parallel worlds.

[Sonic]

Ok so has nothing to with quantum physics, more a sort of what if thread.

An autosport story reminded me of Alesi having a Williams contract in his pocket for 1991 but chose to go to Ferrari. Would we have seen a period of domination from the Williams team that did not involve Mansell (who would have retired in 1990) or Prost (who would stay as a 3 times champ). What would an Alesi/shumi battle in '94,'95,'96 been like?

What other 'what ifs' would you have liked to seen?

[EuroTroll]

Interesting thread!

I think Williams would certainly still have won the '92 championship - I don't think the dominance of that car had much to do with Mansell.. But would it have been Alesi or Patrese? Personally, I couldn't put one ahead of the other...

And would Senna have won the '93 championship if Prost hadn't been the lead driver for the still-dominant Williams? Who knows...

[Sonic]

Another obvious one is Gilles. He made his debut in a Mclaren at Silverstone in '77. What would of happened if Teddy had realised what he had, and signed Villeneuve for '78.

He would have been in weak machinery for a couple of year (but then he had some dogs at Ferrari too.) But come Ron's buyout and return to form he could have been sitting in the plum seat. Would Lauda have ever returned? Would a Prost/Gilles super team kept Senna out of McLaren. How many titles could have gone to Gilles?

[UltimateDanGTR]

what if gilles villeneuve had left the garage 5 seconds later than he did at zolder practice 1982? Would we have been sitting here saying how Villeneuves four championships proved how he was the best racing driver ever? would he had won the world championship in 1982? and again maybe, '83? maybe he would have moved to mclaren in 84 and enjoyed their teams dominance? would he still be alive today, would his son jaqcues have won more championships with the experience, knowledge and help of his father? when would villeneuve had retired? at the end of 1990? which car would he have driven at the end?


so many questions for the great french-canadian. then ofcourse there was senna........


what if he had not have died? what if he had spun off in a safe way, would he have had a great battle for the championship in 94 with schumacher? would schumcher have been world champion in 94 at all? would senna have won more championships thereafter with williams?

I like to think he would have.

what if wolfgang von trips hadnt of crashed at monza in 61? would phil hill have won the world championship that year?

what if jim clark hadnt of crashed at hockenheim in an F2 race and been killed? would he have won many more races and championships?

what if graham hill had never been killed in an aeroplane crash in '75? would his team ever had become successful? would he still be alive today, entertaining us with his wonderful character?

so many what ifs? if only..............

[BDunnell]

What if François Cevert hadn't been able to compete at Watkins Glen in 1973 (he had been injured in Canada, but not seriously enough to prevent him driving in the USA), had not been killed there, and become team leader in 1974? Many believe he would have picked up immediately where Stewart left off.

[BeansBeansBeans]

What if Jenson Button had been left on the scrapheap at the end of 2008?

[philipbain]

What if François Cevert hadn't been able to compete at Watkins Glen in 1973 (he had been injured in Canada, but not seriously enough to prevent him driving in the USA), had not been killed there, and become team leader in 1974? Many believe he would have picked up immediately where Stewart left off.

As it was, Cevert's replacement as team leader for 1974, the young up and coming Jody Shekter, was right in contention until the very end of the season, so Cevert who was very well prepared to take over from where Jackie left off would no doubt have done the business in 1974 and undoubtedly beyond as i'm a great believer in momentum when it comes to teams performing, if Tyrell had kept on winning championships after stewart then I think the picture of Tyrell's performances through the 70s would have looked different.

The same goes for the question that started the thread, Jean Alesi had great momentum when he started in F1, driving a Tyrell which had an excellent chassis but lacked power which was shod with different tyres to the big boys, which meant in certain circumstances he was able to mix it with the greats of the day such as Senna & Prost. It's true that for 1991 Williams had an option on his services and had he gone to Williams he would have found himself at the wheel of the first Adrian Newey designed Williams that was the class of the field, in reality the only things that stopped Williams winning the '91 championship were Senna's brilliance in a McLaren that was still made using a male moulded carbon tub (which by then only they and Ferrari were using, Ferrari using it because of the John Barnard influence) which whilst structurally sound lacked somewhat is aerodynamic finesse and also added weight as they had to skin it with external bodywork, the Williams FW14 having early season reliability issues and a couple of crucial errors including Mansell show boating on the last lap in Canada and killing the car's electronics and the famous pit lane incident in Portugal when a rear wheel wasn't properly attached. If Alesi had been at the wheel of a Williams in '91 I think he would have carried his early career momentum forward rather than his career being stifled by the political mess that Ferrari were back in the early 90s. Its a real shame that he decided to go to Ferrari really, but understandable, they had been really competitive in '90 whereas Williams had yet to get back to the level of competitiveness that they had during the Honda years at that point.

[Jag_Warrior]

I guess my biggest "what if" would be what if Ayrton Senna had gone to CART and driven for Marlboro Team Penske in '93 and/or '94? How would that have affected CART/AOWR, IMS/Tony George, Formula One and the FIA, Ecclestone... and of course, Senna himself?

But no matter... what happens, happens.

The same goes for the question that started the thread, Jean Alesi had great momentum when he started in F1, driving a Tyrell which had an excellent chassis but lacked power which was shod with different tyres to the big boys, which meant in certain circumstances he was able to mix it with the greats of the day such as Senna & Prost. It's true that for 1991 Williams had an option on his services and had he gone to Williams he would have found himself at the wheel of the first Adrian Newey designed Williams that was the class of the field, in reality the only things that stopped Williams winning the '91 championship were Senna's brilliance in a McLaren that was still made using a male moulded carbon tub (which by then only they and Ferrari were using, Ferrari using it because of the John Barnard influence) which whilst structurally sound lacked somewhat is aerodynamic finesse and also added weight as they had to skin it with external bodywork, the Williams FW14 having early season reliability issues and a couple of crucial errors including Mansell show boating on the last lap in Canada and killing the car's electronics and the famous pit lane incident in Portugal when a rear wheel wasn't properly attached. If Alesi had been at the wheel of a Williams in '91 I think he would have carried his early career momentum forward rather than his career being stifled by the political mess that Ferrari were back in the early 90s. Its a real shame that he decided to go to Ferrari really, but understandable, they had been really competitive in '90 whereas Williams had yet to get back to the level of competitiveness that they had during the Honda years at that point.

Perhaps his latin temperament wouldn't have suited the cold way that Williams & Head related to their drivers, but otherwise I fully agree.

Alesi was the sort of mercurial talent who was in the worst place at the worst time in terms of Ferrari circa 91 - 92.

[Firstgear]

What if.........GV still had a Ferrari seat in '97. Quite long in the tooth, but it would make a nice father/son battle.

[EuroTroll]

What if.........GV still had a Ferrari seat in '97. Quite long in the tooth, but it would make a nice father/son battle.

Err... at 47 years old?? :erm:

There a reason we don't see father/son battles in sports. It's the age difference! :p :

[Sonic]

GV vs JV didn't enter my mind. But GV vs Senna. Now thatb would have been one hell of a battle. GV has become a 3 times champ and Prost has left McLaren to join Ferrari leaving a seat for Senna who spent the '88 season in an uncompetitive Williams Judd following his back to back titles with the team in '86 and '87. Who would have come out on top in that one?

[Firstgear]

That's why I said he'd be a little (ok, quite) long in the tooth. But this is afterall a "what if" thread.

[D-Type]

Go a bit earlier.
What if Tony Brooks had carried on for another season at BRM. He would have been just that tiny bit faster than Graham Hill. But would they have spoiled it for each other and let Jim Clark through to a first championship?

Now, Alesi in a Williams whilst he was still hungry - that would have been something.

[Valve Bounce]

Ok so has nothing to with quantum physics, more a sort of what if thread.

An autosport story reminded me of Alesi having a Williams contract in his pocket for 1991 but chose to go to Ferrari. Would we have seen a period of domination from the Williams team that did not involve Mansell (who would have retired in 1990) or Prost (who would stay as a 3 times champ). What would an Alesi/shumi battle in '94,'95,'96 been like?

?

NO!!

Next hypothesis, please!!

[patnicholls]

The old 'if' question...

I'd like to have seen how Alex Zanardi would have done with some luck in his time in F1. Apparently, he was a sniff away from taking the Jordan seat at Spa in 1991 that went to one M. Schumacher (Zanardi's lower formula career was exemplary). And so the story goes, on his return from much success in America in 1999 to Williams he was given a rookie senior engineer hence he was given an absolute thrashing by Ralf.

Another 'what if' has to be Marc Hynes - won the 1999 Brit F3 title with Luciano Burti in second and Jenson Button in third. The next year Button was in the Williams and Luciano Burti was testing for Jaguar - Hynes never even got a competitive F3000 seat and that was that, it seems (he now races Porsche Supercup and is a driver coach).

There's a few others I'd have like to have seen in an F1 car but never did: Gil de Ferran (twice CART [now IndyCar...ish] champion over in the States), Gonzalo Rodriguez (who was a challenger of Montoya and Heidfeld in F3000 in 1998/99 with several race wins but lost his life in America late in 1999 racing in CART) would be the first names that spring to mind on that front.

I suppose these examples show that for the last few years GP2's been getting it right so that the guys doing well have got up to F1 and got plum seats (Nico, Lewis and Timo etc - although Piquet jnr did very well in 2006 against Lewis but has mostly underwhelmed in F1, obviously)

[LeonBrooke]

Here's a topical one:

What if Max Mosely and Bernie Ecclestone had never entered F1?

Now... I reckon the sport would be much worse off. Before them the teams had no power whatsoever, they were purely at the mercy of the race promotors. Sure, people say that now Bernie and Max have the teams at their mercy but once they fought for the teams. Safety wouldn't be as good as it is, so many more drivers would have been badly injured or killed. The sport would have a much smaller profile.

The sport would probably be a lot less professional, with smaller teams, fewer employees, more teams, fewer factories. We'd possibly be seeing Robert, Lewis, Felipe and Sebastian duelling in F1 as well as in sports cars, Indycar, etc., like they used to. Now that would be pretty cool.

[jens]

Uhh, what if, what if - it demands a lot of analyzing, what could have exactly happened in one or another case. :p :

But anyway - I'm thinking that without tragedies F1 could have been really fantastic at the end of the 80's - G. Villeneuve, Pironi, de Angelis and Bellof all fighting against the likes of Senna, Prost, Mansell, etc. Shame we really never saw that...

[D-Type]

Uhh, what if, what if - it demands a lot of analyzing, what could have exactly happened in one or another case. :p :

But anyway - I'm thinking that without tragedies F1 could have been really fantastic at the end of the 80's - G. Villeneuve, Pironi, de Angelis and Bellof all fighting against the likes of Senna, Prost, Mansell, etc. Shame we really never saw that...In the words of Mario Andretti "Racing is also this"

[woody2goody]

This is a brilliant thread. I could go on forever about just one scenario given the time.

One of my favourites is what if Jacques Villeneuve had remained at Williams for '99?

He would have had a decent car that year. Would he have beaten Ralf Schumacher? In 2000 with two very good drivers no doubt they would have pushed each other and finished on the podium regularly.

Even though JPM was very good at Williams in 01, JV would have probably won more races that year. They wouldn't have been able to do anything about Ferrari in '02, but in 03 I think JV would have won the title. Then, BMW wouldn't have split from Williams, and JV and Ralf would have won lots more races. They both may have remained in F1 today.

Would Montoya have replaced Ralf and not Jenson Button?

Williams probably would not have signed Jenson in 2000. Then you would probably have had Button going to Prost either in 2000 or 01. The excitement over Button probably would have helped Prost get more sponsorship, not to mention Jenson is much better than Mazzacane. I doubt they would have gone bust in 02 but you never know. Maybe Alesi wouldn't have left, or even retired?

And in all this, where would Montoya, Alonso, BAR, Mazzacane, Zonta, Zanardi and others be today?

[jens]

My what if is that what if Trulli had continued at Renault in 2005-2006. Wouldn't have expected a title contention, but a few wins and P3 in both seasons in WDC standings could have been on the cards if his car would have been properly reliable too (unlike Fisi's in 2005).

And another one is that how would Barrichello's career have panned out if Ferrari had chosen another driver alongside Mr Michael for 2000?!
Or what if Heidfeld had joined McLaren for 2002?
Or what if Adrian Newey had joined Jaguar in 2001? :)
What if Jordan had become Honda's 'factory team' from 2003 onwards?
What if Mercedes would have continued its partnership with Sauber from 1995 onwards instead of McLaren? :p :

[EuroTroll]

And another one is that how would Barrichello's career have panned out if Ferrari had chosen another driver alongside Mr Michael for 2000?!

As another "what if" - what if Rubens had gone to Ferrari already in 1996, instead of Irvine? If I recall correctly, he was made an offer, but chose to stay with Jordan, because Eddie Jordan managed to convince him that the '96 Jordan was gonna be grrrrreat! :)

[AndyL]

As another "what if" - what if Rubens had gone to Ferrari already in 1996, instead of Irvine? If I recall correctly, he was made an offer, but chose to stay with Jordan, because Eddie Jordan managed to convince him that the '96 Jordan was gonna be grrrrreat! :)

Martin Brundle mentioned that car on the BBC F1 forum after the race yesterday - he turned to Eddie Jordan and said something like, "that car you gave me in 96 was a complete dog!" :D

[jens]

As another "what if" - what if Rubens had gone to Ferrari already in 1996, instead of Irvine? If I recall correctly, he was made an offer, but chose to stay with Jordan, because Eddie Jordan managed to convince him that the '96 Jordan was gonna be grrrrreat! :)

Considering that Rubens scored more points than Eddie in 1996 as well, then maybe the team-choice for that particular season wasn't too wrong. :p :

But another interesting question is that why did Barrichello choose Stewart for 1997? Did he really believe a team starting from zero would become a worldbeater straightaway? What was the background and which were his other options?

[52Paddy]

What if Lola had not been rushed by MasterCard (or other major sponsors) to produce their car for the 1997 season, instead of the initially planned 1998 season. One year makes a big difference when it comes to development. And a team with Lola's experience in motor racing could surely have come up with something competitive given the appropriate time.

A classic is: what if Michael hadn't broken his legs at Silverstone in 1999. Would he have won the championship? Its not out of the question that he may well have beaten Mika that year. And Irvine could have potentially been the perfect number 2 driver to have in Michael's route towards the championship. On the other hand, would Irvine have been too hungry for the title himself to co-operate as a number 2?

I love this stuff. :)

What if I wasn't dashingly handsome?

Sadly, we'll never know.

[emporer_k]

What if Verstappen had not spun out of the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, whilst ahead of Fisichella and gone on to win in a Minardi ?

[woody2goody]

What if Verstappen had not spun out of the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, whilst ahead of Fisichella and gone on to win in a Minardi ?

I never realised that he was ahead of Fisi. I knew Ralph Firman and Justin Wilson were when they went off.