Button

[Knock-on]

We discuss drivers when they do something wrong but rarely when they do something right.

Button has come alive this year and dominated his hugely experienced team mate.

Some foolish people were even claiming Button would have his ass handed to him on a plate by Rubens!

Yet we have just had a weekend where Rubens was awesome and in the sort of form that makes monkeys out of anyone yet Button still outdrove him.

OK, some people will still not be able to accept this and claim Ross sabotaged Rubens race by changing Jensons strategy but the facts is that Jenson drove like a champion and made that race win his.

I'm so glad that he has the opportunity to finally show his class and hope he keeps it going. I certainly think he will be the best champion for F1 for a long time.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I always felt he would win races if given a race-winning car. I'm glad he's been given the opportunity at long last.

[555-04Q2]

Rubens race was sabotaged ;)

Seriously though, I have never really liked Button, I dont really have anything against the guy, but he never ticked the right boxes for me.

So far this season though, he is ticking all the right boxes and I have been very impressed with him. Yeah he has the best car, but you still have to finish the race and beat your teamate, no matter who that teamate happens to be. He also hasnt put a foot wrong all season.

He still isint one of my favourites, nor do I place him in the top 3 F1 drivers column, but the boy is getting the job done and for that he deserves some praise :up:

[555-04Q2]

I always felt he would win races if given a race-winning car. I'm glad he's been given the opportunity at long last.

Every driver in F1 is capable of winning in a top car, thats why they are in F1. There is no such thing as a bad F1 driver, merely some that are better than others, and some that are purely spectacular. Its what they do with that top car that matters.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Every driver in F1 is capable of winning in a top car, thats why they are in F1. There is no such thing as a bad F1 driver, merely some that are better than others, and some that are purely spectacular. Its what they do with that top car that matters.

That's a fair point.

Button has been provided with a race-winning car, and has grabbed the opportunity with both hands, winning 4 out of 5 races in a commanding fashion. He is clearly getting the best (or close to the best) out of his car.

Not every driver is capable of that.

[Tazio]

JB is in a groove. He's on fire right now. He takes everything the car gives him.
His final quali lap showed he can handle the pressure!
He is able to stay within his style, and I think he is getting better traction out of the hard compounds with his "smooth" style,
as opposed to the way Rubens likes to throw the car into the turns. It was pretty apparent to me in Spain.
He is also out-breaking RB!
Jenson has comported himself well, and if he keeps his head on straight he's going to be tough to beat. Still early times however!
He still has a fight on his hands with Fettel, and RB ;)

[555-04Q2]

That's a fair point.

Button has been provided with a race-winning car, and has grabbed the opportunity with both hands, winning 4 out of 5 races in a commanding fashion. He is clearly getting the best (or close to the best) out of his car.

Not every driver is capable of that.

:up:

He is starting to impress me. I never really rated Button, he's good, but I never really rated him as one of the best. What he is doing in the Brawn this season is really impressing me. By season end, he could be the WDC, maybe even comfortably the WDC, and that would be impressive.

[F1boat]

We discuss drivers when they do something wrong but rarely when they do something right.

Button has come alive this year and dominated his hugely experienced team mate.

Some foolish people were even claiming Button would have his ass handed to him on a plate by Rubens!

Yet we have just had a weekend where Rubens was awesome and in the sort of form that makes monkeys out of anyone yet Button still outdrove him.

OK, some people will still not be able to accept this and claim Ross sabotaged Rubens race by changing Jensons strategy but the facts is that Jenson drove like a champion and made that race win his.

I'm so glad that he has the opportunity to finally show his class and hope he keeps it going. I certainly think he will be the best champion for F1 for a long time.

I agree and I hope that Brawn GP can hold the RBR to give Jenson what he deserves.

[wedge]

Button showing the makings of a champion with a couple of superb race winning drives.

Vettel is dissappointing me by not having balls to switch to a Plan B rather hoping Plan A will work.

[christophulus]

The car is a factor but Button has been seriously impressive so far this year :up: . Finally showing the pace that many people expected of him, perhaps if he'd jumped ship from Honda a few years back he'd have already been more successful.

[SGWilko]

Ever since JB put his williams on the front row at Spa way back when, I knew he was a real talent.

Apart from having the second best car (to Ferrari) in '04, now he finally has the car to showcase his obvious ability.

Best of luck JB, I hope you continue your winning streak.

[woody2goody]

Over his career he's generally done well in every car he's had (apart from that dog of a Benetton in 01 and last year's Honda.

He doesn't make many mistakes as most of the other drivers (I'd even include Alonso in that), and as a result he's reaping the benefits right now.

Even though the Brawn isn't the outright fastest car on pure one lap pace any more, Button (and Rubens) have done a very good job to consistently beat the Red Bulls.

[N. Jones]

Button drives well in a good car (see F1 - 2004 season for example) and drives like Miss Daisy in a bad car (see F1 - 2007 & 2008 seasons for examples).

Rubens on the other hand drives well in a bad car (see F1 - 2008 season for example) and gets his arse handed to him in a good car by his teammate (see almost any season other than one above. I do not know how Rubens did before he joined Ferrari).

[woody2goody]

Button drives well in a good car (see F1 - 2004 season for example) and drives like Miss Daisy in a bad car (see F1 - 2007 & 2008 seasons for examples).

Rubens on the other hand drives well in a bad car (see F1 - 2008 season for example) and gets his arse handed to him in a good car by his teammate (see almost any season other than one above. I do not know how Rubens did before he joined Ferrari).

1993: Jordan - 2 Points, 17th of championship
1994: Jordan - 19 Points (1 Pole), 6th
1995: Jordan - 11 Points, 11th
1996: Jordan - 14 Points, 8th
1997: Stewart - 6 Points (2nd in Monaco), 13th
1998: Stewart - 4 Points, 12th
1999: Stewart - 21 points (1 Pole), 7th

[UltimateDanGTR]

I do think Button is underestimated. Hes not THE Greatest, but hes a top driver. smooth, calm, consistent, fast-those factors combined along with a car as good as the brawn just makes for a dominative line up. the fact that buttonio has dominated his team mate barry proves even more how good a driver he is. Although its reached a point now that brawn will favour button, i dont think they'd sabotage rubenses race for him, unless its at the end of the season and button winning the championship could depend on it, then its understandable.

[jens]

I was impressed with Button in 2004-2006 and praised him quite a lot back then. It was 2008 and his unmotivation that created question-marks as a pure racing driver would always give his all (like Alonso did in 2008 despite poor car). I wouldn't have anything against Button's title. I have thought for some time that in a top car he can be a realistic championsip threat due to his great consistency. Button's main weakness may be that due to his 'smooth' style, he may lack a tenth or tenths in terms of raw pace. But the main thing I fear is that he'll turn into an overrated driver this year, especially considering how car-based driver-rating tend to be. As the year progresses, comparisons with MS and his strategical wins together with Brawn will be inevitable and sure enough some will start saying he is as good as MS and one of the greatest drivers of all times...

Shame that Heidfeld has never got that hype nor the opportunity Button has. :( I have for a long time considered them as very similar drivers by their driving characteristics, but no-one considers Nick as WDC-material...


I certainly think he will be the best champion for F1 for a long time.

What do you mean by the "best champion" part by the way? :p :


Every driver in F1 is capable of winning in a top car, thats why they are in F1.

I'm not sure Piquet or Nakajima would win even in a top car. :p :

[EuroTroll]

I'm not sure Piquet or Nakajima would win even in a top car. :p :

Maybe in 1992, in the top car. ;)

:uhoh:

Bye! :burnout:

:p :

[EuroTroll]

Seriously though, Button has been top notch so far this year. Hasn't put a foot wrong. :up:

Hope he doesn't win the WDC though. :p : Just because certain people around here would get incredibly annoying if he did. :p : Nothing against Button, much against his fans with whom I have far more interaction. :p :

Really hope ole Barry gets a win this year. It would be quite something for a driver to win a GP in his 17th season!

[Hondo]

I have never considered Jenson as anything super special. He has always been competent and I did enjoy watching him shut JV's whining mouth back in the BAR days, especially when JV ("I always honor my contracts...") quit the team before the season was over.

I do think Button is one of those drivers that really needs a car that suits his style and is not one of those rare gems that seem to be able to thrash the utmost out of whatever they are given to drive.

I think Button would be a popular champion.

[EuroTroll]

I have never considered Jenson as anything super special. He has always been competent and I did enjoy watching him shut JV's whining mouth back in the BAR days, especially when JV ("I always honor my contracts...") quit the team before the season was over.

I do think Button is one of those drivers that really needs a car that suits his style and is not one of those rare gems that seem to be able to thrash the utmost out of whatever they are given to drive.

I think Button would be a popular champion.

Agree on all counts.

Button is a pleasent, sociable guy. I'm sure Bernie would be happy. :)

[yodasarmpit]

I just think it's great to see someone show their emotions, when winning, the way Button does.
He's always been a good driver, but it's obvious this car really suits his driving style and he's making the very best of it, good luck to him.

[Garry Walker]

Agree on all counts.

Button is a pleasent, sociable guy. I'm sure Bernie would be happy. :)

Button a pleasant guy? The same guy who dumped his girlfriend of many years when he got to F1, who said F1 wouldnt change him. Who screwed over Williams?

Button is overrated and if you put a driver like Felipe, Kimi, Alonso or Hamilton in that car, they would kick Buttons ass.

[N. Jones]

1993: Jordan - 2 Points, 17th of championship
1994: Jordan - 19 Points (1 Pole), 6th
1995: Jordan - 11 Points, 11th
1996: Jordan - 14 Points, 8th
1997: Stewart - 6 Points (2nd in Monaco), 13th
1998: Stewart - 4 Points, 12th
1999: Stewart - 21 points (1 Pole), 7th

Thank You! I take it from this that he didn't have an cars that were very good? Although I read that he was on the podium in a Stewart a few times, correct?

[Triumph]

It's great seeing things working out for Jenson at last. I hope he wins the championship this year, especially considering that things aren't looking too hopeful for Lewis at the moment!

:-)

[Roamy]

However garry being right on a few points this is the year that a driver is more important in the car than previous years. button is packing the mail. I think alonso would beat him and a couple other would put up a pretty good fight too. But that is speculation also as the game has changed.

[aryan]

Shame that Heidfeld has never got that hype nor the opportunity Button has. :( I have for a long time considered them as very similar drivers by their driving characteristics, but no-one considers Nick as WDC-material...



I do.

I've always thought Heidfeld and Button were very similar as well. Their style is similar. None is a quali specialist, but both are very impressive smooth racers.

Heidfeld is WDC material, I have no doubt about that. Whether he ever gets a chance to show it or not is another question.

BTW, don't want to hijack this thread. Button is doing awesome. I always rated him, but there were doubts in my mind last year. They've all been cleared now and I even rate him more now.

[SGWilko]

The same guy who dumped his girlfriend of many years.

Hey, are you Dear Dierdrie from the Sun?

Come on, spill the beans then. Why did they split? Is it cos he is a nasty guy, or perhaps there are other factors involved.

Have you ever split from your partner. Is it cos you is a nasty guy?

[555-04Q2]

Hey, are you Dear Dierdrie from the Sun?

Come on, spill the beans then. Why did they split? Is it cos he is a nasty guy, or perhaps there are other factors involved.

Have you ever split from your partner. Is it cos you is a nasty guy?

All men are dogs, including myself, I dont care what anyone says. We are made this way, its biological to be a . Anyone who thinks they arent is just fooling themselves.

[ArrowsFA1]

Button is overrated...
Not according to Ross Brawn, and he should know.

[555-04Q2]

Not according to Ross Brawn, and he should know.

I think the jury is still out on Button. Lets wait and see how he performs when the Red Bulls and Ferrari's etc start putting real pressure on him for race wins. That is when his class will show if he has it. Its been a bit too easy for him so far.

[Sonic]

I have to say I'm no Button fan. When he was a young man I found him arrogant and egocentric (this was both before F1 and during the first few seasons) but whilst my opinion (and his personality) have mellowed over the years I've never taken to the guy.

Which makes the fact that I think Buttons performances this season have been INCREDIBLE all the more remarkable. He has won easily when he had a car advantage, fought tooth and nail when the cars around him have been equal (or even had a little edge), and brought home big points when the situation would allow him no better.

Will he be WDC this year? Who knows. But if he keeps driving like this and Brawn give him the machine why not?

[wedge]

He proved himself at Benetton. Pat Symonds was impressed how he turned from F1 playboy to serious worker.

[Ranger]

He proved himself at Benetton.

No way.

Got outraced in every race in 2001 by Fisi, and in most races by Trulli in 2002.

There's a reason why he was booted for 2003 and it isn't because he proved himself.

[Knock-on]

No way.

Got outraced in every race in 2001 by Fisi, and in most races by Trulli in 2002.

There's a reason why he was booted for 2003 and it isn't because he proved himself.

Didn't have a good 2001 but beat Trulli in 2002 even though the team concentrated on the Itallian as Button was off to hand JV a whopping in 2003.

:rolleyes:

[Bagwan]

Didn't have a good 2001 but beat Trulli in 2002 even though the team concentrated on the Itallian as Button was off to hand JV a whopping in 2003.

:rolleyes:

Richards beat JV , not Button .

[Ranger]

Didn't have a good 2001 but beat Trulli in 2002 even though the team concentrated on the Itallian as Button was off to hand JV a whopping in 2003.

:rolleyes:

What?

Trulli finished in front of Button more often than not, that's the way I compare drivers. In 2001 he had nothing going for him, he got smacked.

I didn't say anything about BAR where he was good.

But the simple fact is that he didn't prove anything at Benetton and Renault, that's why they replaced him with Alonso.

[Knock-on]

What?

Trulli finished in front of Button more often than not, that's the way I compare drivers. In 2001 he had nothing going for him, he got smacked.

I didn't say anything about BAR where he was good.

But the simple fact is that he didn't prove anything at Benetton and Renault, that's why they replaced him with Alonso.

What?

You may be a bit mistaken there.

JB scored more points - Fact
On the races where they both finished, it finished even at 3v3 as to who finished ahead of the other.
On all races including retirements, JB finished ahead 8v6

There is nothing in the results that supports your claim and rather disproves it, don't you think?

JB
Ret
4th
4th
5th
12th
7th
Ret
15th
5th
12th
6th
Ret
Ret
Ret
5th
8th
6th

JT
Ret
Ret
Ret
9th
10th
Ret
4th
6th
8th
Ret
Ret
Ret
8th
Ret
4th
5th
Ret

[Dave B]

What?

Trulli finished in front of Button more often than not, that's the way I compare drivers. In 2001 he had nothing going for him, he got smacked.

I didn't say anything about BAR where he was good.

But the simple fact is that he didn't prove anything at Benetton and Renault, that's why they replaced him with Alonso.

It's a tad disingenuous to slate Button based on his results from 8 years ago. He wasn't particularly good after he left Williams, that's true enough. There were suggestions that he'd let his new-found wealth go to his head and was more concerned about his playboy lifestyle.

Now, there may well have been some truth in that, but whether you watch him on track or listen to him in interviews it's plain that like most men he has grown up a lot in those 8 years.

You just cannot go down the avenue of A beat B who went on to beat C who once whooped D, therefore right now A is better than D. It doesn't take into account how drivers improve - or worsen - as their careers progress.

[Rollo]

This week I are be mostly eating:

a) my hat
b) crow
c) humble pie

To be honest, I never expected Button to amount to much. I'd thought that drivers of better talent were/are out there and in better cars. However 2009 seems to have thrown up a whole new set of totally unknowns.

If he wins the WDC then good luck to him. He won't have won it through deviancy or nastiness.

[Ranger]

What?

You may be a bit mistaken there.
No I'm not.


JB scored more points - Fact
Correct.


On the races where they both finished, it finished even at 3v3 as to who finished ahead of the other.

Not true.

Trulli finished ahead 4-2 when both finished.

San Marino - Button 5th, Trulli 9th
Spain - Button 12th, Trulli 10th
Canada - Button 15th, Trulli 6th
Europe - Button 5th, Trulli 8th
Italy - Button 5th, Trulli 4th
USA - Button 8th, Trulli 5th

You just used the statistics you provided to disprove yourself on that one.

And so my point remains (and this is all I am saying in this argument) that Button didn't prove anything substantial at Benetton, only later.


It's a tad disingenuous to slate Button based on his results from 8 years ago. He wasn't particularly good after he left Williams, that's true enough. There were suggestions that he'd let his new-found wealth go to his head and was more concerned about his playboy lifestyle.

Now, there may well have been some truth in that, but whether you watch him on track or listen to him in interviews it's plain that like most men he has grown up a lot in those 8 years.

You just cannot go down the avenue of A beat B who went on to beat C who once whooped D, therefore right now A is better than D. It doesn't take into account how drivers improve - or worsen - as their careers progress.

I only brought up Button at Benetton to disprove wedge's claim that he 'proved himself at Benetton'... when he didn't.

His career only started in 2003, from which point it has been very good. No one denies that.

[N. Jones]

All men are dogs, including myself, I dont care what anyone says. We are made this way, its biological to be a . Anyone who thinks they arent is just fooling themselves.
:laugh: What does that have to do with Jensen Button? :laugh:

[555-04Q2]

:laugh: What does that have to do with Jensen Button? :laugh:

F%$#&d if I know :p :

[N. Jones]

F%$#&d if I know :p :

:rotflmao:

At least we have humor somehwere in this forum! :)

[Knock-on]

Trulli finished ahead 4-2 when both finished.



Sorry, you are correct. I had a 4th and 5th back to front in my mind.

You have to admit though, there was nothing really between them even though Button scored more points.

Dave is correct. He get a bit playboy after his fantastic start at Williams and he didn't really settle till BAR. He was still very young (hardly over the hill now) and matured nicely once he had a bit of a kick up the bum :D

[F1boat]

Yes! BTW, after 2006 when Button scored his first win, I was hoping that he'd be able to fight for the WDC with Kimi and Alonso - I considered him better than Massa and have not been prepared for Lewis the Amazing. However, I am happy that he finally has a good car! All the best for the WDC!

[wedge]

I only brought up Button at Benetton to disprove wedge's claim that he 'proved himself at Benetton'... when he didn't.

His career only started in 2003, from which point it has been very good. No one denies that.

Depends on how one defines 'proving yourself'. I suppose the first steps in turning over a new leaf seems more appropriate.

It was second half of 2001 when Button started to work harder and depending on how one interprets statistics, Trulli hardly destroyed Button if you take into account of race results.

[woody2goody]

Thank You! I take it from this that he didn't have an cars that were very good? Although I read that he was on the podium in a Stewart a few times, correct?

Twice I think, Monaco 1997 and Europe 1999. They were always midfield cars. But as you can see, the two cars where he managed a pole were the pick of that bunch.

[Spoonbender]

Every driver in F1 is capable of winning in a top car, thats why they are in F1. There is no such thing as a bad F1 driver, merely some that are better than others, and some that are purely spectacular. Its what they do with that top car that matters.

I have to dissagree.
Alonso won in a Renault twice last year, yet I didn't see Piquet Jr on the top step, did you?
Why can't you accept that Jenson is just at the top of his game, and improving every race.

[EuroTroll]

Why can't you accept that Jenson is just at the top of his game, and improving every race.

Where's the pleasure in that?? :p :

[BeansBeansBeans]

I have to dissagree.
Alonso won in a Renault twice last year, yet I didn't see Piquet Jr on the top step, did you?
Why can't you accept that Jenson is just at the top of his game, and improving every race.

In fairness, I wouldn't class last years Renault as a race-winning car. Yes, I know it won two races, but...

[Dave B]

In fairness, I wouldn't class last years Renault as a race-winning car. Yes, I know it won two races, but...

One win was largely down to fortune, the other was Alonso dragging it over the line. Technically a race-winner, but I know where you're coming from.

[555-04Q2]

I have to dissagree.
Alonso won in a Renault twice last year, yet I didn't see Piquet Jr on the top step, did you?
Why can't you accept that Jenson is just at the top of his game, and improving every race.

You obviously cant read. I said any driver in a top car. Piquet Jnr is/was not in a top car last season or this season.

And yes, I have stated in several threads of late that Button is driving well, so I have accepted it, mate.

[N. Jones]

Yes, but Piquet was leading the German GP last year (or was he in 2nd) toward the end of the race.

It doesn't matter how he got there, the fact that he had a perfect moment for once in his career put him in a position to win.

The same can be said for Hekki in Hungary.

Lastly, and most importantly for this thread, the same can be said for Jensen in '06.

Someone has to finish first. If the best cars cannot do that is that the fault of a perceived "lesser" driver when they win?

[stevie_gerrard]

Good to see Button near the front again :up: Hopefully this trend will continue throughout the season.

[Tazio]

Good to see Button near the front again :up: Hopefully this trend will continue throughout the season.

Once again I must yield to The Bard:

"Be not afraid of greatness:
some are born great, some achieve greatness, and
some have greatness thrust upon 'em."

Twelfth Night (II, v, 156-159)

[F1boat]

Good to see Button near the front again :up: Hopefully this trend will continue throughout the season.

I hope so as well! Go Jenson for WDC 2009!