Kimi

[Koz]

Why is he so badly rated by everyone here?

Alost every thread "rating" drivers here get's Kimi on the same leves as guys like Trulli and Barrichello, if not Kovalainen; very rarely someone puts him on the same level as Massa, Alonso or Hamilton?

I remember last year everyone was saying Massa was going to be very bad without TC, and the likes of Kimi and Lewis will excell. But in a year Kimi has gone down in everyone's books.

Admitedly, the only reason he was world champion was because the incompetence of McLaren, and the glory-whoring stupidity of Hamilton in Shanghai. (And some crazy stroke of fortune in Brazil)

Is it because he is/seems so laid back?

[CaptainRaiden]

Probably because this place doesn't have a lot of Kimi fans, or maybe Ferrari fans want another Schumacher and judge Kimi with the same yardstick, which is wrong since no two people are the same. Gee guys, calm down, Schumacher retired 3 years ago and the "glory years" are over. At least be happy that you no longer have to be branded "cheater fans" anymore. :p

In my humble opinion, Kimi is still the fastest driver out there. Every sport has a temperamental champion. Look at Ronnie O'Sullivan in snooker. Probably people go down too harsh on Kimi for not being a perfectionist, but hey, that's how he is. And in 2007, he thoroughly deserved the championship. He didn't cry like a baby (ala Alonso and Hamilton) and just went about his business and racked up the majority, 6 wins, albeit with some inconsistencies because of mechanical failures and brain farts.

Hoping he can get some performance out of the newly updated Ferrari in Spain. Let's see...

[pino]

Why is he so badly rated by everyone here?

... in a year Kimi has gone down in everyone's books.



Not in my book ;)


I’m trying to figure out who's the “best” driver out there at the moment, here's my list :

Alonso
Vettel
Kimi
Hamilton
Massa
Button
Trulli
Webber
Kubica
Glock
Buemi
Rosberg
Heidfeld
Sutil
Kovalainen
Fisichella
Barrichello
Bourdais
Piquet
Nakajima

[DexDexter]

Why is he so badly rated by everyone here?

Alost every thread "rating" drivers here get's Kimi on the same leves as guys like Trulli and Barrichello, if not Kovalainen; very rarely someone puts him on the same level as Massa, Alonso or Hamilton?

I remember last year everyone was saying Massa was going to be very bad without TC, and the likes of Kimi and Lewis will excell. But in a year Kimi has gone down in everyone's books.

Admitedly, the only reason he was world champion was because the incompetence of McLaren, and the glory-whoring stupidity of Hamilton in Shanghai. (And some crazy stroke of fortune in Brazil)

Is it because he is/seems so laid back?

I think there are Kimi fans here.... anyway to answer your question,
Kimi had a bad season last year, that's probably the main reason. Another reason could be that people don't understand him, they judge his character based on their own cultural habits, which are quite different from Kimi's. What they see as lack of enthusiasm is normal behaviour in Finland. For example there is really no "small talk" in Finnish, people usually say things as they are and if there is nothing worthwhile to say, then silence is accepted. Obviously it varies between individuals.

[pettersolberg29]

Not in my book ;)

Yeah but anyone who thins Buemi is better than Heidfeld, Rosberg and Barrichelo doesn't deserve an opinion!

[555-04Q2]

Probably because this place doesn't have a lot of Kimi fans, or maybe Ferrari fans want another Schumacher and judge Kimi with the same yardstick, which is wrong since no two people are the same. Gee guys, calm down, Schumacher retired 3 years ago and the "glory years" are over. At least be happy that you no longer have to be branded "cheater fans" anymore. :p

In my humble opinion, Kimi is still the fastest driver out there. Every sport has a temperamental champion. Look at Ronnie O'Sullivan in snooker. Probably people go down too harsh on Kimi for not being a perfectionist, but hey, that's how he is. And in 2007, he thoroughly deserved the championship. He didn't cry like a baby (ala Alonso and Hamilton) and just went about his business and racked up the majority, 6 wins, albeit with some inconsistencies because of mechanical failures and brain farts.

Hoping he can get some performance out of the newly updated Ferrari in Spain. Let's see...

I dont buy it. Kimi is supposed to be the fastest thing out there, yet he was run closely in 2007 by Massa right up until the last few races. Last year, Massa cleaned him up like a bachelor's second hand blow up doll after a weekend session.

Ferrari (and more specifically their boss Luca) said last year that they are waiting for the real Kimi to come out and play. WTF :?:

Kimi has been in top teams for a long time now and doesnt have much to show for it. A couple of wins and a lucky WDC thanks to a Rookie with a "here's and early Christmas present card".

The word - Kimi - should be entered into the Oxford Dictionary with the following explanation: over-inflated reputation that continues to leave spectators feeling...shortchanged.

[veeten]

Remember how he came in... from F3 with high expectations of being the next Mika Hakkinen.

When hype exceeds results actually attained, it's understandable that many are left somewhat unsatisfied, but then again...

[EuroTroll]

Remember how he came in... from F3 with high expectations of being the next Mika Hakkinen.

When hype exceeds results actually attained, it's understandable that many are left somewhat unsatisfied, but then again...

I don't agree with that. Firstly, he came straight from Formula Renault, on a provisional super-licence, remember? ;)

And then immediately matched Heidfeld at Sauber, and then Coulthard at McLaren. He was magical at McLaren, I think. And if the car hadn't broken down so often...

But nowadays, he just seems disinterested to me. :s Surely the huge talent is still there, but is the will to win?

[Shifter]

A very fast and fragile McLaren may have fostered an image of Kimi being a bit better than he really is. Fact is, he excels on some circuits but not others. Overall though, he's still a great driver in my book and someone who would be at the top of my list of drivers if I was filling a vacant seat.

Pino - your list is close to mine when future potential is not considered. Just move Trulli below Kubica, Barrichello up past Kovalainen, and Buemi below Heidfeld.

[DexDexter]

Kimi has been in top teams for a long time now and doesnt have much to show for it. A couple of wins and a lucky WDC thanks to a Rookie with a "here's and early Christmas present card".



"A couple of wins" :)

Wins: 17
Podiums: 57
Pole positions: 16

Second in the World Championship in 2003 (lost to Schumi by 2points) and 2005, WDC 2007.

Yes he was in a way lucky in 2007, but very unlucky in 2005 when he won as many races as Alonso but had reliability problems...luck has a habit of evening out.

[555-04Q2]

"A couple of wins" :)

Wins: 17
Podiums: 57
Pole positions: 16

Second in the World Championship in 2003 (lost to Schumi by 2points) and 2005, WDC 2007.

Yes he was in a way lucky in 2007, but very unlucky in 2005 when he won as many races as Alonso but had reliability problems...luck has a habit of evening out.

His wins to races entered ratio is only 11.8% (17 wins/144 races) and lags way behind the best we have seen in F1 with over 25 and even 30% ratio's.

Fangio = 49.1%
Schumi = 36.4%
Stewart = 27%
Prost = 25.5%
Senna = 25.3%

The list goes on and on and on...

As I said in my earlier post, he has been in F1 in top teams for quite a while now and not achieved equal results to his hyped up reputation. Put plainly, he is overated.

[EuroTroll]

Fangio = 49.1%
Schumi = 36.4%
Stewart = 27%
Prost = 25.5%
Senna = 25.3%

In between there, there's also Clark with 34.7%.

[DexDexter]

His wins to races entered ratio is only 11.8% (17 wins/144 races) and lags way behind the best we have seen in F1 with over 25 and even 30% ratio's.

Fangio = 49.1%
Schumi = 36.4%
Stewart = 27%
Prost = 25.5%
Senna = 25.3%

The list goes on and on and on...

As I said in my earlier post, he has been in F1 in top teams for quite a while now and not achieved equal results to his hyped up reputation. Put plainly, he is overated.

You seem to forget that Mclaren has not always been competitive. He's had a good car in 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2008. Out of those years, only 2008 he wasn't close to winning the championship. For example in 2003 when he lost the championship by 2 points he retired from the lead of the European gp with an engine failure which ultimately cost him the championship. Obviously world is full of those IFs but with a little luck you would be putting down a three-time WDC.

[Sonic]

IMO Kimi is one of the most naturally gifted drivers I have ever had the pleasure to watch. His major flaw as we all know is he is one lazy son of a female dog - and that has to have a detrimental effect on his overall speed.

He certainly is in the wrong era - 1970's F1 would have suited him to the ground, turn up, strap in, rag it, have a fag (or ice cream).

Can I see him win another title? Yes. But perhaps not in a Ferrari.

[aryan]

Well, I still rate him. In fact, I still think he is the most talented natural driver out there. The fastest in F1.

He's been second in WDC twice, and also champion once. Not bad in my book.

But the reason he's being rated down, is because most people here know that Kimi can achieve more. Most people know that if Kimi wanted, he could have had more WDCs up his belt. If he wanted, he could be the best there is out there.

Only it seems like he is more interested in other things in life than F1. Well, can't blame him really.

As a tennis fan, Kimi strikes me a lot like the Williams sisters in Women's tennis. They can always be the No. 1 out there, if only they want to.

[Dzeidzei]

Why is he so badly rated by everyone here?


Who cares about that. As someone whos followed his career from karting to England to F1, I know for a fact that Kimi doesnt care at all about how people feel about him. Its not something that can be changed. There are people here who for some reason just hate Kimi, but who cares?

But you do hear other drivers praise him all the time. Maybe they know something the amateurs here dont?

[BDunnell]

I don't agree with that. Firstly, he came straight from Formula Renault, on a provisional super-licence, remember? ;)

And his performance immediately thereafter, at a time when some observers felt he shouldn't even have been allowed into F1, was really something. Alas, it's almost completely forgotten nowadays.

[BDunnell]

IMO Kimi is one of the most naturally gifted drivers I have ever had the pleasure to watch. His major flaw as we all know is he is one lazy son of a female dog - and that has to have a detrimental effect on his overall speed.

He certainly is in the wrong era - 1970's F1 would have suited him to the ground, turn up, strap in, rag it, have a fag (or ice cream).

I'm not sure about that, because I'm not certain that F1 champions of the 1970s, or any era, could ever be described as lazy. It could however be said that his personality would have been better suited to a time when less importance was given to the role of an F1 driver as a PR tool.

[Sonic]

When I said '70s I had just one driver I mind. James Hunt. I think there are some similarities.

[BDunnell]

When I said '70s I had just one driver I mind. James Hunt. I think there are some similarities.

Whereas I was thinking of Stewart, Andretti and Lauda.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Kimi's stock has fallen because of his failure to dominate Massa at Ferrari. Now whether that's down to people under-estimating Massa or not is hard to say, but perception is everything in F1.

[Koz]

I mean even in 2007, just as he won the WDC (and before that) people started saying that Kimi's out of Ferrari in 2009 or 2010, getting replaced by Alonso.

I mean surely that wouldn't motivate him (if it were true). And who were the cars built around, Massa has been around in Ferrari alot longer than Kimi. And I guess he was Schumi's replacement and protoge. So wouldn't the cars in theory be more suited to him than Kimi.

Maybe ferrari (and Kimi's) problems are that they, in my opinion have two of the best drivers in F1 and have had to compromise the car to suit both drivers. Rather building the car totally on one of them, and having a #2 driver to support either Kimi or Massa?

[555-04Q2]

You seem to forget that Mclaren has not always been competitive. He's had a good car in 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2008. Out of those years, only 2008 he wasn't close to winning the championship. For example in 2003 when he lost the championship by 2 points he retired from the lead of the European gp with an engine failure which ultimately cost him the championship. Obviously world is full of those IFs but with a little luck you would be putting down a three-time WDC.

When it comes to Kimi there is always an excuse as to why he hasnt done better. It's getting rather old now.

Many drivers have been close to winning WDC etc when reliability lets them down. A recent example is the 2006 season with MS vs Alonso, at Suzuka 2006 when MS's engine went and Alonso was effectively handed the title. MS could be an 8 X WDC. many other drivers have suffered the same fate, thats racing for you.

[555-04Q2]

In between there, there's also Clark with 34.7%.

I know, I just pulled out a few from memory, didnt have the time to pull them all out :)

[DexDexter]

When it comes to Kimi there is always an excuse as to why he hasnt done better. It's getting rather old now.

Many drivers have been close to winning WDC etc when reliability lets them down. A recent example is the 2006 season with MS vs Alonso, at Suzuka 2006 when MS's engine went and Alonso was effectively handed the title. MS could be an 8 X WDC. many other drivers have suffered the same fate, thats racing for you.

I think there is no excuse that would satisfy you, so let's happily disagree :)

[555-04Q2]

I think there is no excuse that would satisfy you, so let's happily disagree :)

Thats correct. I dont like excuses, only results ;)

[Knock-on]

IMO Kimi is one of the most naturally gifted drivers I have ever had the pleasure to watch. His major flaw as we all know is he is one lazy son of a female dog - and that has to have a detrimental effect on his overall speed.

He certainly is in the wrong era - 1970's F1 would have suited him to the ground, turn up, strap in, rag it, have a fag (or ice cream).

Can I see him win another title? Yes. But perhaps not in a Ferrari.

I'm quite a fan of Kimi and like the bloke but he doesn't apply himself.

I think the very things that he didn't like at McLaren are the very things that pushed him there. He needs a Ron up his backside to get the best out of him IMHO.

Raw natural talent, driver ability and F1 experience he has but he is no Schumacher. He is never going to meld a team around him, inspire a generation or be able to drive car development from his feedback.

Love him for what he is but don't be dissapointed by what you wish he was but isn't because you will probably find that at the time you think he should do something, he's off having a cr4p :laugh:

[DexDexter]

I'm quite a fan of Kimi and like the bloke but he doesn't apply himself.

I think the very things that he didn't like at McLaren are the very things that pushed him there. He needs a Ron up his backside to get the best out of him IMHO.

Raw natural talent, driver ability and F1 experience he has but he is no Schumacher. He is never going to meld a team around him, inspire a generation or be able to drive car development from his feedback.

Love him for what he is but don't be dissapointed by what you wish he was but isn't because you will probably find that at the time you think he should do something, he's off having a cr4p :laugh:

Melding a team around you also means that the other driver must be pushed out or at least given secondary treatment, see Barrichello at Ferrari or Piquet at Renault. From Massa's point of view Kimi is an excellent teammate since despite being a world champion he has never demanded any kind of special treatment and never ever complains or demands the team to work just for him. That may hurt him, though.

[wedge]

IMO Kimi is one of the most naturally gifted drivers I have ever had the pleasure to watch. His major flaw as we all know is he is one lazy son of a female dog - and that has to have a detrimental effect on his overall speed.

He certainly is in the wrong era - 1970's F1 would have suited him to the ground, turn up, strap in, rag it, have a fag (or ice cream).

Can I see him win another title? Yes. But perhaps not in a Ferrari.

Chris Dyer mentioned the difference between Kimi and Schumi is that Schumi was far more analytical, technically minded.

I think lazy is the wrong word because Kimi is his own man. Because of his aloofness I think he has no interest in gaining superiority. He's similar to Hunt, Clark and Peterson - in their element in the drivers seat, everything else is BS.

[Sonic]

Chris Dyer mentioned the difference between Kimi and Schumi is that Schumi was far more analytical, technically minded.

I think lazy is the wrong word because Kimi is his own man. Because of his aloofness I think he has no interest in gaining superiority. He's similar to Hunt, Clark and Peterson - in their element in the drivers seat, everything else is BS.

Hit the nail on the head. But sadly for Kimi that's exactly what he needs to be if he wants to be the best.

I have zero doubt that if you bolted Kimi and Shumi into identical cars the laps times would be nigh on identical. But if you then told them they could change what they wanted in terms of setup, team organisation etc. then we would see Kimi start to fall behind.

Kimi certainly has more skill at setting a car up than say Hunt (who famously claimed he was trying harder if his engineer made a setup change that worked) but IMO he gets so far ad then kind of says 'that'll do' and goes home. Whereas Massa seems to have learnt a lot from Michael and stays longer in debriefs to maximise his chances.

[DexDexter]

Hit the nail on the head. But sadly for Kimi that's exactly what he needs to be if he wants to be the best.

I have zero doubt that if you bolted Kimi and Shumi into identical cars the laps times would be nigh on identical. But if you then told them they could change what they wanted in terms of setup, team organisation etc. then we would see Kimi start to fall behind.

Kimi certainly has more skill at setting a car up than say Hunt (who famously claimed he was trying harder if his engineer made a setup change that worked) but IMO he gets so far ad then kind of says 'that'll do' and goes home. Whereas Massa seems to have learnt a lot from Michael and stays longer in debriefs to maximise his chances.

You may have a point there but one must remember that there is no single right way of doing things. Kimi has already been quite succesful with his style, it's probably the best way for him if not his team. I would compare Kimi to Mika Häkkinen who was in a way quite similar, not known for his car developing skills or leadership but still won two world championship. Anybody who manages to win WDC is a great driver IMO.

[Sonic]

Anybody who manages to win WDC is a great driver IMO.

You do realise the can of woop a$$ you have just opened up on yourself :p

As it goes I agree with you on that. People knock drivers like Hill, J Villeneuve etc. But as WDC's they must have been pretty good (perhaps not great though).

Back to Kimi. I agree with the rest of your post, and to be honest I don't want Kimi to change. I like his no s**t style, but it certainly doesn't make the most of his tallent.

[EuroTroll]

You do realise the can of woop a$$ you have just opened up on yourself :p

Now, Rosberg, for example... ;)

You get the idea. I don't wanna waste words. :p :

[DexDexter]

Now, Rosberg, for example... ;)

You get the idea. I don't wanna waste words. :p :

Yep, Keke wasn't too bad, at Monaco 83 he started on slicks on a damp track, everybody else was on wets, and totally dominated the race....Not the greatest driver in the world but still a very good one.

[EuroTroll]

Yep, Keke wasn't too bad, at Monaco 83 he started on slicks on a damp track, everybody else was on wets, and totally dominated the race....Not the greatest driver in the world but still a very good one.

Ah, so what you mean to say is that there was a race in his career where he made a better tyre choice than anyone else? Yeah, that's an achievement alright! :p :

----

Edit: Wow, trolling is fun! :D No wonder so many people do it! :D

[BeansBeansBeans]

All WDCs must be good, but some are weaker than others, and some are weaker than many non-WDCs.

Ultimately, F1 is a team game, and it's always the best team / driver combo that wins out, rather than just the best driver.

Ultimately, F1 is a team game, and it's always the best team / driver combo that wins out, rather than just the best driver.

Except in the case of Rosberg, who was just lucky that both Ferrari drivers were involved in massive accidents, one tragically fatal and the other career ending.

[DexDexter]

Except in the case of Rosberg, who was just lucky that both Ferrari drivers were involved in massive accidents, one tragically fatal and the other career ending.

Yes Rosberg was lucky but seriously he was a good driver, maybe not a great one. Was Andretti good in 1978 with a dominating ground effect Lotus, etc etc... The history is full of those stories, but in the end a winner is a winner. Keke is the 1982 World Champion, end of story.

[EuroTroll]

Keke is the 1982 World Champion, end of story.

No-no. No, no, no. ;) That's just the beginning of the story! ;) :D

As Sonic said, you really shouldn't have written...


Anybody who manages to win WDC is a great driver IMO.

'Cause there really are many, many cans of whoop-ass out there, regarding that. :D

[DexDexter]

No-no. No, no, no. ;) That's just the beginning of the story! ;) :D

As Sonic said, you really shouldn't have written...



'Cause there really are many, many cans of whoop-ass out there, regarding that. :D

I don't care, it's not so serious for some of us :)

[F1boat]

Personally I still rate Kimi in Top 3, only behind Fred who I believe is very special. IMO he is extremely talented, very cool and on his day unbeatable. I personally believe that he is better than Massa. His race in Suzuka in 2005 is one of the greatest things I have ever seen in motorsports and that year I was supporting Alonso! I wish him well and I hope that soon the Ferrari will be better. I will enjoy immensely battle between Jenson and Kimi!

[jens]

Looking at polls I think Kimi has been rated as the championship favourite since around 2004?! So sure enough he can't be underrated, if anything, he keeps delivering under people's expectations. As we remember, before this year he again got clearly the biggest number of votes for winning WDC - really puzzling, couldn't understand, what was this all based on.

Admittedly he performed better at McLaren, but one main explanation for this might be that arguably McLaren relies more on engineers and telemetry in setup finding/testing than Ferrari does.

In a recent thread I rated Kimi in second tier, because he doesn't seem to be as complete as the current or potential future top stars/maybe legends (FA/LH/SV). He doesn't seem as complete, adaptable or consistent as them. Kimi is of course among the fastest drivers, but that's his main strength. The "absolutely fastest driver" talks are continually quite puzzling as they lack of evidence. I guess it derives from people's imagination that due to his weakness in technical side he makes these disadvantages up with "superior speed" - against anyone. As for lazyness - can't really comment, haven't enough evidence by myself.

[Garry Walker]

I guess it derives from people's imagination that due to his weakness in technical side he makes these disadvantages up with "superior speed" - against anyone.

What technical weakness?

[jens]

What technical weakness?

As you saw, in that sentence I was writing about opinions, not factual material. ;)

[markabilly]

What technical weakness?
Well, as demonstrated in todays Qing, he relies on his team too much to tell him when to go out on the track.....coin flips would work better

[jens]

I know the usual excuses like "the team is to blame for all strategical cock-ups" as they often indeed are. But... if Alonso was at Ferrari, I simply just can't believe they would be making so many baseless decisions.

[DexDexter]

I know the usual excuses like "the team is to blame for all strategical cock-ups" as they often indeed are. But... if Alonso was at Ferrari, I simply just can't believe they would be making so many baseless decisions.

If Alonso was at Ferrari, he would destroy the team if they didn't hire a Piquet as the second driver. Still remember Mclaren in 2007?

[jens]

If Alonso was at Ferrari, he would destroy the team if they didn't hire a Piquet as the second driver. Still remember Mclaren in 2007?

I think the problems in 2007 had more to do with the relationship with McLaren/Dennis than Hamilton. In 2004 Alonso really didn't have a problem with Trulli, it was Jarno's and Flavio's relationship that went bust. I've always thought the "hate" or "dislike" between Hamilton and Alonso has been overexaggerated by media.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/05/08/alonso-missing-rivalry-with-hamilton/

[Dave B]

Well, as demonstrated in todays Qing, he relies on his team too much to tell him when to go out on the track.....coin flips would work better
I've said as much before: can you honestly imagine a Schumacher sitting back and watching his qualifying go tits-up just because the team thought he was safe? It wouldn't happen. Kimi, and to an extent Massa, need to get more involved in these decisions.

[F1boat]

A horrible mistake, but to compare poor Kimi to MS is pointless. Kimi is Kimi, a talented driver, who is great on track and not so great when it comes to be a leader. MS was exceptional. It will be hard to get another driver like him, so bashing Kimi for the fact that he is not like the most successful driver in the history of the sport is pointless. If we compare him to Berger and Alesi, or even Irvine, he is spectacular.

It will be hard to get another driver like him, so bashing Kimi for the fact that he is not like the most successful driver in the history of the sport is pointless. If we compare him to Berger and Alesi, or even Irvine, he is spectacular.

Except he isn't on Berger/Alesi/Irvine wages...he's on Schumi levels of pay.

The lazy txxt isn't worth a penny of it.

[christophulus]

Except he isn't on Berger/Alesi/Irvine wages...he's on Schumi levels of pay.

The lazy txxt isn't worth a penny of it.

This is the issue I have with him, he gets paid an astronomical amount but doesn't seem to be leading the team. Amateur mistake once again today in qualifying, and his (apparent) apathetic nature must really be damaging morale in Ferrari.

[seamusoldfield]

Agree with Tamburello and Christophulus above. We know the guy is fast, but it seems to be only when he chooses. He seems completely unmotivated, uninterested and apathetic. There are plenty of young, hungry hot-shoes out there who need a shot and would drive for a fraction of his pay. Kimi, if you're not into it anymore, move over and give someone else the keys.

And what was with his statement in qualifying? He said he wasn't "keen" on going out for another lap. If I were team boss, I'd ask Kimi if he was "keen" on seeing out the rest of contract.

[F1boat]

To me this is not serious. I would not replace a WDC with a "young hungry hot-shoe", who could prove himself to be like Piquet, only because the WDC trusted his engineer, like Massa did. Although a salary cut might be necessary. But if you think that Kimi is the problem of the team... I tell you that, even with Alonso and Vettel with this strategists and this attitude, "if we are not winning F1 is circus and FIA is bad""... the team will get the same pathetic results.

[PSfan]

How long before teams start gambling on waiting till the last possible moment before making a single qualifying lap in each session?

I'm not so much bothered that Ferrari took a gamble that Kimi's time would hold up to get him to the next round. But that they didn't consider putting another lap in near the end of the session on either scuffs or hard tires. Surely after setting fastest laps in 3rd practice they should be confident enough with car and driver to get into the 2nd round on the harder tires?

[DexDexter]

Agree with Tamburello and Christophulus above. We know the guy is fast, but it seems to be only when he chooses. He seems completely unmotivated, uninterested and apathetic. There are plenty of young, hungry hot-shoes out there who need a shot and would drive for a fraction of his pay. Kimi, if you're not into it anymore, move over and give someone else the keys.

And what was with his statement in qualifying? He said he wasn't "keen" on going out for another lap. If I were team boss, I'd ask Kimi if he was "keen" on seeing out the rest of contract.

I have followed Kimi's career since he was in karting and he's always been unmotivated, uninterested and apathetic from your cultural perspective. Perhaps Kimi should take acting lessons in order to learn to move his hands about like an Italian :) . The passion would be there then!

[F1boat]

I have followed Kimi's career since he was in karting and he's always been unmotivated, uninterested and apathetic from your cultural perspective. Perhaps Kimi should take acting lessons in order to learn to move his hands about like an Italian :) . The passion would be there then!

ROFL

[Dave B]

How long before teams start gambling on waiting till the last possible moment before making a single qualifying lap in each session?

Vettel has done this a few times, saving valuable tyres for the race, but his laps tended to be earlier in the sessions. By leaving your only run so late you risk everything if there's a yellow flag or any delay. Better to get a "banker" in, especially to get you through to Q3.

[Garry Walker]

I know the usual excuses like "the team is to blame for all strategical cock-ups" as they often indeed are. But... if Alonso was at Ferrari, I simply just can't believe they would be making so many baseless decisions.

That is bull. Ferrari took a risk, it did not work out. Happens.
This alonso magic is so tiring, what exactly has he done with the Renault this year? Nothing whatsoever.
Where are his 6 tenths? nowhere
The super developer has done nothing, yet the praise keeps coming no matter what he does.


Except he isn't on Berger/Alesi/Irvine wages...he's on Schumi levels of pay.

The lazy txxt isn't worth a penny of it.

And again we have an internet know-it-all with no real knowledge claiming things he has no idea about.



And what was with his statement in qualifying? He said he wasn't "keen" on going out for another lap. If I were team boss, I'd ask Kimi if he was "keen" on seeing out the rest of contract.
He wasnt keen on going out again because he wanted to save new tyres for Q3.
The level of idiocy of some people on this forum is amazing.
Do you understand F1 at all?


I have followed Kimi's career since he was in karting and he's always been unmotivated, uninterested and apathetic from your cultural perspective. Perhaps Kimi should take acting lessons in order to learn to move his hands about like an Italian :) . The passion would be there then!

Indeed. It appears to the dumber F1 followers that if you dont consistantly cry, get all emotional and act like a clown, you clearly are not interested and you are unmotivated. Because that is just impossible that some people are shy and introvert by nature.

[Dave B]

He wasnt keen on going out again because he wanted to save new tyres for Q3.
The level of idiocy of some people on this forum is amazing.
Do you understand F1 at all?
I understand enough to know that you can save all the tyres you like for Q3, but it generally helps if you're fast enough not to get knocked out beforehand!

[wedge]

He wasnt keen on going out again because he wanted to save new tyres for Q3.
The level of idiocy of some people on this forum is amazing.
Do you understand F1 at all?

Utter nonsense! With 5mins of Q3 left and you see lap times are tumbling the last thing you must be thinking about is saving a set for Q3. No point thinking about Q3 if Q2 looks like a struggle!

Torro Rosso will go for broke so I don't see why Ferrari should be arrogant and stick with guesstimates.

[F1boat]

I understand enough to know that you can save all the tyres you like for Q3, but it generally helps if you're fast enough not to get knocked out beforehand!

Let me ask you something. Why, when this sh*t happened to Massa, everybody were blaming the team and now when it happens to Kimi, somehow he is to blame?

[Dave B]

Let me ask you something. Why, when this sh*t happened to Massa, everybody were blaming the team and now when it happens to Kimi, somehow he is to blame?
When this happened to Massa I did say he should take his share of the blame. This from April 7th:


However much it's tempting to blame Ferrari for poor timing in qualifying or the wrong call on tyres in the race, I can't imagine that Schumacher would have sat there quietly while chaos unfolded around him.

He would have been demanding an extra qualifying run, and telling the team in no uncertain terms which tyres he required. He was an integral part of the decision making process, and maybe it's time that Kimi and Felipe got stuck in more.

[F1boat]

I guess that Kimi is to blame again - should have asked for a more reliable car, like Fred or MS would have done... :(

[CaptainRaiden]

I dont buy it. Kimi is supposed to be the fastest thing out there, yet he was run closely in 2007 by Massa right up until the last few races. Last year, Massa cleaned him up like a bachelor's second hand blow up doll after a weekend session.

I'm sorry, but were you living under a rock or inside a cave in 2007?!? Run closely in 2007? Kimi won 6 races to Massa's 3 in 2007 coming to a new team that Massa already spent 3 years with, and won the championship in his first year.


Kimi has been in top teams for a long time now and doesnt have much to show for it.

Yeah right. 17 wins and 1 WDC is "not much." :rolleyes: I'd rather support a driver confident enough in himself to fight his teammate, rather than a 100 times WDC with 10,000 race wins who cheats the first chance he gets, punts opponents off track, and wants his teammate to be his lapdog.

[jens]

That is bull. Ferrari took a risk, it did not work out. Happens.
This alonso magic is so tiring, what exactly has he done with the Renault this year? Nothing whatsoever.
Where are his 6 tenths? nowhere
The super developer has done nothing, yet the praise keeps coming no matter what he does.


I'm not fond of the "super-developer" myths either, but if you ask what has he done with that R29 this year, then he is ahead of both Ferrari drivers in WDC standings in a slower car (albeit a more reliable one).

[555-04Q2]

I'm sorry, but were you living under a rock or inside a cave in 2007?!? Run closely in 2007? Kimi won 6 races to Massa's 3 in 2007 coming to a new team that Massa already spent 3 years with, and won the championship in his first year.



Yeah right. 17 wins and 1 WDC is "not much." :rolleyes: I'd rather support a driver confident enough in himself to fight his teammate, rather than a 100 times WDC with 10,000 race wins who cheats the first chance he gets, punts opponents off track, and wants his teammate to be his lapdog.

What you need my friend, is a gentle glass of whiskey to take the edge off ;)

[SGWilko]

What you need my friend, is a gentle glass of whiskey to take the edge off ;)

Ooohhh, yes please. I'm sick of that Kool Aid gnats urine!!!! ;)

[N. Jones]

Why is he so badly rated by everyone here?

Alost every thread "rating" drivers here get's Kimi on the same leves as guys like Trulli and Barrichello, if not Kovalainen; very rarely someone puts him on the same level as Massa, Alonso or Hamilton?

I remember last year everyone was saying Massa was going to be very bad without TC, and the likes of Kimi and Lewis will excell. But in a year Kimi has gone down in everyone's books.

Admitedly, the only reason he was world champion was because the incompetence of McLaren, and the glory-whoring stupidity of Hamilton in Shanghai. (And some crazy stroke of fortune in Brazil)

Is it because he is/seems so laid back?

I don't rate him badly. He has just driven in cars that were susceptible to breakdown's. I wouldn't consider his 2007 title to be tainted by any means.

[woody2goody]

I'm sorry, but were you living under a rock or inside a cave in 2007?!? Run closely in 2007? Kimi won 6 races to Massa's 3 in 2007 coming to a new team that Massa already spent 3 years with, and won the championship in his first year.

When Kimi went there Massa had only actually raced for them for one year, where he scored two wins against Schumacher no less. The only thing I remember about Kimi's 06 season was his smashing into a Toro Rosso in Hungary. He was magnificent in 2005 though.

No matter what anyone says, he fluked the championship in many ways. If Hamilton and Alonso weren't always taking points off each other he wouldn't have had a prayer. If it was Alonso and de la Rosa he would have lost by 30 points.

And again we have an internet know-it-all with no real knowledge claiming things he has no idea about.

Help me out here...is it me or yourself you are referring to? You see, from here you look like an internet know-it-all with no real knowledge yourself.

Your 'knowledge' is the square root of feck all, so come up with a better argument as the one you are currently using is as lazy as the driver you are defending.

[DexDexter]

Help me out here...is it me or yourself you are referring to? You see, from here you look like an internet know-it-all with no real knowledge yourself.

Your 'knowledge' is the square root of feck all, so come up with a better argument as the one you are currently using is as lazy as the driver you are defending.

Do you have any facts whatsoever to back up your claim that Kimi is lazy?


I'm not fond of the "super-developer" myths either, but if you ask what has he done with that R29 this year, then he is ahead of both Ferrari drivers in WDC standings in a slower car (albeit a more reliable one).

Piquet nearly matched him in Q2 in Spain and he is the worst driver in F1.

[DexDexter]

I'm not fond of the "super-developer" myths either, but if you ask what has he done with that R29 this year, then he is ahead of both Ferrari drivers in WDC standings in a slower car (albeit a more reliable one).

Piquet nearly matched him in q2 in Spain. And he is the worst driver in f1.

[CaptainRaiden]

What you need my friend, is a gentle glass of whiskey to take the edge off ;)

Had that at the end of Brazilian GP 2007. It never tasted sweeter. :p ;)


When Kimi went there Massa had only actually raced for them for one year, where he scored two wins against Schumacher no less. The only thing I remember about Kimi's 06 season was his smashing into a Toro Rosso in Hungary. He was magnificent in 2005 though.

And you forgot Massa tested for Ferrari in 2003 as well, and drove a Ferrari backed Sauber all his career. In 2006, albeit on some occassions, he outclassed the "great" Schumacher as well. Kimi in his first year, beat Massa in a team in which Massa had already spent two years with. Surely, that's gotta count for something or is the blind hatred completely clouding that?


No matter what anyone says, he fluked the championship in many ways. If Hamilton and Alonso weren't always taking points off each other he wouldn't have had a prayer. If it was Alonso and de la Rosa he would have lost by 30 points.

If this and blah that. That's what you're basing your opinions on? A couple of ifs? IF Timo Glock and Toyota hadn't had a brain fart and were the only car on dry tyres on a wet track, your 'golden boy' Hamilton would be spending his third year without a championship crying every race "I gave it all" in midfield this year. IF Kimi hadn't retired in Spain and Nurburgring in 2007, he would have run the Mclarens much closer.

IF Schumacher's engine hadn't blown in Suzuka 2006, Alonso wouldn't have had the second crown so easy. IF Kimi had a reliable car in 2003 and 2005, you'd be dissing (or at least try to diss) a 3 time WDC right now. IF Mika's Mclaren hadn't blown its Mercedes to pieces in Indy 2000, when Mika was 2 points ahead in the championship, probably things would have been different.

A lot of things would have been hugely different IF only a couple of things would or wouldn't have happened. You can't take a WDC away from a deserving champion basing your opinions only on what "would" have happened.

[jens]

IMO Massa and Räikkönen were over a full year quite evenly matched in 2007. FM was a bit more impressive in the first half of the season and KR in the second half.

[Tazio]

Piquet nearly matched him in Q2 in Spain and he is the worst driver in F1.How many other drivers can you name that have been out qualified by his teamate 22-0 lately?
Give me a freakin' break. Piquet may not be the worst driver in the show.
But Fred is probably the best!
Later!! :burnout:

[DexDexter]

How many other drivers can you name that have been out qualified by his teamate 22-0 lately?
Give me a freakin' break. Piquet may not be the worst driver in the show.
But Fred is probably the best!
Later!! :burnout:

Fred is good, no doubt about it. But, again, remember 2007, a rookie matched him and that resulted in Fred complaining and again complaining. Goes to show you that there is currently no Schumacher in the field.

[EuroTroll]

Goes to show you that there is currently no Schumacher in the field.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? BRING BACK RALF!!! :hmph: :p :

[Tazio]

Fred is good, no doubt about it. But, again, remember 2007, a rookie matched him and that resulted in Fred complaining and again complaining. Goes to show you that there is currently no Schumacher in the field.I didn't say their was :confused: Although he's damn good
I just put into context your reply to Jens' comment (which I happen to agree with.)
Whose doing the complaining now, Fred, or Lewis?
It's time to let 2007 go. You are talking trash!

[DexDexter]

I didn't say their was :confused: Although he's damn good
I just put into context your reply to Jens' comment (which I happen to agree with.)
Whose doing the complaining now, Fred, or Lewis?
It's time to let 2007 go. You are talking trash!

OK, lets leave them in peace.... This is just related to the title of the thread, people actually bash Räikkönen for not complaining, not showing emotion. Räikkönen has a lot of room for improvement as has the team but I have to defend the guy when some people criticize him for being a normal silent Finn. Bash him for not performing but the talk about lazyness and lack of passion is just plain offensive. Ugh, I have spoken :)

[Tazio]

OK, lets leave them in peace.... This is just related to the title of the thread, people actually bash Räikkönen for not complaining, not showing emotion. Räikkönen has a lot of room for improvement as has the team but I have to defend the guy when some people criticize him for being a normal silent Finn. Bash him for not performing but the talk about lazyness and lack of passion is just plain offensive. Ugh, I have spoken :) OK I agree with that! :up: :s mokin: :)

[Garry Walker]

Help me out here...is it me or yourself you are referring to? You see, from here you look like an internet know-it-all with no real knowledge yourself.

Your 'knowledge' is the square root of feck all, so come up with a better argument as the one you are currently using is as lazy as the driver you are defending.

So go ahead and give us proof of his lazyness. I am waiting.

[mstillhere]

Can I tell you guys why Alonso would be better than both Kimi and Massa? Because Fred is a guy who wants to win and is not afraid to scream and yell at anybody so they'll do what he wants them to do. He is the star of the show and if things get done intelligently and properly, then he'll be delivering victory after victory.

Right or wrong that it may be it is still preferable than to rely only on the orders of a team that often, way too often says stupid things bringing the team to a disaster. He has a strong instinct and still is the hungriest driver in terms of wanting to win, together with Hamilton I must say. In a way he is the most "schumaresque" than anybody in the trio. (And Hamilton is not too far either)

Now if I were him I would stay clear from Ferrari unless they really had something REALLY good for next year. Otherwise he might just kill his own career.

[wedge]

So go ahead and give us proof of his lazyness. I am waiting.

I think making an effort on working on single lap pace would've helped immensely last year just as he did in 2007 adapting to the Bridgestone tyres.

[aryan]

When Kimi went there Massa had only actually raced for them for one year...

You mean the Sauber C23 didn't count as a Ferrari? ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

Can I tell you guys why Alonso would be better than both Kimi and Massa? Because Fred is a guy who wants to win and is not afraid to scream and yell at anybody so they'll do what he wants them to do. He is the star of the show and if things get done intelligently and properly, then he'll be delivering victory after victory.

Really? I don't see him prodding the Renault up there with the frontrunners in 2009. In fact, it seems the wunder-developer took 6 tenths off the Renault this year, because at least he managed two wins last season, which I don't see him repeating again this year. Probably you'd want Harry Potter in the car, to magically get it to the front with his wand.

I don't know why in this day and age of formula 1, people still don't get that a driver can't cure cancer unless he has a car that suits him AND is fast. All attributes have to be perfect or near perfect. Even the "great" Schumacher suffered with less-than-perfect, but still the fastest car in 2003, a crappy car in 2005, and couldn't bag the WC with clearly the fastest car for the second half of 2006.


I think making an effort on working on single lap pace would've helped immensely last year just as he did in 2007 adapting to the Bridgestone tyres.

Why do you think he didn't do that in 2008? Because he'd already won the championship and didn't wanna win one more? I don't think so. I still think he tried pretty damn hard to race with a car which clearly didn't suit Kimi's driving style, and hence the mistakes all year round, and particularly in Singapore and Spa. What you're calling lack of motivation could merely be him struggling to adapt to the characteristics of the F2008. Maybe just maybe. All my humble opinions.

In the end, we're all really speculating here, and most of the people speaking utter nonsense about stuff they don't have any idea about, with such confidence that it seems they spent their lives in the team's garage. Nobody knows "Squat" about what happened at Ferrari in 2008, but Ferrari themselves and their two drivers.

[555-04Q2]

Had that at the end of Brazilian GP 2007. It never tasted sweeter. :p ;)

So did I. In 94, 95, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04 :p :

[Knock-on]

Can I tell you guys why Alonso would be better than both Kimi and Massa? Because Fred is a guy who wants to win and is not afraid to scream and yell at anybody so they'll do what he wants them to do. He is the star of the show and if things get done intelligently and properly, then he'll be delivering victory after victory.

Right or wrong that it may be it is still preferable than to rely only on the orders of a team that often, way too often says stupid things bringing the team to a disaster. He has a strong instinct and still is the hungriest driver in terms of wanting to win, together with Hamilton I must say. In a way he is the most "schumaresque" than anybody in the trio. (And Hamilton is not too far either)

Now if I were him I would stay clear from Ferrari unless they really had something REALLY good for next year. Otherwise he might just kill his own career.

Can't really disagree with that. Alonso and Hamilton are carved from the same stone and are probably the best drivers in F1 for 20 years. Personally, I think that they are both more gifted than Schumacher by the width of a knats dick but that's just my opinion.

I see Alonso going to Ferrari and moulding the team around him as Schumacher did. I hope Hamilton does the same at McLaren and we have a decade of mouthwatering battles with Vettel in the mix as well.

[555-04Q2]

Personally, I think that they are both more gifted than Schumacher by the width of a knats dick but that's just my opinion.

Good to know that even in your old age, you havent lost your sense of humour :p :

[wedge]

Why do you think he didn't do that in 2008? Because he'd already won the championship and didn't wanna win one more? I don't think so. I still think he tried pretty damn hard to race with a car which clearly didn't suit Kimi's driving style, and hence the mistakes all year round, and particularly in Singapore and Spa. What you're calling lack of motivation could merely be him struggling to adapt to the characteristics of the F2008. Maybe just maybe. All my humble opinions.

Massa beat Kimi in qualy trim but Kimi was quick enough in races. Kimi could never get heat into the tyres for single lap run. What was Kimi doing?

[555-04Q2]

Massa beat Kimi in qualy trim but Kimi was quick enough in races. Kimi could never get heat into the tyres for single lap run. What was Kimi doing?

Trying to find an ice cream shop at the side of the track...easier to spot one if you go slower ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

So did I. In 94, 95, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04 :p :

Wow, that's a lot of whiskey. Why were you so sad? :p


Massa beat Kimi in qualy trim but Kimi was quick enough in races. Kimi could never get heat into the tyres for single lap run. What was Kimi doing?

Well, he did it in 2007 without much problem. Again, how do you know for sure that was the case in 2008? Are you absolutely a 100% certain? Could it be a couple of other things regarding the F2008's aero characteristics which makes it naturally oversteering as well? I'm sure that if the problem was as miniscule as getting heat into tyres, it would've been rectified by even a karting level driver, let alone Kimi. It's not such a "huge" deal.


Trying to find an ice cream shop at the side of the track...easier to spot one if you go slower ;)

Well, at least Kimi would buy it, instead of cheating the seller into getting a freebie like a certain someone. ;)

[555-04Q2]

Well, at least Kimi would buy it, instead of cheating the seller into getting a freebie like a certain someone. ;)

I distinctly saw Kimi at the Malaysian GP (on live TV) take a can of coke out the refrigerator without paying ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

I distinctly saw Kimi at the Malaysian GP (on live TV) take a can of coke out the refrigerator without paying ;)

From Ferrari's own garage, and I'm guessing own refrigerator, not while roaming around on a Sunday afternoon drive in a German village. ;)

[555-04Q2]

From Ferrari's own garage, and I'm guessing own refrigerator, not while roaming around on a Sunday afternoon drive in a German village. ;)

But it was Massa's private refrigerator, if you look at the bottom left hand corner is says (designated to Felipe Massa, by order, Management) :p :

[CaptainRaiden]

But it was Massa's private refrigerator, if you look at the bottom left hand corner is says (designated to Felipe Massa, by order, Management) :p :

Yeah, but you forgot to read below that. It said, "Leased to Felipe Massa by Kimi Raikkonen, by order, Iceman Refrigerating Co." So, the owner is Kimi, and he could've pee'ed in that refrigerator if he wanted to. ;) :p

[Bagwan]

But it was Massa's private refrigerator, if you look at the bottom left hand corner is says (designated to Felipe Massa, by order, Management) :p :

Are team lunch orders allowed ?

[555-04Q2]

Iceman Refrigerating Co.

Pretty sharp for a Kimi supporter ;) I give in :p :

[555-04Q2]

Are team lunch orders allowed ?

Yes. Rule 134.B.34(a).D5647, paragraph 76456 clearly states:

..."lunch orders are allowed between 11:30 and 13:45. Any transgretion of this rule will be met with with a 2 race suspension and a fine of US$ 10,000."

Thanks for dining with us, yours in hospitality, Bernie :p :

[CaptainRaiden]

Pretty sharp for a Kimi supporter ;) I give in :p :

Kimi can be a genius IF he wants to. Anyway, good while it lasted. :p

[Bagwan]

Yes. Rule 134.B.34(a).D5647, paragraph 76456 clearly states:

..."lunch orders are allowed between 11:30 and 13:45. Any transgretion of this rule will be met with with a 2 race suspension and a fine of US$ 10,000."

Thanks for dining with us, yours in hospitality, Bernie :p :

Yes , but it's not so clear since the inquiry into the ice cream incident earlier this year , when it was shown to have the loophole(no "AM" or "PM") in the rule .
As late night snacks are seen to be unhealthy , safety issues caused the times to be dropped from the first session of the inquiry .
The rule was subsequently re-written to make it a "2 course meal and a tip of US$ 10.00 ." This , of course , adds weight to the driver , and costs valuable time to eat . And getting the tip out of a tight driver's suit is no easy task , either , costing more time .

The Technical Working Group is currently working on the aero solution for the food tray and cup holder for the "to go" slurpee , as the penalty will now be enforced on the grid .
Severity of infraction will now be measured in the size of the slurpee , but concerns from FOTA over whether the double decker slurpee holder is legal will surely be reason for protest in the next few really hot races .

[555-04Q2]

Kimi can be a genius IF he wants to. Anyway, good while it lasted. :p

:up:

[Tazio]

Kimi will win a race or two this season, and his credibility will be magically affirmed :s mokin:

[555-04Q2]

Kimi will win a race or two this season, and his credibility will be magically affirmed :s mokin:

Sadly, I dont see Kimi or Massa winning a race this season :(

[F1boat]

Sadly, I dont see Kimi or Massa winning a race this season :(

Monza :)

[555-04Q2]

Monza :)

It would be nice :)

[F1boat]

It would be nice :)

and maybe Massa in Turkey. He is magic there, you know :)