100 Million budget cap. are we serious?

[race_director]

A lot of rumors going around that the Budget Cap has been fixed at 100 million pounds ( roughly 125 million Dollar's) for 2010 .


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75662

I have 2 question?

1) Does it mean that teams if the agree for this cap can do all testing when ever they want, all that clause.......

2) Hasn't Max made a joke of himself by bringing this whole budget cap issue?

I think we can expect every day as private test days for big teams next year.

What a joke by MAD MAX again

[F1boat]

100 mln. is cool. I am all for it.

[methanolHuffer]

And how would they be able to police it anyhow?

Is R&D fixed for every team? I don't think so - only what's on the books and why should a team open their books to a group that would be more than happy to blackmail them and control them further?

If you were a team owner and wanted to have complete control over your interests, F1 wouldn't be the place for it.

[race_director]

Does anyone one has a NUMBER on how much ferrari/Mclaren/toyota/RB group spend on each team per year. ?

[ioan]

1) Does it mean that teams if the agree for this cap can do all testing when ever they want, all that clause.....

No, they can do all the testing they want until they run out of the 100 million! :D

[savage86]

Someone quoted on the BBC the other day that Torro Rosso around 111mil last year.

[race_director]

Someone quoted on the BBC the other day that Torro Rosso around 111mil last year.

How much was ferrari paying Schumi in 1999-2000. 40-50 million i guess. They would still protest the 100 million cap.

[Cooper_S]

Schumacher's salary at Ferrari is irrelevant... firstly because there was no budget cap back then and secondly drivers salaries are NOT included in the proposed cap

[Oli_M]

I believe the like of Ferrari, McLaren and Toyota spend around 300-400m per year. That includes driver salary etc - one of the things that (if the basics still stand) won;t be included in the cap.

Still 100% against the cap and think costs can be reduced in a much better way through better rules - but if we have to have a cap, 100m sounds like a do-able figure for next year.

[ioan]

I believe the like of Ferrari, McLaren and Toyota spend around 300-400m per year.

Even Brawn spent at least as much as that last season for this season's car!
It just shows that the cost of being good in F1 are high.
However the biggest reason for high costs is the continuous changing of the rules, which means starting over again and again.
During the 90's and early 00's the cars were evolutions of previous season's cars, there is hardly such thing in F1 nowadays.

Next years rules with no fuel stops mean a complete rework of the design is in order, again.

[Croco]

However the biggest reason for high costs is the continuous changing of the rules, which means starting over again and again.
During the 90's and early 00's the cars were evolutions of previous season's cars, there is hardly such thing in F1 nowadays.

Next years rules with no fuel stops mean a complete rework of the design is in order, again.

That's exactly what i think. FIA is trying to make things happen too quickly, they should be wiser enough to understand that a change in F1 could be best achieved with some more longterm thinking.

[CNR]

The technical partnerships would give the new teams assistance in terms of parts, particularly non-performance differentiators, as well as some design know-how.


is this the start of customer cars
Customer cars may break F1 crisis stalemate
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=329714&FS=F1

[CNR]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1189306/Ferrari-U-turn-agree-peace-deal-end-F1-civil-war.html


Ferrari are willing to accept a compromise solution, whereby all teams will operate under a £85m restriction in 2010 with the £40m ceiling coming in for 2011.
Today marks the deadline for entry into the 2010 championship, and all the existing teams - possibly other than Toyota, who are expected to announce their departure


Now it is ostensibly £85m (with no choice to opt out) for a year, but that really equates to £145m when the extras are added. For example, Kimi Raikkonen alone earns £30m a year at Ferrari

[ioan]

The budget cap isn't the only problem that needs solved.
There is a power struggle going on between Max+Bernie and the FOTA.

The 2010 rules as presented a couple of weeks ago stipulated that the teams will have no say in the technical, sporting and commercial regulations of Formula1.
I think this is a problem bigger than the budget cap that keeps being discussed over and over again.

[nigelred5]

How much was ferrari paying Schumi in 1999-2000. 40-50 million i guess. They would still protest the 100 million cap.

IIRC, Schumachers salary at that time (paid by Marlboro )was reported to be $40m

[wmcot]

The 2010 rules as presented a couple of weeks ago stipulated that the teams will have no say in the technical, sporting and commercial regulations of Formula1.



I'm not sure they have any say now if you look at how Max and Bernie are running things!

But you are correct, control of the sport is a bigger issue than the budget cap and I'm sure that's being discussed in the FOTA vs. Max meetings.

[Big Ben]

Classic... One ridiculous rule making way for a stupid one.

[wmcot]

Didn't James Hunt refer to Max as the "Great Chicken of Bicester?" Seems fitting.

[ioan]

I'm not sure they have any say now if you look at how Max and Bernie are running things!

But you are correct, control of the sport is a bigger issue than the budget cap and I'm sure that's being discussed in the FOTA vs. Max meetings.

Yep, but at least until now it wasn't written into the rules.

[Knock-on]

And how would they be able to police it anyhow?

Is R&D fixed for every team? I don't think so - only what's on the books and why should a team open their books to a group that would be more than happy to blackmail them and control them further?

If you were a team owner and wanted to have complete control over your interests, F1 wouldn't be the place for it.

Exactly.

The year after it will be about £40m. How is that going to be enforced?

The engine issue is easy. Mercedes will sell engines at a set price seeing as most of the teams will be running them by then.

The potential for abuse of this system in crazy. The winners will be the team with the best accountants.

[Sonic]

I can see some protests come the end of next season. "They won because they exceeded the cap" kind of thing.

Great just what we need - more court cases in F1.

[Knock-on]

I can see some protests come the end of next season. "They won because they exceeded the cap" kind of thing.

Great just what we need - more court cases in F1.

This will run and run.

Max will allow teams to transgress until he needs to bash one of them with a $100m fine or expulsion for a year.

It will be a bit like intellectual property. Everyone knew it was shunted from team to team when personnel moved but it was accepted until Max wanted to exact some revenge. (and I'm not defending McLaren so lets not get into the whole fiasco again :rolleyes:

These budget caps will be just another weapon for him.

[I am evil Homer]

Even Brawn spent at least as much as that last season for this season's car!
It just shows that the cost of being good in F1 are high.
However the biggest reason for high costs is the continuous changing of the rules, which means starting over again and again.
During the 90's and early 00's the cars were evolutions of previous season's cars, there is hardly such thing in F1 nowadays.

Next years rules with no fuel stops mean a complete rework of the design is in order, again.

This is the biggest problem...a cap is workable without constantly tinkering of the regs. But that would appear to be too obvious for the FIA...

[555-04Q2]

These budget caps will be just another weapon for him.

...that will be impossible to police properly :(

Mad Max, "Why did this fax machine purchased on the 27 April 2010 cost US$ 8.4 million?"

Team owner, "Its a special limited edition # 27854 of 15000000 fax machine with built in receptionist handset, paper tray and on/off button."

Mad Max, "And this entertainment budget of US$ 1.2 million at Diamonds & Pearls Estcourt Agency?"

Team Owner, "I went with a few of my technical staff from the factory to show them what a real streamline chassis is supposed to look like and bought a couple dozen while I was there."

[maximilian]

If this is the number, am I the only one who thinks we will have exactly 20 cars on the grid next year? Toyota out, Prodrive in, and the others falling by the wayside, because now their supposedly capped budgets all of a sudden doubled? All this would be a MAJOR farce. Well, it HAS been, anyways.

[Knock-on]

...that will be impossible to police properly :(

Mad Max, "Why did this fax machine purchased on the 27 April 2010 cost US$ 8.4 million?"

Team owner, "Its a special limited edition # 27854 of 15000000 fax machine with built in receptionist handset, paper tray and on/off button."

Mad Max, "And this entertainment budget of US$ 1.2 million at Diamonds & Pearls Estcourt Agency?"

Team Owner, "I went with a few of my technical staff from the factory to show them what a real streamline chassis is supposed to look like and bought a couple dozen while I was there."

I think you will be amazed how many componants and services can be attributed to "Marketing" ;)

[555-04Q2]

I think you will be amazed how many componants and services can be attributed to "Marketing" ;)

Or to driver salaries.

Ice creams - US$ 2 million

Mad Max, "Dont be rediculous, you cant buy that many ice creams!"

Ferrari spokesperson, "They dont call him the Iceman for nothing."

:laugh:

[Knock-on]

Drivers wages aren't included are they but other team personnel are.

Therefore, drivers employ "personal" engineers and pit crews. That should save a few quid ;)

Then we have the obvious such as....


Dear Supplier

We need a seasons worth of Carcon Fibre bodywork pannels and wings to the following specification.

.....

We are prepared to pay £3.62 for these parts.

Many Thanks

A. Boss

p.s. Our marketing department are very taken with your carbon fibre pens and want to purchase a box for £1,000,000.

[555-04Q2]

Drivers wages aren't included are they but other team personnel are.

Therefore, drivers employ "personal" engineers and pit crews. That should save a few quid ;)

Then we have the obvious such as....

:up: :laugh:

[Sonic]

GROAN! *hits head against wall*

Nuff said.

[race_director]

why not have 2 classification in a race. call one classification formula one. the other as formula budget.

we will have 2 winners, and 2 championship.

The formula one teams will be using 5 star hotels. the budget teams will be sleeping in the bus.

Let the formula one teams wear full pants and full sleev's . the other's wear shorts and hand sleev's (budget forced them to go for shorter cloths) :)

[mstillhere]

100 mln. is cool. I am all for it.

So am I

[mstillhere]

And how would they be able to police it anyhow?

They teams are talking about self policing. So "trust" would be the word.