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38040

Williams have signed and Ferrari have a contract through 2012. I don't know the details of Ferrari's contract, but I can see a long legal battle ensuing.

Perhaps a quick lynching of Max would speed things along! (Just hire some prostitutes and dress them appropriately to convince him that the hangman's noose is a "game.")

[CNR]

Max has yet to play his hand, but you may well be right according to PitPass:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38040

Williams have signed and Ferrari have a contract through 2012. I don't know the details of Ferrari's contract, but I can see a long legal battle ensuing.

Perhaps a quick lynching of Max would speed things along! (Just hire some prostitutes and dress them appropriately to convince him that the hangman's noose is a "game.")

FROM WHAT I CAN WORK OUT it is the Concorde Agreement

Ferrari (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Scuderia_Ferrari) announced it has signed an extension to the 1997 Agreement to expire on 31 December, 2012

[Somebody]

Actually, there is at least one mistake in that PitPass piece - there is the option to enter under the budget cap OR NOT regardless of anything else the teams have done (the now-infamous "two-tier" regs, if you remember)

[Mark]

Last time we had pre-qualifying, not all the teams took part in it, as I remember the top teams didn't have to go through pre-qualifying, then after that there were (I think) 4 places reserved in qualifying proper for those cars who pre-qualified, but even then there were more attempting to qualify than there were places on the grid.

The problem I see at the moment is that there is unlikely to be enough garage space at all the venues (especially Monaco) for 15 teams, so they are going to have to limit the number of starters to the number of cars that can be safely pitted, although since they won't have to deal with fuel rigs next year, that simplifies matters.

It might end up in qualifying that some teams have to work under awnings in the paddock if that track doesn't have garages for them.

But I would certainly love there to be full grids again, at least 26 cars starting with some failing to qualify. Sure, they might not be challenging for wins, but sometimes the mid-pack action is just as exciting.

[maximilian]

One more list for completeness sakes, now with news of Superfund and Brabham's entries. Do you think those will be the last ones we find out about?

1) McLaren
2) Ferrari
3) BMW Sauber
4) Renault
5) Toyota
6) Brawn
7) Force India
8) Red Bull
9) Toro Rosso

10) Williams

11) Campos Meta 1
12) USF1
13) Lola
14) Prodrive / Aston Martin
15) Litespeed
16) March
17) Superfund
18) Brabham

How do you guys think the chances are that one or 2 of these new teams actually ends up taking over an old team? As in, Prodrive may assume the assets of Toyota, if they indeed pull out, and/or Toro Rosso being sold off to another, as Red Bull had been rumored to do in the past anyways?

[DazzlaF1]

Last time we had pre-qualifying, not all the teams took part in it, as I remember the top teams didn't have to go through pre-qualifying, then after that there were (I think) 4 places reserved in qualifying proper for those cars who pre-qualified, but even then there were more attempting to qualify than there were places on the grid.

The problem I see at the moment is that there is unlikely to be enough garage space at all the venues (especially Monaco) for 15 teams, so they are going to have to limit the number of starters to the number of cars that can be safely pitted, although since they won't have to deal with fuel rigs next year, that simplifies matters.

It might end up in qualifying that some teams have to work under awnings in the paddock if that track doesn't have garages for them.

But I would certainly love there to be full grids again, at least 26 cars starting with some failing to qualify. Sure, they might not be challenging for wins, but sometimes the mid-pack action is just as exciting.

I think you had to be in the top 13 of the cosntructors championship to be exempt from pre-qualifying, but if i were to put a limit, i would go for 15 teams (30 cars) which would bring back the possibility of DNQ's and with the knockout system in qualifying, it would add an extra challenge for the front running drivers to get round in one piece to prevent themselves from missing the cut and with it, the race. That would make qualifying even more interesting.

[jens]

I think it's extremely difficult for FIA to totally reject FOTA, because if FOTA decides to form it's own series, then to be honest, F1 is screwed and dead. Outside FOTA we've got only 8 candidates and among them I guess some wouldn't reach the 2010 grid anyway. But we will see, how will it get played out and who will yield before (Max vs FOTA).

I think we shouldn't dream about 13 teams in 2010. Either FIA declines or accepts FOTA's "conditional entry" - and in latter case for accepting the rules must be altered, which means that the new teams won't join anyway as 'budget cap' is the key for their entrance.

[N. Jones]

One more list for completeness sakes, now with news of Superfund and Brabham's entries. Do you think those will be the last ones we find out about?

1) McLaren
2) Ferrari
3) BMW Sauber
4) Renault
5) Toyota
6) Brawn
7) Force India
8) Red Bull
9) Toro Rosso

10) Williams

11) Campos Meta 1
12) USF1
13) Lola
14) Prodrive / Aston Martin
15) Litespeed
16) March
17) Superfund
18) Brabham

How do you guys think the chances are that one or 2 of these new teams actually ends up taking over an old team? As in, Prodrive may assume the assets of Toyota, if they indeed pull out, and/or Toro Rosso being sold off to another, as Red Bull had been rumored to do in the past anyways?

What website announced that Brabham has submitted an entry as I cannot find it anywhere?
Also, I see that autosport.com says that March submitted an entry but I do not see a confirmation from anyone assoicated with March who has confirmed.

The only confirmed ones I can find are USF1, Prodrive, Litespeed, Lola, and Superfund.

[Somebody]

What website announced that Brabham has submitted an entry as I cannot find it anywhere?

Here:

https://twitter.com/Jamesallenonf1/status/2007507731
"A Swiss magazine is claiming that the Brabham name has been entered for 2010 F1 championship, by the guy who owns Super Aguri assets."

[ArrowsFA1]

So...Ferrari are contracted to race, Williams have entered and with (apparently) 8 new teams signing up to Budget-F1 Max has a grid of 20 cars for 2010 without needing the rest of the FOTA teams...

[V12]

I'm going to assume that March and Brabham probably won't happen - and that probably one of Campos, USF1, Lola, Prodrive, Litespeed and Superfund won't get it together for whatever reason (lack of funding, lack of time, etc), but I think 15 teams and 30 cars would be great, a fairly manageable number while giving the term "Qualifying" back it's old meaning.

And of the six entries (apart from March and Brabham), they all have something about them:

Campos - Experienced (and successful) team owner, apparently quite independently wealthy. Has never built his own car but then neither had Eddie Jordan before entering F1.

USF1 - Been in the works a long time so should be fairly well prepared for a debut, has the whole "representing the US" angle/USP.

Lola - World renowned constructor of single seater racing cars, so while funding and getting a racing team together will be important, at least the chassis should be solid.

Prodrive - Record outside of F1 speaks for itself, and you could say within F1 too if you count the Richards/BAR years.

Superfund - Late announcement and a bit of a dark horse, but at least they'll be solidly backed financially by a company with a decent track record of motor sport sponsorship.

Litespeed - A VERY dark horse, but I'd back an F3 team, particularly a non-Dallara user, over a GP2, FR3.5 or any other spec-car series team, they must have some sort of experience with car development. And they are rumoured to be linking up with Gascoyne's organisation.

Like I said, probably at least one of these will fall through, but if four or more can pull it off, they should all be welcomed.

[DexDexter]

Lola - World renowned constructor of single seater racing cars, so while funding and getting a racing team together will be important, at least the chassis should be solid.
.


I know it was discussed before but, again, what makes you think Lola can design a good chassis now since 1993 and 1997 their cars were embarrassing. Any news on who is going to design the car?

[Sonic]

I know it was discussed before but, again, what makes you think Lola can design a good chassis now since 1993 and 1997 their cars were embarrassing. Any news on who is going to design the car?

This may be over simplistic but how hard can it be? GP2 cars were just 5 seconds shy of F1 pace at the last GP. So surely with just a GP2 chassis clone, a decent cossie engine and some F1 boots anyone could build a car that could hang on to the back of the field and not be totally humiliated.

I think it extreemly unlikely that any of the new entries would be anywhere near as skin crawlingly bad as some of those early '90's entrants.

[DexDexter]

This may be over simplistic but how hard can it be? GP2 cars were just 5 seconds shy of F1 pace at the last GP. So surely with just a GP2 chassis clone, a decent cossie engine and some F1 boots anyone could build a car that could hang on to the back of the field and not be totally humiliated.

I think it extreemly unlikely that any of the new entries would be anywhere near as skin crawlingly bad as some of those early '90's entrants.

Ask Mclaren :)

[nigelred5]

here's an option I actually like. Allow the teams to compete with a single car/ driver for the race. Sure, they would lack half of the amount of track data but it would address the lack of pit space, It would limit their budget, fill out the field, and give the teams experience towards a full entry in the future. They would have to commit to the entire season of course, but the demands on a start up team could be minimized.

[V12]

I know it was discussed before but, again, what makes you think Lola can design a good chassis now since 1993 and 1997 their cars were embarrassing. Any news on who is going to design the car?

The original plan was for Lola to enter in 1998 and announced their decision to enter towards the end of 1996 IIRC. Then Mastercard insisted on a 1997 debut, so the T97/30 was hurriedly developed, never even saw the inside of a windtunnel, and I believe the only pre-season testing they had time to do was straightline testing for systems checks and so on.

Contrast that with Stewart who announced at the end of 1995 and started in 1997, they had virtually a whole year ahead of Lola (besides the point of having a more powerful engine) and it showed.

Lola currently say they are working on an F1 design for 2010. This time 13 years ago they weren't this far along with their program.

Don't get me wrong, they won't bring a world-beater, but I don't see them embarrassing themselves on that side either. Their major weaknesses are likely to be organisational (unless they partner with an existing racing team).

1993...well virtually every constructor has designed a duffer in their time, and mating F3000 technology to a big Ferrari V12 probably wasn't their brightest idea ever.

Plus they are a different company to what they were in the mid-90s really, with different ownership. At the time they were being spanked by Reynard in IndyCar/CART, and F3000 (until the stupid spec formula came in in 1996).

Add to the above...

Their still-born 1994 F1 car, which Alan McNish tested at Silverstone, was a much more promising design. It died a death due to a total lack of sponsorship.

The Mastercard car was basically a 1996 F3000 chassis with a Judd bolted in the back....but ten years previously the same concept hadn't been too bad with the Larousse-Lola venture. March (Leyton House pre-Newey era) did much the same thing with their 1987 F1 entry.

When I say "not too bad" I mean "acceptable" and "unembarrasing". The Mastercard Lola was both unacceptable and embarrasing, but was born out of a rush bodge job and to judge Lola solely on the basis of that would be unfair.

[maximilian]

I'm going to assume that March and Brabham probably won't happen - and that probably one of Campos, USF1, Lola, Prodrive, Litespeed and Superfund won't get it together for whatever reason (lack of funding, lack of time, etc), but I think 15 teams and 30 cars would be great, a fairly manageable number while giving the term "Qualifying" back it's old meaning.

Indeed the compelling thing about these entries so far is, that there seems to be something speaking for each one, which you have listed. I would not really write off Brabham and March yet, though... the guy behind Brabham apparently owning the leftover assets from Super Aguri makes it a viable operation. And March... I just have this feeling that with the Mosley ties to that name, they may already have an inside connection into being one of the approved entrants.

[Hondo]

If there are enough customer chassis and Cosworths available, theres no telling who will end up in the show.

[nigelred5]

Wouldn't a grid of 36 F1 cars be fantastic??! There might actually be a need for all of those 100ft wide Tilke-dromes afterall!

[DexDexter]

Add to the above...

Their still-born 1994 F1 car, which Alan McNish tested at Silverstone, was a much more promising design. It died a death due to a total lack of sponsorship.

The Mastercard car was basically a 1996 F3000 chassis with a Judd bolted in the back....but ten years previously the same concept hadn't been too bad with the Larousse-Lola venture. March (Leyton House pre-Newey era) did much the same thing with their 1987 F1 entry.

When I say "not too bad" I mean "acceptable" and "unembarrasing". The Mastercard Lola was both unacceptable and embarrasing, but was born out of a rush bodge job and to judge Lola solely on the basis of that would be unfair.

Judd, wasn't it the old Ford Zetec-R V8? I forgot the Larrousse-Lolas, they were indeed more impressive. Suzuki even snatched third place in Suzuka in 1990.

[Sleeper]

Indeed the compelling thing about these entries so far is, that there seems to be something speaking for each one, which you have listed. I would not really write off Brabham and March yet, though... the guy behind Brabham apparently owning the leftover assets from Super Aguri makes it a viable operation. And March... I just have this feeling that with the Mosley ties to that name, they may already have an inside connection into being one of the approved entrants.
I'm not sure how much of those assets this guy behind the Brabham entry has, because the German company Formtech own the premises and the carbonfibre fabrication equipment (they were rumoured to be entertaining an entry for next year as well, but no news about that for a couple weeks now).

March just seem to be a name owned by the last team owner in 92 and nothing more, be it money, premesis or a team.

[Sleeper]

The original plan was for Lola to enter in 1998 and announced their decision to enter towards the end of 1996 IIRC. Then Mastercard insisted on a 1997 debut, so the T97/30 was hurriedly developed, never even saw the inside of a windtunnel, and I believe the only pre-season testing they had time to do was straightline testing for systems checks and so on.

Contrast that with Stewart who announced at the end of 1995 and started in 1997, they had virtually a whole year ahead of Lola (besides the point of having a more powerful engine) and it showed.

Lola currently say they are working on an F1 design for 2010. This time 13 years ago they weren't this far along with their program.

Don't get me wrong, they won't bring a world-beater, but I don't see them embarrassing themselves on that side either. Their major weaknesses are likely to be organisational (unless they partner with an existing racing team).

1993...well virtually every constructor has designed a duffer in their time, and mating F3000 technology to a big Ferrari V12 probably wasn't their brightest idea ever.

Plus they are a different company to what they were in the mid-90s really, with different ownership. At the time they were being spanked by Reynard in IndyCar/CART, and F3000 (until the stupid spec formula came in in 1996).
Good post V12, saves me writting that out, again!

I'd like to add that since Birrane bought them out, the companies technology base has improved to the point that it can match an F1 team like Force India, and probably ahead of Toro Rosso. Just look at how competative they're recent LMP's have been, the B08/10 pretty much spanked all other petrol prototypes last year on pure pace. So they've certainly got the technical resources and personel to do a great job, money is the only question with them.

[Powered by Cosworth]

So new applications so far:

Campos Meta 1[/*:m:3sdeerl2]
Lola[/*:m:3sdeerl2]
Prodrive / Aston Martin[/*:m:3sdeerl2]
Litespeed[/*:m:3sdeerl2]
USF1[/*:m:3sdeerl2]
March[/*:m:3sdeerl2]
Epsilon[/*:m:3sdeerl2]
N Technology[/*:m:3sdeerl2]
Superfund[/*:m:3sdeerl2]Is that everybody?

I say let 'em all in, see who has the goods to get to Aus, bring back hour qualifying and 107%

You're missing iSport and Brabham -- there are 11 known applicants so far.
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=330813

I'm not sure how much of those assets this guy behind the Brabham entry has, because the German company Formtech own the premises and the carbonfibre fabrication equipment (they were rumoured to be entertaining an entry for next year as well, but no news about that for a couple weeks now).

In fact the "Brabham" entry was made by Formtech, so you could say that Brabham does have an operational base. :D

[Hondo]

Judd, wasn't it the old Ford Zetec-R V8? I forgot the Larrousse-Lolas, they were indeed more impressive. Suzuki even snatched third place in Suzuka in 1990.


I thought the Judd was a Honda copy.

I thought the Judd was a Honda copy.

The midd-90s Judd HV was the same as the Yamaha OX10. That, in turn, was essentially a Judd GV with new Yamaha-developed cylinder heads.

Judd developed an engine for Honda (for use in CART) but never the other way around.

[rah]

I say let 'em all in, see who has the goods to get to Aus, bring back hour qualifying and 107%

Sounds good to me. Maybe some teams would not try out for every race if it became to much of a cost for them but this would shake some things up a little.

[wmcot]

So new applications so far:

Campos Meta 1[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]
Lola[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]
Prodrive / Aston Martin[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]
Litespeed[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]
USF1[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]
March[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]
Epsilon[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]
N Technology[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]
Superfund[/*:m:b3j1qjmg]Is that everybody?



Add iSport, Brabham, and Williams and you have the 2010 grid thanks to Max. If the Ferrari contract is made to stick, they should run a pathetically slow car (kind of like this year?) so they can be thrown out for non-performance!

[DexDexter]

The midd-90s Judd HV was the same as the Yamaha OX10. That, in turn, was essentially a Judd GV with new Yamaha-developed cylinder heads.

Judd developed an engine for Honda (for use in CART) but never the other way around.

If I remember correctly, Yamaha's V10 was pretty unreliable at one point so they called John Judd to help them. Judd had his own V8 and V10 engines before that, for example Scuderia Italia ran a Judd V10 in 1991 and Williams before that a V8.

[jens]

I recommend to be ready for a surprise on June 12. I certainly don't expect such solution, which many seem to base their predictions on regarding the line-ups: 10 current teams, 3 newcomers, rules are nicely settled and everyone is happy. Nah... can't be.

[Sleeper]

Autosport today ran a piece on the most likely candidates from the new entries to get into the sport next year. They included Wirth Research who build Acura's LMP cars at least suggesting they've entered, even if they havent anounced it yet.

[DexDexter]

Many of these potential new teams claim that they have the budget already in place and at the same time the current teams are losing sponsorship. Where is the money coming? My guess is from nowhere.

[V12]

I think the Wirth "entry" is more having the idea of partnering with an existing new entrant who doesn't have manufacturing capabilities, a bit like Dallara. I could be wrong though.