Indy 500

[jarrambide]

Every year I try to get into the whlo Indy 500 excitement, I really do try, I really want to get excited but I just haven´t been able too.

First let me tell you about my motorsport fan background so you can understand.

As a kid I grew up on Spain and Mexico, both countries have no oval racing history whatsoever. Now, remember that F1 used to race in Mexico during the 80s, I was born in 1974, so as you can see my introduction to racing was a series with no ovals at all, all of the Mexican open wheel racing series had no ovals at all.

As you can guess I don´t like ovals that much, I grew up with road racing, I fall in love with road racing, to be honest I´m glad CC has no ovals this years and very glad IRL is adding more and more road courses.

Also take into consideration that in Spain and Mexico the biggest sport is soccer, in soccer you don´t score very often, but as a fan you live for those moments, because scoring is very hard, a goal is a special moment, it means someone made a GREAT play or osmeone screwed up (or a combination), when you love soccer high scoring games like basketball look very boring, too much scoring means no special or magic moments.

Road racing to me is like soccer, not many passes, but the few are either great passes full of technical ability by the drivers or a mistake or a combination of both, those passes are magic moments, special moments, but an oval is like basketball, too many passes, almost everyone gets to pass someone on an oval.

Is there any hope for me?

[Alexamateo]

Great analogy Jose, I understand it completely, but come from the opposite side.

As you may recall, I am an American married to a Mexican girl. I never had an appreciation of futbol until 2002. My wife's brother came and spent the summer with us. He of course wanted to watch the World Cup, so I was getting up at 2:30 in the morning and watching games with him. Watching games with someone knowledgable really made me love the game and learn it, appreciate it's ebb and flow. I find that some things are like that, they have to be watched at a different level. For me, Baseball, Soccer, and Road Racing are sports you need a certain level of knowledge before you can truly appreciate it. It's different than the over the top entertainment level of Basketball, American Football, or Oval Racing.

That said, the Indianapolis 500 is the greatest race in the world, bar none. I come from Memphis, TN and Memphis is a sprint car town, producing such drivers as Sammy Swindell, Jeff Swindell, Ricky Hood, and Bobby Davis Jr. There wasn't much racing on tv in the late 70's, but my dad would watch it whenever it came on, and he'd taken me a few times to Riverside Speedway (a 1/4 mile dirt track just across the river in West Memphis, AR, (the place the Swindells and the Hoods et al got their start) It's been in continual operation from the 50's up until today.) I liked racing, but my dad got tickets to the 1981 Indy 500 and from then on, I loved it.

Have you ever been to the race? If you ever went there, I think you would know, you would understand. It's the crowd, the noise, the speed, the methanol, the tension in the air in the moments leading up to the race just dripping with history. The tension built up over being there a whole month, (and that's an important part), and of all the years that have gone before leading up to Now. I can feel it even through the television.

Is there hope for you? Sure, just go to the race with someone who knows and appreciates it.

I am not a racing elitist, I like it all. I used to think road racing was boring, but now I see it on a different level, and I'm sure you can learn to appreciate the nuances and flows of Oval racing too. :)

[DocF225]

What makes Indy special is that it's the Granddaddy of all American Racing. The names on the Borg Warner Trophy are a who's who of open wheel racing. Many of the guys on that trophy went on to or came from great sucess in all forms of racing: F1, Stock cars, Endurance etc. Some have moved on to be competitive team owners.

The technical skill of which you speak is evident in every turn, getting the precise line through the turn as fast as the laws of physics will allow.

Go to a race: wander the paddock, feel the horsepower, take in the sights and sounds and you'll be hooked.

[jarrambide]

I have been to oval races DocF225, unfortunately never to the I500, I love wandering the paddock at road courses and oval races (walking trough the pits on road courses is still the second best activity I love doing at a course, watching practice in every turn is my favorite one).
Don´t get me wrong, I didn´t intend to imply that no technical skill is needed in an oval, driving a car that fast for almost all of the race with a wall at one of the ends requires not only skill but also a lot of courage (yes, it´s safer now to be a racer than 10, 20 and 30 years ago, but it´s still for brave men and women), but it is a lot more difficult to pass someone on a road course than on an oval, it´s the nature of road courses, passing is very hard.
Some people find road courses boring just because of that, passing is so hard you only get a few passes, others like me find that because it is so hard to do, and because you only get a few a lot more exciting, others find ovals very exciting because of all of the passing, almost every lap most of the drivers are either trying to pass or defend their position, others like me find them entertaining but without special moments.
WHat I´m trying to say is that I find oval races entertaining, almost every race is very entertaining, very hard to get a boring oval race, but also very difficult to get an outstanding oval race, road courses on the other side you get quite a few boring races, you get some good races, and you get a very few outstanding races, thos kind of races you will talk about for years, but as my grandfather used to say about bull fighting, you have to attend andwatch every one to get the outstanding one.
But then again, who knows what my tastes would be like if I was born in the US and my dad had took me to CART races instead of F1 races.

[Jonesi]

snip...Road racing to me is like soccer, not many passes, but the few are either great passes full of technical ability by the drivers or a mistake or a combination of both, those passes are magic moments, special moments, but an oval is like basketball, too many passes, almost everyone gets to pass someone on an oval.
Is there any hope for me?

Except in the history of Indy there hasn't been alot of passes. Before IRL with low hp and high drag, drivers would wait for the right time, fuel load, tire wear, etc willing to pace themselves for 10-20 laps waiting for the right time to go, and experienced viewers could spot it developing.

[indycool]

The "500" is one of those events that can't be captured as well on television as if you were there. I live in Indianapolis. I've discovered that people who reside here tell their friends from out of town that "you hafta come just once" to experience it. To road-racing oriented fans, I expect that's a little like Le Mans. The culture and magnitude of it ARE different from other events.

The town is Speedway, Indiana. The Indiana quarter has an Indy car on it. If you get a card to the Speedway library, it has an Indy car on it. The town of Speedway's fire trucks have an array of flags painted on the sides. Many fans park at Speedway High School, home of the Speedway Sparkplugs. As you fly into the airport in Indy, from the right side of the plane in the glide path, you get a spectacular view of how big the Speedway is. Four holes of the Brickyard Crossing golf course are in the infield. Crawfordsville Road, leading to the Speedway, has a median decorated with "500" banners for two miles. IMS was named a National Historic Landmark in the U.S. many years ago.

It's different, in the world's largest seating facility.

[jarrambide]

Will have to judge again after attending the race then.

[ZzZzZz]

To people like Al Unser Jr., it was *the* career goal. Much bigger than any other win or championship. So it's like winning the World Cup, Super Bowl or Le Mans. You could see it in his face, hear it in his voice when he told the announcer "You just don't know what Indy means" after his first win. It's the last pass that matters - that's the special moment. It's not like any other oval race and different from any other premier race.

These days it's diluted, which I'm sure contributes to the difficulty in grasping its context. Even some of the winners don't seem to get it or appreciate it. If you saw top driver from several other series showing up with serious efforts each year, you'd quickly "get it".

When NASCAR first went there, there was a respectful effort to refer to their race as "The Brickyard". That has faded as you regularly hear the shorthand "Indy" in regards to their race there. It's devaluing the name.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think the fact NASCAR is there has helped dilute the Indy 500 and its impact. Now there are three races there, and one is f1 and happens in its own bubble where most of America pays little attention to it. That said, NASCAR being there has taken away some of the lustre of the 500. Letting the biggest competitor for fans and attention show up and run a premier race on your biggest stage has done little for OW racing but put more money in Tony George's jeans so he can afford to lose money elsewhere.

I love the Indy 500, and I loved it a lot when people would leave other series to show up for a shot at it. I loved the testing results being on the radio and the speculation as people shopped for rides. I loved the drama of bubble day and how a really good team or driver could gamble on an earlier time making the field, and then be caught short by time trying to requalify once they were out of the 33. When Penske's super team was shut out, it gave a new meaning to drama.

All of that is now gone. Yes the IRL cars put on a good show, and yes, it still is a big deal to win it, but not what it was. You have some damned good drivers through politics not racing there. You have no more drama in qualfiying, and you don't have the diversity of cars and teams in the field no more. The cinderella story of the guy showing up with a stock block and being competitive is no longer possible. In short, all the things I loved about Indy are now part of history and no longer part of the reality.

I think the Indianapolis 500 is a great race, and is the biggest race in Open wheeled racing. As a one day event, I think it is right there with LeMans for an experience you have to be at to appreciate. That said, its star has fallen. I hope to go there and have a beer with IC and argue about the merits of all that has gone on, and see the race. I have watched on tv for years, and even up here in Canada, we used to get reports daily on the news on how testing was going every May. We haven't had that the last few years to the same extent.....

[jarrambide]

But why should NASCAR running there dilute the race?
Perhaps for Indiana residents that have now 2 (3 with F1) races they can attend, but I just don´t get it with TV fans, why would having other series run in the same venue dilute the race, I ask this because I have heard this many times from many open wheel fans, not just you guys.
But then again, I also don´t understand the one race bigger than the whole series concept which has been connected with the Indy 500 since USAC, I remember almost everyone preferes winning Indy than the championship in those days, to me that is just not right, to be a series champion you need to drive great for a whole year, to win one race you just nheed to have a great day and that´s it, perhaps that´s why I have troubles grasping Indy now that i think of it, to me it makes sense that every race is as important as the rest, and although tradition is important to me the biggest an dmost important part of a racing series is winning the championship.

[jarrambide]

But why should NASCAR running there dilute the race?
Perhaps for Indiana residents that have now 2 (3 with F1) races they can attend, but I just don´t get it with TV fans, why would having other series run in the same venue dilute the race, I ask this because I have heard this many times from many open wheel fans, not just you guys.
But then again, I also don´t understand the one race bigger than the whole series concept which has been connected with the Indy 500 since USAC, I remember almost everyone preferes winning Indy than the championship in those days, to me that is just not right, to be a series champion you need to drive great for a whole year, to win one race you just nheed to have a great day and that´s it, perhaps that´s why I have troubles grasping Indy now that i think of it, to me it makes sense that every race is as important as the rest, and although tradition is important to me the biggest an dmost important part of a racing series is winning the championship.

[Alexamateo]

But doesn't every series have a race or races that are preferred to win above all others. Is San Jose the equal of Long Beach? Is Bahrain the equal of Monaco? Is Kansas the equal of Daytona? I don't think that in the mind of the participants they are.

[jarrambide]

Alexamateo, you are right, some races are preferred, but no race is bigger than the championship, no driver would change Monaco (which I personally don´t like very much) for the championship, or Long Beach for the championship, but Indy 500 for some drivers is and was bigger than the championship, I´m not saying that is wrong just that because I don´t think that is right I also don´t see why having NASCAR using the venue dilutes the race, to me they could use a track for 40 different races and that wouldn´t change anything for me regarding the race of my favorite series, but I have heard from many fans that NASCAR has diluted Indy, I don´t see a track beeing so special, you do, for you Indy is not only about the race it´s a lot more, to some of you using it for other races is almost a blasphemy.
Why did Indy became important in the first place?

[Alexamateo]

I agree that The Indy 500 is not diminished by NASCAR and F1 being there. It might affect attendance because there are now 3 major events in the span of 90-120 days, but I think Indy is enhanced by this, a F1 race, a NASCAR race that quickly became one of the most coveted trophies and of course the INDY 500. If I was in charge, I would only run major series there and not things like the IPS(feeder series), but no one asked me. :)

As far as why it became so important, you could write a book on that, and many have. I know that early on, they ran 500 miles when no one else did, and they paid more money than anyone so it attracted a lot of attention. It attracted enough attention to merit inclusion on the F1 schedule for 10 years even though hardly anyone made the trip at the time. All these things build over time and tradition to make it what it is.

Also, a side note on the championship AAA and USAC paid max points on the basis of miles. A 100 mile race paid 200 pts to the winner, while the 500 paid 1000 points. Many times the Indy 500 winner did win the championship or at the very least had a huge leg up on the competition. This continued up until 1980. (even CART used this system its first two years) I am sure this also contributed to the overall psyche of Indy.

[DonnieB]

Indy was special because everything else was so small and insignificant in comparison. It was the only 500 mile race in the U.S. The rest were less than 250 miles--100 to 150 was pretty standard. People entered Indy who didn't normally race in the championship series otherwise. They built special cars, many that were unique and innovative--cars that couldn't be found in other races. Indy paid so much more than the others that it was only worth the effort to do so for that one race. A driver could win everything else for the season and still come out with less money than the 500 winner. Some of the cars were so new and different each year that it took a whole month to sort them out and get them ready to qualify. The stakes were so high that those who were using more conventional equipment wanted to try to squeeze the last bit of performance out of them, and spent the month trying things that they wouldn't normally try for any other race. Imagine if the NASCAR season consisted of the Daytona 500 and 20 other races of 150-200 laps on short tracks that paid $5000 to win. That is why Indy was so much bigger than everything else.

Before 1950, Indy was the only track in the country larger that a mile. The 500 was far and away bigger than anything else in the country. Then came Darlington and the Southern 500 for stock cars. That is when NASCAR began diluting the Indy 500. In 1959 came the Daytona 500. In the early 60's a half-dozen superspeedways were built for NASCAR and all of them ran 400, 500 or 600 mile races. Bill France made 500 milers a staple for NASCAR, and was turning many short track events into 500 lappers. Indy cars had one 500 mile race a year. The stock car guys had a dozen of them. That had some diluting effect on the Indy 500. Then adding a NASCAR race to the Brickyard followed. Indy had always been used for that one special race, that took a whole month to prepare for and run, and these other guys come in and desecrate the sacred bricks. How dare they?

USAC finally began adding bigger races in the late 60's and early 70's or thereabouts. Indy cars started running at Ontario, CA and Pocono, PA in 500 mile races. Michigan was added as a 500. Later it became a 400. I don't think these events would have happened if NASCAR hadn't made such a big deal out of having 500 mile races.

If one wasn't around when Indy was the only 500 mile race, it would seem today like Indy is overemphasized, because there are so many other big events going on, 400, 500 and 600 mile races all over the place. One race is easy to lose track of in the heap of big events that happens every year, but remember that Indy was huge long before any of the others existed, and today it is still riding on that tradition, even though many of the things that made it special have been diminished or done away with--the innovation and creativity, the one-off efforts by teams from other forms of racing, the fact that it is the only race of its kind.

I still think if IMS were to shut down today, American OW formula car racing would soon abandon all oval events and talk of the need for diversity of venues would cease.

[ZzZzZz]

But why should NASCAR running there dilute the race?

To answer your question literally, it shouldn't. I don't think F1 does and I don't think NASCAR did at first. But when The SPEED Report says Jimmie Johnson "won Indy" this year (not "won at Indy" or won "The Brickyard"), something is wrong.

It comes down to incompetent track management. Only some of the better NASCAR drivers are good enough to compete in the Indy 500. Before the schedule change, a couple of them entered each year. That clearly positioned Indy as the superior event to the Brickyard 400. No one dared calling an Brickyard win an Indy win.

Move the schedule back and you'll get 2-3 NASCAR drivers each year. If you really want to go balls out, move the race (back) to Monday and you'll get 6-8 of 'em. The ratings would skyrocket!

I remember pre-split, when I'd talk about going to an IndyCar race to people. Being the same cars that run Indy meant a lot to non-race fans. So, I think that one easy change, properly managed, can clearly raise the stock of OW racing in this country. (Tony Stewart, Jeff Gorgon, Robby Gordon, Kasey Kahne, Jimmie Johnson and Juan Montoya would all do everything they could to make it. They've all said as much, and they're all good enough to vie for a win. There's no question they could all secure proper sponsorship, either.)

[grassrootsracer]

I don't want to sidetrack some of the excellent posts in this thread. However, many of the stories from the elder members of this board make me jealous that I was not able to see the Indy 500 in its hey day, as you all describe it.

[Alexamateo]

ZzZzZz, I agree with you on drivers doing the double, They could also change to Saturday. Originally, of course they ran on Memorial Day, but not on Sunday. When the US moved to the Monday holiday every year, They ran on Saturday for 3 or 4 years. There's nothing in tradition that says they can't do that again. They could have Sunday as a rain day and chances are, they could get drivers to do the double again.

[Phoenixent]

What makes Indy special is that it's the Granddaddy of all American Racing. The names on the Borg Warner Trophy are a who's who of open wheel racing. Many of the guys on that trophy went on to or came from great sucess in all forms of racing: F1, Stock cars, Endurance etc. Some have moved on to be competitive team owners.



I agree with you DocF225 on Indy 500 being special and for drivers to say it's not they are kidding themselves. The history of that one race puts it ahead of all others. When a driver wins the Indy 500 he becomes a racing god. Their names are engraved forever in the history of the world. For those that don't believe see if you can remember with out looking it up who won the 1986 Indy 500 and the drive that won 1986 Daytona 500. More people will know the Indy winner from 1986. The same goes for the Brickyard 400 winners the meaning is not the same in though it run on the same track.

[Phoenixent]

Will have to judge again after attending the race then.

You will never forget that sight and sound. I was never able to go to IMS but did go the next best thing. IMS twin sister Ontairo Motor Speedway. What a track and the skill and courage it took to drive there. The only Super Speedways that required a lot of skill were Indy,Ontario and Pocono to drive them. At the 1.5 to 2 mile D shape ovals the track is helping you drive because of the banking. But Indy, Ontario and Pocono the banking was not as steep and you had to work at driving those ovals. Ontario has been gone for almost 30 years but I can still see them racing against the track and cars.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jose, to understand the magic of what was Indy, you have to read the history. Like it was said, it was the only major race around for a lot of years, and for many years, it was the only time the drivers didn't race on dirt or clay.

Not to mention no where on the earth do you find a facility with 400000 seats and see them all full plus the infield full of humanity.

NASCAR by being at Indy has stolen some of the lustre. The Brickyard was sacred turf for only open wheeled race cars. When NASCAR showed up, a different fan was allowed in, and there is nothing wrong with that but the media now treats the Brickyard 400 for NASCAR as an equal for the Indy 500. It isn't in the minds of us open wheeled fans, but it is yet another example of NASCAR moving in and dominating thought and interest in the eyes of the public.

No, letting the barbarians past the gates has diminished the magic of Indy.

The Indianpolis 500 was one of the greatest events in racing, and still is to a point. IT was THE event right up into the 80's....when NASCAR started to really get exposure for the Daytona 500. Now if you look at TV ratings, NASCAR kills the IRL in every race, including the Indy 500. That said, to go to it live I hear is one of the greatest things to see live. The traditition and sight of 33 cars trying to run into corner one on the start is something that has to be seen live. I haven't been, but have relatives who have, and I know from their experience I missed something.....

[ZzZzZz]

ZzZzZz, I agree with you on drivers doing the double, They could also change to Saturday. Originally, of course they ran on Memorial Day, but not on Sunday. When the US moved to the Monday holiday every year, They ran on Saturday for 3 or 4 years. There's nothing in tradition that says they can't do that again. They could have Sunday as a rain day and chances are, they could get drivers to do the double again.


Sounds good to me. Don't think there's any conflicts running Saturday. Hey, wasn't the 600 originally Saturday? I seem to recall the change in the early '90s..?

[indycool]

No, there were a couple of years in the early '70s that Indy ran on Saturday instead of Sunday and Charlotte was on Sunday. I can remember people trying to take in both with overnight flights. Back then, it wasn't easy.

[DocF225]

No, letting the barbarians past the gates has diminished the magic of Indy.

The Indianpolis 500 was one of the greatest events in racing, and still is to a point. IT was THE event right up into the 80's....when NASCAR started to really get exposure for the Daytona 500. Now if you look at TV ratings, NASCAR kills the IRL in every race, including the Indy 500. That said, to go to it live I hear is one of the greatest things to see live. The traditition and sight of 33 cars trying to run into corner one on the start is something that has to be seen live. I haven't been, but have relatives who have, and I know from their experience I missed something.....

Well said. I live 45 minutes from Lime Rock in CT. Every year I get to watch some of the best in amateur and professional sports car racing. LRP also hosts a Busch East (formerly North) event in October. It is a totally different place when the rednecks arrive. They run the Busch cars in the AM and follow up with SCCA and/or other sports car races. After the Busch cars are done the rednecks packup their coolers and can't leave the park fast enough.
Yup NASCAR changes the whole mystique and nuance (I'll wait while the NASCAR fans look those two words up) of the historic tracks. Same thing when the Rednecks decend upon The Glen.

The reality of NASCAR is they have the money. Mr. France turned a redneck amusement into a marketing juggernaut absorbing as many racing dollars as possible. Thet leaves very little left over for the other racing disciplines.

Here in the US, if you say "I'm going to the races", people automatically assume you mean hillbilly redneck round and round. When I politely explain that it's a Sports Car race they get a slack-jawed vacant stare.

[indycool]

Mark, I believe there was something like six or seven NASCAR races that outrated the Indianapolis 500 on TV in '06.

[Mark in Oshawa]

IC, and every NASCAR race on TV including most of the Busch ones out draw all the other IRL and Champ Car events on TV. NASCAR is the 500 lb. gorilla of motorsports in the US of A and to give them the biggest and best stage for racing in North America was in my mind, a mistake. Legitimacy is everything, and until NASCAR showed up at Indy, they always talked about the great race in May.

Doc, be nice to the rednecks at the Glen, I used to go there for the NASCAR event. I like NASCAR truth be told, but only on road courses and short ovals. Stock Cars are a ton of fun, but some of their fans require some getting used to. What I have always resented is how no one thinks of racing anymore except as either f1 or NASCAR. Indy cars/Champ Cars blew their own market in two, and with the confusion to the race fan who really isn't serious, it was just too easy to tune them all out.

The Indianapolis 500 is still a great spectacle, and for one day, it is the racing capital of the world, but the rest of the year, no one cares any more, and that lack of interest is dragging Indy into being just a big race among many others on the calender. I would wager that most people would now rather have Brickyard 400 tickets than Indy 500 tickets in markets other than Indianapolis.

[indycool]

No argument there......

[jarrambide]

Ok Mark, but let me ask you a question that is not east to answer.
You said Indy 500 is still great, for one day it is th ecapital of racing, but that no one cares the rest of the year.
As a fan, would you exchange Indy 500 as the great race for a racing series stronger than NASCAR?, If a genie came to you and said he could do that, would you say yes?

[indycool]

jarrambide, I'll try to answer that. I don't think it's a good question for several reasons. The Daytona 500 was far and away the highlight of the NASCAR season for many years and the series grew up around it with the legend of the Southern 500, new tracks like Pocono, Michigan, Talladega, etc., being built in the late '60s and early '70s.

So, "trading" the "500" for a strong series just isn't the way something like that is going to work. And would that strong series even BE stronger than NASCAR? In what way? NASCAR races 36 weekends a year and you can't run these cars that much, so NASCAR is ALWAYS going to be in the news more often because it's MAKING news more often.

Besides that, there's no "mythical trophy" for either the IRL or CC or anyone else to be "stronger" than NASCAR. It doesn't exist.

[jarrambide]

I´m not saying you could exchange the 500 for a stronger series, that´s why I used the genie example, if an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient beeing gave you that choice, would you say yes or no?, I´m interested in the answer, not on the possibility of happening IC, this is all just an exercise in what if.
If I knew the way to create a trong series I would not be just a fan would I? ;) Just look at A1GP, all the money in the world, racing around the world, paying for media coverage in a lot of counries and hardly any fans yet.

[Alexamateo]

Jose,

It's sort of a fallacy. (like saying if God can do anything, can He make a rock too heavy for Him to lift.) You cannot have the strong series without an anchor race and/or history and tradition. The A1GP is an example, because no matter how great the concept is, you can't buy history and tradition.

This is what drew the CART teams back. Roger Penske, Chip Ganassi et al, they feel the draw. Sponsors too. Show the average person on the street a picture of the DP-01 and he'll say "oh, an Indy Car."

So, I guess the answer would be no for me because I think it's almost impossible to seperate the two.

[Alexamateo]

Off topic- I think the A1GP concept is great, but like I said, they'll have to run a few years and grow an audience. If they can survive their incubancy, it could eventually be great.

Put simply, it's the only race in America I have an ambition to attend one day.

To the Americans on this board, please don't be offended by this, but actually it's the only reason I'll ever cross the Atlantic.

[indycool]

Think Alexamateo said it best, Jarrambide. The idea of building a strong open-wheel series in the U.S. without the Indianapolis 500 really can't happen, IMO. If the "500" was a new race at a new track, that would be different. But it's not, for the reasons I posted earlier.

It's like asking if you could have the PGA Tour without the Masters. You could do it, but it wouldn't BE as strong.

[jarrambide]

Ok, then.

What about books about why Indy became Indy?, a few have said there are plenty of them but surely noit all of them are good, and better to ask fans about good racing books.
Garyshell for example via email recommended me a book written by Denise McCluggage that turn out to be a great, great book.

[indycool]

jarrambide, there have been a number of books written about Indy and a number of Indy-winning drivers have written autobiographies, plus the yearbooks that go all the way back to the Clymer years of the '30s. Many are sold through the Speedway gift shop. I have one that my late father gave me many years ago written by the late Wilbur Shaw. The Speedway Public Library has quite a collection. The Speedway itself has a library to peruse by appointment only.

Movies go back to Mickey Rooney as "Billy Coy" and I believe Clark Gable made one before that. Then came "Winning" with Paul Newman.

[jarrambide]

So you recommend the Wilbur Shaw book and the books on the IMS web page(I´m assuming they have the gift shop online also) then?

[jarrambide]

Double Post

[jarrambide]

And that is why the only long term hope for OW in America is for the two series to find some reconcilliation.
Don´t wanna go there, every year we all get high hopes and then nothing comes out of it, I have decided to think as a fan thet NO reconcilliation wil ever happen, if it does I will be very happy, but if it doesn´t I will not be disappointed.

[Jonesi]

jarrambide, there have been a number of books written about Indy and a number of Indy-winning drivers have written autobiographies, plus the yearbooks that go all the way back to the Clymer years of the '30s. Many are sold through the Speedway gift shop. I have one that my late father gave me many years ago written by the late Wilbur Shaw. The Speedway Public Library has quite a collection. The Speedway itself has a library to peruse by appointment only.

Movies go back to Mickey Rooney as "Billy Coy" and I believe Clark Gable made one before that. Then came "Winning" with Paul Newman.

To Please a Lady 1950
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0043052/

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't know if there is any one book I read on the history of the 500, except I have read so many that it became obvious to me that Indy was no ordinary event.

I think in the end Jose, you have to go to the 500 some day, or at least see the race track on a tour. I have not been that lucky, but some day I will get there. I think really did it for me was the fact that for many years, very few races ever were shown on TV except highly edited. The 500 used to be on tape delay as ABC squashed it into a 3 hour broadcast, but it was more racing than any other series. You saw the pagentry and you saw the start, most of the middle and finish. When I was a kid growing up, we never saw much of any series except for taped summaries, or in the case of the Daytona 500, they would step in about lap 80. It wasn't until the beginnings of the 500 channel universe that racing was able to be shown every weekend. IN the beginning, it was just Indy, and you looked forward to it. It is the Masters of OW racing in North America.....

[ZzZzZz]

Jose, "They Call me Mister 500" by Anthony Granatelli

http://www.amazon.com/They-Call-Me-Mister-500/dp/0809296357/sr=1-1/qid=1166082890/ref=sr_1_1/002-2406032-6711210?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Mark in Oshawa]

ZzZzZz, that would be the one that might give him an insight to what it meant in the early years for sure.

[indycool]

Agree, Mark.....that's a great one....and there's been others more recent -- Johnny Rutherford had one come out just a few years ago that was good.

[jarrambide]

Ok then, will have to check the recomendations.

[Mark in Oshawa]

IC, the problem with the Rutherford book is it did not come out up here in Canada, or if it did, it never hit the shelves for too long. Like I said, racing up here is not really into the IRL and things Indy. F1 and NASCAR books sell well and anything else on racing is hit and miss. I found the Granatelli book while I was in high school ( too many years ago!!!) and I just loved the guy's pomposity but real guts. Andy loves to blow his own horn but he deserved to. He has done more than 10 of us could dream of. The kick I got is I looked up on the net and he is still alive. He would be a real kick in the @ss to meet wouldn't you think??

I had another book with the history of the racing car and a whole big chapter devoted to the history of the Indy Car/Champ Car, but I lost track of it in the last move. I do know if Jose had a chance to understand the history of the great roadsters and the culture that surrounded Indy in the 50's, he would then maybe understand why people have such a fondness for the 500. Whatever I may think of Tony George, I have to respect that his love for the 500 is geniune and the respect he has kept for the racing plant that is the IMS. IT is an dinosaur in that no one would build a track that flat, that square and that big NOW, but how it brings out the best in a race team and driver nevertheless. I would watch more oval races if they were on flat tracks like Phoenix and Indy, and stay the heck away from Texas and the rest of the 1.5/ 2 mile cookie cutters.

[indycool]

Understand, Mark. Now that I've thought about it, there are some great historical books available from Dick Wallen Productions, some of which I have, like "History of the Board Tracks," etc. These are HUGE coffee table books. One that is an antique now and hard to find is History of the "500" by Jack Fox, which came out sometime in the '60s. I don't have that one. It's real hard to find anyone who does.

The market for open-wheel racing books isn't too strong in the U.S. Gordon Kirby wrote Emerson Fittipaldi's book and sales in the U.S. were weak but stronger in other parts of the world.

Canada DOES have a history at Indy. The first Canadian driver I remember (not necessarily the first one) is Billy Foster, who came out of the Vancouver area to race supermodifieds in the '60s. Later came Cliff Hucul, George Eaton and Ludwig Heimrath Jr., to Indy. Ludwig Heimrath Sr. drove some Indy cars, as I recall, on the road courses when place like Mosport were on the circuit in the late '60s, but never made it to Indy. Then came the modern group of Jacques Villeneuve, Scott Goodyear, Paul Tracy, etc.

I HAVE had the pleasure of meeting Granatelli. He still gives an annual "Unsung Hero" Award at the Saturday driver's meeting before the "500," and frequently becomes involved in political issues. I remember reading a quote from him once in which he said, "If they would have allowed my turbine to run, we'd never have an oil crisis." They called it a "perfume burner," one of the most unique cars of all time, which almost won the race with Parnelli Jones up.

[turbo-engine]

I'm going to the 500 this year for the very first time. This will also be my first visit to the States. I'm planning to see the Indy festival parade, but you gotta buy tickets for it. Is there any chance of attending the parade without to buy tickets? Being a German without a credit card, it is not easy to get them.

Thanks for your answers

[indycool]

You should be able to get them at the gate or on the street for the parade.........just looked in the phone book......."500" Festival's phone number is 317-927-3378 in Indianapolis, however you might hafta dial it from there. They might be able to give you more info.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Understand, Mark. Now that I've thought about it, there are some great historical books available from Dick Wallen Productions, some of which I have, like "History of the Board Tracks," etc. These are HUGE coffee table books. One that is an antique now and hard to find is History of the "500" by Jack Fox, which came out sometime in the '60s. I don't have that one. It's real hard to find anyone who does.

The market for open-wheel racing books isn't too strong in the U.S. Gordon Kirby wrote Emerson Fittipaldi's book and sales in the U.S. were weak but stronger in other parts of the world.

Canada DOES have a history at Indy. The first Canadian driver I remember (not necessarily the first one) is Billy Foster, who came out of the Vancouver area to race supermodifieds in the '60s. Later came Cliff Hucul, George Eaton and Ludwig Heimrath Jr., to Indy. Ludwig Heimrath Sr. drove some Indy cars, as I recall, on the road courses when place like Mosport were on the circuit in the late '60s, but never made it to Indy. Then came the modern group of Jacques Villeneuve, Scott Goodyear, Paul Tracy, etc.

I HAVE had the pleasure of meeting Granatelli. He still gives an annual "Unsung Hero" Award at the Saturday driver's meeting before the "500," and frequently becomes involved in political issues. I remember reading a quote from him once in which he said, "If they would have allowed my turbine to run, we'd never have an oil crisis." They called it a "perfume burner," one of the most unique cars of all time, which almost won the race with Parnelli Jones up.

I know Foster and Hucul ran at Indy, I didn't think Eaton did. Heimrath Sr is a man I know very well from seeing him at Mosport, and I almost found it hard to believe the congenial German guy with the smile on his face is that same guy. I guess because I met him a few times before I knew what he had accomplished, I guess it was kind of taken for granted.

No, for me, when Scott Goodyear had his 2nd, that cranked up my enthusiam to see a Canadian win the big one, and of course, JV did it, running 505 miles!!! Let it be said, in a sense he has done something no other driver has done, run 505 miles to beat the other guys running 500 miles.

[indycool]

Good catch, Mark.....when you questioned it, I looked it up. Eaton DIDN'T make the show at Indy, although I think he tried once......I'd hafta dig further to find that out......

[MarcoCheever]

I'm going to the 500 this year for the very first time. This will also be my first visit to the States. I'm planning to see the Indy festival parade, but you gotta buy tickets for it. Is there any chance of attending the parade without to buy tickets? Being a German without a credit card, it is not easy to get them.

Thanks for your answers

you don't need tickets for the parade but only for a seat.
A seat may be nice but you'll enjoy it just fine with out and you can buy them at the parade. The parade is fun and I hope you enjoy it.

People cheer for the drivers and Jim Nabors and all !

I hope you enjoy your trip to the states !

[turbo-engine]

Thanks Indycool, and thanks MarcoCheever! I think I will have a lot of fun in the states. I've always wanted to be there. And as a fan of open wheel oval racing there is nothing better than watching cars going over 230 mph. I've seen the German 500, Formula one and DTM at Hockenheimring, but the 500 definitely is the greatest race in the world. I'm looking forward to enjoying that spectacle. The festival parade is gonna be the cherry on a big cake.
Just one more question.......IRL cars are much louder than turbo charged champcars, aren't they?

[indycool]

It's a different "tone" than a turbo CC. It's a lower tone and most people feel it's louder. Plus, expect it louder than other races you have gone to, regardless, because IMS is like an amphitheater 2 1/2 miles around and the noise bounces off the people and the concrete, etc. and holds it in. Ear plugs are a good idea and are usually available around Indy. I live about 3 miles from the track and if atmospheric conditions are "right," with just a few cars testing, I can hear 'em from my front porch.

Incidentally, for those of you who were looking for books earlier, a new Autocourse book by Donald Davidson and Rick Shaffer has just come out as an official history of the "500." It was just announced yesterday.

For info, go to:

http://www.brickyard.com/

[turbo-engine]

Man, I'm so excited! I wish the race would start tomorrow. Still about 4 months to wait. I've got turn 4 tickets. I hope that's a nice place to watch the race.

[indycool]

A lot of people think Turn 4 is one of the BEST places to watch the race. Depending on how high up you are, you can see cars enter Turn 3, come through the north short chute, through Turn 4 and down the front straight into Turn 1 and there's a big Jumbotron down there, too.

[turbo-engine]

A lot of people think Turn 4 is one of the BEST places to watch the race. Depending on how high up you are, you can see cars enter Turn 3, come through the north short chute, through Turn 4 and down the front straight into Turn 1 and there's a big Jumbotron down there, too.

That was my idea when I bought those tickets, although some people said that turn 1 was a better place to be. Hopefully it will turn out to be the right descision.

[indycool]

I have some family which sits in Turn 1. They say the start is pretty spectacular from there with the cars coming straight at you.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I would want to be just short of Turn one, overlooking the pit exit. I would want to see the start from there, and see cars in and out of the pits.

[turbo-engine]

A couple of weeks ago I bought a new camcorder, but I didn't think of one thing: are people allowed to take along a camcorder or camera to the track on race day? I posted this question on another forum, too. Somebody said it would be no problem as long as I don't make any money off the footage.
It says on the ticket:

"The ticket holder grants IMS and its designees the right to use the holder's image and/or likeness in any live or recorded video display or other transmission or reproduction of the event, including without limitation his/her rights of publicity. All rights to broadcast, record, photograph, repeat, reproduce or recreate the event are reserved by IMS. The ticket holder agrees not to take any action, or cause others to take any action, which would infringe on the rights of IMS or designees."

On the Brickyard homepage it says: "All rights to broadcast, record, photograph, repeat or recreate these events are reserved."

I can't make nothing of it. Does that mean I am not allowed to take along my camcorder in order to make private video clips? I would not make any money off my footage.

[Alexamateo]

Take your camcorder and enjoy, but if Danica Patrick and Milka Duno wreck each other and get in a cat fight in the old "snake pit" and you film it. You can't sell it to Entertainment Tonight. :p :

[harvick#1]

I already see the 500 being dominated by Wheldon again :)

[indycool]

Well, some folks have some catching up to do.....and usually do......but Ganassi/Wheldon is unlikely to stand still, either.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I hope for the sake of all race fans that the English Midget doesn't win. A more unsympathetic star could not be found. Wheldon has no real charm to me, and I would love this Indy to be good race with a real underdog in the winner's circle...

[DavePI2]

this will be my first 500 to attend. I will be in grandstand a, i believe my seats are at the end to pit lane, not sure though. I was in c for the brickyard, very good seats accross from the backmarker pits and could see most of between 3-4 and complete front stretch. I was in the paddock for the gp . Except for the beginning of that race thought they were bad seats. I was hoping to watch a lot of pit action from the f1 teams but montoya took out 1/3 of the field on the first turn and ruined that. I understand the best seats for the gp or in grandstand j and that is what i bought for it this year.

David

[DavePI2]

Last year I took my camcorder too indy and was able to get some good film of both F1 and Brickyard races. Michigan also allows camcorders, as well as midohio. Beware though, if you are going to Kentucky leave the camcorder at home, it is a long way back to the parking lot.

David

[Captain_Rohn]

They definitly let you bring a camcorder in. I've taken mine in for the past three years. This is going to be my 6th Indy 500 in a row....always look forward to the month of May. There's a group of 18 of us who go every year, some have been going longer than others. You will find us on one of the many golf courses around the area, during race weekend and on race day seated in the Southeast Vista, Section 32, the first six seats of rows T,U,V. Usually cheering on PDM Racing, as one of the members of the group is related to Paul Diatlavich owner of PDM. If we are lucky enough and PDM completes the race, we get to hang out in the garage after the race. Unfortanetly I can only recall visiting the garage twice in the past 5 year. It's just an awesome time...