End of the discussion. Lewis. is not another SCHUMI

[race_director]

Over the last couple of years there has been a lot of noise , especially fraom the star sports idiot's like steve slatter, Chris Goodwin, alex young ( the guy who did not even race a entire season. and the only guy who could predict a race plan, while seating in studio in singapore, even though the race was being held some 10K KM away in spain ) about how lewis would be the person who is as best as schumacher.


Even though we could not really see the battle between them, since schumi got bored after conquering all the title and decided to retire in 2006. But i would personally loved to see him spank lewis on the track :) .

Anyway coming back to today's race. Lewis started from last and finished 12th, for which he has been giving statements as if he won the race.

On the other hand after the so called parking gate incident in 2006, schumi finished 5th after starting from last in MONACO.

I guess the world champion stuff he had ( what steve slater and alex young had predicted that lewis would finish in top 5 today, by charging of the field today) just do not exit. its same like jenson winning in a good car.


On the other hand Schumacher fought battle's even when he was driving a busted car in 1996-1997-2006.



SO who is the real champion ?

[GridGirl]

I'm not particually a Lewis Hamilton fan but you can hardly base the comparable greatness of him and Schumacher upon one particular race where it is extremely difficult to overtake. Lest not forgets it was a race which Lewis managed to win last year in wet conditions.

Make your comparisons when Lewis's career is over. He's not exactly down and out just yet.....just look at the career of Jenson Button.

[edv]

Lewis spent the day doing in-season testing for his team, not trying to be a schumi. Lewis and schumi are drivers from different eras.

[wedge]

Even Schumi had the odd bad days eg. 2006 Hungarian GP where he came back down to earth and looked like an idiot staying out on worn inters.

[Cooper_S]

I getting confused.. tell me again who is Jenson another of now....


So Lewis is not another Schumacher... is that meant to be some new insight... Schumacher was not another Senna... Senna was not another Fangio... Damon was not another Graham... etc, etc...

The best Lewis can hope for is to be the best Lewis Hamilton he can be... he had a bad race this weekend but he never stoped trying so well done Lewis

[45 Below]

It's a bit early for comparisons IMHO. Not even Schumi was another Schumi by a comparative stage of his career.

[CNR]

at this stage i think he is better then ralf

[Valve Bounce]

There will never be another SchM. Move on, please!!

[markabilly]

Anyway coming back to today's race. Lewis started from last and finished 12th, for which he has been giving statements as if he won the race.

?
After he won the wdc, i figured we would have all sorts of stuff sprewing forth from his mouth about how great he was, , but instead he was very quiet almost humble, afterwards, right up until he started explaining how Ryan and macLaren tricked him into beleiveing he could lie and get away with it... :confused:

now he seems to have a return of big mouth sprewing about how great and wonderful he is, even when he don't do squat.......... :rolleyes:

[airshifter]

It's a bit early for comparisons IMHO. Not even Schumi was another Schumi by a comparative stage of his career.

Excellent point. And it was many races before Mika Hakkinen even scored a first win.

And those two along with Lewis do share something, as they were often their own worst enemies on the track. Lewis virtually handed his first WDC to Kimi by pressuring himself for no reason.

[F1boat]

For now Lewis continue to follow the footsteps of JV. It is eerily similar.

[mstillhere]

The best Lewis can hope for is to be the best Lewis Hamilton he can be... he had a bad race this weekend but he never stoped trying so well done Lewis

I think that Lewis being the best that he could be and to keep in trying......leaves in a company of at least ten other people. So...nothing real special there. I agree with the first comment. The fact that he slammed and destroyed all his chances on quali day seems..well....not a big deal when all the media was talking about how "frustrated" was Kimi for "only" being second.

The mistake he made, IMO, is paramount and that's the sign that he gave up for this year. And mind you...he was the only one who had an accident like that. His toy is broken and so his willingness to win. It's too late now. who cares anymore? A little bit a la Kimi.

But from there to emphasize that the 12th spot is sooooooo not bad at all,
I don't know. If you are happy, I'll be happy too for you.... I guess,

[DexDexter]

The starter of the thread doesn't know a thing about F1 if he jumps to conclusions about Hamilton's skills based on this season. You know, we all know what's the problem: The car. It's slow and difficult to drive.

[Big Ben]

There will never be another SchM. Move on, please!!

two were enough i'd say

[CNR]

There will never be another SchM. Move on, please!!

time will tell

? Gina-Maria (born in 1997) and Mick (born in 1999)

[CNR]

two were enough i'd say

i wonder why redbull did not get him
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Stahl



Sebastian Stahl (born 20 September (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/September_20) 1978 (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/1978) in Germany (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Germany)) is a race car driver nicknamed Schumi III as he is the stepbrother of Formula One (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Formula_One) drivers Michael Schumacher (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Michael_Schumacher) and Ralf Schumacher (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Ralf_Schumacher). His mother had married their father.

[ShiftingGears]

I think many of us here are very relieved to learn that Lewis is not another Schumacher... Why on earth would a driver even want to be compared in that way?? Surely they aim to be understood in their own right? Comparing Monaco performances which couldn't be more different is a little pointless too IMO. Ferrari had by far the fastest car in 2006, whereas Mclaren do not in 2009. Schumacher had also got 15 years worth of experience by 2006 and Lewis was on his third Monaco... I could go on but not really in the mood for educating today.. I can understand this thread was started as a joke originally but people on here before long, will start to take this sort of thing seriously. The Lewis haters and the Schumi haters will come out of the woodwork and before long you have a childish rant of pointless dribble...


Pretty much.

[ioan]

Hamilton was never meant to be the next MS.

[Ranger]

Hamilton was never meant to be the next MS.

No driver is.

No driver is ever meant to be the next 'xyz' driver anyway, they carve out their own legacy.

[ioan]

No driver is.

No driver is ever meant to be the next 'xyz' driver anyway, they carve out their own legacy.

I know. I was referring to those claims we so often see from some fans.

[Valve Bounce]

Hamilton was never meant to be the next MS.

You've got that right. I used to like Lewis - he was a rookie, pitted against the double WDC in the same team and could hold his own. He is a great driver if he has a great car. But when others have a better car, he cannot cope with the situation and just crumbles.

And to compare him with SchM is just plain silly.

[Tumbo]

yes Lewis is not Michael - he doesn't take out his championship rival intentionally to try and win the championship, instead he makes a series of first race rookie mistakes to cost himself the title, while he lies to the stewards he then apologises and he has absolutely excelled since entering F1 but due to fate/fortune has until now been handed the golden key of a front-running team.

Lewis is Lewis, Schumi was Schumi.......no way were they ever going to be the same because even if Lewis dominated like Schumacher did his legacy woud be different because his style is different. The sport is better for having had both

[71minus2]

i hate this "the next......." bull.

Schumacher cant be compared to Senna
Hamilton cant be compared to Schumacher

Its stupid as the series is considerable different when the respective drivers were at their prime.

Senna was the best at his time
Schumacher had the best car for ages and was the best driver because of this.

[ioan]

Senna was the best at his time

That's arguable.

[wedge]

You've got that right. I used to like Lewis - he was a rookie, pitted against the double WDC in the same team and could hold his own. He is a great driver if he has a great car. But when others have a better car, he cannot cope with the situation and just crumbles.

Lewis can polish a piece of turd better than Button

[ioan]

Lewis can polish a piece of turd better than Button

Yep! :up:

[mstillhere]

No driver is.

No driver is ever meant to be the next 'xyz' driver anyway, they carve out their own legacy.

Yeah...but. Last year you were here and you must remember how people were already talking how Lewis was already better than MS. Lewis himself saying he was better than MS. I remember (Evil?) Homer talking how in percentage Lewis was alreday way ahead of Schumi and blah..blah..blah. The fact of matter is: the king is dead...hurray for the king. Once one dies people have to have a new one very quickly and, sadly enough, at time that would be whoever.

MS will never be replaced and if F1 continues changing any future comparisons would be totally impossible to make.

[Valve Bounce]

Lewis can polish a piece of turd better than Button

This doesn't smell right. :(

[race_director]

yes Lewis is not Michael - he doesn't take out his championship rival intentionally to try and win the championship, instead he makes a series of first race rookie mistakes to cost himself the title, while he lies to the stewards he then apologises and he has absolutely excelled since entering F1 but due to fate/fortune has until now been handed the golden key of a front-running team.

Lewis is Lewis, Schumi was Schumi.......no way were they ever going to be the same because even if Lewis dominated like Schumacher did his legacy woud be different because his style is different. The sport is better for having had both

I do not think i have ever come across a single instance when MS went and cried to the press even in 2005 or before that saying that the team and the car were never good. he always took the responsibility that it was his job to try to finish ahead regardless of what car he was driving. That's the stuff, what champions are made of. Champions do not go and cry or sit on there father's lap when they have a bad race, They move on.

[Garry Walker]

I think many of us here are very relieved to learn that Lewis is not another Schumacher...

Yeah, who would want Golden Lewis to win 7 titles and 91 races :D

[ioan]

Me...... I think the going rate is 3 world championships to make a legend these days isn't it?

A legend is more than just that.

[DexDexter]

I do not think i have ever come across a single instance when MS went and cried to the press even in 2005 or before that saying that the team and the car were never good. he always took the responsibility that it was his job to try to finish ahead regardless of what car he was driving. That's the stuff, what champions are made of. Champions do not go and cry or sit on there father's lap when they have a bad race, They move on.

On the contrary, champions are to an extent the biggest moaners, they moan and moan until they get what they want in the team. Prost certainly was like that, some say Alonso is that way as well...

[race_director]

On the contrary, champions are to an extent the biggest moaners, they moan and moan until they get what they want in the team. Prost certainly was like that, some say Alonso is that way as well...

I kinda agree with you over here. He tried to be champion in 2007 by crying over the team not supporting issue. last year he cried and won on Stewards punishing him more issue.

[Knock-on]

I have always said he should never be compared to Schumacher no matter how much you dislike him :p :

McLaren will be back on their game at Silverstone and Lewis will be troubleing the top again. Then you can get back to moaning about him always being at the top in a good car :rolleyes:

People need to learn that that there is only comparrisons. Your team mate.

Lets drag this thread up in 5 years time ;)

[71minus2]

That's arguable.

Why doesn't that surprise me? You are the only forum member i know that could start an argument in an empty house.

[GridGirl]

I kinda agree with you over here. He tried to be champion in 2007 by crying over the team not supporting issue. last year he cried and won on Stewards punishing him more issue.

I would be intersted to know the percentage of races that Schumacher won where you can directly link having the help of a team mate as a contributing factor towards achieving those wins. I suspect it would be quite subjective and pretty hard to calculate though.

MS was a great driver but there has definately been a move away from team tactics which we saw in previous years. It's much harder and a better indiator of talent when it's every man for themselves so to speak. If your beating your team mate you should be relatively happy. However drivers can't rest on their laurels because sooner or later thier team will get someone most probably cheaper and a few years younger that might just be that little bit faster. Hell they might even be a bit luckier which can be incredibly helpful in F1.

[wedge]

Why doesn't that surprise me? You are the only forum member i know that could start an argument in an empty house.

True, but I let Ioan off the hook this time round since he was referring to the Prost vs. Senna argument.


On the contrary, champions are to an extent the biggest moaners, they moan and moan until they get what they want in the team. Prost certainly was like that, some say Alonso is that way as well...

Which is probably the only reason why I like Lewis as McLaren driver. He's moaning but its emotively half-arsed without making him look bad by throwing his toys out and making the team look bad.

[mstillhere]

I do not think i have ever come across a single instance when MS went and cried to the press even in 2005 or before that saying that the team and the car were never good. he always took the responsibility that it was his job to try to finish ahead regardless of what car he was driving. That's the stuff, what champions are made of. Champions do not go and cry or sit on there father's lap when they have a bad race, They move on.

Totally true

[mstillhere]

Me...... I think the going rate is 3 world championships to make a legend these days isn't it? Plus I don't think he can be referred to as 'Golden Lewis' after his behaviour earlier in the season thank you very much... Although being a cheat is one step closer to emulating Schumacher :p

Anyway thats history, and its still extremely early in his career to be assuming he won't go on the be one of the greats... Schumacher achieved an amazing amount of race wins and WDC's but does he have the same level of respect as some of his predecessors? Probably not... He's the best there has been, but he's certainly not the greatest....

Right, I'm off to polish my Lotus.. :s mokin:

Yes he is. What I can certanly tell you is that Lewis is never going to achieve, cheating or not, what MS has achieved.

[Valve Bounce]

Why doesn't that surprise me? You are the only forum member i know that could start an argument in an empty house.

........................under a metre of wet concrete. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

True, but I let Ioan off the hook this time round since he was referring to the Prost vs. Senna argument.



Which is probably the only reason why I like Lewis as McLaren driver. He's moaning but its emotively half-arsed without making him look bad by throwing his toys out and making the team look bad.

.................like blaming the team for anything if he was at fault. You can always admire Lewis for taking the blame himself and accepting the responsibility. And he'd never tell a lie. That's why he is so admirable.

[ShiftingGears]

.................like blaming the team for anything if he was at fault. You can always admire Lewis for taking the blame himself and accepting the responsibility. And he'd never tell a lie. That's why he is so admirable.

Well played.

[AJP]

Lewis is a fine driver.
It is just silly for anyone out there to compare any driver to another.
It just does not work that way.
We will never see the likes of Schumacher again, plain and simple, the guy was a freak.
In my eyes, anyone who can get in the seat of an F1 car and drive it over a race distance is pretty close to legend status anyway.
They are few and far between.

[F1boat]

Lewis is a fine driver.
It is just silly for anyone out there to compare any driver to another.
It just does not work that way.
We will never see the likes of Schumacher again, plain and simple, the guy was a freak.
In my eyes, anyone who can get in the seat of an F1 car and drive it over a race distance is pretty close to legend status anyway.
They are few and far between.

Well said...

[wedge]

.................like blaming the team for anything if he was at fault. You can always admire Lewis for taking the blame himself and accepting the responsibility. And he'd never tell a lie. That's why he is so admirable.

That's where Lewis and Schumi are so alike. They would never dare lie to the stewards.

[Valve Bounce]

That's where Lewis and Schumi are so alike. They would never dare lie to the stewards.

They both also have 5 toes on each foot.

Over the last couple of years there has been a lot of noise , especially fraom the star sports idiot's like steve slatter, Chris Goodwin, alex young ( the guy who did not even race a entire season. and the only guy who could predict a race plan, while seating in studio in singapore, even though the race was being held some 10K KM away in spain ) about how lewis would be the person who is as best as schumacher.


Even though we could not really see the battle between them, since schumi got bored after conquering all the title and decided to retire in 2006. But i would personally loved to see him spank lewis on the track :) .

Anyway coming back to today's race. Lewis started from last and finished 12th, for which he has been giving statements as if he won the race.

On the other hand after the so called parking gate incident in 2006, schumi finished 5th after starting from last in MONACO.

I guess the world champion stuff he had ( what steve slater and alex young had predicted that lewis would finish in top 5 today, by charging of the field today) just do not exit. its same like jenson winning in a good car.


On the other hand Schumacher fought battle's even when he was driving a busted car in 1996-1997-2006.



SO who is the real champion ?

Not you because you are the biggest w**ker on this forum! Every post you do is so negative against Hamilton, why dont you just F**k off from which ever stone you came from? I know it was GPUudate.com. They closed that forum because of Twits like you. :s mokin:

[Knock-on]

Schumacher had the ideal set of circumstances behind his amazing record.

He had what is considered the dream team in tearms of personnel.
He had a car that if not the best, was not far off it most the time.
He is an exceptionally gifted racing driver.
He and Ferrari were favoured by both the FIA and FOM.
He was a ruthless cheat at times that managed to get away with it on most occassions.
He had a team mate who although an exceptional racing driver in his own right, was paid to pay second fiddle and support Schumachers title bid.

Schumachers era was unique and I hope it remains that way. Any future "great" of the sport will have elements of the above conditions but lets hope not all.

We could do without the cheating, the FIA bias and the Lap dog.

[V12]

Nobody is the next anybody - but the drivers whose career Hamilton's has most resembled so far is Jacques Villeneuve.

Arrived in F1 as arguably the best prepared debutant in history to date.

Came second in first year in best (or in Hamilton's case, equal best) car.

Won title in second year in best/equal best car.

Occasional spirited drive in third year in what is no more than a points-scoring machine, despite staying with the same team, as the new teams of Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn come to the fore.

Of course that last point is a "so far" for Hamilton, but still.

History may regard him as something of a one-hit-wonder, but I remember that around this time 11 years ago, despite no longer being in the best car, Villeneuve was regarded as still being right in the top drawer, being masked by second-rate machinery, as Hamilton is similarly regarded now.

That's not to say Hamilton will leave McLaren, go join a new team set up by his manager (his dad in this case!), spend the next few years there for high financial reward but little sporting reward, only to be outdone by his new teammate in 2014 which sees him sit out 2015 before his career fizzles out mid way through 2017, because like I said nobody is the next anybody, but if you insist on doing driver comparisons I'd say Villeneuve makes more sense than Schuey at this moment in time. If Hamilton racks up a few more titles over the years then we can come back and talk.

[Knock-on]

Fair point V12.

I think Lewis will bounce back this year when McLaren get sorted a bit more. I think Silverstone may be a big surprise as there is a new upgrade that is supposed to see them sorting out the high speed issues they have although this is as yet unconfirmed.

If it does, then I have confidence that Lewis can get that car a bit higher than it deserves to be just as Button did a few years ago.

All in all, it is just speculation and time, as you say, will tell.

[spudrsca]

Nobody is the next anybody - but the drivers whose career Hamilton's has most resembled so far is Jacques Villeneuve.

Arrived in F1 as arguably the best prepared debutant in history to date.

Came second in first year in best (or in Hamilton's case, equal best) car.

Won title in second year in best/equal best car.

Occasional spirited drive in third year in what is no more than a points-scoring machine, despite staying with the same team, as the new teams of Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn come to the fore.

Of course that last point is a "so far" for Hamilton, but still.

History may regard him as something of a one-hit-wonder, but I remember that around this time 11 years ago, despite no longer being in the best car, Villeneuve was regarded as still being right in the top drawer, being masked by second-rate machinery, as Hamilton is similarly regarded now.

That's not to say Hamilton will leave McLaren, go join a new team set up by his manager (his dad in this case!), spend the next few years there for high financial reward but little sporting reward, only to be outdone by his new teammate in 2014 which sees him sit out 2015 before his career fizzles out mid way through 2017, because like I said nobody is the next anybody, but if you insist on doing driver comparisons I'd say Villeneuve makes more sense than Schuey at this moment in time. If Hamilton racks up a few more titles over the years then we can come back and talk.


I disagree Hamilton is better than Villeneuve was. Hamilton would have trashed a driver like Damon Hill.
Besides that, Villeneuve have been beaten badly by some drivers in the same team and I doubt that hamilton would be beaten as badly as Villeneuve by a driver in the same team.

[V12]

I disagree Hamilton is better than Villeneuve was. Hamilton would have trashed a driver like Damon Hill.
Besides that, Villeneuve have been beaten badly by some drivers in the same team and I doubt that hamilton would be beaten as badly as Villeneuve by a driver in the same team.

That's with benefit of hindsight though, I'm comparing the perception of Hamilton of today to the perception of Villeneuve on the 27th May 1998. Aside from Hill in JV's first season, the first teammate to match Villeneuve was probably Panis (occasionally) in 2001-02, the first driver to beat him was Button in 2003 and even then it wasn't as cut and dried as that, JV would sometimes be a bit quicker.

At the end of his impressive debut season there was another Hamilton = Schuey thread on here and at the time I posted that Hamilton at that point had basically achieved what Villeneuve, Damon Hill, DC and Clay Regazzoni did - an impressive first season in what was either the best or second best car over the course of the year - no more, no less.

Fair play to him he went ahead and won it in his second year, which basically mirrors what Villeneuve did so I took Hill, Coulthard and Regazzoni (who didn't) out of the equation.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that JV is a cautionary tale that no matter how much you take the world by storm in your first couple of seasons, it's no guarantee of a legendary F1 career, although that's not to say it definitely won't happen either.

We could do without the cheating, the FIA bias and the Lap dog.

Two out of three isn't a bad start though.

[Tazio]

9EHgT54Vxjs&feature=related

[jens]

Hamilton isn't the only one, who has been compared to Schumacher. Vettel has been. Räikkönen was, when he joined Ferrari. Alonso of course too. And the comparisons between MS and Button will be inevitable during the course of 2009... Should we make similar threads about all of them? ;) But at least the positive aspect is that no-one seems to perform above others like MS often seemed during his time.

I think the Hamilton-Villeneuve comparisons are a bit unfair though. Results-wise there might be a similarity so far, but not driving-wise. Hamilton is a lot better than Villeneuve in the wet, for instance. And unlike JV, I highly doubt LH will leave his team, when they are in difficulties in their 3rd season, but will rejoin the top fight sooner or later instead.

[race_director]

i do not think so button will be compared even to sutil. Sutil atleast tried hard and has shown his talent in few races over the years in a busted car. on the other hand we know what button is . It is 15 minutes of fame all due to brawn

[Roamy]

There will never be another SchM. Move on, please!!

yea I know - you can't cheat as easy now and there is no TC and no elect boxes by the TAD.

[markabilly]

make no mistake that ham is a very good driver and the team builds his excellent car around his particular skills,

OTOH when Ferrari wanted Schumi, he made them agree to make him the unofficial CEO of the team and he built the team around him, and in return perfomed very high.

Big difference is that schui did not bad mouth his team in public, did scapegoat someone on the team.....(Did you hear him at monaco cave in and then say welll nnoooww, Brawn made me lie.....or claim Todt told him to crash out JV???????????? or sit around and brag on and on about how great he is.....)

Given his power (both public and private) at Ferrari, a large part of the credit goes to him for being the quasi-team priniciple, with enough sense to delegate authority and listen to his team and people like Todt and brawn---and to always give them the credit and make it appear he worked for them----.....hence he was not merely given a great car by his team, but made the essential contribution to making it a great car

I
Indeed, the lack of having the same power is clearly the reason he turned down Riond Dennis, as mercedes clearly wanted him at Mac to drive their engines......but Ron was not willing to slide over......


if he had announced, I ain't driving for ferrari, but I am setting up my own team and car to drive.......those folks would have followed in a heartbeat....of course Ferrari would have been suing over trade secrets and all.....but still.....


Much like a Dan Gurney, Bruce Mclaren, Jim Hall, Jack Brabham of the old golden days.....

[Knock-on]

as mercedes clearly wanted him at Mac to drive their engines......

Link please?

I would have thought Mercedes wouldn't want anything to do with him after Schumacher wiped his 4rse on his Mercedes contract.