So an oval parade is better than a street parade?

[MDS]

If you're honest there wasn't a lot of passing at Kansas today, and the only real excitement after the last pit stop was Graham coming up through the back half of the top 10. I really think the kid is coming on and NHL is getting closer and closer to top form, as a fan of that franchise I'm really excited to see what happens next month.

Honestly, I thought St. Pete and Long Beach were better races. I don't get where all the street race haters get off saying that ovals are superior because that, from where I sat, was a poorly-attended, uncompetitive race where there were maybe a handful of passes for position in the top 5.

[NickFalzone]

For one thing, I could care less about how many were in the stands. It was a very windy, rainy day, and I would not have expected better or worse at Kansas. As far as the racing, yes, I found it more exciting than LB. A couple more ovals and I'll be looking forward to the road courses. But I certainly saw a lot more racing action today than in last week's race. There was a pass happening in the field almost every lap of this race. LB consisted of a parade and some crashes. Zzzzzzzz...

[garyshell]

There was a pass happening in the field almost every lap of this race. LB consisted of a parade and some crashes. Zzzzzzzz...

And I loved watching all three race so far this year!

Gary

[TURN3]

We need a new formula NOW, not 2012 or whatever. The sooner the better so we can get back to watching exciting racing. Indy will be good, NHL will be in the hunt with the big 2.25 and I think KVRT has an aero package from the looks of Moraes.

[MDS]

For one thing, I could care less about how many were in the stands. It was a very windy, rainy day, and I would not have expected better or worse at Kansas. As far as the racing, yes, I found it more exciting than LB. A couple more ovals and I'll be looking forward to the road courses. But I certainly saw a lot more racing action today than in last week's race. There was a pass happening in the field almost every lap of this race. LB consisted of a parade and some crashes. Zzzzzzzz...

So I guess you're not being honest about it.... The was one pass for the lead on the track all day, one.

I think you might have gotten Kansas confused with Talladega. Speaking of Talladega I think we clearly saw when you force NASCAR fans to buy tickets to an IRL race they would rather stay at home and watch a race on television then attend a race they already have tickets to. Kansas, and most cookie-cut ovals, are a drag on the schedule and need to be tossed for better venues.

[The instant classic]

Kansas was the same last year too not alot of passing,
it reminds me of last year, wait till C-LAND for the only good race of the year, ever since 2008 i have been losing my interest in the IRL
every race just seems to be a broken record

[underpowered]

And I loved watching all three race so far this year!

Gary

Gary, I dont agree with you most of the time.....but this time I agree 100%

There has been so much action and interesting surprises. Qualifying was great and I really enjoyed all the passing.

I love it!

[jarrambide]

MDS, I don´t like ovals and I don´t like street races, but I do know (as anyone who has watch a couple of races) that an oval race will give you a greater chance of having passes, a street race with the current cars of any current series will not give you a lot of passes, not even a lot of attempts, there is nothing you can do to change that, an oval, on the other hand, will give you the most chances for passing (personally those passes are not as exciting as course or street passing, but that is just me, to each its own), if we didn´t have lots of passes, it wasn´t because of the oval, it was the series, but unlike the street race you can do a lot of changes to change the number of passes in an oval.

[downtowndeco]

Ditto, I'm on board with you guys. They all had something to offer.


Gary, I dont agree with you most of the time.....but this time I agree 100%

There has been so much action and interesting surprises. Qualifying was great and I really enjoyed all the passing.

I love it!

[downtowndeco]

Just so we understand, if there was a lot of passing today would you be calling it "contrived" & "meaningless"?

What is "just the right amount" of passes per race? One? Ten? Four?




If you're honest there wasn't a lot of passing at Kansas today, and the only real excitement after the last pit stop was Graham coming up through the back half of the top 10. I really think the kid is coming on and NHL is getting closer and closer to top form, as a fan of that franchise I'm really excited to see what happens next month.

Honestly, I thought St. Pete and Long Beach were better races. I don't get where all the street race haters get off saying that ovals are superior because that, from where I sat, was a poorly-attended, uncompetitive race where there were maybe a handful of passes for position in the top 5.

[MDS]

Just so we understand, if there was a lot of passing today would you be calling it "contrived" & "meaningless"?

What is "just the right amount" of passes per race? One? Ten? Four?

There was a lot of passing at Long Beach too, only there people actually paid full price for their seats, and the stands were you know, not 70 percent empty.

[Wilf]

So I guess you're not being honest about it.... The was one pass for the lead on the track all day, one.

I think you might have gotten Kansas confused with Talladega. Speaking of Talladega I think we clearly saw when you force NASCAR fans to buy tickets to an IRL race they would rather stay at home and watch a race on television then attend a race they already have tickets to. Kansas, and most cookie-cut ovals, are a drag on the schedule and need to be tossed for better venues.


There's no doubt those Kansas folks are NASCAR fans. Did you see how well they turned out for the truck race?

[harvick#1]

There's no doubt those Kansas folks are NASCAR fans. Did you see how well they turned out for the truck race?

they all stayed home to watch the Demo Derby 500 at Talladega, the fans even got a free piece of Carl edwards car and fence :mark:

but the IRL needs a new car, fast, something to improve the racing, don't care about the passing, but something to try and improve the luster the series used to have

[underpowered]

but the IRL needs a new car, fast, something to improve the racing, don't care about the passing, but something to try and improve the luster the series used to have

While I agree we need a new car, I am also happy that teams have been able save money by running this car longer. It would have crippled some teams to start again with a whole new package. The last thing we need right now is anything that will increase costs for teams.

I am guessing there is 50+ IRL chassis out there at the moment. That must make it easier to get a package to run Indy.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

If you're honest there wasn't a lot of passing at Kansas today, and the only real excitement after the last pit stop was Graham coming up through the back half of the top 10. I really think the kid is coming on and NHL is getting closer and closer to top form, as a fan of that franchise I'm really excited to see what happens next month.

Honestly, I thought St. Pete and Long Beach were better races. I don't get where all the street race haters get off saying that ovals are superior because that, from where I sat, was a poorly-attended, uncompetitive race where there were maybe a handful of passes for position in the top 5.

Oh fantastic... another ovals vs road courses thread pi**ing match.

I don't watch races for passing. I watch races to see cars go fast. I watch races to see teams work well together. I watch races to cheer for my favorite drivers and root against those drivers I don't like. I watch races for the spectacle. Different things entertain different people. I saw a lot of wheel to wheel racing today. Some of those situations resulted in passing some did not. It was all hugely entertaining to me.

I enjoy ovals. I enjoy road courses. Passing is great but it doesn't make or break a race to me.

Apparently, passing is all racing is to some folks.

I watch racing for the crashes . (JUST KIDDING!!!!)

[DanicaFan]

I would rather watch an oval race over a road/street course anyday.

[jimispeed]

I like a nice airport under the lights! Cleveland should be on the schedule to replace one of these ovals that aren't quite worthy. Some of the ovals are undeniable in their difficulties and challenges to the teams/drivers. That's exciting, and worth watching!

Others are just pretty much like Nascar........watch the first twenty laps, go run some errands and be back in time for the last twenty laps.

[seppefan]

If you're honest there wasn't a lot of passing at Kansas today, and the only real excitement after the last pit stop was Graham coming up through the back half of the top 10. I really think the kid is coming on and NHL is getting closer and closer to top form, as a fan of that franchise I'm really excited to see what happens next month.

Honestly, I thought St. Pete and Long Beach were better races. I don't get where all the street race haters get off saying that ovals are superior because that, from where I sat, was a poorly-attended, uncompetitive race where there were maybe a handful of passes for position in the top 5.

I agree, rather boring race but some are good and some are not. I love the series because of its diversity. That is one of its main strenghs and really does test the drivers skills. I love Chicagoland and I love Cleveland ( bring it back please ) . Also Indy and Long Beach. Just get rid of good old Sears Point. Why? Never much overtaking and that is what I like to see.

[vintage]

I think that the tornadoes the night before, and the severe weather warnings on race day, may have had something to do with the poor attendance.

[dataman1]

And I loved watching all three race so far this year!

Gary

I agree with Gary. I think it is because of the great TV work by Versus plus the expert commentary from the booth (Jack is still Jack and he is not in the booth). Yeh, they made some mistakes but overall doing a fantastic job.

[chuck34]

There are boring oval races, and there are boring street races, and there are boring road course races. It varies from year to year and track to track. I think that the "potential" for a boring race is higher on a street course than an oval, but boring races happen all over. That being said, there were quite a few passes back in the field. I would say more than at LB, but I'm not sure about that.

[bblocker68]

The race wasn't that bad, was it? It kept me interested, but I really wished the black #12 car was out there.

As for putting Cleveland on the schedule, I agree. But, you have to replace a street/road course with it to be fair.

[nigelred5]

Just a different parade ;)

[seamusoldfield]

Can't believe I'm saying this - there is now more passing in F1 than there is in IndyCar. Wow. How did that happen?

[bzcam]

Can't believe I'm saying this - there is now more passing in F1 than there is in IndyCar. Wow. How did that happen?

Don't pull the trigger on that comment too fast. Did you see the F1 GP of Bahrain? After the first 5 laps it started to look like F1 of old - a parade of expensive cars on different fuel strategies. Maybe it was the heat, but it was as close to boring as racing gets these days. The good news is that Ferrari and McLaren are not dominating - yet.

BZ

[jarrambide]

Don't pull the trigger on that comment too fast. Did you see the F1 GP of Bahrain? After the first 5 laps it started to look like F1 of old - a parade of expensive cars on different fuel strategies. Maybe it was the heat, but it was as close to boring as racing gets these days. The good news is that Ferrari and McLaren are not dominating - yet.

BZ


I wish IC races so far had as many passes as yesterday, and yesterday was the boring one, even after the first laps there was lots of action if you compare the race to the last 4 years and not to the first 3 races of this season.

My point is that so far, the boring race of this year was as entertaining as the best races of last year, proving that you can do something to improve racing, I´m sure IndyCar is trying to do something for next year, you don´t need to change the cars, we don´t have to wait, they can surely do something rule wise.

[TURN3]

I wish IC races so far had as many passes as yesterday, and yesterday was the boring one, even after the first laps there was lots of action if you compare the race to the last 4 years and not to the first 3 races of this season.

My point is that so far, the boring race of this year was as entertaining as the best races of last year, proving that you can do something to improve racing, I´m sure IndyCar is trying to do something for next year, you don´t need to change the cars, we don´t have to wait, they can surely do something rule wise.

Bring back the Hanford Device, increase hp, and require Firestone to make hard compound tires so driver skill comes into play but also reduces marbles. Any of these would be a huge improvement but all 3 would be awesome until we get a new formula.

[F1fanru]

A new car would be nice. That is not the problem though. IMO a more powerfull engine would help a lot. I'd really like to see the ovals back to where cars actually have to brake for the corners. This flat out all the way around isn't real racing. Nor is it a test of driver skill, other than drafting of course. I also understand the economics of having an engine that doesn't blow up occasionally. There must be a happy medium there somewhere.

$1M or $58,823 per race for engines is crazy, sooner they kick them to the curb the better. ED PINK will build you a crazy turbo 4 cyl. for $30K, if they adopt the rumored turbo 4 cyl. engine costs should be less than half what they are now. Unfortunately there isn't enough teams to bring in new equipment now. Some teams are operating with ride buyers, others on a shoe string budget, new equipment could see the demise of a couple teams which the ICS can't afford to loose. Will the economics be better in 2012 who knows. Paying $60K per race for engines is crazy no wonder the ICS is having a hard time attracting new teams.

[underpowered]

$1M or $58,823 per race for engines is crazy, sooner they kick them to the curb the better. ED PINK will build you a crazy turbo 4 cyl. for $30K, if they adopt the rumored turbo 4 cyl. engine costs should be less than half what they are now. Unfortunately there isn't enough teams to bring in new equipment now. Some teams are operating with ride buyers, others on a shoe string budget, new equipment could see the demise of a couple teams which the ICS can't afford to loose. Will the economics be better in 2012 who knows. Paying $60K per race for engines is crazy no wonder the ICS is having a hard time attracting new teams.

Wow $1M a year for engines. McLaren got a $100M fine and paid it. I guess it shows the difference between European and the US wealth.

I bet Bernie dreams of cheap $1M engines. :-)

[speeddurango]

A Milka Duno fan starting thread, is this a cat fight?

[Hoop-98]

Six figures to lease a Cup engine for a race. I would guess NASCAR engine budgets for the field are in the 300 Million range.

rh