F1: 1946 - 2009

[Knock-on]

We're well into the season and a damned exciting season it's turning out to be.

Only problem is that the racing has to take the back seat to the politics and BS that governs the sport.

If the sport isn't in disrepute then I don't know what the definition is? The battle lines have been well and truly drawn and positions are solidifying. Even if Max climbs down, there will be so much resentment and negitive relations between the teams and the FIA that I cannot see the relationship continuing.

F1 may continue next year but unless Max goes, it cannot survive.

[SGWilko]

F1 may continue next year but unless Max goes, it cannot survive.

I think that is what FOTA are attempting to achieve....

[V12]

Hey you stole my signature :P

i.e. - yeah I basically agree with you.

[ArrowsFA1]

We have an FIA President, who was responsible for granting one team a veto over technical regulations, then criticising that same team for putting their interests above others in the sport.

It's sad that Mosley has brought the sport to this, but perhaps it's worse that he is being allowed to set the agenda. Until he decides whether he will seek "election" ( :laugh: ) for another term this is how it will be.

[wmcot]

Every time I Google "disrepute" I get a photo of Max! :)

(Oops, I was spelling it disrepuke...)

[Knock-on]

Hey you stole my signature :P

i.e. - yeah I basically agree with you.

Sorry V12. It wasn't on purpose.

I really feel that we have gone too far to continue with the current format and people in place.

Luca is a heavyweight that will not back down and neither will Max hence FOTA and the FIA cannot agree. Actually, I say Max wont back down but I feel he will sway to allow an agreement for 2010 but will just push through his agenda for 2011.

Whatever way it's dressed up, he will implement his vision and feck F1.

One of the fundemental issue behind this is the FIA making Ferrari bigger than the sport. They put them on a pedestal and gave more power to one team that they ever should have. Veto's, additional money, public declarations of support. By trying to manipulate and control F1 like a dictator, they have created a monstor that has bitten the hand that feeds it.

[LeonBrooke]

Only problem is that the racing has to take the back seat to the politics and BS that governs the sport.

It really seems like it's been like that for the last few years, one way or another, it grows very tiresome:

2005: BAR-Honda Imola scandal; Michelin tyres at Indianapolis
2006: Mass dampers
2007: McLaren/Ferrari Spy-gate
2007-2008 break: Renault/Mclaren spy-gate
2008: the tiresome McLaren's-being-picked-on-by-the-FIA whining from some "fans"
2008-2009 break: Honda quitting
2009: this whole budget cap nonsense

[Knock-on]

There has been a lot of controvacy over the last few years and one thing consistant in all of it is Max's hand on the tiller.

05 Honda. Max wanted to pull Honda in line so did a stitch up job involving a scavenger system used by most of the teams on the grid. Clear case of manipulating the series for his own end.

06 Renault. Dubious call but had to do something to reign in Renault.

07 McLaren. Caught with their hand in the cookie jar fair and square. However, this sort of thing has gone on ad intinitum but because of Max's vendetta against Ron.....

08 Renault. The same as Mclaren in 07 but let off with the lightest slap on the wrist.

08 and 09 McLaren. Various spurious decisions against the Woking team and drivers. Suddently Ron leaves and the vendetta is over. Max moves on to start a vendetta against Luca.

09 Honda. Not really Max's fault this one but hardly controversial either.

09 Budget. Well, what can we say. Max's finest moment.

[LeonBrooke]

Must take issue with a few things here...

05 Honda. Max wanted to pull Honda in line so did a stitch up job involving a scavenger system used by most of the teams on the grid. Clear case of manipulating the series for his own end. - Honda's car was actually illegal - the dry weight was 7kg too low - this was the issue, not the fuel system.

06 Renault. Dubious call but had to do something to reign in Renault.

07 McLaren. Caught with their hand in the cookie jar fair and square. However, this sort of thing has gone on ad intinitum but because of Max's vendetta against Ron..... and got mind-numbingly boring. stopped following this and couldn't care less in the end. McLaren were clearly in the wrong, should have been quick and easy to clear up. Plus, surely if the team wasn't allowed to score points with car, the drivers shouldn't have been able to either? Sorry, sorry, forgetting it.

08 and 09 McLaren. Various spurious decisions against the Woking team and drivers. I disagree about this - Any team would have been penalised the same for things like the Spa incident, or the lying in Aussie.

But we all agree we're sick of the politics and the controversies? I for once would like to have a month where there's nothing in the media about F1 except for reports from the race weekends.

[Knock-on]

Sorry leon but you're glossing over the bigger picture.

Honda for example were in theory capable of running 7KG underweight. However, there is no evidence they did and the car was unlikely to function very well if they got that low. The whole idea of the scavenger was to allow the cars to get down to a minimum weight without starving the car of fuel.

That is the details of this case are they not. The car was theoretically capable of running underweight as were many of the other cars on the grid. Most teams were running a similar arrangement for the same reasons.

The bigger picture is that a team were singled out for political reasons to suit Max's agenda. Max knew they would be able to catch Honda even although the car had been passed by scruiteneering. The FIA went in after like the Spannish Inquisition.

If it were fair and above board, the FIA would have tested all cars then and there, taking actions against all cars that transgressed. However, that isn't Max's way.

Again, with the whole McLaren thing. They were in the wrong. I have never defended them over that but they were not in the minority. There was a vendetta by Max on Ron and suddenly when Dennis left, Mclaren became just another team in Max's eyes.

The specific instances can be made to prove wither of our POV but the sum of their parts demonstrates a clear and calculated mode of operating.

[LeonBrooke]

Honda for example were in theory capable of running 7KG underweight. However, there is no evidence they did and the car was unlikely to function very well if they got that low. The whole idea of the scavenger was to allow the cars to get down to a minimum weight without starving the car of fuel.

The issue with the BAR wasn't its fuel system - it was the ballast. The rule is that the dry weight has to be 600kg. The BAR was 593kg dry. The team were trying to use fuel as ballast which was against the rules. And yes, the FIA did go about it all wrong - they knew that the car was illegally underweight from the first race but didn't do anything about it until they scored points. They should have been penalised right at the start and avoided the big problems that insued.