Ferrari to quit *Part 2*

[pino]

Sorry Guys but for some reasons the original thread has disappeared, so please let's continue here. Sorry again for the incovenience :(

[EuroTroll]

for some reasons the original thread has disappeared

Bernie & Max!!! :hmph:

[Knock-on]

It's team orders from Brawn I tell yer. It's a conspiracy :D

[pino]

Actually Montezemolo phoned me, and asked me to deleted it as too many fans in here...didn't take him seriously :hmph: :p :

[I am evil Homer]

Oh well they can leave then too. Losing Flavio is no loss whatsoever...

[Dave B]

Italian efficiency at its worst ;)

[CNR]

so is this true
http://www.rac.co.uk/know-how/motoring-news/article.cgi?id=A36121421242197275A0&topic=MOTORSPORT

Ferrari will not be a part of Formula One from next season after the team pulled out over its objection to a spending cap, it has been confirmed.


The famous and popular Italian firm made its intentions known in a statement on the team's website, which read: "We confirm our opposition to the new technical regulations adopted by the FIA and do not intend entering our cars in the 2010 F1 Championship."

[Bezza]

If Ferrari want to leave, let them. They will suffer themselves if they do, much more than F1. OK viewing figures would go down in Italy, but I will still watch - and to be honest it would be good to see a championship without a ridiculous Ferrari bias to it.

The new budget cap brings in smaller teams and privateers and allows them to do well, which is what F1 used to be and still should be about. If the manufacturers don't like it, tough luck really. The economic climate means teams need an incentive to join.

And we could see some drivers from across the pond finally given a chance as F1 has been too closed-shop for too long.

[555-04Q2]

Where would Kimi and Massa go :(

[555-04Q2]

If Ferrari want to leave, let them. They will suffer themselves if they do, much more than F1. OK viewing figures would go down in Italy, but I will still watch - and to be honest it would be good to see a championship without a ridiculous Ferrari bias to it.

The new budget cap brings in smaller teams and privateers and allows them to do well, which is what F1 used to be and still should be about. If the manufacturers don't like it, tough luck really. The economic climate means teams need an incentive to join.

And we could see some drivers from across the pond finally given a chance as F1 has been too closed-shop for too long.

The problem is other big teams are also threatening to pull out. It could get to a stage where Force India's and the safety car will be the only cars on the track.

[ozrevhead]

Toyota and Redbull want to pull out

how can they find 4 new teams?

[N. Jones]

If they players in F1 want to ruin the sport and watch their precious money turn to dust then they only have themselves to blame.

[big_sw2000]

I can see a breakaway series forming.
Or a very good entry list at Le Mans next year.

[Hawkmoon]

If Ferrari want to leave, let them. They will suffer themselves if they do, much more than F1. OK viewing figures would go down in Italy, but I will still watch - and to be honest it would be good to see a championship without a ridiculous Ferrari bias to it.

The new budget cap brings in smaller teams and privateers and allows them to do well, which is what F1 used to be and still should be about. If the manufacturers don't like it, tough luck really. The economic climate means teams need an incentive to join.

And we could see some drivers from across the pond finally given a chance as F1 has been too closed-shop for too long.

If it were only Ferrari you'd be right. But it isn't. Ferrari are the fourth team to state their intention not to enter for 2010. Add a disgruntled Renault and half the grid just disappeared.

If this did happen (and I don't think it will), Formula 1 would probably suffer a potentially terminal blow. There's little chance Bernie could rustle up 5 new teams in 6 months even with the budget cap.

There's nothing wrong with a budget cap, policing issues aside. It's the two-tier system that's unworkable. Max went for a cap that's far too low instead of phasing one in over a few years. He needs to stop dicking with the tech regs too, as all it's doing is pissing off the teams.

This will get sorted and Ferrari and the others will line up in Melbourne next year. What we won't see is a budget cap anything like 40 million pounds or a two-tier set of tech regs.

[I am evil Homer]

I can see a breakaway series forming.
Or a very good entry list at Le Mans next year.

If Ferrari don't want to do F1 i'd love to see them return to sportscars with a prototype after all they have all the skills in house already. The LMS and ALMS are very good already but could become great and its growing popularity would really annoy a certain B Ecclestone.

Although the FIA will probably then screw that series up as well...

[big_sw2000]

If Ferrari don't want to do F1 i'd love to see them return to sportscars with a prototype after all they have all the skills in house already. The LMS and ALMS are very good already but could become great and its growing popularity would really annoy a certain B Ecclestone.

Although the FIA will probably then screw that series up as well...
That why the ACO should stay incharge.
Just think Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, Mercedes, along with Audi, Aston MArtin, Corvette and who ever else i forgott, would be awsome.
Could go back to the standard of the WSPC, in the late 80s early 90s. :D

[F1boat]

I am happy to see that after the bullcrap in the beginning of the season, now the teams are united against the insane tyrant Mosley. I don't care about iSport, @Sport, eSport or whatever. Without Ferrari for me there is no F1. If the other teams leave, it will be a farce. Brawn is a great name, but still a new team. Williams have a lot of history, but this is not enough. I hope that McLaren will stand with the other teams without angering the FIA. This is getting ridiculous, however. Sport for the poor, for the new teams - crap, crap, crap. This is Formula One, not some social institution. If you can't race here, go to some other cheap series.
If Max succeeds, bye bye. I'd follow the series with Ferrari and I am sure that the others will too.

[V12]

Although the FIA will probably then screw that series up as well...

Yep, already happened before - remember Group C? :(

[I am evil Homer]

All to well!

[V12]

I do think the way things are going prototypes are going to be the racing of the future - you have technical variety in terms of both chassis and engines, multiple tyre manufacturers involved, racing on tracks with character, with manufacturers, specialist constructors and privateers running off the shelf equipment competing side by side. Now if only these aspects could be combined with a single-driver, two-hour format... :cool:

[Knock-on]

The problem is other big teams are also threatening to pull out. It could get to a stage where Force India's and the safety car will be the only cars on the track.

Bernd Maylander winning the WDC.

Who would have thought it :D

[Knock-on]

I can see a breakaway series forming.


Breakaway from the commercial rights holder (FOM and Bernie) possibly but the FIA will still be in charge of regulations ffrom a technical perspective. No option than to stick with the FIA if they want to race :(

[CNR]

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=19149


Ferrari has issued a statement saying that it 'does not intend entering its cars in the 2010 F1 Championship'.

[BDunnell]

With the news that Renault have joined the pull-out threat, I find it even more unlikely that the budget cap will happen - unless Renault intend to withdraw anyway for financial reasons and consider this a good excuse.

[I am evil Homer]

Indeed..rumours of their demise have been around for a while and with Nissan losing money as well as Renault they could use this as the perfect excuse.

[Dave B]

With the old thread gone, I'll try to reprise my opinions.

Ferrari won't (be allowed to) leave. Max may be acting tough with his "sorry to see them go" act, but rest assured his old mate Bernie knows the value of having the brand in F1. A compromise will be found, but probably one which suits the FIA more than Ferrari.

This is also the biggest test so far of FOTA's unity, especially as we approach the May 29th deadline for registering 2010 entries. It only takes one team to crumble and submit their entry and the entire bargaining position is massively weakened with all the others surely falling in line.

However, what's to say that half a dozen new teams won't come along and register? What happens if later in the year the protesting teams decide they're happy to participate but there are no longer any vacant spaces on the grid? Would Max seriously tell Red Bull or BMW that there's no room at the inn?

As I see it, Ferrari's main gripes are that the budget cap is too little and too swift. They also seem concerned that there would be a two-tier championship with, as Patrick Head explained recently, little chance of the uncapped teams being able to spend their way out of trouble.

Of the two objections the budget cap is the easiest to overcome. My suggestions from t'other lost thread were that the cap be phased in, say £200M next year, £120M for 2011, £80M for 2012, then finally Max's proposed target of £40M in 2013. Of course the flaw is that would do little to encourage new teams to enter in the short term.

Whatever, it's vital for the health of F1 that there is never ever ever a two-tier system. I've seen it in touring cars and it's clumsy and ugly, raising suspicions that the governing body is artificially "fixing" race outcomes by giving too little or too much dispensation to one or the other spec cars. There are enough conspiracy theories in F1 as it is, thank you.

[555-04Q2]

Bernd Maylander winning the WDC.

Who would have thought it :D

:laugh: :up:

I remember an interview with him about a year ago when he was asked by a reporter, "wouldnt you rather drive the F1 cars than the safety car?". He cooly replied, "no, because I am always in front of the F1 cars!"

[K-Pu]

I think not much will happen...

The FIA will have to reconsider this set of stupid rules, and after some negotiating, everything will be on track (trumpet fanfare, please) again.

Anyway, the two tier system is utter nonsense. Is that a way of getting better racing? Is F1 about that? What are the headhonchos trying to do?

What a pile of negative answers!

[K-Pu]

oh, sorry... I don´t know what happened, the message appeared 4 times :(

[AndyL]

:laugh: :up:

I remember an interview with him about a year ago when he was asked by a reporter, "wouldnt you rather drive the F1 cars than the safety car?". He cooly replied, "no, because I am always in front of the F1 cars!"

:D
He's been first to the chequered flag twice already this season!

[Koz]

Why would teams, if they break away, be forced to still be under the FIA?

Is there some legal requirement for them to be under their control?

[Ghostwalker]

Why would teams, if they break away, be forced to still be under the FIA?

Is there some legal requirement for them to be under their control?
this has been discussed in other threads and i think the conclusion was that almost every circuit is under FIA "certification" (for car racing) meaning FIA approves or disapproved racing on that circuit. Not sure how this work in reality.

[BDunnell]

I do think the way things are going prototypes are going to be the racing of the future - you have technical variety in terms of both chassis and engines, multiple tyre manufacturers involved, racing on tracks with character, with manufacturers, specialist constructors and privateers running off the shelf equipment competing side by side. Now if only these aspects could be combined with a single-driver, two-hour format... :cool:

But it needs a single world championship.

[DexDexter]

I think not much will happen...

The FIA will have to reconsider this set of stupid rules, and after some negotiating, everything will be on track (trumpet fanfare, please) again.



Spot on. I mean seriously, we all know that Ferrari is not going to leave nor are the other teams except for reasons that have nothing to do with the proposed 2010 regulations.

[pits4me]

Sorry Guys but for some reasons the original thread has disappeared, so please let's continue here. Sorry again for the incovenience :(

Cyber woodpeckers like to leaves holes too.

[wmcot]

The problem is other big teams are also threatening to pull out. It could get to a stage where Force India's and the safety car will be the only cars on the track.

Yeah, but Force India would be guaranteed of 2nd and 3rd at every race! ;)

[wmcot]

Of the two objections the budget cap is the easiest to overcome. My suggestions from t'other lost thread were that the cap be phased in, say £200M next year, £120M for 2011, £80M for 2012, then finally Max's proposed target of £40M in 2013. Of course the flaw is that would do little to encourage new teams to enter in the short term.

Whatever, it's vital for the health of F1 that there is never ever ever a two-tier system. I've seen it in touring cars and it's clumsy and ugly, raising suspicions that the governing body is artificially "fixing" race outcomes by giving too little or too much dispensation to one or the other spec cars. There are enough conspiracy theories in F1 as it is, thank you.

That's pretty much what FOTA are saying. They have already put the plan forward, but the Petty Tyrant Max has ignored them.

[555-04Q2]

Yeah, but Force India would be guaranteed of 2nd and 3rd at every race! ;)

:laugh: :up: :laugh:

[Dave B]

I've got an uneasy feeling, and for once not one that can be cured with a visit to the lavatory.

Every so often Ferrari threaten to quit but never do. Bookmark this post so you can prove me wrong later, but having previously said that it will never (be allowed to happen) I am changing my mind and predicting that they will pull out for a season.

In the same way that Bernie dropped Spa for a year when nobody believed him, and in the same way he's almost certain to drop the British GP for a year, I am becoming more and more convinced that Ferrari will sit 2010 out on the sidelines before returning in '11 - or even later in the 2010 season - with all their demands satisfied and an even bigger share of the money.

Ferrari won't be on the grid in Melbourne 2010. Fact :p

[I am evil Homer]

What's to say Ferrari aren't going to suggest more LMS races in Bahrain or Dubai if they agreed to join that series - which IMO goes from strength to strength.

[AndyRAC]

While I'd like to see Ferrari join LMS/ALMS - I don't like the idea of those series being used as pawns in a struggle against the FiA.

[I am evil Homer]

I don't think it would be....merely a series where Ferrari can use it's expertise to build a prototype and use its own engine.

[AndyL]

I've got an uneasy feeling, and for once not one that can be cured with a visit to the lavatory.

Every so often Ferrari threaten to quit but never do. Bookmark this post so you can prove me wrong later, but having previously said that it will never (be allowed to happen) I am changing my mind and predicting that they will pull out for a season.

In the same way that Bernie dropped Spa for a year when nobody believed him, and in the same way he's almost certain to drop the British GP for a year, I am becoming more and more convinced that Ferrari will sit 2010 out on the sidelines before returning in '11 - or even later in the 2010 season - with all their demands satisfied and an even bigger share of the money.

Ferrari won't be on the grid in Melbourne 2010. Fact :p

What about the other teams who've said they'd pull out, are they going to stand firm with Ferrari or cave in?

[big_sw2000]

I don't think it would be....merely a series where Ferrari can use it's expertise to build a prototype and use its own engine.
Problem with LMS, is do Ferrari make a deisel engine

[Bezza]

If it were only Ferrari you'd be right. But it isn't. Ferrari are the fourth team to state their intention not to enter for 2010. Add a disgruntled Renault and half the grid just disappeared.

If this did happen (and I don't think it will), Formula 1 would probably suffer a potentially terminal blow. There's little chance Bernie could rustle up 5 new teams in 6 months even with the budget cap.

There's nothing wrong with a budget cap, policing issues aside. It's the two-tier system that's unworkable. Max went for a cap that's far too low instead of phasing one in over a few years. He needs to stop dicking with the tech regs too, as all it's doing is pissing off the teams.

This will get sorted and Ferrari and the others will line up in Melbourne next year. What we won't see is a budget cap anything like 40 million pounds or a two-tier set of tech regs.

Well put. I agree really, your view makes more sense than mine - although Renault only stated their intentions after I posted! :)

They will work something out, because the crux of the matter is that Ferrari do not want to leave F1, and neither do Renault. So, its like a giant poker match - who will fold first. At this point, probably the FIA, but the budget cap will still arrive - like you say, probably altered at a much higher cap.

So, its like a giant poker match - who will fold first. At this point, probably the FIA, but the budget cap will still arrive - like you say, probably altered at a much higher cap.

Which is exactly what Max and the FIA want, I suspect, and is the only way to deal with F1 teams.

Trying to be nice with the likes of Luca & Flavio just won't get anything done. These men, for all their flashness and/or smoothness, are hard-nosed buzzards who would not budge on a position unless they are confronted by similar hard-nosed people.

[wmcot]

These men, for all their flashness and/or smoothness, are hard-nosed buzzards who would not budge on a position unless they are confronted by similar hard-nosed people.

You could be talking about either side.

[Valve Bounce]

This all revolves around the Budget Cap and the resulting two tier F1 regulations system. This was never going to work. If those on the Budget Cap are not competitive enough, they will simply bring up the rear of the field and form a useless part of the competition.
If, on the other hand, they come out better off and beat the teams which have spent more money, then what is the point of the ones spending more money remaining in F1 and race those who beat them by spending less? It just doesn't have any logic.

[gloomyDAY]

I guess this is serious. Ferrari are taking legal action against the FIA in a French court. I thought Ferrari were bluffing! Well time to move on over to sportscars. ALMS at Laguna Seca with 4 new manufacturers & Red Bull? *drool*

[TMorel]

surely a court injunction DOES imply they are bluffing, otherwise why not just quit.

[Dave B]

Joe Saward (the writer of Grandprix.com) has an excellent analysis on his blog:
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/now-things-are-getting-out-of-control/

[Koz]

Joe Saward (the writer of Grandprix.com) has an excellent analysis on his blog:
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/now-things-are-getting-out-of-control/

:)

Mister Max is losing it. Made my day.

[Triumph]

It does appear that Ferrari's 'threat' was just a lot of hot air.

I'm wondering if they are using the same person for race and business strategies at the moment.

[WSRfan82]

regarding ferrari taking the FIA to court.....correct me wrong but FIA run the F1 championship right...so cant the FIA do what they please regarding the rules and the budgett cap.

i think the teams that are moan should quit moaning and just leave f1 can do without ferrari or renault makes room for othe teams if you ask me...i was a ferrai fan but ive no respect for them any more

[Somebody]

regarding ferrari taking the FIA to court.....correct me wrong but FIA run the F1 championship right...so cant the FIA do what they please regarding the rules and the budgett cap.

I take it you didn't read the link DB posted?


The details of this agreement have never been made public but it seems that it included not only a substantial payment each year to Ferrari, but also a veto on the technical regulations in the future. According to our sources, the document even stated that if the new agreement was not validated by all the other teams, the old Concorde Agreement would prevail.

If that was the case, therefore, Max Mosley does not have the right to make any rules and regulations without the Formula 1 Commission being involved. This body has not met for several years.

[truefan72]

Joe Saward (the writer of Grandprix.com) has an excellent analysis on his blog:
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/now-things-are-getting-out-of-control/

upon reading that article I have mixed emotions towards Ferrari and the FIA and none for Mad Max.

I do wish the teams would stand up and actually quit F1 for a year if only to oust this current administration. so good for them in taking the necessary steps to challenge Max and his band of fools over there.

NOW, These are the same fools who saw fit to give Ferrari a sweetheart deal back in 2005, which included A SAY IN THE TECHNICAL regs!!! \Along with what amounts to a yearly fee for the "privilege" of Ferrari driving in F1.
Conspiracy theorists might look at this and deduct a whole gambit of reasons why the prancing horse have/had been so dominant in years gone by and why judgments seemed to favor them consistently. It comes as no surprise that when you allow the governing body to form an allegiance with one team in a secret agreement, then an obvious bias is the natural byproduct.

This simply renews my calls to to breakaway completely from this corrupted and dysfunctional governing body and force a new one with transparent rules, transparent Concorde agreements and proper revenue sharing.

It seems to me that the chickens have come home to roost.

[Ghostwalker]

more info here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6296972.ece

[CNR]

Q: did max or the fia have a secret contract with ferrari

The legal action by Ferrari, with a hearing in Paris due on Tuesday, reflects the belief at Maranello that the FIA has broken an exclusive agreement with the team over consultation on new rules in its radical proposals for next year.

[wmcot]

Q: did max or the fia have a secret contract with ferrari

If it means Max's downfall, then I don't care!

[K-Pu]

Joe Saward (the writer of Grandprix.com) has an excellent analysis on his blog:
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/now-things-are-getting-out-of-control/

Now they are reaping their rewards, eh? The FIA, I mean. They sign an agreement with Ferrari, nobody knows and now call me paranoid, but this could explain why people think things like FIARRARI and Ferrari International Assistance... Maybe they are right after all...

Apart from that, I have always thought that bringing the sport into disrepute is bad enough, but this is no more than another example of how the sport is being brought into disrepute by the governing body itself. And they dare to punish McLaren!

I´m no fan of McLaren nor Ferrari. Indeed, they´re the teams I dislike most, but the FIA is reaching new horizons, and with all the effort they´re putting into this maybe they´ll get what they want: Destroy F1 fanbase.

Anyway, it´s the same again and again: A power struggle. I want to rule, you want to rule, they want to rule. Then to demonstrate that I rule, I do something stupid enough to make a lot of noise, and inmediately there you come, making even more noise. And after all they´ll maybe come too, making it all even more puzzling.

Going back to this secret agreement: I don´t know if I´m shocked or not. It´s just the kind of thing the FIA would do, and I can not think of a sibgle team which would not accept such a privilege, because, as we all know, integrity is the least important thing in F1.

[maximilian]

I also feel there is something very intrinsically FISHY about this secret agreement, in the light of things that transpired over the last seasons.

Ferrari don't want a 2-tier championship? Yeah sure... they have had one all this time! :eek:

[Tazio]

More tough words from Bernie
Ecclestone said he was “happy” with the state of play in his business and dismissed talk of a crisis.

He suggested that Ferrari’s legal action was too late. “It’s good, it keeps it in the bloody newspaper,” he said. “They should have done it before — idiots. They should have done it at the beginning.” Was he worried about its implications? “Nothing frightens me,” he said.


Hold on a second. I'm having one of my episodes that only happen when the stars align properly! :eek:
I have become clairvoyant for an instant.
Ferrari will find some more speed by Turkey, and the conspiracy theorists will go berserk :p :

[mstillhere]

Talking about diktorship, arrogance and fear:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75420

[Tazio]

"I think that we will probably get anywhere between three and six teams by the deadline, depending," said Mosley, when asked by AUTOSPORT about what he thought would happen.
"After that they become a late entry and if there is a space they can take it, and if there isn't space they cannot."

Talking about diktorship, arrogance and fear:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75420

More like bad British Comedy :arrows:

[mstillhere]

This is about one of the team that was thinking about taking advantage at the sale event taking place at FIA. Richardson is having second thoughts and justifibily so.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090518150547.shtml

1. With all the bad publicity F1 has been suffering lately, I bet many perspective investors are having second thoughts about entering F1 (I know Lola did but I wonder how happy are they now) Fans are not that happy right now with all that's going on in F1. Few fans=no advertisers.

2. I still don't see the main issue directly and clearly dealt with, though: HOW IS MOSLEY GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT NO TEAM WOULD SPEND MORE THAN 40 MIL IN DETAIL?

I lknow there is some info some where but for some reason the main stream media is just not focusing on it. I wonder why. The plausible reason could be that whatever Mosley said is definetly NOT bullet proof.

I am sure even the many owners of the numerous new teams planning to join F1 don't even have 40 mils, so no risk of cheating there. But what if some do? Would they calmly walking to Mosley's office and give him all their bank accounts with their passwords and PINs? What about the bigger teams?

THE POLICING ISSUE NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED IN DETAIL BIG TIME.

[wmcot]

To quote Max:

"Mosley has also made it clear that if the rebel teams opt to set up a breakaway series, then the FIA would be happy to sanction it.

"Absolutely. We would have to do that, and we would do that. And if they did a breakaway, they could write their own rules and we would check them over for safety. And that would be it."

Then why the hell aren't you doing that NOW, MAX? That is what you are supposed to do, not police everyone's bank account and create random rules to suit your whims! You've just given the definition of YOUR job, Max. Why don't you TRY TO DO YOUR JOB????

[SGWilko]

More like bad British Comedy :arrows:

Ding Dong - Carry On!!!!! :laugh:

[jens]

A bit difficult to imagine Ferrari leaving F1, unless they have a great alternative, which could only be a strong breakaway series together with other teams. There were suggestions about the possibility of the buyout of A1GP recently...

We remember how Max, Bernie and Ferrari reached an agreement back in 2005 and I have a slight fear it might happen again. But anyway, if Ferrari doesn't find a good alternative, they ought to continue in a budget-capped F1, if it stays as it is, even if they don't like it. With Toyota and Renault it's a different case, I think. They may well be genuinely gone with budget caps.

Who will back off before - FIA or FOTA? Will be interesting... But the shame is that with every passing day of uncertainty the possibility of seeing new teams in 2010 is decreasing. :(

[MJW]

Interesting aside on autosport.com Tom Kristiansen reckons that sports car racing LMS is about to enter a golden age, with many manufacturers showing an interest, even Luca Di Montezemelo acting as starter for the 2009 race, also noted that Prodrive / DR are not outwardly showing too much interest in F1 and still interested in GT racing. Maybe thats because of the fact that Prodrive were blocked last time out and dont want to show too much intrest this time though.

[wmcot]

But anyway, if Ferrari doesn't find a good alternative, they ought to continue in a budget-capped F1, if it stays as it is, even if they don't like it.(

A budget capped Ferrari F1 team would turn the prancing horse into a gelding! Ferrari get what F1 is about - prestige, premier racing, the fastest drivers in the most advanced cars. They might as well move to GP2 or F3 as stay in F1 with Max controlling the purse strings.

[jas123f1]

more info here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6296972.ece

Ferrari have initiated legal action in the French courts to try to stop rule changes, including a budget cap... The courts verdict is comming on wedn. 21 May.. :talk:

[555-04Q2]

There were suggestions about the possibility of the buyout of A1GP recently

Correct. The Shaik who started it is looking for interested buyers. I dont think A1GP took off the way he hoped it would.

[scaliwag]

If Ferrari and Renault pull out so be it, I have always maintained motor manufacturers should never have been allowed in, all the teams should be privateers if Red Bull decide to leave that will be disappointing, however with a budget cap many more teams will emerge, hopefully two or three from the USA, and perhaps one from Aussie.

Regards scaliwag.

[SGWilko]

Why would any new American Team want to compete in a series that has, single handedly, cut off the Noth American market by taking the race away from Indy and Montreal due to not being able to bleed enough money out of the promoter.

Another Oxymoron me thinks - this one's a Berniemoron though.....

[pino]

French Court has rejected Ferrari's appeal, italian media has just confirmed.

[cosmicpanda]

ouch.

[Tazio]

French Court has rejected Ferrari's appeal, italian media has just confirmed.
$%!!?$ !?#$@!?%!?! Continental-Mafia! :p :

[Garry Walker]

Good luck FIA, good luck Bernie.

Lets see how many people will be at the race at Monza if Ferrari are not part of f1 :rotflmao:
Lets see how many people will bother watching races, with such magnificent teams as Lola and Epsilon Euskadi (:rotflmao :) fighting for wins

[Dave B]

Well, Ferrari certainly believe F1 is doomed without them, suggesting it should be renamed "GP3".

There may be a small element of truth in that, but the statement on their official website is nothing short of arrogant. Bringing the sport into disrepute springs to mind...


They couldn't almost believe their eyes, the men at women working at Ferrari, when they read the papers this morning and found the names of the teams, declaring that they have the intention to race in Formula 1 in the next year. Looking at the list, which leaked yesterday from Paris, you can't find a very famous name, one of those one has to spend 400 Euros per person for a place on the grandstand at a GP (plus the expenses for the journey and the stay..). Wirth Research, Lola, USF1, Epsilon Euskadi, RML, Formtech, Campos, iSport: these are the names of the teams, which should compete in the two-tier Formula 1 wanted by Mosley. Can a World Championship with teams like them - with due respect - can have the same value as today's Formula 1, where Ferrari, the big car manufacturers and teams, who created the history of this sport, compete? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it Formula GP3?

http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/090520_F1_Formula_1.aspx
http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/ferrari-ridicule-new-f1-teams/

[Garry Walker]

Well, Ferrari certainly believe F1 is doomed without them, suggesting it should be renamed "GP3".

There may be a small element of truth in that, but the statement on their official website is nothing short of arrogant. Bringing the sport into disrepute springs to mind...



http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/090520_F1_Formula_1.aspx
http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/ferrari-ridicule-new-f1-teams/

Ferrari also mentioned the other big manufacturers. They are right on the money, and I have to say, I gained even more respect for Ferrari for that statement.

[Dave B]

Ferrari also mentioned the other big manufacturers.
In so much as they presumed to speak for all of them. I'd imagine the boards of those manufacturers distancing themselves from such a disrepectful statement which belittles and ridicules their would-be competitors.

Maybe being roundly whooped by a privateer team this year is hurting Ferrari's pride more than they've let on, but lashing out like that isn't the way to resolve it.

[SGWilko]

Maybe being roundly whooped by a privateer team this year is hurting.

I wonder how much it is hurting McLaren right now. Did not Ron Dennis and Norbert supply much assistance to Ross in shoehorning the Merc engine in the car?

Very noble, and it shows that certainly McLaren are not bigger than the sport.

But, are Ferrari bigger than the sport. You'd have to stay that they are a big part of it.

As an aside, I've just read an article on the BBC F1 site about Ferrari losing the case, and there is a video clip of about 10 mins where mosely discusses the meeting he, the teams and the dwarf had. At the end, he alludes to one team principle who tried to get all the others to walk out but failed. It's interesting as to who that guy was.......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8058903.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8052848.stm

[Easy Drifter]

If Ferrari and the other manufacture teams walk so do I.
I have followed F1 since 52 but without most of the current major teams it will be a joke, especially if Mercedes and BMW follow suit.

[Tazio]

I wonder how much it is hurting McLaren right now. Did not Ron Dennis and Norbert supply much assistance to Ross in shoehorning the Merc engine in the car?

Very noble, and it shows that certainly McLaren are not bigger than the sport.

But, are Ferrari bigger than the sport. You'd have to stay that they are a big part of it.

As an aside, I've just read an article on the BBC F1 site about Ferrari losing the case, and there is a video clip of about 10 mins where mosely discusses the meeting he, the teams and the dwarf had. At the end, he alludes to one team principle who tried to get all the others to walk out but failed. It's interesting as to who that guy was.......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8058903.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8052848.stm

I must say, Max is very well spoken! :mark: :beer: :p :

[jens]

Hm, I personally hope that this breakaway series will become a reality. It's about time F1 teams/FOTA screw Max/Bernie, who so far have constantly achieved their goals. It's time to end it!

In rallying there is rising competition between two series (WRC/IRC) and in a way it would be good for open-wheel racing too, because that dominant hegemony of F1 over other series have made MM/BE too bold and 'unstoppable'. It's time they faced a serious rivalry. And besides that, in a way it would be fun to see all those small teams competing in a budget-capped F1 series. :D In current situation - something has to change. The biggest disappointment would be if the same ten teams would line up next year on the grid, nothing has changed and we witness no new teams either. :dozey: With so much current fuss the expectations and wish to see something new has risen high.

[Tazio]

But then again judging by the amount of spelling mistakes and gramatical errors in the statement, it may have been written by Luca's 3 year old grandson who wouldn't remember 'Lola' anyway :D Formula 1 o Formula GP3?

Maranello, 20 maggio - Facevano fatica a credere ai loro occhi gli uomini e le donne della Ferrari stamattina quando hanno letto sui giornali i nomi delle squadre che hanno manifestato la loro intenzione di correre il prossimo anno in Formula 1. A scorrere l'elenco, trapelato ieri da Parigi, si fa fatica a trovare un nome degno di nota, uno di quelli per cui andare a spendere 400 Euro a testa per un biglietto in tribuna per un Gran Premio (più spese di viaggio e soggiorno..). Wirth Research, Lola, USF1, Epsilon Euskadi, RML, Formtech, Campos, iSport: queste sono le squadre che l'anno prossimo dovrebbero competere nella Formula 1 a due velocità voluta da Mosley. Ma un campionato del mondo con queste squadre, con tutto il rispetto per loro, può avere lo stesso valore della Formula 1 di oggi, dove si affrontano la Ferrari, i grandi costruttori automobilistici e team che hanno fatto la storia di questo sport? Non sarebbe più adeguato chiamarla Formula GP3?
http://www.ferrari.com/Italian/News/Pages/090520_F1_Formula_1.aspx
The grammar appears to be correct to me! :mark:
Let's ask Pino ;)

[Tazio]

Now try reading the English version. I can only assume it has been translated directly from Italian and not converted in order for it to make sense. I get the jist of it but made me chuckle all the same...I read it! :p : It's obviously a computer translation (and not a very good one)!
I can only think of two reasons they did this!
1: Ferrari really is trying to cut it's budget! :p :
2: They don't give a **** about their English speaking constituency :mad: :mark:

[F1boat]

Fantastic article! With Max's leadership, F1 will end like Indy Car, the old DTM and the FIA Sportscar Championship...

[donKey jote]

$%!!?$ !?#$@!?%!?! Continental-Mafia! :p :

yep, tell Schaeffler about it :laugh:

oh, wrong subject :dozey:

[Tazio]

yep, tell Schaeffler about it :laugh:

oh, wrong subject :dozey: No! Spot on mate!
Given an offer they couldn't refuse! :p :

[Oli_M]

Someone's not being very honest here........

Bawara Addax (ie Campos) are apparently NOT intending on entering next year. So cross them off the list that will 'replace' Ferrari.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75458

[Tazio]

Someone's not being very honest here........

Bawara Addax (ie Campos) are apparently NOT intending on entering next year. So cross them off the list that will 'replace' Ferrari.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75458
Well things do change!
Alejandro may have interpretted the horses cabeza in his bed as a subtle message. :confused: :mark:

[CNR]

Formula 1 o Formula GP3?

Maranello, 20 maggio - Facevano fatica a credere ai loro occhi gli uomini e le donne della Ferrari stamattina quando hanno letto sui giornali i nomi delle squadre che hanno manifestato la loro intenzione di correre il prossimo anno in Formula 1. A scorrere l'elenco, trapelato ieri da Parigi, si fa fatica a trovare un nome degno di nota, uno di quelli per cui andare a spendere 400 Euro a testa per un biglietto in tribuna per un Gran Premio (più spese di viaggio e soggiorno..). Wirth Research, Lola, USF1, Epsilon Euskadi, RML, Formtech, Campos, iSport: queste sono le squadre che l'anno prossimo dovrebbero competere nella Formula 1 a due velocità voluta da Mosley. Ma un campionato del mondo con queste squadre, con tutto il rispetto per loro, può avere lo stesso valore della Formula 1 di oggi, dove si affrontano la Ferrari, i grandi costruttori automobilistici e team che hanno fatto la storia di questo sport? Non sarebbe più adeguato chiamarla Formula GP3?
http://www.ferrari.com/Italian/News/Pages/090520_F1_Formula_1.aspx
The grammar appears to be correct to me! :mark:
Let's ask Pino ;)
In a statement on their website, Ferrari said that if these teams were to participate, Formula One should be appropriately called Formula GP3.
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1257624


"Looking at the list, which leaked from Paris (where FIA headquarters are located), you can't find a very famous name; one of those, one has to spend 400 euros per person for a place on the grandstand at a Grand Prix (plus the expenses for the journey and the stay),"the statement says.
It further adds that teams like Wirth Research, Lola, USF1, Epsilon Euskadi, RML, Formtech, Campos, iSport should be competing in the two-tier Formula 1 wanted by (Max) Mosley.
The statement ends with this question: "Can a World Championship with teams like them -- with due respect -- have the same value as today's Formula 1, where Ferrari, the big car manufacturers and teams, who created the history of this sport, compete?"

[woody2goody]

I still think it's bad sportsmanship, and all it does is demonstrate how certain big teams think they are above the sport.

[wmcot]

I would think that it would be wise for any of the proposed teams who might be considering entries for 2010 to look closely at Max and Bernie and think about what you are getting into. Who knows which rules Max will change on you which will end up costing you a fortune and forcing you out of "F1" (quotes designate Max's new "F1" in a manner similar to Hitler's new Germany)

[wmcot]

I still think it's bad sportsmanship, and all it does is demonstrate how certain big teams think they are above the sport.

Seems more like "sportsmanship vs. dictatorship" to me.

[ioan]

I still think it's bad sportsmanship, and all it does is demonstrate how certain big teams think they are above the sport.

And they are right to think that way.

[F1boat]

I think that Ferrari want the sport to be good enough for them. Cheap series with limited budgets is not what F1 should be.

[ioan]

I think that Ferrari want the sport to be good enough for them. Cheap series with limited budgets is not what F1 should be.

Yep, why would a luxury sport cars manufacturer want to be in a cheap series?!

We must consider ourselves lucky that Trabant and Wartburg aren't in the automotive business anymore, they might have wanted to sign up to the new "F1" series, and they would have brought along the innovative and ultra cost effective pressed cardboard chassis and bodywork!

[F1boat]

The worst part is that FIA is doing this to all series. It butchered to WRC and next to DTM or V8 cars WTCC is a joke IMO. But to mess F1 will be worse, of course.

[555-04Q2]

I still think it's bad sportsmanship, and all it does is demonstrate how certain big teams think they are above the sport.

Reality is that sportsmanship went out the window when professionalism and big money started entering into sport. Its a business now, for the drivers/athletes to the mechanics and team owners/sponsors.

Gone are the days of doctors and lawyers pitching up at a race track/sports field on a Saturday/Sunday for a bit of fun.

[F1boat]

I think Ferrari are totally right to make this stance on the budget cap and can understand fully as to why they are threatening to pull out next season. The statement that was released however was nothing short of amateur IMO. I think it is also quite embarrassing for them as it is basically rubbishing organisations which for some have more money behind them than Ferrari themselves. Regardless of whether they are the oldest most successfull team in the sports history, this kind of snobbish attitude towards apparently lower teams is unacceptable. Brawn are a fine example as to why you shouldn't laugh until you have seen the on-track results... Alot of sniggers were heard around the paddock on the day when Brawn GP was announced yet they have wiped the floor with the others so far... If I was Luca, the guy who wrote this release would be half way to Maranello's dole office right now ;)

Brawn GP is nothing like these teams. Brackley is one of the oldest organizations ever, you can track them to Tyrrel... and Ross is the Boss :)

[wedge]

Good luck FIA, good luck Bernie.

Lets see how many people will be at the race at Monza if Ferrari are not part of f1 :rotflmao:
Lets see how many people will bother watching races, with such magnificent teams as Lola and Epsilon Euskadi (:rotflmao :) fighting for wins

Even in 2002 in the Ferrari dominant era Monza then wasn't a sell out

[ioan]

Even in 2002 in the Ferrari dominant era Monza then wasn't a sell out

Due to Bernie charging a fortune.

[Roamy]

I still think it's bad sportsmanship, and all it does is demonstrate how certain big teams think they are above the sport.

Ferrari has invested a lot into the sport and to be relegated to a sh!tbox team is not of interest to them and rightly so. We have indy car series and gp2 for those who can not afford the big game.

The fact is that I cannot understand how in god's creation Mosely keeps running the FIA. And what is even more incredible is the amount of money he makes. This guy is a demonstrated baffoon but a modern miracle that he still has a job. Shame on the team owners. Hooray for the ones who are now standing up but they must do more and oust this queer loser!!

[jens]

Brawn GP is nothing like these teams. Brackley is one of the oldest organizations ever, you can track them to Tyrrel... and Ross is the Boss :)

BAR has very little to do with Tyrrell, they only bought their F1 licence. That factory in Brackley for BAR was built in 1998.

[ioan]

BAR has very little to do with Tyrrell, they only bought their F1 licence. That factory in Brackley for BAR was built in 1998.

Spot on.

[F1boat]

BAR has very little to do with Tyrrell, they only bought their F1 licence. That factory in Brackley for BAR was built in 1998.

Thanks, but still 1998 is more than 10 years. And Ross is still the Boss ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

That factory in Brackley for BAR was built in 1998.
And it couldn't be further from the wood yard Tyrrell operated from. Different worlds :s mokin:

[leopard]

Above all, I think besides any controversy and accusation that series very much favors them this far, their contribution is deemed positive and helpful. F1 still needs prominent figures with huge experience and stats like Ferrari ...

[wmcot]

I think that Ferrari want the sport to be good enough for them. Cheap series with limited budgets is not what F1 should be.

We already have plenty of cheap, low budget, amateurish series.

[Bagwan]

I read a story yesterday(I will try to dog it up) , that postulated that Ferrari , perhaps had not really lost the appeal .

It seems that in 2001(I think) the European union signed the Nice agreement .
It states that , to be recognized by the Union , sporting organisations must be seen to be acting in a fair and unbiassed way .
The agreement between the FIA and Ferrari contained a veto on new rules and bonusses not available to the others .

Having these statements read in court , affixes them in the records , and publicly shows Ferrari favoured .

Can it be that the European union can now refuse to sanction the FIA ?

[Bagwan]

Here's the article to which I was referring :

It's Joe Saward's grand prix blog .

"Did the FIA really win the court case?
May 21, 2009 by joesaward

The French courts threw out Ferrari’s request for an injunction to stop the FIA making rules as it pleases in 2010. Some will see this as a defeat for the Italian team, and suggest that the fight is over and that the Formula Teams’ Association (FOTA) will now fold up and disappear. I am sure that is not the case at all. The French courts have traditionally avoided getting involved in FIA disputes. It is easier that way. They let the sport sort itself out.

From where I am sitting, I see Ferrari having lost a battle, but in return it has gained an important new weapon and that leaves the FIA swimming in very dangerous waters – and it is all written down in court papers.

Why?

Because in the middle of 2000 the European heads of government gathered for a Council of Europe in Nice, just down the road from where I currently sit in Monte Carlo. One of their aims of that meeting was to to define how to apply European Union law to the governance of sport. They ended up drafting a document which set out the general principles by which EU institutions should deal with sport, stressing its support for the independence of sports organisations and their right to organise themselves through the appropriate structures. They also recognised the role of the federations in ensuring stability in sport and their responsibility to develop and nurture the sport at grass roots level. This agreement became known as The Nice Declaration and is often used by sporting federations to justify their own existence.

Hidden away in the boring small print, there were some qualifications added to the acceptance that federations should have power, notably the one that says that this power is only recognised “with due regard for national and Community legislation and on the basis of a democratic and transparent method of operation”.

When I began to think about this, I reached the conclusion that Ferrari may not care very much if they won or lost in Paris. What they achieved was to to put on the record the fact that they have enjoyed a special relationship with the FIA. Many suspected it, no-one knew for sure. We all knew that Ferrari got extra money, but who knew of the veto? You can hear the lawyers already beginning to argue that the Ferrari veto was neither democratic, nor transparent. You can hear them questioning whether the FIA should continue to be recognised by the EU…

And at this point one must screech to a halt and put things into some kind of perspective. Forget the budget cap and all the other smoke that is swirling around. How can an independent governing body of a sport, justify a special relationship with one team that allows that organisation to not only have a pile more money than its rivals, and also grants it the right to veto rule changes? I can imagine that Max Mosley, being the clever soul and (spectacular) survivor that he is, will have 412 reasons why it is all completely right and why anyone who asks the question is obviously not intellectually capable of anything other than sewing mail bags, but for me it is like the International Olympic Committee allowing Russia to stop the 100m sprint if their team does not happen to have any good sprinters at that particular moment.

When all is said and done, this is all legal jibber-jabber. A sport gets what it deserves in terms of governance. If people within the sport feel that something is wrong and feel that normal channels do not do what they are supposed to do, then either the management is fine but misunderstood, or the sport is rotten to the core and cannot fix itself. In such a case then an outside force might be needed to solve the problem, or at least address the questions to see if there is a real need to intervene. The fact that the question has to be asked is worrying in itself.

The role of the FIA membership is not to simply follow the president wherever he goes. The responsibility of the FIA delegates is to make sure that the sport is run in a democratic and transparent fashion. If the FIA membership fails in that task and an external force comes in and finds the sport to be wanting, then the delegates deserve no mercy. The “I was only following orders” defence is not considered acceptable.

A good example of this is what happened to Britain’s Metropolitan Police in the late 1970s. For some years there had been questions about whether or not the policing of London was being done in a fair and correct manner, with allegations that there was collusion going on between gangs of robbers and high-ranking police officers. In the end an investigation called Operation Countryman was begun, headed by a country policeman. It took six years and resulted in the removal of 400 officers. There were recommendations that 300 of these should be prosecuted, but the politicians were not keen on that. The bad apples had been thrown out and the public regained confidence in the policing methods.

What Ferrari has done with the legal action in Paris is to raise the question of governance beyond the normal tittle-tattle of the sport."

[ioan]

Latest news:



"As always there's been a very good meeting, with a very good atmosphere and we are all together," said di Montezemolo.

"We are all together and we will be in a position to go to the president of the FIA saying very constructively and in a very clear way the position of FOTA."

When asked if he was positive that an agreement could be reached to prevent a walkout by leading teams, di Montezemolo said: "We will see. It is important that our view of the future is absolutely shared."

He added: "We have no desire to exclude Ferrari or any other team from Formula 1. Indeed quite the opposite. Our concern is to ensure the economic sustainability of F1 as well as making conditions right for new teams to enter."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75514

Looks like Max and Bernie are in the same boat! Hopefully they sink together.

[Knock-on]

Baggy

I hope people read and re-read your post.

The FIA sailed very close to the wind with the EU in granting the commercial rights to Bernie and nearly got dumped on from a great height. I am sure that a few eyebrows of a sleeping dragon or two are being raised as I type.

It may not matter if the FIA and FOTA come to agreement or not. The touchpaper has been lit and sooner, or later, there is going to be a huge explosion. I guarentee it.

[K-Pu]

I don´t know if it will happen what should happen...

I´ll explain myself. In these cases, usually nothing happens. Something can be blatantly wrong, something can be so evidently rotten that it glows in the dark, something can be REALLY ed up, but... nothing happens.

There´s too much power around there, people who deal with big money, and that´s what decides the final outcome: Power. And in this case we are facing a power struggle between F1 teams and the FIA, where the FIA wants to have even more control over the sport (or wants to be the sport itself) and the teams are between a rightful claim of limiting FIA´s power and some childish whining because they could see how some newcomers could perform "not that bad". And there´s also that thing about watering down the field, which is absolutely true. And maybe there is something more hidden in the fog, waiting for the right moment to pop out (like that FIA-Ferrari secret agreement), thus making things even more unstable.

An explosive mix, indeed...

But not explosive enough because I doubt the explosion will catch Max, Bernie and the wretched hellspawn that put them where they are now and ispire their actions. If everything goes wrong, F1 will suffer, fans will suffer but they´ll still have the power. Maybe the big sponsors will go out, maybe they´ll lose fans, but they´d still have the POWER, and it seems it´s what they want. In some other post I said they´d also lose, and that´s what they could lose, but in the end they would remain where they are.

Rotten apples in the fruit bowl. They spread "evil" everywhere, they destroy all the fruit in the fruitbowl... but they´re still there.

[K-Pu]

And I almost forget it...
Great article, Bagwan. It is another twist in this story, and I´d hope things would be different...

[Bagwan]

It's a master stroke , if it was intended .

I was having a bit of a hard time with the idea that Ferrari would give this up for the appeal without a "plan B" .
This was something they were loath to admit , and now they have , freely .

There's a bigger fish to catch .
It's not just about the rules for next year .

It's about the dictator .

[Hondo]

Thanks bags and K-pu. On another, not fair but possible hand, The EU already up to it's rump with genuine "affects real peope" economic disasters going on within it's membership, may view this thing as a whole bunch of rich guys all bent on tossing their toys from the pram and thump all of them really swift and hard to the degree none of them win.

[ioan]

Thanks bags and K-pu. On another, not fair but possible hand, The EU already up to it's rump with genuine "affects real peope" economic disasters going on within it's membership, may view this thing as a whole bunch of rich guys all bent on tossing their toys from the pram and thump all of them really swift and hard to the degree none of them win.

The EU should first of all look at the thousands of people who will lose their jobs if Max' retarded rules are imposed on this bunch of rich guys.

[wmcot]

It's a master stroke , if it was intended .

I was having a bit of a hard time with the idea that Ferrari would give this up for the appeal without a "plan B" .
This was something they were loath to admit , and now they have , freely .

There's a bigger fish to catch .
It's not just about the rules for next year .

It's about the dictator .

If you are correct, Ferrari may have just out-Maxed Max! I hope someone (anyone, I don't care) is able to put an end to the Max and Bernie show and get back to the real F1 before it's just a forgotten memory - a legend that we only tell our grandkids about.

[harsha]

if ferrari,renault withdraw from F1,there will be no credibility to Formula 1....

and Mclaren also will be happy to withdraw from F1 and organize a parallel racing championship which would be the best thing according to me.

[wmcot]

I wonder what Max and/or Bernie would do if the teams lined up on the grid at Monaco, did the parade lap and then ALL pulled into their garages (ala Indy 2005) as a show of solidarity?

[Garry Walker]

The EU should first of all look at the thousands of people who will lose their jobs if Max' retarded rules are imposed on this bunch of rich guys.

You were so supportive of Max for a long time and one of his biggest defenders on this forum. What happened?

[harsha]

Max is a big rallying point...

everyone likes to take a piss on him :D

[DexDexter]

if ferrari,renault withdraw from F1,there will be no credibility to Formula 1....

and Mclaren also will be happy to withdraw from F1 and organize a parallel racing championship which would be the best thing according to me.

To be honest, nobody cares about Renault, they will leave in a year or two anyway. Ferrari and to some extent Mclaren are much more important to F1.

[ioan]

You were so supportive of Max for a long time and one of his biggest defenders on this forum. What happened?

I don't care about his sexual preferences, however I do care about F1 and I hate the dictatorship that is trying to be instead through the new rules.

[ioan]

To be honest, nobody cares about Renault, they will leave in a year or two anyway. Ferrari and to some extent Mclaren are much more important to F1.

Ferrari and Renault won almost all the championships during the last decade!
McLaren only managed one drivers title during this same period.

[F1boat]

I wonder what Max and/or Bernie would do if the teams lined up on the grid at Monaco, did the parade lap and then ALL pulled into their garages (ala Indy 2005) as a show of solidarity?

No... don't f*** this year races...

[Somebody]

Maybe do it at Turkey - after the "Turkish Cyprus" fiasco, they should have been thrown out anyway if the FIA had followed their own rules...

[ioan]

Nah, if there is a race that deserves not to be run it's Hungaroring, there's no difference if you see a race or only the parade lap, it's very boring anyway.

[wmcot]

No... don't f*** this year races...

It was just a hypothetical question. I would love to see the looks on Max and Bernie's faces, though. The stress might give one of them a stroke. Besides Max and Bernie are the ones f***ing with the racing!

[mstillhere]

Well, it looks like the FIA lunatic behaviour affetcs an other motorsport championship. Read this story, it's incredible..well.....believable......or maybe.............http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75577

No the rules= rules ?

[F1boat]

Well, it looks like the FIA lunatic behaviour affetcs an other motorsport championship. Read this story, it's incredible..well.....believable......or maybe.............http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75577

No the rules= rules ?

WTCC IMO was never attractive, but now it is extremely farcical. Actually FIA mismanages all of their championship, not just F1. WTCC, check, WRC, check...