Last victory for the H?

[Ranger]

When was the last GP victory for an H-pattern gearbox? I'm guessing sometime between 1990-93 but I don't know the specifics.

[Sonic]

I believe it may be the 1992 spa GP with the Benetton B192. Martin drove it a few times on ITV F1 for various segments and it had a H box. http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/BENETTON-4113.jpg

[Mark]

I believe the last cars ever to race with an H-pattern were the Forti's, circa 1995?

[Sonic]

I respect pedro diniz just a wee bit more knowing that.

[Rodriguez 917]

Yeah that's right. Spa 1992 was the last win, Forti in 1995 was the last to use it

[philipbain]

Yeah that's right. Spa 1992 was the last win, Forti in 1995 was the last to use it

Agreed, Benetton were quite late developing the electronic systems on thier cars, they didn't have the full traction control / active suspension / semi auto until a few races into '93, though Benetton also developed a unique passive 4 wheel steering system that didn't actually make the car any quicker but Schumacher still ran it as he preferred the feel of the car with it.

[Rodriguez 917]

Yeah the Benneton in 1992 was a very different animal to what they had at the end of 1993. I think the 93 Benneton rivalled the Williams that year as one of the most active cars. Schumi always liked the car 'on the nose'. Good turn in and a nervous rear, the 4 wheeled steering obviously gave him that

You need to look further back.

Sequential boxes were de-riguer for a long time pre semi-automatic.

[AndyL]

Looking at that picture Sonic posted again, it does look like a shifter for a sequential box.

[Sonic]

Very difficult to say from the pic. It looks pretty much the same as the shift in any formula ford (all h boxes). can anyone shed some more light?

[Sonic]

I've found a 1991 Benetton for sale in '91 spec which according to the spec sheet has a H box. So I'm sticking to my original suggestion of spa '92.

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales

[I am evil Homer]

92 looks sequential...there's no "gate" for the H pattern just a single lever - how would you move from gear to gear with a lever that only goes two directions? So i'd think 91 is more likely

[blito]

a racing car doesnt actually need a gate for its h pattern shift. the gears are there in exactly the place youd expect to find them so theres no need for a gate - that only makes the shift width wider than is necesary for a pro racer.

[AndyL]

I was thinking it looked sequential because the lever has a pivot that looks like it only goes backwards and forwards... but looking at some pictures of some older cars like the '91 Benetton and some 80's cars, they look similar. Maybe the whole tube that the lever is mounted on rotates for the side-to-side movement across the "H-gate"?

[schmenke]

Cripes, I can't imagine shifting gawd-knows-how-many times per lap without a gate :s hock:

[shazbot]

Well, it was an 'H' here at Monza-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k4Y-uangHM

[AndyL]

Well, it was an 'H' here at Monza-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k4Y-uangHM

How can you tell? I only watched the first 3 minutes but I can't see the gearshift clearly in the video. Do they mention it on the voice-over?

[shazbot]

They don't mention it,but H pattern and sequential shifts sound different. You can hear Schumacher shifting down a couple of gears (4th straight to 2nd for example) and knocking it into neutral entering the pits. When you've driven both types you get to know and feel the difference even from footage like this.

[AndyL]

Thanks I see it now, only one downshift going in to most of the corners. I am familiar with both types but the H pattern is a distant memory :)

[LeonBrooke]

I can imagine that they might fit different gearchange mechanisms to the car for different races - an H-pattern at Monza for shifting down several gears at once, then a sequential at Spa or Monaco for ease of use and more time with hands on the wheel.

[philipbain]

F1 stick shifters were always H pattern shifters, they never had the Champ Car style sequential stick shifters, they went straight to semi-auto paddle shift, first introduced in 1989 by Ferrari. The closest any team came to a semi auto system before the era of paddle shifters was Lotus that experimented with a button on top of the gear stick that replaced the clutch pedal and operated and electro-magnetic clutch, I think the system proved too complex and in the end offered little advantage for it's complexity, but a lovely bit of forward thinking to ensure the driver would only have to race with 2 pedals, enabling left foot braking which has been the standard in F1 for years now in F1.

[D-Type]

Going a bit OT, wasn't there a car with four pedals? It had two brake pedals to allow both left and right foot braking.

[LeonBrooke]

Wasn't that a mid-90s McLaren?

[shazbot]

[quote="philipbain"]F1 stick shifters were always H pattern shifters, they never had the Champ Car style sequential stick shifters, they went straight to semi-auto paddle shift, first introduced in 1989 by Ferrari.quote]

I'm being pedantic, but Lotus had a sequential shift in F1 back in the late 50's I think. Known as the 'queer box' it was not the most reliable as the driver was never really sure what gear he would get.

[philipbain]

Going a bit OT, wasn't there a car with four pedals? It had two brake pedals to allow both left and right foot braking.

McLaren, 1997 into early 1998 when the system was banned because Ferrari couldnt get to grips with it! It actually had 3 pedals (the clutch was mounted as a paddle behind the wheel as it is today) and the 3rd pedal was a small pedal that could be operated in a "heel and toe" fashion with the main brake. What this pedal did was apply a higher braking force to the rear inside wheel for whichever way the steering wheel was pointing, so if the wheel was turned to the left the left rear brake would get the extra braking force. The system was completely ingenious and i'm sure gave a speed advantage, though even when McLaren were forced to remove it their cars were still the class of the field in '98, and as a bonus those cars (the 98, 99 & 2000 McLarens that is) looked great too!

[LeonBrooke]

That's really clever - pity they banned it. It would've been great to see it on all cars and see how it affected the racing.