Pantano to replace Bourdais at STR with immediate effect?

[Giuseppe F1]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090515094600.shtml

Bourdais to get the axe?
Rumours link Pantano with the Toro Rosso seat
15/05/09 09:46

New rumours in the Italian press have shed fresh doubts on the future in Formula One of the sport's only French driver.

The rumours suggest that Sebastien Bourdais, who has scored one point so far in 2009 compared with his rookie team-mate Sebastien Buemi's three, is on the brink of being ousted by Toro Rosso.

The name linked with the potentially vacant Red Bull-sponsored seat is Giorgio Pantano, who despite winning last year's GP2 championship was left without a ride in the premier series for 2009.
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30-year-old Italian Pantano, who actually contested most of the 2004 season for Jordan, was said to have been preparing to race in the Renault Eurocup series this year, but may now have delayed that debut.

Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

[Knock-on]

One down, just NPjr to go.

[V12]

I guess if this did happen GP2 can keep up its 100% record of firing its champ straight into F1, even if it is a bit delayed this year :)

[BeansBeansBeans]

It'd be interesting, and not unwelcome. I've never warmed to Bourdais, and I wouldn't be averse to Pantano getting another shot.

[leopard]

I'd rather drivers to complete their drive full season, being laid off in the running season is not good. Ferrari drivers, team of STR cars' supplier also scored the same three points as Buemi this far. Perhaps it wasn't Burdais poor quality, performance of Buemi makes him in contrast.

[I am evil Homer]

STR messed SeaBass around so much pre-season to do this now mean he'd have no chance of even getting an IRL drive either and would miss Indy 500.

Plus I don't think Pantano's any better so it's seems entirely pointless move - he's an entirely average driver much like SeaBass. There's plenty of better drivers without an F1 seat,

[acescribe]

With the lack of testing in F1, replacing Bourdais at this stage of the season would be stupid. I sense that Bernie is pushing for Pantano though, to indeed keep up the 100% progression of GP2 champions into F1. To my mind Pantano has been around a long while, had his shot at F1 five years ago and moved back to GP2 where he ended up so experienced against his opposition that really only winning the title would have been good enough.

[EuroTroll]

Pantano is no better, I think. Probably worse. Bad move if they make it.

[pino]

Nothing on today's Ital media so it's just a rumour, I wouldn't mind to see Pantano back though :D

[PolePosition_1]

I defended Bourdais for a seat this year, thinking he was very unlucky last year to not score many more points.

But this year he has been below average, and seemingly gone back compared to last year, so whilst I do believe he has potential, he's just not performing, so if he were to lose his seat I wouldn't be too suprised.

[Knock-on]

I defended Bourdais for a seat this year, thinking he was very unlucky last year to not score many more points.

But this year he has been below average, and seemingly gone back compared to last year, so whilst I do believe he has potential, he's just not performing, so if he were to lose his seat I wouldn't be too suprised.

I've never really rated him. In fact, I wondered why they went for him in the first place. There must have been faster people around with the name Seb?

Last year he was up against a prodigous talent but Buemi doesn't strike me as all that and he's still struggleing with a rookie.

Don't let the door catch your ass on the way out Seb

[I am evil Homer]

What options? Pantano? Old and had his chance De La Rosa? Old and had his chance. Luizzi who shone so very brightly during his career? Sato? They clearly looked at a lot of people before confirming him so late in the day and found no better or viable options.

I don't rate Bourdais but there's hardly a wealth of talent knocking on the door bar DiResta (who's a Merc boy) possibly Senna.

[Knock-on]

What options? Pantano? Old and had his chance De La Rosa? Old and had his chance. Luizzi who shone so very brightly during his career? Sato? They clearly looked at a lot of people before confirming him so late in the day and found no better or viable options.

I don't rate Bourdais but there's hardly a wealth of talent knocking on the door bar DiResta (who's a Merc boy) possibly Senna.

Give Senna his due, he could have easily won last year.

At the end of the season it was a comedy of errors with them both running out of fuel or chashing out. It was a case of:

"After you."

"No, after you."

"No please, I insist."

You may as well chuck Senna in there for a bit of publicity and who knows, he might start performing.

[I am evil Homer]

True....I see no point in repalcing one average driver (Seabass) with another (Pantano). Senna might be worth a punt to see what he can do against Buemi.

[EuroTroll]

I have to say I really don't want to see Bruno in F1... Tarnishing the Senna name. :p :

I'd give Di Grassi a go!

[Knock-on]

I have to say I really don't want to see Bruno in F1... Tarnishing the Senna name. :p :

I'd give Di Grassi a go!

That's a bit harsh.

The lad is not a patch on his Unc but he has shown some fight and didn't do too bad a job.

[EuroTroll]

That's a bit harsh.

The lad is not a patch on his Unc but he has shown some fight and didn't do too bad a job.

Well...

He must be a talented kid, given how he's risen near the top with so few years in racing. And Ayrton is quoted as saying in 1993, "If you think I'm good, just wait until you see my nephew Bruno."

But...

When you take a 10-year brake from racing in your teens, you ain't ever gonna be great, are you, no matter how talented you are... I don't fault the guy for trying, it's just that I don't see the point, really. :)

Would anyone even consider him if his name wasn't Senna, with all the commercial opportunities that brings? I doubt it.

[I am evil Homer]

Well that is a good point but also teams need money and have taken on worse drivers simply for their sponsors!

[big_sw2000]

I defended Bourdais for a seat this year, thinking he was very unlucky last year to not score many more points.

But this year he has been below average, and seemingly gone back compared to last year, so whilst I do believe he has potential, he's just not performing, so if he were to lose his seat I wouldn't be too suprised.
Its a pitty, ive always liked the guy. Followed him over the other side of the pond, in CART. He was bit of a legend over there.
Just goes to show the level in quilty beween CART, now indycar, and F1

[EuroTroll]

Well that is a good point but also teams need money and have taken on worse drivers simply for their sponsors!

Yes, that's true. :erm:

[Knock-on]

Its a pitty, ive always liked the guy. Followed him over the other side of the pond, in CART. He was bit of a legend over there.
Just goes to show the level in quilty beween CART, now indycar, and F1

What I don't understand is why the American continents don't produce better racers <duck>

I would be overjoyed if they produced someone the N and S continents can get behind but they frequently fail to live up to their promise.

That's a reason I hope BS gets a go as it would be great to have an American continent representitive do well.

[555-04Q2]

What I don't understand is why the American continents don't produce better racers <duck>

When a nation can think that round and round we go NASACAR is great racing, there is no other explanation needed. Their drivers probably think an S-bend is a new kind of hotdog.

[555-04Q2]

<duck>

[AndyL]

What I don't understand is why the American continents don't produce better racers <duck>

That's a bit harsh on Rubens and Felipe! ;)

[Knock-on]

That's a bit harsh on Rubens and Felipe! ;)

Felipe and Rubens are good drivers, however, going back in time, we haven't got anything to speak of until JPM and the last WDC was Ayrton.

OK, Brazil has a steller period from 70 - 90 but apart from that, the 2 continents have barely scratched the surface.

Some die hards still wax lyrical about JV but Canada have the same amount of WDC as New Zealand.

The US has won 2 championships but that's the same as Spain, less than Italy or half what Austria and France have each won.

OK, we have the legendary Fangio and what an achievement one peoson has had but really, if you take Argentina and Brazil out of it, there is nothing.

[big_sw2000]

When a nation can think that round and round we go NASACAR is great racing, there is no other explanation needed. Their drivers probably think an S-bend is a new kind of hotdog.
Yes now that CART has died a death, and Indycar is pritty much about going around in circules. I just dont see where the next good single seater American driver will come from.
Ok Danica PAtrick has some experiense of corners, from racing in CART, but really will she be any good in F1.

[Shifter]

Hello, I'm from the US/North America. The reason you no longer see great open-wheel drivers coming from this part of the world is because a driver needs to be talented AND have a wealthy family. Rich families in america produce no talent, mostly idiots, or if they do have talent they never realize it because they drive luxury trucks at 60mph on the superslab.

Those of us who have talent and dedication but aren't rich come up slowly through the sports car ranks.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I think its time for Bourdais to get the chop-he hasnt been good enough. However, I hope he gets a indycar seat as im sure he'll be great there.

[Shifter]

Back on topic. I feel kinda bad for Bourdais but he just hasn't shown a flash that he needs to. He seems stuck in the style of his old Lola and the STR is just the wrong car for him. Not that I want to make excuses though, Alonso for instance would be fast in any of the cars (well mabey not FI...)

[big_sw2000]

I think its time for Bourdais to get the chop-he hasnt been good enough. However, I hope he gets a indycar seat as im sure he'll be great there.
Will he. He came from CART they have corners, will he adapt to regular ovels. Would like to think he would.
My bet would be a regular drive with Peugeot, in the LMS. He did not do to bad in Lemans last year.

[AndyL]

Felipe and Rubens are good drivers, however, going back in time, we haven't got anything to speak of until JPM and the last WDC was Ayrton.

OK, Brazil has a steller period from 70 - 90 but apart from that, the 2 continents have barely scratched the surface.

Some die hards still wax lyrical about JV but Canada have the same amount of WDC as New Zealand.

The US has won 2 championships but that's the same as Spain, less than Italy or half what Austria and France have each won.

OK, we have the legendary Fangio and what an achievement one peoson has had but really, if you take Argentina and Brazil out of it, there is nothing.

I don't know, I think you're stretching your argument excluding certain decades and countries now Knock :) I'm sure if you excluded half of Europe you'd find European performances quite unimpressive too ;)

If you add up Fangio, Fittipaldi, Piquet, Senna, Massa, Barrichello, JPM, and I'm sure a few other race winners who I can't think of right now, I would say South America has produced a great crop of drivers from what is not a particularly rich continent.

With you all the way on North America of course.

[philipbain]

Yes now that CART has died a death, and Indycar is pritty much about going around in circules. I just dont see where the next good single seater American driver will come from.
Ok Danica PAtrick has some experiense of corners, from racing in CART, but really will she be any good in F1.

Danica never raced in CART (or Champ Car), she raced Atlantics and then went straight to Indycar with Bobby Rahal's team. Catherine Legge did Champ Car after driving Atlantics (with a much better record than Danica it must be said, Catherine won races in Atlantic, something Danica didnt do) but was never really in a position to fight an awful lot in Champ Car. She now drives in DTM for Audi.

Also i'd contest that Indycar is "about going around in circles" as since the unification the calendar has become much more balanced between road courses and ovals, 7 of the 17 rounds are now on road / street courses, so road racing expertise is becoming more important all the time. Who knows, maybe Indycar will completely abandon the 1.5 mile NASCAR cookie cutter courses, stick to the big super speedways and 1 mile ovals which always gave Indycar it's flavour back in the 80s and 90s and expand the road course schedule, then once again it will become a viable training ground for F1 drivers.

[Shifter]

Also i'd contest that Indycar is "about going around in circles" as since the unification the calendar has become much more balanced between road courses and ovals, 7 of the 17 rounds are now on road / street courses, so road racing expertise is becoming more important all the time. Who knows, maybe Indycar will completely abandon the 1.5 mile NASCAR cookie cutter courses, stick to the big super speedways and 1 mile ovals which always gave Indycar it's flavour back in the 80s and 90s and expand the road course schedule, then once again it will become a viable training ground for F1 drivers.

Right. But they'll need new cars to go along with the new schedule. I was so disappointed that the Panoz DP-1 never got to develop and mature. Put one of those next to a current Indy Car and try not to shake your head in disappointment.

[Valve Bounce]

Well that is a good point but also teams need money and have taken on worse drivers simply for their sponsors!

That just about sums it up. We'll wait to see if Pantano can do better - he isn't against the best team mate in ability - not as if he was performing against Vettel.

[CNR]

would like to see toro rosso go back to junior team

http://www.redbull-juniorteam.com/

Brendon HARTLEY has a super licence
Jaime ALGUERSUARI has a super licence

[tintop]

Hello, I'm from the US/North America. The reason you no longer see great open-wheel drivers coming from this part of the world is because a driver needs to be talented AND have a wealthy family. Rich families in america produce no talent, mostly idiots, or if they do have talent they never realize it because they drive luxury trucks at 60mph on the superslab.

Those of us who have talent and dedication but aren't rich come up slowly through the sports car ranks.

Answer "Asscar" and fritos and Scott's turf builder etc.

[DBell]

Its a pitty, ive always liked the guy. Followed him over the other side of the pond, in CART. He was bit of a legend over there.
Just goes to show the level in quilty beween CART, now indycar, and F1

He wasn't in CART, he was in Champ Car. CC was a spec series created out of the ashes of CART's bankruptcy. His 4 championships came from driving for the best car in a series that lacked quality teams and drivers. If he had driven in CART in the 90's I don't think he would've won 4 championships. I have my doubts that he would have won any.

[woody2goody]

They won't fire him. Especially with a potentially race-winning car later on in the year. They'd be stupid to give the car to someone who will have to learn how to drive it in the course of a GP weekend.

Having said that, I am a fan of Pantano. I think it would be good for him to get a chance next year with one of the new teams. That way he could maybe be a number one driver.

[Nikki Katz]

I like Bourdais but he doesn't seem to gel with anything past the Toro Rosso at the first few races of last year, all updates just haven't worked for him in comparison to his teammates. He is a very good driver but has possibly spent a bit too long in ChampCar, especially as it was in its latter years.

I'm also a fan of Pantano, but I don't really see him as a long-term solution either. It was always going to be hard for him to get back into F1 given his age and the fact he's been at the same level for 8 years.

[D28]

Felipe and Rubens are good drivers, however, going back in time, we haven't got anything to speak of until JPM and the last WDC was Ayrton.

OK, Brazil has a steller period from 70 - 90 but apart from that, the 2 continents have barely scratched the surface.

Some die hards still wax lyrical about JV but Canada have the same amount of WDC as New Zealand.

The US has won 2 championships but that's the same as Spain, less than Italy or half what Austria and France have each won.

OK, we have the legendary Fangio and what an achievement one peoson has had but really, if you take Argentina and Brazil out of it, there is nothing.

A fairer way to look at this is F1 wins by country/continent. S America has a very impressive 144 victories(Brazil 99, Argentina 38, Columbia 7) from a relatively poor region. N America has 41 wins (US 22, Can 17, Mex 2). Canada's record, all Villeneuve of course, puts it ahead of some European countries Sweden ( 12) and Switzerland (7). The reason more US drivers do not appear in F1 is simply the attraction of NASCAR. Most of the talented drivers are diverted to sedan racing, that's where the sponsorship is and the fan interest. You have to be dedicated and/or rich to work your way up through the Formula Series and Sports Cars.

[jens]

Don't see any point in replacing Bourdais with Pantano... or anyone at the moment. Due to in-season testing ban changing drivers during a season will be even more complicated than before as a new driver basically races without any testing and very possibly will immediately struggle. Recall 2004 and Villeneuve, when he had had almost no testing before his debut at Renault. Failed to score any points in the last three races. And besides everything, while Bourdais may not be a top ace, I don't really consider Pantano to be one either...

[Garry Walker]

Don't see any point in replacing Bourdais with Pantano... or anyone at the moment. Due to in-season testing ban changing drivers during a season will be even more complicated than before as a new driver basically races without any testing and very possibly will immediately struggle. Recall 2004 and Villeneuve, when he had had almost no testing before his debut at Renault. Failed to score any points in the last three races. And besides everything, while Bourdais may not be a top ace, I don't really consider Pantano to be one either...

But Pantano won GP2. So he must be the new Senna in making!!!

[Tom206wrc]

It'd be interesting, and not unwelcome. I've never warmed to Bourdais, and I wouldn't be averse to Pantano getting another shot.



And I wouldn't mind Bourdais to commit 100% to Endurance racing ;)

[Knock-on]

But Pantano won GP2. So he must be the new Senna in making!!!

Didn't he beat Senna in the making :)

[tintop]

Don't see any point in replacing Bourdais with Pantano... or anyone at the moment. Due to in-season testing ban changing drivers during a season will be even more complicated than before as a new driver basically races without any testing and very possibly will immediately struggle.

Good point (s)