FOTA suspends Williams!!

[Giuseppe F1]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75646

Williams team suspended by FOTA

By Simon Strang
Wednesday, May 27th 2009, 12:11 GMT

Frank Williams, Patrick Head and Adam ParrThe Formula One Constructors' Association (FOTA) has temporarily suspended the Williams team, following its decision to formally enter the 2010 Formula One World Championship, according to a statement released by the team.

The decision was taken during a meeting of F1's team principals at Heathrow on Wednesday.

Frank Williams, Team Principal said of the decision: "FOTA's decision, although regrettable, is understandable.

"However, as a racing team and a company whose only business is Formula 1, with obligations to our partners and our employees, submitting our entry to next year's championship was unquestionable.

"In addition, we are legally obliged under our contract with FOM and the FIA to participate in the World Championship until the end of 2012."

Full story to follow.


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http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21512.html

MAY 27, 2009
FOTA suspends Williams

Following Monday's confirmation that the team has submitted its formal entry for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, the Formula One Teams Association has today decided temporarily to suspend Williams F1 from membership of FOTA.

"FOTA's decision, although regrettable, is understandable," says Sir FRank Williams. "However, as a racing team and a company whose only business is Formula One, with obligations to our partners and our employees, submitting our entry to next year's Championship was unquestionable.

In addition, we are legally obliged under our contract with FOM and the FIA to participate in the World Championship until the end of 2012."

[ShiftingGears]

Wow.

[Ranger]

:bomb:

[555-04Q2]

For ^%$#* sakes. Why does there always have to be a problem in F1 :crazy:

[Knock-on]

Blimey, I didn't see this one coming. I got it completely wrong :(

This is not a good sign if you ask me. It raises the bar yet further.

[Garry Walker]

It raises the bar yet further.

Indeed.

[Knock-on]

Indeedy indeed.

It looks to me like Max capitulates or we might well have the prospect of F1 being descimated next year.

This is no longer posturing but a statement of war.

I wonder which way McLaren will fall because a lot could rest on their decision.

[555-04Q2]

Whichever way it goes, F1 is further tarnished thanks to politics. I'm getting rather fed up with this whole circus now.

[Garry Walker]

Whichever way it goes, F1 is further tarnished thanks to politics. I'm getting rather fed up with this whole circus now.

We have idiot mosley to thank for that.

[maximilian]

It doesn't mean a thing. Just posturing by FOTA.

Williams doesn't even care that they are suspended, so why would anyone else? :p

FOTA meeting today, but I expect a bunch of existing teams to sign up before the deadline... :dozey:

[ioan]

IMO this was important.
FOTA's position would have been laughable if Williams were still considered part of it after signing with the devil.

[gloomyDAY]

IMO this was important.
FOTA's position would have been laughable if Williams were still considered part of it after signing with the devil.Well their entry is contractual. What would Williams do if they didn't enter the 2010 championship? Get sued by investors and the FIA? They exist to race and Williams have just been caught in the middle of a tug-of-war.

[Bagwan]

Williams would still be a part of FOTA if they weren't over a barrel .
They were only suspended , not kicked out totally , so I suspect they are of the same opinion as the rest , that the FIA is too much in control .

That they signed up is good evidence of that , and that they weren't kicked out points to the same conclusion , as FOTA was and is all about unity .

The others must understand the contractual obligations attached to have made it a temporary suspension .

It was important , as I see it as showing that FOTA is still strong .

[Hondo]

Considering the lack of a a backup series for FOTA to go to, it would seem FOTA has suspended Williams from being out of work and out of business in 2010. Not much of anything else. The "falling apart" of FOTA may give the manufacturers additional excuses for getting out of F1.

[tintop]

Considering the lack of a a backup series for FOTA to go to, it would seem FOTA has suspended Williams from being out of work and out of business in 2010. Not much of anything else. The "falling apart" of FOTA may give the manufacturers additional excuses for getting out of F1.


Fascist Max has overplayed his hand and these are the first warning shots I suspect. Without F1, it would seem like there would be a lot of free tracktime out there in 2010, no need to fallback on a backup series, create your own!

As an aside it's kind of funny seeing some of the new friends of FOTA pop up here. :p :

[PolePosition_1]

We have idiot mosley to thank for that.

They're all as bad as eachother to be fair to Mosley.

[Hondo]

They're all as bad as eachother to be fair to Mosley.

When you stop and consider all the money Williams put into the development of their 90's "fully automatic, driver optional, race cars" it's kind of funny listening to the people that made it expensive complain about the expense.

I guess it's only too expensive when you're not number 1.

[Croco]

I wonder what Toyota must be thinking about this decision taken by Williams, i believe they'll think twice before continuing to supply them with engines. But also considering that there are rumors about Toyota's future, this could mean that Williams already have signed up or are in negotiations with another engine supplier.

[DexDexter]

This is a very logical decision, they broke the ranks and have no business being in FOTA anymore. Maybe they did this to survive, I don't know.

[K-Pu]

Seems an obvious move by the FOTA, but not a good sign at all...

Williams give Max waht he wants, thus making it more difficult for the FOTA to get something. But Williams had no choice so in the end this could be somewhat predictable and/or understandable.

The problem will come with McLaren... they seem to have a choice, but who knows if they have some kind of contract with the FIA which forces them to stay in F1 until 2050?

[Cooper_S]

I'm thinking Force India and Brawn GP are also in F1 solely for racing so will I suspect sign...

so FI and Brawn are also suspended from FOTA.... leaving the GPMA

[ioan]

But Williams had no choice so in the end this could be somewhat predictable and/or understandable.

They could have at least waited until Friday evening.

[ioan]

I'm thinking Force India and Brawn GP are also in F1 solely for racing so will I suspect sign...

so FI and Brawn are also suspended from FOTA.... leaving the GPMA

Let's not get ahead of the events.

[Croco]

I'm thinking Force India and Brawn GP are also in F1 solely for racing so will I suspect sign...

They can't risk going against FOTA right now because they need to secure an engine supply deal, otherwise they both will have to race with Cosworth next year. :D

[Lemmy-Boy]

This is beginning to look like CART VS IRL all over again.

As dictated in the past (by CART), management by committee will not work in modern day motor sports. There's too many self-interests that will prevent an organization to move forward. The same will happen within FOTA. The cracks are beginning to show already.

You need dictators to run a successful organization (FRANCE FAMILY, HULLMAN-GEORGE, Bernie & Max). Like the old saying goes, "you can't let the inmates run the asylum"; someone needs to be in charge.

[yodasarmpit]

This is what happens when you let the lunatics run the asylum, let the FIA run the sport and the teams run their own teams.

[ArrowsFA1]

Whichever way it goes, F1 is further tarnished thanks to politics. I'm getting rather fed up with this whole circus now.
:up:

I'd like to congratulate Max for playing the political game so well. His goals are in the process of being achieved and F1 is being pulled apart as a result.

[truefan72]

They can't risk going against FOTA right now because they need to secure an engine supply deal, otherwise they both will have to race with Cosworth next year. :D
Brawn GP secured their engine weeks before the start of the season, so I'm not sure that thinking about 2010 decisions in May 2009 is on their mind. Especially when the regs are still up in the air and everything else is unsettled.

[woody2goody]

Come on, Williams have been suspended by an organisation with next to no power. I don't see why they should be worried. I think most of the FOTA teams are a joke to be honest.

You would think that guys like Dietrich Mateschitz with RBR and STR would welcome a lower cost F1. Also, if McLaren and Ferrari keep banging on about how great they are, well why not sign up for 40m then? They would also save an astronomical amount of money.

It may take a lot of restructuring and even job losses for them to adhere to the cap, but they COULD do it. A smaller budget probably won't affect the quality of a teams' car that much. Ferrari will still build a top 3 car next year, but they will have to rely on instinct instead of pure spending power. They won't just forget how to be a good F1 team.

Why not just let the existing teams spend, say 75 million next year, and then get down to 40 for 2011. That way the teams can attempt a relatively gradual rescale while still keeping F1 close.

The new teams would have to keep to 40 million but they could make a good fist of it on that budget. They could also hire a lot of the guys who the existing teams are laying off, which would keep job losses down.

If Force India can compete to within three quarters of a second of Ferrari on 1 fifth of their budget, then the new teams would be able to compete on over 50% for just one year.

Plus, if all the teams agree on the cap, the tech regs will be equal, and there will be no more whining about a two-tier series.

[Ghostwalker]

woody2goody, because Ferrari wants Formula 1 to continue to be F1 and not some average low spec series.

[Croco]

Brawn GP secured their engine weeks before the start of the season, so I'm not sure that thinking about 2010 decisions in May 2009 is on their mind. Especially when the regs are still up in the air and everything else is unsettled.

I was referring specifically to the engines issue, in this case i do believe that in many aspects they benefit from some longterm thinking. As far as i know, McLaren/Mercedes is aligned with FOTA, so if Brawn of Force India decide to join the FIA side, continuing to supply them with engines would go against the common sense and the other teams may also think twice before negotiating with them. For this reason, i think they'll wait until the last moment or for some decision take place, before confirming their entry for 2010.

In the end, each team will do what is best for itself, just like Williams did today.

[tintop]

This is what happens when you let the lunatics run the asylum, let the FIA run the sport and the teams run their own teams.

The FIA is the asylum - and their control of the defacto F1 might be at an end.

[woody2goody]

woody2goody, because Ferrari wants Formula 1 to continue to be F1 and not some average low spec series.

Yeah, but Ferrari and others, Alonso for example saying that new teams replacing 'big' teams would devalue F1, I don't think it would. Who were Brawn GP before this season - Honda, who were STR - Minardi, Force India - Jordan/Spyker/Midland. Essentially Honda's pullout robs F1 of a 'name'. but no, we get a new name to craft their own legacy.

I heard someone, I think it was during a baseball game this week, say that when legends retire, young players come in and are expected to replace the legends. However they are there to make legends of themselves through their performances. Who says the new teams next year won't be able to do that in a couple of years?

These 'big names' are only so big because they have been around a while. hence why you mention the name Williams and people would recognise that over, say, Red bull or even BMW (as a team), even though Williams haven't won a race since 2004. I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard 'Sauber' since 2006 minus the 'BMW'.

It's not necessarily names that make F1 what it is, they just help shape the brand. Besides, Lola, Dallara, Aston Martin: pretty good motor racing names if you ask me ;)

[still missing champcar]

woody2goody, I agree with your previous post. I was thinking more along the lines of 100 million as a cap (which, I think, has now been proposed as a compromise) with technical equality for all teams. At least this will keep F1 from becoming another spec series (for now).

[ioan]

Come on, Williams have been suspended by an organisation with next to no power. I don't see why they should be worried. I think most of the FOTA teams are a joke to be honest.

I think you should stop the magic mushroom diet.

[Knock-on]

woody2goody, I agree with your previous post. I was thinking more along the lines of 100 million as a cap (which, I think, has now been proposed as a compromise) with technical equality for all teams. At least this will keep F1 from becoming another spec series (for now).

It doesn't matter what the cap is, you still have to enforce it which is half the problem.

The budget cap could be £1 but unless there is a fair way to enforce it, you will just let the teams that can cheat best win.

The budget cap could be £1 but unless there is a fair way to enforce it, you will just let the teams that can cheat best win.

Which is no different from any other previous F1 season, isn't it?

I'd like to congratulate Max for playing the political game so well. His goals are in the process of being achieved and F1 is being pulled apart as a result.

So there weren't any "politics" before Max?

Formula 1 has always had politics. Always will.

[ArrowsFA1]

So there weren't any "politics" before Max?
Did anyone suggest there weren't?

It's Max's particular brand of politics that are damaging F1, while all the time being presented as 'saving' the sport.

[tintop]

Did anyone suggest there weren't?

It's Max's particular brand of politics that are damaging F1, while all the time being presented as 'saving' the sport.

The sport has never seen the collective megalomania that is Bernie and Max. They would both rather tear it down than yield an inch to their perceived rivals. Almost everything Max does is some sort of Machiavellian calculus to enhance his power and weaken his "enemies". Pathetic to watch.

[Hondo]

The sport has never seen the collective megalomania that is Bernie and Max. They would both rather tear it down than yield an inch to their perceived rivals. Almost everything Max does is some sort of Machiavellian calculus to enhance his power and weaken his "enemies". Pathetic to watch.

Funny you bring that up. I've kind of been wondering if Tony George got kicked off the board of the IMS so that Bernie and Max would consider a USGP at the Indy Speedway again. I think one reason ovals and drag racing is so popular in the USA is because Americans want to be able to see the entire race. Indy may not be the ideal F1 track, but a paying spectator can see the entire track from his seat.

Did anyone suggest there weren't?

It's Max's particular brand of politics that are damaging F1, while all the time being presented as 'saving' the sport.

It's exactly the same "brand" of politics that Balestre used to use. Exactly the same.

It's exactly the kind of dictatorial meglomaniac brand of politics that holds F1 together.

Anyone who thinks consensus nice-guy politics will work is nothing short kidding themselves.

Whatever happens to Max, the next head of F1 better be just as devious, strong-willed, machiavellian and egotistical, because otherwise the FOTA organisation will piss away the F1 brands legacy sooner than you can say "CART".

Only the kind of politics you detest will save the sport from itself, because those lovable charitable fellows at FOTA sure as hell don't give a monkeys about anything other than their own self-improvement and self survival.

[ioan]

I've kind of been wondering if Tony George got kicked off the board of the IMS so that Bernie and Max would consider a USGP at the Indy Speedway again.

Not at all. In fact Tony George wasn't kicked off, on the contrary he is still the one running the IMS.

[ArrowsFA1]

Anyone who thinks consensus nice-guy politics will work is nothing short kidding themselves.
Whatever kind of politics we have in F1 now isn't working though is it.

The time was up for Balestre when Max and Bernie set their sights on controlling the F1.

Now, in a similar way, we have an FIA President whose time is up. The problem for the sport is that there is no new "Max 'n' Bernie" ready to step up. There are two reasons for that: 1 is the level of control exerted by Max 'n'' Bernie, and 2 is that the only alternative currently is FOTA which, made up of competitors as it is, could never run the sport alone, even if they wanted to.

However this mess is sorted, those involved need to understand that - irrelevant though fans may be in all of this - the likes of me are seeing their passion for the sport being killed off bit by bit as political "games" are being "played".

What makes it worse is that, aside from all of the politics, we have a great season going on.

However this mess is sorted, those involved need to understand that - irrelevant though fans may be in all of this - the likes of me are seeing their passion for the sport being killed off bit by bit as political "games" are being "played".

Quaint, but naive.



What makes it worse is that, aside from all of the politics, we have a great season going on.

Just as we did at the height of the FISA/FOCA war, I remember. Which goes to show that F1 politics don't do any damage to the product.

Whatever kind of politics we have in F1 now isn't working though is it.

Really? You can tell that at this stage in the posturing process?

Autosport are reporting something quite the opposite....

"The Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) has agreed to propose a system of technical partnerships for new teams to assist them in joining the grid in 2010, following a meeting between the team principals in London yesterday, AUTOSPORT has learned.

As the teams close in on an agreement with the FIA over the future regulations of F1 ahead of tomorrow's 2010 entry deadline, FOTA hopes this compromise would allow prospective new teams assistance from the established operations to compete credibly in their first seasons without having to fund a significant increase beyond the set budget cap.

FOTA is pushing for a "glidepath" approach to adopting the budget cap regulations, with a two-step reduction in expenditure in 2010 and 2011.

This would see expenditure limited to €100 million in 2010, dropping to €45 for the following season.

The technical partnerships would give the new teams assistance in terms of parts, particularly non-performance differentiators, as well as some design know-how.

The FOTA proposal is believed to stop short of allowing full-blown customer cars, something that is strongly opposed by several teams, and would be structured to ensure that the newcomers compete under the budget cap in their own right in 2011.

FOTA also discussed further ways to develop the budget cap concept, with the possibility of some commonality of non-performance differentiators still on the table in a bid to repackage the imposed limit as a programme of cost containment.

[B]Although final agreement has not been reached, it is believed that both the FIA and FOTA are confident that a resolution can be found ahead of the entry deadline[B]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75662

Yep, the politics aren't working!

[DexDexter]

Quaint, but naive.



Just as we did at the height of the FISA/FOCA war, I remember. Which goes to show that F1 politics don't do any damage to the product.

I've always wondered about the logic that messy F1 politics somehow ruin the whole thing. It seems that in the end the teams and FIA& Bernie always make a deal. What has F1 got from the current row if they make the deal? A lot of publicity, more following. It is in the news, gets airtime/newspaper coverage that most sports would love to have, even if it was about arguments or politics.

[ArrowsFA1]

Quaint, but naive.
Neither. Fact.

I've always wondered about the logic that messy F1 politics somehow ruin the whole thing. It seems that in the end the teams and FIA& Bernie always make a deal. What has F1 got from the current row if they make the deal? A lot of publicity, more following. It is in the news, gets airtime/newspaper coverage that most sports would love to have, even if it was about arguments or politics.

Exactly.